CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, host Ethan Sands, along with beat reporter Chris Fedor and columnist Jimmy Watkins, delve into the recent trade of Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic and its implications for the Eastern Conference, highlighting the competitive landscape the Cavs will face moving forward.
Takeaways:
Orlando Magic Acquire Desmond Bane in Major Trade: The Memphis Grizzlies traded Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Cole Anthony, four unprotected first-round picks, and one first-round pick swap. This move represents Orlando’s attempt to capitalize on what analysts describe as a “power vacuum” at the top of the Eastern Conference, particularly with Boston’s recent vulnerabilities.
Bane’s Elite Shooting Addresses Magic’s Biggest Weakness: Desmond Bane is described as one of the NBA’s premier shooters, with Jimmy Watkins noting he’s “one of four players in NBA history to shoot 40% from three for his career on more than six attempts per game.” This directly addresses Orlando’s biggest weakness - their inability to score efficiently and shoot well from distance, potentially transforming their offensive capabilities.
Trade Compared to Indiana’s Pascal Siakam Acquisition: Chris Fedor compared this trade to Indiana acquiring Pascal Siakam, which helped elevate the Pacers to conference finals contenders. He suggested this could be “the most impactful trade that any team in the NBA makes” this offseason, potentially turning Orlando into a legitimate Eastern Conference threat in ways they weren’t before.
Bane’s Physical Style Fits Magic’s Identity: Beyond shooting, analysts highlighted how Bane’s physical style of play fits Orlando’s identity. Despite having shorter arms (described as having a “negative wingspan”), Bane is “jacked” and “not afraid to mix it up,” which complements Orlando’s defensive identity of making it physically difficult for opponents to score, with the podcast hosts noting he is “mentally built for playoff basketball.”
Magic Shed Problematic Contracts: The trade allowed Orlando to offload two contracts that were considered poor values - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (described as an “albatross” after he “forgot how to shoot”) and Cole Anthony (characterized as running “cold more often than you’d like”). This financial flexibility, combined with the talent upgrade, represents a significant win for Orlando’s front office.
Eastern Conference Power Dynamics Shifting: The podcast discussion highlighted how the Eastern Conference is experiencing significant change, with Chris Fedor stating he “would be incredibly tempted to pick the Magic over every single team but Indiana and maybe New York in a seven-game playoff series,” including the Cavaliers. This suggests Orlando may have elevated themselves to a top-four team in the conference with this single move.
Draft Capital Concerns Dismissed: While Orlando gave up significant draft capital (four unprotected first-round picks and a swap), the hosts dismissed concerns about mortgaging the future. Jimmy Watkins noted that “worrying about those picks, that’s planning to fail” and emphasized that “the Orlando Magic are not trying to win trades, they’re trying to win basketball games,” suggesting the picks will likely be late first-rounders if the team succeeds.
Implications for Cavaliers’ Trade Options: The hosts discussed how this trade might affect potential Cavaliers trades involving Darius Garland or Jarrett Allen. They concluded that Orlando, previously considered a potential Garland suitor, has likely removed themselves from that market, potentially reducing leverage in any Garland trade discussions. As Chris Fedor noted, “I think Darius Garland’s price may have dropped a touch today.”
Cavaliers’ Position of Strength: Despite the Magic’s improvement, the hosts emphasized that Cleveland remains in a position of strength with “three all-stars, two all-NBA players, and the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.” Fedor stressed that the Cavs “aren’t in a situation where they have to overreact” or “make panic-induced decisions,” suggesting they should maintain their patient approach to roster construction.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today, Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com’s finest. As news continues to break, there is so much going on around the NBA and Chris and Jimmy, I don’t know if you guys expected there to be trades ahead of the June 30 end of the official season, but the Memphis Grizzlies and the Orlando Magic were not waiting around for anybody else and started off with a bang. The Memphis Grizzlies trading Desmond Bain to the Orlando Magic for Kentavious Caldwell, Pope Cole Anthony. Four unprotected first round picks and one first round pick swap. I just want to get your overall thoughts on this trade as a whole. Jimmy, I know you had an article come out about this. Jimmy, what do you think about the trade to send Desmond Bain to your Orlando Magic, how it affects the east, and more specifically, how it affects the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Jimmy Watkins: It was a power vacuum at the top of the east right now, and the Orlando Magic are saying, we think we can fill that. It’s not just about Jason Tatum towards Achilles in Boston. There’s no true king of the east, right? Like, you know, Indiana Pacers deserve our respect, but there’s just a different feel to when Boston was winning. I think they won 54 games a year over the last four years. Two finals appearances, one championship, another conference finals appearance. In that window. There’s a different air to Boston. You can’t get into this club. Some of these teams, frankly, whereas with the Pacers, the Cavs, they’re good, These teams respect them, but they look at them and they say, we think we can compete with you. We think we can reach your level. The Orlando Magic, obviously, the Cavs are a different team with a different coach and different players. Now, wasn’t that long ago the Orlando Magic were up by double digits at halftime of Game 7 in Cleveland in the first round of the playoffs in 2024. Okay. And the Orlando Magic, with Jalen Suggs in the lineup last year, were on pace to win 47 games. They won 47 games the year before. They were pretty much the same team. They. They were pretty much the same team. The issue was and always has been the Orlando Magic, they can’t score. More specifically, they can’t shoot. Well. Desmond Bain, short of like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, he’s one of the best shooters in the NBA. Okay. He’s got a versatile jump shot off the Dribble on the move. However you want it. Desmond Bain’s got it for you. One of four players in NBA history. As I told subtexters and wrote in the column I wrote about this trade. One of four players in NBA history to shoot 40% from 50 for his career on more than six attempts per game. Sniper. Sniper. One player doesn’t change everything. It would still be really nice if Franz Wagner can figure his jump shot out. It would still be nice for Jalen Suggs to be a more consistent shooter. The Magic are still going to be looking on the margins now for extra shooting help to help create space for Franz and Paolo. But man, Desmond Bane, it’s one shooter but he’s the kind of guy that you just. He’s no help at all times. He can create so much space for you off the ball. He’s got the attention of the defense at all times. I really think he can unlock a different tier the Magic can get into. For the Cavs. It’s just another layer. It’s not like the Magic are making moves. Well now the Cavs have to do something. It’s not that simple. But it is something to consider as we weigh the future of the core four. And the Cavs continue to bet on internal development, which is not. That’s not stuff staying the same. They want the players, they have to get better. But other teams are going to start thinking like this too. I’m looking at you Detroit Pistons, I’m looking at you Atlanta Hawks, all these perennial in betweeners or even worse next year there’s real opportunity and those these are natural risers anyways. Like the Orlando Magic are also betting on internal development. They’re betting big on Desmond Bain. But like they’re betting on Paolo Banchero maturing. They’re betting on Franz Wagner maturing. The Pistons are going to bet on Cade Cunningham maturing. Jaden Ivey being healthy. These things are going to matter. The Hawks, Zachary Richache maturing in year two, Jalen Johnson being healthy, making a difference. And if we were to add one more piece, let’s see if we can go get something where it is that put us with these teams that we think we can compete with. These other teams are not scared of the Cavs and that shouldn’t matter to the Cavs. They still have the best roster out of basically all the teams in the I don’t know how you weigh roster when Indiana just beat them in five games and then now they’re in the finals and pushing Oklahoma City. But like I’d still Rather have the Cavs roster over like the next three years than the Pacers. It’s just like the east that you think we’re getting next year this dumbed down. Oh my God, it’s going to be so bad. Hold on a second. We might have some newcomers at the table. Ketavius. Cole Pope lost his jump shot last year. That’s why he’s gone now.
Chris Fedor: Yes.
Jimmy Watkins: Cole Anthony’s a sixth man that runs cold more often than you’d like. There’s the scout for you.
Chris Fedor: Yeah. One of those first round picks that that Orlando had to include in this deal was entirely because they had to dump Kentavious Caldwell Pope’s contract and that was to incentivize Memphis to take that albatross of a contract that was going to hamstring the Orlando Magic. For a player that’s value continues to diminish and his value was never going to match the salary that he signed. Not with the Orlando Magic. But I mean I think we have entered an era with, with today’s CBA where it’s not only about talent. Here it is about fit. It is about camaraderie, it is about playing style. The most talented team is not always going to win. It’s just not going to happen. And I don’t think you could find a guy that was quote unquote available this offseason that fits Orlando better than Desmond Bain does. This is an A plus deal for the Magic and I would be incredibly tempted to pick the Magic over every single team but Indiana and maybe New York in a seven game playoff series. And that includes the Cavs. Because I think that much of this particular deal, I think this elevates Orlando to a top four team in the Eastern Conference. Because Desmond Bain is everything that the Magic needed and everything that the Magic were missing. The shooting and the spacing. Yep, Jimmy talked about it. But he is a secondary playmaker whose playmaking took a big step forward this past season. Especially during all the time that John Morant missed. So what does Orlando need? What does Orlando lack? It’s everything that Desmond Bane brings to the table. On top of that, he can guard multiple positions. He’s tough and he’s physical and he’s grimy. He rebounds well for his position. I just think, you know, obviously Franz, I think he’ll take a step forward. I think Paolo will take a step forward. But this deal to me that Orlando made it is shades of Indiana getting Pascal Siakam. It was Indiana a couple of years ago recognizing that they were pretty good. They were pretty good and they had a lot of pieces that they liked on that roster. But they needed somebody to bring it all together. They needed somebody that was going to go there and help them take the next step. In the case of Pascal, he was an adult, he was an NBA champion. He was the second scoring option on an NBA champion. He could run some two man stuff with Tyrese Halliburton. He fit the kind of playing style he has. Positional versatility, multi dimensional player. But that was the thing, that was the move that put Indiana over the top and led to back to back conference finals appearances and now this NBA Finals appearance. And this is what the deal feels like to me with the Magic. A team that was on the rise, a team that was knocking on the door. But they were missing something. There was something that was always going to prevent them from taking that next step and they recognized it. That’s why they spent all that money on Kentavius Caldwell Pope. They needed an adult, they needed a playoff guy, they needed a three point shooter, they needed to create some movement within their offense. They needed somebody who could space the floor. And the idea of Kentavious Caldwell Pope was logical for Orlando. But then he forgot how to shoot and then he wasn’t the guy that he had grown into in some of these other stops along the way. Desmond Bain is only going to get better, like his trajectory is going up here. So they found a player whose best basketball may be ahead of him. And I know that he doesn’t get all the headlines. Look, if he was in the Eastern Conference for the last couple of years, he would be an all star. Probably a multi time all star by the way. But he was stuck in the Western Conference and he couldn’t get to the All Star game because of that, because it was a numbers game. But you’re looking at somebody who. Maybe he’s not going to create the same headlines as Katie, maybe he’s not going to create the same headlines as Trae Young if Trey gets traded this off season or whoever else may get traded. But this to me, and I don’t know what’s going to happen for the remainder of this NBA off season, but this to me has the chance to be the most impactful trade that any team in the NBA makes. Because I do think this makes Orlando the kind of threat that it wasn’t.
Jimmy Watkins: By the way, can we just address the dorks, the GM dorks on the Internet who go but four unprotected first round picks. Look man, the Phoenix pick next year, that could be something that one might hurt you. Next year’s draft is supposed to be a deep draft, so that one might hurt you. The three unprotected Orlando firsts. This team could be good, man. And worrying about those picks that’s planning to fail. The Orlando Magic are not trying to win trades. They’re trying to win basketball games. Win with this Desmond Bane trade. And another underrated way in which Desmond Bane fits Orlando like KCP fit them. Fit the defensive identity insofar as he’s a good defender. He’s more of a wiry guy. Desmond Bane’s jacked, dude. Desmond Bane, maybe just because he’s like a shorter guy too. He’s like 6, 4, 6, 5 maybe. And he’s got short arms. He looks like. If you guys have seen spongebob, he looks like when spongebob bought the inflatable muscle arms. I think they’re called anchor arms. That’s what Desmond Bane looks like on the basketball court. That dude’s fricking jack. And part of the Orlando Magic’s identity is not. It’s not just we’re hard to score on. Like, it hurts to score on us. The other Pacers parallel I would draw with them is like, I mean, there’s nothing similar about the way that the Indiana Pacers play basketball and the Orlando Magic play basketball. But they both play a specific style that can wear you down.
Chris Fedor: Yes.
Jimmy Watkins: Over the course of a seven game series, the Magic do it with brute force. The Pacers do it with speed and relentlessness. But the point is the same Desmond Bain, KCP as defenders. I don’t know. I might give KCP a slight edge, but it’s negligible to me because one of everything we’ve said about Desmond Bain the offensive player, and he fits this identity of physically, we are going to win. And Desmond Bain is not afraid to mix it up. He is mentally built for playoff basketball. That’s another way. I think that’s a good move for them.
Chris Fedor: I think he already has a new nickname now that he’s in Orlando because he’s got these little T. Rex arms. At least people talk about his arms being like T. Rex. So I think they’re already calling him.
Ethan Sands: 3 Rex because he switched his number from 22 to number 3. Interesting.
Chris Fedor: Shoots the crap out of the 3 point shot.
Ethan Sands: That works too. I do think it’s funny that people try and discuss like his wingspan because I think he has a negative wingspan, if I’m not mistaken. Like he’s six foot five.
Jimmy Watkins: That’s. Yeah, that’s the idea.
Ethan Sands: So that’s the pro and the con of being jacked at 6 foot 5 and not having a wingspan but like.
Jimmy Watkins: No she on the bench press. No bench press. Shorter arms.
Chris Fedor: It sure does. It sure does. Another parallel for this trade. This could be Orlando’s version of Derrick White.
Ethan Sands: Now we have to get into how this impacts the Cavs. Obviously Chris hit off with a bombshell talking about he would now take Orlando in a seven game series over the Cavs.
Chris Fedor: Said I would be tempted. The aggregators, Ethan, the aggregators are listening very, very closely. I said I would be tempted to take them to win a seven game series over every team in the east but Indiana, New York. Tempted? Not that I would. I’d be tempted.
Ethan Sands: I still think that’s a strong take when we haven’t seen them play together, but nonetheless I think it’s fair. And I want to get into now how this affects the Cavs one, but also what this means if the Cavs would go out and try and trade one of their core pieces. As we’ve talked about throughout the entire summer, does the value of Darius Garland now increase because of what this trade had? Obviously Jimmy talked about how the picks aren’t going to matter a whole lot, but five picks is a lot of picks point blank. Right? And then we also talk about Jared Allen, what his value would be. Does that increase? Do the Cavs try and get more draft capital that they do not have to then turn into better players and other trades? What do you think this does for the Cavs in the mindset of the organization when it comes to this off season trades and how they could use it for leverage in their best opportunity to get better.
Chris Fedor: Now I don’t think it really ties in all that much. I think, I think the value and what you get back in return in a trade is in large part determined to. How determined is is the other team to get that particular player? Orlando identified a specific player and they said to hell with draft capital. This is the guy we need, we’re going to pay. So if somebody out there is looking at Darius Garland in the same kind of light, Minnesota, New Orleans, Boston, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Clippers, if they lose James Harden, I don’t know, throw out a team. If there is a team in the NBA that is looking at Darius Garland that same kind of way, then there is an understanding that they’re going to try and make the kind of offer that the Cavs would say yes to. Orlando knew that they had to make the kind of offer that Memphis would Say yes to almost an offer that Memphis couldn’t refuse. And that’s the responsibility of whatever team it is that may want Darius Garland. That is the responsibility of whatever team it is that may want Jared Allen. The Cavs aren’t in a situation where they have to overreact. The Cavs aren’t in a situation where they have to make these panic induced decisions when it comes to their roster. They’re a good team. They’re going to be a top four team in the Eastern Conference. Maybe you could make the argument that they’re the second best team in the east, third best team in the east going into next season. They’ve got three all stars, they’ve got two all NBA players, they’ve got the reigning defensive player of the year. This is a good situation. And the Cavs don’t have to be the ones that are initiating these conversations now. Conversations about Dean Wade, conversations about Isaac Kokoro. The Cavs have to be the ones to initiate those. Darius and Jarrett come to us, you tell us what you’re willing to give for those guys and if it’s enticing enough, then we’ll consider it.
Jimmy Watkins: That’s a good point. I also, I get where Ethan saying is saying like we do this when we have players go for a bunch of picks. We go, oh, Desmond Bain’s worth this. What could player y be worth? Mikel Bridges. Fine. First round picks.
Chris Fedor: Rudy Gobert.
Ethan Sands: Rudy.
Jimmy Watkins: Exactly. We keep doing this. Like Chris said, that’s. I think every deal is its own organism and there’s no trade chart that updates in real time what the value of a first round pick is by we update that with every trade. I’ll say this though. In Darius Carlin hypothetical trade talks, I do think the Cavs lost one of their biggest potential Darius Garland suitors.
Chris Fedor: Correct.
Jimmy Watkins: I’m thinking about it that way. I mean like Minnesota makes sense. Minnesota seems thirsty for kd, but Katie doesn’t want to go there. That’s kind of a conundrum. The New Orleans Pelicans. Who knows what’s going on over there? The Sacramento Kings. I’d like to get my hands on some of their picks, but that would be a mean thing to do to Darius Garland if you care about that sort of thing. So, so let’s say one of these teams does appear and they say, okay, we want Darius Garland. It’d be cool to have a second team to leverage them against and maybe drive up the price a little bit. And again, maybe you, in this current environment, maybe you can get that Anyways, but I think that Darius Garland’s price may have dropped a touch today. The ceiling of the price for Darius Garland may have dropped a touch today because the Orlando Magic effectively took themselves out of the running unless they’re willing to get loose with one of their core pieces. And even then when we were talking about like Jalen Suggs trades. But I feel like there’s gotta be draft capital attached on the Magic’s end for that sort of stuff. You know, if we’re talking Franz, okay, maybe we’re a little closer. But I digress. I was also thinking we pitched a lot of fake Cavs 3 MD guy trades this off season. Devin McBain’s name never came up. That’s kind of interesting. Memphis kind of felt like a natural something’s gotta go here team. And I just never thought of them to Testimon Payne would have fit really nice on the Cavs. Clearly they don’t have four first round picks to give. Right. So it doesn’t work in that regard. But I also, I just had a thought. Like Darion Scarland and Desmond Bane, I feel like we’re kind of close if the Cavs like Desmond Bane a lot. I feel like we’re kind of there if you want to do it that way in fake hypothetical trade where the player has already been traded world maybe the dumbest of all the fake trade worlds. I’m interested in that.
Chris Fedor: Well, the other reason Memphis didn’t make all that much sense from a Cavs perspective is because Memphis does still at this point. Who knows what’s going to happen for the remainder of this offseason. But at this point Memphis employs Ja Morant. So like the match of what Memphis needs back in return. Darius Garland not a fit there. And Jared Allen not as much a fit. They drafted Zach Edie. They still have Jaren Jackson Jr. It seems like they’re motivated to kind of restructure his contract a little bit.
Jimmy Watkins: So.
Chris Fedor: So it just didn’t seem like a natural fit with. With what the Cavs would be giving up and. And what Memphis currently has on its roster.
Jimmy Watkins: I think two birds, one stone. If you’re worried about upsetting John Morant. The John Morant arrow at this moment is not green and pointing up their last season. He is Mr. Memphis. That’s. He does have that going for him. He’s gives them an attraction. Owners like attractions. But I don’t know, man. John Morant versus Darius Garland next three years. I don’t know.
Ethan Sands: So we talked about the Orlando Magic trade that Chris had proposed at the beginning of the summer that had people up in arms with this move. Now, with the Orlando Magic acquiring Desmond Bain and getting rid of Cole Anthony in the process, along with Kentavia’s Caldwell Pope and multiple picks, do you think that the Orlando Magic would still be inclined to make a trade like the one to acquire Darius Garland for Jalen Suggs, or do you think they would want to keep the roster that they have now orchestrated?
Chris Fedor: Well, I think when it comes to Desmond Bain, he brings the things that the Magic were lacking. They’re one of the worst teams in the NBA and catch and shoot threes, he’s one of the best in catch and shoot threes. He brings a level of secondary playmaking that helps them as well. I think if you look at their roster, they probably have an opening for a legitimate set the table point guard, but what is the cost in order to get that? And they also accomplished another thing. I mean, they were looking at a situation where they were basically a first apron team kind of knocking on the door of a second apron team. And they had two really, really bad contracts, really bad contracts, and they got rid of both of them. Cole Anthony was a bad one because the value that he brought just never matched his contracts. And then Kentavius called Wolf Hope the same thing. It was a mistake that they made. Well, it was a good idea for them in free agency to go out and get somebody like him, but he didn’t perform to his contract, so they corrected that mistake. So if you were talking about Orlando and the things that they wanted to accomplish this offseason, they wanted to get more scoring, they wanted to get more playmaking, they wanted to get more shooting, and they wanted to rid themselves of KCP’s contract and Cole Anthony’s contract. I guess maybe there’s a possibility that they try and move Wendell Carter Jr. If they aren’t entirely on board with his contract. But I don’t think there’s as much of a need for the stuff that that Darius does incredibly well, aside from the ball handling, the playmaking, and somebody that can create easier shots and set the table for Franz and Paulo. So I do think they’re going to be a team that makes more sense from a free agency perspective and seeing if they can get not Ty himself, not Ty Jerome himself, but that type of player to kind of give them more ball handling.
Ethan Sands: With all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a cast insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext so you can have your voice heard. This is where you can have daily conversations with me, Chris and Jimmy. This is where you can get daily text, whether it be insight, whether it be daily reactions and analysis based on trades going on around the NBA and all these things directly to your phone. But you can only get that if you sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast and the only way to have your voice heard is through some text. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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