CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, host Ethan Sands and columnist Jimmy Watkins discuss the current state of the NBA, focusing on the Cavs and their potential challengers in the Eastern Conference.
Takeaways:
Cleveland Cavaliers Projected as Eastern Conference Leaders: The Cavaliers are projected to be the number one seed in the Eastern Conference and have the second-best record in the NBA behind only the Oklahoma City Thunder. Both hosts agree that Cleveland has “the most talented roster in the East” and has made smart offseason moves while maintaining their core group under coach Kenny Atkinson.
Orlando Magic Emerges as Serious Contender: Both Sands and Watkins rank the Orlando Magic as the second most dangerous team to the Cavaliers. The Magic’s offseason additions of Tyus Jones and Desmond Bane significantly address their previous weaknesses in shooting and playmaking. With Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner expected to continue improving, and a physical defensive identity already established, Orlando is considered a “legit threat” that previously took the Cavs to seven games.
New York Knicks Remain a Formidable Opponent: Jimmy Watkins ranks the Knicks as the top threat, citing their conference finals appearance and Jalen Brunson’s clutch performances. The physical frontcourt of OG Anunoby, Mikal Bridges, and Karl-Anthony Towns poses matchup problems, while new coach Mike Brown is expected to “modernize the Knicks offense.” The Knicks also maintain flexibility with movable contracts should they need to make midseason adjustments.
Milwaukee Bucks Still Dangerous Despite Roster Questions: The Bucks remain a threat primarily because of Giannis Antetokounmpo, who both hosts consider a top-three player in the NBA. While they lack a true ball handler after Damian Lillard’s departure, the addition of Myles Turner and shooters like Kevin Porter Jr., Gary Trent Jr., and Kyle Kuzma provides better spacing for Giannis. However, both hosts question whether this is enough to seriously challenge the Cavaliers in a playoff series.
Philadelphia 76ers Health Concerns Limit Their Ceiling: The 76ers’ potential is limited by health concerns surrounding Joel Embiid and Paul George. While they have promising young talent in Tyrese Maxey, Jared McCain, and VJ Edgecombe, Jimmy Watkins expressed skepticism: “I just don’t trust anyone on this team that matters in the playoffs to stay healthy.” Their ceiling could be high if healthy, but both hosts consider this unlikely based on recent history.
Boston Celtics Remain in Contention Despite Roster Changes: Jimmy Watkins includes the Celtics in his top three threats despite Jayson Tatum’s injury and significant roster changes. He cites the core of Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, and Anfernee Simons as still formidable, while noting their increased flexibility could lead to midseason additions. Ethan Sands disagrees, pointing to their “abysmal” frontcourt depth with Georges Niang potentially starting at power forward as a major liability against the Cavaliers.
Detroit Pistons Building Around Young Talent: The Pistons are viewed as a developing team with a promising young core led by Cade Cunningham. Their offseason acquisitions of Caris LeVert and Duncan Robinson address shooting and playmaking needs, while they continue to develop Jaden Ivey and Jalen Duren. However, both hosts agree they lack the playoff experience to seriously challenge the Cavaliers in a seven-game series.
Matchup Problems Key to Playoff Success: A recurring theme throughout the discussion is how specific player matchups could neutralize the Cavaliers’ strengths. Particularly concerning is the Atlanta Hawks’ Kristaps Porzingis, who historically has limited Evan Mobley’s effectiveness. The hosts emphasize that teams with length, physicality, and defensive versatility pose the greatest challenges to Cleveland, especially in playoff settings where the Cavaliers have “shown for three years in a row that they behave differently.”
Playoff Performance Remains the Ultimate Test: Despite the Cavaliers’ projected regular season success, both hosts express concern about how Cleveland will perform in high-pressure playoff situations. The ability to execute in late-game scenarios and respond to adversity remains the biggest question mark for Cleveland, regardless of their talent advantage over most Eastern Conference teams.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me on today’s episode, Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com’s columnist. And Chris Fedor could not make it today because he’s on his way to summer league in Las Vegas. Jimmy, there’s so much going on around the league. We’ve talked about the summer moves that have been happening around the NBA free agency, trades and all of the good stuff that comes with it. And now we’re going to get the opportunity to watch some basketball. Yes, it is summer league, but yes, I’m still excited for the season to be coming around the corner. That’s what summer league indicates to meet. But as I mentioned, there have been moves around the margins that have helped these teams. Obviously the NBA draft can help with that, but I wanted to break down some of the teams that could pose the biggest threat to the Cleveland Cavaliers as we’re almost midway through the summer and trying to figure out what free agency and trades have done for the teams around the Eastern Conference. Let’s go with the top six. Six I’m gonna let you start. Who do you have as the sixth best team in the Eastern Conference when it comes to challenging the Cleveland Cavaliers and preventing them from reaching the NBA Finals?
Jimmy Watkins: Kind of flip a coin between the Bucs and Pistons here. I think the Pistons are deeper than the Bucks. I don’t think that either of these teams are particularly have the Cavs quaking in their shoes at this point. But you have to respect Giannis in any playoff series a front line of Miles Turner and Giannis is defensively a formidable combination. Miles Turner is not quite the all world rim protector he was maybe in his mid-20s, but he’s still pretty good there. And Giannis is Giannis and pairing Giannis with a stretch big. We have lots and lots of data on that from his time with Brook Lopez that that really works enough. I just don’t know who’s dribbling the ball for that team for most of the year. And in playoff series the Bucs basically brought their entire team back besides Dame and Brook Lopez. Maybe Pat Connachin too and didn’t replace Dame really just replaced Brook Lopez with Miles Turner, which I think is a marginal up to marginal plus upgrade and said okay Giannis, let’s go win a championship with this or compete for a championship with this. I just have to think there’s another move coming from them. I’m looking at the Kuzma contract 22ish million. I’m looking at a 2032 first round pick. I think the Nuggets are the only team that have traded a pick out that far to this point. But if you’re trying to retain Giannis, I’d say it’s all hands on deck. I guess I would go regular season I think it’s Pistons, Bucks in that order be 5, 6 but I think in a playoff season I still just it’s Giannis so I’ll go Bucks, Pistons again, not sure either. These teams are legitimate threats.
Ethan Sands: So Jimmy, I actually have the Detroit Pistons as my number six team on this list and I’ve gone into the different analytics when it comes to these teams that have already posed different issues to the Cavs obviously in recent years in Detroit and taking into the notion of obviously the regular season and the playoffs, I just don’t think that the Detroit Pistons have the experience yet of playoff performances. Obviously they had a great series against the New York Knicks, but I think the New York Knicks don’t pose the same kinds of problems that the Cleveland Cavaliers would for the Detroit Pistons in a seven game series. With that said, I do want to go into a little bit of their depth chart which I found very interesting with the moves that they’ve made. Obviously they have Cade Cunningham running the points as their all star guard Jaden Ivey is set to return after missing a majority of last season. Asar Thompson, they’re looking for him to have more of a facilitating role to help Cade Cunningham get off the ball a little bit more coming into this next season. Tobias Harris, Jalen Duran and then obviously they also went and got Caris Lavert and Duncan Robinson, two off season acquisitions that I feel like work alongside. One, the necessary shooting that they lost or could be losing with Malik Beasley and Tim Hardaway Jr. And Duncan Robinson and also the ball handling and facilitation that we talked about in Karis Lavert. They also got Marcus Sassard, Ronald Holland the second and Isaiah Stewart of course and Paul Reed on that backline as well. So I think they have different pieces that are still working to find out how they mess together. Their starting lineup has been together for a decent minute. It’s about re acclimating Jaden Ivey figuring out what his role is going to be on this team out productive he’s going to be able to be in the year coming back from injury. But Jimmy, you mentioned your number five pick and I actually don’t have Milwaukee as my number five pick. I have the Philadelphia 76ers as my number five pick and seeing how they have a lot of different players coming back from injury this coming season. Tyrese Maxey should be healthy. Joel Embiid, who knows, should be healthy. Paul George should also be healthy. And then we talk about their potential rookie of the year who is playing out of his mind to start the season in Jared McCain. Also, let me mention that they went and drafted someone that I’m extremely high on out of the NBA draft in VJ who comes from Baylor. A 6 or 5, 180. You can call him a win, you can call him a go. I see him as a guy who’s hungry and wants to win at the highest level. He’s the guy who had one of the most inspirational and emotional stories on draft night that I think hits hard for a lot of different people who want to see just players of this caliber win. Also, they still have on their roster Kelly Oubre Jr. Justin Edwards and Andre Drummond at this point. So I think it’s going to be interesting, along with Quentin grimes, how this 76ers offense runs if they can maintain their health. Jimmy, what do you think about the 76ers and do you have them on your list or were they a forgotten cause for you?
Jimmy Watkins: I just don’t trust anyone on this team that matters in the playoffs. Stay healthy. I think Joel Embiid is the needle mover for this franchise. Paul George at this stage, even if Paul George is healthy, I’m not sure what version of him getting at this stage of his career. And again, I’m thinking more playoff threat than regular season threat. I think there’s a world where the Pacers can get a top six, top five seed. I don’t think there’s a world where Joel Embiid. I just am at the point where I need to see Joel Embiid play 50 games in a row before I’m going to believe it happens again. Paul George season last year was very concerning, and what’s left over is an intriguing group of young players, but I. I’m not sure that tyrese Maxey, Jared McCain and VJ Edgecombe. I don’t know where that’s taken me necessarily, particularly not next year. Yeah, I’m high on all three of those guys individually, but how they mesh together is a question. Jared McCain was so impressive last year, but for such a brief flash, we don’t know how he’s going to come back. How do you incorporate Vijay Edgecomers? I mean, can you play those three at the same time against Certain teams, certain lineups maybe, but in playoff settings I have my questions. It’s just. I just have too much unknown going on. The best version of the Sixers? The pie in the sky version of the Sixers. Sure man. Like I could see it, but I. The other thing is I can’t see them being. Being the best version of themselves because it’s is not a fun thing to talk about. But I just don’t trust them to stay healthy at all.
Ethan Sands: All right, Jimmy, moving on to your number four pick. Who is the fourth best team to challenge the Cleveland Cavaliers in the overall scheme of the NBA?
Jimmy Watkins: So I think I’ll probably surprise the people with this one. I’m lower on the Hawks than I than it sounds like consensus tends to be they’re number four for me. We’ll talk about the way I have ahead of them. I was just doing some quick research before we got on the pot here. This is not the same roster they’ve had and there have been extenuating circumstances in some of these cases. I get it. But since Trey Young got to Atlanta, the Hawks have never won 50 games. Their best season was a 41 and 31 Covid shortened campaign that the year they made the conference finals run. I think it was the second year of the of the weird Covid shortage. They were on a 47 win pace that year, which is great and they had a great year that year. But I think we all understand just a lot of weird stuff happening during that time and we’re taking those, some of those results with a grain of salt. They’ve also only had a winning record twice in seven years since Trey Young got there. This will probably be the third time that they have a winning record. This is their best chance to win 50 games. This looks like the strongest roster that they’ve had around Trae Young. And I like the Nikhil Alexander Walker edition as you know someone who could take some perimeter defensive pressure off Trey. Teams are still going to hunt the crap out of him in the playoffs. It’s an unavoidable but yeah, I like that. I like the idea of Kristaps Porzingis next to Trey Young. A pick and pop big who can defend on the perimeter, defend the rim. I mean they’ve called him the unicorn for a reason. Do we just forget that Kristof Sporzingis had a weird respiratory illness for like the last four months of the season? I’ve heard that he could be playing in. I don’t know if it’s Euro basket this summer, but Playing overseas with his national team. That’s great. That’s. That’s encouraging to hear. I want to see how he looks. I want. That’s another guy that, you know. The next time he stays healthy for an entire season will be the first time. I believe it. And Jalen Johnson. I love Jalen Johnson. I think Jalen Johnson could be this all star wing that Trey has. Has needed for his entire career. He has played more than 56 games once in four years. So again, it’s damper. It’s. It’s not a fun basketball thing to talk about. The Hawks certainly have the kind of wing depth that could give the Cavs and has given the Cavs problems in the past. They’ve got good positional size. I like that. Their ability. Like if the Cavs want to try to bully, ball them with two bigs. Onyeka Kongu and Kristof Porzingis. Again, assuming they’re both there, that’s a nice pairing right there. I think the Hawks have done a nice job, but I do like this. This unprotected pick that they got. Even the kid from. I think it’s Issa Newell they got from Georgia in the draft. I like him. I don’t know if he’s going to be right next year to contribute at a playoff level, but I like him. I’m just not there yet on the Hawks. And I do. I also think that they made a great trade on draft night to get this unprotected Pelicans pick that I think is actually they. They can choose between the Pelicans and the Bucks pick next year, both of which could be in flux given what happens this season. That’s awesome. But it’s next year. Unless they try to make a move with it this year, which I would recommend not doing, I think they should hang on to that pick. I’m. I’m just not quite there on the Hawks, but I. I do acknowledge that they’ve put themselves in a higher tier with all the moves that they’ve made.
Ethan Sands: My number four pick is the Milwaukee Bucks. I have them here because of Giannis. Right. We had this conversation when Jimmy went into his reasoning. I don’t think they have a true ball handler on this team. Right. But if you can space the floor and have Giannis bring the ball up, I think that’s a scary thing to look at. Right. Their depth chart. Win healthy Kevin Porter Jr. Gary Trent Jr. Kyle Kuzma, obviously Giannis at the 4 and Miles Turner at the 5. You also still have AJ Green and Taurean Prince and Bobby Portis and now you have the acquisition of Gary Harris and Jericho Sims. I think these are all players that have experience that could help the Bucks. It’s just about who is going to bring the ball up. It’s kind of a similar conversation to what we were talking about with the Orlando Magic last year.
Jimmy Watkins: Like.
Ethan Sands: Like outside of Jalen Suggs, who are you giving the ball to? Right. Are you allowing Paolo to bring the ball up and all these things? We’ll get to that a little bit later. But I think Giannis obviously drives that that ship and he’s a guy that nobody can count out because he’s probably top three best players in the NBA still. And I just think there’s so much that he can do that makes things difficult for the Cavs that having shooters around him now, which is kind of what has been elevated as you mentioned, Jimmy Miles Turner, but Also Kevin Porter Jr. AJ Green, Kyle Kuzma, Taurean Prince. The ability for him to drive and kick now rather than driving and just having be stuck in the painted area is so much more fluid. There’s so many more options than he’s had in years past, even with having Damian Lillard on his team because we know they didn’t utilize that as well as they could have. Okay, Jimmy, give me your number three. Because I was shocked a little bit that you had Atlanta so low. So I’m curious to see how your list runs out.
Jimmy Watkins: I got Boston. I just don’t think they’re dead. I don’t think Boston’s done. I think that the core they have in place, Jaylen Brown, Derrick White, now an East Simons, Peyton Pritchard, it’s less, it’s lesser. It’s still interesting to me. And they’re going to be a little thinner on depth. I don’t like their center rotation is kind of a head scratcher to me. We’re looking at and I forget his version of Akita and then we have. They signed Luca Garza in the off season who wasn’t really playing in Minnesota. Letting Luke Cornett out, Horford and and Christoph Sprzingis walk out the door. That was interesting to me. But I do think there’s a world again. Jalen Brown’s been relatively healthy most of his career. Anthony Simons can replace some of the scoring punch. Obviously they lose a ton without having Jayson Tatum. Having two elite wings is their biggest advantage now they only have one Anthony Simons, but as an 82 game player, I like Anthony Simons. Derek White can cover some of his defensive deficiencies. I’ll be interested in. Their defense probably will slip a little bit. They’ll probably have to play a little bit differently. It won’t be able to switch as much. There’ll be more areas to pick on. But I see a scenario, I see two scenarios here. One, I could see Boston just Bostoning through the east notching enough regular season wins to keep themselves in the top half of this conference and then maybe looking up and deciding at the deadline, like, who knows? Like what if there’s an injury at the top of the another injury at the top of the east next year or one of these teams that we think is going to be a contender next year doesn’t end up. It doesn’t come to fruition for them. What if they look around and they’re like, you know what we could still add to this team. They just gained a bunch of flexibility by letting a lot by getting rid of Drew and Kristaps Porzingis and, and, and again, this is as much a commentary on the rest of the east. How little I think of it as I do my trust in the Celtics. Not saying, just saying. The Celtics have not ruled out a Jason Tatum return at some point next season. Brad Steven said that there’s no expectation on a timetable for him, but they’re not ruling out a return. The Pacers on the other hand, who advanced two rounds further makes sense, did rule out Tyrese Halliburton earlier this week for the rest of next season. So again we’re talking about, I’m thinking playoffs if we reach a point where the Celtics somehow mess around and end up in the conference finals, which given, given their, the increased flexibility they have now, given what I think of some of these other teams and even how flimsy like you know, all these teams that we think are like pseudo contenders now, they’re an injury away from not being pseudo contenders anymore. Weird stuff as we’re learning can happen. And if Jayson Tatum comes back for the conference finals and the Cavs are looking at a semi stock Boston team, I don’t want that. I don’t want that up on the Cavs.
Ethan Sands: For everybody listening and to clarify these lists that we have constructed, these rankings are in mind with everyone that doesn’t have a current debilitating injury on their team being healthy. Right. That’s why the Philadelphia 76ers made my list. I do not have Boston in my top six. The reason being is their current situation. This is again we are recording this at 7pm on July 9th. So this is based on everything we know about free agency, about trades, about the current construction of these teams rosters, about the health of these teams rosters currently. Things change and as Jimmy said, things could and will happen to change our minds throughout the season. Again, this is summertime podcasting. We’re trying to give you as much information as we possibly can. Again, Boston is not in my top six because as Jimmy mentioned, their front court depth is abysmal. Right. You have the options for the Boston Celtics at any given time at the center position to play Luke Garza, Neemius Kita, Xavier Tillman or George Niang.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, I was gonna say we could get some George Niang run. We could really get some George Niang run next year.
Ethan Sands: And by ESPN Standard on their depth chart breakdown, they have George Niang as the Boston Celtics who’s starting power forward. I’m sorry. I enjoyed our time with George in Cleveland. He was a great role player. He was a great person. But of the Cavs seed Boston and George Niang in the starting lineup as currently constructed, it is food. Who is he guarding? DeAndre Hunter? No. Dean Wade? No. Those are the back ends of that. You’re not guarding Evan Mobley. You’re not guarding Jared Allen. Who is he guarding? There is a reason the Cavs went away from George Yang. As emotionally trying as it was, there was a reason they went away from George Yang. So I don’t think Boston as currently constructed and I cannot emphasize that enough is making it to where they are going to contend with the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Jimmy Watkins: This coming season as currently constructed. Jalen Brown, Derrick White and Bernie Simons. I’m taking that top three over everyone except Cabs, Knicks, Orlando and the theoretical version of Philadelphia. That’s healthy. That doesn’t exist. Maybe Giannis and Giannis and the Yanets.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I mean, that’s fair. Jimmy and I. And I don’t think you’re missing on that one. I just don’t know how those three are going to pair together. One, you know how Jaylen Brown and Derrick White are going to be, but also, Jaylen Brown’s coming back from arthroscopic knee surgery. We saw it with Evan Mobley. Sure, Evan Mobley has something in his DNA that allows him to heal faster and better than almost anybody we’ve covered, but I don’t know how that’s going to affect Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown has dealt with injuries throughout his career that he’s had to come back from all these things. Also, how is Anthony Simons going to plug into this after coming from Portland and being one of the biggest players over there, how are you going to come find your role and be a number two, maybe even a number three option, depending on what role they give Derrick White this coming season. But I understand why you would have put them up there. They’re just not on my list. Buy number three for my list is the New York Knicks and I’m a little bit lower on the New York Knicks when it comes to contending with the Cleveland Cavaliers, in part because the Cavs have the pieces to now back up what the New York Knicks have been so good at. Right? It was the length, it was the physicality. It was the strength of OG Anobia of Karl Anthony Townsend, Jalen Brunson and the club much gene that they have and the ability that Josh Hart has to just get rebounds over everybody even though he’s only 6 foot 4 right now. You throw in the fact that you added DeAndre Hunter to this mix. You also have guys that are going to come in and play a bigger role. You have Larry Nance Jr. You have Lonzo Ball guys who can guard Jalen Brunson. Right. I just think that the Cavs have more of what it takes to guard the New York Knicks than they do the other two teams on this list that I have. And even looking back to last year, the Cavs were not as bothered by some of the things that the New York Knicks were doing. And it’s more so how the Cavs would react in a playoff environment that has them at the number three spot for me. Also the fact that they do have multiple all stars on that team and and Carla and Towns, when he gets going and he isn’t committing gun fouls, he’s a hard guard for almost everybody in the league, maybe outside of Victor Weminyama and Evan Mobley. And obviously the Cavs are home to Evan Mobley. Jimmy, who’s your number two on this list?
Jimmy Watkins: Give me the Orlando Magic. I love what Orlando did this off season. Basically you take the 47 win skeleton that they had two years ago. They were on pace to win about the same number of games last year with Jalen Suggs in the lineup. You subtract kcp. You subtract Cole Anthony, subtract Gary Harris. Thank you for your contributions. Gary Harris, nice. And kcp nice mentor, veteran mentorship. Cole Anthony, a nice spark plug bench guy in certain situations. I think Tyus Jones can be a closing lineup player for this team in certain moments. He can organize their offense in a way that it has desperately needed for a really long time. He’s been one of, if not the best backup point guards in the league for a while now. He can shoot defensively, teams will go at him, but the Magic have a lot of strong defensive players to put around him to help shield him. If he’s your only huntable guy in the court, then I think you’re in pretty decent shape. I love Desmond Bain. We’ve talked a lot when they made the Desmond Bayne trade about how good of a fit that is, schematically what he can do for their offense, how big of a jump he made as a, as a ball handler and playmaker last year. Like he can unglue some of that, some of that offense as well. And he fits their ethos. He fits their, their brawny physical style. He’s got a, he’s. He’ll talk to you. I mean, I just think the Magicker. And then you factor in Palo Baincaro just got the, the supermax rookie extension factor in. And I mean that, that’s the kind of guy that I trust to get better every year. Franz Wagner. It’s the kind of guy that I, I trust to get better every year. Franz, please. If Franz. But if you’re telling me Franz Wagner could figure out his jump shot, I might pick the freaking Orlando Magic to win the east next year. I, I don’t trust it right now, but I think their seam is dangerously close. This is a legit threat. There’s a team that took the Caps of seven games two years ago. They are much, much better than they were then. And the Caps still have, I still have questions about how they’re going to perform in a playoff series when they’re met with adversity. So I think Orlando will be a regular season. We’re assuming healthier. Jalen Stokes has not always been healthy. Paloma’s time last year, Franz missed time last year. They had a bad injury luck run last year. But I think assuming relative health, I think the Orlando Magic could be a regular season problem next year. And I think they could, they could do some real growing up in the playoffs.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I have them as my number two in this ranking as well. Orlando Magic is comfortably the second most dangerous team when it comes to stopping the Cavs from getting to the NBA Finals. And I obviously have to touch on the frontcourt depth, which is huge in these conversations. You have Palo, you have Wendell Carter Jr. You have Goga, you have Jonathan Isaac, who was a guy who was so good defensively Sneaky good. He’s kind of like the same build as Evan Mobley. He doesn’t have the same defensive acumen, but like, he was a problem against the Cavs two years ago to the point where they were starting Jonathan Isaac to try and determine what the Cavs were able to do offensively. And then obviously, as you mentioned, the acquisition of Desmond Bain is huge. But also having the option for Jalen Suggs and Anthony Black to be there, I just think it’s so important for you to get guys that can play defense that can handle the ball. And Anthony Black is growing into his own as well as a guy off the bench. And as you mentioned, Tyus Jones, I’ve been high on Tyus Jones since he went to Duke University. He’s a guy that limits turnovers to no end and is a guy that makes sure that the offense runs smoothly. And I think you needed someone like that who can run the offense, who can slow things down, who can facilitate with the best of them in the league. And if need be, you can rest Jalen Suggs a little bit more because he doesn’t have to bring up the ball. He doesn’t have to do these things. And Desmond Bain, obviously, as we mentioned, is a huge acquisition. It’s probably the biggest acquisition of the summer thus far because of his shooting acumen and what the Orlando Magic were lacking. And it was exactly that. So, Jimmy, I think you make a great point when it comes to Orlando being number two. I agree with you. Now we get to the number one most dangerous team to play against, the Cleveland Cavaliers. If this were to be the team that they were going to face in the Eastern Conference finals today, this is the team that I would be most worried about. Who do you got, Jimmy?
Jimmy Watkins: The New York Knicks. Go, New York, Go, New York, go. For a couple reasons. One, I think they’re the second most talented team in the Eastern Conference behind the Caps. As much as I love Orlando, I just saw the Knicks make the conference finals. I haven’t seen Orlando do diddly squat in the playoffs quite yet. So I’m holding off tempering my Orlando enthusiasm a little bit. I think we saw the vision for what the Knicks can be. We saw OG Anunoby and Mikel Bridges raise their games in the playoffs. Mitchell Robinson became a playoff dude the way he was defending on the perimeter and protecting the rim in short spurts. And of course, Cavs still have nightmares about Mitchell Robinson on the offensive class. Josh Hart the same way. I’m not convinced. I know that we’ve seen in recent years. Better efforts from the Cavs. Knicks had to head in the regular season. I don’t care. The Cavs are shown for three years in a row that they behave differently in the playoffs. We don’t know how that matchup would look over the course of seven games. I like the Mike Brown hire. I think Mike Brown will modernize the Knicks offense, modernize their approach to rotations, extend rotations, have their, have their best players a little bit more ready for the playoffs and is maybe a little bit more. I guess. I don’t know. What, I don’t know how much I know. I was going to say Mike Brown might have them a little bit more ready to play chess in the playoffs because he’s been on, you know, even on the Steve Kerr staff for a while back. Like tips is a pretty good playoff, is a pretty good tactician defensively. I just think that Tibbs voice is wearing a little thinner. So it could be just a new coach freshen up as well for the Knicks. And Jalen Brunson’s the best, one of the best, if not the best late fourth quarter players walking. And we see it every season. We see it every postseason. And again, I don’t know how the Cavs react in those situations. So I’m going, I’m going next. Small, small side. If the next season starts to have a little sideways, they have moves, they have movable contracts and movable contracts that people would want. So it’s not this, this team doesn’t have to be. If it goes sideways, they don’t have to be stuck. Like Karl Anthony Towns, flawed as he may be, is a guy that I think 20 teams would want Bojan and Obi Mikelpur just for the right guy. Like if I’m thinking if, if Giannis were to request a trade from the Bucks at some point during the season or the, the LeBron thing gets weird with the Lakers and these teams are trying to thread a needle where the Bucks don’t have their picks still. So they can’t tank in trading fiance unless they trade them to get their picks back. And the Lakers obviously have Lucas, so they can’t get nothing for LeBron. If that were to come to fruition, I think the Knicks would be in line. That’s a small part of the calculus, but I wanted to mention that as well.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. And obviously the LeBron James aspect adds a different kind of wrinkle to everybody’s map as of right now with what that situation is looking like and obviously him dropping hints that if he could end his career, it’s probably in two different places and it’s New York and Cleveland. So I do think that that’s an interesting one. I don’t have New York lower because I think they’re a lower team. I just don’t think they have what these last two teams that I’ve discussed have to be able to slow down the Cavs as much. Obviously you mentioned Mitchell Robinson. It’s great call. I just don’t know how much, how many minutes he’s going to get, especially if they’re going to go with the two big lineup or if they’re going to just have Kat run the five man and all these different things because they need to have ODN and Obi and Mikhail Bridges on the floor at the same time. Whether or not that adds room for Josh Cart and obviously Jalen Brad runs and needs to be on the floor. So I think there’s a lot of balancing that they have to do and Mike Brown has to figure out as well. My number one team, the team that Jimmy had a little bit lower on his list. Peace up a town. Atlanta Hawks I got them as my number one ranked team to give the Cavs a run for their money if they were to run into them in the Eastern Conference finals today. Atlanta, a team ran by one of the most clutch players in Trae Young, who has a backup now that is a defensive player of the year candidate level defender at the point of attack. We have not seen a lot of guards be able to defend the same way as Dyson Daniels has. Then you have the return of Jalen Johnson, you have Krista Porzena still being able to play the four because you have Onyeko Okonwu and as the five man, I do think it’s a little bit interesting when you talk about the frontcourt depth and I’ve talked about that a lot on today’s podcast when it comes to the Atlanta Hawks because Kristoffs and Onyeka kind of have the same vibe as Jared Allen, Evan Mobley. They would be the four and the five switching out. But you do have Muhammad to play in as the five. If you need to have him grab some extra minutes on the floor as well. And of course we don’t even mention the bench. And I think that’s where this gets interesting. When we talk about the Cavs depth, you have to also mention the Atlanta Hawks depth, the shooting of Luke Kennard, the defense of Nikhil Alexander Walker, the defense in the shooting and the scoring acumen of Zachary Richochet. And then as you mentioned, the first round pick in Newell, who is a guy that could be in the rotation to start the season depending on how he works, I just think the length, the speed, the shooting and you add some guys who have added defense and of course Kristoff Porzingis is basically the Evan Mobley stopper. When we look back to last year when guarded by Christoph Porzingis, Evan Mobley in around eight minutes of matchup data made just three of 12 field goals attempted and for 25% he was.04 from deep and he was blocked. He had four turnovers and Evan Mobley had just seven. So when we talk about matchups being null and void, when we talk about evening things out, Evan Mobley and Chris Os Porzingis, when they go head to head, they usually cancel each other out and that can’t happen. When you talk about Evan Mobley being probably on this roster for the Cavs, the second most important player, if not the first most important player on the team. So I think when you have somebody, obviously when healthy, if healthy, Christophs Porzingis poses problems for Evan Mobley, Dyson Daniels and Jalen Johnson pose problems for Donovan Mitchell, Lonzo Ball and Darius Garland. And then you have to look around the margins and see are the Cleveland Cavaliers going to have trust in their bench unit, in their wing players, in their younger guys to step up in these moments? It’s a big question mark for me. That’s why I have the Atlanta Hawks as the most dangerous team for the Cavs to face in this coming season. Again, reiterating if all are healthy 1, 2 with this being everything that has happened in free agency and trades as of now July 9th. Jimmy, before we get out of here, any final comments on our list or what you think about these teams and what you think about the Cavs heading into the 2025, 2026 campaign?
Jimmy Watkins: I think the Cavs are in good shape against the backup, wins against a lot of these teams in the regular season. Playoffs have their own beast. They have my opinion, still the most talented roster in the East. The last thing I’ll say is that trae Young shoots 40% career in the playoffs. That’s all. I just don’t think that guy’s a winning player.
Ethan Sands: I know you have your vendetta against Trae Young and Lamelo Ball for their playstyles in these things. I just think we’ve seen Trae Young perform in the playoffs. He had arguably one of the best postseason runs in basketball, and that obviously was a few years ago, but I think you have to have that in your pedigree. You have to have that in you to be able to bring it back out. It’s not like it’s foreign to him. Sure, overall his numbers might be a little bit lackluster, but I think when you talk about someone who can perform in the late game scenarios, we have Jalen Brunson, you have Trae Young, you have Donovan Mitchell, all of these players who are capable of doing that, capable of stepping up when the lights are brightest, I think those are the kind of guys that you have to watch out for. But as Jimmy was mentioning, and I think it’s some, I think the Cavs are in a great standing and we are making this rankings because we believe of how good the Cavs can be and what they need to do to overcome some of these teams. And it has been projected that the Cavs are going to be the number one seed in the Eastman Conference. They’re projected to have the second best record in the N B A behind only the Oklahoma City Thunder. So this is not saying that we believe that the Cavs would lose these contests. It’s just these are the teams that could pose the biggest threat to them. As of now, the Cavs, as we know, have made some key acquisitions, they’ve made some key moves, they’ve made some smart moves and they still only growing under Kenny Atkinson with this core group that is seemingly going to remain intact. Jimmy so we’ll have to keep waiting and watching to see how the summer hands out. But for now, that’ll do it for today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
Note: Artificial intelligence was used to help generate this story from the Cleveland Wine and Gold Talk Podcast by cleveland.com. Visitors to cleveland.com have asked for more text stories based on website podcast discussions.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.