CLEVELAND, Ohio — Welcome to this week’s Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In today’s episode, taped Tuesday afternoon, they talk about the Browns and their continued struggles on offense. They also get into the Guardians and what their offseason might look like after being eliminated by the Tigers in the wild-card round.
Also they discuss the Cavs and what they’re hoping to do as they run through the preseason schedule.
Highlights:
Discussion on Browns’ quarterback situation and Joe Flacco trade to Bengals.
Concerns over Browns’ offensive struggles and inability to score 20+ points.
Debate on Kevin Stefanski’s future and offensive play-calling decisions.
Analysis of Browns’ wide receiver performance and lack of support for quarterbacks.
Evaluation of Dylan Gabriel’s performance and potential as starting QB.
Criticism of Browns’ offensive strategy and use of top players in key situations.
Listener email on Myles Garrett’s MVP candidacy and defensive performance.
Breakdown of Browns’ penalties and coaching discipline issues.
Discussion on Browns’ upcoming game against Pittsburgh and quarterback depth.
Commentary on Bill Belichick’s struggles in college coaching at North Carolina.
Guardians’ season wrap-up and front office’s approach to team building.
Debate on whether teams are ‘wasting’ star players’ careers (e.g., Jose Ramirez, Aaron Judge).
Guardians’ pitching success post-suspensions and future roster considerations.
Listener emails on Guardians’ lineup decisions and player development.
Cavs preseason updates and expectations for faster pace and player roles.
LeBron James’ whiskey ad and its reception among fans.
Should MLB players shake hands after a playoff series?
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If you have a question or a topic you’d like to see included on the podcast, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.
You can find previous podcasts below.
Also, a transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it may contain many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell: Hey, it’s a new edition of Terry’s talking podcast. Terry Pluto is here. I’m David Campbell, your host. Terry, you’ve been running around. You’ve had a lot going on these last few days.
Terry Pluto: Well, that’s how it works. So, anyway, well, welcome all our listeners.
David Campbell: To this week’s edition. I guess we can start with the Browns today, huh?
Terry Pluto: Why not? They decided they’re relentless. They got to do something when it comes to quarterbacks.
David Campbell: All right, we’ll get into the Browns. And I know we got to talk Guardians, too, because you just came from the Guardians season ending press conference, but so Tuesday’s the day off in the NFL, but not for the Browns. They have traded Joe Flacco, I think, along with a sixth rounder to the Bengals for a fifth rounder. And some people in Cincinnati were speculating this might happen. I think some people up here, too. But were you surprised, Terry, when you saw this?
Terry Pluto: A little bit, yeah. Just that was done right away. I mean, the question now is, of course, Gabriel’s there whether, you know, is Shador going to be the backup? And, you know, looming there is Deshaun Watson, who’s certainly trying to get back on the field at some point. And will he be the backup? There’s always Bailey. Zappy. You never know.
David Campbell: You never do know what the problem.
Terry Pluto: So I think a bigger issue, and I wrote a column about this this morning that’s online, is they are now at 10 consecutive games without scoring 20 points. Five last year, five this year. It is a monumental underachievement because you have to go back to the Arizona Cardinals of 2001 over two seasons, who won 13 consecutive games without scoring 20 points. And then you go to, I think it’s the 0949ers who went nine consecutive games. In fact, if you go all the way back, the opening day of 24, only three times Heather Brown scored 20 points. Seamus once in all three, by the way. Your thoughts, David Campbell?
David Campbell: I think that the next several games are going to decide Kevin Stefanski’s future here. I really do. Because it can’t go on like this. Right. And maintain the status quo with the front office and the head coach. It just can’t. Right? Is that where you’re at with all this?
Terry Pluto: Sure. The headline I put on my column was I was wrong about the Browns because my assumption was, okay, Deshaun Watson’s off the table right now and Kevin can go back to picking whatever quarterback he wants. He could run whatever offense he wants. It doesn’t have to suit Deshaun Watson or anybody else. You know, he. And this is talking about going to training camp. He had Flacco and he had Kenny Pickett, and then he had the two kids. And I figured out of that he should get a viable. Doesn’t have to be great, but a viable offense. Last year, the Browns averaged a little under. Basically it was 15 points a game last year, and they’re still at 15 points, dead last. It’s an embarrassment. It really is. I. I just am dumbfounded by this and that. Kevin, for whatever reason, has really not been able to get anything out of this offense since the days of wacko Flacco at the end of 23. And, you know, you looked at Flacco and. All right, so in 23, he made five starts in Cleveland, 13 touchdowns, eight interceptions. Then even last year with the Colts, Flacco, 12 touchdowns. I think he had nine or 10 turnovers between interceptions and turn and fumbles, and that was in six starts. He had eight total appearances. You got the turnovers with Flacco, but you also got the touchdowns this year. I think two TDs and six turnovers. Did Flacco decline that much from a year ago? I don’t know your thoughts on that? I’m very serious on that.
David Campbell: I think he declined, but I do think that Mary Kay Cabot, our colleague, wrote a column about this. Like, they’re giving these quarterbacks, whoever’s been playing, no help.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: You know, the other day against the Vikings, Dylan Sampson had one carry for minus four yards. And on the minus four yards, we have Wyatt Teller at right guard and Jack Conklin. Two guys who’ve played together for plenty of snaps, just blew a block and let a guy go in and make the tackle for minus four. The Jerry Judy has been talking about how he has not been playing up to his standards. And this wide receiver, wide receiving core. I think last week on our podcast here, Terry, I called it the most disappointing group on the whole team. And I don’t think that’s. I don’t know that anybody else is close. They’re dropping balls. They’re not getting open. Not, you know, it’s just. It’s been everything and it’s. It’s hard to get a measure on how poorly or how well a quarterback is playing when everything around him is just so unstable and unpredictable. It’s rough.
Terry Pluto: And I would think a coach like, of Kevin or all the experience he’s had would be able to countermand some of these problems. Wasn’t it with Detroit, where they just let Hutchinson chew up. I forgot it was playing tackle that day. Whether it was KT Levinson or whoever it was, they didn’t give much help. I wish I know exactly what analytics website this guy was from. When I was driving home from the Guardians thing, it was on the Browns talk show that they have. But he had an interesting comment. My guess, you usually he’s probably a pro football focus, but it’s somebody like that. And he said the Browns have faced more man to man coverage than any team in the NFL because defenses don’t think that either the quarterback will have time for these guys to get open or that they can’t get open.
David Campbell: I saw the same thing today.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Or both. Right?
Terry Pluto: Or both. Or.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Take your pick. And I just am dumbfounded by the whole thing because they have a running game now, so. All right. Joe’s gone. He’s with Cincinnati. And you know, who knows, we may get to see him play the Browns. The meantime, what are they doing? A quarterback.
David Campbell: Well, I mean, this is the Dylan Gabriel tryout to see how things go. I was just pulling up his numbers just to make sure I had him right. 19 of 33 against the Vikings, 190 yards, two touchdowns. And this is what we thought it was going to be, right, Terry? Not a lot of risk. I think you mentioned pro football focus. I think I saw date he only threw one pass of more than 20 yards. Right. Okay.
Terry Pluto: And I believe it was at the end of the game.
David Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. And 44 of the yards came on the two plays at the end where the Vikings were just dropping back, trying to have to let a Hail Mary get caught. So very conservative. It’s kind of what we thought it was going to be. And I thought it was. I thought it was not a bad game for. For a rookie playing his first NFL game. He didn’t turn the ball over. There weren’t any plays where you’re like, what the heck was that? Right. Is that what you saw?
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Okay.
Terry Pluto: I mean, if you didn’t know who it was and you saw the tape, you would have thought this is a veteran backup quarterback, has been the league several years, and he’s taken a turn at it and he’s there to make sure that the. You steer in your ship, so make sure it doesn’t run into any icebergs or rocks. And he’s not going to, you know, turn into a speedboat, but he’s careful in what he’s doing and he’s. And he’s competent. So that’s good. I’m all in the mood for competent quarterbacking. And the thing will be now, you know, they’re going to load up the box on him even more than they have in the past to see what he’ll do. And does Dillon have the arm strength to make them pay?
David Campbell: So that brings me back to Stefanski. Terry and I want to ask you. I’m going to ask you a question. All right, so it’s. There’s 320 left in the game the other day and you’re talking about Dylan Gabriel and what weapons he has at his disposal. Right. If I were to ask you the three best players on the Browns offense right now, what would you say?
Terry Pluto: Oh, the three best you got?
David Campbell: Yeah, three best weapons.
Terry Pluto: Oh, yeah, yeah. You got Najoku, you got Judy and you got Gwenshot.
David Campbell: Okay. All right. Quinshon Judkins, third and 11 from the Browns 40 with 320 left and they’re trying to run their four minute offense and get a first down and run some clock and squeeze the life out of this game. Was Quinshon Judkins on the field? On third and 11 from the Browns 40 with 3:20.
Terry Pluto: My guess is he was not. Since you were asking the question.
David Campbell: He was.
Terry Pluto: Jerome Ford was out there a couple times towards the end of the game.
David Campbell: All right, so there’s one question. Was David and Joku on the field?
Terry Pluto: I guess.
David Campbell: No, he was.
Terry Pluto: Okay.
David Campbell: My other person I wanted to ask you about was I would contend that Harold Fannin Jr. Is the third best player on this Browns instead of Judy right now.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, you would. Right? I did. The only reason I did is just because if you were to say talented players. Yeah.
David Campbell: Yes.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. And yeah. Fanon. All right. I think it was Lance Rislin our. The coach and does a lot of our film breakdown for cleveland.com.
David Campbell: Sure.
Terry Pluto: And I stole part of his analysis where he talked about plays and players.
David Campbell: That’s what I’m getting at. Exactly. Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And. And his four players were those four. Right. So the two tight ends, Judy and Quinshaw. And his point was that you know, 70 to 80% of the plays should involve those guys. And I guess that game in Detroit it was like 52% and what is the problem here? And it isn’t some people took. I heard from fact one former NFL executive said you’re. You’re just discounting scheme. Schemes are important. Of course they’re important. And Lance was not dismissing schemes either. You got to have the right schemes, but you also have to have those schemes highlighting the most Talented players.
David Campbell: Sure. Yeah. And he and Dan lobby on our Orange and Brown Talk podcast. They talk about this all the time. It’s kind of like the motto of their segment that they do. It’s like players over plays.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And if you can marry a good scheme with your best players, you’re going to have success. And that’s kind of what I’m getting at. Like your best offensive player on the day, the guy who ran for 100 yards, Quinshon Judkins. Not on the field. And Harold Fannin Jr. Who has been your leading pass catcher going into the game, not on the field. So it’s the most important play to squeeze the life out of this game. Third and 11 from the Browns, 40 with 320 left. And two of your best offensive weapons, Quinshon Judkins and Harold Fannin Jr. Are not on the field. And instead, the Browns put the game in the hands of Isaiah Bond, Jamari Thrash and Jerry Judy to close the game out. Third and 11.
Terry Pluto: Oh, Lord.
David Campbell: It was. It was basically 11 personnel with those three wide receivers. And when I saw that happen, I immediately thought of just what you said, Terry, that Lance, you got to combine a good scheme with your best players. And two of the Browns best offensive players were not on the field, and they were replaced by two guys who haven’t done much of anything this season.
Terry Pluto: To me, that’s unimaginative thinking because it’s like, okay, third and 11. So you want to get three receivers out there to get the 11 yards, but what if you don’t have three good receivers? What if you have two pretty good tight ends?
David Campbell: Yeah. Like maybe Jerry Judy out there with both tight ends. Or like if you throw the ball to Quinshawn Judkins five yards up the field, or you throw it to David Njoku or Harold Fannin seven yards up the field and see what they can do against this man coverage, especially that you’re talking about, Terry, I’m putting my money on those guys more than I am on the receivers who have not had much impact.
Terry Pluto: I thought that was Kevin. Kevin, to me, just seems like he has been through so much the last couple years with Watson and everything else. I mean, last year was a bizarre year from firing the offensive staff after they were, excuse me, tenth in scoring in the NFL in 23, tenth in scoring in the NFL. They averaged 24 points a game with four different quarterbacks. Winning games with four different quarterbacks. I think they played five. And to. You can’t score 20 points no matter what. And I Believe Kevin, with all the, you know, the Watson stuff, it’s got to be mentally draining for the coaching staff. And I just see now he looks like a guy who’s really struggling to get some sort of coherent offense going and I can’t say much of anything else.
David Campbell: So you just were saying this, Terry, like they should have left the desean Watson era stuff behind last year. And going into this year we both thought we were going to see more of vintage Kevin, which is, you know, and Lance has written a lot about this. It’s zone blocking duo and pulling guards and then running stuff off of that. And I don’t think we’ve seen the creative flair where he’s building off of things that came earlier in the game. Right. And I think that’s probably what you’re talking about. That’s what’s been missing is the. Do you think he’s a little creative Sparks? I don’t know. Maybe he feels hamstrung by the quarterback.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Situation or the tackles.
Terry Pluto: Do you think he’s shell shocked by the tackles?
David Campbell: It all goes together.
Terry Pluto: I guess it goes together and then the quarterback is struggling and. And so we’ll see. But you know, the Kevin, I don’t know what the front office and the coaches are thinking, but they can’t go 3 and 14 again and hope to come back. Even if the ownership is saying, I want to play the young quarterbacks you want to see or whatever. You should have went into this, you know, hoping to win some game. Then you turn around, you kick a field goal in game one, 36 yarder, you’re one and oh, and if you just stop these guys from going 80 yards at the end of the game right now you’re three and two are at the worst. What am I talking about? Yeah, you’re three and two or you’re.
David Campbell: Two and three and right in the division race right into everything that’s going.
Terry Pluto: On and with also, you know, how. What a, what a feeling it gives you to just win a game when you’re struggling. And so we’ll see. I mean, Kevin has sounded bad in these press conferences, like he’s not sleeping and you know, other things coaches do when things are going bad. So this will be a challenge for him.
David Campbell: I’m really interested to see, like when the game is on the line. Yeah, I’m going to be. I want to watch and see if he’s going to be going with the guys that he trusts that have made plays because some of these guys aren’t making the plays. And so, yeah, anyway, the team is important.
Terry Pluto: I’m not dismissing that. It isn’t just, like, put your best players out there and draw plays in the dirt. It’s not that at all. But, my Lord, it’s not like you’re so loaded with talent that you can afford to keep say to your best four players on offense off the field in those key situations.
David Campbell: All right, well, we got about Miles Garrett. You want me to read it?
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: All right. This is from Dan. Dan is from Lawrenceville, New Jersey. And he says, as a longtime Browns fan, I can’t say I was surprised by what happened in London. I’m guessing you guys weren’t either. But what stood out to me was, in the first half, the broadcast team spent a good deal of time talking about the Browns defense and Miles Garrett in particular. They not only discussed the idea of him being defensive player of the year, but also brought up that there was talk of Miles possibly. Possibly being the first defensive player to win the NFL MVP award since Lawrence Taylor in 1986.
Terry Pluto: That ain’t gonna happen.
David Campbell: So as I watched the Vikings with Wentz at quarterback and a banged up offensive line, complete nine passes and march 80 yards, I wondered, what would have. What would Lawrence Taylor have done? Would I have heard the announcers mention him at some point during the drive? I suspect I would have. What I do know is that I didn’t hear Miles’s name, not once. It seems to me that everyone needs to realize that the Browns are much worse than people believe and that even the players they hold up as the strength of the team are really not as good as we and they think they are. Again, Dan in Lawrenceville, New Jersey.
Terry Pluto: All right, Dan. I get the frustration. And first of all, that’s ridiculous to talk about him winning the MVP award. That is when you talk about a Hail Mary on a broadcast, that’s what that is.
David Campbell: Yeah, I’m surprised they went there with that.
Terry Pluto: Why? You know, I mean, guys get a. Get a life, you know. Now, Miles is really good. He’s really good. It’s not. That’s a consensus of people. It’s not just local hype. It’s not anything, you know, all the, you know, pressure in the quarterback and that he did not do well down the stretch and nobody else did. But overall, Miles is really, really good. Miles Garrett is not a problem. You know, I mean, I remember I talking to Andrew Barry who said, trading Miles for draft picks, it’s like, I want to draft guys like Miles Garrett. And, yeah, he can be. You know, he annoyed People with I want to be traded and all that stuff. He plays. He’s missed five games in four years. So now we’re into the fifth year of missing only five games and a lot of other guys are out and he, you know, he battles a little bit of asthma problems. Remember we’ve seen that in the past and some others, whether it’s some sort of breathing, because I remember that came up during the COVID era. And so that’s. He’s not the problem. And. But the rest of it, the defense, it was just with the, it was a basically blowing coverage on the touchdown, wasn’t it, by Denzel or what was that?
David Campbell: Oh yeah, that’s what he admitted he had. He had the zone out there and he just let, let it go and.
Terry Pluto: He didn’t cover anybody. I looked at that several times. I don’t, I don’t know what he. I mean it’s not a big area to cover there. So anyway, that is that what.
David Campbell: So I want to. I did have a couple of stats here, so please. I was. When I was watching the game and you know, there’s reasons that Miles Garrett doesn’t have impact in a game. And one of them is that if you count in 1001, 1002 and a half and the ball is gone, there’s not many people in the world who are going to be able to get there on a play like that, including Miles Garrett. And I, I might have. I have to go back and look again. But I don’t think the Vikings ran more than a couple of five or seven step drops. No, the whole game like it was very quick. The ball was up very quick. And that’s no accident. Kevin o’ Connell knew what he was up against with the banged up offensive line. Miles Garrett had two pressures on 35 pass rushes.
Terry Pluto: Yikes.
David Campbell: According to Next Gen stats, that was a 5.7 percentage and that was his second lowest pressure rate in a game since 2001. So if you combine the quick ball, the ball coming out quickly with all the double teams and chips they were throwing at him. And the other thing that I think doesn’t help Miles in terms of impact on the game is he’s on the blind side of the right side of the right handed quarterbacks and he’s, he’s not in the line of the pass a lot of times because he’s coming in on the backside. So we can’t bat passes down or deflect them the way a lot of other players, you know, their spots on the team.
Terry Pluto: I Thought they were going to move him around more on the line but I have not seen that.
David Campbell: Yeah I’d have to go back and look and see where they, where they move them. But anyway, I’m not making excuses for Miles. I’m just saying Miles Garrett. I’m just. He doesn’t need me to do that. But there’s between the coaching, the chipping and everything else going on, they’re just. I didn’t see a lot of opportunity for him to even get close.
Terry Pluto: So you know, I thought Carson Wentz was totally done, washed up, finished. And the last few times he’s played with other teams that’s what I saw and that’s what had to happen. Kevin o’ Connell revived this guy’s career to where he’ll now it’s a lot of quick throws and that but it was masterful and those he was really good and it now there’s a thing example where the scheme, the coaching, you know dressed up this situation and made it, you know, much better than I think anyone expected because Carson was on his way. I talked to somebody about this a couple years ago. Remember he was really good early on and he began to have injuries in his lumbar area of his back and that really took away some of his mobility and kind of on a long slide to bouncing from team to team and there. So this was fascinating to me to watch. Now on that same thing, let’s see what happens when Flacco goes with Zach Taylor. He’s got better receivers, that’s for sure.
David Campbell: Yeah. And a not great offensive line again.
Terry Pluto: Yeah but you know that’s. I said well let’s see.
David Campbell: Yeah, be a good experiment.
Terry Pluto: It’s a good test for there. What would you do with backups and all this other stuff?
David Campbell: Well before the season we talked about this Terry. I think part of what the Browns mission is in 2025 is to find out if they have a quarterback of the future. And so I would keep going with Dylan Gabriel and I would put Shadour Sanders at number two and Bailey Zappi at number three and just ride with it and see how it goes. Is that what you.
Terry Pluto: I wonder if. I wonder if they will because remember was it a week ago they’re saying when I was told this by high ranking person too and I, I think you know, Kevin said it’s hard to ask a rookie just to come into a game and fill in when you. Your scheme is not set up for him. He’s not done it all that kind of stuff. So that comment There would indicate Bailey’s happy, but I don’t see any point in it playing Bailey zappy. I mean, you just.
David Campbell: No, I don’t either.
Terry Pluto: If you’re doing this, then, okay, you’re just playing. You’re. You’re throwing your hook and line into the quarterback pool and seeing if you can catch something good. Yeah, you know what, David? I wouldn’t mind seeing Shador play because I’m just tired of hearing this. It’s a bad reasoning, all that. But I don’t. I. I’m in the camp that doesn’t think he’s ready. He’s a developmental player, and one way to find out. And the other thing I’ve been writing telling fans, we’ve said it. These are the Browns. They’ve had nine different quarterback changes in the last two years. What do you think is going to happen? We’re already on two. Haven’t even played six games.
David Campbell: No, that’s true. We’re probably going to see him at.
Terry Pluto: Some point, but we see about four more.
David Campbell: Yeah, but. So you. You like Dylan Gabriel as an organization? You drafted him before Shador Sanders, put him in and let him play.
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: One of the things that I think was a positive for the Browns, Terry, we. A lot of times with a rookie quarterback, you see there’s guys in the wrong place and they have to call timeouts or the huddle. The operation before the snap is bad. Like, he had all that stuff down cold.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And I’m thinking about, like, how Ohio State handled Julian, saying when they named him the starter going to the season and their first game against is against Texas, a huge opponent, a huge national TV game to open the season. And they went into it and they’re like, all right, we’re not going to ask you to do too much. Just run the offense and make the throws that you can make. We’re going to try and keep it simple and keep. Keep things short and tight. And then as the season goes along now they’re going to start throwing more at him. I mean, jeez, completing like 80% of his passes. I do wonder if there’s got to come a point where it’s like, Dylan Gabriel can’t throw the ball away on 3rd and 11 anymore. He can’t. They’re going to have to start asking him to fit balls into tighter windows if they want to win some games. To build on your point from earlier, they have to win some games here. And I’m going to be watching this kind of progression to see, like, they’ve been doing at Ohio State? Like, how much will they ask him to do this week? How much will they ask them to do the next week? How much will they ask him to do in week 10 or 12 to see how this thing progresses? Because they have to. If they want to win, they have to start putting more on his plate and more on the receivers plate. That just has to happen. It’s a fact.
Terry Pluto: It will be. It will be interesting to see that and also how they play the backup thing. What’s going on with Watson? Is this opening a door for Watson to come back at some point? I don’t know.
David Campbell: Okay, we got one more Browns email.
Terry Pluto: Wait a minute. Yeah, the kicker, he hasn’t missed a field goal or an extra point since the first game. It’s a fascinating thing to think about. The one good thing that came out of the Baltimore mess was he made, I believe was two extra points in a field goal. And the old line of, well, he just needs to get his confidence. But how do you get your confidence when you’ve missed the next point in a field goal? Well, the next game you go out and you kick him and you make them. And then, since then, he’s been good. I think he’s been perfect. And I’m. I’m encouraged.
David Campbell: Good. As our resident kicking expert, I put some stock in that.
Terry Pluto: How about that guy from Minnesota? He hit what, the cable going across the camera cable. I mean, you can hear all the quarter from the kicker saying, is bad enough you want me to kick one for 51 yards. You can’t even get the cable out of the way. I mean, it’s just.
David Campbell: Just when you think you’ve seen it all, huh? I. I was watching that play and I was thinking, boy, he’s lucky. He was a little bit right with that because Denzel Ward would have blocked it otherwise. And then I didn’t even notice the cable. It was the weirdest thing. But yeah, Andre Schmidt, Terry, he’s now 7 of 8 on extra points and 6 of 8 on field goals with a long of 55. So he’s gotten it back on track.
Terry Pluto: So, yeah, that’s. And that. And that’s important. You do want to find. If they can find a kicker out of this mess that’s significant and. Oh, well, so we shall see. All right.
David Campbell: Well, we do have an email about penalties, and I know that’s something is near and dear to your heart. This is from Dave and he says, I wish I were a gambler as I’d make so much money money betting against Cleveland Pro Sports teams. Be that as it may, here are some comments. The only good news I would like to say is that I like this Gabriel kid at quarterback. No turnovers. Stefanski. That call to pass with just over three minutes left was typical Stefanski and I’m so sick of it. You may recall he pulled a similar stunt with Watson in a game against Jacksonville. Not only was the pass incomplete, but it almost got intercepted if I recall. And Jacksonville actually had a chance to win on the last play of the game. So Dave is saying they shouldn’t have thrown a pass on that third and 11. So Stefanski has a record of four and 18 since last season. Please tell me who can justify retaining him with such a wretched race record as a head coach. He needs to be sacked right away. And penalties. I keep hearing that this is a coaching issue, but it just goes on and on. Even on that fumble recovery. Recovery. A personal foul on that play pushed the Browns back. It’s mind boggling. I’d like to see where the Browns stand in the NFL in penalties with Stefanski in charge. I hope you’re all well. Best regards, Dave.
Terry Pluto: I looked at it for this year. They’re not as bad as I thought. I think they were eighth or tenth.
David Campbell: Well, that’s an improvement.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, usually in the top five. And they also weren’t as bad as I thought in pre snap where they’ve definitely been in the top five. They were like again, 10th, 12th. You could, you can google it. There’s a website basically just put NFL penalties that comes up and you got to kind of look through the data a little bit, but it’s all there.
David Campbell: So I wanted to ask you about this, Terry, because penalties are kind of a function of different things, right? One of them is dumb stuff like Dave was alluding to and the other one is you’re not as good as the guy you’re blocking or you’re out of position and you can’t make the play you want to make. And so you have to cheat to. To make the play. And I think we’re seeing a lot of those more types of penalties than like the dumb.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, the holes. The holes.
David Campbell: Is that how you’re seeing it?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, and I’m hoping they won’t call it because I’m getting beat again for the 84th time.
David Campbell: And it’s talent. That’s talent more than the other thing. And also on the unsportsmanlike conduct thing, I, I gotta stick up for Shelby Harris a little bit. I don’t know exactly what happened, but I Think on that play, somebody on the Vikings was twisting his ankle or his at the bottom of the pile. Did you see that?
Terry Pluto: I heard some reference to that.
David Campbell: And he got. Most people in that situation would get furious if someone’s trying to do that to you. And he got up because I saw him talking to the officials later on. He’s like, hey, listen, the guy was doing this to my leg. And so like, I don’t know if that’s a coaching thing, but it wasn’t a great penalty. But sometimes that happens right? Where a guy going on in the game and he just can’t.
Terry Pluto: I mean a lot of, a lot of your things, there’s two sets of penalties, all your pre snap, you know, legal motion and false starts, jumping off sides. Too many men on the field, not enough men on the field. All that stuff that those are the, the worst in my mind. But then there are. Then there’s the I’ve lost my cool and I want to fight penalty that fits in the same box as the pre snap and that just lack of discipline. And then there is the discount of football penalties that happen. And like Shelby’s, they. I think the announcers made some reference. It looked like something happened on that play to him, you know, that kind of stuff. So.
David Campbell: Yeah. And then to see him talking to the refs, it kind of had me wondering what happened.
Terry Pluto: And he noticed they weren’t really like get out of my face or whatever when he was talking to the refs, it looked like they were listening.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. Which tells me they might have thought something happened too. All right.
David Campbell: Anything else on the Browns, Terry? I don’t know. I’m trying to think what else is hanging out there.
Terry Pluto: Well, they’re going to Pittsburgh, so there you go.
David Campbell: That’s on Sunday. Oh, it was an interesting thing I wanted to ask you about. I saw a banner that the Eagles have hung up in their facility and it’s about turn turning the ball over versus takeaways. And I don’t. I wasn’t sure many people knew about this, but they said one of the. One of the bullet points on the create on the turnovers one was city fumbles versus country fumbles. It’s like an old football term and I never know what it is, but I wanted to see if you’ve ever heard of it. If you might have an idea what a city fumble versus a country fumble. So here’s the deal. So a city fumble is when there’s a fumble, but there’s a lot of people around like in a city Ah. And when there’s a city fumble, they want you to just fall on it to make sure you get possession. If there’s a Country fumble and you’re out and there’s not many people around, like in Wyoming, where have you been? Where you’ve been many times, you can try and scoop it up and try and run with it. So I thought that was interesting. All it says is city, City fumbles versus country fumbles. And everybody on the Eagles knows what that means, and I’m guessing most football teams do. But I thought that was kind of cool, so I thought I’d throw it in.
Terry Pluto: I wanted. This has nothing to do with it’s football, but it’s not pro football. I watched like most of the second quarter of coach Bill playing Clemson. I was. My health club. I was on the elliptical that this is an embarrassment. They went through North Carolina, Clemson, who I think at that point was one and two or something like that, as if they were playing, you know, some low Division 1 team brought in and pay 500 grand or a million just to get beat up. And they, I mean, they did stuff like they. The fair caught a kickoff for like no reason. Just all these kinds of things. This North Carolina situation with Belichick is really turning into a disaster.
David Campbell: And so you’re on the treadmill putting yourself through the pain of a workout and you decided to put yourself.
Terry Pluto: They were just like running a jet sweep for 20 yards. And, and, and you know, the broadcasters are like, you know, of course they try to hype the game with Bill. It’s like, boy, there’s like, no, they were really fooled on that one, you know, that kind of stuff. And it just looked horrible.
David Campbell: Well, I think the student section emptied out like midway through the first half. It didn’t look, did not look like a good day to be.
Terry Pluto: You know, there’s an old Jewish parable. There’s no fool worse than an old fool. And by that I mean I can speak because I’m 70. In fact, Roberta and I talk about that and I say, you see me starting to look foolish, let me know. Tell me. I think I might even said something to you like that. If you see me like really slipping or tell me because right now it’s like, I don’t know what’s going on in North Carolina, but they’re ill prepared. All the stuff that they thought they were going to do, Remember they’re going to be the 33rd NFL team. That was their motto, Michael Bardi’s thing. And they went in there and Belichick has two of his sons on the coaching staff. And Michael Lombardi is a quote gm, and he has his son on the coaching staff, Freddy Kitchens. I was looking at the payroll, some of these coaches. Freddie’s making a cool million bucks for North Carolina to call place. I’ll say this. Everybody’s getting taken care of.
David Campbell: Except the.
Terry Pluto: Fans and the team. Yeah. Yeah, I’m done.
David Campbell: No, that’s good stuff. Former Browns coach struggling in a new gig. So.
Terry Pluto: No, it just shows. I had a top executive tell me this. And this was before. That’s right after Brady left. He said, go through it. I’m telling you, I’ve worked with this guy and everything. He’s one coach, a great coach with Brady, and he’s just another coach without him now. And the number, he’s. I’m not saying he’s terrible or doesn’t blow up, but he’s another. He would just be another guy. They would get a job, fired. And really, if you look at the numbers, it bears that out, you know, when he doesn’t. He had one good year with Matt Castle, where I think he went 11 and 5 or something like that when Brady got hurt. But for the most part, the numbers. He’s barely over 500 or might be below without Brady. And of course, with Brady, he’s playing.
David Campbell: For Super Bowls, and that’s why he took the job. Right, Terry? Because he wanted to cement his legacy.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Among coaches. And that’s what people were saying about him. And it’s not working out.
Terry Pluto: Right. And now you’re seeing this where it’s hard. I had another NFL executive tell me this. And this guy’s not a bell educator either. He goes, but can you see Bill at 73, standing up in front of a bunch of college kids and talking? It’s like it’s your grand great grandfather. And. And he didn’t. And I said, you’re absolutely right. Because I know sometimes I’m talking to, you know, some of the athletes in their early 20s, and I’m looking at them and they’re looking at me. And, you know, we could communicate, but we are. We’re like couple generations apart. And then you throw in the parents being involved like they are now with Nil and everything else, which he never had to worry about with the Patriots. And I heard that’s driving him nuts. And so I guess what I’m saying is he went into college coaching, I think, when it’s harder to coach in college than ever before. What do you think?
David Campbell: Absolutely.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And there’s no draft.
Terry Pluto: You got to.
David Campbell: You got to convince every player and their family that your school is the right one.
Terry Pluto: And we recruit them all the time, too.
David Campbell: Yeah. And it never stops.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. Yeah.
David Campbell: Freddie Kitchens said that when he was coaching the Browns here, that he said he never. I mean, he’s back in college now, but he said he much preferred the NFL because you could actually see your family. Because when things. You could go home and not have to worry about some recruit decommissioning at 9 o’ clock at night.
Terry Pluto: And that was 2019 pre nil.
David Campbell: Yeah. And now, like you said, Terry, it’s a totally different ball game.
Terry Pluto: So. Yeah. Because you’re really worried about that. So. I’m not. This isn’t just beat on Belichick. I want a bigger theme of, you know, when we’re at different stages of our life, you and I have had this discussion, like, how can I shape this job so that it accents my strengths and frankly, hides my weaknesses? And as opposed to I’m in my 70s, let’s take on what I would argue are the hardest football coaching jobs in the country, with the Nil coming in cold, not having done it, and frankly, not bringing in a whole lot of people with me who have done it.
David Campbell: And that’s what happens when we see the results.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: When you try and do that.
Terry Pluto: So pride comes before the fall. There’s another proverb. So we have no fools worse than an old fool. And pride comes before the fall. Now, does that mean Bill can’t put himself together and maybe even the NFL again or something? I. I’m not saying that, but I’m just saying this. This was set up for disaster the minute I saw that coaching staff.
David Campbell: You’re right. It would have been hard to find a more difficult situation. So.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: All right. Should we pause here?
Terry Pluto: Yep.
David Campbell: I want to hear what you thought about what you heard at the Guardians wrap up press availability today, which you just returned home from. So we’ll be back on the other side of this break on Terry’s Talking. All right, we’re back on Terry’s Talking. Terry, you have an appearance coming up, and I wanted to talk about your faith in you column in a little bit, but why don’t you talk about your appearance coming up with regina Brett.
Terry Pluto: Yes. October 22nd at the Music Box, which is in the Flats. It’s a restaurant, and I’ve spoken there a couple times. Usually the crowds are big, usually for sports. But this is the one where they had an idea of Regina, who wrote for years for the Point dealer and the Beacon Journal has written some faith books also so they decided to put us all together kind of have a night. So it’s a faith oriented talk and you know my those talks are very similar to my faith Collins next October 22nd at 6pm at the Music Box in the Flats. It’s a great spot to sit there. You’re right on the river. You see the freighters and stuff go by. By the way, great walleye. They have excellent walleye. And my wife Roberta is going to be there and she is going to also sing a song or two which some people my parents as have heard Roberta sing and of course that’s like having a great offensive line. The holes are opened up all over the place. David she’s taken 10 years of classical voice lessons so she is acapella and you know Roberta’s been my MVP or mvp, mv, whatever you get most valuable wife, person, friend, all that for 50 years. Married just at our 40th anniversary so the 22nd at the Music Box and Regina Brett I know is a really good speaker and so we’ll see how that goes.
David Campbell: And I’ve heard Roberta sing, she’s incredible so that’ll be a treat for everyone. So all right, you just returned home from being down at the Guardians season ending, media availability and what did you think? I haven’t really talked to you much.
Terry Pluto: About what you’re reminds me of the last several which is first of all like the last three times when they’ve won the Central Division they don’t know how they did it even they admit it. They just did it. I’m talking about 22, 24, 25 fans want to know are they going to spend more money or whatever. You know where Cincinnati gave a standard answer of we put back into whatever they bring in. They’re not out to make a big profit and I I mentioned about getting a veteran bad or this and well you know we’d be careful someway. I said chris, is there going to be any change in the basic way you do business? And his answer was Mike Dave Campbell no.
David Campbell: No change.
Terry Pluto: No change. Talk about young guys. See you kind of the old pickup guys on the margins and this isn’t like we don’t want to win by the way I have a question for you.
David Campbell: I’m ready.
Terry Pluto: You will keep I keep getting emails they’re wasting Jose Ramirez’s career. You ready? Are the Yankees wasting Aaron Judge’s career?
David Campbell: Man, that’s I don’t need Baseball is so different because it’s one guy and I don’t know. Wasting is such a weird word because that means you’re squandering the opportunities you’ve been given. I don’t feel like the Guardians or the Yankees are doing that. I mean, the Yankees made it to the, you know, they made it to the World Series last year, but that.
Terry Pluto: Was the first time since 2009.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: So another word. Since 2009, the Yankees and Cleveland have been to the World Series as many.
David Campbell: Same amount of times.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, and I’m just. What I’m saying is I. By the way, the answer is no, they’re not. Just like Cleveland is not wasting Jose’s career when he is signed the extension for four years and in three of those years they won the Central Division and they made the playoffs. You know, you’re in there, you get a shot. I get it’s, it’s a nice narrative, it’s something to throw out. But it also is, as you said, there’s so many variable factors that come up and now if they were losing, it would be different. Now maybe one day Jose is going to walk in, I think he’s 33 now and say, I would like to be traded to a bigger market team. All right, I got another one for you. Are the Mets wasting Frankie Gondor’s career?
David Campbell: Probably because they’re investing a lot in a lot of high priced players and they’re not getting the results.
Terry Pluto: Yes, he’s been there five years. This was in my last week’s newsletter, five years. And in those five years they’ve been to the playoffs twice. So I’ll tell you, by God, they spent.
David Campbell: So I don’t think we want to get into this today because we have to. I want to wrap up a little bit about what we saw in the Detroit series, but maybe next week. We have some emails, Terry, that I’ve been saving, but I want to get into. There’s, there’s kind of two schools of thought out there in the guard on the Guardians right now and you’re tapping into this.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: One is that man, they sure do a lot with what they have and isn’t it a remarkable organization. And the other school of thought is, boy, the Guardians sure are doing well with what they spend, but they’re also making excuses for why they don’t need to do more because they’re making the playoffs and they don’t have to spend a lot. So if you can make the playoffs and be in the running for going deep into the playoffs and not have to spend a lot of money, that Gives you a reason to not spend money. And I think there’s some fans who are kind of on both sides of that argument that. That I’m gonna bring some of those emails in next week.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that’ll be a good one.
David Campbell: But I do what you’re hearing from fans right now in terms of. Okay.
Terry Pluto: And then I argue with just the same things I just said there. I’m tired of hearing I mentioned this. Have I wasted my career by staying in Cleveland, having turned down jobs in Chicago twice and turned down a chance to interview for a big job in New York?
David Campbell: Well, yeah, because you have to work with me.
Terry Pluto: No, but. No, no, no, but actually. And I bet there are people listening to this who’ve had opportunities to go quote somewhere bigger. But no, it’s not always better. So we can go philosophically there, but I wanted to throw that out there because I got a couple of those and I’m like. And suddenly I thought about, wait a minute, Aaron Judge is, like, in his early 30s, by the way. And, you know, we’ll. We’ll take it from there.
David Campbell: Well, I mean, you’ve already kind of brought up a couple of proverbs in the podcast so far, but like this, it goes back to the old prodigal son tale, right? Like, are you doing the most with what you’ve been given and some teams, and if you’re not, that’s wasting it. But if you are, then you’re not wasting it. But, like, should Guardians fans expect more? That’s kind of the central question.
Terry Pluto: I hope they. They have a. They sit down and, you know, with Blitzer and the other new ownership group and say, can we. Can we jack this up a little bit? Among other things, I think they should rework Jose’s contract. He’s got three years left on it, throw another year on it, move a bunch of money up front. He’s a superstar. He’s your franchise. I mean, he dragged this team into the playoffs. I mean, you should have heard Stephen Vogt just talk about, you know, we’re watching a Hall of Famer, he said, not just on the field, how he prepares, how he interacts with the other players. And you. It really is like, it’s hard to measure the whole value of him now. Meantime, you know, the Guardians are going to. Chris talked a lot. Antonetti and Mike Chernoff talked a lot about creating opportunities for younger players. They mentioned how some other plans were sidetracked because Juan Brito got hurt, the water got hurt, and of course, Valero. And they saw hints at the end of Valero, the water, what they can do for next year. And they tried, you know, they. They took a swing on. On Carlos Santana, didn’t work there. They said. Now, last year at this time, and I remember this, they were going to shop for starting pitchers. Remember that? And they did. They traded for Ortiz and they traded for Saccony, and that was it. This year, they did say they’re looking for offense. So maybe what we’ll see then is some trades involving maybe some of the younger prospects or whatever to try to bring in at least some middle of the road experienced hitters. I mean, it’s just unbelievable. Jonathan Rodriguez has been cleanup in these games.
David Campbell: Yeah. All right, we got a few emails here. Do you want me to run through them real quick?
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: On the Guardians. All right. First one is from Neil in Jamestown, New York. Neil’s a longtime listener. He says, to Summarize the Guardians 2025 campaign, all I can say is that was the weirdest season I’ve ever witnessed in my 60 years of being a Cleveland baseball fan. That about wraps it up, Neil. This one is from Dan Zagarik. And Dan says, hello, David and Terry. This is more of eventing, but I would like to know if others feel the same as me. I could not believe the Guardians lineup Tuesday. I can understand the need for bats, but sticking Rodriguez in right field is inexplainable. I was happy when he was sent back to the minors earlier this year because of his lack of defense more than his hitting. He is slow, has no range, and looks like he cannot bend over to touch his toes, let alone pick up a ball. I could have seen him as a DH with Noel in right and Manzardo at first, the error in right field seemed inevitable with the lineup the way Vote made it. Don’t get me wrong, I like him as a manager and he deserves another Manager of the Year award. But occasionally he does something like this lineup. That just baffles me.
Terry Pluto: Well, you sit there and you go, all right, I think that was interface in school. What are we going to do here? And sometimes you’re better off playing safe. Valero, even though he’s left handed, because I think he doesn’t chase a lot of pitches out of the strike zone. And you could have even played the water. You had them. You had him there. You didn’t activate him for that game. I would rather have seen that. And as you said, Jonathan could have dh, of course. Big Christmas. That was Big Christmas. Had an error at first in that game. If it’s the game that I’m thinking of. And, and, and Rodriguez messed up in right field. But if you’re vote, you’re. I mean look, who are we talking about here? And these, I mean it’s not like you’re sitting there going, let’s see, how can I get Manny Ramirez and Albert Bell and Jim Thomy and even my Paul sorrento who hit 25 home runs. And how can I get all these guys in the same lineup? I don’t have enough spots.
David Campbell: This is the opposite of that.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. This is like I remember somebody said to me about, see that? And clean, I think Jonathan Rodriguez, I looked at that and they go, well, you know what that is? What? Well, someone has to do it.
David Campbell: All right, here’s Kevin in Oakland and Kevin says, I agree they need a right handed bat to balance the lineup. And I also wanted to see Angel Martinez take the next step. I could see him really establishing himself someday when he really settles in. Question, is there a precedent for a switch hitter to abandon one side and become a good hitter against both righties and lefties only hitting from one side of the plate? I long to see Martinez get a shot as a regular right handed bat. Love your good work. Thanks again. That’s Kevin in Oakland.
Terry Pluto: There may be none. None come to mind.
David Campbell: Me neither.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, in general, usually by the time you reach the big leagues as a switch hitter, one side is better than the other, although sometimes it changes from year to year.
David Campbell: I have seen a lot of switch hitters over the years where it’s like they’re batting.285 from the right side.220 or something.197.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, right.
David Campbell: It’s like, yeah, why bother? But I don’t know that we’re there yet with him.
Terry Pluto: I mean, Martinez is a disappointment to me. I thought he would come around more than he has because they wanted him to be the center fielder after Lane Thomas got hurt. Anthony and Chernoff did say they would. They need. They need a center fielder. They need a right fielder. Of course. Asked about Quant’s contract. We don’t talk about contract. You know, that’s, that’s spitting in the wind there, you know.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Because they’ll come up whenever they’ll. That’s the old thing. We’ll tell you when there’s an extension. When there’s an extension. Some people, by the way, have asked about the Gavin Williams. One guess and one guess only. Who do you think is his agent?
David Campbell: Scott Boris.
Terry Pluto: You got it. Darth Vader. Yeah. And when, when Gavin Williams fished against Tariq Skubal. That was the Scott Boris All Star. Let’s see how many billions of dollars we can get when these two guys hit the market game. So that’s. You’re not going to get Gavin Williams to take a Tanner Wybie contract. I think what’s five years and 48 million or 50 million now, I would argue. I don’t care who’s your agent or whatever, you got a chance to get $50 million and all that. You better take it when you’re a pitcher because it’s now up to 38%. I’ve had Tommy John surgery, but you know what else is creeping up? Shoulder impingements. Shoulder. I’m not even sure what that is on the shoulder problem. I keep hearing impingements because in fact I asked about the picture that the Guardians got for Shane Beaver. It’s. It’s Carl something. I forgot what it was. But anyway, he has a bit of a shoulder impingement, so they shut him down after a few starts and he’s. I guess he’s throwing a good year now and he’s fine. It’s a top prospect. They really like him. But yep, there’s a. The impingement crept into the conversation today.
David Campbell: Yeah, yeah. They used to just call it a shoulder, but now the. I am seeing the impingement everywhere.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, yeah. What happens when your podcast gets impinged?
David Campbell: Trouble.
Terry Pluto: They used to say. They used to say it was a technical problem. Now it’s an impingement.
David Campbell: That’s right. So we can kind of look at the off season a little bit more, Terry, in the weeks to come here. But it’s just to give fans like a quick overview. I was just scanning some of the contracts. It’s like every guy who matters right now has two years of team control or more.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: So like there’s not a lot. There’s are going to be arbitration and pre arbitration, all that stuff for a lot of these guys. But yeah, it’s like Kwon and Austin Hedges are like the two things hanging out there. That will be.
Terry Pluto: Mike Chernoff came up with some interesting stats.
David Campbell: Oh, okay.
Terry Pluto: He said from the moment Ortiz was pulled off of the. Went on the paid leave thing, by the way, and the Guardians are paying them. That money comes from the Guardians, not from mlb. The Cordetto. Anyway, from that moment on, the Guardians had starters had the best ERA in baseball. And from the moment Class A went on the paid leave thing, the relievers did. It’s incredible.
David Campbell: And it was everybody.
Terry Pluto: It was everybody and he just, he just said that that’s, it’s just an incredible thing. They were just talking about how amazing the kids were and you know, how they stepped up and you know, vote is kind of unflappable through everything. And yeah, the six starters, they had six of them now they’re all under team control, least through 2029. That was the other. I’m looking at my notes as we’re talking the other thing that he said. So there you go. You said we have starting pitching and you know, the more. And I mean they really, they are looking at how they’re drafting hitters and how they’re developing and they’re not just saying, well, it’s not working, we can’t do anything. They’re taking, they are taking deep dives on all this and trying to figure out how to make it better and we’ll see if they can. But in the meantime, I just sit there and what do they win? 88 games again? I mean, it’s just, Geez.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: The problem for them was it was such a big ask when you’re the ask asak as K ed ask. They asked so much. For them to make the second round of the playoffs, they had to beat Detroit seven times out of nine games in three weeks. It’s pretty hard to match up almost any two big league teams and one of one win seven times out of nine games, nine pressure games I may add, in three weeks.
David Campbell: And going against the best pitcher in baseball. Three probably of those games.
Terry Pluto: And with the Tigers are good. And I mean, I know they fell apart at the end, but they’re good. I mean look what they’re. They’re going to give Seattle a really tough series, I think. And it’s, I mean, I’m hoping the Tigers do well because I, I get tired of the Central Division being put down because that was a neat thing last year where Kansas City made the playoffs and so did. Well, obviously the Guardians did and so did Detroit and Detroit and Kansas City knocked off Houston and Baltimore who had better records. And then the. I think Kansas City lost to the Yankees and then Cleveland knocked off Detroit and then got knocked off by the Yankees. So I’m always, I’m always sort of like, I hope Detroit knocks off Seattle just because I want the Central to. It now deserves some respect. It’s changed over the years.
David Campbell: Yeah, they’ve earned it. And maybe we can ask listeners if you have like a free agent, like a strategically targeted free agent, free agent, outfielder, bat type person, you think the Guardians can sign Send us some candidates and how much money you think it would take to get them. I’d like to get a list together from our listeners in terms of some free agents they’d like to see the guardians go after. And then if there’s some people in the minors you want to highlight to, send us an email. Sports cleveland.com we’d love to hear from you maybe.
Terry Pluto: I mean, with all our teams local, you know, e. Columbus. I’m sure some people from Columbus are listening or go to the games down there. You’ve got Akron, you got Lake County. You got a chance to see these kids. So who do you like?
David Campbell: Yeah. Let’s hear it again. Sports cleveland.com just put Terry’s talking in the subject line, so. All right. The Cavs are back in action tonight. Terry, we’re taping this late on Tuesday afternoon early evening, and they are hosting the Bulls tonight in their first preseason game at Rocket Arena. I don’t have a lot to get into with the Cavs. I did want to ask you about this LeBron. He came out with an ad to the second decision today, and they were kind of teasing on social media the last couple days, and it turns out it’s a whiskey ad. And I’m guessing this rubs some Cavs fans the wrong way with a second decision. It’s like, oh, I want to drink this whiskey. Big deal. Or not.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that’s really what you want. You know what? That’s really what you want to say. Come on.
David Campbell: Our colleague called it tone deaf in a column that he wrote today. You agree? Many, it was not a big deal.
Terry Pluto: It’s. It figures. How’s that? And for the most part, LeBron stays away from tone. And not only that, it’s a whiskey ad. Maybe it’s because I’ve had some alcoholism, my family or whatever, you know, so much younger people drinking. I don’t know. You could. You could do whatever you want. But I mean, LeBron, people look up to you.
David Campbell: Yeah. And it was kind of weird to use that as a. I don’t know. I think tone deaf is a good description.
Terry Pluto: It is.
David Campbell: It could have been done. It really in a better way.
Terry Pluto: Well, anyway, about the cows. Chris. Peter had some great reporting from Sarasota, and I was glad to see because I had had a casual conversation with Kenny Atkinson about two weeks before they went down to Sarasota. And he told me, because we were talking about how Indiana that the toughness we’re really talking about was mental toughness. And you and I have discussed this, too. About the pace of play. Indiana got the ball over half court faster than any other team in basketball and they threw more passes in the half court sets than any other team. And I saw that Kenny is having a lot of them getting that ball up the court faster and get into their offense quicker. And so that’s a. I think it’s a good way to counteract that because the other team displaying like that is Oklahoma City. I know there are things in the NBA that are cyclical, but still, both of those teams hit onto something at the same time and Indiana might have won the whole thing had they not lost Halliburton to the Achilles injury.
David Campbell: Well, and that’s why one reason we saw Alonzo Ball added to this roster right, is, I mean, it’s one thing to bring the ball up the floor when nobody’s guarding you, but when you get pressure and it’s coming from different directions and it’s, it’s work, man. Getting that ball over the half court line before the violation happens, it’s not easy.
Terry Pluto: You got eight seconds to do it. Kennedy said that ball is one of the best he’d ever seen at passing the ball up the court right away now with that inbound pass and then firing it down the wing to somebody else cutting to the basket. So they’re working a lot at that. I’m curious to see how all this looks because you won’t have Darius early on, so you’re going. You’re going to have Donovan at the point, which I kind of like. And we’ll see if they are paying playing at a faster pace and how that plays out because you’re not going to have Strust for a long time. You’re not going to have Garland for a while. So you got Sam Merrill. Ball’s going to be limited, but it’ll be fun to see him when he does play because I’ve always liked his floor game. And I will say this, he’s made himself into a mediocre shooter. He used to be just horrible from the outside, but more I think you’ll like, if you’re server purist, you’ll like his game.
David Campbell: All right, again, the Cavs are playing tonight at Rocket arena and they will be moving and working toward the opener, which is at The Knicks on October 22, which is a Wednesday night. So. All right, we got a couple of emails to wrap up here. Terry, you ready? All right, this first one is from Norman. He says, is it true that to avoid traffic problems in Brook park when the new Brown Stadium is Built at the Haslams. Plan to buy Hopkins Airport and move it downtown.
Terry Pluto: Well, there’s an airport there.
David Campbell: There is.
Terry Pluto: You can just combine them.
David Campbell: That’s right. Just roll them all together. So anyway, it was kind of funny from Norman, so I thought I roll.
Terry Pluto: And.
David Campbell: And this last one is from Kenny Cates from Palm Desert, California. Hey, guys. All youth sports and college teams do it. NFL, NBA, NHL, all do it. Why do MLB players not shake hands or mingle with the opposing team at the end of a game? Thank you. Thanks, Kenny. It’s interesting. I never thought about that.
Terry Pluto: They’re hungry.
David Campbell: So when you were playing baseball at Bangladesh.
Terry Pluto: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Nobody serves as much food after a game.
David Campbell: As baseball.
Terry Pluto: As baseball. I remember. I’m a rookie baseball writer in Baltimore. It’s not an Earl Weaver stories. I forgot which one of these venerable ode baseball writers. We walk in and, you know, look at these guys. You think they had neat for four months. They’re just diving into it, you know, and they, you know, they had barbecue stuff and everything else. So that’s why they. They don’t have time to shake hands. They’re hungry.
David Campbell: They’re hungry. They got to get into the spread. But.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, but I mean, when you were.
David Campbell: Playing at Benedictine, you probably shook hands, right? The end of the game. Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe they just get tired of it. Truthfully, I don’t care whether these teams shake hands or not in the pros.
David Campbell: I was thinking about the other thing about baseball is these guys are all hanging around the batting cage before the game talking. So they’ve seen everybody they want to see. Right. So you’re right. They want to get in and get the sandwiches.
Terry Pluto: Food. Yeah, I don’t have it. You know, I mean, here’s the other one. Why do baseball managers, why are they dressed in uniforms but the other coaches aren’t the other sports?
David Campbell: That’s true.
Terry Pluto: Well, part of it is because a lot of times it goes back to playing managers or when you only had a manager and a coach and these guys were actually, you know, hitting fun goes throwing, batting practice and all that. That’s where it comes from.
David Campbell: Yeah. I like when guys wear the uniforms. I think it’s cool. The managers. So.
Terry Pluto: All right, so they wear uniforms, they don’t shake hands, and they eat a lot.
David Campbell: That’s right. If we’ve learned anything today, that’s what you should take away from the podcast. All right, we are done here, correct?
Terry Pluto: That is correct.
David Campbell: All right, thanks, everybody, for listening. I just want to send out a quick reminder about Terry’s newsletter. As he mentioned earlier, it comes out every Wednesday afternoon. You can go to cleveland.com Pluto go to the Blue Bar at the top. And don’t forget about Terry’s upcoming event with Regina Britt down at the Music Box. Hopefully you can make it down there. So we will see you all next week on Terry’s Talk.
Terry Pluto: It.
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