CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor break down their takeaways from the Cavs’ preseason.
Takeaways:
The Emerging Role and Impact of Lonzo Ball
Lonzo Ball’s performance in the preseason finale was a significant point of discussion, highlighting why he was a crucial offseason acquisition for the Cavaliers. While he may have lost some of his elite athleticism due to past injuries, he compensates with an exceptionally high basketball IQ, court vision, and elite passing ability. Kenny Atkinson noted that Ball can make difficult passes that few others in the league would even attempt. His role will be to use his craftiness and feel for the game to facilitate the offense and make things easier for his teammates. The organization appears to have a clear understanding of who Ball is at this stage of his career, valuing his mental acuity over pure speed, with the hope that he can stay healthy and play around 60 games this season.
A New Rotational Strategy Without Darius Garland
The absence of guard Darius Garland to start the season has forced the Cavaliers to alter their rotational strategy, particularly concerning their two stars, Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. Last season, the team made a concerted effort to play Mitchell and Mobley together as much as possible. However, this year they will stagger their minutes more frequently to ensure a high-usage player is always on the court. When Mitchell rests, the offense will run primarily through Mobley, giving him more freedom and opportunities to expand his offensive game. This strategic shift is designed to maintain offensive pressure throughout the game while managing the roster’s current limitations.
Dean Wade’s Crucial, Yet Understated, Importance
Despite often being the “forgotten man,” Dean Wade is set to play a vital and consistent role for the Cavaliers. He is considered the 7th or 8th man in the rotation and is expected to provide stability and defensive versatility for 20-24 minutes per night. His ability to guard multiple positions and contribute to defensive rebounding is highly valued. The main focus for Wade is building and maintaining offensive confidence. Teammates, like Donovan Mitchell, and the coaching staff are actively working to empower him, stressing that his willingness to take open shots is a “necessity” for the team’s success. This season is pivotal for Wade, both for the team’s ambitions and his own future.
De’Andre Hunter’s Defined Role at Small Forward
The Cavaliers are making a purposeful effort to play newcomer De’Andre Hunter primarily at the small forward position (the 3) rather than at power forward (the 4), where he spent the majority of his minutes last season. After internal review, the organization concluded that both Hunter and the team were more successful when he played alongside two traditional bigs. This commitment to maximizing Hunter’s minutes at his natural position better fits his skillset and improves the team’s effectiveness on both ends of the floor. This adjustment helps clarify roles within the rotation and is expected to fully utilize Hunter’s strengths.
A Higher Defensive Ceiling and Evolving Team Identity
While the Cavaliers’ high-powered offense remains a cornerstone of their identity, the team’s defensive potential without Darius Garland is a major storyline. The speakers noted that the team’s defensive rating was significantly better last season when Garland was off the floor. With more size and length in the backcourt — featuring players like Sam Merrill and Lonzo Ball alongside Donovan Mitchell — the Cavs have the personnel to be a peskier, more disruptive defensive unit. Donovan Mitchell has set a tone with his defensive intensity in the preseason, and the team’s stated goal is to become a top-five defensive team. This dual-threat potential could elevate them into true championship contention.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, none other than Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Cavs beat reporter and we are coming to you after the Cavs first preseason win against an NBA opponent since 2022. Chris, obviously we understand that the Cavs dismantled the Detroit Pistons. 118-100. It was not the full roster. When it comes to the Pistons, the Cavs did what they were supposed to do. They did not take their foot off the gas, even though they were experimenting throughout the game. The end result is what we all expected because of who the Pistons had on the floor. Chris, what were your biggest takeaways from tonight’s game? Obviously, it was the preseason finale for the Cleveland Cavaliers. We didn’t want to look too much into it, but I feel like we learned a good bit from this preseason.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, I think there were a couple of things, I think, obviously, if you’re looking for answers on the rotation, those who are right in front of you, the starting lineup is set. It’s going to be Donovan Mitchell, Sam Merrill, DeAndre Hunter, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen. The other guys in the rotation are obvious. I think they’re going to play 10, I would say, at the beginning of the year, and then Tyrese Proctor becomes the number 11 guy. So if you were looking for those answers, you got those tonight. Kenny Atkinson said before the game, Ethan, that he was treating it kind of like a dress rehearsal, very similar to a regular season game, trying to simulate different things that the Cavs are going to do throughout the course of the regular season. And I think the other thing that. That stood out to me is Samuel didn’t play in the first three preseason games. He’s one of the new additions to the starting lineup. How’s it going to look with him? What can his movement bring to that, that starting group, his shooting, his gravity, his playmaking, even you saw evidence of just how he can fit alongside the other four starters for the Cavs. And then coming off the bench, I thought Lonzo Ball showed glimpses of why he’s going to be so important to the success of this team and why he was such a big pickup for them in the off season. It’s not a splashy move. It wasn’t anything significant in terms of the kind of summer that the Cavs had. It’s. It’s not one that people are going to be talking about because it didn’t, um. It didn’t raise eyebrows. The same way that Kevin Durant going to Houston does or some of these other splashier moves. But for the Cavs that were looking to try and improve on the margins, getting Lonzo was a big deal. And you saw glimpses of just the many ways, not just the one way, but the many ways that he can have an impact, a positive impact for this team.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. So let’s start there. Chris Lonzo Ball, Obviously the acquisition was a big move for the Cleveland Cavaliers when it comes to removing someone who had been with the team for five years and Isaac Okora, who was drafted by the organization. That was an organizationally based big move, even though, as you mentioned, it wasn’t a splashy move when it comes to the NBA. But Lonzo tonight, I feel like it was clear cut, the best performance he’s had with the Cleveland Cavaliers when it comes to a preseason showing. And it was because of his passing. Right. And obviously the defensive acumen was there as well. But some of the passes that he was making were simply very hard, very difficult to make. And Kenny Atkinson even referenced them after the game saying that he is one of the few players that can make some of the passes that were made tonight. And I think the transition game, when we talk about Lonzo Ball, is perfect for the fit in the scheme that the Cavs have set in place because there will be times where the receiver of a pass doesn’t even know it’s coming to him until it hits him in the hands or hit him in his chest. Because Lonzo is just using his IQ and predictability to know where the opposition is going to be at and where his teammate should be on the floor as well. And I think that the passing portion of it is going to be super helpful. But Chris, we also mentioned in an earlier episode after the first preseason game that he looked a little slow when it came to how he was moving today. It didn’t necessarily seem like he was moving at 100% speed, but it felt like he had more of a flow state when he was going into the offensive sets. He had a more fluidness to him when it comes to the defensive end of the floor as well. Do you agree with that or you think he was still a little choppy?
Chris Fedor: Well, here’s the thing, and I’ve been thinking about this since the preseason opener and just asking myself, you know, how much does it matter and what kind of speed quickness do we expect to see from Lonzo throughout the course of this regular season? I think on one hand, yeah, he’s still kind of getting his legs underneath him. I still think he’s getting into game shape. I think he’s trying to manage the regular season as best as he can, and the Cavs are going to manage the regular season as best as they can from Alonzo perspective. The other thing is, I don’t know. It’s going to matter in certain matchups, obviously, but when you have a guy who thinks the game so well, who is steps ahead of the defense from a mental standpoint and who sees things before they can happen, that can make up for maybe a little lost athleticism, that can make up for maybe a little lost quickness. You know, he’s never going to be a guy at this stage of his career with all the injuries that he’s had. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a guy that’s going to blow by guys off the dribble. But can he be crafty when it comes to that? Ty Jerome, same way. If you think about him last year, it was his craftiness, it was his shiftiness, it was that slowdown step that he had catching opponents off guard. You just have to find a way to win. You have to find a way to be successful. And for Lonzo, if he doesn’t have that premier athleticism anymore and it doesn’t look like he does does, and if he does look a little bit slower than some of these teams and some of these players that the Cavs are going to go against, then how do you still have success? For him, it’s with his mind. It’s with his basketball iq. It’s being able to see things that the defense is trying to take away from him or take away from the team and counter those things. It’s being able to make passes that very few players in the NBA even think about making. Not that they can make them or can’t make them, but even attempt to make or think about. He had a couple of those where you just understood his feel for the game, and that’s something that can certainly separate him and Donovan Mitchell. Ethan, I think he said it really, really well. I think he. He talked about Lonzo in the post game and he was saying, hey, this is a guy who not only does he impact winning, but he just makes things easier on his teammates. And Lonzo, it felt like, was making things easier for Dean Wade when he was out there. It felt like Lonzo was making things easier for Evan Mobley when he was out there and all the other guys that he was sharing the floor with. And that’s if you have those kinds of expectations of Lonzo, then I think you’re going to be really, really happy. If you’re somebody who expects him to be this athletic marvel really, really fast, create a whole bunch of separation and stuff, you’re probably going to be disappointed. But I think the Cavs have a full picture of who Lonzo is at this stage of his career and how he blends into the fabric of this team and how he can help this basketball team, and they’re going to continue to try and tap into those things over and over and over again.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, a couple of things on that. The. The passing decisions that he can make. Right. Kenny Atkinson also went into the fact that the passes that he is able to make also gives him grace for the passes that he shouldn’t make. There was a pass earlier in today’s game where he tried to go full court and do a quarterback pass over the shoulder, and it just simply fell short and into the defender’s hands. Right. And sometimes you might look at that and be like, all right, why would you do that? But also, on the other hand, if that play goes through and. And it falls into the hands of his teammate, everybody is hooting and hollering about the success of it, Right. And also to your point, Chris, about the Dean Wade and Lonzo Ball combination, when we talk about the rotation, if people were paying attention, Lonzo Ball and Dean Wade were coming to the game at consistent moments, right? They were paired together in the rotation. Maybe because it was a defensive scheme, maybe it was because of what Lonzo Ball can do when it comes to creating space for Dean Wade and getting him wide open looks, which we know he’s more comfortable taking. That’s something we’ll get into later. But also, just what Lonzo Ball can do for others. As Donovan, as you mentioned, I think it’s super important when it comes to this team. And also, just also thinking about the pace of things and what Jamie Bickerstaff, who was in the building tonight, kind of pushed on the Cavs was getting the ball off the floor by using their feet. I know that there were times, obviously before injuries where Lonzo Ball had this super athleticism and was driving by people and all these other things. But when I think of the pace that Lonzo Ball always had in his career, it wasn’t necessarily just running by people in the fast break in transition. It was more so, oh, yeah, he’s going to get the ball ahead and he’s not going to have it in his hands for too long. It’s like an effective quarterback, right? You have three seconds to get rid of the ball, and if you get rid of it in less than 2, it’s even better. So I do think there are so many different things when it comes to the schematic improvements that Lonzo Ball is going to be able to bring to this Cavs team. And I’m excited to see it and see what this next chapter of him is going to mean for him. Because obviously this is also kind of a comeback season for him from all the injuries that he’s dealt with over the last years. And I hear from him after talking to him, the magic number for him is 60. And trying to get the 60 games played this year.
Chris Fedor: I mean, you brought up the rotation and the lineups and the substitution patterns and all that kind of stuff. And look, some of this stuff still needs to play itself out. Ethan and Kenny’s going to continue to experiment. And he was playing around with lineups and combinations throughout the course of this preseason game. He was going super big with some of them. He was sliding guys into positions where they’re probably not fully accustomed to, but he just kind of wanted to see what works, what doesn’t work. And obviously you’re not going to have every answer that you want to have going into the regular season because you played four exhibitions. But I do think the Lonzo Dean thing, when they go into the game together, I do think that’s purposeful. I don’t think it’s, I don’t think you have to go too overboard with it. But it’s clear that the Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley minutes are going to be split at the beginning of the year. More split certainly than what they were last year. Last year, the Cavs went into a plan. It was purposeful. They wanted to keep Donovan and Evan together as much as they possibly could. And if you look at, at the minutes that Donovan played last year and the minutes that Evan Mobley played last year, how many they played with each other was a significant number. And they wanted Donovan to empower Evan. They wanted to, to get Donovan on the court with Evan so that it gave Evan more space and vice versa and all that kind of stuff. But when you don’t have Darius Garland at the beginning of the year and you don’t have Max Stru, two guys that were going to be in the starting lineup for the Cavs, it changes the way that you can do things with lineups and combinations. And so instead of keeping the two high usage players, Donovan and Evan, on the floor at all times, you’re going to have to stagger them. And the minutes that Donovan’s not going to be out there, primarily Evan is going to be. Because you want somebody that the offense can run through. You want somebody that can be such a big focal point, a high usage guy. And I think the minutes without Donovan are going to give Evan a little bit more freedom to explain are different facets of his offensive game. You might have minutes where Donovan’s on the bench and DeAndre Hunter is in the game alongside Evan Mobley and they kind of share the offensive responsibility. But, I mean, I think it’s purposeful bringing in Lonzo and Dean together because it seems like that’s the point where Donovan’s going to get his first quarter break and Jared Allen’s going to go to the bench as well, so that you stagger Jarrett and. And Evan and you stagger Donovan and Evan and Lonzo’s gonna replace Donovan and take some of those ball handling responsibilities and Dean’s gonna go in there because I think the Cavs are really, really committed, Ethan, to trying to keep DeAndre Hunter’s minutes at the three as much as they possibly can. Last year, for some reason, the majority of his minutes were spent at the fourth. And I think one of the things that the Cavs noticed in doing a lot of research and looking back on last year is that those weren’t as successful for the Cavs. Those weren’t as successful for DeAndre. He was such a team player. He was coming into a new environment. He didn’t want to say, well, yeah, play me at the 3 more than the 4, or I’m more comfortable at the 3 than the 4. But the Cavs offensively and defensively were better with DeAndre alongside two bigs, as opposed to him being one of the bigs. It just fits his skill set a little bit better. And I think they’re, they’re very committed to trying to, to maximize the number of minutes that DeAndre plays at the three, and keeping two bigs around him instead of just one. And that second big, for all intents and purposes, is, is going to be Dean Wade. Evan Mobley is going to be the backup five, and then Dean Wade’s going to come in and he’s going to be the backup four in those lineups. So I do think that’s something that the Cavs are going to continue to dig into. But, but it is notable, I think, throughout the course of training camp and throughout the course of the preseason. At the beginning of the year, While the Cavs do not have Darius Garland, the minutes without Donovan Mitchell are going to belong primarily to Evan Mobley. And then when it’s time for Donovan to come back in, then Evan’s probably going to go to the bench. And most of the time that those two guys at the beginning of the season share the floor is, you know, at the start of quarters, at the start of the second half, and then to finish games and stuff like that.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, and just a quick antidote on our conversations in the locker room with DeAndre about obviously checking in on him, who, because he did not play in the second half because of a knee to knee collision that resulted in a right knee contusion that had him sidelined for the remainder of the second half, did not even come out of the locker room. I didn’t see him on the bench.
Chris Fedor: For the second half.
Ethan Sands: He said he’s fine. He said he’s going to be able to go in the season opener in New York a week from tomorrow. All is good in that department. But as you mentioned, Chris, we were talking a little bit about the rotations and the different alignments and lineups that Kenny Atkinson was tinkering with. The Cows went with a super big lineup this evening where they had DeAndre Hunter, Dean Wade, Larry Nash Jr. And Evan Mobley. And I think they even switched out Evan Mobley for Jared Allen at one point as well. Whoever was at point guard, it really didn’t matter because you were supported by all of these guys on the defensive end. But DeAndre Hunter did not even realize that he was technically the two man in that scenario because of the other players, he was shorter than them. So I. I just thought it was a simple but also funny little moment with DeAndre, because I asked him the question and he didn’t even realize it. But some things happen quicker than you can process them.
Chris Fedor: I think the thing that stands out to me, Ethan, is when the Cavs are going to be playing the first part of the regular season without Darius, they’re going to be able to do some of these kinds of things. They’re going to be able to be different in terms of style and in terms of look, and that doesn’t mean that they’re better without Darius. I want to make that clear. I think we’re still waiting for that answer. We’re still waiting for a definitive conclusion on that particular question, but at the very least, they’re different. And the kinds of lineups that they can use, especially with the size, because it’s not two smaller guards. Donovan Mitchell for a point guard, I mean, that’s different. Donovan Mitchell is a two guard. That’s also different. And the other players that you can put around him instead of Darius, think about that size, think about that length. If it’s Lonzo Ball, I mean, we’re talking about a super sized guard next to Donovan Mitchell. If it’s Sam Merrill, we’re talking about 6, 5, 6, 6. So there’s even without Max Struse in the starting lineup and DeAndre Hunter in his place, that’s different. You feel that in a different kind of way. You see that in a different kind of way. When you look out there and you look at these lineups and these combinations and the opponent is going to feel that too. And I think the opponent’s going to be more bothered by that. I, I don’t think it’s going to end up being a coincidence that at the beginning of this season, without Darius Garland, the Cavs are going to be a really good defensive team. They’re going to be tough. They’re going to make things very difficult on opponents. Opponents are going to look like they’re out of the flow and out of rhythm. Now, it might not be every single night, but there’s just a different kind of defensive ceiling that the Cavs can have when Darius is not out there next to Donovan. Again, I’m not saying better overall, but different. And you saw Kenny kind of tinkering with that and you saw the kind of size and length that they could put out there on the floor. It’s going to make things more difficult for these opponents. It’s going to allow the Cavs to do different things at both ends of the floor that they really can’t do when they’re almost beholden to a certain kind of look and a certain kind of lineup setup.
Ethan Sands: And a big portion of that, Chris, is because of Dean Wade and his flexibility and what he can do and can play. And especially on the defensive end, right? It’s at six foot nine and a half, six foot ten. You can put him at the three, four or even the five. As we’ve seen last year, Obviously the Cavs went and got more frontcourt depth to also help Dean Wade not have to go through the situations where he has to play the five man as much as he did last season.
Chris Fedor: I think to further that point, Ethan, if, if you just look at the Cavs roster as a whole, and I’m looking at it right now, I would say that there are only two one position players on this roster, maybe three Jared Allen’s a one position player. He’s not playing power four. He’s not doing anything but playing center and that’s fine. He’s got a skill set. It’s his skill set. It translates to winning. It makes the Cavs a very good basketball team. Darius Garland’s a one position player to me, and then Thomas Bryant is probably a 1 position player. I can’t see him playing 4 or anything along those lines. That would be tough. Is he gonna play four next to Evan Mobley as a five? If he’s playing next to Larry Nance Jr. He’s not. He’s not the four and that’s. He’s the five. So you only have like three to me, you only have three one position players and it just gives you, it gives you more lineup flexibility and it allows Kenny Atkinson to be a little bit more creative when one of those guys is pulled out of the mix. And that being Darius.
Ethan Sands: Just to go back to what I was saying about Dean, I think while there are multiple players who can play multiple positions, especially defensively, I think he’s one of the most versatile when it comes to what Kenny Atkinson feels comfortable putting him in different positions because of not only his height and his size, but also his ability to move his feet as quick as some guards. And there are conversations throughout the Cavs organization where they are confident with. Depending on the point guard, say it’s Kate Cunningham. Dean Wade could technically guard one through five in that scenario. Right. But I think the biggest thing that we’ve always known about Dean Wade is the offensive end. How is that going to translate? How are you going to make an impact to the point where we can justify you being on the court and being a continuous and consistent factor on the defensive end if you’re not producing on the offensive end. And I think tonight we saw a glimpse of what he needs to do on a consistent basis. Right? Whether or not that’s taking the open shots, because those are curated and directed by Lonzo Ball. Thank you very much, Lonzo, for setting those up. Or you now get into a situation where players are closing out on you. You punk, fake, you get to the lane and then you create for somebody else if necessary. Or as Donovan Mitchell said, the one thing he was frustrated with him was on a transition play where you get the ball, you’re by one on one with somebody that’s not even your size and you don’t take the layup right, you need to take those opportunities. He goes, one, two. It fuels confidence and two, that’s an open bucket. And the Cavs in this season, especially on the offensive end, cannot afford to give up or not convert on easy chance points. And the one thing with Dean Wade that we continuously talked about is confidence. And Kenny Atkinson was pretty blunt when I asked him about it today, saying that there’s no hesitation with him anymore and that’s not a want, it’s a necessity. They need him to do that. They can’t ask him to do it on any given night when he’s on the floor. It has to translate to that because if, as I was mentioning, if you can’t produce on the offensive end, it’s hard to justify, especially with the lack of offensive production that they have already without Darius Garland and Max Drew in the lineups on a regular basis to start the season.
Chris Fedor: I think in a lot of cases, Ethan Dean Wade feels like the forgotten man in this rotation. But, but if the preseason has shown anything, if training camp has shown anything, it’s that he’s going to have a pretty important role and he’s going to be a fixture of the every night rotation. So forget the off season trade rumors, forget flashing forward to February and whether or not the Cavs are going to consider, you know, offers for Dean if, if they feel like they’re not going to be able to bring him back following this season in free agency. Are they going to try and maximize his value and get an asset or two or whatever? Forget all those conversations because we’re about to start the regular season and Dean Wade is guy number seven or eight in this rotation. That’s a pretty important role. He’s probably, if he continues to be confident, if he continues to be something close to a plus on the offensive end, we all know what he brings defensively, we all know what he brings from a versatility standpoint on the defensive end of the floor. We all know what he brings from a rebounding perspective. The team is a better defensive rebounding team. When Dean’s out there, he does a lot of little things that contribute to winning basketball. So forget all that stuff that we had the conversations about this off season and his importance. It has shown throughout camp and throughout the preseason that he is going to have a consistent, important role in this every night rotation and Kenny Atkinson is going to put his trust and his belief and his faith in Dean to be a multi positional player, to be a two way impact player and to give consistency, stability and steadiness for about 20 to 24 minutes a night. That’s what they’re going to ask of him on a nightly basis, especially when Max Stru continues to recover from his off season foot issue. So it’s going to be up to Dean, you know, to continue to stay confident, to continue to take the shots when they are there, to continue to be something close to a plus offensive player that can compliment the, the impact that he can make on the defensive end of the floor. And if he does that, then all of those questions about his value to this team and whether he’s going to get traded in February, all that stuff will take care of itself.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I do want to make one one point because while we did have these conversations about Dean Wade potentially being traded because those were rumors that were out there that needed to be talked about, we were also one of the only podcasts having the discussion of should Dean Wade be the starting small forward if the CAVS decide that DeAndre Hunter is best suited to come off the bench?
Chris Fedor: Well, that’s because I’m on the podcast and I’ve been talking positively about Dean Wade for three years now.
Ethan Sands: The mayor of Dean Wade island, for sure. That’s right. I do think it’s so important what Dean Wade brings to this team. But I also know that we’ve talked so much about how the entire organization, the entire team has tried to empower Evan Mobley. I think the second person on that list that gets the most empowerment is Dean Wade, which is funny to think about because as you mentioned, he’s sometimes in the background of conversations. But tonight, and I quote, Donovan Mitchell said he’s one of the best shooters, one of the best defenders in this league, and he goes out and he shows it every night. And while the last part of that conversation is up for debate, I do think that Donovan saying that, that Kenny continuously preaching and begging and pleading with Dean Wade to simply take the open shots, have confidence in yourself because we have confidence in you, says a lot about what this team believes he can do and what he’s capable of. And we’ve talked a lot about Dean Wade’s contract situation on previous podcasts, but also the fact that he is the longest tenure cavalier outside of Darius Garland on this team. And as we know of this organization, they like taking care of their guys. They like being able to repay those that have put in the time, put in the effort, and then also made that count on the court. So while this is a big year for a lot of players on this team, there may not be more put on this season than what Dean Wade is going to accomplish because of the role that he’s going to be given in the beginning of the season because of what he can accomplish and because of the empowerment from the entire organization and the expectation of what he could do because of the belief that they’ve had since he got to this organization.
Chris Fedor: I think the empowerment thing is an important point because you start to understand the guys that you share a locker room with, or in the case of Kenny Atkinson, you start to understand these players on a deeper level. What kinds of things can I say that are going to resonate? How do I get through to these guys? And what Donovan Mitchell needs from Kenny Atkinson is very different than what Craig Porter Jr. Needs from Kenny Atkinson or Dean Wade needs from Kenny Atkinson. And I think it’s become clear over the last couple of years that players inside that locker room and coaches believe that that Dean needs to be pumped up, that that Dean needs to be told and reaffirmed of his place inside this organization. And his confidence can waver. We have seen that over and over and over again. And I think the Cavs understand, you know, the best way to get the best out of Dean is to continue to reinforce how much we believe in him and how much we have confidence in him. And if we continue to express that to him, maybe he’ll start to believe it himself. Because I think sometimes there. There’s evidence of Dean doubting that, doubting his place within the organization, doubting his importance on this team, doubting the kind of role that he has for this team. Sometimes, Ethan, he even downplays his own role. He even downplays his own importance. So I think the Cavs are saying, hey, we believe in. We trust you. You are important to our success. You need to start to believe that, too. You can’t stop believing that. And I don’t think it’s by accident that. That Donovan has said over and over and over again the one thing that I tell him every single day when he’s in the gym by himself, you are the best shooter in the NBA. Dean’s not. Everybody with a brain knows that he’s not. He’s not Stephen Curry, okay? But Donovan wants him to think like that. And I think that’s just another example of Donovan’s leadership and Donovan’s willingness to empower teammates and maybe get more out of them than what they think is. Is there for themselves.
Ethan Sands: And the last thing I want to talk about on. On today’s podcast, Chris, you got into it there, Donovan’s leadership and also just the identity of this team, right?
Chris Fedor: We.
Ethan Sands: We kind of came into this year, knowing that their defense was going to have to be on a different level because their offense was simply going to be lacking two of their highest scores and to start the season. So their defense was going to have to take a step up. And obviously, after the Indiana Pacers series, the expectation for that was already going to be there. But Donovan Mitchell in the preseason finale was scrappy, trying to get his hand in the. In the cookie jar of every player in front of him and also playing the gaps, as he always does. And that’s another thing that Lonzo Ball does well, which is playing the gaps. But Donovan Mitchell fouling out in a preseason game because he wanted to set the tone defensively, wanted to show the importance for his team of the intensity required. And obviously, Kenny Akinson admitted some of those fouls could have been taken back because you don’t want to foul out, especially if you’re the best player on the court. But it was the leadership mentality, it was the why of doing it. And also, I think for Donovan Mitchell, I think he’s trying to ramp up himself to realize that, okay, of course I can get a bucket whenever I need to, but I also have to bring it every night on the defensive end because my team is going to need that from me. And as Kenny Atkinson has mentioned, they’re still looking for a ball stopper guard. They’re still looking for somebody who can be a stopper defensively. And sure, Donovan Mitchell thinks he can do everything on the basketball court. Maybe he wants to take that upon himself. Probably not. But we know how Donovan thinks. And if he can set the precedent for somebody else to step up and do that role, that’s the way he leads. That’s the way he would want it to go.
Chris Fedor: Well, there’s also another layer to this that we can’t ignore. Donovan Mitchell plays defense, and he takes risks on defense. Like a guy who has Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to protect who, and it helps him. It allows him to play defense a different kind of way. It allows him to be physical, it allows him to take chances, it allows him to gamble into the passing lanes. If he didn’t have Jared and Evan to protect him or erase those mistakes, then he probably goes about defense a different kind of way. And the Cavs as a whole go about defense a different kind of way. That shows the impact of. Of Evan Mobley. That may not show up in the stat sheet. That shows the impact of Jared Allen. That may not show up in the stat sheet. And the same goes for Lonzo Ball If Lonzo is going to be out there and he’s going to be sharing the floor with Evan Mobley, that allows him to take more risk, that allows him to gamble more, that allows him to try and get out in those passing lanes. What a benefit for somebody like Lonzo to be able to do that. What a benefit for somebody like Donovan to be able to do that. Sam Merrill, even to be able to do that. I would hesitate a little bit in terms of giving Donovan the toughest assignment of the perimeter guys that the Cavs are playing against, because, man, he’s going to have so much responsibility, and that’s just going to wear him down mentally and physically. And I just don’t think the Cavs need to do that. The way that they’re made on the defensive end of the floor, the personnel that they have on the defensive end of the floor, Give it to Sam Merrill and see if he can handle it. Give it to DeAndre Hunter and see if he can handle it, that responsibility. Donovan may want it at times, Donovan may want the challenge at times, but the Cavs have the luxury to not do that given their other personnel. And the other thing that I would say is, I don’t want to belabor this point, but the numbers are the numbers, and there’s enough evidence that points to it. The ceiling for the Cavs as a defensive team you were talking about, what’s their identity going to be? Look, they had a 1:40 offensive rating in the first quarter against Detroit, and Kenny Atkinson after the game said the the offense was clunky, okay? I think that just shows you where the standards are of this offense. And when you set records for greatness on the offensive end of the floor, and you’re talked about as one of the best offenses in NBA history, offense is going to be a big part of what you do, and the expectations are going to be high and the standards going to be high for the offense as well. But the capability that they have on defense is just different without Darius Garland playing 36 minutes. The numbers say that if you look at the Cavs in the minutes with Darius Garland on the floor last year, they had a defensive rating of 1 13. With him off the floor, they had a defensive rating of 1, oh 7. So I think, yes, their offense is going to be a big part of their identity. It’s one of the best offenses in the NBA. The GM survey that just came out, a bunch of executives around the NBA, they were all asked who has the best offense in the league, who runs the best offense in the league and there was Kenny Atkinson’s offense. It’s player friendly, it’s movement based, there’s random cutting. It’s very, very difficult for an opponent to deal with. So I do think that. Nope, when you think of the Cavs and who they are, the first thing that you’re going to think about is offense, up tempo offense, three point heavy offense, cut heavy offense and all that different stuff. But the Cavs themselves, they want to get back to being an elite top tier defensive team. Top 10 is one thing, but they’re looking at top five. Top three, can we become top five? Can we become top three? How do we get there? And I think the ceiling of what they can be as a defensive team, I think it’s different without Darius Garland being a high minute player, without Darius Garland being available at the beginning of the season. So I think it doesn’t have to just be training camp fodder this year. It doesn’t just have to be an organizational talking point. I think defense absolutely can be a big part of their identity and I don’t see any reason why at the beginning of the year with the personnel that they have. Evan Mobley, the reigning defensive player of the year, Jared Allen, one of the best rim protecting centers in the NBA, and the size and the length that they can put on the court and the peskiness that they can put on the court, I don’t see any reason why they can’t be a top five offense and a top five defense.
Ethan Sands: And generally, Chris, that leads to a team that’s actually in championship contention. And that’s exactly where the Cavs want to be. The last point that you made about Donovan Mitchell and obviously wanting to be a defense and offense player, but offense first, obviously because of the responsibilities that he has. My takeaway from this preseason is, well, Kenny Atkinson continuously asked for someone to step up defensively to take on those caps, to take on the defensive responsibilities that are left to guard some of the better players on the offensive end. Right. Well, you look at the players that are willingly guarding the entire length of the court. Craig Porter Jr. Jalen Tyson. You mentioned Sam Merrill, right? The opportunity for them to get on the court and earn real minutes lies in their creatability on the offensive end and what they’re able to do with the ball in their hands and also screening and getting off the ball and all these other things. But mainly how pesky can you be on the defensive end? What impact can you make on that side of the floor to help create more opportunities Offensively, right? And Jaylon Tyson is probably at the top of my list when it comes to the quote unquote replacement for Isaac Okoro when it comes to a defensive stopper. Not necessarily doing it for the entire game, but getting put in for stints to take on that challenge, depending on the night, depending on who’s in front of him, because at 6 foot 6, a little bit burlier than Max Drus, a little bit bigger, a little bit stronger, a little bit more desired to go do those tasks, I think he’s a guy Jalen Tyson that can make an impact on that side of the floor, And Craig Porter Jr. Is another guy that wants it, but his size limits him in that capacity as well. But I think if he’s handsy enough, that’ll be a problem for opposing offenses as well.
Chris Fedor: You guys sort of wonder here, Ethan, about the role of Craig Porter Jr. And just how consistent it’s going to be and how much it will be there when the team gets closer to full strength. And that’s probably a conversation for a different day. But, but as the preseason went on, he looked like he looked more like Guy 10 in the rotation than certainly Guy 7. Now it’s going to help him at the beginning of the year because Lonzo’s only going to play about 20 minutes and it feels like maybe it’s going to be 10 minutes in the first half and 10 minutes in the second half. However, Kenny wants to do that. And then the leftover, the leftover backup point guard minutes are probably going to go the way of Craig or second night of a back to back. Lonzo’s not out there or Lonzo’s in foul trouble, Donovan’s in file trouble, whatever the case may be. I just wonder, you know, as this, this preseason was playing out to myself, I was just wondering, you know, how expansive is this role that Craig Porter Jr. Is going to have.
Ethan Sands: I think these are all questions that we’re going to get to figure out throughout the remainder of the season as of course, as we start the 82 game grind next Wednesday in New York. And obviously we didn’t even get into Tyrese Proctor and what his role is going to be. But we’ll save that for a different podcast because that kid, according to Kenny Atkinson and Donovan Mitchell, has an it factor that is still looking to be developed. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wines and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by Subscribing to Subtext I know we haven’t done a hey Chris episode in a couple of weeks. Well, tomorrow is going to be the day for a hey Chris episode, so send in your questions, but the only way you can do so and signing up for a 14 day free trial. Or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is is through subtext. Y’ all been safe. We out.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.