CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of Wine and Gold Talk, host Ethan Sands dives into De’Andre Hunter’s growth as a creator, particularly with the backcourt shorthanded.
Takeaways:
1. Injuries Forced a “Find a Way” Mentality
The Cavaliers entered the contest significantly hampered, playing without four projected starters: Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Jarrett Allen, and Max Strus, in addition to key shooter Sam Merrill. Head coach Kenny Atkinson framed the game as a “find a way kind of night,” creating an opportunity to evaluate players who would not normally receive significant minutes. Despite the 112-101 loss, the shorthanded roster showed considerable fight, at one point building a 10-point lead in the third quarter and cutting the deficit to four entering the final period. The performance was seen not as an excuse for a loss, but as a test of the team’s depth and a chance for role players to step into larger, more demanding roles.
2. Evan Mobley Showcased Aggressive Growth
A major positive from the loss was the performance of Evan Mobley, who finished with a season-high 29 points. Atkinson specifically praised Mobley’s second-half mindset, where he was intent on attacking the paint rather than settling for outside shots. Atkinson called it “the Evan we know and love” and highlighted it as a crucial development, especially given the team ranked 29th in the league in drives. For his part, Mobley acknowledged he is finding his groove in reading defenses and understanding when to attack downhill versus when to kick out to teammates. The game served as a glimpse of Mobley learning on the fly to balance aggression and playmaking, a vital step in his development as a focal point of the offense.
3. Players Stepped Up in Expanded Roles
With the stars sidelined, other players were forced to take on primary scoring and creation duties. Jaylon Tyson was a standout, playing like a “madman” and providing a huge spark in the first half with 14 points, 4 three-pointers, and a career-high 3 blocks. His defensive energy was described as contagious for the team. De’Andre Hunter also kept the offense afloat in the second quarter, scoring 10 of the team’s 21 points in the period. Atkinson stated his desire for Hunter to become a consistent second or third scorer, praising his aggressive 18-shot performance and his elite skill as an off-the-dribble shooter. Both players demonstrated an ability to handle roles far greater than what is normally asked of them.
4. Glaring Team-Wide Weaknesses Were Exposed
Despite the effort, the game highlighted several recurring weaknesses for the Cavaliers that went beyond the injury report. The bench was a significant issue, as the Raptors’ reserves outscored the Cavs’ 48 to 15. By halftime, only four Cavaliers players had scored at all. Rebounding and interior defense also remained a problem; the team was out-rebounded 48-42 and surrendered 18 second-chance points, with players like Larry Nance Jr. struggling (2 rebounds). Furthermore, poor free-throw shooting continues to plague the team. They shot just 65% from the line in the game and are shooting only 73.5% through six games, having missed 45 free throws on the season.
5. A Glimpse of the True “Cavs’ Identity”
The third quarter provided a clear illustration of how the coaching staff wants the team to play. Sparked by Lonzo Ball pushing the pace and Evan Mobley attacking the paint, the Cavs went on a run and played a fluid, fast-paced style that Atkinson called a “flash of the Cavs’ identity.” This successful stretch was built on getting into the paint to create advantages and easy kick-out opportunities. This contrasted sharply with the team’s overall offensive approach, where they took 46 of their 90 shots from three-point range despite not having the same high-percentage shooters as last season. The game showcased the tension between settling for perimeter shots and the more effective, identity-driven offense that begins with attacking the rim.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And yes, it’s another solo edition as Chris is out being a family man on this fine Halloween. But I want to get into this night’s contest, a Halloween night contest where we saw a Cavs team that was significantly hampered when it comes to who was on the injury report. No Donovan Mitchell, no Jared Allen, no Darius Garland, no Max Strutz, no Sam Merrill when it comes to tonight’s game against the Toronto Raptors on Friday night. And it was an NBA cup game, so we knew it meant even more to this Cavs team in group play as they have spoken about about wanting to get to Vegas in that second round which they have yet to reach since the NBA cup. The in season tournament became a thing. But that did not happen tonight as the Toronto Raptors came away with a 112101 win. And of course this Cavs team was down multiple players as I mentioned earlier. And we’re going to hear from the players that were available. DeAndre Hunter, Evan Mobley and also Cavs head coach Kenny Atkinson talked after the game about tonight’s contest. But I want to get into the first quarter and this is where the Cavs knew that they had to come out on the defensive end of the floor. They were going to be without a majority of their shot creators, Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland being the main ones, but also Sam Merrill, someone who has been hot through the first few games of the season. And Max Drew is again a shooter, a cutter, someone who is intricate to to this offense and what the Cavs have done over the last few years. None of those players were available, so the Cavs had to make do with what they had. And Kenny Atkinson said before the game that it was a find a way kind of night, which means giving more opportunities to players who would not readily have been giving them if this Cavs team was fully healthy. And we got to see that from the get go. Jaylon Tyson being in the starting lineup as he has been a couple of times to start the season, whether it was because DeAndre Hunter was out or if Sam Merrow has been out the last couple of games. But Jaylon Tyson has been playing like a madman and on yesterday’s podcast with Chris we talked a little bit about the villain necessity for this team and needing someone to play with that edge, that hunger and willing to talk smack if necessary. And I talked to Jaylon Tyson pregame about his thoughts about potentially taking on that role.
Jaylon Tyson: I’m not necessarily a trash talker, but I don’t back down from nobody. We can go there. You know, I’m with it, but I’m not really a trash talking type of player. There’s definitely art to it. Like you get it under somebody’s skin and now they’re sitting there thinking about you and I think about the tasks at hand. I think it’s different art to it.
Ethan Sands: When we talk about like maybe meeting, a villain role, do you feel like you would be able to take on that role?
Jaylon Tyson: Absolutely. Like I said, whatever I got to do since day one, I got here. Whatever I got to do to help this team win, I’m willing to do it.
Ethan Sands: And Jaylon Tyson came up firing in the first quarter not only on the offensive end with where he had eight points and two threes, but also when he was on the defensive end and creating havoc. Two blocks in that first quarter alone. And for the entire first half he was a guy that was doing it all for this Cavs team. He had 14 points on 4 of 6 from deep five made field goals in total and three blocks, a career high just by halftime. And we know that that energy for players can be contagious. Evan Mobley, Deandre Hunter, Kenny Atkinson from the bench was feeling it. And that defensive identity kind of ramped up even more with the success that Jaylon Tyson was having. And that was needed for this team because we understand that for this offense to be successful, especially without so many of their creators, as I mentioned, they needed to be able to create turnovers and, and get easy looks at the rim or easy shots in transition, whichever was in the flow of the offense. And that’s what this Cavs team hasn’t done to this point in this in the season is finding the flowy offense. It is sometimes look stagnant. When they get to the half court offense, it’s looked a little bit stymied by the defense because they’ve gone up against decent defenses to start the season. And Toronto’s all the same of all of that, right? They have a revamped team. Scotty Barnes, RJ Barrett, Brandon Ingram, those guys are not players to sleep on on the other end of the floor, even though they’re primarily known as offensive players. Then we get into the second quarter and we see how this Cavs team kind of was missing so much of the offensive creation, particularly when Lonzo Ball was off the floor. Lonzo Ball only played six minutes in that second quarter and when he was on the Floor, they were a plus five without him. It was hard for the offense to create and get passes throughout the offense. It felt more ISO heavy in those minutes without him on the floor. It was hard for Craig Porter Jr. To get things started or Jaylon Tyson at the head of that snake. There were so many different instances where you realize the impact that Lonzo Ball was having, even though he wasn’t necessarily scoring points or even getting assists. Just getting the ball up ahead and getting the ball in the spaces where the teammates can be successful was something that you could see in the second quarter. But it then started translating to the box score in the third quarter where he had eight points, he had three assists. In the third quarter alone, he was 3 of 3 from the field, 2 of 2 from deep. But it was the pesky defense that this Cavs team has wanted and relied on from Lonzo. It will continue to rely on from when it comes to the playoffs. Especially, I think it was the pace.
Evan Mobley: I think Lonzo brought a great pace for us and everyone just followed, moving the ball at a high rate and getting into the next action very quickly.
Ethan Sands: And Kenny Atkinson was loving it. This was the version, the third quarter version of the Cavs, at least the first part of it, where they went on a huge run and were able to take over a 10 point lead in that third quarter. And in itself, that’s when the Cavs felt like they were playing in the style that Kenny Atkinson has raved about. Preach to get up and down the floor, the pace and being able to find spots and get the ball moving and get it out of everybody’s hands, not holding onto it too long, not getting into ISO situations, being able to keep it moving.
Kenny Atkinson: That was it. We had a. We had a flash of kind of the, you know, Cav’s identity.
Ethan Sands: And that was also in part because Evan Mobley kind of shifted his mindset when it came to the second half. In the first half he was hitting a couple of threes, but in that third quarter he was getting to the rim.
Kenny Atkinson: We talked pregame, just. That was a maybe the number one positive of tonight, you know, if you know that our competition level. But I thought he really made. Really was intent on getting to that paint, driving it to the paint and making the right play most of the time again in the game, I think we got, you know, guys, guys think they kind of got to do it themselves. It got sticky. But real positive. I told him in the locker room, I said, I loved how you play tonight. That’s the Evan we know. And love before tonight, you know, we’re 29th and driest, which, which is like, really hurts me as a coach. Like, it’s part of, you know, like our, our identity. So, so we got to get in the paint with the drive. That’s how this league works, create closeouts in the pain. But I, I thought we. Our shot quality was, was pretty, pretty darn good. You know, we got to figure out a way to create advantages. But yeah, we’re a little, little handicapped. But I’m not going to use as an excuse to be 29th in the league and drives like we should be better.
Ethan Sands: That’s what Kenny Atkinson wants from Evan Mobley. That’s what we’ve talked about on this show, right? That Evan Mobley is a player that is learning his role. And he talked about that a little bit after tonight’s game as well, because.
Evan Mobley: I knew they were probably going to swarming come on my drives. But I feel like I did a good job of keying out early in the right plays, making the right decisions overall most of the time. There’s a few in there that I definitely made some different decisions, but overall, I did a pretty good job of that. I feel like I’m finding the groove now and just reading the game wherever comes best, taking the best shots. I feel like getting downhill is definitely my strength, but they’ve been playing a little bit different defense, so I got to read that kick out of it and take what they give me.
Ethan Sands: But finding a balance is still the important part for Evan Mobley. He’s a guy that is being asked, especially with so many players out to do more of the creation. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that he gets away from what has made him successful. Getting into the painted area, starting below the top of the key, and getting the ball in spaces where he still has the opportunity to create. But if defenses swarm him, that means that there’s more spaces for him to outlet and find kickouts and find open players for open shots. And if they make them, that’s not necessarily on him. So I do think that Evan Mobley is starting to get into the flow of what he can do. And this is a part of the early growing pains and why we have been so standoffish of people saying that we don’t know if Evan Mobley is going to turn into this player or is going to be able to be a focal point of the offense because it’s just early on and it’s difficult. And DeAndre Hunter even spoke to the fact of how changing Your Persona after doing it for four years can be difficult. And we’ve seen it for Evan Mobley in the first parts of this season where he’s still learning and in the flow of an offense. And I mentioned this on a different podcast, that in game reps are better suited to help you understand where your game needs to go. And, and I think that cannot be replicated in practices or training camp or summer league or wherever these players might be. I do think that this is something that Evan Mobley is continuously learning. And tonight where he ended up with 29 points, which is a season high for him, I think that illustrates, especially without Donovan and Darius and all these other players that were out tonight, I think you got to see a glimpse of him learning on the fly what was needed of him in every given situation, reading the game as he says, and just playing the game how it’s supposed to be and not being overly unselfish and not being overly selfish, not forcing the action, but still attacking and being aggressive and getting to the spaces where he feels most comfortable. And that area is growing. And if that comfortability continues to grow, I think that’s going to be dangerous for the league and dangerous for opposing teams come the playoffs. And I mentioned DeAndre Hunter a little bit there and I want to back up a little bit just to the second quarter where DeAndre Hunter was basically keeping this offense afloat. He had 10 of the Cavs 21 points in the second quarter, 4 of 7 from the field, 2 of 4 from deep. And he’s another player that is getting thrusted into a role that he has not had. Right. We talked about, we talked about after the Detroit Pistons game where he had six assists, which was a career high for him. Godovan Mitchell, Kenny Atkinson, we’re both surprised that that was his career high because of what his skill set is, but it’s not what he’s been asked to do in his career. And I think that cannot be lost on this conversation of what has been asked of him throughout his career and what that is changing to this season. He’s a guy that without all these players, you need another person that is going to be able to handle the rocks, distribute and create when plays break down. And that’s important for this team. Right? Especially when we talk about the isolation scoring that is needed, but also having the flowy offense. It can be both, but it needs to be balanced. And I think that’s where this Cavs team is starting to find its footing. Even in the loss.
De’Andre Hunter: It’s definitely different no roles about having, you know, played mostly in my career, but I feel like I’ve worked enough to, you know, kind of handle it. And like I said, it’s not going to be great all the time but you know, later in the season is definitely not out.
Kenny Atkinson: I want to get him more touches, especially with dg. Al can’t be Don all the time, can’t be Evan. He’s got to be our second or third scorer and creator. He’s really good on the dhos. When you get good, get him on the dhl. He gets down, go. Our big body could shoot to pull upper. He’s an elite off to dribble shooter. I think for wings he’s in the 93rd percentile. I keep sending him a more, you know, special transition. I love his pull up threes off to off to dribble. But listen him Evan, all these guys I know, you know, I tell him like continually search for better shots, better shot quality. But I liked how aggressive he was tonight. 18 shots, 12 threes. Beautiful.
Ethan Sands: I talked positively for the first half of this podcast and I want to get real for the second half, right? There were some decisions that I was skeptical about. There were some plays that I did not like. When it comes to the fourth quarter and especially after the Cavs went on those different runs and got the deficit down to four. Entering the fourth quarter where we know that the Cavs had the opportunity to come back and win this game but again they were out rebounded 48 to 42. The bench points may have been the biggest thing when it comes to this game when the Toronto Raptors had 48 bench points while the Cavs only had 15. And as I was mentioning about the second quarter and DeAndre Hunter keeping that offense afloat, the Cavs had four players by halftime, just four that scored at all. It was Dean Wade, Evan Mobley, DeAndre Hunter and Jalen Tyson. And Dean Wade had just scored in the second quarter and it was just three points. So I do think that the bench could have done a better job. I do think Kenny Atkinson could have done a better job of selecting which players were getting run. I was not a fan of the Luke Travers minutes tonight. I would have rather seen more minutes from Thomas Bryant, especially with the struggles from Larry Nance Jr. Who hasn’t shown that he can be a consistent rebounder. He had just two rebounds again tonight. And the Cavs also allowed 18 second chance points, which is again still a problem for this team. And I did think the Tyrese Proctor minutes were interesting. The One player that didn’t play tonight, Naquan Tomlin. And I think he was a big question mark coming into the season as a two way contract of what he was going to be able to contribute because of his size, his length, his ability to stretch the floor and be a three point threat. But Kenny Atkinson did not use him tonight and I was surprised by that because of the lack of success that Luke Travers was having, the lack of success that Larry Nance Jr. Was having. Again, he was 0 for 6 and had two rebounds. Luke Travers was.05 from the field and had two points and was getting blocked multiple different times. Also, just knowing what Naquan Tomlin can do with his length defensively and rebounding being an issue for this Cavs team, I was interested to see if Kenny Atkinson was going to go that way. He ended up choosing not to. And we continuously kind of put these two guys in the same category when it comes to Jaylon Tyson and Craig Porter Jr. Being the guys that are going to be the stoppers or the defensive menaces at the point of attack, playing full court, getting into the body of opposing offenses and, and knowing how that can disrupt their flow of the offense and how they get into their sets. And Jaylon Tyson we mentioned has been playing his butt off. He’s been essential to what this Cavs team has done. Even though they’ve lost a few games, it has shown the trust that has been grown over the offseason of Kenny Atkinson and his staff. But Craig Porter Jr. Is in this mix as well. And although Craig Porter Jr’s numbers didn’t necessarily show it in tonight’s game, he had played in 21 minutes, was 2 of 5 from the field, 5 points. He was a minus 17 on the floor. But his ability to create, his ability to play defense at the, at the highest point and then still being able to create for others is something that Kenny Atkinson continues to rave about. And even though it wasn’t his best game, Kenny Atkinson gave him credit.
Kenny Atkinson: I’m really happy with him. He’s doing everything we ask and again we got him in a primary ball handling role. You know, a lot of times he’s out there and I think he’s handled himself well. He’s usually the secondary guy and, but I think he’s, he’s done a good job.
Ethan Sands: But this game ultimately came down to three, maybe four things. First and foremost, the scoring aspect of the game. Having three players scoring double figures is not going to get the job done in most games in the NBA. And of course There was a player that not a lot of people knew about coming into tonight’s game. Jameson Battle, off the bench for the Raptors, who was 7 of 7 from the field, 6 of 6 from deep and had 20 points. The Toronto Raptors as a whole had five players scoring double figures, three players with 20 points. And I do think that it wasn’t necessarily that the defense was bad or the rotations were bad. It was more so that these guys were just hitting the tough shots and sometimes there was over helping in rotations that would allow for them to get an easy look here and there. Jameson Battle was the main one that was being able to have success off of those lack of rotations. And it was also because he wasn’t necessarily on their scouting report as much as he might have been or as much as the other guys. RJ Barrett, Scotty Barnes, Emmanuel Quickley, who didn’t have a particularly good game tonight as well. But the scoring aspect for the Cavs was an issue. The rebounding aspect again, and the second chance points that go along with that were an issue. And as I do talk about the offensive struggles, I do want to point out two things that I think are very important. And of course we’re not trying to be too egregious with these. It’s only the first six games of the season, but the Cavs shooting numbers have been ridiculous. Of their 90 field goal attempts tonight against the Toronto Raptors, The Cavs took 46 of those from beyond the arc. This is a team that was averaging around 42 threes a night last year when they were one of the best teams and the best offense in the entire NBA. And last year we were seeing that because they had guys that were averaging 40% from three for a majority of the year. That’s not the case this season. And yet they’re still hoisting these instead of getting to the paint. And that’s kind of what we were talking about in the third quarter where the Cavs were getting into the painted area. And that way they were finding kickouts with open players because the opposing defense was closing in. And that would allow them to find threads where other players were open and taking easier looks, easier shots. But it was started by attacking the paint and not necessarily every time kicking out, but when it was necessary. This Cavs team was able to do that. But I do think getting into the painted area is huge for them. But on top of that, when you attack the painted area, there is another option for what happens. You get a foul, that’s a Great thing. It’s something that deters the opposing defense and especially in a shorthanded lineup, it gives you a breather and gives you a second. But if you’re at home and you shooting 65% from the free throw line, that also diminishes confidence. It doesn’t matter if you’re at the free throw line at home and they’re free, you have to knock them down. This is a COWS team that has struggled severely from the free throw line to start the season, and it’s something that we have to keep an eye on when it comes to this team because if they’re going to have struggles offensively, you have to take the ones that are free and given to you. The Cavs are 125 for 1 70, which is 73.5% from the free throw line. Through six games, they’ve missed 45 free throws. That’s horrible. If you’re going to have struggles offensively, you need to be able to make the ones that are given to you and that you’re also working so hard to get. Getting into a painted area is not an easy feat, but when you do so, when you have these bigger guys that are getting to the line and drawing the harm in the foul, and especially if you’re not making field goals at all and the turnovers at the end of the game, it felt like that second unit or that third unit, whatever you want to call the bench unit that was on the floor tonight struggled with some decision making down the stretch of the game and the execution of the offense because they simply weren’t used to being in those situations. Because as Chris mentioned on yesterday’s podcast, These guys are 10th, 11th, 12th, and at this point in today’s game, 13th, 14th, 15th guys on the roster. And they won’t be getting these kinds of opportunities when it comes to all of the players on the Cavs being healthy. And I think that’s important to note. And while we’re not making excuses for this team and we’re not trying to say that they couldn’t have won this game, I do think they’re. That you have to take this one in particular with a grain of salt and evaluate it, understanding what was missing while also using it as a learning experience. And for Kenny Atkinson, this was an evaluation period for players who wouldn’t necessarily get these opportunities. And that’s again why I was confused as to why Naquan Tomlin didn’t get reps at all in tonight’s game, even though he was available and has Been working out with the G League team as well. And yet I wasn’t displeased by what I saw in tonight’s game. It showed a lot of heart, a lot of hustle, and a lot of fight for this team to be out. Majority of their significant players, four of their five starting players from last year’s projected starting lineup were not available for tonight’s game. Plus one of their best players in this season was not available. So I do think that this wasn’t a blowout. And as many expected, the Cavs fight was real. The defense was connected for a majority of the game. The effort was unwavering. This is a team that was fighting to the very end, that wanted to win this game. And at points, especially when they were up 10 or cut the lead to four entering the fourth quarter, felt like they had a chance to win it. Some substitutions may get clunky. Kenny Atkinson talked about that as well.
Kenny Atkinson: Again, we made substitution. I don’t think the subs were bad. I think what happens is guys just get out of their role. Everyone gets knocked up a notch and it’s like even Dean Wade, not, not to make excuses for him, but now he’s gotta be more of a playmaker and drive it where we’re, you know, end up with our normal team. He’s. He’s normally just. Just moving it, so everyone just gets shifted. And I think that’s where it got funky when we started to make. Make substitutions there in that. That second half and, and in the first half.
Ethan Sands: But for me, it was a reminder of what this team could be, can be, and what it needs to become. Because the mentality can be there, but the execution just can’t come only after being punched in the face first or when the situation is dire. Because in a situation where you are missing so many key players, you understand that you have to play with a different level of vigor, of intensity. But I do think that the Cavs tapped into something and they realize that it’s a mentality thing. It’s a mental toughness thing that they still have to overcome in regular games. And maybe, just maybe, when the regular guys come back, this will be a game to look back on for the Cavs and showcase what it took to still be in this game, what it took for the Cavs to have a chance. I do not think that any team should be overlooked, and I do think that this game needs to be taken as a lesson for a multitude of different reasons from the Cavs when it comes to mentality, when it comes to rebounding when it comes to things that they can improve on still. But again, and I’m going to end with this, you have to take it with a grain of salt because of what they were missing and how they were able to act even without those players. And I think that might light a fire under this team because of what they seen and what they believe is possible. And especially that third quarter. That’s. I want to come back to that. The third quarter was crucial because that was what the Cavs believe they can be, what they preach they can be. And especially when everybody is healthy, that’s what they want to be at all times. A top offense with pace, with space, where they rely on the defensive intensity to kickstart their offense, and that’s how they get going. And that defensive identity mixed with an offense that we saw last year that was one of the best in NBA history is going to be dangerous. But it has to all come together and it’s not going to happen. As soon as everybody gets back, there’s going to be learning curves, there’s going to be learning periods and early growing pains. But I think we’ve seen that the main issue has been offensive creation and rebounding. And if this team gets back Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell and has them on the floor at the same time or split or alongside Evan Mobley or whatever may be, I think they are better suited to have more success on that end of the floor defensively. And rebounding is still up in the air. And that’s why we have to have this conversation now before they come back about there are going to be growing pains even then, because the defensive part is still where this team needs to hang its hat. With all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wide and Gold top 10 podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subjects. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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