CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins discuss the career of Cavs star Donovan Mitchell as he turns 29, concluding that the next two seasons are pivotal for Mitchell’s legacy and the future of the Cavaliers franchise.
Takeaways:
1. Donovan Mitchell’s Career Accomplishments
Donovan Mitchell, now 29 years old, has established himself as one of the NBA’s elite players with impressive credentials including being a two-time All-NBA player (first team last year, second team in 2023), a six-time All-Star, an NBA Slam Dunk champion, and making the All-Rookie First team. He signed one of the most important extensions in Cavaliers franchise history last offseason, cementing his commitment to Cleveland despite previous rumors about his potential departure.
2. Mitchell’s Playoff Record and Career Pattern
Throughout his eight-year NBA career, Mitchell has made the playoffs every season, which is a remarkable achievement. However, despite his individual success, he has never advanced beyond the second round of the playoffs in either conference. This pattern has become a defining aspect of his career narrative, with questions emerging about whether he can be the primary star on a championship-caliber team or if he’s better suited as an elite second option.
3. Contract Situation and Future Decisions
Mitchell signed a three-year extension with a player option after the 2026-2027 season, which will be his age-30 season. After that point, he will have accrued 10 years of NBA service, making him eligible for a five-year extension worth more than $380 million in 2027. This timing creates a strategic situation where Mitchell could hold off on sign another extension before reaching that 10-year mark, giving him leverage but also creating uncertainty for the Cavaliers organization.
4. The Carmelo Anthony Comparison
Jimmy Watkins compared Mitchell’s career trajectory to Carmelo Anthony - a Hall of Famer with impressive individual statistics who only advanced past the first round of the playoffs twice in 13 playoff appearances. Like Anthony, Mitchell has accumulated impressive individual accolades but hasn’t translated that into deep playoff success. This comparison raises questions about Mitchell’s legacy if his career continues on its current path.
5. Mitchell’s Playoff Performance
Mitchell has consistently been the Cavaliers’ best playoff performer, including scoring 89 points combined in Games 6 and 7 against the Orlando Magic (second most in NBA postseason history for those games) and scoring 71 points in an overtime win against the Chicago Bulls in the regular season to add to his list of feats. However, questions remain about his ability to elevate his team in crucial moments, with the hosts noting that unlike some other superstars, when Mitchell tries to take over games, the results haven’t consistently led to victories.
6. The Evan Mobley Factor
The discussion highlighted the importance of Evan Mobley’s development to Mitchell’s future with the Cavaliers. The hosts suggested that for the Cavaliers to reach championship contention, Mobley needs to develop into the team’s best overall player, even if Mitchell remains the primary scorer. This dynamic creates a situation where Mitchell may need to accept a different role than he envisions for himself to achieve team success.
7. The Eastern Conference Opportunity
With significant injuries to key players on competing teams (including Tyrese Haliburton and Jayson Tatum being out with torn Achilles), the hosts emphasized that the Eastern Conference is more attainable this season than it has been in years. This creates heightened expectations for the Cavaliers and Mitchell, with the hosts suggesting that making the NBA Finals should be the minimum expectation given the current competitive landscape.
8. Mitchell’s Hall of Fame Trajectory
Despite playoff shortcomings, the hosts agreed that Mitchell is likely on track for the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame based on his individual accomplishments. They compared him to Hall of Famers like Mitch Richmond. While Mitchell appears destined for the Hall regardless, his legacy will be significantly shaped by whether he can lead a team to championship contention.
9. The $380 Million Question
The hosts raised important questions about whether the Cavaliers should offer Mitchell a maximum contract extension (potentially worth $380 million over five years) when he becomes eligible. They noted that such massive contracts for players entering their 30s carry significant risk, as the physical decline that typically occurs during those years could leave the team hamstrung financially. This creates a complex negotiation scenario where Mitchell’s desire for maximum compensation must be balanced against the team’s long-term flexibility.
10. The Next Two Years Are Critical
Both hosts emphasized that the next two seasons represent the most pivotal period of Mitchell’s career, as they will likely determine whether he can elevate himself into the upper echelon of NBA stars who lead championship teams. At 29, Mitchell is in his prime, but that window won’t remain open indefinitely, particularly for smaller guards whose physical skills tend to decline earlier. How Mitchell performs during this critical period will shape not only his legacy but also the Cavaliers’ evaluation of their decision to trade for him.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, Jimmy Watkins. And we’re here today to talk about Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell just had a birthday turning 29 years old. He’s entering yet another season with the Cleveland Cavaliers. As we know, he signed an extension last offseason. One of the biggest extensions in Cavs franchise history. When it comes to importance for the franchise, when it comes to importance for the organization, especially when there was so many rumors around Donovan Mitchell and whether or not he would stay stay in Cleveland for the long haul, well, he’s still here and he’s still putting up numbers and doing what he’s wanted to do, except for in the playoffs. So at age 29, Donovan Mitchell is a two time All NBA player, being first team for the first time last year and then second team in 2023. He also is a six time All Star and NBA slam dunk champion and was on the all rookie team for his rookie season years ago. Jimmy, I want to start with the accomplishments and what Donovan Mitchell has accomplished this far. What have you seen from him that makes you think that he is a top 15 player in the NBA? And do you think that he could potentially be a top 10 player in the league this year, especially with the injuries around the league changing the narrative for some of these teams and some of these players?
Jimmy Watkins: Well, what we’ve seen, we’ve seen from Donovan from the moment he’s stepped in the league is that he can be the head of the Snake on offense. His rookie season, Donovan was taking 17 shots a game, scoring 20 points a game, 33 minutes a game for a Utah team that made the playoffs. There’s kind of two ways to frame Donovan’s career to this point. Most guys who get drafted in lottery late, lottery is a little bit different. But most guys who get drafted in lottery toil away a little bit early in their career, especially if they’re being asked to handle a lot of offensive responsibility and lead the charge, so to speak, they lose, they lose early in their career. And Donovan found himself in a unique circumstance. You can’t give him all the credit. The Rudy Go Bears of the world, the Evan Mobleys of the world, these teams that he’s been on have done a good job building defensive infrastructures around him. Although eventually Utah’s defensive structure was kind of just Rudy Gobert and then it fell apart. That is not nothing for Donovan to have made the playoffs every year of his career. To have Ben immediately handed a primary scoring role and handled it the way he has is very impressive. The way he’s matured as a leader here in Cleveland, which sometimes means letting go of the reins. And we talked a lot about how he’s still learning how to do that 100%, but he’s trending in the right, right direction there. He’s had his two best assist seasons last few years. I actually thought last year, which was statistically he had, he had fewer assists per game. I thought last year he took some real steps as a, as a playmaker toward the end of the season. Making next level reads, things of that nature. When he, he, when you take a step back, you find other ways to, to impact the game, right? Top 10 player, sure. Would Donovan want to be top 10 player by default? Like, I think Donovan really wants to take a real leap. It’s not about what he’s doing on the court though. Other superstars, the assist tallies could be higher. The. I think I did some research last year about, you know, last, last year was the first year Don finished top five in mvp. To that point he had not. And I was trying to figure out why that was this time last season, like during the preseason last year. And it basically came down to back like 10 years. And basically all the guys who had been top five in the MVP were either, they were either high volume assist guys where they were all defense guys, or defensive play. They get like it’s a defensive player of the year vote, something like that. So maybe there’s, there’s still room for more engagement at, at that end. Coming out of Louisville, he was, he had a defensive reputation. And some of that’s just because Louisville presses a lot and Donovan’s an extremely well conditioned athlete. The demands of defense in the NBA are a little bit different, particularly when you have the ball as much as he does. And he will have it even more to start the season with the Darius Garland injury. But yeah, the next step is what he always says. And it’s not really that interesting. It’s just that when do you take the next step as a winner? Because as Sterling has, his resume appears. You know, look at his basketball reference page. You got six All Star teams, two All MBAs, make the playoffs every year, 20 points a game every year, 53% effective field goal percentage for the kind of guys that takes the shots that he takes. That’s all very impressive, but you’ve never been out of the second round. And this is where legacies are made. We’ve had this conversation on this podcast a dozen times. We’ve had this conversation with Donovan Mitchell a dozen times. That’s kind of where it stands. And as you reach this in 29, 30, you’re kind of at the, you’re at the peak of your powers, but you. That peak is not very long, particularly for smaller guards. And so we’re kind of at a real crossroads here for Donovan. Like, are you going to become one of these Capital G guys or what? And that’s crucial. That’s crucial. We’re at a very interesting point in his career.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. And one of the most interesting points about Donovan Mitchell’s career at this juncture is his contract. Right. Because as we know, he signed a three year extension with a player option after the 2023, 2024 season. Donovan Mitchell signed that extension. So he is on contract until after the 2026, 2027 year. Right. So that’ll be his year 30 season. After that, he will also have 10 years of accrued service and he will have a player option for the 2027, 2028 season. But we all know that Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers will be trying to work out an extension before then, so that the Cavs are not shaking in their boots when it comes to their star players availability on the roster in years to come. There’s two sides of this. One, the understanding that it is unlikely that Donovan Mitchell signs an extension with the Cavs before getting his 10th year of accrued service. Why? Because. Because it allows him to pursue a five year extension worth more than $380 million in 2027. The other portion of this is if Donovan Mitchell does not believe that this Cavs roster, which could change this season, next season, who knows. But if this Cavs roster that he is currently a part of is not capable of helping him get out of the Eastern Conference semifinals, Eastern Conference finals, to the NBA Finals, which we know is the ultimate goal, especially in this coming season with the Eastern Conference so wide open, as wide open as it has been, that Donovan Mitchell could. Could choose to go somewhere else if he does not deem the Cavs the best fit for him to win a championship. Because we did talk about the individual accolades, but as Jimmy mentioned, he has not been out of the Eastern Conference semifinals or the Western Conference semifinals in his entire career. And Donovan Mitchell has been to the playoffs eight times in his eight year career career. Right. So when we talk about how Donovan Mitchell perceives himself, it’s getting to the point where individual accolades are cool, but team accolades the chip narrative comes to play for Donovan Mitchell and how he wants to be remembered because the 20 points a game a year is nice. But what about that says Legacy? It’s a precarious situation that the Cavs are in. Does Donovan believe that maybe it might be better off for him to take a smaller contract like Jalen Brunson to allow the Cavs organization to bring in more help? Chris always says it’s a player’s league, right? The power of this situation is solely in the hands of Donovan Mitchell. Don’t want to sign an extension? Cool. That’s up to you. Don’t want to sign the player option? Cool. Want to sign the biggest contract that you’ve ever had? Makes sense, right? But is that indicative of what you believe as a player is going to help you have the most success? I don’t know if those two are the same thing, Jimmy, especially with the roster constructed the way it is and max Struz and DeAndre Hunter’s contract coming to an end in the next two years. Again, as I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, how pivotal, how important it was for Donovan to resign with the Cavs after all the rumors that he didn’t want to be in Cleveland. This next decision is not only going to shape his career, but it’s going to shape the franchise orientation of the decision that they made years ago to trade for Donovan Mitchell and what it did to their roster, what it did to their draft capital and how this is going to change their future. Because as you mentioned, Jimmy, Evan Mobley still isn’t there yet. But can these next two years be the time that Evan Mobley needed to catch up? If not, we’re having a different conversation when it comes to Donovan Mitchell.
Jimmy Watkins: I’m going to have a different one right now. I don’t think think that the by the time that contract extension, if we wait until two years from now to have it, which would be, you know, which will probably happen but will be messy. I don’t know that Donovan Mitchell holds all the power in that. In that conversation, two things. Two things. Let’s start by saying this. The the NBA counts few Tom Brady’s who are willing to take significant discounts to help their team’s cap sheet to help them win. By the way, it didn’t even really work out for Tom Brady. Tom Brady was taking less money all these years on the Patriots to save the Patriots money and they still never really paid up for a receiver. They had Randy Moss for a couple years. It was glorious. They broke open the record books. And then he was throwing the dudes that looked like me for the rest of his career. And by the way, hey, look, he still won seven Super Bowls. He’s the greatest quarterback of all time. But I’m just saying, most NBA dudes take their money and more power to them. But the question to me is as much, sure. Does Donovan want to extend here? That’s a big question. Do you, the Cavs want to give him all that money at that point? If he’s going to be 31 by then, we’re approaching it. Talking five year max. Even four year max. Maybe four year max. You’re feeling okay because by the end of he’s 35. Like, these salaries are becoming exorbitant. Donovan’s going to be eligible for, I don’t know the exact numbers.
Ethan Sands: Five years, 380 million.
Jimmy Watkins: Like what? That’s almost 80 million a year. If you miss on a contract like that, that window, 31 to 30, whatever, early to mid-30s is when the drop off usually comes. If you miss on that, you’re screwed. Like, you can close a championship window abruptly right there. Evan Mobley’s going to be hitting his prime. And I love Don and I think he takes great care of his body. He’s all about all of the right things. Father times, undefeated, these. This is going to be a very tricky negotiation for the Cavs. I think if Donovan came to them and said, hey, I’d love to sign a short term extension, the Cavs would do backflips because it would take a lot of awkward tension out of the air. Cannot be overstated. How important it is for you to be absolutely sure that someone you’re paying $80 million a year is worth or close to it, even if it’s late. Prime Donovan and there’s some slippage. Cool. But if, if the big drop happens over the life of that contract, then we have another scary conference. Was the championship window ever even open? Because right now you haven’t been out in the second round. Presumably you have. Donovan’s resigning here. They will have done that. They will have accomplished that goal by then. But not a blank check. The Cats are not going to say, here, Donovan, here’s everything you’ve ever wanted. And he’ll just say, okay, and then he’ll fill in the blank. I don’t think it’s going to be that simple. Especially with the second leap we are anticipating from Evan Mobley, potential growth from Darius Garland. The first one was, everyone cross your fingers. Hope Donovan Mitchell deems us worthy I don’t know that this second one is going to be that.
Ethan Sands: I would disagree with you just because of what we’ve seen playoff wise from everybody else on the roster to this point.
Jimmy Watkins: We got two more years of stuff to see. And it’s not about what I’m seeing today when we’re talking about these contract extensions. It’s what am I going to see in three years. That’s like, that’s how they have to be thinking about this. That’s how they’re going to be thinking about this. And I think if Donovan says I want all the money in all the years, which again, most NBA players do, and more power to them, go get your money. That’s complicated.
Ethan Sands: I just do think that what the Cavs have looked at and how without Donovan Mitchell, their playoff increase would have been none. Like obviously they were on the cusp of making it to the playoffs. They were a playing team before Donovan Mitchell got here. But as soon as Donovan Mitchell arrived, that conversation shifted. And even though it shifted and the expectations grew, Donovan Mitchell has been the only player to truly showcase himself in every game of the NBA playoffs when it comes to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Also just to remind folks, Mitchell had 89 points in game six and game seven of an opening round playoff series over the Orlando Magic, which is second most in NBA postseason history for game six and seven. Also not to mention that he had 71 points. Of course, we do have to mention that it was in an overtime win against the Chicago Bulls. But noting that he has shown and proven himself not only in the playoffs, but regular season games as well. And I’m curious to see how he monitors his body, especially knowing that he’s dealt with calf injuries over the last two playoffs and other injuries throughout the season. That’s the next question. What do you think Donovan Mitchell wants his legacy to be to this point in his career entering year 29? Trying to figure out what he is capable of and what this Cavs team is capable of and how he wants his journey to ultimately end. Even though it doesn’t seem like we’re nearing that conversation just yet.
Jimmy Watkins: He wants his legacy to be not this. Right? I think right now Donovan Mitchell is kind of like a Carmelo Anthony esque figure in the NBA. You know, let’s say we just cut the basketball reference page off right now. He’s made the playoffs every year. That’s nice. Mellow didn’t do that. I don’t know. If Mello made the playoffs eight times in his career, I’d have to double Check that. But he only won three playoff series his entire career. Donovan has already done that. But we kind of lump all these guys together who don’t. If you don’t make it ever make it to the big stage, we kind of just put you over here in one big bucket, and we throw out a lot of con. The context, because quite frankly, a lot of the great players overcome their context. And it’s not like Donovan Mitchell has had crippling supporting cast. Now he hasn’t had perfect ones. Okay. In Utah, they didn’t ever really have that legitimate secondary scorer. Or maybe, as it turns out, Donovan might need an actual primary guy. The question going forward the next couple years, is going to be, is Donovan actually a number one guy, or is he one of the best number two guys you could possibly have? Cavs fans have been through this with Kyrie Irving before. We kind of got our answer on Kyrie Irving. Best served as a really, really high end over qualified number two guy. We’ll see with Donvan in Cleveland. It’s no question that this. This is. This is a really interesting juxtaposition. It’s no question at this point that the Cavs playoff failures have fallen more on the Cavs supporting cast than it has on Donovan Mitchell, though Donovan Mitchell has not always been perfect in these playoff series either. He would tell you that he wasn’t great in the next series either. He was hurt against Boston. He sort of ran out of gas against the Pacers, and we’ve had questions about his approach to that series. Should. Should he have been forcing the issue as much as he has? Right. But the reason he was doing that is because he didn’t think that the supporting cast was bringing it. And I can’t fault him for thinking that because, you know, we. We all have eyes. He. He has come closer to meeting these moments than any of his teammates. Right. At the same time, if the Cavs were forced to make a decision right now, would you rather have Donovan Mitchell or would you rather have the rest of the Core 4 the next five years? It’s not even close. They would take the rest of the core four, and if Evan Mobley. Donovan Mitchell, straight up, they’d probably take Evan Mobley. So we’re getting to a really weird point with Donovan Mitchell where, like, we have a lot of evidence to suggest you can’t be the best player on a championship team. I don’t think that’s all fair. I think that that. That question is still open, but his legacy right now is. Is a complicated one. And Again, it’s not. It’s not the one you want. It’s basically nice stats, nice accolades, but what did it all lead to? And we. And we know that’s not how anybody. And Donovan has verbalized this a bunch since he’s been here. That is not how he wants to be remembered. So there’s a lot of. For hopefully for his sake, a lot to still to be written about his career.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, that’s the hope. Right. And obviously the next question gets into that a little bit further. Jimmy, what does he. And what do the Cavs need to accomplish for him to feel one, capable of staying in Cleveland and two, that he has done what he needed to do by the age of 30. And to me, I think you have to go to the NBA Finals and I think Donovan Mitchell personally has to continue to be in the MVP conversation, add a couple more all NBA teams and obviously a couple more all Stars to his ledger. So that would mean at that point it’ll be eight all Stars for all NBA selections and potentially another top five finish in MVP voting. With a potential NBA championship under your belt, I feel like that’s where Donovan Mitchell sees himself in the next two seasons and especially this coming year. Understanding one, of course you’re going to start the year without Max Truth and likely without Darius Garland, but how important this season is going to be to the narrative that’s written about him and the topic that you got into slightly there, Jimmy, which is are you capable of being a number one guy or are you a hyper number two guy that’s still a top 10 player in the league, which seems crazy to me. Or does that change the narrative about where you stand in the league rankings? But first, Jimmy, what do you think Donovan Mitchell needs to accomplish in the next two seasons to feel like he can stay in the winding gold and also feel accomplished with his career thus far?
Jimmy Watkins: I think that’s easy. I think that’s make the finals at least this year, this year in particular, because. Because the east is never going to be more attainable than it is this year. I think you take whatever your expectations were to begin with and ratchet them up a notch. I think this time last year, conference finals was the goal. I mean, championship’s always the goal. But I think if the Cavs had made the conference finals last year and gave Boston or New York or Indiana, whoever they saw there, a good series, Donovan would have felt pretty good about where this team was headed. Now, you take two of those teams out, essentially because Tyrese and Jason Tatum are are out for the year. There’s no excuse not to make the Finals. I was going to say the Cavs are in a different tier than the next. I guess they’re in a similar tier, but based on the last regular season in April, I don’t think you would. You know, I don’t think the Knicks would have been the team that the Cavs were worried about playing. Obviously, then the playoffs happen. You get reminded, oh, the Cavs can’t say that about anybody. And now we reset here. But there’s basically one we’ll see about the Hawks, we’ll see about the Magic, we’ll see about some of these other teams. But the Cavs should be the clear favorites if we trust them at all. We trust them at all to replicate their regular season performance or approach it in the playoffs. They should be clear favorites to win the east this year. And if you don’t pull that off this year, we’re at the, we’re also at the point now where this supporting cast with this team at large. How many times can you keep saying the same things in postseason press conferences before we just expect this to be who you are? How many times can we talk about toughness, mental or physical overcoming adversity? Why isn’t our regular season performance translated into the playoffs? You know, playoff basketball is different from regular season basketball. We’re still learning that. It’s been three years. I’ve said this before. At a certain point, you either get it or you don’t. You’re either a playoff performer or you don’t. Oklahoma City Thunder, a lot of those guys were making their second playoff run this year and a lot of the other guys are younger than the Cats. They just get it. They, they’re playoff warriors. There’s some inconsistencies, but when the chips are down, they have a guy. And Shay Gilder Alexander says, all right, I’ll just do it when chips are down. J Dub had moments in this playoffs where he’s just like, all right, I’ll give you 40 in the finals. The consistency of Shay Gelges Alexander in the playoffs and I think the consistency of approach from Shea Gelge’s Alexander, that’s a difference between Shea and Donovan Mitchell also. And I don’t, I know we don’t like talking about this. There’s also about 2 or 3 inch difference in size between Shake Eliz Alexander and Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Williams and Darius Garland. Similar thing there Don’s a weird point in his career where he’s at the most pivotal point, his legacy Hinges on these next two to three years, wherever he spends them. Like, once you’re 32, 33, most guys don’t break through as a, as a lead guy by then. Like, if Donovan gets to the point where he’s 33, he’s probably going to be the second best player on his team. So he’s at this point where so much is riding on these next couple seasons. At the same time, how much control does he have? Like, he’s kind of waiting on Evan Mobley saying, come on, catch up. Darius Garland, come on, catch up. Jerd Allen, stay engaged, please. Come on, catch up. Here’s the question now, if that’s where you are, if you can’t just grab a series by the reins and win it, are you the guy that Donovan wants to beat? I think that’s a fair question. Like when LeBron James tries, tries to do what Donovan Mitchell tried to do in that pacer series Prime, LeBron James was like, all right, I’m just going to take this game over. The game was over. LeBron won it. When Luka Doncic tries to do the game’s over. Okay, when Shay does that, a lot of times the game’s over. We, we don’t really have as much of that evidence with Donovan Mitchell. I mean, we put 50 against the magic a couple years ago. They lost to the Magic. Bunch of first time playoff guys out there. Again, not, it’s not his fault. Can’t blame a guy for scoring 50 and a loss. But it’s just like kind of teetering here. We’re kind of teetering here between, you know, question still, is, is Donovan the guy that he wants to be or is he just a touch blow? By the way, there’d be no shame in that. There’d be no shame in that. Carmelo Anthony just made the hall of Fame last weekend. Dwight Howard just made the hall of Fame last weekend. Howard won one ring playing like 12 minutes a game for the Lakers. But that would be a fine career in and of itself. It wouldn’t fulfill Donovan, and that’s why, that’s why we’re at such a crucial point right now.
Ethan Sands: Jimmy, you mentioned Carmelo Anthony. I think that’s a really good comparison. I did want to correct you for a second. Carmelo had 13 appearances in the playoffs. A good chunk with the Denver Nuggets, three with the New York Knicks, one with the OKC Thunder, and then two with the Portland Trailblazers.
Jimmy Watkins: Those last few don’t count. I’m sorry. Carmelo was like the eighth, ninth man, on those teams they don’t count.
Ethan Sands: But to my point, he just got inducted into the Hoop hall of Fame. And I think that is obviously every player’s goal when it comes to how they want to be perceived for their career. Right? The other players that got inducted into the Hoops hall of Fame this past weekend, Dwight Howard, Sue Bird, Maya Moore, Sylvia Fowles, and then the 2008 U.S. olympic men’s team, which marked LeBron James and Chris Paul becoming the first two active players to make it into the Naismith Basketball hall of Fame. And every player envisions himself in a gold jacket. The question is what does Donovan Mitchell need to do at this point in his career to be in those categories? And how close do you think he is at this point?
Jimmy Watkins: He’s pretty close already. Especially given and this is not Hawkins. I think Donovan would be pretty close right now. He’s at the very least would be on trajectory to make an NBA hall of Fame if that existed. Unfortunately it doesn’t. We have a Basketball hall of Fame which means we get a lot of dudes in the hall of Fame that maybe don’t deserve to be in the hall of Fame. One of the examples ironically, Mitch Richmond who made six all star teams, five time all NBA, never a first team guy. One rookie of the year, he won a title as a very, very late in his career as like sort of a ring chasing deal with the Kobe Shack Lakers. He’s kind of one of the poster children for this guy. Wouldn’t be in the NBA if it was an NBA hall of Fame. He’s number two on Donovan Mitchell’s basketball reference similarity score right now, which is not a perfect measure by any means. Basically Basketball Reference takes this win shares stat. I could not tell you what the formula is for win shares but it takes win shares, adds them up and finds other people with similar all in one counting stats. Just want to review. I’ve said many things, many nice things about Donovan Mitchell on this podcast. I think he’s going to be a Basketball hall of Famer. I think He’s a top 15 player in the NBA. These are all great things. Now three years of Donovan Mitchell’s career we got Norm Nixon who was a precursor to. He was on the Showtime Lakers before they were the Showtime Lakers. That’s what he’s best known for. Two time all star and he was at the beginning of. He won two titles with the Lakers, that’s number one. And he was a nice scoring guard in the 80s. Then we have Mitch Richmond as Previously mentioned. Other highlights on this list. Stephon Marbury, not known for winning. Michael Finley role player Dennis Johnson is interesting. Kind of like one of the best role players of all time was on the 8 or 6 Celtics, was Finals MVP before he made it to the Celtics with the Seattle SuperSonics. That’s an interesting arc. I mean, I think Donovan Mitchell, to, to be clear, is a better, better player than all of these guys. His stats, particularly scoring the ball, blow them all out of the water. At the end. We have Alvin Robertson and Wesley Matthews and it’s just interesting to me. Again, this is not a perfect measure. The high end outcome for a lot of these guys that are on Jonathan Mitchell’s similarity score are like really nice complimentary stars and not head of the snake stars. It’s like basically what happens if Norm Nixon had his own team with a sound defensive infrastructure that could stack regular season wins? What happens if Mitch Richmond had his own team? Again, Donovan Mitchell is better than these players, considerably better. But I, I’m using this as sort of a way to like encapsulate the point I’ve been making the entire time, which is, is Donovan Mitchell the guy that he sees himself, as you mentioned, he sees himself in a Hall of Fame jacket. Well, that’s gonna happen. He also sees himself holding the Larry Ryan trophy. That’s probably what he sees first and foremost. To get there, he might have to recognize that he’s not the guy that he thinks he is. That’s a really, really, really hard thing to come to grips with. You can see him struggling with it in real time in the Indiana Pacer series. All right, EV’s being a little passive. Darius Garland’s hurt. EV’s hurt too. I’m going to go do it. I’m going to go shoot 30 shots. Didn’t work out. What’s the reinvention on your end? What more can Donovan Mitchell do? What if. What more can Donovan Mitchell can do is do less? How does that hit you? What if it’s accept the lesser role? How’s that hit you? There’s a guy who two years ago said he wants to be one of the bases of the league. I think that ship has sailed. Frankly, we’re kind of done with that. Particularly if we all acknowledge that the Cavs are going to win the title. Evan Love is going to be their best player. Maybe not necessarily their leading scorer, but their best player. I feel more confident in that statement than I ever have before. And if you’re president of Don Mitchell fan club, this may sound Like a criticism. It’s not. It’s not being the second best player on a championship team. And by the way, if the Cavs were to win a championship, it would be a real nuanced conversation about who’s the best player, because, trust me, Donovan would still be the leading scorer. He would still be taking the most shots. But there’s going to have to be another step in the Evan Mobili empowerment project and a recognition that when the chips are down in the playoffs, there’s gotta be another answer for Donovan Mitchell other than, okay, I take the shots now. And I think that’s part. That’s part of his evolution as a superstar. Another question, is he a superstar? Where do you stop throwing that label? He is right on the cusp of all of this stuff. He’s like, right, star, superstar, top 15, top 10 player. The way we evaluate those things, he’s clearly on the star, not superstar side. To me, top 15, top 10. To me, one top five MVP finish. I mean, that’s a really good. We didn’t talk about that. That’s a really good barometer. Carmelo Anthony finished top five in the MVP one time. What if that’s where Donovan’s going? And if that’s where he’s going, still great hall of Fame, but everyone wants to be Carmelo Anthony on the stat sheet. But you want to be Carmelo Anthony who won more games, right? Who won more playoff series. And we’ll see.
Ethan Sands: One of the reasons why I really like that comparison between Carmelo and Donovan Mitchell is because Carmelo Anthony only got out of the first round of the playoffs twice with the Denver Nuggets in 2008, 2009, and with the New York Knicks in 2012, 2013. And that was in 13 different appearances in.
Jimmy Watkins: Made the conference finals, though. Made the conference finals, though.
Ethan Sands: He sure did. But I think we’re getting to that point where Donovan is going to have to push his narrative. And obviously the main difference between Carmelo and Donovan, one is Team USA success and two, just cultural impact, especially in New York, especially in Denver, and what he means to the game of basketball. But Donovan Mitchell is a guy that also impacts culture to a different level. And it’s interesting to see how his career is going to shape itself when it comes to the next two years, because I don’t know if there’s been a time for a player that has meant more than these next two seasons for Donovan Mitchell’s career. And again, tied with that the Cleveland Cavaliers decision and how their franchise is going to look back on their decision to trade for Donovan Mitchell and what that has meant for this organization. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing. Subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word style. It’s easy. We can tell you as the people who sign up, stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the cast from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your our podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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