CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this ‘Hey, Chris!’ rendition of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor answer questions from subtext subscribers and fans about Darius Garland’s toe injury, the Cavs’ defensive lapses and more.
Takeaways:
Q: What is the latest on Darius Garland’s toe injury, and what is the broader concern about how the team is handling the news?
A: Darius Garland is dealing with the same left great toe he had offseason surgery on. The official designation is “injury management,” which was likely used because the team had already planned to rest him for Wednesday’s game. While the feeling around the organization is more promising than it was on Monday night after the game, there remains a lack of clarity. This situation has revived criticism of the Cavaliers’ health department for its lack of transparency, drawing comparisons to past incidents where injuries like Jarrett Allen’s pierced rib and Garland’s previous turf toe were initially downplayed. The speakers argue that this communication strategy creates a “Pandora’s box” of speculation and that while there are reasons for privacy (HIPAA, competitive advantage), the organization would benefit from being more forthcoming with information.
Q: The team’s off-ball defense has been criticized early in the season. What’s causing these lapses, particularly from De’Andre Hunter and Jaylon Tyson?
A: The defensive issues stem from both individual weaknesses and the team’s adjustment to new personnel. De’Andre Hunter has a career-long reputation for being a strong on-ball defender but a less-focused off-ball defender, often getting caught “ball watching.” For Jaylon Tyson, his struggles are part of the learning curve of adapting to NBA-level defensive schemes, rotations, and physicality after playing minimal minutes last season. The hosts suggest that this is a new group that can’t play defense the same way as last year’s team, and Kenny Atkinson is still learning how to tailor his schemes to the current roster’s strengths and weaknesses.
Q: The Cavs’ points in the paint have fallen from 9th to 26th in the league, and Evan Mobley seems less effective around the rim. What is driving this offensive shift?
A: The offensive changes are part of a deliberate, long-term process. The team’s primary goal is not to be great in November but to peak for the playoffs. A key part of this strategy is developing Evan Mobley as more of an offensive hub, which has drastically changed his shot profile. Compared to last season, where 70% of his shots came from within 10 feet, that number has dropped to around 50%. Concurrently, his frequency of pull-up shots has skyrocketed from 8.2% to 27.9%. This experimental approach, aimed at expanding his offensive arsenal, has led to inconsistency and fewer high-efficiency opportunities at the rim, contributing to the overall drop in paint scoring.
Q: With a 7-4 record, why is there so much fan consternation, and what is the team’s internal mindset about the start of the season?
A: The team’s internal mindset is that the regular season is a process, and they “don’t give a rip about November.” They are focused on ascending throughout the year to be at their best for the playoffs, even if it means sacrificing some early-season wins or stats. This includes managing player workloads (resting stars) and experimenting with lineups and offensive roles. However, many fans, spoiled by last year’s 64-win season and the league’s most expensive roster, have higher expectations for immediate results. This has created a duality in the fanbase between those who preach patience for May and June success and those who are frustrated by the team’s perceived underperformance and want to see a return on their investment now.
Q: How does this season’s team compare to last year’s, and what is a realistic expectation for their standing in the NBA?
A: It is a mistake to directly compare this year’s team to last year’s. While many core players remain, there have been enough personnel changes and philosophical shifts to make it a distinct group that is still discovering its identity. The hosts emphasize that despite the “rocky start,” the Cavs are 7-4, have a top-10 offense, and are still considered by many around the league to be one of the favorites to come out of the Eastern Conference. They belong in the same tier as teams like New York, Miami, and Milwaukee. They are not, however, in the same conversation as the NBA’s proven elite, like the defending champion OKC Thunder, and the organization is not concerned with earning that level of notoriety in November.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation. I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today from Miami from South Beach, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Cavs beat reporter and it is another rendition of of hey, Chris. And I do think we have to do this first and foremost, Chris, because we had a number of subtexters text in and ask about Darius Garland and we gave as much information as we had. Chris, you gave an update last night after your sources texted you on it actually being confirmed that it was Darius Garland’s left great toe which he had off season surgery on. And now we’re kind of all in this boat of waiting for the Cavs to send an official report of what the update is on Darius Garlett. And before we get into your thoughts and also obviously Chris, if you have any insider information, but I think this is another miscommunication, mismanagement of the Cavs health department when we talk about how they have operated over the last few seasons, dating back to Jared Allen’s pierce rib being described as a bruised rib and Darius Garland last season as a toast brain rather than turf toe and having those indications out in the forefront for people to make their own assumptions about the situation. But now you kind of allow Pandora’s box to be opened yet again and people are speculating as to what this is going to mean not only for Darius Garland, but for the Cav season. Because if it’s a, an aggravation of the injuries, okay, cool. You get three, four, five weeks potentially, and then Darius balance back. If it’s a re injury, this couldn’t basically be another surgery depending on the severity of the injury. What are you hearing, Chris, and what are you thinking about this entire situation?
Chris Fedor: Well, I was told around 6 o’ clock that the Cavs were working on an update on Darius, an official update on Darius. Um, but I was told that it wasn’t going to be anything that much different than what was on the injury report. And what’s currently on the injury report for the Cavs is injury management related to his toe surgery, related to his big toe. Um, so I think, you know, over the last couple of days there was already conversation about using one of these games as a rest game we pinpointed here on the Whiny Gold Talk podcast Wednesday for a variety of reasons. So it’s hard to get a true gauge of what’s going on with Darius, especially under the, the, the assumption that Wednesday was going to be a rest night for Darius anyway. So I do Think it’s interesting and I do think it’s important and I do think it’s probably promising that the Cavs didn’t have to label a new injury for, for Darius. They were able to list him out with injury management related to his toe. But I think there are a couple of things, Ethan. I think number one, I think Darius is going to feel pain in his toe early in this return last night against Miami. It was the third game that he has played since coming back from off season surgery. And I just think even though the surgery was done to relieve pressure, to create more space to help him feel better, when it came to stop start shiftiness, change of direction, all that kind of stuff, I do think there’s a little bit of Darius has to learn how to play with this. Darius has to figure out like okay, when the pain pops up, is that just a normal thing or is that a bad, problematic sign? Is there just going to be a little bit of lingering pain here in the early going because he’s putting more pressure on his toe because he is increasing his physical activity in a pretty drastic way given the fact that he didn’t participate in training camp, given the fact that he didn’t participate in the preseason and given the fact that even though he had a ramp up process, it wasn’t meaningful, consequential NBA games against NBA caliber players. So I do think there is a little bit of this where Darius probably is going to feel pain. Darius probably is going to feel discomfort. There probably are some moves that he makes that are going to be more uncomfortable than other ones. And I think he just has to get over a mental hurdle of that. That doesn’t mean that it’s a re injury and it’s going to take him out for a month or two months or three months or something. It’s easy for me to say, but that’s the sense that I get when it comes to this. There’s less, there’s less concern, I would say today, the feeling around the organization less concern than there was leaving Miami last night. And that’s because, you know, there wasn’t enough time to fully evaluate him and see what it was going to feel like the next day and see what it was going to look like the next day. So it does feel relatively promising. It’s. It’s his toe, it’s the same toe that he had surgery on. So there’s always going to be concern there. Right. But it does feel relatively promising, more promising than it did leaving the arena last night. But I think we’ll have to wait and see. Not. Not Wednesday’s game, but. But Thursday. Is he out there Thursday at home against the Raptors? And then is he out there again over the weekend and is he going to keep popping up on the injury report as injury management, or is there actually going to be a new diagnosis, a new label for this toe thing if he is going to continue to be on the injury report? So the Thursday one to me is more telling because if, if he misses the game, they might have to put a different characterization than what they did for Wednesday night.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I’m no doctor and I do not know necessarily exactly how long these procedures take to evaluate a player, particularly after re aggravating or whatever we want to call this for Darius Garland, but donovan Mitchell is 15 hours away in Louisville right now, right. He had time to go and do an event for himself and for the Adidas Basketball company in Louisville over a thousand miles. It feels like there was enough time. And I don’t know, obviously, again, I’m not a doctor, but it feels like they should have had enough time, especially after evaluating him after yesterday’s game Monday night and then also evaluating him today, as we were told. It just feels like it could have been done better the way that this is being handled. And as much as we appreciate and understand what this organization has done in the health department of this team and being cautious and giving us information as quickly as they deem possible, there’s still room for improvement in my eyes when it comes to this in particular because of the history of, let’s put it this way, taking their time to give information away.
Chris Fedor: These kinds of conversations have come up a number of different times over the last couple of years. And I think we have enough evidence to say, and I think it’s fair to say that transparency is not the best trait for this organization. There are some organizations in the NBA that will disclose what grade a hamstring strain is, what grade an ankle sprain is, the specifics of each injury. That’s just not the Cavs. That’s not how they’re going to operate as long as president of basketball Kobe Altman is in charge. I think transparency is, is going to be something that we have to continue to fight for. We have to continue to dig into ourselves, but it’s not going to be a strength of, of this organization. I wish it was. I wish it was. And, and I think the fans have a right to know exactly what these guys are dealing with and, and the nature of, of these injuries. But there’s also the other side of this and there’s the HIPAA laws and there’s a competitive advantage to not letting the opponent know exactly what a player is dealing with and the severity of what a player is dealing with. So so I do see both sides, but I lean more toward the Cavs. These players, this organization would all benefit greatly from a little bit more transparency.
Ethan Sands: Again, when I said donovan Mitchell is 15 hours away, it’s 15 hour drive from Kaseya Center, KFC Young center, but it’s like a two and a half hour flight. Whatever. But I do think that there’s multiple things going on in the background that we have to be cognizant of. And to give credit to the organization or give credit to Kenny Atkinson. He has been more upfront about injury designations when we have asked pre game this season, at least actually telling us if players are going to be in or out. In recent history that hasn’t been the case. So maybe things are moving towards the up and up. Who knows. But let’s get into these questions from our subtexters when it comes to this episode of hey Chris, first and foremost Chris, we talked a lot about it coming into the season about the defense potentially being better without Darius Garland on the floor. And one of our subtexters asked throughout the early season it feels like the Cavs off ball defense has been weak, especially with Jalen Tyson and DeAndre Hunter and not just on the last play of the Miami Heat game on Monday. Is this because their defense is more focused on gambling for steals or just a lack of focus? And Chris, I wrote a little bit about this for my preview article tomorrow ahead of Wednesday’s game and I think DeAndre Hunter, who was brought here to be a two way wing to be able to play on both ends of the floor and have success, has gotten caught this season. Too much of ball watching. It happened at multiple times in the Miami Heat game on Monday. It happened on the last play of the game. Um, and I think there’s different instances where you see him’s focus somewhere else. And as the subtexter mentions, this Cavs team has been extremely handy, has been extremely oriented on trying to get into the passing lanes and disrupt opposing offenses in that way. What do you think about how the Cavs defensive principles have looked this year in comparison to years past?
Chris Fedor: Look, that has been the knock on DeAndre throughout the course of his NBA career. I mean it’s something that a lot of people discussed when the Cavs traded for him. He’s not as locked in as an off ball defender, he’s not as good of an off ball defender. The thing that the cavs like about DeAndre is his on ball defense, his ISO defense, his ability to switch, multiple positional versatility, that kind of stuff. But, but yeah, off the ball has been a weakness so of his throughout his career. And Jaylen Tyson I think is still learning the nuances of NBA style defense. Sometimes he gets caught ball watching, sometimes he gets lost when the Cavs switch into his own, sometimes he doesn’t make the switch that he probably needs to in the switch heavy concept. So I think for him it’s part of the growing process. It’s part of the learning process. It’s part of getting more comfortable and getting acclimated to different things that the Cavs are doing defensively. Getting more comfortable and acclimated to his new teammates. He played 453 total minutes as a rookie last year in the NBA. That’s, that’s not a lot. So I think when you have young guys, there aren’t too many guys that come into the NBA as young dudes who are really good at defense. They have to learn a lot of these nuances. But for DeAndre, yeah, I think it’s a weak point of his game. I think he does get caught ball watching. I do think he gets caught looking in the wrong direction. And you know, part of it is Andre, he’s got to get better at it. The other part of it is the Cavs have to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of a lot of these defensive players and tailor their schemes and their systems to, to the personnel that they have. That’s how it works. I mean, you might want to really, really run a switch heavy defense and that’s something that you believe in greatly as a coach. I’m just talking in generalities here, but if you don’t have the personnel to be that kind of defense, you can’t do that. You might be a coach that really, really wants to run a certain kind of zone, but if you don’t have the right personnel to run that effectively, then you can’t do that. So I do think Kenny’s going to have to learn a lot about all of these individual players and what kinds of things they can handle and what kinds of things they can’t. What kind of schemes are beneficial for their particular skill set and what schemes aren’t. I think it’s all part of the learning process, especially early into year two of Kenny Atkinson. But I do think it’s a fair criticism of both Jaylon TYSON and of DeAndre Hunter. And I would also say that as much as we criticized Isaac Okoro, we were very, very cognizant of all of the things that he brought on the defensive end of the floor, the communication, the fighting through screens, the toughness, the physicality, the point of attack, defense and stuff like that. So this is a new group of personnel that just probably can’t play defense the same kind of way that we general, we have grown accustomed to watching this Cavs team because the personnel is a little bit different. And as much as they have Jared Allen, they have Evan Mobley, it doesn’t mean that, you know, every single player that they put on the floor is going to be a great defender or a plus defender. I think for some of these guys, we’re still learning about their capabilities as, as defensive players and, and their defense as a whole has suffered.
Ethan Sands: I want to get into the injury report a little bit before we continue with the questions for Wednesday’s game against Miami, just because I think it’s significant and I think it will pan out to be important, obviously with how the game plays itself out. But the Cavs are going to be without Donovan Mitchell for rest, Evan Mobley for rest, Darius Garland for injury management, Jaylon Tyson for a concussion protocol, and Max Struth for his foot surgery on the off season. And we knew he wasn’t going to be ready by this time. And Also Larry Nance Jr. Is questionable for the game and he’s missed the last two contests with a left knee contusion. And Chris kind of getting into the next question when we talk about the versatility of the offense, this question comes from Tim C. In Canton, Ohio. The Cavs points in the paint have really fallen off ninth in the league last season to 26 this year. Both Jared Allen and Evan Mobley have dropped out of the top 25 individually and Evan Mobley’s touch around the rim just seems off. What’s your read on what’s driving this? Just personnel changes or something else. And Chris, the reason I bring up the injury report is because one, the Evan Mobley thing is going to be interesting when it comes to the rest and how often they use this and what kind of plan they haven’t set up for him this year. But it feels like this Cavs team is going to understand that they took 65 three point attempts in Monday’s game, which as you mentioned in our last podcast, is a franchise record, but also kind of having to force themselves to do things differently. And the personnel that they have coming into tomorrow’s game isn’t necessarily a three point heavy team. No Don, no Darius, no Max, no Jaylon Tyson. Four guys, and obviously Jaylon Tyson is just being added to this conversation now, but four guys that are known for their three point production. Well, who are you going to go to in this game against the Heat on Wednesday and how are you going to be effective and get to your spots? And I think this is a big question for this team, particularly with how they’ve handled the beginning of the season. So, Chris, to get back to this question, what do you think is going into lack of drives? Is it personnel or something else? And then also just Evan Mobley’s touch around the rim, what that has looked like to begin the season?
Chris Fedor: I think we have to start here and I don’t want to go overboard or anything along those lines, but players have said it enough that I think it’s fair to put it this way. As bluntly as I’m going to put it, the Cavs don’t give a rip about November. They don’t like they’re competitive and they want to win these games when they’re in that moment, but they’re not sweating results. They’re not looking at some of these analytical numbers and saying to themselves, oh my God, this is a really, really bad sign or oh my God, this is a really great sign. This is a process and they don’t want to be great in November. They don’t. And they don’t care to be great in November. So I think that’s part of it. I think just the overall approach to their season is very, very different, Ethan, than what it was last year. Here’s the other thing. Max Drew said this during his end of season wrap up, and it’s part of what made the loss in the Eastern Conference semifinals to Indiana so difficult for these guys to process. And it’s why it was so hard on so many of them that it took weeks to get over it. They felt like that was a lost opportunity. They felt like that was a special team that had what it took to win a championship and they were wrong about that. They ran into a team that was better than them, that could exploit some of their deficiencies. And obviously, you know, the Cavs were dealing with injuries as well, so all of that combined just made it really, really difficult for the Cavs to accept that particular exit. And what makes it even harder is that they knew that there would be some kind of personnel change and they knew that they couldn’t just copy and paste. Some of the personnel was going to be the same. The things that they wanted to do within the system, some of those things were going to be the same as well. But there’s just no way you can take what happened in 24, 25 and say that’s what it’s going to be in 25, 26. So in so many ways, the Cavs are learning about this version of the Cavs. They’re still learning about this version of the Cavs. Strengths, weaknesses, lineups, combinations, where they can be successful on the offensive end of the floor, where they can’t, where they can be successful on the defensive end of the floor and where they can’t, what kinds of. Of sets they want to go to, in, in what situations. It’s not the same team. And. And I hate to keep reiterating that point or driving that point home, but. But it’s true, because so many people are comparing this Cavs team to last year’s Cavs team, and I think it’s a natural thing, but I think it’s off base because I just don’t think it’s the same team in a variety of ways. Even though a lot of the personnel is still the same, there have been enough changes to the personnel that that makes it different, and I think the Cavs are feeling that. I also think the way that the Cavs are deploying Evan Mobley is very different than what it was last year. The way that they’re deploying Sam Merrill at times is very different than last year. The way that they’re using DeAndre Hunter at both ends of the floor is different than last year as well. Lonzo Ball is not the same kind of player as Ty Jerome, and the list goes on and on and on. Beyond the fact that they didn’t have Darius for the first seven games, that they still don’t have Max Strus right now, that they are still incorporating different guys into the rotation. And some of these guys that they’re using in the rotation as high minute guys were low minute guys last year. So you combine all that and you just have a different version of the Cleveland Cavaliers, and they’re still trying to figure out who they are, who they are at their core, what’s their identity. That is. That is something that you can’t just sit there and say, well, we’re going to be this, we’re going to be that, we’re going to be this. You have to. You have to grow into that. You have to figure out sometimes on the fly what your identity is going to be. And that’s why it was hilarious to me at various points last year that the Cavs were one of the best offenses that we ever saw in NBA history and they were talking about being a defense first team. Like nothing of who they were last year pointed to being a defense first team. So I kept asking people, are you sure? Like, really, you’re still going to lean into that over and over and over again when this is who you are offensively? So I do think there’s just been, it’s not drastic necessarily, but there’s been enough change to make this team different. And I think that’s what you’re seeing in some of these stats. If you talk about the drives, if you talk about the ISOs, if you talk about the shot profile for some of these players. The other thing is it’s dangerous, it’s dangerous in early November to read too much into specific stats and then form a conclusion that way. We’re going to talk about them, we’re going to talk about all the things that we see, we’re going to give our thoughts in our analysis, and we are going to base it in many ways on some of the numbers that either support those things or don’t support those things. But I just don’t think there’s enough data right now to form any definitive conclusions on who the calves are and who they’re going to be. Even if there are some alarming numbers. I think the shot profile of Evan Mobley is incredibly alarming. And I wrote about this the other day and it’s again, I don’t think these are drastic things, but they’re different enough that it’s probably not the best thing for Evan Mobley or the Cavs. I mean, his shot profile, fewer paint touches, more ball handling, more jumpers, more threes. Last year, about 70% of Evan Mobley’s shot attempts came less than 10ft away. And his frequency percentage on pull up shots was 8.2. Again, it’s very, very early. These numbers can normalize, they can change. But so far this season, as of the other day when I wrote this, his pull up rate has gone from 8.2 to 27.9. Okay. And the number of attempts that he’s taking less than 10ft away, that has dropped significantly as well. He’s gone from about 70% of those shot attempts to right around 50%. So it’s all part of, of what Kenny Atkinson wanted to do with Evan. Kind of like explore different aspects of his offensive arsenal. But I think it’s hard to sit here and say that it’s leading to success because the version that the Cavs have gotten of Evan Mobley on the offensive end is still very inconsistent. It still looks very unpolished at times. It looks very, very forced. So I think that’s part of the reason why you’re not seeing him necessarily finish around the rim with with the same efficiency. It’s because his opportunities to do that have dropped and because the way that he’s being guarded has changed as well. And when you don’t have as many opportunities at the rim and you start missing those limited opportunities, those are going.
Ethan Sands: To show up more all right, Chris, I want to get to our last question comment, concern from our subtext or kind of reiterates exactly what you just said. And this is Lloyd from Mayfield Heights, Ohio, who says why is there so much consternation about the Cavs Rocky start Offensively, the Cavs made it clear that they were focused on getting ready for the playoffs and they felt like to achieve this goal, they had to get Evan Mobley established as an offensive hub to reduce their reliance on their guards. Clearly it is a work in progress, but if he is ready in May or June, who cares about November? As a fan, I am prepared to sacrifice November wins for May and June wins. And Chris, when I as I said, I think this kind of goes into what the Cavs have said themselves and what we think about this organization and what this Cavs team wants to happen. But I think there’s becoming fewer and fewer of these types of fans like Lloyd, who one kind of got spoiled last year, and I think we talked about it at the end of the regular season last season when the Cavs started struggling a little bit and fans were like, well, this isn’t the team I came to know. And now it’s kind of the same situation. It’s like, well, you guys won 64 games last year. Well, you guys had the second best offensive rating in NBA history last year. What is this? What am I watching? And the expectation has grown. The arena has some changes, made some alterations to make it look better. We’ve had fans get more involved in what the Cavs are doing. They have the Cavalanche ready to go, the snow ready to fall at any point that they stop. Still haven’t been able to do that at home yet this season. I just think there’s been a change when it comes to fans and it’s no longer we’re in a rebuild mode. Hey, we realize how much we’re Paying these guys, we’re the most expensive team in the league. Show us something for it. And that also goes to show, like there’s the other side of this coin to Lloyd, which is a fan literally sending a subtext saying, hey, I’m going to cancel my season tickets because if Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley can’t play 30 minutes after a day off like today, why am I watching? I think there is always going to be this duality of the fan base and I don’t know what to make of it yet because in some points they’re right to be upset. In other points, you also just got to be patient with this kind of team and with just the overall look at the 82 game season, particularly as Chris has mentioned, this team and us on the Wine and Gold Talk podcast have told you what they have thought about the regular season coming in. We were having this conversation in the summertime. I was getting all excited come August and September and Jimmy and Chris were like, ayo, chill out. Because this is going to be an interesting season and it’s going to be a difficult one to cover because of all the ups and downs that are going to go on and the changes from what we saw last year. So I do think that what Lloyd’s saying has validity to it, of course, because as we mentioned, this is what we’ve been hearing from them since the Pacer series ended. Now it’s kind of being a reality check for the fan base and what they have to kind of bear their heels down. And it’s like, well, we don’t want to cheer for the Browns. The Guardians aren’t playing anymore. Can we have some level of positivity in this, in this town? And obviously they look across the Western Conference and see okc, who was the champ from last year. Comparison is the thief of joy, everybody. You got to come to reality at some point and realize that each team is different and this Cavs team is going to be different from what they were last year as well.
Chris Fedor: I think there’s a lot here and I just don’t know what the right way to approach this is. Honestly, I don’t. And I’m still trying to figure that out as a reporter who covers this team, because I think it’s a very, very different season from a coverage standpoint. On one hand, the Cavs have, have set certain expectations and they have set a bar and a standard that I think it’s fair for a lot of fans to say, are you meeting that standard okay? On the other hand, it’s not like the Cavs are the Orlando Magic here. The Orlando Magic came into the season and they had all these lofty expectations and there are people that were saying, hey, maybe conference finals, hey, maybe they could be the number one team in the Eastern Conference. Maybe they could be top three in the East. And it’s very, very early, but it’s fair to say that a 5 and 6 Orlando is underperforming. That the things that they worked on throughout the course of the off season, the moves that they made in the off season just haven’t worked out yet to the level that a lot of people expected of them. So we don’t have to sit here and pretend that the Cavs are the Magic or the freaking Washington Wizards or the Charlotte Hornets or something like that. They’re seven and four. They’re one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. They’ve got one of the best point differentials in, in the Eastern Conference. They’re a top 10 offense. Even though they’re not the number one offense or the number two offense, they’re still a top 10 offense with, with room to improve and reasons to believe that they are going to ascend as the season goes on. So I do think there’s so much nuance to this conversation, but we can’t lose sight of the fact that 11 games in, if you pulled a bunch of people around the NBA, they would still say that the Cavs are one of the favorites to come out of the Eastern Conference, just like they were coming into this season. Like nothing that we have seen in the first 11 games should change that view of whether the Cavs can win the Eastern Conference. I mean, are we sitting here saying that Miami is clear cut better than them? Are we sitting here saying that the Detroit Pistons are clear cut better than them? Are we sitting here saying that the New York Knicks are clear cut better than them? Like maybe New York is. But that was a conversation that was maybe New York, maybe Cleveland, maybe New York, maybe Cleveland. That was the conversation coming in. If somebody said New York, you weren’t going to sit there and be like, there’s no chance the Knicks could win the Eastern Conference. There was a legitimate debate about which team was the best team in the Eastern Conference. But we’re in the same place, like we’ve taken a different path to get there. And there are different aspects of the Cavs that have been concerning in the first 11 games that we have pointed out that we have talked about. So it hasn’t been a straight line to the place where they started at the beginning of this season, but they’re in that same place. And there’s reasons to believe that as they get healthier, as they have more time together, as they start figuring different things out, that there’s room for this team to grow, mature and evolve. And that’s what the Cavs are focused on. That’s what the Cavs ultimately want. They want to ascend. They want to go this direction as the season goes on. They want to be peaking in March or April and they’re managing the regular season that kind of way. As we talked about way back this off season, the Cavs want to win. They’re competitive. They don’t like losing. But it’s not a situation where they have this mentality of win at all cost. They’re just not going to operate that kind of way. They’re not. And I don’t think they need to. And despite the quote, unquote disappointment that some fans are feeling at the beginning of the season, and maybe even the frustration the fans are feeling at the beginning of the season, they’re seven and four and they are still one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference and they still should be looked at as one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. So I think it’s. I think it’s hard again, because they set a specific standard and you’re trying to say to yourself, are they reaching that standard? Are they living up to that? Are they living up to that on a nightly basis? It’s also hard because Oklahoma City’s just different. Different. They won the championship for a reason. They are clear cut, the best team in the NBA. And if I’m a player in the league, if I’m an executive in the league, if I’m a coach in the league, you don’t think this way. But I’m just making a point here. You’re looking around and you’re saying, we’re all playing for second. Like, that team’s just too good. So, like, you can’t or you shouldn’t compare the Cavs to the Thunder because they’re not on that level. They haven’t shown to be on that level. They haven’t proven it to the same level that OKC has. The teams that you should be comparing the Cavs to, New York, I guess Miami, because of the way that they started the season, I guess, you know, Orlando, Milwaukee, the Detroit Pistons, and I still think the Cavs belong in that conversation with all of them. The only team in the NBA that they’re not in the same conversation with honestly, maybe two. I don’t know that they’re in the same conversation as Denver. I don’t know that they belong in that same tier. And they’re definitely not in the same conversation as okc, but they never were. They needed to show that in a different way that they belonged in that conversation. They haven’t to this point. They weren’t going to be able to in October and November. And I don’t think they care to like have that level of notoriety that some of these other teams are getting. Not in November at this point in time.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I would just want to say I’ll throw Atlanta in that conversation for what they’re also dealing with Notre Young. That’s huge. And they’re still 6 and 5. Yeah, Chris, I think this is an interesting season and we’ve kind of been alluding to it for a long, long time. And that’s kind of why I was like, hey, we’re going to put all this effort into our summer podcast. We’re still going to do five days a week. I implore you, if you were not watching or listening. And our subtexters fall victim to this as well. Because we podcast so often, there’s so much more and new content coming out. Like some questions that you might ask or want to know we’ve answered a while back. Like sometimes you just got to go back and be like, hey, I got some extra time on my hands. Let’s go watch from what the summer had. And I promise you the the headlines and the descriptions will give you a good insight to what the conversation was and what answers you could get from those conversations. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your weekly hey Chris questions and have a shout out and get your own shout out shout out on the podcast. So the only way to do so sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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