CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins delve into the team’s defense, concluding that a return to a top-tier defensive identity relies on both player effort and, more importantly, a top-down organizational philosophy that prioritizes defensive-minded lineups and personnel.
Takeaways:
1. Developing Mental Toughness in Players
The hosts discussed how to develop a more aggressive, physical mindset in the Cavaliers’ frontcourt players. They highlighted Victor Wembanyama’s approach of working with legends like Hakeem Olajuwon, Kevin Garnett, and even Shaolin monks to develop different aspects of his game. For “soft-spoken” players like Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, they suggested either embracing their quiet nature by learning from Tim Duncan or developing a more aggressive mentality by training with intense competitors like Kevin Garnett.
2. Different Teaching Styles for Different Players
Jimmy emphasized that learning and teaching styles matter significantly in player development. He contrasted Kenny Atkinson’s gentler, constructive approach to coaching Evan Mobley with Kevin Garnett’s potential blunt, direct style that might include colorful language and harsh truths. The hosts discussed how coaches must adjust their teaching methods based on how individual players learn and respond, noting that Atkinson has done a good job treating each player individually.
3. Ideal Mentors for Cavaliers’ Big Men
For Evan Mobley specifically, Jimmy suggested Kevin Garnett would be a better mentor than Tim Duncan, arguing that Mobley already possesses many Duncan-like qualities but needs Garnett’s fire and intensity. Ethan even offered Dirk Nowitzki as a potential mentor that could be seen as a middle ground between Duncan and Garnett. For Jarrett Allen, Ethan recommended Pau Gasol as an ideal mentor - someone who understood his role perfectly, had championship experience with Kobe Bryant, and knew when to show occasional flair while maintaining consistency in his role.
4. Balance Between Effort and Schemes in Defense
When addressing what makes a top defense, the hosts emphasized that both player effort and coaching schemes are equally important. They explained that defensive effort can only go so far without proper schemes, while even the best schemes fail without player effort. They highlighted the importance of players being able to adjust defensive sets in real-time based on what’s happening in the game, noting that a top-five NBA defense requires players who can make adjustments on the fly.
5. Coaching Philosophy Impacting Defensive Identity
Jimmy pointed out that coaching decisions significantly impact team defense, comparing J.B. Bickerstaff’s preference for defensive specialist Isaac Okoro with Kenny Atkinson’s tendency to play offensive-minded Sam Merrill. He noted that despite Kenny Atkinson claiming to prioritize defense, his lineup choices suggested otherwise, as the Cavaliers often fielded three “attackable” defensive players in their starting lineup (Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, and Max Strus).
6. Testing the Defensive “Cheat Code” Theory
The hosts discussed how last year’s Cavaliers seemed to test whether Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen were such defensive “cheat codes” that the team could surround them with weaker defenders. As the team reduced minutes for perimeter defenders like Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade, especially in the playoffs, the defense suffered noticeably against teams like the Pacers. This suggested limits to how much two elite rim protectors can compensate for perimeter defensive weaknesses.
7. Balancing Offense and Defense in Team Construction
The podcast highlighted the organizational shift toward defensive-minded acquisitions this offseason, including Lonzo Ball and Larry Nance Jr. They noted that Ball provides both offensive production (passing and off-ball movement) and perimeter defense, effectively replacing Isaac Okoro and Ty Jerome while addressing Kenny Atkinson’s concerns about offensive limitations. The hosts emphasized how a potential lineup featuring Ball, Mitchell, Wade, Mobley, and Allen would provide exceptional wingspan and defensive potential.
8. Kenny Atkinson’s Zone Defense Expertise
Contrary to having a designated defensive specialist on staff, the hosts suggested that head coach Kenny Atkinson himself serves as the team’s defensive expert, particularly regarding zone defense schemes. They described Atkinson as more of a delegator of development and game-planning responsibilities rather than someone who relies on specialized assistant coaches for defensive schemes, noting he brought one of the NBA’s most effective zone defenses from his time in Brooklyn.
9. The Curious Case of De’Andre Hunter
The hosts examined De’Andre Hunter’s limited playing time (career-low 25 minutes per game) after joining the Cavaliers, despite being touted as a versatile “one-through-five switchable defender.” They questioned why his defensive capabilities weren’t prioritized more, suggesting that concerns about his offensive rhythm and tendency to stop ball movement took precedence over his defensive tools. This case study further illustrated the team’s apparent prioritization of offensive flow over defensive potential.
10. Cavaliers’ Training Camp Schedule
The podcast concluded with information about the Cavaliers’ upcoming training camp, which will be held at IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida from September 30 through October 5, following media day on September 29. The team will then begin their four-game preseason schedule on October 7 against the Chicago Bulls at Rocket Arena, setting the stage for their 2025-2026 NBA season preparations.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today, Jimmy Watkins. And it’s time to get into questions that we receive from our Subtext subscribers who ask us questions weekly. And we give our blunt responses to all of them. Trying to get into the nuances of the Cleveland Cavaliers and ensuring that our fans, our listeners, our subscribers get the information to the questions that they have. And the only way you can get your questions answered is by subscribing to Subtext. 14 days free or 3.99amonth. The steal of a deal. And that comes especially with the opportunity to leave and come back at any time that you want. And you get to choose how you get your conversations and how you get your information on the Cleveland Cavaliers directly to your phone from some of the most knowledgeable ball knowers in the land. But we’re going to get directly into these questions. Jimmy in the first one comes from Chris in Lakewood, and I like this one. It’s a little long, but I like it a lot. Ethan I recently listened to one of the podcasts about whether the Cavs can succeed with a soft spoken front court. What I keep wondering is how do you train the kind of mind to be more aggressive, tone setting, physical play that y’ all keep talking about? Are there any established methods? Bring in a sports psychologist, send the team to a toughness guru, put them through simulated boot camp, give out steroids like candy. Is there anything the Cows can do to develop the playoff mindset rather than just hope it will emerge? Chris I think this is a good question because it is so difficult to think about what is necessary to be done for the Cavs to get to this level. And I think the best example is one of the youngest players in the NBA to date. Victor Wembanyama spent all summer going to different people, picking their brains, picking their skill sets, understanding what he needed to do to develop his game. Victor Wembanyama this summer worked out with Akeem Olajuwon, Kevin Garnett, Shaolin Monks, Jamal Crawford, you name it, Victor Wembanyama probably has done it. So yes, a sports psychologist for certain players is good. But there is no different teller than being able to immerse yourself into the minds of greats around the league who have shaped themselves as players who dominate. Especially when we talk about the front court in the painted area and what that means to their value and having these conversations like Victor, when Manyama has had, when it Comes to handles with Jamal Crawford, Hakeem Olajuwon’s protective defense in the painted area and the dream shake. Obviously Kevin Garnett, the art of smack talking, the art of defense, the art of the mid range game, all of these things. I think Victor Wembanyama this coming season is going to be one of the most dangerous players. Obviously he’s one of the most skilled players at 7 foot 4. But because of the work that he put in mentally and to learn this past off season, it is going to be a scary season for the NBA and I’m excited to see what he’s going to be able to do. But to answer your question, I think the Cavs simply need to have players around them or have the players that are in question to actually go and experience different things with players who have experience of a different mindset of a different caliber or if you are okay with them being soft spoken. Hey Tim Duncan, would you be willing to talk to Jared Allen and Evan Mobley about how you were successful? Tim Duncan, right, A quiet, soft spoken guy that was still a killer mentality and and would get you and small entities of the game. And I love the stories that Kevin Garnett tells about how he was like just so close, too far away. Like whatever happened in the minutia of the game that allowed Tim Duncan to overcome the smack talkers, to overcome all of these things in the NBA. He’s the blueprint. So if you need somebody to talk to, maybe the retired Tim Duncan is the player to go to for these soft spoken guys. Or if you want to change this mindset, you go somewhere else. You go to the Kevin Garnets, you go to the Kim Olajuwons, you go to the Jamal Crawfords to figure out what they can instill in these players, especially coming into a crucial 2025, 2026 season. Jimmy, what do you think? Do these guys just need a sports psychologist or is it deeper than that?
Jimmy Watkins: I think the answer is usually both. Sports psychologist, great, take care of your mentals always. But the sports psychologist ain’t gonna teach you what Kennel Garnett can teach you. Okay. We spent an entire pod last week talking about can the Cavs make it work with two gentle giants or is there is there and we’ve been asking for three years now, four years now, does Evan Mobley have that? I feel like it’s such like a ESPN get up talking point. But this is like this is real. Do you have the fire within you? Can you flip a competitive switch? Because other Teams are doing that when they get to the playoffs. The Cavs, it looks like, are just the same Cavs. And you see the results. If there’s a switch to be unlocked, inevitable. I bet Kevin Garnett can find it. Here’s the thing. When we talk about who you talk to in the off season, who you work with, learning styles matter, teaching styles matter. We’re not in behind the scenes of film rooms or we see some of shootaround. Basically, we don’t see the nuts and bolts of practice. I’m just going off of what Kenny Atkinson says publicly about Evan Mobley, even when he’s being critical, constructively critical of Evan Mobley. There’s a gentleness to it. There’s a boy. If he just could. He could be. He could be this and that.
Ethan Sands: If Evan.
Jimmy Watkins: There’s just one more step for him and he does so many things well for us. And Cameron Garnett will call you a name. He’ll start calling you names, and he’ll say, really, if you want to be this kind of player, you need to. He’ll be blunt. You need to stop doing this. You need to start doing this. And he’ll add some cuss words to it. Now the question for me is, how do you. How do. How do People, again, will be in Jared Allen? How do they respond to that? How do you respond to that kind of teaching? Let’s call it K. K Atkinson’s supposed to have. He has this kind of side to him, too, right through the clipboard, in the locker room at the halftime. Last year, during the regular season, notoriously gruff coach in Brooklyn may have been why Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant kind of housed him there. Like I said, not everyone responds to coaching and teaching the same way. That’s why you have to adjust. And I think Kenny’s done a great job of that. He treats each player individually. That’s how good coaches do it. They don’t have the same teaching style for every player.
Ethan Sands: They.
Jimmy Watkins: Tweak it as. As they need to based on how the player learns. But if I were in a vacuum, if I were to send Evan Mobley to the school of any former player, I would send him to the Kevin Garnett school because Tim Duncan is probably going to teach him a lot of the things that Evan Mobley already knows and already does. I don’t know if Tim Duncan, maybe. Maybe you could argue again. We don’t. I don’t even know, like Kevin Garnett. Having a school for big men who need a little bit more Fire in them? I don’t know. But we’re just. This is hypothetical, right? Tim Duncan probably one of the hardest human beings to get a hold of on the planet if we’re being real, right? And Kenny Atkinson knows Bud really well. Bud comes from the spurs tree. I can make the connections as to why that would be, why that could potentially work out. But if Tim, if Evan Muller goes to hang out with Tim Duncan, then do we have another like Jared Allen issue on our hands where it’s like two like minded dudes hanging out and Tim’s chill and Evan’s chill and they have a good time together? But how much does Evan really change during that? Like, is Tim Duncan the guy that says, I need you to be more forceful? Is that what Tim Duncan’s going to say to Evan Mobley? Especially like the first time he meets him? I don’t know. Kevin Garnett will like, you know, in the world where Kevin Garnett is willing to have these kind of conversations, I know he would have them directly and bluntly and again with many curse words. And I think that is closer to what a player like Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. But we’re talking heaven Mobley, big picture here needs than the other thing he needs maybe a little kick in the ass from one of the greatest players of all time. A player that he’s been compared to several times throughout his career. You want to be more like me. You want the anything’s possible moment after you win the championship? I’m going to need you to kick it into another year. And I mean, Kevin Garnett when he was basketball, people who don’t know Kevin Garnett was a crazy person. Kevin Garnett was a legendary trash talker, always talking to himself, punching the stanchion. I mean, he. There’s just no. There are a few players throughout NBA history with, with more competitive fire than Kevin Garnett. And so that would be the guy I would choose forever. And also because we know Hakeem Olajuwon’s doing this. Every young big man should be doing everything they can to get into the Hakeem Elaj one footwork school. And that’s just. And to the Wemby point, real quick, Wemby, stay away from Jamal Crawford. Jamal Crawford’s awesome. He’s one of the coolest basketball players we’ve ever had. The handles are legendary. He was inefficient, which worked for him as a sixth man. They just needed him to get hot sometimes. Victor Wamanyama, you are already in the 99.9 percentile of skill for people your size. We don’t need you figuring out more dribble moves. We need you being a big person. We need you drop step dunking. We need you hitting a dream shake. We don’t need you putting together a series of dribble moves into a 17 foot pull up. We don’t need that from you, okay? Victor Wambanyama is living proof that humanity knows no bounds. Okay? But we don’t need more of that. We need more Akeem Olajuwon. It’s like Evan Mobley. We don’t need more Tim Duncan. We need more Kevin Garnett.
Ethan Sands: And lastly, on the, on the point of Victor Wamanyama, he was training with the Shaolin Monks in China, focusing on discipline, meditation and physical resilience. Because obviously we know he’s had an injury history since coming to the NBA. But when it comes to these players, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, I want to just end on this. I, I, I do agree with you, Jimmy. I think every big man should be in conversation with Hakeem Olajuwa, working on their footwork. But for other like more chill mannered players, maybe Evan Mobley goes and talks to Dirk Nowitzki, maybe he goes and talks to Tim Duncan. Those are the ones for, for me, obviously my, my players I would want Evan Mobley to work out with would be Kelly Garnett, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan. And then the player that I think Jared Allen needs to work out with, Pau Gasol, a guy that necessarily didn’t have a whole lot of flair, but when he did, he was roaring. Kind of like Jared Allen, who on occasion will slam down a dunk and then make a little bit of a celebration from it. Pau Gasol is a guy who one has a championship pedigree because he was on teams with Kobe Bryant, but also understanding that he knew how to play his role to a tee. And I think that’s especially important for a guy like Jared Allen whose role is critical for this Cavs team. And that kind of gets into the next question on the podcast from a new in San Francisco who asked to become a top defense again. And as you guys have noted on the podcast, is it more driven by player effort or coaching schemes? And who on the coaching staff is a defensive specialist? To answer the first part of the question, it’s both. Right. Defensive effort can only go so far if the schemes are not being put into place and the defensive schemes can only go so far if the defensive effort is not there. So obviously we know Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are the leaders of that defense. We’ve had a separate podcast on that about how they want to be more vocalized in the coming seasons to ensure that the defensive sets are put into place. But these defensive sets are important because if Kenny Atkinson has it set up so they’re in drop coverage or they’re in switch coverage or they’re in a box and one or they’re in a. In all of these different sets, it has to be based on what the opposing offense is doing. One, obviously two. It has to be adjustable in real time. Being able to change based on mistakes, based on what is happening in the moment of the game where you have to think about it for a split second and then initiate it. Or the Cavs defense itself, the players take the initiative and change it themselves while realizing that something is not working. That’s how you become a free flowing competitive defense on a nightly basis. A top five defense in the NBA is having players willing and capable to make adjustments on the fly on both ends of the floor. But in this case defensively being able to understand what the offense is doing successfully and and taking that away from them.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s more lineup decisions. Frankly, it’s a top down philosophy. J.B. pickerstaff was an Isaac Koro guy. Kenny Atkinson’s a Sam Merrill guy. In the playoffs Sam Merrill was a spot starter for the Cavs. J.B. bickerstaff isn’t. I mean Isaac Coro would be your spot starter oftentimes. Just look at in the Cav starting lineup last year. Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Max Stru. Three attackable defensive players. Maybe Donovan would take exception of that. The reality is teams are going to attack him. Whether that’s because he’s Donovan Mitchell and they want to make him work at both ends or because they also think he’s gettable on that end. I think the difference is kind of moot. They’re attacking you at the end of the day. Max Drew, boy does that guy play hard. There is no lacking of effort with Max Drew. Never will. I accuse Max Drews of lacking effort or focus or engagement on the defensive end. Sometimes his feet just aren’t quick enough. Sometimes he doesn’t slide his body. But sometimes guys are just more talented than him. He would tell you that Darius Garland sometimes just too small. The Cavs last year I feel like really tested the limits of how true is it that Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are cheat codes? Like can we Just throw out whatever around them. We saw Isaac Coro’s roll diminish. We saw Dean Wade’s roll diminish. Those are two best perimeter defenders. Whoops. Isaac Coro’s gone now.
Ethan Sands: Whoa.
Jimmy Watkins: What happened here in the playoffs, neither of those guys were playing very much. You saw what happened. The Pacers scored on him a lot. That’s why when we were saying that the. This couple pods ago, probably a couple weeks ago now, that this beginning of the season stretch gives the Cavs an opportunity to really get back to their roots. Yes, it’s a. Maybe it’s a mental approach from guys like Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland when he comes back, but it’s also just like Darius Garland and Max Druce aren’t in there. The guys that are going to replace them are probably going to be better defenders. And when I’m thinking about like a defensive philosophy and, you know, defense first, Kenny can say till he’s blue in the face. Last year, their defense first, he. His choices were telling us that wasn’t the case. The numbers were telling us that was not the case. And the way Kenny reacted to those numbers where the Cavs offense was better than it had ever been and the defense was slipping and the Cavs were just like, yeah, we’re top 10ish, that’s cool. Their reaction to that, which was, we’re doing the right things. And by the way, they did win 64 games. But your reaction to that tells me this is good. We’re okay with this. We’re okay with some defensive slippage if the offense stays what it is. Now, it didn’t and that’s the issue. There’s a question that we need to consider here as an organization. What is the more bankable side of the ball for us? Like the Cavs offense against the Miami Heat was transferable last year. I think against some of the teams that they’ll see in the east this year, that’s transferable at the highest level. I have more questions about that. And if that’s the case, if you have a. If you run into a situation where your offense isn’t quite what it was during the regular season, maybe you need to change up your lineups a little bit. Could it be that the defense, which bad as the offense was under JB Bickerstadt, it was bad. It was bad in the playoffs. It was league basement essentially both years. Okay. Defense held up, defense transferred over, remember the regular season to the playoffs, in part because JB Biggerstaff was playing dudes who could guard. That was his prerogative. The flameouts under JB were even more egregious that time. I mean, the next one in particular, with the offense just completely disappeared, and the Cavs still had the best playoff defense in that first round. Didn’t matter because you couldn’t score. Right? That wasn’t the right approach either. But Kenny’s gotta find this balance. Kenny’s gotta find this balance between I. Kenny, I am an offense guy. I like shooting threes. I like pace and space. I like guys who move without the ball and confusing defenses. I’d be interested to see if the Cavs admit at any point during this preseason that they lost that defensive identity. Even last year during the playoffs when the Pacers were run or run into that bottom. Kenny would say, like, our offense is failing our defense, which. Which again, I guess particularly against the Pacers, can be true because of the way they rely so heavily on transition. When you miss it, it fuels their transition game to the nth degree. But if your defense is slipping and you just pretend to be a defense first team and your defense is slipping, and then we come and ask you about it and you say, well, our offense is hurting us, you’re not a defensive first team. That’s not how defense, first teams think. They just think, oh, our defense is slipping. We need to be better at defense. Simple as that. So I think it’s lineup decisions. It’s a organization wide. It’s not. It’s not like Donovan Mitchell stopped playing hard on defense or Darrius G stopped playing hard on defense last year. If anything, I thought last year at times those guys were engaged as they’ve ever been because they thought there was a real chance we could win a title here. Just. Just fell apart because I. I thought the Cavs shifted away from the personnel that, that made them great. And again, the. The personnel wasn’t always the best fit in the playoffs. But there’s gotta be a balance here.
Ethan Sands: Jimmy, you know what that. Your conversation just. Just reminded me of? It reminded me of Moneyball when the general manager was talking to the manager of the clubhouse and was like, yeah, well, you’re not gonna be able to start Carlos today. Well, I’m gonna start my guys how I want to play them, right? The. The manager responded, and the GM said, oh, no, you’re not gonna be able to play him because I traded him. He’s not here anymore. So it was an organizational decision that forced the coach to make other changes that fit into the identity that they wanted to create the identity that they wanted. Sounds really similar to what the Cavs did. Hey, Isaac Okoro is a guy that’s been playing decent defensively for us for years now. A product of his environment and a product of what we brought him up into. Kenny, you didn’t want to play him because he can’t score offensively in the playoffs. Understandable. Well, he’s not here anymore. You need to find a replacement for our best perimeter defender. Oh, here comes Lonzo Ball. Right? Lonzo Ball does both offensive production when it comes to passing and off ball movement and all these things, but he can also defend the best player on the opposing team’s offense. Plus, he’s six. Six. Kind of goes hand in hand, right? You make a cut from a roster that you don’t necessarily want to make, but you understand the value and what you’re getting back. So the decision for Lonzo Ball made a whole lot of sense because of what he can do on the court offensively and defensively to counteract the loss of Thigh Jerome, the loss of Isaac Koro, but also understanding that it was a cultural fit. That’s kind of the direction that the Cleveland Cavaliers organization has continuously gone when it comes to players and acquisitions over the last few seasons. It’s. We don’t only want you to fit our scheme, but we want you to fit our culture. It could have been an organizational decision. Obviously, Kenny Atkinson has a say in what happens when. But as we know, George Niang, Karris Lavert, casualties of what the organization believed was possible when it comes to the playoffs of last year that didn’t come to fruition this coming season, all of the moves that they’ve made thus far in the off season, still waiting on that 14th roster spot to be filled, have been defensive oriented. Right? Lonzo Ball. Great. Larry Nance Jr. Great. We understand what you bring to the table to enhance what has already been built around you. Also, the defensive efforts that you mentioned, Jimmy, could help what Lonzo and the Cavs and Kenny Atkinson tried to do, because we understand that, hey, if. If Donovan Mitchell get to play as hard defensively as he did last year, putting him next to Lonzo Ball. Oh, you got long arms. Remember we had this conversation last year, Jimmy, you think about a defense with Lonzo Donovan, Dean Wade, Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen, that wingspan, you can go damn near across the entire. The entire court with that.
Jimmy Watkins: Right?
Ethan Sands: So I do think it’s important to note that this team and the decisions that were made this offseason have been defensive oriented. And it’ll be interesting to see How Kenny Atkinson balances offense and defense because he’s been the one that’s been preaching defense one. But he also brought from Brooklyn, one of the best zone defenses or most used zone defenses in the NBA. So if I had to say there was a defensive specialist on this team, it’s funny because when it comes to zone defense, Kenny Atkinson is the specialist. Everything else up in the air.
Jimmy Watkins: I view Kenny’s staff like some teams, some teams have like a straight up defensive coordinator in the NBA. I view Kenny’s staff as like he’s more of a delegator of development responsibilities and game planning responsibilities, no doubt. But I think like, when it comes down to like, what scheme are we running, like building a defense, I think that’s Kenny. I think Kenny’s really. I think Kenny really likes that stuff. And of course everyone has input. But I think that to your point, Ethan, like, if there is a defensive specialist, quote unquote, it is Kenny. To a certain extent, every head coach is the everything specialist. But I just don’t view this staff that way. I think it’s more about player development than it is about guys who can bring in, bring in the schemes that Kenny needs. Defensive specialists were like Ty Lue and Steve Kerr, maybe, if you will, when he was, when he stopped there as an assistant coach. I also want to make one another example of the Cavs last year and their mentality when it comes to where we lean offense, defense. The curious case of De’Andre Hunter, right? Played a career low 25 minutes a game last year after he got here. Part of that’s because he didn’t know the system very well. He had one practice after, between, between the trade and the playoffs that this stuff is all well documented, right? We’d ask Kenny or we would have the conversation on this podcast. Why isn’t De’Andre Hunter playing more, playing more with the starters, playing more in general? It would be, well, we like him in the six man role, right? That’s better for his offensive rhythm. And we posited we didn’t know, but I feel pretty good about this, that maybe part of the reason De’Andre Hunter didn’t play more is because he’s kind of a ball stopper and Kenny likes his beautiful flowy offense where it’s, you know, 0.5 basketball. Everyone makes a decision as quickly as they can. You know what? Neither of those rationales refer to defense. And De’Andre Hunter when they first traded for him was like, oh my God, I feel like seven different people from the Cavs within the span of Three days were like, did you guys see this game against the Spurs? De’Andre Hunter was guarding Wemby. This guy’s a one through five switchable defender. He’s this, he’s that. He won defensive player of the year in the acc. He’s your answer to this balance of I want to maintain spacing and I want, I want to maximize the, the scoring potential we have on the floor, but we also need really good defense. De’Andre Hunter, in theory, I actually think De’Andre Hunter is a little bit overrated as a defensive player, but we could talk about that another day. But in theory, this is your guy. He’s big, he’s long as hell. He’s so toolsy defensively. Why isn’t that part of the equation? There’s, there’s a lot of reasons to play De’Andre Hunter Moore. We’ve talked about them a billion times. Why isn’t that at the forefront? Why is it that we need to maintain his offensive rhythm like that’s the priority or, or again, this is a theory. We never really said it out loud, but I think. Why is it that De’Andre Hunter’s ball stoppiness holds him back when, when we. It could be if we reframe this. If you’re a defensive first team, he has awesome defensive tools and we’ll figure out the rest of the stuff. Yeah, he stops the flow of the offense and goes ISO and takes some mid range jumpers that we don’t love. But we can stick him on a really big wing at the other end and that’s important to us. Yeah, we like him better in the role of the sixth man and we don’t want to mess with his rhythm a bunch. But it’s gut check time in the playoffs. Our defense has been slipping. We need this guy. That’s the kind of thinking that we’re.
Ethan Sands: Trying to reframe here a thousand percent. And I think that those decisions over this course of the season are going to be extremely interesting, especially when we talk about how the Cavs are going to ramp up for the playoffs and what the lineups are going to change around that time period. Because we know what they wish they could have done last year. Getting into the next question, which comes from Matt in Nashville and Jimmy, I’m just going to take this first one, he says. How soon does the official camp open back up in Ohio? So the Cleveland Cavaliers are once again taking training camp on the road. The team announced that it will open preparations for the 2025, 2026 NBA season with a six day camp at IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida from September 30 through October October 5. The trip follows media day, which is on September 29 and will set the stage for the Cavs four game preseason slate beginning at Rocket arena on October 7 against the Chicago Bulls. With all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a cast insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you and the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the cast from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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