CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins delve into the dynamics of the Cavaliers’ frontcourt, focusing on the gentle giant personas of Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley.
Takeaways:
1. The Cavaliers’ Toughness Problem
The Cleveland Cavaliers have been questioned about their toughness after their last two playoff exits. Both mental and physical toughness have been identified as areas of concern, particularly when facing more physical teams in high-pressure situations. The team struggled with physicality and mental fortitude in their playoff series against the Indiana Pacers, where they couldn’t keep up with the pace and physicality required.
2. Jarrett Allen’s Friendly Giant Persona
Jarrett Allen is described as a “friendly giant” and one of the nicest players in the NBA, which raises questions about how his off-court personality translates to on-court performance. The hosts suggest Allen needs to develop a more aggressive, assertive nature on the court, particularly as the Cavaliers face increased expectations after being the first seed in the Eastern Conference.
3. Mental vs. Physical Toughness
The discussion distinguishes between physical toughness (pushing players around) and mental toughness (responding to adversity). While Allen gets criticized for lacking toughness, the hosts note he gets more rebounds than Evan Mobley in the playoffs. The real issue appears to be mental toughness - staying engaged during opponent runs, persevering through adversity, and maintaining energy throughout games.
4. Team Ecosystem Impact
Allen’s performance is described as being a “function of his surroundings.” The podcast hosts emphasize that Allen can only be as involved offensively as his teammates allow him to be. Since he’s not the alpha of the team, he doesn’t set the tone, which may be part of the problem. The hosts suggest this is a team-wide issue rather than just an Allen problem, with other players like Darius Garland also struggling in high-pressure situations.
5. Correlation Between Touches and Energy
Analysis of Allen’s playoff game logs reveals a correlation between his rebounding (an indicator of energy) and his offensive involvement. In his five best rebounding games, he had his highest number of shooting possessions. This suggests that getting Allen more involved offensively might help maintain his energy and engagement defensively, even when plays don’t go his way.
6. Twin Towers Leadership Question
The hosts question whether having two “gentle giants” (Allen and Mobley) in the frontcourt can provide the alpha energy needed for playoff success. They suggest the Cavaliers might need an “enforcer” who can maintain a nice off-court persona while taking an aggressive approach on the court, similar to Steven Adams who is respected around the NBA but will “check” opponents who mess with his teammates.
7. Defensive Identity and Communication
Kenny Atkinson, the Cavaliers’ coach, has been emphasizing that Allen and Mobley need to be louder and more communicative as the leaders of the defense. With Max Strus and Darius Garland out at the beginning of the upcoming season, the team has an opportunity to get back to their defensive roots and showcase their true identity, which requires mental and physical toughness to adjust to adversity.
8. Donovan Mitchell’s Leadership Role
The podcast questions Donovan Mitchell’s approach during the season versus playoffs. Mitchell had been promoting a philosophy of ceding control to Evan Mobley and “doing less is doing more,” but when facing adversity against the Pacers, he changed his approach. The hosts question whether this was Mitchell taking the reins when needed or reverting to old habits when things weren’t going well.
9. Evan Mobley’s Development Path
Evan Mobley is viewed as crucial to the Cavaliers’ future success, with the hosts suggesting the team “goes as far as Evan Mobley’s development goes.” There’s debate about whether Mobley should follow a Giannis Antetokounmpo development path (adding bulk and power) or a Kevin Durant model (staying leaner and focusing on shooting). The hosts suggest Mobley needs to adopt Giannis’s mannerisms and mentality, even if he can’t match his physical build.
10. Financial Constraints on Team Building
The Cavaliers face significant financial constraints due to the NBA’s second apron rules, limiting their options for improving the roster. While the hosts identify what doesn’t work, they acknowledge the difficulty in fixing these issues under the current financial rules. Any replacement for Allen would need to replicate his rim protection and defensive impact while fitting into the team’s “extremely tight budget,” making internal development perhaps the most viable path forward.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Chaos Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today, you know him, you love him. Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com’s columnist and we are here to talk about toughness. Whether that’s mental toughness, whether that’s physical toughness. We know the Cleveland Cavaliers have been questioned in this department after the last two playoff exits and we know that the Cavs have some questions when it comes to their big men. Evan Mobley is a player that is still coming into his own and lanky seven footer who is growing in his game offensively to showcase that he is capable of being able to bang with with some of the heftier power forwards and centers in the league to be able to do all of these things as someone that’s playing both power forward and center minutes. As we know, he switches off time with another big man, Jarrett Allen, and I think that’s the player with the biggest question mark when it comes to toughness, when it comes to mental fortitude because of how he encompasses the game of basketball and looks. Added Jimmy Jared Allen is a friendly giant. He’s one of the nicest players in the NBA. He’s one of the players that you look at and you can have a great conversation with, whether it’s talking about basketball, whether it’s talking about the books that he’s reading, whether it’s talking about anything in life. But how does that translate on the basketball court? And I think that’s the main difference because to me, as a former athlete, as someone who has talk to these athletes at the professional level now for a long, long time, it feels like there needs to be a split difference in how you act off the court and how you act on the court. Sure, you can be friendly, you can have leadership, you can have good sportsmanship and all these things on the court, but you’re not necessarily supposed to have friends of opposing teams. You’re not necessarily going to come in and be as nice as possible on the court. And I think I need to see some more aggressive assertiveness, a different kind of nature from Jared Allen when it comes to this coming season, especially with the Cavs having a target on their back after being the first seed in the Eastern Conference, trying to get back to that and also knowing that toughness, physicality is what was lacking in their playoff series against the Indiana Pacers, along with just the fact that they weren’t able to keep up with the pace, physicality, mental toughness who’s also in that category. What do you think about how Jared Allen has taken his career thus far and what needs to change for him to be able to take another step?
Jimmy Watkins: I feel like when people are saying one thing about Jared Allen, they mean the other thing. I, I would frame it this way from my physical toughness, pushing dudes around standpoint. Do you think most people think Evan Mobley’s tougher than Jared Allen in that regard?
Ethan Sands: I would say no, because they understand the stature of Jared Allen. They understand what it takes to be able to keep up with guys like Giannis Antetokounmpo, Joel Embiid and Nikola Jokic on a. On a daily basis. But there are few people that I hear like nowadays that are like, well, Evan Mobley’s shown that he’ll. He’ll do what it takes, put his body on the line to get out there.
Jimmy Watkins: My point is, I feel like when we talk about toughness, Jared Allen is the one who gets the bulk of the criticism. People are the loudest, maybe. I think there’s, there’s. We have some of the more damning toughness lacking clips from Jared Allen during some of the runs over the years. Jared Allen gets more rebounds than Evan Mobley in the playoffs for his career. The reason Jared Allen exists on this basketball team as the Cavs didn’t believe that Evan Mobley was ready to absorb the physical responsibility that comes with playing full time. Five. That could be changing. That’s an evolving conversation. But, hey, guess what? Jared Allen’s still here. I don’t know. It’s kind of interesting to me. I think what we really mean, we’re talking about Jared Allen’s toughness. It’s the mental side, and it is some of. How do you respond to a run? How do you respond to adversity? I also feel it’s just like it’s staying engaged, like Jared Allen. Keep hitting people, you know, when, when the pace is going to 12 or run, keep boxing out, keep banging bodies down low. I, personally, I know people bring this up. I didn’t care that Jared Allen didn’t get into the. The scrum when DeAndre Hunter shoved Benedict Mather and after Benedict Mather and Mather gave him a cheap shot because if Jared, Jared Allen gets in that scrum, then there’s another technical foul potentially. And all that toughness just to cost your team a point. I don’t, I don’t believe in tough for the sake of trying to look tough or doing the things that you think fits a template right I think it’s more important to just toughness is less about pushing people and more about persevering. And no doubt Jared Allen needs work in that regard. But I’ve said this before, I think this is an ecosystem thing as much as it is a Jared Allen thing. Like, Jared Allen is on two fronts. Jared Allen, number one as a basketball player is a function of his surroundings. We’ve said that a lot in this podcast. Right. Like, Jared Allen can only be involved on. As involved on offense as other people decide to involve him on offense. And we know it’s an old basketball trope that you want to get your big men touches early because you know, when you fit, when you’re getting the ball, you feel like you’re more involved, you’ll be more engaged in the other, less glamorous parts of your job. Yes. The other part is because we’re having this conversation. I assume no one would have mistake Jared Allen for the alpha of this team. Right. So he doesn’t set the tone. Maybe, maybe that’s part of the problem. Maybe you could argue that your center should be setting a physical tone or a tone to how you respond to adversity, but we know it’s not going to be the case. So it’s another situation where Jared Allen could be a product of his surroundings. Like, he’s not the only guy that we’re having this conversation about, about guys that need to play better when the chips are down. Right. I think Darius Garland goes along with this. His playoff record is clouded by his injuries, but I think there have certainly been moments where, when, you know, thinking back to the Magic series, Darius and Jalen Sugars getting a shove in match going, a crazy run. The Cavs get blown out on the road. You know, like, that’s not super tough. That’s not a great way to respond to adversity. Evan Mobley, kind of a very similar, similarly wired player, like gentle giant kind of guy, soft spoken. We’ve been asking for more of the, the Giannis mannerisms from Evan Mobley. Right. And I’ll, I’ll present you this. Donovan Mitchell, I think a lot of people would say, but we want the rest of the Cavs to be like, Donovan Mitchell, the chips are down. Donovan Mitchell handles himself the right way. What do we think about this season long narrative that Donovan was pushing, that he’s ceding control to Evan Mobley and doing less is doing more and, you know, letting this young team take a step forward without him. And then when the chips are down with the pacers what happens Donovan Mitchell changes his philosophy. Now, is that, is that Donovan Mitchell taking the reins because he thought he needed to take the reins? Or I think you could also make the case that Donovan Mitchell reverted to his old ways because things weren’t going well. And again, that’s. I would argue that’s not what you’re looking for from your best player who’s setting the tone, because I’m painting with a wide brush here. But that’s the Cavs problem at large, is that when they hit adversity in the playoffs, they change their status quo. They stop doing what got them there. And that applies to everybody on this team, not just Jared Allen.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I mean, to go into a couple of points that you made to me, the Donovan Mitchell conversation is one that we’ve had for a lot of this summer because of the whole alpha narrative, the whole is he ready to actually let Evan Mobley be the number one guy rather than just saying that he’s ready to be the number one guy? We’ve had that as a completely separate podcast. I implore people listening to go listen to that one, search it up and it’s not going to be hard to find. But I do think that in the conversation of Jared Allen, it’s about how he impacts winning. And for him on this team, it’s energy, rebounding, setting screens and also rolling and being active defensively and in the painted area offensively. Right. But the biggest one of those is energy. And we noticed that when it came to the Indiana Pacers series, when he got blocked on the offensive end by Miles Turner, who’s not the greatest block specialist by any means, and it kind of deterred Jared Allen’s energy on the defensive end. He got caught just looking around, got caught on the perimeter, getting faced by Tyrese Halliburton and then getting cooked at the top of the key. Right. That that was how that play of events kind of played itself out. And that can’t happen because you, although not an alpha, although not one of the top tier players on the scene, although you are on the core four, you are the energy hub for this team. You cannot lose that because then everybody else is looking around, well, if our energy guy is not doing it, then what’s the point? Why are we here? It’s not diving on the floor for Jared Allen. It’s communicating, being loud defensively, not getting caught in those situations because you are the leader of the defense. And that’s what Kenny Atkinson has been preaching for this team, is that Jared Allen and Evan Mobley are need to be louder, need to be more communicative because of their roles on this team. And even if the offense wasn’t going to go his way, the defense is where the Cavs are supposed to be hanging their hat. And I feel like we’ve had this conversation a couple of times this summer too. But the defensive mindset is where the Cavs need to improve largely this coming season. And the eyes should not go any further than the Twin Towers who are supposed to lead the team to being a top five defense in the NBA. Right? So, and Jimmy, you made this point on a on a separate podcast and I’m going to reiterate it because I think it was a good one. The beginning of this coming season, the 2025, 2026 year, the Cleveland Cavaliers have the opportunity to get back to their defensive roots. Although they’ve been saying that they’ve been a defense first team for the last year with Kenny Agington, it’s not possible being the number one offense and then lowering your defensive rating from one of the top three to at the end of the top ten of the defensive rating, right? So now with Max Strus out, with Darius Garland out, you have the obligation to improve defensively because two of your best offensive weapons are not going to be there. I just think it’s going to be important to showcase what the Cavs truly believe that they’re capable of and who the Cavs think they are. Because that’s what mental toughness is. That’s what physical toughness is, is being able to adjust to adversity on the fly. And especially in this case when you know it’s coming, are you going to be ready?
Jimmy Watkins: So I think there’s a conversation we had like and I’ve had this conversation with people on the beat before. Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, are they, are they too similar in their makeup? Can you have two gentle giants on your team and bring the kind of quote unquote alpha energy that high level playoff basketball winning requires? And that’s a fair question. It’s part of the bigger overarching two bigs question that hovers over this team. Maybe we have a story idea here. In the early September we’ve the the Cavs two Bigs question is always centered around spacing and can the offense work well enough with both of them on the court together? There’s not that’s another part of this question, right? Is like, do they complement each other a little too well in this regard? Like did they have Jared Allen, Evan Moby having The other one kind of being the relaxed, chilled guy. Does that hurt them in the aggregate? I mean, it’s here now we’re having the basketball as a human conversation as opposed to basketball as a sports X’s and O’s. That’s one thought I just had while you were talking. Here’s the other one. Went through Jared Allen’s playoff game log from last year. He had five games with double digit rebounds last year. And rebounds is not the perfect end all be all indicator for energy, but it’s a pretty good one, right? Like if you’re getting a bunch of rebounds, you’re probably being pretty active on the court. And it just so happens that in all five of those games, Jared Allen was touching the ball a little bit more. Okay, 12 rebounds. Game four against the Pacers, Jared Allen took 11 shots, had eight free throw attempts. That’s 19 shooting possessions. It’s pretty good. That’s a good volume for big man. That was game three, game two, the game before. Jared Allen had 12 rebounds again, nine field goal attempts, eight free throws, 17 shooting possessions. Huh, that’s interesting. Game four against the Heat, 12 rebounds. Five. Five field goal attempts, four free throw attempts, nine shooting possessions, 10 rebounds. The game before that, nine field goal attempts, six free throw attempts, 11 rebounds. Game one against the Heat, eight field goal attempts, two free throw attempts. It’s five best rebounding games. At least four of them were his four highest shooting possession games. It’s not a coincidence. Not a coincidence. So I would argue this as well. As much as the Cavs need Evan Mobley and Jared Allen to summon this within themselves, there’s something you can do about this. When you see that they’re not bringing it, get them more touch. And by the way, it doesn’t have to be a shooting possession all the time. With Jared L in particular, him and Max Druce have one of the prettiest two man games, one of the most efficient two man games in the NBA. Just run a little game. Have Max Drew throw Jared Allen the ball and have him run a dho. Have Jared Allen roll hard to the rim, make him feel like he’s involved. You’d be surprised, you’d be surprised what can come out of that. And this is now. Now we’re having a global conversation now. Now we’re again talking about. Well, on the possessions where Jared Allen looks disengaged, how is Donovan Mitchell responding? At the other end, how is Darius Garling adjusting the offensive approach to maybe try to get Jared Alan Moore involved? What conversations are your leaders having with him. And I’m not, of course, Donovan Mitchell is having conversations with you guys all the time. And you know, I’m sure there were times we haven’t. I haven’t watched the Pacer series in a while, but I’m sure there were times where Donovan Mitchell recognized Jared Allen sort of lagging and then said, okay, I need to run a pick and pick and roll with Jared Allen or Kenny. By the way, can can help here, too. Oh, Jarrett’s lagging. Let’s get him a touch at the elbow. I mean, maybe it’s not. It might not be the most efficient player, but we’ve been talking for two years about Jared Allen’s evolution as a playmaker. Like, he’s a pretty good passer. Let him make some decisions. Especially like your offense wasn’t crushing it all the time in that series as you were doing it. So maybe we try something different and see what happens there. Like the diversity of. As much as the defense was a problem, the diversity or lack thereof in the Cavs offensive approach was also a problem. You can maybe kill two birds with one stone here and like, just do things purposefully that can try to change the vibe of a game or a player’s headspace. Everyone shares in this as much as we’re having. And by the way, Jared Allen, like, part of your job. We were talking about role players yesterday and now sometimes you just don’t know when you’re going to get the ball. This is part of your job, Jared Allen. You need to summon energy even when things aren’t going your way. For sure, that’s a fair criticism. But I also just think we’ve talked about that point to death. And so I’m trying to offer alternate solutions here. Like Jared Allen, number one, my favorite outcome for the Cav would be if Jared Allen just sucked it up and played and played with more energy all the time in the playoffs, even when, you know he hits a wall and Miles Turner swats the crap out of him, that would be great. That would be the preferred outcome. But we kind of have a long backlog of evidence that suggests that’s not always going to be the case. So how do you work with the situation you have and try to get more energy out of a guy that, you know, sometimes lacks it when. When times get tough in the playoffs?
Ethan Sands: Going back to the original question that you asked at the beginning of that statement, when you said, can the Cavs operate with two gentle giants in their front court as leaders? And my answer to that would be no. I have been banging the drum all summer that the Cavs have needed an enforcer. And to go back to my original point at the beginning of this podcast that Jared Allen cannot play between the lines. There’s no gray area for him, if you will, when it comes to being a nice guy off the court and then having an aggressive nature and taking names on the court. Right? So I do think there’s an example here and I’ve been saying his name a good amount this summer too. Stephen Adams is a great guy, a very nice guy and one that is respected around the NBA because if you mess with somebody on his team he is going to check you and if you do anything during a game for rebounding wise, he is going to box out, make it very difficult on you and may not get the rebound himself, but he is a deterring force in the painted area. I think the Cavs need an enforcer to make it simple. I think the Cavs need somebody on the inside that can not only bang bodies with players like Joel, like Giannis, like Nicola, but also can simply hold their own when it comes to a leadership role. Evan Mobley and Jared Allen haven’t shown me to this point that they can do that on a consistent basis when it matters, when it counts. And I’m not saying that the front court isn’t working because there’s evidence that it is. I’m talking about when it comes to playing against physical teams, playing against bigger opponents, playing against teams that have an understanding of how to break you mentally and then also physically. That’s where the Cavs need help on the front court. And that’s why I’ve been a big proponent of saying that they need to get a bigger or a stronger big and enforcing big either. After this season goes awry and the Cavs have to decide if they’re going away from Jared Allen and or Darius Garland or just for the 14th man roster spot. Sure there’s an opportunity to go get a wing of some sort, but also I think in the draft the Cavs could have gotten someone other than a drafting stash in Neang and get somebody that is off the boards. Currently that is more of an enforcing factor. I know this was a conversation for an earlier podcast this week, Jimmy, when we were talking about like the last two way spot. Basically at this point what you’re doing, trying to throw a fly out there, trying to see what’s available. The two players that come to mind just for me, just because I had talked about them, Victor Lockin went undrafted out of Clean Clemson and Vlad golden went undrafted. And those are two guys that I think can make an impact whether it’s on a G league team, whether it’s on a two way contract. But they’re two bigger players that if need be, could be developed into coming into the league at some point in the next two years. But Vlad golden is out of Michigan and he’s just a guy that I’ve had my eyes on for a little bit. It seems like he might have signed with the Heat, but still, who knows how long these contracts as G league players, as two way players will last. So keep an eye on that. But that’s just my thought process of this topic because I do not think having two soft spoken, nice guy, easygoing big men in today’s NBA, which is changing once again, is optimal for the success in the playoffs of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Jimmy Watkins: So I see your point. I mean, I raised it. There could be something there. But here’s the thing. If you were to say, okay, we gotta break these guys up, obviously if you’re picking one, you’re picking Evan Mobley. That’s gonna stay right. Like you have to choose Evan Mobley. The Cavs go as far as Evan Mobley’s development goes. So you gotta get rid of Jared Allen. You have to be careful with who you replace Jared Allen with. With whom you replace Jared Allen. I don’t know. Not, not having a good grammar morning. But when you lose Jared Allen, you are losing one of the best rim protectors in the NBA. You are losing one of the players who makes your defense or made your defense a superpower. And it’s one of the reasons why I still believe the Cavs can get back to that, that level of defense. So can’t. You can’t just get someone who’s gonna beat someone up for beating someone else sake, like Tristan Thompson just coming in for a couple minutes to push guys around or you know, get a flagrant foul that hopefully incites some energy in the Cavs and also costs you two points and the ball, I don’t see the value in that. Now if you can find a guy like you raised Stephen Adams, Steven Adams is a fine basketball player who also brings those qualities. Great Z. Artenstein for the Oklahoma City Thunder. He does a lot of Jared Allen things. He’s a good passer. He’s got, I mean, he’s got one of the best push shot floaters in the league. Jared Allen’s been honing that skill for the last couple years. He’s a great rim protector even if he’s not an awesome shot blocker, like, he’s great at being vertical and deterring guys in that way. I’d like that. If Oklahoma City Thunder decide in a couple of years, oh, our roster’s getting a little expensive and maybe we don’t have to pay a second starting caliber center, you know, upwards of 90 million or whatever they’re paying Isaiah over the. The life of that deal. That’s. That’s somebody I’d be down for the cabs to look at. But the other thing is with your. This team’s getting more expensive and so the replacement for Jared Allen probably can’t cost as much as Jared Allen. Right. And now, now we’re running into an issue of like, man, we’re looking for. We’re trying to check a lot of boxes here and maybe could the answer just be flip this whole podcast unsadd. What if the answer is Evan Mobley does all the things that you want Jared Allen to do eventually? Like Evan Mobley is the guy who stays locked in all the time. Evan Mobley is the guy who sets the tone on Evan. Evan Mobley is the guy who finds his voice as a, as a leader and a defensive communicator. Because hovering overall this team, of course, as we keep talking about, is the second apron. And I’m thinking about, okay, we want someone who’s. We need to replace Jared Allen because him and Evan Moby don’t compliment each other personality wise. Okay, all right, I, I can accept that premise. But now we need someone who does that and can still replicate, let’s say, 70% of the things that Jared Allen does on the court. Okay, that’s harder. And then we need someone who has the personality, replicates a lot of what Jared Allen does on the court and fits into the Cavs extremely tight budget. Like, that person might just not exist. Like the, the perfect matches might not exist. Or to your point, Ethan, maybe it’s a dart throw that you have to hit a bullseye on in the draft over the next couple of years. That’s possible. I mean, there are. I feel like the traditional non shooting big man. His draft stock is kind of dropping these days. Oh, cool. You rebound and you’re tall. What else do you do? That’s kind of what we’re asking about draft prospects, you know. Oh, you. You protect the rim. Well, can you also move your feet? That’s just where the game’s going. Multi talent, multifaceted. You know, maybe you can find a traditional big who does enough of the Jared Allen Rent protection stuff that you’re like, okay, yeah, I could, I could see the vision here. But that’s, that might be where it has to come from. Otherwise you might just need Evan Mobley to do something more. And then in a couple years, we’ll be having a podcast like this in September about, like, is Evan Mobley tough enough for this to, for this to work? I don’t, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a tough situation. The Cavs are, in many ways they’re, they feel like they have built the right team, but obviously the playoff results are there and now they’re looking around and they don’t have too many avenues left for improvement. So that when we start talking about, well, this doesn’t work and this doesn’t work, this is where it gets tricky because, okay, great, we’ve done, we’ve done what is kind of the easy part, which is identifying what doesn’t work. The hard part is fixing it under the rules that we’re playing under.
Ethan Sands: Jimmy, I do think Evan Mobley is the answer to a lot of the Cavs questions, and I think that’s a well orchestrated point on your end. I don’t know if he needs to have a Giannis built like we’ve talked about the Giannis archetype so much on this podcast. For Evan Mobley’s comparison at this stage of his career, I’m looking at him more as a Kevin Durant space the floor stretch the floor type of big than a Giannis type big, because sure, you can get to the rim, but are you, are you bulky enough to be able to hold your own in that capacity or as Giannis had to do, as Giannis had to learn to play that type of style, you got to put on £50 to be able to do that in muscle capacity. I don’t know if Evan Mobley, his playstyle might warrant him staying in the body type that he has currently. And that also goes along with what the Cavs want him to do. I don’t know if you want him bulking up and then trying to continue his growth as a three point shooter, that would be the decision that the Cavs would have to make and Evan Mobley would have to make in where your career is going. And if you put on mass, then your game is going to be more attacking the rim. But if you want to be a free flowing, stretch four man for the rest of your career, potentially stay with what you got and keep working on the attributes and the skills that are necessary to do so. But I don’t know if the Cavs are ready to have that conversation.
Jimmy Watkins: 1. I won’t spend the time. I think Evan Mowbray has a much better chance of imitating what Giannis does as a basketball player than he does at what Kevin. Kevin Durant’s one of one. He’s one of the greatest shooters ever, period, who just happens to be 7ft tall. I don’t think Evan Moby is ever going to be that level of shooter. The signs that we’ve seen so far are encouraging. I’m keeping my eye on this year to see if they keep up. I have a very skeptical eye, as we know, and I’m with. Talking about shooting. You need to show me a lot before I trust it to that level. Last year was great. Let’s see if we can keep doing it. I was also. I was more talking about. Evan Mobley needs to adopt Giannis’s mannerisms and mentality. Like, will he ever. Will he ever have shoulders and biceps that look like Giannis? No. Giannis is a freak. That’s not. That’s not a knock against anybody. If you don’t look like Giannis, that just means you are human, okay? And most of us are. So they call him a Greek freak for a reason. That’s a hard body to maintain, and the way he moves at that size is unbelievable. He’s one of the greatest players we’ve ever seen. But, like, if we’re talking about toughness and alpha mentality and all of these buzzwords that we. That we think that the Cavs are missing, I mean, part of this gets. Evidently, fake it till you make it. Like, seriously, if I’m Kenny Atkinson and the Cavs coaching staff, I am putting together a. A cut of video that is just Giannis leading the clip of Giannis in the playoffs, you know, smacking his hand. I think it might have been during the final series, like, breathing life into his team. Intense showing, intensity, yelling. All this. All the stuff that I would make fun of Russell Westbrook for doing because I think he’s fake mama mentality. But yet the stuff that comes out of Giannis authentically. And you know what? Maybe this is a conversation where you can’t fake it till you make a no. Needs to be authentic for you to do it. But we gotta do something. We gotta do something about this. This issue that is pervasive across the roster. And if it’s gonna start with the big men and we have kind of landed here that, well, we. At the very least, we need Adam Moby to try this stuff as, as much as Jared Allen. I think Giannis is a great example of the kind of energy that we’re looking for these guys to play with. So watch him, imitate him. Just, just try things. Just try things. Because what, what has been happening what, what they’ve been trying to this point and getting it done.
Ethan Sands: And with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. If you want to get a shout out on the podcast, you want to have your questions answered on the show, this is where you can send in all of your thoughts and questions for us to discuss on the podcast. To do so, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around. This is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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