CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the financial considerations regarding team ownership and the implications for the upcoming season.
Takeaways:
Cavaliers Assistant Coach DeMarre Carroll Joins Jordan Ott in Phoenix: DeMarre Carroll has left the Cleveland Cavaliers to join former Cavs assistant Jordan Ott’s staff with the Phoenix Suns. Carroll is expected to take on a larger role in Phoenix.
Four Assistant Coaches Have Left the Cavaliers After Just One Season: The Cavaliers have lost four coaches from Kenny Atkinson’s staff after just one season, representing a significant turnover.
Jordan Ott’s Departure May Impact Evan Mobley’s Development: Jordan Ott was specifically tasked with overseeing Evan Mobley’s development. The Cavaliers now face the challenge of finding someone who can connect with Mobley in the same way.
Cavaliers Likely to Promote from Within to Fill Coaching Vacancies: The Cavaliers are currently looking to promote from within to fill the coaching vacancies rather than bringing in outside candidates for primary roles.
Johnnie Bryant Remains a Candidate for the New York Knicks Head Coaching Position: Cavaliers assistant coach Johnnie Bryant is still potentially in the running for the New York Knicks head coaching position.
Koby Altman and Front Office Willing to Make Difficult Roster Decisions: Fedor argues the team has shown willingness to make difficult decisions when necessary.
Cavaliers Facing Second Apron Luxury Tax Considerations: The Cavaliers are evaluating whether to operate as a second apron team, which would significantly limit their roster flexibility.
Isaac Okoro’s Trade Market Appears Limited: The Cavaliers are having difficulty finding teams interested in trading for Isaac Okoro without additional assets attached.
Cavaliers Must Navigate Complex CBA Rules Before June 30: Any moves the Cavaliers make before June 30th must comply with their projected second apron status for the new league year.
Evan Mobley Unlikely to Get Signature Shoe Soon Despite Rising Profile: Despite becoming an All-Star, Evan Mobley faces significant hurdles to getting his own signature shoe.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And today, you know him, you love him. The man, the myth, the legend. Chris Fedor is joining me for another rendition of of the hey Chris episode courtesy of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast where we delve into questions that are given to us from our subscribers to Subtext, a platform that allows you to have your voice heard and get at your fingertips. Information, insight on the Cleveland Cavaliers and the NBA as a whole. So today we have news as of late, of course, Chris Fedor up late, poor usual on social media, on subtext, sending over some insights. And today it was a report on another coach leaving the Cleveland Cavaliers for another position, this time teaming up with a coach that had already left. Jordan Otts took away DeMarre Carroll with him to Phoenix. And as Chris reported, it is not the only coach that is in contention to go with Jornot. But Chris, I want you to go into depth on this situation. Why it made sense for demari Carroll to join Jornot even though he had a underlying connection with Kenny Atkinson dating back to Atlanta. But talk me through this one and why it makes sense.
Chris Fedor: Well, that same relationship extends to Jordan Ott too. When it comes to DeMarres, he’s been with Jordan Ott a number of different stops. He was with him in Atlanta, Brooklyn, Los Angeles, now here in Cleveland. So I think it’s an opportunity for demari Carroll to get a bigger role in Phoenix, to continue to take a step forward as a coach. Maybe he goes from the back of the bunch bench to the front of the bench, or maybe he has a bigger voice in Phoenix with, with Jordan Ott than what was available to him here in Cleveland. So, you know, I, I don’t think this is a surprise necessarily. It’s certainly not a surprise to the Cavs ever since Jordan Ott won the Phoenix job and, and he beat out Johnnie Bryant, you know, the organization was anticipating Jordan taking somebody or multiple people from Kenny’s coaching staff and they were just kind of waiting to see who it was going to be and, and how they were going to navigate that. And look, I think you continue to have to keep an eye on Johnnie Bryant and whether he’s going to be in the running for the New York Knicks job. And if he does get the Knicks job, I think it’s a big if. It seems like they’re more inclined to look for a ready made coach, somebody with head coaching experience. Look at all the different coaches around the NBA that they’ve tried to get an interview with. And then think about the reporting recently about Mike Brown and Michael Malone. It does seem like New York’s looking for more of a coach that’s got head coach experience. And that’s not Johnnie to this point. But if they continue to strike out, they’re going to have to go to plan B, plan C, plan D, whatever the case may be. So you still have to keep your eye on Johnnie and the possibility of him leaving Cleveland. And if he leaves Cleveland, if he gets the New York job, he would take some people from the staff as well. Because you know this, Ethan. A lot of times in the NBA, it’s about who you know. A lot of times in the NBA, it’s about relationships. And part of the beauty of Kenny Atkinson coming here to Cleveland is that he had previous relationships with a bunch of these guys. DeMarre Carroll, Jordan Ott, and. And that’s part of the reason why they’re all together, or they were all together this past year on this staff. But, but, but Jordan odd has those same relationships that Kenny did with those same people. And it just remains to be seen how many guys from the Cavs Jordan’s gonna bring with him to Phoenix. But this is what happens when you win 64 games, right? This is what happens when you’re the number one team in the Eastern Conference. This is what happens when you’re the number one offense in the NBA. Smart organizations want a piece of that somehow, some way, whether it’s players, whether it’s head coaches, whether it’s assistant coaches, whether it’s player development coaches. This is what happens when you have success. And the Kenny Atkinson coaching tree, it continues to grow across the NBA. And whether it’s this off season or next off season, the more success the Cavs are going to have, the more people are going to pluck fruit from that tree.
Ethan Sands: Feels like just year one. And he’s already starting to plant roots across the NBA. Chris even getting some ncaa right. As we know, Brian Tabaldi is now in Providence in Rhode island, an assistant coach with the men’s basketball team. This is one of four coaches now that have left the Cleveland Cavalier staff just from year one of Kenny Atkinson’s reign. And obviously one of them is also including Chris Darnell, who was a Cleveland Charge coach, but also helped out with players like Craig Porter Jr. Jaylon Tyson, obviously the two way guys, and Amani Bates, Luke Travers and Naquan Tomlin. So he still was a pivotal piece in their growth as well, and he’s had his hand on player development of guys like Sam Merrill, Dean Wade and guys like that as well. So I think you, you can’t sneeze at his, his importance. So one of the questions from our subtexters coming from Billy in Brooklyn says, how much are the Cavs going to miss these four assistants? I think it’s hard for fans to gauge the importance of assistant coaches. The one that we all know is the most important for the growth of one of these stars of the future. The stars of now actually is Evan Mobley. And Jordan Knott had a large hand in his development, his growth over the last year. Obviously Evan Mobley’s private coach, who he’s already working with this summer in LA has had a handle.
Chris Fedor: Yep.
Ethan Sands: But during the season and in the times where his personal trainer can’t get to him and all these things, Jordan Ott was the main guy helping out in those roles. How important have these four coaches been? And obviously there are some guys that, that don’t have as much of a standing in the NBA yet. They’re guys that were back of the bench. But for this team, for a team that was so connected, so chemistry oriented, how important is losing these four coaches and how even more important is it for Kenny Atkinson in this Cavs organization to replace them with not just good coaches, but good people as well?
Chris Fedor: But they’re good coaches. That’s the thing, right? If they weren’t, Phoenix wouldn’t try and hire them. Demari Carroll is looked at across the NBA as somebody who continues to take the right steps to elevate his profile, to get more notoriety further removed from his playing career. And he’s been an assistant, like I said with the Lakers, he’s been an assistant here in Cleveland. Now he’s going to get a bigger opportunity in Phoenix. It’s going to allow him to get closer and closer to his ultimate coaching goal, whatever that may be. So if, if these weren’t well respected coaches, if these weren’t good coaches, they wouldn’t be getting these opportunities. If Johnnie Bryant was somebody who is looked at as just, you know, his success is only based on and what Donovan Mitchell has done throughout his career, then he wouldn’t have become Tom Thibodeau’s right hand man in New York. He wouldn’t have become Kenny Atkinson’s lead assistant here in Cleveland. So these are good coaches and Kenny assembled a really, really good staff. Part of the reason why you win Coach of the Year is because of what you do. But the other part of it is the guys that you surround yourself with and how much trust you put in them and how much you’re willing to delegate to them, how much responsibility you’re willing to give to them. And obviously DeMarre is going to be a loss because he provided a player perspective for Kenny on the bench. Jordan Ott has a different perspective. Johnnie Bryan has a different perspective. Mari was the former player who could relate well to players that could pass along certain things to Kenny. From a player perspective, this is what a player is thinking. This is what we should do when it comes to a lineup based on how a player is feeling or the, the, the relationship between one player and another player and the combinations and all those different things. So that is something that the Cavs are going to have to look at replacing. And then Jordan I, we’ve talked about it so many times on this podcast. Phoenix mentioned it. Phoenix brought it up as part of the reason why they hired him. When all these teams make these hires and they do these press releases and they have quotes from the decision makers in the organization, one of the things that they pointed out is his work specifically with Evan Mobley that that raised his profile and rightfully so. Evan became a first time all star. He became a second team all NBA player and Jordan was part of that. He oversaw his development. Everywhere Evan went, when it came to before a game, there was Jordan sitting right next to him, either watching film, talking through things or working out on the floor when we were allowed in the practice facility and it was after shoot around or it was after practice or it was before shoot around, Jordan and Evan working hand in hand. And I think it speaks volumes to the kind of coach that Jordan is, that Evan is the most important person in this organization. Nobody has made that a secret. And when you task a specific coach with overseeing his development, that speaks to the trust that you have in the coach and that speaks to the belief that you have in the coach. And the Cavs, they had their choice. They had a bunch of different coaches that have player development backgrounds, but they said, Jordan, it’s you. We want you to oversee the development of Evan Mobley. And that tells you what they thought of Jordan and they tell, that tells you just, just how well respected he is from a player development perspective. And it doesn’t mean that they can’t find somebody with that same kind of background. It doesn’t mean that they can’t find somebody who’s going to be able to connect with Evan the same kind of way and maybe see some things in the development of Evan that. That even Jordan didn’t get to tap into because he only had Evan for one year. It doesn’t mean that Evan’s going to significantly regress. I don’t think he’s going to allow that to happen. But you worry about those kinds of things, because if you find something that works and if you find a formula that works and all of a sudden you change that formula, it adds a variable of uncertainty to it.
Ethan Sands: And I think there’s so much different things that coaches look for and something that we’ve talked about a lot when it comes to Kenny Atkinson’s staff this past year about the people and the coaches that they are and how they almost all had a background in player development. Chris, I don’t want to throw you under the bus, but you are the man with all the information. Do you know of any whispers of coaches that Kenny and the organization could be looking at to fill these roles?
Chris Fedor: As of the other day, when I was having a lot of conversations about this and the direction that the Cavs could go, the. The sense that I got feedback that I was getting from people that I trust is that the Cavs were looking at elevating from within, promoting from within, that they believe in the coaching staff that they built. They believe that it extends beyond just the front of the bench. Guys that were here this past year, and they were looking at the possibility of promoting from within. Now that. That doesn’t take everybody out of the equation. And these things are very, very fluid, and somebody could become available or more conversations could be happening with Kenny and some of his coaches and his Rolodex, and he gets a better sense that one of them is willing to leave their destination because there’s a bigger opportunity, there’s a bigger opening here in Cleveland. But as of the other day, the Cavs were looking mostly at promoting from within. And if they were going to bring somebody outside the organization, it was more going to be in a secondary role. But I think, like, look, I mean, Kenny. Kenny’s coaching tree extends. If you look at some of the guys that he coached alongside when he was an assistant in Atlanta. Um, if you look at some of the guys that he coached alongside when he was a head coach in Brooklyn, some of the relationships that he was. He was able to build during the one year with the Clippers and the couple years that he was in Golden State, that’s where you would start in terms of who would make sense to bring a board from. From outside the organization.
Ethan Sands: I think that’s all good. Points and it kind of is indicative of how, how this Cavs organization has run itself over the years. And talking more about the players in this sense, like, hey, next man up, right? Like, if you feel like you deserve an opportunity, we’ll give you a shot. If you pass the test, you get to stay. If not, you’ll be as quickly removed as you were brought up. So I think it’s important to keep an eye on that. And obviously I also know Chris, at you hit our subtexters with that as well about the potential for the Cavs to go internal growth as Koby Altman has continuously called it. But speaking of Koby Altman and speaking of different moves that the Cavs could, should or might have to make this off season, one of our subtexters asked a very direct question, question about the roster as it is created currently. And this is from Caleb and he didn’t say where he was from or whatever. But Caleb, I hope you’re listening. And he asked, do you think that Koby Altman has become too attached to the roster to accept where changes are needed? We keep talking about cohesion with the core leading to championships, but every championship team of late has been aggressive in taking risks and improving around the stars. We took two years to make a trade. Boston did not keep the same core, even as Altman says they did. Marjorie Smart was traded. Robert Williams got traded. I feel like we’re overly cautious and afraid of risks, even though taking a big swing on Mitchell is exactly what made us contenders. So Chris, to reiterate the initial question from Caleb, do you think that Koby Altman has become, let’s use the word, complacent with the roster that, that they have or has he seen enough that makes him want to stay where he is with the core and not make marginal moves?
Chris Fedor: Look, I think this is a nuanced conversation, Ethan, and I think part of it is the situation that they’re in, the salary cap situation. How much financial flexibility do you have? How much roster flexibility do you have? How many tradable assets do you have on the roster? And the Cavs made a huge move a couple of years ago to get Donovan Mitchell, and they knew that that was going to be their big move. And that took away a number of their trade assets, their draft capital gone, their younger players that were attractive to other teams, gone. All in the same deal. And I wouldn’t say that this team doesn’t take risks. It was a risk to fire J.B. bickerstaff. They were coming off back to back playoff appearances. They had won 99 games total over the previous two years. They had just advanced to the Eastern Conference semifinals. That was a risk, but they were willing to take it because they felt like there were some options out there that, that were going to be good for them. And they felt like a new coach with a new direction, new philosophy, new system was going to help them take the next step. And then they took another risk. They took another risk at the trade deadline. They traded two guys that were a big part of the Cavs becoming what they were, which at the time was the number one team in the Eastern Conference, which at the time was a team that a lot of people around the NBA looked at and said NBA championship contenders. Two guys that were part of the rotation, that were part of that franchise evolution. Two guys that were beloved in the locker room, and they traded them both for DeAndre Hunter. So that was a risk at the trade deadline. So I think this team is willing to make moves when there’s a move out there for them to make, and I think that’s where the breakdown comes. And it doesn’t mean that the Cavs would not trade Darius Garland. It doesn’t mean that the Cavs would not trade. And I bring up Darius because that’s somebody that Koby drafted and that’s where this subtexter was going. It doesn’t mean that Koby wouldn’t trade Isaac Okoro, another guy that he drafted in the top five. It doesn’t mean that that Koby wouldn’t trade Jared Allen, a guy that he liked around draft time, pursued a couple of years in advance of actually getting Jarrett. It doesn’t mean that Koby wouldn’t make a difficult decision when it comes to Ty Jerome, somebody that he’s had a relationship with for more than a decade now. It just has to be the right deal. That’s what it comes down to. There has to be. If you’re going to trade high level talent or talent that you have seen be successful for you in some capacity, you have to have a deal out there that makes sense that you’re willing to say yes to, that you believe is going to make you a better basketball team. So if the right deal is out there for any one of those guys that I just said and it makes sense for the Cavs to do it, I think they would do it. I think it would be hard. There are emotions involved. There is chemistry involved. There is an investment that the Cavs have made in Darius Jarrett, Isaac Okoro, Jalen Tyson, even some of these guys that they have brought to the organization. And brought to the organization for a reason. But when it comes to winning a championship, it requires. It requires difficult conversations. It requires in some cases, painful decisions. It was painful a couple of years ago for the Cavs to trade Lowry Markkanen. They didn’t want to put him in the package for Donovan Mitchell, but that’s what it costs. That’s what Utah asked for specifically. It was painful to trade away George niang and Karis LeVert, two guys that were beloved in the locker room, two guys that played a part in them becoming the number one team in the East. But they were willing to do it because they thought it was the best move for the organization. And if that move presents itself this offseason, I have no doubt, Ethan, that this front office would be willing to make that move.
Ethan Sands: And as we work our way up the front office, going all the way to the president of basketball operations, Koby Altman, we just discussed, but now we’re talking about owner Dan Gilbert, Anew from San Francisco said, have you seen the headlines that Dan Gilbert Pocketbook could or may not be as open as once thought? Any insights? What are the most viable ways to get out of the second apron and lower the text? And obviously I texted with Anu a little bit because he is one of our more insightful, one of our more creatively outlooked subscribers and I love having conversations with him because he is so knowledgeable about the game in his own right, but also craves to learn about anything that he can. So I asked him what exactly, where exactly he saw the headline and he got back to me with the article probably in about five minutes. It was great. He sent me the article that was written by Bleacher Report that covers each team’s biggest fear during the 2025 NBA off season. And the headline is literally for the Cleveland Cavaliers or the subhead is the Cleveland Cavaliers. Dan Gilbert gets Pocket shy and it lists off Evan Mobley, obviously on the verge of a supermax Ty Jerome being a litmus test because his money would run about 80 plus million dollars in additional tax penalties. And then just how that could impact whether or not the Cavs decide to dump some players to get out of the second apron as a whole, Isaac Okoro, DeAndre Hunter, Max Stru, maybe even Jared Allen, as the article states. Chris, we haven’t known Dan Gilbert to get pocket shy. We’ve known him to be more involved if he believes that a team is capable of getting to the next level and knows that there’s a move out there. As you told me when I first got here, then Gilbert always looms, always looms on a given situation. What do you think about the question from anew about the pocketbook of Dan Gilbert potentially getting shy and what that could mean for the Cleveland Cavaliers in an off season that could make or break this next season and their core?
Chris Fedor: Well, I think when it comes to the second apron, Ethan, it’s not about Dan’s pocketbook, it’s not about his willingness. It’s about whether team decision makers are okay going into the second apron and all of the limitations when it comes to roster building, all of the restrictions when it comes to external moves. And the second apron becomes problematic if you don’t feel good enough about your roster as is, if you feel good about your roster, you’re fine with the second apron because you don’t feel like it’s preventing you from making any kinds of moves or whatever. And at the time that the Cavs traded for DeAndre Hunter at the trade deadline, they were feeling really good about their roster both in the short term and in the long term. But that was before they lost in the second round to Indiana. Right? That was before a lot of things happened throughout the course of that playoff series that might give a front office a little bit of pause with that. Look, I think this front office is canvassing the NBA right now and in figuring out what’s possible for them this off season, from everything that I’m told, they’re having a hard time finding anybody that has legitimate interest in Isaac Okoro, unless Isaac also comes with some kind of sweetener from the caps, some kinds of assets attached to his contract. Because I think there are teams out there that are looking at Isaac and they’re saying we’d be doing you a favor by taking on his contract. So make it worth our time to do that. Make it worthwhile for us to do that. Give us future second round picks. Go find a first round pick somehow that you can trade to us along with Isaac Okoro, then we’ll help you out. From everything that I’ve heard, the Cavs have had discussions about Dean Wade and do they want to see if they, they can use him and something else to see if they can get assets back, different kinds of assets back, or different kinds of players back in return. So I think they’re trying to figure out what is possible for us. And if we move off of Isaac Okoro’s money, if we move off Dean Wade’s money, does that make it easier to justify a tie Jerome contract, does that make it easier to justify a Sam Merrill contract. If we keep Isaac, if we keep Dean, if we don’t find takers for either one of them, if we don’t find a deal out there that makes sense for us, are we okay keeping both those guys and signing Ty? Are we okay keeping both those guys and signing Ty and signing Sam Merrill? So it’s just figuring out the path forward this off season and what’s possible for them. But. But I don’t think the second apron thing is. Is a Dan Gilbert discussion that much. I think the luxury tax bill is a Dan Gilbert thing, but the second apron thing is how comfortable are the Cavs with this roster where they know that external moves become really, really complicated if they get into the second apron. So I think if Dan feels like the team has a legitimate chance to compete and this is a team that could potentially win an NBA championship, his history has shown that he’s willing to spend. He has to believe in the player that’s getting that kind of money. He has to believe in the roster that he’s paying exorbitantly for. He has to believe that it’s not going to end in a second round, flame out again. He has to believe that, you know, Ty Jerome’s going to show up and make it worth it in a playoff series. He has to believe that Sam Merrill is going to show up and make it worth it in a playoff series. So I think that’s the evaluation that. That is going on internally for. For this organization. And that’s why I said this is the off season where you have to have a harsh evaluation, where you have to take a hard look in the mirror. Because one specific move and all of a sudden maybe you have no financial flexibility or one specific move, and all of a sudden Dan Gilbert’s cutting a luxury tax check for $90 million. And as Koby Altman, you have to justify that to him. You have to explain to him why he’s doing that and what the benefit of him doing that is. So all of those things are happening internally right now. But I don’t think this. This organization is hell bent on avoiding the tax. I don’t think this organization is hell bent on avoiding the second apron. I think they’re just trying to figure out how much sense it makes for them to be a second apron theme at this stage.
Ethan Sands: And just because I’ve seen some confusion on the second apron as a whole, I wanted to make this clarification for anybody listening. Any move between now and the end of the current league year, which is June 30th must be a compliance with the Cavs apron status in the new league year. So if the Cavs are going to be a second apron team, they cannot do anything that would put them into the second apron of this season. Right? And that makes things even more difficult because you talk about all the packages that they would want to do, but it’s like, well, we’re going to be a second apron team anyway. No, that’s not how that works, unfortunately.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Ethan Sands: So it just makes everything much more complicated because you’re still working in this technical year, but you’re preparing for the money that you’re not going to have or going to have to give away for next year, which makes things much more complicated. The CBA is a tricky thing.
Chris Fedor: Just like in the past, the Cavs were very, very cognizant about going into the luxury tax. Part of the motivation for the trade at the trade deadline was ducking the tax because they didn’t want the clock to start yet. As an organization, you have to figure out when are you willing for that luxury tax clock to start. As an organization, you have to figure out when am I willing to go into the second apron. As an organization, you’ve got to figure those things out. And if you are not a team that’s ready to compete for a championship, like legitimately ready to compete for a championship, that there is a deep down belief that you have a roster that is good enough and ready enough to compete for a championship, then you try to avoid those two realities for as long as possible.
Ethan Sands: And we’re getting to the point where we’re going to have to work backwards. Chris, We’ve gone all the way to the top, to the owner Dan Gilbert. You’ve gone to the president of basketball operations, Koby Alpin. Now let’s get into the players that are going to be in this. But I wanted to have a little bit of fun, so I picked out two last questions that are more fun oriented for this segment of hey Chris. This one comes from Colorado Springs. DJ asks hey Chris, how soon before Evan Mobley gets his own shoe? We’ve talked about this in the past, Chris. And Evan Mobley may be one of the only players I’ve seen to wear consistently throughout a season. The same style of shoe, maybe even the same colorway of a shoe. He’ll warm up in a certain shoe sometime, but he’ll play in those white and black shoes. I don’t even know what brand they are, but I saw on his Instagram today when he was working out with his personal trainer that we were talking about earlier, that he had a blue colorway on, and I was like, wait, hold on. Is he getting stylistically creative now? What do you think about the chances? As we know, Evan Mobley is not a loud, is not a scream, is not a famous type of player. He’s more of, I’m here so I can play the game of basketball, do what I love, and support the ones around me. Do you think he wants a signature shoe? I mean, obviously everybody does a legend, but do you think it’s plausible for him to get one? And how soon do you think that could happen?
Chris Fedor: So the problem is, from everything that I know, and I know a couple of people that work at Nike that are part of this, and I know a couple of people that work at Adidas that are also part of this, and I’ve had a few different conversations with them. And from everything that I understand, Adidas has five. Five signature shoes available. Just in terms of their roster. I’m pretty sure Nike has five signature shoes available as well. And a lot of these guys that have their signature shoes, they’re locked into contracts. And I mean, there is a constant thing with Adidas, with Nike, with Converse, with Reebok. They’re always looking for the next athlete. They’re always looking for the basketball player who they could get to sign with them and give a big contract to, and that guy becomes part of their family, whether it’s the Nike family, whether it’s the Adidas family, Converse, Reebok. And I know that a couple of these were interested in Shea. He was kind of like the next one in line that didn’t have a signature shoe at the time that I was having these conversations that these places were looking at because they thought he was like the next big thing. When I was having those conversations with those people, it didn’t feel like Evan Mobley was near the top of their wish list. It didn’t feel like that. Now, that was before he became an all Star. That was before he became second team, all NBA. But it takes a lot to get a signature shoe. It does. It takes. It takes a guy who can connect with. With a fan base. It takes a guy who can connect globally. You know, Donovan Mitchell is marketable in Cleveland, Utah, New York, Los Angeles, wherever. Anthony Edwards. There’s a reason why he’s Adidas number one guy. If you go to the Adidas Village in Portland and they don’t call it a campus because that’s what Nike uses. And Adidas doesn’t want to use the same language. And it’s pretty hilarious because I said I’ll meet you on campus to somebody who said it’s not campus, it’s a village. Oh, okay. So at Adidas village, like there are signs of all their different athletes, but the guy who appears most prominently is amazing. It’s, it’s not Donovan Mitchell. It’s not Trey Young, it’s not James Harden, it’s Anthony Edwards. So it’s clear that that ant is kind of like, he’s kind of like Adidas’s number one guy. And I would say Nike’s number one guy will probably morph into Wemby. But think about Wemby. Wemby reaches France, Wemby reaches Europe. Wemby has the kind of game and I, I think he’s, he’s the kind of guy that fans have already gravitated to nice and early. Sometimes you just have to look at all star voting. That’s not, that’s not the only thing that you look at, but it kind of gives you an indication of popularity. And Evan’s just not there. He’s. He doesn’t have that kind of game. I don’t know. I think it’s going to take him a little bit of time to get that, that notoriety and that kind of attention in saying that there is a billboard in Cleveland, in the downtown area that has him and Donovan Mitchell together and it’s an Adidas one. And I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I would also say that I think, I don’t know this for sure, but I do think when you’re talking about Nike signature shoe, Adidas signature shoe, I don’t think that you want two on the same basketball team. Because as long as Donovan’s going to be with the Cavs and he’s going to be the face of the franchise, he’s going to be the marketable guy. And I just don’t think you want two guys that are conflicting with each other and two guys in the same market. That’s just my opinion on the whole thing. So as long as Donovan has a signature shoe with Adidas and he plays in Cleveland, I just don’t think Evan is going to get the off court opportunities and the platform that maybe would go to a guy who is worthy of a signature shoe.
Ethan Sands: I think that’s great insight. I think as much as people are now seeing like more shoes coming out across the NBA, the wnba, Asia Wilson has a shoe, right? Sabrinasku has a shoe. All these different things, like it’s not as easy as, oh, you’re a star player. You get a shoe, you get a shoe, you get a shoe. No, sorry, we’re not Oprah around here. It’s difficult to come about getting a signature shoe. And that’s why, like, even Isaac Okora, who has a shoe through Holo, is like, very much proud and is rightfully has pride in having a signature shoe, something that people dream about. And obviously Isaac Porter’s situation is like, he’s doing it for underprivileged kids who don’t have the money to buy specific shoes that are more expensive than the ones that he’s selling. All these different things. There’s reasonings behind all of these things, and I think that’s important context as well. And I think that’s also the perfect way to wrap up today’s episode. So with all that being said, now to wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, but remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage of the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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