CLEVELAND, Ohio — It’s time for this week’s Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In this week’s show, taped late Tuesday afternoon, they talk about the Browns and whether Kevin Stefanski is feeling the heat with the trouble the team is having scoring. They also get into the Guardians and Terry’s thoughts on one contract the Guardians should address ASAP.
Also they discuss the Cavs and what things Terry would like to see from them as the season opens next week.
Highlights:
Terry shares a “moment of wisdom” about venting in emails: tone and humor are lost compared to spoken conversation.
Discussion on Browns’ offensive struggles against the Steelers: 82 snaps, Quinshon Judkins only played 33 despite being top offensive weapon.
Browns ran only 17 times for 65 yards, despite game being close early; heavy reliance on passing (27 passes vs. 11 runs in first three quarters).
Missed opportunities: Judkins absent on key goal-line plays; lack of creativity like play-action fakes.
Terry suggests Kevin Stefanski looks “shell-shocked” by offensive failures; quotes Stefanski: “Before you start winning, you’ve got to stop losing.”
Offensive line woes highlighted: aging starters (Teller, Bitonio, Pocic, Conklin all 30+); poor Pro Football Focus grades (best was 64.7).
Listener email proposes 2026 offseason rebuild: draft tackles, replace veterans,.
Receiver issues: Jerry Jeudy drops (7 in 6 games) and costly penalties; Fannin also had key drops despite flashes of talent.
Gabriel sacked six times, hit 16 times; Browns threw 58 times including sacks—offensive imbalance and protection failures.
Debate on ownership accountability: email argues Haslams should sell; Terry counters owners rarely sell, especially after stadium deal.
Terry plugs new book: Why Can’t This Team Find a Quarterback? covering Browns’ QB struggles since 1999 and ownership dynamics.
Mike Tomlin’s reaction to Browns trading Joe Flacco to Bengals: “shocking”; Terry and David analyze implications and AFC North competitiveness.
Browns’ strategy likened to Guardians’ “thread the needle” approach—trying to win while developing young players; trade rumors hinted.
Positive draft notes: Judkins, Fannin, Schwesinger praised; Tyson Campbell trade seen as promising despite questionable usage vs. DK Metcalf.
Special teams bright spot: rookie kicker Andre Szmyt solid after rough opener (3-for-3 in Pittsburgh).
Guardians offseason priorities: extend José Ramírez again, pursue right-handed power bat, consider Stephen Kwan’s future contract.
Cavs preview: season opens Oct. 22; focus on pace, bench depth, unlocking Mobley and Hunter; injury concerns for Garland and Lonzo Ball.
Faith column reflections: Terry shares story on visiting graves and human moments in sports.
And a closing email from a listener who says baseball isn’t the only sport without a clock and with lots of drama.
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If you have a question or a topic you’d like to see included on the podcast, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.
You can find previous podcasts below.
Also, a transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it may contain many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell: It’s time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. Mr. Terry Pluto is here, columnist from cleveland.com and the Plain Dealer. I’m David Campbell, your host. And we got a lot to do today, Terry. A lot to get through. I you doing?
Terry Pluto: I’m. Well, what are we getting through?
David Campbell: Oh, all kinds of stuff on the Browns, mostly. Some baseball to get through.
Terry Pluto: I have some wisdom. See what you think.
David Campbell: All right, let’s talk Browns. Let’s go.
Terry Pluto: This goes there, but it starts with Browns. But it’s like I get these emails and people are very, very angry and they’re ripping everything. And I could tell they wouldn’t mind me kind of, you know, know, taking a long walk off a short repeater, etc. And then at the bottom they go, well, I’m just venting. So I have a thought. If you send an email and you’re venting, realize there’s actually maybe somebody at the other end of the email.
David Campbell: Think about who you’re writing it to.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. Or just. Right.
David Campbell: Well, I have something I want to vent about later on.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: So I will.
Terry Pluto: And here’s the problem. I’ll farther. This is kind of like the Browns, I think, were stuck in stage one thinking and which we’ll talk about in a moment. And I think sometimes when you send an email without you, like, maybe you feel better, but when it comes to roaring in with capital letters and all kinds of other stuff to somebody else, especially if somebody don’t know that well, unlike, say, if you vent in a podcast or just talking, a lot of times, you hear the humor and the voice and everything. You don’t hear it in the email.
David Campbell: Yeah. When it’s all caps, especially text or something.
Terry Pluto: So there you are. That is my moment of wisdom. And it may be the only thing you have, but something to consider.
David Campbell: Well, I have seen people having conversation, like important conversations over text. Like, we’re breaking up.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Over text or.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, right.
David Campbell: You know, I’m. I’m leaving home. I’m running away from home. Here’s a text.
Terry Pluto: Like, exactly when did that start?
David Campbell: Like, that is not the way to do it. Because you’re right, Terry. All the nuance gets lost.
Terry Pluto: Right. And it’s even better when you can do it in person because you can see there. But the other stuff. So stage one thinking. Much like the Browns, by the way. All right, go ahead, David. David Campbell. There were 82 snaps. I have these, which nobody can see the stats of my hand. 82 snaps in that game against Steelers.
David Campbell: Okay.
Terry Pluto: How many snaps had offensive snaps? How many snaps were junkins on the field?
David Campbell: So I looked this up earlier, so I might be a little bit. But I think it was in the mid-30s. Am I remembering that right?
Terry Pluto: 33.
David Campbell: Okay.
Terry Pluto: Out of 82, Jerome Ford also played 33. Am I missing something?
David Campbell: No.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: I got into this last week. Who is the Browns best offensive player this season? Yeah, it’s Quinn. Sean Judkins. Right.
Terry Pluto: I don’t care if he was having some trouble running the ball. Leave him out there. You could fake it to him. You could throw him a pass. And as I was putting. Because I was working on some stuff for my newsletter before we go into this, and I mentioned it to Roberta, my wife, my wise wife, simply said, well, that’s because he wanted to throw the ball.
David Campbell: All right. So the total running approach for the Browns on Sunday in their loss to The Steelers was 17 carries for 65 yards. And when I saw that, I kind of had the same thought, Terry. I thought, well, they were behind. They had to throw it.
Terry Pluto: But no, they didn’t.
David Campbell: No, that’s what I’m saying. That was like my. That’s. Sometimes that’s my first impression. And especially last season when you talked about how they led the league. Right. And I guess they were behind.
Terry Pluto: No, they didn’t.
David Campbell: So Dan Lobby, our colleague, he puts out an excellent 10 Takeaways column every. Every Browns game. He. He counted the running plays in the first three quarters.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Okay.
Terry Pluto: How many?
David Campbell: They have 27 passes and 11 runs in the first three quarters when it was still close.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And Dan wrote about this. But when you get a first and goal at the three, and Quinshawn Judkins is not on the first or second down. This is another point that Dan made 10, 26 to go. And in the fourth quarter, and he was not on the field on first or second down. I don’t get it. I just don’t get it.
Terry Pluto: I actually rewatched the game last night because I wanted to make sure that that was right, because I had heard that. Well, that was right. He wasn’t out there. He was in the witness protection program. I don’t know what. But gone. And this where I think the stage one kind of the venting stage one thinking. And what’s that do with the Browns? It was stage one thinking of, all right, they know we’re going to run the ball. They’re going to stack the line to try to take away Judkins, which they did. So we’re just going to Throw it. And then you get into, as Dan pointed out, was it 11, 27 passes and 11 runs and probably it was I believe 30 passes because I think there were also three sacks in the first three quarters and three in the fourth quarter. I mean you just don’t give up on this stuff and you try to be more creative. I think Kevin sort of shell shocked, I really do in terms of just how rough the season has been and the struggles to score the points. It’s just been, it’s been hard for him.
David Campbell: Well and you know, if, if you’re the Browns and the Joe woods defense is just getting marched on up and down the field a few years ago and you’re the head coach and you’re the offensive guy, it’s like, wow, our defense is really struggling. How are we going to fix it? I think you’re right, Terry. I think this is a lot more personal for him because he’s the offensive play caller. He’s the, the guy who came from the offensive background. He’s supposed to be setting the tone and the kind of rhythm of this offense and it’s failing miserably on every front. It’s got to be hard on anybody.
Terry Pluto: I mean he said a really I mentioned this is some, some of the notes I have in my newsletter after the loss he goes, we’ve got to get it fixed because before you start winning, you’ve got to stop losing. I just kind of laughed at that. I guess that’s true. But it’s like yes, it is the kind of thing you say when you’re tired, worn down and discouraged.
David Campbell: And you think by stop losing he means the dumb plays, the, I guess the missed blocks, the. There’s at least one thing that goes wrong on every play right now that’s to be elaborated.
Terry Pluto: Then he always gets into we got to do better with everything.
David Campbell: We all have to do better. Players, coaches.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, right. That’s his there. I really believe he’s just, he’s just really struggling. I thought they didn’t give him give the tackles much help. Watching the game, I’ll tell you how bad it was. I was sitting with Cameron justice who does such a Great job for TV5. We’re sitting next to each other. If you haven’t seen her work, she, she works hard. She really loves football and that. And so and twice we’re watching the Browns are an obvious passing third down situations and twice we’re seeing empty backfield and almost in unity, you know, one of us. That’s all I was like trouble. I Got. Oh, and bang. There was a sack both times. It isn’t because we were smart or anything, David. It was just. You could see it coming. There’s an empty backfield. You could see that the Steelers, they weren’t just faking the blitz. They were like turning on the Jets. They’re here they come. And like, why are you leaving this fourth quarterback out there by himself? And, you know, there weren’t too many screens. I don’t know. Now, granted, the Steelers had better talent, but I outlined in my notes for Monday morning, the Stewards have ranked anywhere from 22 to 28th and 30th in different defensive categories. This is not the old fashioned steel curtain.
David Campbell: Well, they did get some guys back and I know that Mike Tomlin talked about that, but yeah, the numbers were what they were, so. All right, so do you want to run through this, like, position by position here and we’ll kind of get into whatever. Okay.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Paul Cosgrove, who’s a longtime listener from Sun Lakes, Arizona, writes in and he wants to talk about the offensive line. And he’s looking forward. And he says 2026 may be the best opportunity to redo the Browns offensive line. Only 15% of linemen in the NFL are over 30. And the four starters listed below are all 30 plus Wyatt Teller, Joel Batonio.
Terry Pluto: Wow.
David Campbell: Posick and Conklin. All right, those guys are all over 30. That’s a great stat from.
Terry Pluto: That’s a great.
David Campbell: Letting these players walk could save the Browns $51 million to be used in free agent signings. He says to replace Posick with Luke Whipler, which. I don’t know. Luke Whiplar hasn’t been able to get on the field. But point taken, right? Offer Bill Callahan an assistant head coaching job and pay him whatever he asks to return as the Browns offensive line coach. And we saw Bill Callahan left the Titans today after his son got. Got let go.
Terry Pluto: I could be wrong, but Browns fans need to calm down about that. Bill is not gonna walk out with a son getting fired and turn around, walk into this mess where a coach could get fired again.
David Campbell: Well, and also he has a relationship with the current offensive line coach, right, Mike Bloom. Can you. I don’t know that he want to come in and just big foot on his position.
Terry Pluto: That’s not. That’s not going to happen.
David Campbell: All right, Paul also says draft an offensive tackle in the first or second round and he’s got a list of some of the guys there.
Terry Pluto: Okay.
David Campbell: Spencer Fana from ut, Francis from Miami. I’m not sure to pronounce his name. Caleb Lomu. Blake Miller from Clemson. Blake Miller’s from Strongsville, incidentally enough. And Xavier Chapman from Auburn. He says the 2026 off season offers the Browns an excellent chance to retool the line. But can we reach, can we trust the Browns to select the right players? So there’s that. The Browns offensive line. The other day Joel Batonio graded out the best at 64.7. Again, this is from Pro Football Focus, and you always wanted me to mention Terry, like it’s like school grading, right. 90 to 100 is an A. Yeah. 85 to 89 means you’re a Pro Bowler. 70 to 84 means you’re a starter. Anything below 69 means you’re a backup or replaceable. So Joe Batonio was the best one the other day, according to Pro Football Focus. 64.7. Wyatt Teller 60. Tevin Jenkins 60, Jack Conklin 53.1. He had to leave early. Played 39 snaps. Posick 50.0. Cam Robinson 38.3. The new addition at tackle, KT Levison, 42.9. So that’s where a lot of the problem lies, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: In terms of getting time to do what you want to do. I, I do feel like if you’re a Browns fan watching this, it’s like sometimes you go to a college football facility or an NFL one and you see these 50 yard fields.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: That they practice and I feel like that’s what defenses envision the Browns offense as. Right now it’s like we don’t even need to worry about anything deep. Like we’re just going to play a 30 yard defense and we should be fine. And that’s kind of where things are at. So.
Terry Pluto: And maybe that goes back. It’ll be interesting to look at how Flacco does with Cincinnati, not just in terms of stats wise, but is he hitting for longer passes that that will be something to watch there. He’s better receivers, but also maybe just more time to throw. I noticed in his game the other day he completed 16 passes to T. Higgins and Jamar Chase for 160 yards.
David Campbell: Well, talking about the receivers, we do have an email from Norm from Strongsville and he says in memory of Les Levine, how come Bengals receivers can catch Joe Flacco’s passes but the Brook Park Haslam’s receivers didn’t? Of course, Les was famous for his how come quickie riddles. So thanks for that. Norm. There’s. Are there any reasons to be optimistic about this receiver room, Terry? I Mean, Jerry Judy is supposed to be your number one guy. He’s driving passes. And not only that, he cost the Browns 30 yards with the other day penalties the other day.
Terry Pluto: I watched, I watched them closely on the tape. And the two drop. He had two drops and so he now has seven, by the way, in six games. Next on the drop list is Fannin with three. That’s from Pro Football Focus with the Browns. But I will say this. He got, he was, he was playing hard. He wasn’t playing smart, but he was playing hard. He got knocked around. He really wanted. He wanted to make a play. I, you know, his head wasn’t operating correctly, but his heart, I thought was in the right place in that game. But like you said, he’s your, he’s your Pro bowl guy and that’s what he’s doing. And Fannin had a huge drop. That was a tough thing. When Gabriel Maui made a couple of pretty good throws down at least more than 10 yards. The guys dropped them.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Now a few. He see what you think because you’re more football guy than I am. A few. He threw over the middle and their receivers are getting blasted on that. When they called, there was the one.
David Campbell: Judy drop where he was running the seam between the corner and the safety and he dropped it. I don’t know that he took his eye off the ball or just was anticipating the hit. But yeah, you would absorb a few of those. And you remember them, especially in Pittsburgh.
Terry Pluto: I thought it was. The Steelers were fierce. The way they hit. Watching the game and then on tape, it’s like, wow, they were crushing people. Some of it was semi dirty, too. I thought there was borderline cheap shots and. But anyway, go back to. So we go back, we didn’t finish, so we talked about running. But then you throw 58 times the granted 52 passes for Gabriel, but there also were six sacks, so that’s 58. He was hit 16 times. I don’t know how he walked out of there in his own power. And you know, afterwards you look at him and go, what did you see? I saw a tough kid. You know, he should have had some balls intercepted, but it was just a mess. And these people rushing. You got to get Shadora in there, Shadora in there. What do you think he’s going to do in that mess?
David Campbell: The same thing.
Terry Pluto: The same, same thing. Now they got plenty of games left. Where they got. That was game six. They got 11 games left. I mean, Shooter is going to play Bailey. Zappy’s probably going to end up playing or something. This is the Browns minimum three quarterbacks play often. Four.
David Campbell: All right. Well, there are a lot of frustrated Browns fans. I do. I have a couple more emails here. Should I run through real quick? Sure.
Terry Pluto: All right.
David Campbell: This first one is from Chuck McCartney from Avon Lake and Chuck’s a longtime listener. He says, hey, Terry and Dave, leadership guru John Maxwell is 100% correct when he writes. Everything rises and falls on leadership. This email will ensure I’m not on the Haslam’s Christmas card list, but I’m ready to see them take accountability for the swing and miss by selling the team. Cleveland fans now need to make their voices heard loud and clear. We just lost to the five time super bowl champion Steelers and despite having very talented players, they don’t win any Super Bowls without the Rooney family setting the tone through their leadership. Art model broke our hearts. And now the Haslams do not have the capacity or ability to heal. And it pains me to write, but the Browns will never win at all with the current ownership.
Terry Pluto: So that may be correct. But remember the. The truth about owners. They’re owners. Can’t make them do anything. I don’t mean to be sarcastic.
David Campbell: No, there’s a stadium and. Right.
Terry Pluto: Do you think after all they went through to get the stadium deal done, they’re going to sell it?
David Campbell: No, it’s just beginning for them right now.
Terry Pluto: Just beginning that this was their super bowl getting this deal done and then in their mind. And I really believe that the. When you talk about Baker leaving and all that, it was in part driven by the obsession for Watson and the obsession to find a quarterback to help them win as they’re trying to put the stadium deal together. That’s my thought.
David Campbell: And some of what’s in your new book that’s coming out. Do you want to talk about your book real quick?
Terry Pluto: Yes, yes. The new book, why can’t this Team Find a Quarterback? That’s the name of it. And it kind of covers the Browns since 99 to now. Because when I was looking at was like it’s. At first I was sort of writing a Browns book of some sort and then I thought their first big move was drafting Tim Couch. And here we are 26 years later and at that time, 40 quarterbacks later and they’re still looking for quarterbacks. It’s. It’s phenomenal. And how the quest for quarterback was behind so many of the big swings and misses. So it’ll be, it’ll be out soon and I’m excited about it. And so.
David Campbell: And just.
Terry Pluto: Yes. There will be plenty of Christmas presents about in terms of appearances and all that stuff. But yeah, it’s called. It’s probably up on Amazon. I’m not sure they have booked yet because it just came out. Why can’t this team just find a quarterback? And other thoughts on life in Brownstown and also in there there’s two chapters on Jimmy Haslam. There’s a chapter that I really like where I kind of looked at Nick Chubb and Jim Brown and their backgrounds in the south and things like that. So it isn’t all just Brown’s drudgery. Although there’s if you write a book about the Browns at least anything post post 1990 there’s lots of Browns judge drudgery. There’s also a lot of emails and things from fans. So cool.
David Campbell: Well that will be here soon. But I did want to go back to Chuck’s point like the the leadership, like the results are on the field for the Browns and since the Haslams bought the team, the results have not been there. And I think if you ask most Browns fans, they would say that the leadership has not done the job.
Terry Pluto: And yeah, it’s fun. And there is a chapter that’s just true. By the way, it’s funny you mentioned in the book that what if Al Warner had not died. That’s a chapter in the book. Interesting, you know, thought because then it went over to Randy and then it went over to the Haslams. But the thing about the owners, the truth about the owners is they are owners.
David Campbell: And yeah, there’s a huge business development as part of this thing out in Brook Park. This is their vision and they’re going to see it through. I would be shocked.
Terry Pluto: Remember, this is a thing that I keep stressing to fans is the world of sports franchise ownerships have changed. These guys are now conglomerates owning teams across different sports. The David Blister, Josh Harris Group, which bought into the the Guardians. I’m going to try to get this right because there’s so many teams. They have the New Jersey Devils, they have the Washington Commanders, they have the Sixers. They have an MSL team. I don’t know what it is. I think it’s in Utah. They’ve got teams in Europe. The Haslams have the Columbus Crew. They’re part the Milwaukee Bucks at four key owners of 25. They are one of them. And they have the Browns. They ain’t selling, they’re buying. Yeah.
David Campbell: And if you, if you’re a billionaire, where else can you put your money that you’re guaranteed it’s going to grow and you can have fun watching the team play that you own.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. When you. When you go to sell, that’s how it is. It isn’t like I remember when I wrote Incursa Rocky Color. Vito and I looked into when the Browns were bought in the. Excuse me. When the Tribe was bought in the middle 70s by Ted Bonda. It was a 50 owners. One guy told me he got a piece of the action for 50 grand, even if he would say it was all right. So they say money is five times or ten times more. So 500 grand. I don’t mean there. I mean it’s a lot of money to us, but to those guys it’s nothing.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And it ended up being sold to the o’ Neill family after that. And you just. And the o’ Neill family never could buy it. The Dolan’s never could buy this. Now it’s just a whole other ball game.
David Campbell: All right, we have one more here from David in Youngstown and he says, hey, Terry, I watched the Browns game today. Haven’t really watched them since Deshaun Watson’s first season, but that’s mostly because I find the NFL mostly unwatchable. I was a big Stefanski supporter, but find myself wondering if the rest of this season is a preseason for him. He’s coaching like his job is completely secure. The Steelers stated their plan to shut down Judkins and they did. Did we run one play action? Fake to him to freeze the linebackers or safeties? That’s a good question.
Terry Pluto: I thought the same thing too. Where were they?
David Campbell: Yeah, I said in 2021 that Baker Mayfield must have done something inappropriate to someone in the organization for them to continue playing him. Right about that last game against the Steelers and no one protecting the tackle. It continues this season. Maybe it’s just coaching. They rolled Gabriel out twice today. If it weren’t for the Buckeyes, I might have been able to quit watching football cold turkey. The NFL rules keep creeping into college football and nil in time, but I’m. I’ll still keep true. I’m thankful to still have baseball. And I’ve come to accept some of those rule changes to speed up the game. Go Bucks. Go Guardians. Go Cavs. And heaven help the Browns fans. Thanks for that, David.
Terry Pluto: It’s funny because in my notes too, I. I did and I was watching again, you know, the you could run play action rollouts. And I didn’t see. Maybe there was one or two of those I didn’t see Many now, they probably are going to get beat anyway, but still come up with something. That’s what I said. I just think Kevin is worn down. I could be wrong. But.
David Campbell: So going back to David’s letter, his email here, do you think his job is on the line?
Terry Pluto: I do.
David Campbell: I mean, could you see him getting let go if this happens on Sunday? Do you think he could be let go next week? Or is this something where they’re gonna let it play out?
Terry Pluto: I think now that the Haslins are done with this whole stadium thing, the big parts, then they’re gonna look at this, I think, real seriously compared to before. I have that. That. That is based on zero reporting on my end. You know, because you’ve had. You’ve heard me say I got this from high up. I’m real confident. No, this is just my just feeling on how this goes. You know, you go back to the off season and then they. Where they traded to get the extra draft picks and really was pointing for it towards 26 for a quarterback. Meanwhile, even Jimmy Haslam, remember, said the exact quote, I have it in my story, that on Mike, Tom, on talking about that, where he said, well, yeah, we want to look at both quarterbacks. And Kevin is aware of that, right? Both rookies. He flat out said that at the end of July.
David Campbell: So. So David’s phrase, I think, was he’s coaching like it’s preseason. Do you agree. Do you agree with that? That Kevin knows that this is part of a bigger thing for next year and he’s got to work through the quarterbacks and see where they end up at the end of the year and he’s going to be given time to do that. I think it sounds like you don’t.
Terry Pluto: You don’t.
David Campbell: Do you think there is that the way it’s going down or.
Terry Pluto: I think he’s trying to win, but also trying to look at these guys. And then what did you make of what Mike Tomlinson said about trading Flacco to the Bengals?
David Campbell: Oh, okay. So let’s get into that. So for those who missed it yesterday, Mike Tomlin. The Bengals have. I mean, the Bengals. The Steelers have a quick turnaround this week. This week, after playing the Browns on Sunday, they have the Bengals on Thursday night. And Mike Tomlin was asked about what he thought about the Browns trade of Joe Flacco to the Bengals last week. And Tomlin said, to be honest, it was shocking to me. Andrew Berry must be a lot smarter than me or us, because it doesn’t make sense to me to trade a quarterback that you think enough to make your opening day starter to a division opponent that’s hurting in that area. But that’s just my personal feelings.
Terry Pluto: I bet it is.
David Campbell: We got an email from Jim Mullen, one of our longtime listeners, and Jim says, hey, Terry, I read your article about Tomlin’s comments on the Browns trading Flacco to an opponent in their division. I’m still baffled by the trade. I don’t recall ever seeing this happen before. To me, if you want to see ineptitude in action, this is a good example. So that’s Jim’s take on it. You your column today, Terry, you pretty much said like, the Browns have bigger problems here than Mike Tomlin and Joe Flacco.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: Why don’t you kind of talk about that?
Terry Pluto: No, you go first. Your first thought when you heard that was.
David Campbell: Well, my first thought when I read it was Mike Tomlin is very much a believer in that coaches need to support each other. And my first reaction was that he’s trying to stick up for Kevin Stefanski and say like, listen, this coach doesn’t have much to work with. We just beat them easily on Sunday and I’m going to stick up for my guy. That was my first reaction. But then the more I watched it, I think the bigger part of it is just that Tomlin was like, geez, I got to play Flacco. Yeah, I’d rather not play him. So what are they doing? They’re making my life more difficult.
Terry Pluto: Jake Browning, I want him. And also I think to a guy like Tom, when he’s old school or whatever, it’s like you just don’t do this.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: You don’t punt on this season after five games, especially in division where everybody has a losing record. Baltimore’s in shambles. The Bengals are a mess. You know, we’re 4 and 1. But I think he didn’t at that point they were three and one. I think he couldn’t believe they they were even three and one. It’s like it’s wide open. And you know, because one thing that the piss, the Steelers don’t trade guys and pile up losses and draft picks, you know, they play to win. And even though it the the Steelers people will say, hey, look, they admitted the playoffs. I think so since 16 or 17. I forgot what’s your. Since then they’ve been in the playoffs five times. They’ll lost each time in the first round. You know that Tomlin has that record of 18 years with without a losing record. Right. But it’s like this is how we do it here. We try to get in the playoffs. You don’t just quit.
David Campbell: And that’s no tear downs for draft picks.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. No, you don’t do that ain’t, you know, the old thing that ain’t right. Play the game the right way. I mean, you could hear him, by the way, on the. The Drawcats I was listening to. They mentioned that Tomlin said the Browns office is an example of chewing with your mouth closed.
David Campbell: Right.
Terry Pluto: I saw they weren’t sure what that meant, whether it was tricky or what. But I think that.
David Campbell: I think it was basically that they don’t let leave things loose out there, like turnovers and. And things like they’re very close to the vest. And that was pretty much.
Terry Pluto: Well, anyway, regardless of how they chew, Tomlin gave us all something to chew about. I think part of it. Yeah, was. I think he and Stefanski certainly do have respect for each other, but also, it’s like, I think he was offended by you doing that. And of course he. Now he did. And he’s thinking, you know, Flacco with those receivers, that could be a problem. Especially because Pittsburgh’s pass defense, at least before they played the Browns, was ranked 30th in yards allowed.
David Campbell: Yeah. It’ll be intriguing on Thursday night to see that matchup because the Steelers are getting healthy and I’d like to see them cover T. Higgins and Jamar Chase with Joe Flacco’s big arms. So it’s going to be. It’ll be worth watching anyway, so.
Terry Pluto: And also. Yeah, and then you see the Browns. I had one person with the Browns tell me that, you know, they do admire the Guardians, you know, the thread, the needle thing the guardians do, which means they try to win and they work their young players in at the same time, and they make it work. This started with Terry Francona, kind of began to use that term first back when he had the job in 13. And they were trying to win and work with young players, and we got to do it this way. And 11 out of 13 years, they did win. The last three of the last four years, they’ve won the Central Division title, et cetera. But it’s extremely hard to do. You know, I think the Browns wanted to try to see if they could do that this way this year. But the early schedule, the other thing, you get hit by that and that really takes you out of that mindset. And it’s like there, because you see the trades being made, and I was told one or two, and Mary Kay wrote it Too. Because we were kind of comparing notes on Sunday because I didn’t know she was writing it. And I did too. We both heard that certainly one more deal is coming and probably two. And that has to do with how they view things now. They do. Like that Campbell kid that they brought in. Tyson Campbell.
David Campbell: Tyson Campbell? Yeah.
Terry Pluto: What do you think of how he played?
David Campbell: I think he’s tough and physical. I think they need to work with him. This is based on one game, obviously, but you know, turning and looking at his ball skills a little bit. I was, I was trying to count. I didn’t get all the way through the game. I was trying to count how many times they put Campbell on DK Metcalf all the time. And again, who’s your best cornerback?
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: Denzel Ward is your best cornerback. And I was into the third. I was, I think I was. Toward the end of the third quarter, they had put Campbell on Metcalf 11 times and they had put Ward on Metcalf five times. On Pat. These are only on passing plays, right? Yeah, they played a zone six times and no individual person. And then a couple other times. I think Grant Delpit had him one time and somebody else had him another time. But I just, I don’t understand. Again, Terry, it goes back to like put your best players on. The other team’s best players especially.
Terry Pluto: They had no other receivers for SeaWorld.
David Campbell: Yeah, he’s all they have.
Terry Pluto: They’re thrown to the fat tight end, the 300 pound tight end.
David Campbell: I mean, he’s something, huh?
Terry Pluto: He’s, He’s a trip. I like him. You looked at that and you go, you better get that, that young man the ball more. I mean, that’s got pretty good hands. And good luck dragging him down.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And I will say Arthur Smith, who’s the offensive coordinator for Pittsburgh, he’s an upgrade. Who is it? Matt Canada, whoever used to be there. That’s a big upgrade. Arthur’s got. Arthur’s got a really nice offense going with a 41 year old quarterback. And probably to Tomlins point he goes, you know, we got a quarterback that’s older than Flacco and now he’s with a kind of a good court, you know, a good court coordinator. And look what we’re doing. And he’s thinking, put Joe over there with the Bengals and they’ve been good on offense with their passing game. I don’t want to see that.
David Campbell: Yeah. And I do want to be clear to you, my numbers are not official and they’re. They weren’t through the whole game.
Terry Pluto: I’m surprised it was five times because every time I looked up on a past of Metcalf, Campbell seemed to be on him. Well, yeah.
David Campbell: And then one time. One time, Ward had covered him. Metcalf going for the middle and got it and stuck his nose in there and knocked the pass away. I thought it was just a better matchup for the Browns, but they wanted to bring in to set up the guy. I mean, they kept talking about this during the broadcast. He’d been. He played a Monday night game.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Got his Browns helmet on Wednesday. And a few days later, he’s guarding the other team’s best receiver twice as much as your guy, who’s supposed to be your best cover guy. Right.
Terry Pluto: So, by the way, I think Campbell’s got some ability in that. That wasn’t. That wasn’t just a throwaway trade.
David Campbell: Oh, no, no.
Terry Pluto: He’ll.
David Campbell: He’ll be fine. I think he’s gonna be good. And they do like, what are you doing? Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And go ahead.
David Campbell: No, I was gonna say. Do you want to talk about Andre Schmidt real quick? Who’s.
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: Quietly putting together a decent first half of the season here right after the opener.
Terry Pluto: Yes. I’m. Because after this real inside how Terry works thing, because when I write my columns, then I email them to Roberta, even on the road. So when. Reason. So she was reading my column and this from Pittsburgh, and then she comes in there she sits first. She sends me a text, says, I’m happy for the kicker. And then. Then she, you know, then she sent it. Since then, the. The corrections, but it’s like, yeah, Guy was three for three. That’s a tough place to kick. In fact, Basel, who’s very good. I don’t know if you saw on one of the field goals he missed that turf. It gets real loose and things. I guess because the University of Pittsburgh also plays there.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And so he. I think he’s missed one extra point, and he’s made all his field goals since that first bad day in the opener. So good for him. I wish we could say good for some other folks, but good for him. The other thing that jumped out to me on tape, even more than when I watched it, is Harold Fannin breaking tackles and things. He is a load. I mean, he is.
David Campbell: He always falls forward at the end of the play.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, he’s big time. I think that kid. I mean, I look at Andrew’s draft, you know, Swishinger is good with the chance, and J.J. watt was raving about him. And I’ll Go with what he says. Junkins. We. I think we all love junkins. Fannin could be the big. I don’t know what to think of Mason Graham. I haven’t watched him enough. I don’t know enough about interior defensive line, but those guys right there, that’s a very, very big positive.
David Campbell: It’s been a good draft. I think the Browns are happy and these guys are all playing and. Except for Shador Sanders, and they’re all contributing, so.
Terry Pluto: Right. I mean, and we’re going to see Shador. So just everybody, you know?
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Rolex.
David Campbell: All right. Do you want to hear my rant, Terry? My football rant? I want to go. Okay. Can you imagine being at a Cavs game and it’s the end of the third quarter and there’s 15 seconds left and the Cavs get the ball and they just stand over the half court line and just dribble the. Dribble the quarter out. And they ask Kenny Atkinson after the game, like, why did you just dribble the ball out at the end of the third quarter? Why didn’t you try and take a shot? And Kenny goes, well, because we were going to get the ball at the start of the fourth quarter. How ridiculous of an answer would that be? Right. But that is what is happening in the NFL these days. Did you see this thing that happened in the jets game the other day?
Terry Pluto: No.
David Campbell: All right, so the jets have the ball. They would lose 13 to 11 to the Broncos. Okay, the jets have the ball with two minutes left at their own 29. They run for six yards. Okay.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Second and four, 155 left. Fields throws the Garrett Wilson for two yards. Denver calls a timeout. Because Denver’s like, all right, if we stop him here, we can get the ball back and try and go down and get some points. So it’s third and two with 148 left. The jets run the ball. Breeze hall runs for one yard. Okay, so it’s fourth and one from the Jets 37. They’re facing fourth and one with 104 left. And Aaron Glenn, the Jets coach, calls a fake punt.
Terry Pluto: What?
David Campbell: And they get it. They get the first down with one minute left. So at that point, Terry, what are you thinking? That they’re going to try and go down the field and get a field right?
Terry Pluto: I mean, what. What? Why? Why would you fake the punt?
David Campbell: Yes. So with one minute left, the jets call a timeout to save clock. Good move. Right? First and 10 from their own 38. Breece hall runs for five yards.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Second and five from the 43 with 44 seconds left, Fields gets sacked. The jets take another timeout with 37 seconds left.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: What do we think there, Terry? When they take the time out, what are they going to try and do?
Terry Pluto: Up to something.
David Campbell: I mean, they’re going to go down the field and try to get a.
Terry Pluto: Goal, throw a pass or something. You know, it just.
David Campbell: Yeah. So the next play with 37 seconds left, it’s third and seven at their own 41.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And the jets, they. Fields throws a pass for 6 yards to get them out near midfield and there’s still 37 seconds left. And they let the clock run out. They just don’t snap the ball.
Terry Pluto: Wow.
David Campbell: And as they’re going off the field, Garrett Wilson is, is going up to Aaron Glenn and saying, like, what are we doing here?
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: The commentators, like, I have never seen anything like this before. And Aaron Glenn’s whole explanation was, we knew we had the ball to start the second half and we didn’t want Denver to get it back and have a chance to get points on us. And it’s like, why are you calling timeouts and why are you running a fake field goal? That was what he said after the game was we knew we were getting the ball back to start the third quarter. And like, I get it, like if you’re on your own 10 yard line and there’s 15 seconds left in the half, the analytics say you are not going to be going down the field in 15 seconds and getting a field goal. I get it. Run the clock out. But they were practically at midfield, had time to make something happen and, and he came back the next day and apologized and said, you know, I regret what happened. I should have thrown a Hail Mary with five seconds left. And it’s like, no, you should have tried to get a field goal by throwing the ball and moving it down the field. That is the point. And the fact that you get the ball at the start the second half.
Terry Pluto: Is, does not matter.
David Campbell: It’s like a completely separate ballgame starting. It’s so nuts to me.
Terry Pluto: And, and especially the way these guys kick now. I mean, definitely they’re kicking 50 to 55 yard field goals like they used to kick 40 yard field goals.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: So you don’t. It’s not like you got to get way down there. I don’t know who their kicker is offhand, but generally I’ll have pretty good range and if you miss, you miss at the end of it. So what? So the other team gets the ball with 12 seconds to go, you know, at your. You’re 47 or something.
David Campbell: Who.
Terry Pluto: Whatever. Who cares? Yeah. Or.
David Campbell: Or there’s a. How many times have we seen pass interference 30 yards up the field and then you. Then you’re on your way and they didn’t even allow that possibility to happen. I just. This is supposed to be one of the best 32 football coaches in the world. And to the reasoning of, like, we didn’t try to get points because we were getting the ball to start the third quarter. It just. It blows my mind. I don’t understand it.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that. And that’s what. You know, the tough thing about that is that also is a thing that gets you fired.
David Campbell: It’s pulling doing something like this.
Terry Pluto: You mean it sticks to you? Yes, because it makes no sense. Because in the end. And he was the guy that couldn’t keep. Keep track of what he was doing at the end of the, you know. Oh, yeah.
David Campbell: And I do have to say that about Kevin Stefanski. Like, he almost all, like, I can’t remember many times, if any, that he has mismanaged the clock at an end of a half or at the end of a game.
Terry Pluto: Like, he was a little straight out with his timeouts in Minnesota, but it was, like I said, a little strange.
David Campbell: You’re right. There was the one in Minnesota where he let 10 or 15 seconds run off, but.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: But you see something like this with the Jets. It’s just the whole double dipping thing. I. I don’t understand it. Like, it’s two separate halves of football.
Terry Pluto: We’re also, I think Aaron going. Glenn didn’t know what he wanted to do. I really believe that that could be it.
David Campbell: Do we want to stay or go?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. He really didn’t know, so he didn’t do anything. It’s kind of it. And that is always a dangerous thing, too. Well, that was a rant. Some capital letters, but I did.
David Campbell: There were capital letters.
Terry Pluto: But the difference between saying it and typing that all out and sending it to people you don’t know.
David Campbell: Yeah. I knew who my audience was and I took them into consideration. Right.
Terry Pluto: There you go.
David Campbell: All right. Hey, if you have any thoughts on anything we’ve been talking about, I just want to mention real quick, sportsleveland.com is our email. You can put Terry’s talk in the subject line. We still have a bunch of emails, Terry, that I. About the guardians and other topics that I will roll into next week’s podcast, so. All right. We want to pay some bills here, right?
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: Okay. Let’s do that we’re going to stop here. We’ll be back in a minute and we’ll talk to you in a second on Terry’s Talk.
Terry Pluto: All right.
David Campbell: We’re back on Terry’s Talking. Hey, you have an event coming up, Terry, on Wednesday, October 22 at 7pm But I think it’s sold out, right?
Terry Pluto: Yes, that’s at the Music Box. It’s a faith night with Regina Brett, former point dealer columnist and myself. And yeah, I got the I was going to promote it and then I got the word from the Music Box. It’s a cool supper club thing and the Flats that don’t promote it anymore is sold out. So anyway, that’s, that’s good. And I’ll having some appearances coming up in November for the new book and some of the places where I will be speaking to take some questions. But we’ll we’ll people with that a little later on. Great.
David Campbell: Yeah. If you did want to check and see if anybody canceled or there’s any more openings, I think the website is musicboxcle.com and they have all kinds of giveaways and stuff there for events. So hopefully something pops open. It might be worth checking so you can get into that event next Wednesday. So. All right. You want to talk some baseball here, Terry?
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: So what have you thought of the baseball playoffs so far? I think we’re heading into game two tonight of the National League with the Dodgers leading the brewers one nothing. And then the Mariners are up two nothing on the Blue Jays and they are back at it on Wednesday night. We’re taping this on Tuesday, late afternoon around 5 o’. Clock. But what have you thought of the baseball playoffs?
Terry Pluto: Well, just look at think of your final four teams. You know, one LA huge market. Toronto is a big market, but it’s not like, you know, a top 10 market or anything. But none of the New York teams, no Boston team, no Chicago team is in the final four. And that’s why the we had a discussion on it and then later about Jose, you’re wasting his career. All that. And where I offer the question are the Yankees wasting Aaron Judge’s career? Been to the World series once in 10 years and lost. How about the Mets with Lindor? Five years, two appearances in the playoffs. That’s it. And you know, what do we mean what is the standard for wasting versus not wasting? What is it we got to win a World Series of the career’s been wasted? I mean, I don’t know. I think people just throw it out because the idea well, they’re not spending a lot of money, so they’re wasting the career. Well, if you spend a lot of money stupidly or you don’t know what you’re doing, isn’t that wasting a career too?
David Campbell: Yeah. There were times when I’ve seen Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner of the White Sox, speak and he says, you, you have to win. You have to spend money. But if you spend money, it doesn’t mean you’re gonna win.
Terry Pluto: Exactly. Yeah, it’s a weird. It’s kind of a weird. Yeah. But the point is there. An executive told me there’s three teams. I basically know how to thread the needle and do it. Milwaukee’s one, Cleveland’s one and Tampa Bay is one. Oakland used to be in that group, but it no longer is and it’s hard to do. But, you know, Pittsburgh tried. I was talking to a guy, discovered the Pirates during. He was in Cleveland for the wild card thing. And, you know, they’ve tried all this stuff and they can’t get it right. And I got Paul Skeins in that, but they just, they could barely find a way to even have a winning record. And so it’s hard. And I guess my point is. Yes. The column I wrote, the Guardian should do two things. Number one is Jose’s got three years left on his contract. 21, 23, 25 million. You gotta, you gotta jack that up, rework it. You could add a fourth year and move a bunch of money up front or something. Just go ahead and do that. You don’t mean you have to go out 10 years, but go and add a year or two or something and move some money up front. Just do it. You already reworked this contract once, so don’t do the. Oh, we don’t redo contracts. You certainly. When you’re Jose Ramirez and you’re a Hall of Famer, that would be my answer. Yeah, we do it for future hall of Famers.
David Campbell: Yeah. If you’re gonna have a statue, you.
Terry Pluto: Get a rework contract, you get a reworked contract. Secondly, they have to get serious about. I, you know, I’m not going to talk about big money on a free agent thing for they’re not. But there are right handed power bats out there to look at. I mean, one is, he’s, you know, do you want to. He’s primarily D.H. rooker from Oakland is a guy who said some home runs and there’s some others that. Whose names do not come to mind. And just like last year where they set out and to determine to add starting pitchers and they made significant trades. They traded Naylor for Slate Saccony and they traded Jimenez for Ortiz. And they will probably have to trade some this time, flip it the other way, trade some pitchers for a hitter. And they have a lot of young starting pitching, which is very attractive. And, you know, the tough thing for them is Ortiz. Who knows if he’s ever going to pitch again or whatever. What’s with him and Class A. Yeah.
David Campbell: And Hoinsey. Paul Owens, our colleague, wrote today that neither Class A nor Ortiz will be allowed to pitch in the Dominican League this winter. That they’ve decided they cannot be part of it because of the investigation and.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that’s a bad sign for those guys.
David Campbell: Yes. Yeah. I. You’re kind of mapping out a little bit of an offseason plan here, Terry. And I, I wanted to ask, what do you think should be the Guardians approach with Stephen Kwon, who. There’s two more years of arbitration, right. That they have team control. And that would leave him. I think he’d be 29 when those two years are over. And what should the Guardians look to do with his deal in terms of years and how much and. And what would you do there if you. If you were trying to put a deal together?
Terry Pluto: The tough thing is it’s hard to find a code, a comparable. Where do you find a guy with three Gold Gloves to probably get his fourth? But he’s. His offense is good but not great, and so how much is that worth? An interesting thing they could do is the same thing they did with Jose is they could say Jose had two years to go on his contract. This is in the spring of 22. And they said, jose, we really want to sign you, but if we can’t get this done now, we are going to trade you. And so, in other words, it puts some urgency to get it done. Maybe that’s what needs to happen here on both sides. Maybe Quan doesn’t care and wants to be traded. I don’t know. He seems pretty happy here, but again, I don’t know. But that might be a way I would go. I don’t have any thoughts in mind if our baseball guys. Are they trying to do a contract for him?
David Campbell: No, not yet. I’m just trying to think like, again, we’ve seen the contracts with Jason Kipnis and that some of the pitchers where it’s like, all right, you’re going to give up your two years. We’ll give it the two years of team control, but you got to give us two more on the end and deals like that. I just. I just get the sense. And again, there’s no reporting involved here, Terry. It’s just my gut feeling. But he grew up near San Francisco and I could totally see him. California people like to play in California.
Terry Pluto: Yes, they do.
David Campbell: Seems like. And I think that that might be more important to him than long term money and security. But I don’t know. He could sign a five year deal with the Guardians tomorrow for all I know. But I just get the sense that he’s going to end up in California somewhere. If not the Giants, then somebody else.
Terry Pluto: It’d be a team that is a team that would want him, but it’s not like a team that’s going to pay him. I think 25 or 30 million a year could be wrong, but I don’t think so. And that’s why I said I think they probably has a little bit of a problem trying to come up with the right type of offer. Now he is. He’s either the team representative or the head of the. Basically the shop steward or the assistant shop steward, one or two. So he’s very into like, you know, the union stuff where Jose’s always operated on his own agenda. I mean, one thing we could tell about Jose, he doesn’t care what anybody thinks.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: I mean, he cares what his teammates think, you know, but like Jimmy told me, felt all that pressure from the union and all this and that Jose didn’t care about any of that stuff. You know, you could talk to them all you want. It’s like, look, man, I’m going to play where I want to play. I’m going to play how I want to play and that. And so they need to. But that’s why you do need to reward that man again. And they, they can do it. You could take another 12 to 15 million dollars and spread it over that contract. It still doesn’t come anywhere close to market value. But it’s a way of saying, look, Jose, you matter to us and we love you.
David Campbell: Yeah. It’s funny, like the way you’re. The way he walks around the field with kind of that little swagger jump, like, that’s the way he walks through contract negotiations.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: It’s like, okay, I’m here, I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do, and then let’s, let’s play.
Terry Pluto: I loved how he was running around with that planet, that Central Division flag.
David Campbell: Oh, yeah.
Terry Pluto: I mean, it’s just like. It’s almost like I dragged these guys up this mountain and I’m planting The flag and he sort of did. But that’s, that’s, that’s what they, they need to do and then they need to get serious about finding a right handed bat. Because if you go and look in the system. All right, who you’ve got all these left handed hitters. Here’s Bazzano and there’s the water and there’s Valera and Burritos, a switch hitter. But for the most part it’s, it’s left handed hitters. They don’t have a big right handed powered bat. I know they drafted this kid, I forgot his name from Oklahoma State, but he hadn’t even played yet a pro game. And it’s. I tell you this, the other thing I would do is I would hand Bazana a glove and put him in right field.
David Campbell: Yeah, they could do a lot worse.
Terry Pluto: I’ll feel a glove because I like Rocchio at second and I thought that turned the defense around and then area still kind of drives me nuts at the plate and everything. But you know, he. And it’s like they started the other way with him at second base and Brochio at short when they flipped it over. That’s a better infield.
David Campbell: All right, so I guess we can talk about the Cavs real quick, Terry. They are opening the season a week from tomorrow, which is the 22nd. It’s the same night as your event with Regina Brett. They’re playing in the Knicks in New York. And then they’re going to be that two days later on the Friday, the 24th, they’re going to be playing at Brooklyn. So two games in New York. We’ve been talking a little bit about this on our Cavs team. It’s like there’s not much point in like talking about records necessarily, but I guess you could talk maybe for a second, Terry, about how many games you think they should win. And but more importantly, what do you think is the most one or two pressing issues that you want to see them work out early in the season? I’m guessing Lonzo Ball is one of those, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. The tough thing for the Cavs is they actually came up with a good plan last year to have the team ready to be ready for the playoffs, at least theoretically, which is your key players playing fewer minutes in the regular season than almost. I think Donovan never played that few. All those guys minutes were down the key players to try and avoid injuries and they had those rest days and everything else. Secondly, use your bench more than JB did. They use the bench more. They did everything that you would want and they still had guys hurt and got beat. That’s the frustrating. Now sometimes what you need to do is say, I still think that was a good plan and maybe we just had bad luck because I don’t have a better plan. What, you want to play more minutes? That’s gonna work. Now you could work on getting them in better condition. Chris Feeder has written about how, which I’m glad that they’re pushing to try to get that ball past the half court line. You know, a little bit how Indiana played in your face more. It isn’t a matter of being tougher physically with throwing elbows and beating guys up. It’s more of just the putting the pressure on the other team by playing at a faster pace. But really they even increased their pace quite a bit from the year before. But I think they think they could play a little faster. So that’s the hard thing about this. Sometimes it’s a very boring discussion of coming back with the core thing and the good ideas you had the year before and giving it another shot.
David Campbell: And we’ve seen teams do that and fail and we’ve seen teams do that and succeed because of different circumstances or whatever.
Terry Pluto: So, yeah, I mean, Boston finally won a title that way where they stayed with their two key guys and, and it paid off in a title. They, they went to that firing up an insane amount of three pointers, you know, almost 45 a game. But they decided this is why we’re going to play. And yeah, they won a title, but they were doing it a couple years before that, not winning the title, but they went that way and they stuck with it. They made some changes with some players around them, but. So I’m anxious to see, I want to see what, you know, they want Mobley to do more handling the ball. They think that’ll help bring it up quicker. The little bit I’ve seen a ball, he’s really good at passing the ball up the floor. I mean, he’ll throw the ball into him. Next thing you know he throws a 40, 40 foot chest pass to somebody on the other side of the half court line. So that’ll be good. But you know, ball, that’s, that’s a risk. How much is he going to stay healthy? Who knows?
David Campbell: Yeah, I mean, you never know if anybody’s going to be healthy going to the playoffs. It’s just things happen.
Terry Pluto: And especially a guy with a real injury history. And also we’ll see. But that turf toe surgery that Garland had, it’s a significant surgery. So we’ll see how he is. And I know the plan is to go with him slowly. And then they’ll have to be careful because Garland’s not playing, not to ride Donovan too heavy because that’s the temptation to do that. So you have Donovan handling the ball, but then the other two guys who are your ball handling guards, your main ones, have injury issues. Garland and ball. That’s where Craig Porter Jr. Comes in. By the way, Tyrese Proctors had some nice moments in preseason games. DeAndre Hunter, really. They must have really just told him go score, because he’s been out looking for that. And I know the thing that I always liked Hunter even going back in that draft. He was in the draft with. With Garland. He was taking believe right before Garland, and. Because that was my guy in that draft. But the thing that some people said about Hunter was that he was kind of passive. He should be better than he is. And so maybe the. I like that, you know, the. The Cavs unlocking Evan Mobley. Now it’s unlocking Hunter. You know, let these guys do more.
David Campbell: Yeah. And you got to be able to roll with whatever comes your way in the playoffs. So all these guys have to be able to do whatever’s called for. And so that’ll help if they can get some of those guys games rounded out. Hey, Terry, I wanted to spend a minute here talking about your faith in you. Colin from lat from a week and a half ago. You wrote about the David Fry, Tarek Skubal.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Thing that happened where school’s fastball wrote up and hit David Fry in the face and the aftermath and how school drove to the hospital with Stephen Vode after that game. Did you any reaction to that column? And I thought it was a really. We always. We always look at sports and it’s like these intense rivalries and playoff stakes on the line. And I think the human part of it is sometimes forgotten. And I think you really captured that with that column, that faith in you column.
Terry Pluto: Not too many people emailed me, which surprised me. Now, the numbers online were very big. This thing was clearly being passed around.
David Campbell: Yeah. Doesn’t surprise me. It resonated with people, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. And it’s like, what do they talk about there? What really struck me, Skubal told the story at the press conference is he was telling Vote how bad he felt. I mean, he didn’t mean to hit him. I mean, Fry squared around a bunt, which put him closer to the plate. Scuba throws 99 miles an hour with a rising fastball. And it just Took off and hit him in the face. And then, interesting vote, says, well, I’ve been kicking myself. I called the bunt.
David Campbell: I hadn’t even thought of that.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, yeah. And he said, I called the bunt. And so they were kind of this moment of silence there. It’s like, yeah. He goes, it happened. You know, you hate to say it happens, but it happens. And you know, you could just see Scubal’s face and everything after he hit Fry and then reaching out and Vo said, you know, he heard the Scuba wanted to go to the hospital. Where was he? And so he just said, well I’m going over there now, just bring him over. And they ended up talking about their kids and other stuff. And Fry was like, look, it’s not your fault. I mean, thankfully Fry’s had this nasal surgery or whatever, but he could have been just demolished by that.
David Campbell: Oh, could have been a lot worse.
Terry Pluto: So it’s really there. The faith com, by the way, that’s been bringing in, it’s well over 100 emails now. More. Because I wrote a column about my friend Gloria Williams who passed away the two year anniversary of her death was October 6th, and how I went to her grave with some members of her family and I’m not big on visiting graves, but we decided to do it and kind of talked about, told Gloria stories and prayed over her grave and that was it. And so I just kind of wrote it and I said, people, do you. How do you feel about visiting cemeteries or graves? I’ve got, I think it’s about 150 emails now. This upcoming faith comm is some of them, but they just keep coming in and it’s fascinating from I don’t do it or I sometimes go to cemeteries just because it’s quiet. It’s, it’s really into something when people goes, I just go there to talk to my mom and think about my mom. And I really like that. I didn’t realize it was such a, a subject that just clearly resonated with a lot of people. That’s the nice thing about the Faith column was I could write different things. A few years ago the only one of the response matched this was a few years ago I wrote about the guys that hold up the signs. Do you give them money? I don’t give them money or whatever.
David Campbell: Right, money for food and all that.
Terry Pluto: I’ll hold the sign for food and I’ll take some cash too, whatever it is. And that came in, you know, all over the place with that. Where I ended up. I think I Wrote the original column and then I think I had two. Two follow ups. So that’s. That’s been a title.
David Campbell: One of your books.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Man with the sign. Right? The guy with a sign.
Terry Pluto: Oh, yeah. Less Faith Book Collector. My Faith writing. Yeah.
David Campbell: All right. Again, if you want to check out any of Terry’s faith and sports stuff, it’s all@cleveland.com Pluto and while you’re there, you can check out a way to sign up for Terry’s newsletter. Just go to the Blue Bar at the Top. And Terry’s newsletter comes out every Wednesday.
Terry Pluto: And you could go to terrypolito.com I think they have a bunch of stuff up on how to get the new book. And I signed over 400 of them this weekend, so they have plenty of signed copies at the warehouse there. And that’s one way going through great, great company publishing of getting a. Guaranteed to get an autographed book, because I don’t know what’s going to be with stores and that. By the way, people who think about writing books and publishing these stats are, I don’t know, five or seven years old, but they think all these books sell, like, millions of copies. 90% of all books sell fewer than 10,000 copies.
David Campbell: 90%, wow.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. And I have seen 75% sell fewer than 5,000 copies. Is kind of like when you watch a movie and there’s like four or five big actors making all the money and all the rest are. They’re like day jobs. You know, they’re getting paid by the day.
David Campbell: Right.
Terry Pluto: Or piecework. Well, when you walk into a bookstore, I mean, you basically just see this, you know, the star authors, and they see some other books scattered about, but there’s just tons of other books being published. And so it’s one of those things I always tell people that I’ve asked MP why don’t you just quit and write books? Well, first of all, I love the immediacy of journalism. You write the story, you see it right away and react to that. But secondly, it’s kind of a stupid economic move. I mean, it’s fine for John Grisham and these people, but not for me. And I often AM in that 90%, you know, above that 10,000 figure. But not. I’m not a hundred thousand, I’m not 50,000. So it’s. It’s fascinating to look at. And you can often take, oh, anywhere from 250 to 350 a book that’s sold and that’s kind of about the author’s share of it. So if you start doing the math, you see where it is. It’s a great sidelight is what it is. Or suppose you just wanted to publish a book. It’s easy to self publish these days. You could do it. Roberta did work with her mom, wanted to do a family history before she. About two years before she died. And so what we did, she worked with her mom and they got the little stories. It was about 40 or 50 pages and we self published it. And I think we did like 40 or 50 copies for people in the family and it was really nice. Yeah, you know, there’s nothing wrong with doing. You don’t have to do something commercial.
David Campbell: Self publishing is easier than ever. Yes, it is a lot of options. So, yeah.
Terry Pluto: Now, the tough thing about self publishing is how to get your book out there and get it sold. But you can certainly get it published. Yeah.
David Campbell: Well, Terry, we’re glad you’re doing journalism and books. We get to read you right away and then we get to sit on the couch.
Terry Pluto: Nothing better than my podcast with Dave Campbell.
David Campbell: There you go.
Terry Pluto: I mean, when you really want to.
David Campbell: Be in book form, let’s make our book out.
Terry Pluto: You really want to take media to his highest level.
David Campbell: That’s right.
Terry Pluto: This is it.
David Campbell: All right, well, on that note, we’re going to wrap up. Terry. We have a email here from Kenneth Kevin in Oakland. Kevin’s a longtime listener and he says, oh, this is awful. You remember a couple weeks ago, Terry, we were talking about baseball and how you’re never out of it until the last out, Right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: What? That’s one of the things that makes baseball. I think we. I think I was saying that’s why it’s the greatest sport. But Kevin says, hey, David and Terry, longtime reader of Terry back to the Akron Beacon Journal and big fan of the podcast. Thanks for your good work. Thanks, Kevin. While I agree with you and share that my. The feeling that baseball is my favorite sport, don’t forget about the great game of tennis. It’s also a sport where you’re never out of it. So as long as you’re out there competing, I love both sports for that reason. Go guards. Thanks for that, Kevin. That’s a good point. I had not thought of that. And man, I remember back when I was a kid, like tennis was, you get up in the morning and watch Wimbledon and stuff. And Kevin’s right, there’s some great drama there. Some of those bjork, Bjorn, Borg, McEnroe matches and Jimmy Connors and all that. And they’re still today. There’s some we saw some great matches this year at some of the majors.
Terry Pluto: And there were no ghost runners in tennis.
David Campbell: That’s true. They don’t allow it in the playoffs. Only people who grab the the ball, then the ball people.
Terry Pluto: Right. But I’m saying, yeah, they don’t set it up to kind of move it along. You know.
David Campbell: It ends when it ends.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: So thanks for that, Kevin. And again, if you want to hit us with an email on your thoughts, questions, comments, anything. Sportsleveland.com and put Terry’s talking in the subject line. So. All right, I think we’re set here, right, Terry?
Terry Pluto: That is it.
David Campbell: And as we had a Les Levine mention earlier in the podcast, as Les Levine would say, of all the podcasts we’ve done, what this is the most recent, right?
Terry Pluto: This is the most of all the podcasts I’ve ever done. Pause. This is the most recent.
David Campbell: All right, everybody, thanks for listening. We will catch you next week. Terry’s talking.
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