CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor break down the Cavs’ 119-111 season-opening loss to the New York Knicks. They discuss how the team’s familiar struggles, but early adversity could be beneficial for the team’s development.
Takeaways:
Familiar Issues Resurface in Opening Night Loss
The Cavaliers’ loss felt eerily similar to their playoff elimination by the Pacers last season, as the same critical issues reappeared. Despite shooting better from the field and hitting more 3-pointers, the Cavs were once again dominated in physicality and on the boards. The Knicks won the rebounding battle 48-32, even while missing key physical players like Mitchell Robinson and Josh Hart. This recurring struggle with rebounding and a failure to dictate the game’s physical tone suggests that the core weaknesses that doomed the team in the postseason have not yet been resolved. The loss was described as “revealing,” exposing the areas where the team still needs significant growth to overcome its previous shortcomings.
Jarrett Allen’s Performance Draws Heavy Criticism
A primary focus of the team’s rebounding problem was the performance of center Jarrett Allen, who was singled out for his lack of impact. Allen finished the game with just four rebounds in 28 minutes of play, a statistic deemed “not good enough” for an All-Star caliber starting center. The hosts emphasized that while rebounding is a team effort, the responsibility starts with the frontcourt of Allen and Evan Mobley. Allen’s performance was put into stark contrast when it was noted that a lesser-known Knicks player, Ariel Hukporti, secured more rebounds in 10 fewer minutes. The critique centered on Allen needing to be tougher, more physical, and more active, regardless of defensive assignments that might pull him from the basket.
An Unbalanced Offensive Dynamic Between Mitchell and Mobley
The game highlighted a significant challenge for the Cavs: finding a functional offensive balance between Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. The first half, described as “Evan Mobley centric,” was clunky and inefficient, resulting in a low offensive rating. In contrast, the offense found its rhythm in the third quarter when it became “Donovan Mitchell centric,” with Mitchell taking over and scoring 21 of his 31 points. The drastic shift from a forced, Mobley-focused offense to a supernova performance from Mitchell raises questions about how the two stars can coexist effectively. The discussion concluded that the team must find a better middle ground, where both players can be involved simultaneously without the offense becoming lopsided or losing its flow.
Significant Injuries and “Growing Pains” Provide Context
The Cavaliers’ performance must be viewed through the lens of their significant injuries. The team entered the game without key rotation players Darius Garland and Max Strus, and they lost forward De’Andre Hunter to a knee contusion right before the season, disrupting plans that were built around his integration. Coach Kenny Atkinson had explicitly warned before the game to expect “growing pains,” a clunky offense, and lineup experimentation due to the missing personnel and stylistic adjustments. These absences forced the team to use lineups that had never played together in training camp or preseason, indicating that the team on the floor was far from the finished product Cleveland hopes to become.
The Team’s Biggest Test Remains Responding to Physicality
The hosts concluded that the big-picture takeaway from the loss is not the single defeat but what it represents: the team’s ongoing struggle against tough, physical opponents. Teams that play an energetic, bullying style have consistently been a “thorn in this team’s side.” The ability to respond to this physical adversity is framed as the Cavs’ most crucial test for the entire season. Rather than viewing the loss as a disaster, it was positioned as a necessary dose of reality that the team needs to experience during the regular season. Learning to overcome this “crap” and finding a way to win these types of games is essential if they hope to finally break through their playoff ceiling.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today from New York City, the Mecca, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com kazbeat reporter and it has been a long night for Chris, not only to mention that the Cavs won’t be starting this season 150 to start the year. That dream ended on opening night, but we’ve had some technical difficulties when it comes to writing on our website all these different things. But I can assure you that Chris has still been working his tail off and we’re going to get into a lot of different topics on today’s podcast surrounding today’s so let’s get into it. The season opener Obviously we know The Cavs fell 119, 111 to the new York Knicks, but what makes this loss interesting is how familiar it felt. The same issues that doomed the Cavs in the Eastern Conference semifinals against Indiana showed up again. Rebounding, physicality, late game execution. And the Cavs opened the season in New York and somehow it felt the same as what it did in May of 2025. Cleveland shot better from the field, hit more threes, and still they lost by eight points. Knicks didn’t have Mitchell Robinson or Josh Hart tonight, Chris, and still they won the rebound battle 48 to 32. And let me make this very, very clear. OG Anunoby and Karl Anthony Towns combined for 2025 rebounds. And again, the Cavs had just 32 on the night. Chris, you were at MSG as I mentioned. What felt most familiar about this one, Was it the rebounding, the fourth quarter offense, or just that sense that New York dictates the game as it is?
Chris Fedor: The thing that stood out to me, Ethan, is that the Cavs have a little bit more figuring out to do than maybe some people anticipated. Now, part of that has to do with the fact that DeAndre Hunter didn’t play. And, and we know we’ve been talking on this podcast about the bigger role that DeAndre was going to have. A big part of training camp was integrating him, getting him comfortable, making him more involved in the offense, varying his usage, his touches, shot attempts, all that kind of stuff. And then he suffers a contusion on the inside of his knee in the final preseason game. And even though DeAndre said immediately after that game that he was going to be ready for opening night, he wasn’t able to play against the Knicks. So if you look at what the Cavs are missing and the components to the offense that they’re missing. We’re talking about three of their six or seven most important players. And we all know what Max brings to the table in terms of his movement, in terms of his cutting, in terms of his gravity in the spacing and stuff like that. It’s just, I think Kenny Atkinson was trying to tell everybody over the last couple of days that, hey, it’s going to be different. Be prepared for growing pains, be prepared for this to not look as good as what it did at the beginning of last season. Be prepared maybe for our defense to be ahead of our offense because of all of the stylistic tweaks and all of the personnel changes that we’ve been forced to make because of these injuries that we’re dealing with and because of these lineup changes and rotation changes and combinations and all that kind of stuff. So even before the game, Kenny, like, not even being asked a question specifically about it, he went out of his way to say, hey, like, this is different. This is going to be different. And we’re going to use, like, different players, new rotation players, some guys that haven’t played together during training camp or during the preseason, because we’re going to be forced into those kinds of decisions. So I think the thing that stands out to me is even though, you know, New York has a new system, they’ve got a new head coach in Mike Brown who took over from Tom Thibodeau, it just feels like the Cavs in this current state, they’re obviously not the team that they’re going to be by the end of the season, but they have more work to do, and it’s going to be harder for them to bank wins here in the early going because of all these growing pains that they’re going to experience.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris, and I mean, you touched on it there, right? DeAndre Hunter wasn’t available. Obviously, we understand Darius Garlett and Max Juice weren’t going to be available come game one of this 82 game grind. But we also do, and we kind of tried to tell people on this podcast, like, this is going to be a different kind of view of what the Cavs are going to look like. And it’s difficult to have these conversations about such a historically great offense with potentially better players suited for what Kenny Atkinson wants to do, and still having some clunkiness, some stagnation, some isolation, heavy offense when it comes to tonight’s game. But I want to get back to the rebounding aspect just a little bit because it is the Knicks and obviously everybody is worried about the Physicality of this Cavs team as they still have not fully shen the label of soft. And this is the season that I thought they could do it, but they didn’t do me any favors in this opener of the season. So obviously we know this wasn’t a terrible loss, but it was a revealing one. You could see where this team still needs to grow. But when we talk about the rebounding aspect, when we talk about when games get physical and the Cavs don’t necessarily always respond and it not being a skill issue but like a mindset because Jared Allen wasn’t very good tonight, he ended the game with just four rebounds. Evan Mobley led the game with eight rebounds for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Larry Anne Jr. Had six, Lonzo Ball had four. And that was the most out of anybody on the Cavs roster when it came to the entirety of the 48 minutes in tonight’s contest. But Chris, I wanted to ask you, is it an establishment on the front court that needs to be addressed or is it more about guards not helping on the glass? Because to me it’s both. The guards have to dig, but it starts with the Blakes because you can’t expect to win games like this when the other team just wants the ball more. Especially knowing that they weren’t going to have Mitchell Robinson and Josh Hart to clean up the messes that they were used to having on the boards.
Chris Fedor: Jared Allen needs to be better. We can start there. He’s a starting center in today’s NBA. He’s considered one of the best centers in the Eastern Conference. He’s been an All Star in the past. The Cavs have committed to him financially. He’s got to be better when it comes to rebounding. And we could sit here and we say the tough job that he has, being pulled away from the rim because of some of these floor spacers that the Knicks have in their front court. And we can sit here and say that sometimes if Jared is going to switch, then he’s going to have to recover and be out of position. And we can sit here and say that maybe Jarrett was doing some boxing out, allowing some of these other guys to clean up the boards, but four rebounds in 28 minutes, that’s just not good enough. It has to be better. He’s got to be tougher. He’s got to be more physical. He’s got to be more active when it comes to getting rebounds. Do you know who Ariel Hakporti is?
Ethan Sands: Not someone who got a lot of minutes last year.
Chris Fedor: I mean, rightfully so not a lot of people know who he is. He played 18 minutes in tonight’s game. 18. Just 18. Jarrett played 28. And Hock Porti got one more rebound than Jarrett in 10 fewer minutes. It’s just not good enough. I mean, when you have a rebounding conversation, when you have a defense conversation. Yes, the. There’s so many different components that go into it. Eaton. I think everybody is smart enough from a basketball sense to understand that. And you can’t just put the blame on one guy and say he’s the problem. But the starting point for the Cavs defense is always going to be Jarrett and Evan. Their ceiling on the defensive end of the floor is tied to those two guys. Elite rim protectors, elite paint protectors, erasers of mistakes, guys who you know are potential all defensive team players every single year. So if we’re having the same conversation about rebounding, I’m not starting with Donovan Mitchell.
Ethan Sands: Right.
Chris Fedor: That conversation’s not starting with Larry Nance Jr. In the low minutes that he’s going to play. The conversation’s not starting with, oh, my gosh, Sam Merrill’s not doing his job good enough on the glass. No, the conversation is going to start.
Ethan Sands: With Jared and Evan.
Chris Fedor: Those are the two guys that are playing closest to the rim. Those are the two guys that carry the most responsibility when it comes to finishing defensive possessions with the board. And Jared Allen cannot have four rebounds in 28 minutes. I don’t care about the circumstances. I don’t. You’re seven feet tall. You play center. Get more than four rebounds. He’s got to get more than four rebounds, especially against a team like the Knicks. OG Anunoby is not the biggest dude. He’s not the most physical dude like Carl. Anthony Towns is grabby and foul prone. He pulled down 11. How does OG get 4 14. So Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, both of those guys. If the Cavs are going to be a great rebounding team, it has to start with those two guys. They have to take the physical challenge on the boards, and it did not feel like tonight they did. Especially Jared.
Ethan Sands: Chris, you remember after last season, postseason, I was extremely critical of what Jared Allen was not able to do in the final couple of games of that series. We understood how great he was at the beginning portion of that series, but it cannot be that. Right? We keep saying this. For Evan Mobley, it can’t be a sometimes thing. It has to be an all the times thing. And I know the conversation keeps coming back about being involved offensively, but you can’t have your defensive anchor and his motor, which is what he’s known for, on that end of the floor, tied to his offensive involvement. Especially on a night when you’re already losing the rebounding battle. That’s been the story for multiple seasons. Now, if the Cavs don’t find a guard who can consistently get him easy touches, which is going to be difficult because Darius Garland’s not playing play for who knows how long, that’s a different conversation we might have later on this show. But also understanding that he’s not in the same rotation currently as Lonzo Ball, he’s coming out of the game when Lonzo Ball is going in the game, which means when Jared Allen re enters the game, the de facto point guard is likely going to be Donovan Mitchell. You know what Donovan Mitchell’s role is when he gets back over the floor, get buckets. So if you have him tied to his offensive production and defensive consistency, being tied to him getting easy touches, this storyline is not going away. He’s too dependent on others to be effective, and that’s risky to a supposed core piece of this roster because when he’s engaged, he’s great. Right? We understand that. But when he doesn’t touch the ball for a few trips down the floor and his energy fades, and that cannot happen for a player that is known for what he brings defensively and the communication factor and the maturity that he needs to have on that end of the floor, the leadership that he is supposed to have on the end of the floor, that simply sometimes goes away because he simply does not feel as involved as he might need to on the offensive end of the floor. Sorry, Jared Allen, your role isn’t to get 20 points a night. You know that. Everybody in the arena knows that. Your role grab 10 boards a night and be a defensive menace and help defend and protect the paint. You didn’t do your job tonight, big fella.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, when you talk about the Cavs and you don’t want to make definitive declarations right now, it’s game one of 82, and there’s a lot of things that the Gavs are still figuring out, and there are too many missing components, too many important missing components to really make definitive declarations. But we have seen it throughout the Core 4 era. There are certain kinds of teams, there are certain styles that are just going to be problematic for this group of personnel. And I. I think one of the things that has been a trend is that tough, physical, energetic, active teams give the Cavs problems And I think the root of those problems are Jared and Evan and how they handle that level of physicality, how they handle bigger bodied guys, how they handle, you know, the kind of activity that some of these other teams are going to be able to throw at them in the front court. And again, you don’t want to make definitive declarations, but at some point it has to be problematic to the people that are making these decisions that a specific style has been a consistent thorn in this team side. And if you flash forward, because we’re big picture too, just like we talk about the short term, we talk about the long term as well as you flash forward, Orlando is going to be tough, physical, feisty, long bullies, okay? Milwaukee can be that. Don’t know what’s going to happen with Milwaukee. Don’t know if the roster is good enough. But with Miles Turner, with Giannis in the front court, and then you keep going down the list, right? The Knicks, Knicks didn’t have Josh Hart, they didn’t have Mitchell Robinson. What, what happens if both of those guys play? What’s the rebounding disparity if both of those guys play? So I, I think it’s hard for me to say that this physicality problem is going to be correctable, especially when the personnel for the Cavs, like what did they do to address that weakness? Jared’s still going to be a high minute player. Evan’s still going to be a high minute player. They’re going to swallow up a majority of the minutes at those two spots. If those two guys are going to. Jarrett in particular is going to continue to struggle with that level of physicality, that level of toughness, those quality rebounders, then why would I think that the Cavs are going to be able to handle those kinds of teams?
Ethan Sands: The basic point of all of this is if you’re getting bullied by Carl Anthony Towns, you’re going to have problems with Mitchell Robinson. But we talked about Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley and I want to get into them because obviously those were the two top performers from tonight’s game when it came to the Cleveland Cavaliers, but didn’t necessarily end the way they might have wanted to or start the way that they wanted to either. Donovan Mitchell ended the game with 31 points. 21 of those came in the third quarter when he absolutely caught fire. In your terms, Chris, your favorite word to use for him, supernova. But in the fourth quarter you could tell he was laboring after getting hit and whether it was a hamstring, a quad, whatever it was, he Just wasn’t right. Right. And when that happens, he tends to press. And literally, either he was trying to go down the court and force a foul to get a timeout or whatever it was to get off the court. He was trying his hardest after that to get off the court or prove that he shouldn’t have been on there because he had two points in the fourth quarter and some forced possessions. It’s a theme that we’ve seen before. Again, replicating something that happened last postseason. We talked about it then. 30 shots in a night, not necessarily exactly what you want from Donovan Mitchell, but when things tighten up, I think the Cavs stop moving the ball and Donovan tries to play hero. It’s not necessarily selfishness. It’s like just instinct for him. Right. When your team needs you, you. You take over.
Chris Fedor: I don’t think we can overlook that. It’s. It’s what the Cavs needed tonight. It’s what got them out of the mud. It’s what got them to look like themselves again. The first half is going on, and there are a couple of reporters sitting next to me, and there are a couple of times that I just said, who are these guys? What team are we watching here? Because it did not look like the last year’s team. And part of that is Darius is out. Another part of that is max is out. DeAndre’s out. So the missing pieces played part of that. But the stylistic changes that the Cavs are trying to implement in terms of making Evan Mobley more of a focal point and kind of like testing his limits to see what he can do, what he can’t do, it’s a purposeful thing, because I think the Cavs believe that it’s going to be important for them, and it’s going to be important for Evan and his evolution. But the truth is, the first quarter was Evan Mobley centric, and it was awful. It did not look good at all. It didn’t the first half. A majority of the first half was Evan Mobley centric, and the Cavs had an offensive rating of, like, 95 in the first half. It just wasn’t good. It’s not what they’re used to. It’s not what their personnel is best at. And I totally understand why the Cavs are doing it, and I totally understand that Evan and exploring different ways that you can use him within the offense is going to be important, especially when you get into playoff time next year, and you’ve got to figure these things out as you go. But. But Evan is still Evan’s still trying to get comfortable with this new level of usage. Evan’s still trying to get comfortable with these, with this kind of shot profile. And it just, in the words of Kenny Atkinson, it looked clunky. And then in the third quarter, the ball was in the hands more of Donovan Mitchell. There was more pick and roll. It was him initiating as opposed to Evan. He took more than half their shots in the third quarter. He made more than half their shots in the third quarter and Evan got one. One. And that was their best quarter on offense. Now, Donovan going supernova. Can you bank on that every single night? No, you don’t want to have to bank on that every single night. But if it helped you get out of the mud and it made you more competitive against the Knicks, sometimes you have to resort to that. So if, if Evan Mobley is going to be more of a focal point and he’s going to be more involved and his attack is going to be varied the way that it was in the first quarter, if, if that’s going to be the plan that, that he’s got to prove, one, that he’s ready for that and two, that the offense can be successful and still be as dynamic with him in that particular role. And to me, it didn’t feel like the offense was. It felt like an out of rhythm offense because they were so. It was like forcing it to Evan Mobley and it didn’t feel like he was ready for that, and it didn’t feel like that was the best thing for the personnel that the Cavs had on the floor there. And again, I’m going to give grace because I understand what else was missing and the spacing was different and the lineups were different and the combinations were different and all that kind of stuff. But it’s going to be something that we’re going to talk about throughout the course of the season. It’s. It’s going to be something that the Cavs are going to continue exploring throughout the season. But I think, think it’s fair to wonder, is that going to be the best thing for the Caps or is Donovan Mitchell as the alpha of the offense, still going to be the best path for consistent success? And here’s the other question. If the first quarter was dominated by Evan the way that it was and Donovan had to take a back seat because of that, and then in the third quarter the roles switched around, like, isn’t there a way to find a better balance? I don’t think it has to be. Okay. Evan’s going to take Seven shots in the first six minutes of the first quarter, and that means Donovan gets none or Donovan goes supernova in the third quarter, and that means Evan only gets one. There has to be a way for them to be involved simultaneously, and it’s clear that the Cavs are still trying to figure out that dynamic. It took a while for the Cavs to figure that out with Darius and Donovan, and I think it’s going to take some time for them to figure it out with Evan and Donovan as well.
Ethan Sands: At the very beginning of it, Right. We talk about the difficulty it is for the Cavs and Kenny Atkinson and Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell to have been planning all summer, preparing Herring, knowing that Darius Garland and Max Drus were not going to be there, and you were going to have a plan set in place. You understood it wasn’t going to be pretty. It wasn’t going to be perfect. It wasn’t going to be exactly what it was last year. But with DeAndre there, you could figure some things out. And then a week before the regular season kicks off, DeAndre Hunter goes down, and you don’t know if. If he’s going to be able to go or not. Right. So that’s something that had to change at the drop of a hat, and they had to adjust with that. And that comes with added growing pains of what they had to do.
Chris Fedor: Evan Mobley centric and Donovan centric. Ethan. I think the difference was that even if it was Donovan centric, it felt like it came within the flow of the offense and it came in a specific rhythm. When it was Evan, it felt like it was forced. And I think they just have to get to a point where when the offense flows through Evan, it still flows, and it doesn’t feel forced. And it feels like those buckets, those attempts, all of that come in rhythm. And I didn’t feel like that tonight.
Ethan Sands: The biggest part of what the takeaway could be from tonight is, is Donovan Mitchell going to be healthy for game two and Brooklyn. Right. And we know that he went down and wasn’t playing to his standards. So I guess, Chris, my next question would be for you is, do you know more about what Donovan was dealing with and what his situation is going into the end of this week?
Chris Fedor: Well, Donovan was having a conversation with his personal trainer, Murphy Grant, and Donovan seemed annoyed and frustrated, and he seemed to say that something grabbed, and it’s obviously something that you have to monitor. Donovan’s always going to downplay everything. He’s always going to say, I’m good, I’M fine. But there was an extended conversation before Donovan did his media session in the locker room with his personal trainer, trying to figure out, okay, what happened here? What are the steps that we have to take to make sure that I’m good to go for Friday? I don’t think it’s anything serious. I don’t think it’s anything significant. It didn’t feel like that. It’s just more of a frustration thing of, are you kidding me? This is happening again. This is happening on opening night for us. I will also say that I had a conversation with somebody in the locker room about DeAndre and there is some doubt as to whether he’s going to play Friday night against Brooklyn. Now, the Cavs should not need DeAndre Hunter to beat the Brooklyn Nets. The Nets are going to be terrible again. But this was an injury that was supposed to be extremely minor. This was an injury that DeAndre said was not a big deal. So I think the point is, even if these guys downplay it, it doesn’t mean necessarily that they’re going to play the next game. So. So I think when it comes to Donovan, it’s a wait and see approach. The Cavs are scheduled to practice on Thursday at a local college here in Manhattan, so we’ll see if he’s able to participate, how much he’s able to participate, what he can do, what he can’t do. But it felt like, to me, more annoyance and frustration than actual pain, at least after the game.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, and I appreciate you giving us that update from from being in Madison Square Garden, Chris, but I do want to get back to something that you said about the Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell dynamic before we move on to our last topic of the night. You mentioned balance, and I think that’s the best word that is needed for this Cavs team when it comes to Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell, because we know the separation of them when it comes to the rotations is in part to allow one or the other to go and do what they feel is necessary or needed in any given moment to take over the game or to help their team be in the best possible position for when the other comes back on the floor. And as we know, Evan Mobley had 22 points tonight. Sixteen of those came in the first half. He took five field goals and two free throws in the entirety of the second half. Donovan Mitchell, on the other hand, had 18 field goal attempts, eight coming from beyond the arc, and 23 points in the second half. So it’s basically a polar opposite And I think once Donovan gets going like he did in the third quarter, sometimes his mind shifts to, well, I can get it done. I have what it takes. I am an all NBA first team player. I chose be in the MVP conversation. I have been in the MVP conversation. I can do it. But it is game one of the NBA season for the Cleveland Cavaliers. And what we have been preaching for the entirety of the regular season that we need to see is Evan Mobley do it more. And I think that Evan Mobley not getting enough touches or Donovan Mitchell trying to do too much in certain scenarios in the fourth quarter could have been negative in this sense because these are the moments that he’s supposed to be the focal point when it comes to the offense in the fourth quarter and seeing what he can do in Evan Mobley against teams like the Knicks playoff contending teams, Eastern Conference contending teams. He’s not supposed to be an afterthought. You can’t grow him into the franchise player if he’s not part of the crunch time formula. So I do think there is a balance necessary. There is so many different things that the Cavs are going to have to work on at the beginning of the season. Getting Donovan and Evan to mesh and do what it needs to do to find the balance, find the happy medium is one of the biggest ones.
Chris Fedor: I asked Donovan after the game, I said, you know, this is different than you and Darius. Obviously, this is a different kind of player. This is a different kind of skill set. This is also different than you and Rudy from the past. Right? So I asked Donovan, I said, you know, do you believe that your skill sets, you and Evan complement each other up like, well enough to be the team that you want to be? And he said, yeah, I don’t have any doubts about that. He. He doesn’t seem concerned about that. I think it’s just something, Ethan, that is new for Donovan in a way and it’s new for Evan in a way. And I think it’s hard when you have this kind of conversation because a guy stepping forward and getting more typically means the other guy taking a step back and taking less. And I think it’s fair to wonder, as I said, is it better for the Cavs for Donovan to do less? Do we really believe that when he’s the better, more complete, more all around offensive player? I think it’s something that Kenny is really working through mentally, and I think it’s something that Donovan and Evan are working through mentally. And I think, as you said, the primary takeaway from Tonight is that there just has to be more balance. It just doesn’t have to be as drastic as it was in the first quarter and the third quarter, you know, it doesn’t have to be as drastic as, okay, if Evan Mobley is going to get eight shot attempts in the first quarter and like seven of those coming in the first six minutes, does that mean Donovan only has to get two? Like, does it have to be that lopsided? And then if you talk about the third quarter, yeah, Donovan was great, the Cavs offense was flowing, but does it have to be 14 shot attempts to one find that balance? What’s the right compromise? And I think Donovan’s still figuring it out because, yes, I mean, him taking a step back and him getting less usage, less touches, less involvement, that hasn’t been how his career has gone for the first eight years. And if you’re down of it and you’re saying, well, wait a minute, like, I’ve been really, really successful over the first eight years. I’ve led my team to the playoffs every single season that I’ve been in the NBA. I’ve had a prolific offense almost every single season that I’ve been in the NBA. And that’s with me being a high usage ball dominant player, is taking a step back really the right move? Is that really the better thing? And I think it’s, it’s fair to look at Donovan and say, you know, yeah, it might be better for the team long term, but he’s, he’s got to believe that enough. Does that make sense? And, and I’m not saying that he doesn’t, and I’m not saying that he, he, he doesn’t see the value of, of Evan Mobley as a focal point or, or he’s pushing back on this idea. It’s not it at all. It’s just when, when things are different, just because you want them to work out, it doesn’t mean that you can just snap your fingers and have them work out. It takes time, it takes reps. And, and the version of Evan Mobley that the Cavs are trying to pull out is not the same one from last year. It’s different than last year. And the version of Donovan Mitchell that, that’s going to have to be out there with Evan Mobley, if Evan Mobley is going to be in that expanded role, that’s different too. And you can want, you can want the right things, you can want all of these things to just work out. But, but it doesn’t mean that it’s going to it certainly doesn’t mean that it’s going to on October 22nd. So it’s something that I think we have to continue to monitor. I think it’s a fascinating dynamic. I really do, because I think you’re asking two guys to kind of go outside themselves in a way. And if there’s a coach that can make it happen, it’s Kenny. And I think if there are two players that can make it happen, it’s Donovan and Evan, because they’re selfless, because they’re about the right things and because they’re aligned with what the goals are for this team. But, but I, I just think they’re going to continue to be on court complications because it’s different.
Ethan Sands: Chris, I want to get into probably the most surprising thing that happened is that Tyrus Proctor, the number 49 overall pick in the 2025 NBA Draft, got significant minutes in his rookie debut at Madison Square Garden. And honestly, he got more minutes over Craig Porter Jr. Which wasn’t necessarily expected. But in this case it made sense. His iq, his size, his weight, patience in the pick and roll, that all translated, especially against a long, physical New York Knicks team. He didn’t really look overwhelmed in his debut. He looked like a player Kenny Atkinson can actually trust, a player who Donovan Mitchell has vouched for. Kenny Atkinson really does value the ball movement, the spacing and the decision making. And to me, Tyrese Proctor checked all three boxes. So my question to you, Chris, is were you surprised he got those minutes this early, or did he just outplay the expectations that he might have had in training camp, preseason, and then the schematic fit for this matchup?
Chris Fedor: Well, I think the other thing is Craig Porter Jr. Wasn’t very effective in his seven minutes. So the minutes that are theoretically available to Tyrese Proctor, they’ve got to come from somewhere, right? If, if he’s going to get into the rotation, if Kenny’s going to extend it by one extra guy, then where are those minutes going to come from? They’re not coming from Donovan Mitchell. They’re not coming from Lonzo. I think Kenny probably played Lonzo a little bit more than than he wanted to, especially on opening night. But Lonzo was really good in terms of just like his maturity, his composure, the way that he was running the offense. Ignore the one of seven from the field and one of seven from three point range. I think his three pointers are going to come. I don’t think shooting is going to be a problem for him. I think he’s probably going to have streakiness to his three point shooting, but can he do the other? Can he impact the game in a positive way? Turnovers have to be a little bit lower than what they were. He had four in, in 23 minutes. But you got the sense from Kenny that, that he believed in Lonzo, he trusted Lonzo, he liked the things that, that Lonzo was giving him. So if it’s not the second night of a back to back, if it’s not a cluster of the schedule where you have to fight, find some load management or try and limit the minutes within the game or something like that, if, if those aren’t the circumstances that we’re talking about, then the minutes have to come from somebody. If, if Tyrese is going to get into the rotation and if he’s going to play. And the minutes tonight came from Craig Porter Jr. Because the Craig Porter Jr. Minutes in the first half just weren’t good. He wasn’t impactful, he wasn’t effective. The team was better without Craig. And that doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen every single night. It doesn’t mean that, you know, Friday night in Brooklyn that Kenny’s just going to completely go away from Craig. I don’t think he’s going to have that kind of leash, but he’s going to let these things play out. When you’re talking about the back end of the rotation things, it’s going to be a meritocracy. Who looks better in the first half, who looks better in their minutes? What does the game call for in that kind of moment? And I do think you made a good point about Tyrese and his skill set. Yeah, there’s more length, probably a little bit more size. And as Kenny said in his post game comments, he said that he wanted the pick and roll capability of Tyrese Proctor because the way that the Knicks were guarding the Cavs and because of the spacing being different and stuff like that. So, you know, if Tyrese is going to continue to provide that kind of dimension, where he’s going to be comfortable in the pick and roll, where he’s going to make good decisions in the pick and roll, where Kenny Atkinson is looking out there and saying, hey, this guy looks like he belongs, then I think Kenny’s going to consider going to him. Did I think he was going to go to him as early as he did? No. But again, the minutes were available tonight because three of the top six or seven guys were out and one of them was a surprise in DeAndre Hunter. So that kind of Shook some things up that changed some lineups. You know, the guys in the locker room, Ethan, were talking about lineups that were never used in training camp, never used in the preseason, being played in, quote, unquote, positions that they hadn’t been playing played in. So a lot of things were different for the Cavs, but. But the truth is, like, when you’re talking about those, I don’t want to say unestablished roles, because that’s not the right way to put it, but, like, it feels like the Craig Porter Jr. Tyrese Proctor, that thing is. Is more fluid. You know what I mean? Like, Dean Wade is in the rotation. He’s going to get nightly minutes. He has a specific role. He’s going to come in at a certain time. Lonzo Ball, same thing. Right. But beyond that, in. Larry Nance Jr. Has a role, a specific role. He’s going to get 15 to 20 minutes a night or something like that. The position that he plays is probably going to be dictated by the matchup and the other personnel from the other team and stuff like that. But beyond that, the Tyrese Proctor, Craig Porter Jr. Thing, I think that’s more fluid than some of these other guys that we’re talking about. So it’s going to be up to Craig to provide more than what he did in the first half, because, again, I don’t think he’s just going to get bounced from the rotation entirely, but. But if his first run is not as effective as Kenny wants it to be, he has another option, though, and it is somebody like Tyrese. Just like if Tyrese’s first run, if Kenny goes to Tyrese and it’s just not a good matchup for him or it’s not a good situation for him, then Kenny feels like he can go to Craig.
Ethan Sands: All right, Chris, time to get into the big picture of this, because we all understand this was the season opener. This was the first game of the NBA season for the Cleveland Cavaliers. This loss isn’t a disaster. Sure would. The CAV wanted to go 150 to start the season again, of course. But this is just one game of 82.
Chris Fedor: Actually, I don’t think they would’ve wanted to.
Ethan Sands: Well, because of the stresses of what it caused them last year, you’re probably right.
Chris Fedor: No, because I think they want to deal with crap this year, and I think they want to deal with crap. I do. I think they want things a little bit tougher than what it felt like and what came to them last year, because I think they want to experience real crap throughout the course of the regular season. So that they have to deal with that adversity, they have to deal with that chaos, they have to deal with that drama, and they have to get through it all. They have to find a way to get through it all together. So I think 15 and oh probably would have been the worst thing for this team if they would have coasted through the beginning of the season.
Ethan Sands: Well, Chris, they’re off to a good start, and that’s what they want. Because if you’re surfing through social media and you’re a Cavs believer, you saw a lot of stuff on the Interweb this evening. But nights like this, as we know, they’re about learning and how they can become the version consistently that they want to be or that they said that they are and can be. But the biggest thing for this Cal State, and it has been the same biggest thing dating back to last season, the year before, the year before, the year before, is how they respond to adversity. How do they respond to the crap that they have to.
Chris Fedor: With.
Ethan Sands: Deal, deal with? What’s one adjustment or mindset you want to see on Friday night, even though it’s against the Brooklyn Nets that tells you they took something from this season opener loss?
Chris Fedor: I think the level of intensity from the very beginning of the game, the level of aggressiveness that they want to play. It’s interesting because, you know, throughout the course of training camp in the preseason, Kenny and the players were all talking about, hey, like, we’re gonna play this more aggressive style of defense. We’re gonna pick up full court, we’re gonna get in the passing lanes. Deflections create chaos for the opponent. And it felt like the Knicks were doing that to them, not the Cavs doing that to the Knicks. So I. I think obviously it’s a different opponent. It requires a different kind of thing. But no matter who you’re playing against, you know, if you’re going to say that we want to be this certain style, and if you’re going to say we have the ceiling to be a top three or top one defense in the NBA, you have to play with a level of intensity that. That matches that. Right. You have to play with a level of aggressiveness that’s going to allow you to be that. So I think it comes down to that from the very beginning. Can you play with a different level of intensity from the very beginning, the kind of aggressiveness and intensity that you’ve been preaching for the last, what, six weeks at this point?
Ethan Sands: Yeah. Kristen and I heard that pregame. Kenny Hackinson was Stern and how he was talking about the expectations of the Cavs and what has been said about what they are capable of. The word championship has come out of a lot of mouths from this Cavs organization when it comes to the espn, the NBA, the Antscape, all of the different programs that they’ve had their faces on and rightfully so after a 64 win season and all that they accomplished last year. But the word championship has been thrown around and Tenny Atkinson said, well, guys, we have to get past Eastern Conference semifinals first. And I know a lot of people, again, talking about the people around the interwebs that were very critical of what happened in tonight’s game are thinking the same thing. So for those listening in and thinking we’re automatically thinking championship, well, Kenny Atkinson’s not the 82 game season still has to get done with. They still have to do what they know they have to do to get where they want to be. And then playoffs, first round, Eastern Conference semifinals. Punch through that wall for the first time in Donovan Mitchell’s career and then see what happens. But in short, the Cavs have talked about what they’re capable of a lot. This off season, this summer, this training camp. But sooner rather than later, you gotta start playing like the team that you say that you are. So heading into Game 2 of the NBA season, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the One and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs and Sliders and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your weekly hey Chris questions where you can ask Chris about his favorite food spots, about the travel that he’s going to embark on this season, or any Cavs questions as well, of course. But to do so, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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