CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands dives into how the Cavs kept their composure in a foul-heavy, physical game and what this performance says about their early-season growth.
Takeaways:
1. Key Injury Updates and Roster Management
The Cavaliers navigated several key player absences and provided updates on their recovery. Darius Garland was held out of the game for injury management on the second night of a back-to-back, a strategic decision to utilize Lonzo Ball’s defensive skills against the Bulls’ high-powered offense. Kenny Atkinson clarified that this doesn’t mean Garland will miss all back-to-backs for the rest of the season, but his condition will be monitored and it will be based on scenario. Additionally, Larry Nance Jr. was sidelined with a minor knee bump from the previous game, though the injury is not considered long-term. In more positive news, Max Strus is progressing well from his late August foot surgery, has begun non-contact drills on the court, and could potentially return by the trade deadline.
2. A Dramatic Second-Half Comeback Led by Donovan Mitchell
After a sluggish first half where they shot poorly and fell behind by 16 points, the Cavaliers orchestrated a massive comeback. The turnaround was sparked in a bizarre third quarter that began with a delay to adjust the rim. Donovan Mitchell, who leads the NBA in third-quarter scoring, continued his trend by erupting for 13 points in the period. He followed that with another 13 points in the fourth quarter, finishing with 26 of his 29 points in the second half. De’Andre Hunter also provided a major spark, contributing 10 points in the third quarter and delivering the “cross up of the year” by breaking Josh Giddey’s ankles before finishing with a dunk, a highlight that electrified the team and the arena.
3. Jaylon Tyson’s Emergence as a Clutch Performer
Second-year player Jaylon Tyson delivered a breakout performance that proved instrumental in securing the victory. After being inserted into the starting lineup for his defensive physicality, Tyson came alive in the fourth quarter, scoring 12 points on perfect 4-for-4 shooting from the field and draining two crucial free throws to ice the game. Beyond his offense, Tyson was trusted with the primary defensive assignment on the Bulls’ Tre Jones late in the game. The performance highlighted the immense trust he has earned from both the coaching staff and his veteran teammates, with Donovan Mitchell calling him a “special human” and noting the rarity of a young player showing such progression and poise in high-pressure moments on a contending team.
4. Excessive Fouling Remains a “Big Picture” Concern
Despite the win, the Cavaliers’ lack of defensive discipline was a significant issue. The team committed 27 personal fouls, which sent the Chicago Bulls to the free-throw line 36 times. The foul trouble was widespread, with five different Cavaliers players recording three or more fouls. Coach Kenny Atkinson acknowledged the problem post-game, stating the team can be “more disciplined” and needs to eliminate “cheap ones where we’re reaching in.” The host identified this as a critical weakness that must be addressed, particularly when playing against fast-paced teams, as it puts immense pressure on the defense and disrupts the team’s ability to control the game.
5. Victory Showcased Critical Growth in Mental Fortitude
The most important takeaway from the game was the team’s demonstrated mental growth and resilience. Instead of folding when faced with a large deficit, frustrating officiating, and physical play, the Cavaliers fought back. Donovan Mitchell emphasized this post-game, stating the team “found a way” instead of blaming external factors. This ability to “bend without breaking” and maintain composure represents a significant step forward from previous seasons, where fatigue and frustration often led to collapse. The hard-fought November win serves as a “tone-setter,” proving the team is developing the maturity and temperament necessary to withstand adversity and win ugly games, a crucial trait for future playoff success.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the One and Gold Talk podcast and I’m coming to you with your latest solo dolo episode of the pod as I recap the 128122 victory over the Chicago Bulls. But before I get into any statistical analysis of the game, I do want to get into some injury updates for you guys beforehand. So first and foremost, as you guys might have noticed, Darius Garland was out for Saturday night’s game against the Chicago Bulls as he was set with injury management resting on the second night of a back to back and it was interesting to see because of the Cavs having played the Washington Wizards, a team that they knew they should have beaten on Friday night. So why did the Cavs decide to play Darius Garland on Friday instead of Saturday? Kenny Atkinson said it had to do a little bit with Lonzo Ball. There’s a little bit more to it than just that. But the fact of the matter was the Cavs did not want to play a game without Lonzo Ball and Darius Garland had to decide which game they would play each in the first and second half of this back to back. My thinking on this would have to be that the Cavs understood that the Bulls offense is more potent than the Washington Wizards and wanted to have Lonzo Ball’s defensive acumen available to them when it comes to Saturday night’s contest trying to slow down their fast paced track race offense. And that was the thinking that I would have had when it comes to the decisions made by the Cleveland Cavaliers. Obviously it’s also to maintain Darius Garland’s health and have him ready for the playoffs. But as Kenny Atkinson said, there are many things that went into that decision that would just be the top of the list for mine. Also, Larry Nance Jr. Was sidelined because he banged knees on with a player in Friday’s game against the Wizards and I do not expect that to be a long term injury. Kenny Atkinson said that it was not severe. Maybe the biggest injury news that we got from pregame Kenny Atkinson was that Max Schuss is progressing well in his recovery from a late August surgery to repair a Jones fracture in his left foot. So we know that Max Drew could potentially be backed by the trade deadline, but we also understand that his flexibility and where he’s going to be at is going to be based on this ramp up process. So he’s starting that process now as he’s beginning to get back on the court and shooting. Sure Kenny Akinson wanted to clarify that this was only non contact drills, but it was progress. Non and I want to reiterate this for Darius Garland’s injury management notion because Kenny Atkinson was very clear on this because he had a conversation maybe with Chris and Washington about how Darius Garland isn’t playing back to back right now and it will be monitored as the season continues and as has his injury continues to recover. As we know, he’s not necessarily at a hundred percent, but he’s back and ready to play enough for the Cavs. So we understand that Kenny Atkinson wants to be clear that he is not saying that Darius Garland will not be playing in back to back for the remainder of the season. How long that is is still to be determined. Okay, let’s get into tonight’s matchup between the Cavs and the Chicago Bulls. We knew there were going to be storylines coming in and one of the biggest ones was Isaac Okoro making his return to rock and arena. Sure, I know people are saying, well, he came back for the preseason, but the Cavs didn’t get to do their due diligence as they did on Saturday night. They had at the first timeout a video board recap of Isaac Okuro’s tenure in Cleveland. The crowd went wild. They understood what he meant to the city and to this team and to the development of the program to get it where it is. And Isaac Okoro gave them the prayer hands as he got back onto the court as a reciprocation of those emotions. So I thought it was a good comeback for Isaac Okoro and he had a night where he displayed kind of his growth as well. 19 points for Isaac Okoro, but you also understand that his defensive acumen helped him go up with Donovan Mitchell for the first half. At last lease, where Donovan Mitchell was held to one of ten from the field. He was struggling and the majority of it was because Isaac Okoro knows how he plays because they practice or train together in summer and they kind of know each other’s pet moves and where everybody wants to get on the floor and how they can be best suited to make the other team suffer. And I think it’s interesting to see how the beginning of the game started because of this. Isaac Okoro was hounding Donovan Mitchell and Donovan was being so strategic in getting off the ball and drawing Isaac away from the players who were going to score the basketball because the Cavs know taking Isaac out of plays or taking him out of actions is going to be the most beneficial to their success. But that only Lasted for a little bit, right, because the cavs went on a 7, 0 run start the game and Chicago had to call a timeout and all these things. But after the Bulls stopped getting in their own way, they were committing turnover, throwing the ball out of bounds and all these other things. They kind of got into their groove in their offense of what they know to do, getting up and down the floor, playing that fast paced offense. And especially because the Cavs were struggling from the field in the first half, it made it that much more difficult for the Cavs to get back on defense and get into their defensive sets. Because the Cavs in the first half shot just 43.8% from the field and 28% from three point range. Which then is coupled with knowing how good the Chicago Bulls offense was in that first half. They shot 56.1% from the field, 71.4% from deep, and 94.1% from the free throw line on 17 attempts in that first first half. So stick with me because that’s a long storyline. Also for this game is the Chicago Bulls getting to the free throw line, but even though they might have been getting into the passing lanes and all these things, they were also being too handsy at the point of attack. It was more so they were not able to move their feet quick enough or move their hips to stay in front. So they were resorted to using their hands to try and get into the, the cookie jar of their opponent and it ended up just being called a foul. Kenny Atkinson had said after the game that they got to clean that up and wasn’t necessarily blaming the refs for all the calls because the Bulls did end up taking 36 free throws by the end of the game. But he did say this is a.
Kenny Atkinson: Tough game to officiate, especially, you know, with all the drives. You know, there’s, it’s like almost like a collision on every play on drives. And those are tough calls. We’ll have to go and look at it, but we, we can be more disciplined. I think we’re getting a lot of, you know, cheap ones where we’re reaching in at the last second or bail, bailing, you know, we got to cut those out.
Ethan Sands: So what kept the Cavs in the game for the first half? Two names for you. DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mobley. In that first half, DeAndre Hunter and Evan Mobley combined for 30 of the Cavs 56 points. And that is also mainly because the bench only scored 14 points in those first 24 minutes while the Bulls scored 35 points off their bench. It was a drastic difference. And of course, as I mentioned, with Darius Garland being out, the offensive flow when it came to the half court was kind of like how it was in the first seven games of the season. Stagnant, clunky, choppy, the ball was moving. But if the possession could not end in the bucket and it was because they were taking late shot clock opportunities and not being able to convert even if they had 18 assists on their first 21 makes, it was only because they were getting in the transition offense and utilizing that and trying these skip passes to get to the open lane. But the point of emphasis was getting into the paint and they weren’t doing that as much in the first half because they took 25 of their 48 attempts from the three point range. So the Cavs went into halftime with a 16 point deficit. That’s a lot. And we haven’t seen this Cavs team really come back from a deficit like that this early on to the season, particularly without Darius Garland manning the offense. But this Cavs team found a way to do it and it started in that third quarter, which started even more weird than you could have imagined. Before the second half even got underway, this Cavs team was waiting to see what was going to happen when it comes to the rim on the other side. The Chicago Bulls came out of halftime out of their locker room and did not like how the rim was looking and had it adjusted even after the Cavs struggled so much in that first half. And Donovan Mitchell said that he might have seen something before the game even began and and there was no adjustment made. So that little fire under Donovan Mitchell, at least in that third quarter and Donovan Mitchell has come into tonight’s game with the most points scored per game in a third quarter in the NPA. And he continued that stretch having 13 points on 4 of 7 from the field and 3 of 4 from deep in that quarter alone, while DeAndre Hunter also chipped in 10 points on 4 of 8 from the field and 2 of 4 from deep. But I got to stop right here. We cannot go any further without talking about DeAndre Hunter arguably having the cross up of the year already and we’re 10 games into the season. That boy put Josh Giddey into a blender. He literally almost broke Josh Giddey’s ankle and then proceeded to go and dunk on Patrick Williams. It was a great sequence and it was something that I feel like we are going to be seeing a lot more when it comes to the highlight reels. Of the season, and particularly because they were in their classic edition uniforms. It’s a classic highlight where we saw wing get into the lane and do what a wing does best. He was talking in the locker room after the game about how he just simply had to go dunking. He could have laid it up, but he had to get his clip, how to get his highlight and finish it the right way.
De’Andre Hunter: I was really just looking at the bench, you know, I want to see how they reacted. I was turned dg. I saw dg. He was like the first one jumped up. Quan was jumping up and down. I don’t think I ever made nobody fall like that.
Donovan Mitchell: I was more impressed with the dunk too. Like he followed it up like, you.
Kenny Atkinson: Know what I mean?
Donovan Mitchell: Like he went there. I just was in shock because I didn’t know he had that in him. You know what I’m saying? I knew he had to cross and then I didn’t realize that there was no contact. Like it was just, you know, straight ankle breaker. And then he got to the rim and finished. And so if you look at me, I’m just. I don’t have any words. I’m just like in shock. But that was tough.
Ethan Sands: So obviously the Cavs put up 40 points in that third quarter and it was the fourth time this season that the Cavs have done so. So going into the fourth quarter, they trailed by just 2 points, cutting that 16 point deficit down just to 2. And that’s exactly where the Cavs wanted to be, particularly when this game was getting good. They’ve been known for late game execution dating back to last year, and they wanted to see if they were going to be able to do it again this season. And I think this was more important, the fact that they weren’t giving up a lead, but going back on a deficit. And that showcased what this Cavs team is going to be capable of later into the season and even into the playoffs. But. But the biggest thing from this fourth quarter, and sure, Donovan Mitchell had another 13 point quarter, 5 of 7 from the field, 2 of 3 from deep, and was big time when it comes to playing through fatigue, which we know the Cavs weren’t able to do in their Indiana Pacer series in the Eastern Conference semifinals. And this Chicago Bulls team, Kenny Atkinson admitted before the game plays a little bit like that, plays a little bit the same style, mimicking that. And that could be a trend over the NBA as a whole. But the biggest takeaway from this fourth quarter was Jaylon Tyson, none other coming through once Again, four of four from the field, two of two from deep, two of two from the free throw line to ice the game at the very end for 12 points. He was huge, not only on the offensive end, but defensively as well. It was one of those games where he was kind of quite Wyatt only doing nitty gritty things on the defensive end that don’t necessarily go praise, but then getting to showcase that in the fourth quarter, you got to see the players on this team not only in the starting lineup, but on the bench unit showing their trust in the second year player and how much growth he’s had. We’ve heard all the stories about Jaylon Tyson working super, super hard, having to be kicked out of the training facility because of all the work he’s been putting in. And to see this kind of come into fruition this season this early on has been such a good thing to see for this young player. The Cavs even went with Jaylon Tyson in the starting lineup over Sam Merrow, who Sam Merrow started the season in the starting lineup when Darius Garland was out. So they could have gone back to that, but against the Chicago Bulls team that played with that run and gun style that I talked about, they wanted Jaylon Tyson to be in the starting lineup, to have that physicality in the guard full court to keep up with Josh Giddey who got crossed up and then came back somehow from that third quarter embarrassment and injury. But they even put Jaylon Tyson on Tre Jones at the end of the game because Tre Jones was the one that was causing them the most problems. So I do think that Kenny Atkinson, you’re seeing his belief in the second year player, you’re seeing the Cavs team simply believing in him to a different standard, to a different level than he got last year.
Donovan Mitchell: It’s crazy. You’re seeing a real life progression in just head games unheard of typically for a younger player on a contending team.
Ethan Sands: Right.
Donovan Mitchell: Like you don’t really, you know, see that and then he doesn’t shy away from the moment, which you know, as a locker room, as the vets or the older guys or whatever, you know, we trust in him and that’s big time.
Ethan Sands: All right, let me get to the big picture real quick though. I do think the foul trouble stuff will was an issue while the Cavs were able to come back from having to play 6:30. That’s how much time was left when this Cows team was in the bonus. So any ticky tack foul was sending the Bulls to the line and that’s huge for the Cavs to have come back from that kind of deficit and still being able to fight and claw their way to a victory. Even when having being hampered and having to play a different style than they had all game. Maybe it helped them a little bit. They had to be a little bit more fragile, had to be a little bit more conservative when it comes to that end of the floor, but they had to be physical on the defensive end when it comes to rebounding and closing possessions. DeAndre Hunter had a big one in the closing minute of the game to set up Donovan Mitchell to go and get a bucket and actually regain the lead. So that was a big thing. But for the big picture, the foul trouble issue, Jaylon Tyson has been a culprit of that. He’s gotten called Hacky Chan sometimes. And Kenny Atkinson has spoke to how Jaylon Tyson needs to improve. Simply being more active while without fouling right and obviously guarding full court and all these different things hurts that. But you just have to be smart in not fouling when you’re on the perimeter. You can live with some of these fouls when they’re driving and you’re being physical and trying to prevent them from getting to the rim and cause that’s what the Cavs want to do. And Jared Allen did have a 3 second violation technical that he cheered for again this year. Might have been his first win all year. But getting to the pain and protecting that is a different story than committing these ticky tack hand check fouls on the perimeter that are going to hamper the team going forward. And that’s kind of what we saw in tonight’s ballgame. And it wasn’t just Jalen Tyson, because five players on the Cavs with three or more fouls. You got Tyrese Proctor, who only played 12 and a half minutes. You got Sam Merrill, you got Evan Mobley, you got Dean Wade and Lonzo Ball. Everybody that touched the court for the Cavs tonight had at least two personal foul calls, which is kind of insane to think about having 27 foul calls and 36 chances at the free throw line for the opposition. So I think this is a defensive issue, it’s not necessarily a fouling issue, but they need to be better at the point of attack defensively, particularly against these speedy teams. But also these teams that want to shoot the basketball from the three point range, getting them out of their rhythm, running them off the line is super important without fouling, of course. So I do think that the Cavs will have to improve in that area when it comes to throughout the season and trying to find someone. If it’s not Jaylon Tyson, maybe Sam Merrill’s coming to this task a little bit. Even though he’s playing through a hit pointer right now, he’s still been good defensively. But to what level are you going to be the next Isaacoro with a little bit more offense than we’ve seen in the past five years? Obviously he had a great night tonight and I think Jaylon Tyson has to continue to take on that role. But it’s also a collective. This entire Cavs team needs to be on its P’s and Q’s when it comes to defense because their defense is their identity and it can lead to their offense. And they cannot solely rely on Evan Mobley and Jared Allen to pick up their slack because that hasn’t been the case, especially when you have the league that’s growing now. And now you have Jared Allen, Evan Mobley having to defend Vucevich and Patrick Williams on a three point line and they’re away from the rim and cannot help or rotate as quickly to protect the rim. And I think that’s something that the Cavs are going to have to see more of, especially when you talking about teams that are going to have these stretch bigs that are going to prevent Jared Allen, Evan Mobley from having the amount of effectiveness as we are used to, even though they are still two of the best defensive bigs and rim protecting bigs in the entire NBA. But I’m going to be real here. I think the biggest takeaway from me and something that Donovan Mitchell talked to me about after the game was the mentality that it took to come away with this victory. Right? This is a, an ugly, choppy, physical foul, heavy, even frustrating game for multiple players on the Cavs.
Donovan Mitchell: That’s the, that’s the mental, right? Like, you know, I mean, we could have sat there and chalked the game like, oh, we fought, but the rest kind of gave it away. No, we, we found a way to do it, you know, within, throughout all that and that’s what you want, you know, and that’s what I said. This season is all about progression, right? How do we find ways to continue to, to battle through things? You know, you’re going to be in the playoff series when you’re at home, when you feel like you should get all the calls and doesn’t happen. You know, just finding ways to continue to mentally push and persevere. And that’s what you saw tonight.
Ethan Sands: Frustration can kind of turn from fatigue into Bad possessions and then the game begins slipping away and all these other things. But this Cavs team didn’t fold and I think that’s a growth aspect. And Donovan Mitchell continues to talk about it. Determination over negativity, Don, right. That’s kind of his motto for his life. But also this team in particular is how are you going to overpower what you’re going through? Whether that’s fatigue, because we saw it in the pace series and now having to overcome that now how are you going to respond? And responding is something that the Cavs haven’t been able to do positively all the time when it matters most. And them being able to do it this early, obviously as a November win, but this is a tone setter for who they can be, for who they want to be. But I think this Cavs team learned something last year that they’re applying this year and also had to learn against Chicago tonight. If you can’t run with the team, you’ve got to be able to withstand them. You got to trust your half court execution, rely on your composure and turn chaos, which it mostly was tonight into control because that’s what they did tonight. And let’s talk about this kind of analogy that I wrote about in my game story, right, the matador, right? Because to me this was a game of the running of the Bulls. They kind of knew coming in that this was going to be a track race. And you, if you don’t get out of the way where you don’t keep up, you’re going to get run over. And the Cavs for three and a half quarters were getting chased, tossed around and trampled. But in the end they became that matador because they were poised, they were calculated. And at the free throw line, Jaylon Tyson them left to free throws to end the game, deadly when it mattered. And we have to admit, right, obviously Donovan Mitchell went superhero again in the second half, 26 of 29 in the second half. But he didn’t have it easy by any means. He had to push through and have the physicality, the toughness, the mental wear. To be able to do that and having someone as young, as hungry, as scrappy as Jaylon Tyson, who was also tired from having to cover full court even yesterday against the Washington Wizards game, like having him and seeing him continue to fight, continue to push, I think that gives his team a little bit more confidence. And I think Donovan Mitchell used the word special human when describing Jalen Tyson. And Kenny Akon talks about just like continuing to give him opportunities, continuing to throw him the ball. And I think that’s really important for this team, especially when you talk about the future of it. And it feels like today’s game was kind of like an overview of what this Cavs team wants to be or their ST story, at least right now with this group. Because the Cavs don’t want to be flashy. Sure, it helps her. It’ll be fun. They’re going to be fun. They’re going to be ready, right, for everything that comes their way, but they want to be more mature than they have been in the past. They’re trying to be the team that can bend without breaking. And Kenny Akinson even said it after the game tonight, like he knew coming in that this was going to be a struggle without Darius Garland and Max Struz to put. And I don’t think anybody thought that Darius was going to miss just seven games, which is a positive. But Kenny Atkinson admitted after the game.
Kenny Atkinson: Like, I’m really pleased right, with the guys we’ve had out in and out and didn’t think we’d be seven or three. And, you know, schedule’s been not the hardest schedule in the league. I’d send. Someone said it was top 10, you know, so we haven’t done it against, you know, weak competition or anything like that.
Ethan Sands: They have learned so much about themselves early on already in different ways to win because you can survive tempo, you can survive a bad whistle. Sometimes you got to survive chaos, as the Cavs love to play. Controlled chaos, even Cavalanches can be chaos in themselves. But that’s the kind of resilience and maturity that this Cavs team needs to have, wants to have in April and May. Because when the lights are getting brighter, as Jared Allen likes to say, and the pace is getting faster, as all the teams around the league are doing, it starts being more about their temperament and their ability to withstand. And Donovan Mitchell being able to play as he has and being exactly what the Cavs need, like either switching it on and getting 30 a night or being an empowering player that has eight or nine assists, that’s great. But also having players around him that he can trust in Jalen Tyson, DeAndre Hunter, Evan Mobley. The Cavs can continue to survive in the Eastern Conference against teams that don’t necessarily have the same camaraderie or chemistry or any of those different things. So yeah, to me, tonight’s game felt a little bit like the running of the Bulls. And I think in November, that’s the kinds of wins that you need, especially when you’re talking about a team that’s not fully healthy and how dangerous they can be. The resolve of having 1 through 10, 1 through 14 be able to contribute because there were players tonight that came off the bench and Tyrese Proctor who had small roles but was able to knock down some big shots and keep the Cavs close in these situations. So I definitely think it was important for the Cavs to have the game like they did tonight early on against a team that is also 6 and 3 and can kind of be seen as a playoff contender to this point, at least a play in team. But the way that they’ve started the season, if they’re able to stay healthy, I don’t think teams can sweep on the Chicago Bulls because of the pace that they play with and the style that continues to mimic the Indiana Pacers and what they were able to accomplish accomplish. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the One and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text to word style. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out sa.
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