CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor delve into whether the Cavaliers should recenter their rotations around Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. This pairing served as last season’s most reliable blueprint.
Takeaways:
Q: What was the overall sentiment regarding the Cavaliers’ 108-100 victory against the Memphis Grizzlies?
A: Despite the win, the hosts expressed significant concern about the team’s performance. Chris Fedor argued the result was more indicative of the Grizzlies being a poor, injury-depleted team (playing without Ja Morant for 42 minutes) than a sign of the Cavs playing well. He described the Cavaliers as a team that is “stuck in the mud,” “searching for themselves,” and in need of a “mental reset.” While Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley led a strong 32-16 fourth quarter, the hosts believe the standards for the Cavs should be much higher than struggling to beat a four-win team.
Q: What is happening with the team’s style of play, particularly on defense?
A: The Cavaliers are struggling to establish a consistent identity on both ends of the floor, especially without key players like Darius Garland. Defensively, the team, which has built its reputation on the rim protection of Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, had to shift its scheme mid-game. They moved from a zone defense to a “switch-heavy” coverage to counter Memphis. While the ability to adapt on the fly was seen as a positive, it also highlighted a core vulnerability: opposing teams are successfully pulling Allen and Mobley away from the basket, neutralizing their primary defensive strength.
Q: What has been the impact of rookie Nae’Qwan Tomlin on the team’s rotation and energy?
A: Nae’Qwan Tomlin, a two-way contract player, has carved out a significant role by providing a crucial “jolt” of energy and effort that the team otherwise lacks. His minutes have steadily increased, and his infectious hustle and defensive versatility have been praised by teammates like Donovan Mitchell. However, Chris Fedor cautioned that it’s a “bad sign” a team with championship aspirations has to rely on a rookie to manufacture energy. He noted that Tomlin is currently providing more impact than veteran Larry Nance Jr. and that Kenny Atkinson will likely need to continue using him to provide a spark the rest of the roster isn’t consistently delivering.
Q: What is the single biggest factor determining the Cavaliers’ success and championship potential?
A: Both hosts agreed that Evan Mobley’s performance is the ultimate “barometer” for the team’s ceiling. The Cavs’ leap into contention last season was attributed to Mobley’s ascent to an All-NBA and Defensive Player of the Year level. His inconsistency this season is a primary reason for the team’s struggles. His strong fourth-quarter performance against Memphis, where he was aggressive and impactful on both ends, was highlighted as the version of Mobley the team needs consistently. Fedor stated that greatness “is not a sometimes thing,” and until Mobley performs at that high level for entire games, the team’s offense will remain clunky, and their defense will fluctuate.
Q: What is the significance of the on-court pairing of Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley?
A: The podcast suggests that playing Evan Mobley alongside Donovan Mitchell is the “blueprint” for unlocking Mobley’s best performance. Mobley’s dominant fourth quarter coincided with him sharing the court with Mitchell for the entire period, replicating a successful dynamic from the previous season. The hosts noted a clear comfort level between the two, with Mitchell actively looking for Mobley. As the team gets healthier, the hosts wonder if Coach Atkinson will prioritize reuniting this pairing more often, as it appears to be the most effective combination for pulling the best out of Mobley and, by extension, elevating the entire team.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And with me Today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Cavs Beat reporter and we’re coming to you guys after the CAVS latest win. 108-100 over the Memphis Grizzlies. And Crisp, this Cavs team has looked stuck in mud at points throughout the last couple of games. But in tonight’s matchup, they were able to overcome adversity, as Donovan Mitchell has put it, and get a win with a fourth quarter performance that you only see when a team is capable of of putting together stretches. But Chris, they could not have done that without the leadership of Donovan Mitchell himself, who had 14 of his 30 points in the final frame, and Evan Mobley, who not only sparked his best quarter offensively in the fourth, but his defense spurred that as well. What did you take away from tonight’s matchup?
Chris Fedor: Yeah, to me, tonight’s result, Ethan, was more about the fact that the Memphis Grizzlies aren’t good at basketball than it was anything about the Cavs. I don’t like the way that the Cavs are playing right now. I don’t think the Cavs are playing very well. I think they’re trying to find themselves. I think they’re trying to figure out who they’re supposed to be with this version of the roster that they have available to them. And I just see a team that is searching, searching for a lot of different stuff. And if they didn’t play against a four win Memphis team that had lost three in a row coming into tonight, that was playing the final 42 minutes of tonight’s game without a point guard, the result probably would have been a lot different. So to me, I’m not necessarily focused on the 32 to 16 fourth quarter. I have higher standards for the Cavs. I have higher expectations for the Cavs. I don’t think they’re playing good basketball right now. And I see a team that really needs a mental reset and I think they need time. Whether it’s the remainder of this month, the next couple of weeks, however long it takes. I think they need time to figure out who they are and who they’re going to be.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I wrote about this for the website recently that this Cavs team is kind of in an identity crisis. They’re still trying to figure out who they are offensively, particularly without there is Garland and Max Drew on the floor, but defensively they’re struggling as well and obviously I asked Evan Mobley after the game what he thought the identity of the team was, and he again leaned into this defense identity first. And that is the main thing for this Cavs team and what has been said over the course of the last few years. But we had to see the Cavs shift their defensive approach to be able to mitigate some lapses on that end of the floor and prevent the Memphis Grizzlies from getting to the paint or simply just drawing fouls. And that was switching from being in kind of a coverage in a 2, 3, a 3, 2 zone and then switching into a switch, heavy defensive coverage where this team was utilizing its speed, its hands and also just its length to allow themselves to have better opportunities to prevent the offense from getting to where they wanted to go. And that’s kind of difficult to notice. It’s difficult to see when you see a Cavs team known for his defensive identity, known for having two bigs and Jared Allen and Evan Mobley and supposed to have this rim protection, but not showcasing that at multiple different points. And I think that is something that we’re still looking to see what kind of defensive acumen this team is going to show because Kenny Atkinson has talked about it in the summer league that he wanted this Cavs team to have more up front point of attack defense, and he’s wanted them to be more handsy and to be more aggressive because they have Jared Allen and Evan Mobley on that end of the floor. But also in that case, you have to understand that the opposing offenses are going to pull those guys away from the basket. And Evan Mobley and Jared Allen had tasks with Santiago Dahmer or Jaren Jackson Jr tonight and that makes things more difficult for them to protect the rim. And I think it’s interesting to see how the Cavs change that. But overall, what they’re going to do stylistically for the remainder of the season, where obviously it’s matchup based, but most teams are going to try and take those big guys away from the basket to allow their guards to, to get down to the dribble handoffs and also just the dribble drives that we’ve seen already early on into the season to get to their spots or just simply get to the rim without them being in the way.
Chris Fedor: Yeah. Again, I think this is a hard conversation because so much of this, if you want to put it in context and perspective, Memphis is bad. And what Memphis had available, they don’t have a point guard on the roster. John Morant played six minutes and then he left the game because he’s dealing with a strain calf. Ty Jerome can’t play. He’s sidelined for another probably couple of weeks. And they don’t have Scotty Pippen Jr. Either. So I think part of the reason why the Cavs were able to have success in the fourth quarter with the scheme that they used is because the personnel that the Memphis Grizzlies had made it easier for the Cavs to go that direction. However, I’ll say this, Ethan, I do think it’s a positive sign for the Cavs that when a certain situation called for it, a certain matchup called for it, and a certain set of circumstances called for it, the Cavs were able to switch their defensive scheme on the fly. And they had enough quality personnel to feel like they could go to the switch. Everything defense, the switch one through five defense, you have to have the right kind of personnel in order to do that. And because Nae’Qwan Tomlin stepped forward, because Nae’Qwan Tomlin is seemingly carving out a bigger role and he has that level of versatility and he has that skill set and that athleticism and that length, combined with Dean Wade, who is a switchy guy, and DeAndre Hunter, who’s a switchy guy, and Lonzo Ball can switch one through four. The fact that the Cavs have the personnel to be able to shift that way on the fly, that’s really, really good.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. And to Chris’s point, I think that is important, right? The personnel of who the Cavs had and also who the Grizzlies didn’t have. And when you look at the box score of what the Memphis Grizzlies were able to do offensively, it’s lackluster. They shot 36% from the floor on just 86 attempts. They shot 28.1% from 3 point range on 32 attempts. But you also understand that this is a Cavs team that, as Chris was alluding to there before he got caught off by Internet troubles. Nae’Qwan Tomlin, Dean Wade, guys who were able to defend multiple different positions, are helpful in the rights of playing next to Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And I think it’s interesting because Nae’Qwan Tomlin didn’t get his season debut until Wednesday, November 5th against the Philadelphia 76ers. And since then he’s continuously grown his minute load. Right? In that first game against the 76ers, he literally played one minute. Then in his next appearance on Friday, Nov. 7, against the Washington Wizards, he played six minutes. Since then, since that game Nae’Qwan Tomlin has played in double digits at minimum 18 minutes, then 22 minutes, then 18 minutes again tonight. And I think what we didn’t see from the beginning of the season was Kenny Atkinson, who has admitted that he wanted to be more experimental, not going to some of these guys. And now obviously with more injuries fluctuating throughout the system and needing a bigger presence, Nae’Qwan Tomlin has now gotten that opportunity and has made the most of it. Right? We talked about the Miami Heat game where he played 18 minutes but he wasn’t that effective. Then you come into the next game against the Toronto Rafters and he played 22 minutes and he had a game where it was arguably his best game in the league with 18 points, 8 of 10 against an actual substantial opponent. And then tonight again, as we mentioned, coming in and having more impact defensively than offensively and just his energy and his infectious might to just keep fighting and running up and down the court is intriguing because we talked about in this league, the NBA pace is growing. We’ve talked about how the game is getting faster, how bigs are running by Evan Mobley and Jared Allen and getting to their spot quicker. On the other end of the floor. You have a guy now like Nae’Qwan Tomlin who simply is a ball of energy. And Donovan Mitchell said it after the game, sometimes he would check him out of the game a little bit mentally and be like, oh, he’s not going to be able to get back or he’s not going to be fast enough or whatever. And then Nae’Qwan Tomlin had that extra burst and it was surprising. But then it made Donovan and the teammates around him want to play to that level as well. We talked a little bit about that, Chris. The importance of just wanting to play with a certain amount of intensity. For 48 minutes the Cavs didn’t have that. They plug in Nae’Qwan Tomlin. Some of that comes back. What do you think the importance is of that? When you see a player who’s again on every given night fighting for his life, fighting for a rotation, fighting for a spot in the NBA, especially on a two way contract that is willing to do the little things, but also can invoke change in the playstyle of.
Chris Fedor: His teammates, it shouldn’t take that, Ethan. I mean, if we’re being perfectly honest with everybody here, all of Cavs nation, it shouldn’t take Nae’Qwan Tomlin coming into the game to provide a level of energy. The Cavs weren’t playing the second game of a back to back. They were at home. They had plenty of time to recover from the travel against Miami. This has been a running problem for the team, right? Playing with energy, playing with effort. And I know it’s November and this team is focused more on on April, May and June, but you can’t develop this habit of just not playing hard or not playing with juice, as Kenny Atkinson said, you can’t develop this habit of somebody coming off the bench and providing that jolt for you. Consistently. Not consistently. And it felt like that happened in Miami, and it felt like that happened again tonight against Memphis. And both times it was the same guy. It was Nae’Qwan Tomlin, because that’s who he is. That’s how he has to play. Remember the other night, we were talking about just how this team is built? This team is more built on skill. This team is more built on talent. They don’t have too many guys on this roster who their thing is playing hard. So I do think at points, and this is a bad sign, but I do think at points, they’re going to have to manufacture that some kind of way. And Nae’Qwan Tomlin, I think because he provides that to a different level, to a different level than a lot of the other guys on this roster, I think Kenny’s going to have to continue to go to him. I think Kenny’s going to have to continue to work him into the rotation because he just brings that spark. He brings a level of activity, he brings a level of disruptiveness. He has a nose for the basketball, and I do think it can be infectious. I don’t think it should come down to that. I don’t think the Cavs should have to rely on that from one particular player. But the way that they’re playing right now, the way that they’re finding themselves right now, if they’re not going to have that, if they’re not going to play with that level of intensity, that level of focus, that level of effort, then, you know, you can go to. It’s. It’s a nice, comforting feeling, I think, for somebody like Kenny Atkinson to know that he can go to Nae’Qwan. And at the very least, even if he’s a foul magnet, even if he’s airballing threes, even if he’s making mistakes, he’s going to give them a jolt. At the very least, he’s going to do that. And at this point, he’s giving the Cavs more than. Than what Larry Nance Jr. Is. And I think that’s something that. That Kenny has to consider here.
Ethan Sands: Chris, I’m in agreement. I think Larry Nance Jr. Has kind of played himself out of the rotation unfortunately, and the Cavs had high hopes for him coming back to Cleveland this year after signing him in the off season to a one year deal. And he played decently to begin the season. But when we talk about consistently having energy and that hasn’t been the case for Larry Nance Jr. His rebounding hasn’t been there. He’s turning the ball over and simply hasn’t been making shots either. And then you have Nae’Qwan Tomlin who comes in and brings similar traits to what Larry Nance Jr. Has. Obviously Nae’Qwan Tomlin hasn’t knocked down as many shots, but I do think Nae’Qwan is giving the Cavs something new. And when we talk about Larry Nance Jr. I mean we saw it tonight, the frustration with his own play. He got called for three fouls in a row and then he got subbed out as he should and he went back to the locker room and as he was on his way there he took off his headband and threw it into the tunnel and it was just a moment of frustration and you could see it on his face even after the contest because Larry Niz Jr. Only played four and a half minutes in tonight’s contest and it was because he simply could not make an impact. And I think the Cavs are starting to look in different directions and that’s part of this experimentation period that we’ve been talking about for Kenny Atkinson. Some nights it’s going to be Thomas Bryant, some nights it’s going to be Nate Quantomin, some nights is going to be Tyrese Proctor. Some nights it’s going to be Craig Porter Jr. Depending on what the game calls for. And I think that’s part of what Kenny Atkinson and Donovan Mitchell continue to articulate to us is that they are excited about the process when it comes to this team because of the different options they are getting when it comes to the playoffs. And obviously it’s early, but there have been conversations about Jaylon Tyson, how he is going to impact games in the playoffs. How is Nae’Qwan Tomlin a two way player which would have to be placed on a standard contract because we know that they don’t get to play in playoff games. So I do think it’s interesting how the Cavs are perceiving these players so early on into the season and how they’re utilizing them and getting a feel for what they are capable of. But Chris, I do want to get into Evan Mobley. And Evan Mobley is a player that we know came into tonight’s game. It was kind of back to back nights where he went up against an opponent who he’s competed against with an individual award, right? Jaren Jackson Jr. Won a defensive Player of the year award over Evan Mobley in recent history. The last game against the Toronto Raptors, Scotty Barnes won Rookie of the Year over Evan Mobley. Jerry Jackson Jr. S to start tonight’s game was very successful. He was able to get off to the races, scoring 17 points in the first half while Evan Mobley had just 11. But the efficiency for Jaren Jackson Jr. Was suboptimal. He ended the game with 26 points, but his field goal percentage was just 26.1% on 23 attempts from the field, 6 of 23, 2 of 8 from deep, 25%. And he had 12 of his 26 points come at the free throw line via 14 attempts. So I do think it’s important to note that this Cavs team has continuously given up fouls, and that’s an area that the Cavs are still trying to better themselves because we understand this is a team that wants to be aggressive at the point of attack, wants to be more hands, wants to be more physical. That’s a different way to show toughness, but they have to do so without fouling. And the other part of this conversation is the Cavs as a whole have not shot well from the line when they’re getting free opportunities. There were 19 of 29 tonight, which is just 65.5% from the charity strike, which is not acceptable. And especially in a game that was as close as it was throughout the entirety of it, you could see the frustration on the faces of the coaching staff and the players themselves. This Cavs team has consistently got to the free throw line. I believe they’re 10th in the NBA in free throw attempts per game, but they’re 24th in free throw percentage, 76.3% from the free throw line. Tonight they were 19 of 29, 65.5%. One, it’s unacceptable. Two, if they make free throws, some of these games are a lot easier to manage than they make them. And I think that’s an underlying thought, especially with how the Cavs have been driving the basketball as of late. And also as we look at the overarching view of the season, not driving enough. But could that also be because they know if they drive, they’re not necessarily going to knock down the free throws? I mean, last year Donovan Mitchell was irritated with himself after missing one free throw. That’s been a common denominator for everybody. Like Evan Mobley tonight. It felt like when he went to the line, you knew he was going to split. And I think that’s something that this Cav stadium needs to address, needs to think about, needs to talk about, because it’s a critical part of the offense and what they do stylistically and it should be an advantage and not seem as much as a disadvantage for this team.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, they can’t get in the mentality that you were talking about, Ethan. They, they still have to drive the ball, they still have to get contact, they have to try and find a way to finish through contact. They’ve got to put pressure on the defense over and over and over again. That’s just who, who they’ve been in the past, and that’s a big part of, of what opens things up for them offensively. Get into the paint, have the defense make a decision, get the defense to move around a little bit. See if you can get yourself in advantageous situations. And even if Evan is going to shoot 5 of 8 from the free throw line, like, he still has to be attack minded. Even if Donovan Mitchell is missing free throws like he did tonight against Memphis, he still still has to be attack minded. Same thing when it comes to Jared Allen, all these guys. That’s how this offense needs to function. I still think that’s how this offense functions at its best.
Ethan Sands: But back to Evan Mobley. I think it’s extremely important that we got to see a version of himself that looked like Evan Mobley from last year where he just took over a quarter. Evan Mobley was simply more aggressive. He had eight points, was a plus six team, had seven rebounds and two assists. This is a guy that was playing timid for the first three quarters, and I don’t know what happened in the fourth period, but he simply had a different aggressiveness to him from the start. And of course, yes, you can look at the defense and see that he was being more active on that end of the floor as well. And maybe that could have spurred or helped him get into the offensive flow. But even from when the the Cavs pass the ball in, Evan Mobley was attacking the painted area and playing to the style that he had in years past. What he did last year, more specifically, trying to assert himself. And that is the version of Evan Mobley that I think this Cavs team has missed. And partially this is also having to be with what I mentioned in a couple of Recent podcasts how because Evan has been struggling, Donovan Mitchell could be seen to play more minutes next year him to alleviate some of that pressure and take away some of the responsibilities that were early on given to him. And that has something we’ve seen over the last two games. And in the fourth quarter in particular in tonight’s matchup, you could see the spacing kind of open up because they were still fearful of what Donovan Mitchell could do, but they had to be wary of Evan Mobley as well. Both of them are benefiting, as we saw on that fourth quarter, and we mentioned it a little bit early on the show. They combined for 22 of the Cavs 32 points in the final frame. And it gave him more confidence, more space to be aggressive and simply attack minded, which is, I think, what the Cavs need from Evan Mobley for the entire 48 minutes rather than just 12 minutes in a contest.
Chris Fedor: And I think the other thing, Ethan, it felt like it was coming in the flow of the offense, and it felt like it wasn’t as forced as it has been. It did feel more like Evan and what the Cavs have seen from Evan in the past. And I know that part of this is trying to get him to evolve, but that can’t come at the expense of who he is at his core and what has made him special. And I think it’s a balancing act that Evan’s still trying to figure out and the Cavs are still trying to figure out. But it looked a lot better in the fourth quarter for all of the reasons that you mentioned. And the fourth quarter was really the only quarter it felt like the Cavs didn’t have to work extremely hard to generate quality offense. And even Evan himself didn’t have to work extremely hard to generate quality offense because his teammates were getting him the ball on the move because he didn’t have to ISO. Because he didn’t have to take his guy off the dribble because he wasn’t starting so far away from the basket. All these different things. It’s like if. If that’s going to continue to be the formula for, for Evan to be successful and the Cavs to be successful, then that’s fine. That’s fine. It doesn’t mean that you have to go away from your big picture Evan Mobley plan, and it doesn’t mean that you can’t continue to introduce some of these other things that, that you want out of Evan. But right now, like, it does seem like he’s still more comfortable the way that, that he was utilized in the fourth quarter. And maybe that’s the answer that the Cavs have been looking for in the first couple of weeks of. Of this season. Maybe they got the answer tonight in the fourth quarter. I think it depends how it carries over against Milwaukee and then the following game and the following game and the following game. But this could be a potential blueprint type thing of, okay, this. If we want Evan to be the best version of himself, like this way to attack might be it the way that they played in the fourth quarter, especially on the offensive end, where it felt like Donovan kind of pulled them out of the mud and then Evan had a hand in pulling them out of the mud as well. You don’t want to get into a situation where it’s just like Donovan having to go supernova. Donovan accounting for 18 straight points for the team, you don’t want to consistently get in those situations, but he continues to be the only guy that can consistently create advantages for this offense. With Darius Garland still out, with Max Stru still recovering from his foot surgery, I think that’s probably not a great sign for the Cavs. If we’re talking big picture. Even if we’re talking about in the short term, that’s. That’s a lot to ask of Donovan. I think DeAndre has to find a way to be a better advantage maker for this team. Um, I think Evan has to find a way to consistently be a better advantage maker for this team. I think Lonzo can to a different degree, but. But it comes in a different form, and it’s always in the form of looking for his teammates and creating shots for his teammates, or at least the majority of the time creating shots for his teammates rather than creating for himself. And they played Memphis tonight, so I think it goes without saying that there are some correlations here. But they desperately miss what tide Jerome brought them during the regular season. As much as he was unplayable toward the end of the series against Indiana, his value to them in the regular season and what he brought to this offense is missed. And I don’t know how they replicate that, to be perfectly honest with you. Darius coming back, whenever he does, it’s going to take care of a lot of this stuff. He is somebody who can, you know, break down the defense, get into the paint, look for his shots or for his teammates, and then that kind of like, puts everybody else in their proper roles. When you talk about the usage within the offense, when you talk about the touches within the offense, shot attempts and all that kind of stuff, um, but the way that they’re constructed and, and what they have with this personnel, they’re gonna have to find other answers because it does feel like to me that they are a playmaker short, that they are an advantage maker short. And I think they’re working through that the best that they can. But I, but I don’t know, but I don’t know that Evan is ready for that role the way that the Cavs were hoping that he was ready for that role. And the bottom line is if Evan doesn’t become that, then it almost doesn’t matter.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I think not to look around the league and because comparison is a thief of joy, but Cooper Flag legitimately said on the record that he, he was not ready for the point guard role that Jason Kidd tried to thrust him in and begin the season. I don’t think Evan Mobley’s ever going to say he’s not capable of doing something, but I think deep down we can admit that he is not an offensive creator at this point in his career. And whether or not somebody else steps up around him, I do agree with you. I think DeAndre Hunter, 1, needs to take more than eight shots in these types of games. 2. This is the Memphis Grizzlies. They are not a good team. It should not have been close. I think the Cavs continuously play down to their opponent unless the opponent is playing down to them so they catch them by surprise, I. E. Miami. But we talked about this in the playoffs last year. Donovan Mitchell having to exert himself to a level where he’s contemplating whether or not he can lead the league in scoring isn’t a good thing. And that’s a conversation that we’re going to have closer to the midway point in the season, depending on where this cast team is at, depending on how long it takes Darius Garland to get back right and healthy. And obviously Kenny Atkinson spoke about it, about how he’s kind of still work his way back to 5 on 5 contact and getting into the run of that kind of offense. And I think that is interesting because of what this Cavs team needs from Darius Garland. Because as much as Donovan Mitchell can create almost anything he wants and you can see it by the bench players oohing and ahhing and standing up and cheering when Donovan Mitchell makes a great play. It’s difficult and Darius Garland is the engine of the offense and I don’t think he’s ever gotten enough credit for that because of how smooth he makes this offense flow. But without him, Donovan Mitchell was kind of looking around Waiting for somebody else to raise their caliber of performance. And it simply hasn’t happened. And I think, sure, we can talk about the Cavs came away with the win tonight in the fourth quarter was an emblematic performance of what this Cavs team might want to do for the season. Oh, we didn’t really care about the first three quarters. We only cared about the fourth quarter. That’s kind of how this Cavs team is looking at the season. But still, it comes back to me, the intensity portion of it, the fight portion of it, and simply being able to. The Cavs might say we didn’t really have to play good the first three quarters because it’s the Memphis Grizzlies, but you should want to. Right? That’s the adversity you have to overcome. You should want to be able to figure out what is going wrong at halftime, not in the fourth quarter with six minutes to go and you’re still trailing. So I do think that this COWS team has a lot of questions that it still needs to answer about itself. And as I said earlier, I wrote this for the site. I still think this COWS team is searching for this version of its identity because they are not the 64 win juggernaut that, as Evan Mobley said it after the game, blowing out every team that they face. But they are still trying to figure out what this version can be successful at. And even if Darius Garland doesn’t come back soon, I think they need to find a way to be successful without him. Because who knows what that situation is going to look like when he does return.
Chris Fedor: Well, I think there’s one commonality if we talk about last year’s team to this year’s team. And I think that so many people inside the organization tend to say that Jared Allen is the barometer, um, for this team’s success. And I don’t think that’s true. I don’t. I think it’s Evan Mobley. I think how Evan Mobley plays dictates the Cav ceiling and whether they’re winning these games in the short term. Look at the other night against Toronto. Evan was an essential no show and they lost to Toronto. Um, look at the fourth quarter, the fourth quarter tonight. That was, that was the best version of Evan Mobley. That was defensive player of the year Evan Mobley. That was second team all NBA Evan Mobley. Now, it didn’t happen for all four quarters, but it happened for one. And it was good enough against this Memphis Grizzlies team. But like that Mobley, the way that he was impacting the game the way that he had his fingerprints all over what the Cavs were doing at both ends of the floor. The Cavs took the leap last year because Evan Mobley took the leap. And yes, there were other things that were involved with that as well. Kenny Atkinson, his offensive system, Jordan Ott as an assistant coach, putting together that kind of offense. Ty Jerome, six man of the year. But the Cavs took the leap that so many people wanted them to to take. Because Evan Mobley became second team all NBA, because he became defensive player of the year, because he became a first time all Star. That was the thing that happened that allowed the Cavs to ascend and become this dominant force that we saw and we saw flashes of it tonight in the fourth quarter against Memphis at both ends of the floor and we’ve seen other flashes of it at various points in the first couple of weeks of this season. So if you want to know, if you want to know how well the Cavs are going, how well they’re playing, usually you can just look at what does Evan Mobley do, how is he impacting the game at both ends of the floor. And I know that sounds simplistic and, and that that puts a lot on Evan, a lot of pressure, a lot of responsibility, a lot of expectation. But if we’re talking about the Cavs chances of winning a championship, if we’re talking about the Cavs being being a team that can be a legitimate threat in the Eastern Conference. That’s not about Dean Wade, that’s not about Nae’Qwan Tomlinson, that’s not even necessarily about Max Strus coming back from off season foot surgery. That’s about Evan Mobley being the guy who made second team all NBA last year. About a guy playing like an all star. Has he played like that this year?
Ethan Sands: No, only in spurts.
Chris Fedor: No, only in spurts. Not with the consistency that he showed last year. So it’s on him. So much of who this team becomes and how successful they are. Like, it’s about Evan. He needs to be what he was in the fourth quarter tonight against Memphis for a majority of the game. He needs to understand that. Greatness, stardom, yes, there’s a lot of responsibility that comes with that. But greatness and stardom is not a sometimes thing. And until he plays at a more consistent level, I think you’re going to see an offense that is stuck in the mud. I think you’re going to see a defense that ebbs and flows. I think you’re going to see a Defense that is more toward 10 than it is 1, 2 or 3. Something along those lines. He controls the ceiling of this basketball team more than any other player. The, the what they do in large part, you just have to look at what Evan Mobley does.
Ethan Sands: I do think that it made sense that he was kind of pressing in that first half in the first three quarters, even with his off season trainer being there and like trying to get to the dribble moves that they had worked on all summer, trying to get to the painted area, but also trying to get to his mid range that they had worked on all summer. And not to discredit the work that they did because in some points it was working. But there’s a level that Evan Mobley can tap into that is when he is most comfortable and in the space spaces where he’s most comfortable. Yep, that mid range game right now isn’t in that. Getting to the rim. We’re shooting the three. And as we saw in that fourth quarter, as Kenny Atkinson said, maybe a three pointer allowed him to get more comfortable at the rim. Sometimes this season it’s been the opposite. Maybe sometimes making a few buckets at the rim allows you to feel more comfortable from three, but you have to get out of this middle ground where you feel like you cannot get past your opponent. And the best option is this little turnaround 15 foot jumper that falls short most of the time. And I do think that is something that obviously having your trainer in the room can do to you because you understand the work that they put in to help you get to where you are. But it should never take away from who you are. It should never take you away from the game where you’re successful. And I think in that fourth quarter, as you mentioned, Chris, Evan Mobley was just like, it’s go time. He said that it’s the fourth quarter, sometimes you just had to go get those. And that mentality, that brain flip, and I still hate this cliche, this saying of flipping the switch or whatever, but whatever that was, that allowed him to have that assertiveness, that aggressiveness in the fourth quarter. Evan Mobley needs to have that at all times. And I know you like to say most of the game, that’s the mental focus, the mental fortitude, the mental toughness portion that we talked about a lot on this podcast for this team coming into the season, having that for 48 minutes, that’s it right there. That’s the toughness. Because I’m not questioning Evan Mobley’s toughness in his heart to Want to go win games, Mental toughness and maybe even discouraging himself because he talked about it a little bit after the game as well. Not getting away from your game, even if you’re missing a couple shots, is important for him as well. Confidence in the NBA, Chris, is still a very important thing.
Chris Fedor: And I don’t think it’s coincidental, Ethan, as, as you brought up, I don’t think it’s coincidental that the best quarter that, that Evan has played maybe all season long, it coincided with being on the floor the entire time next to Donovan Mitchell. They built something last year. It was purposeful. And then because of some things that, that were uncontrollable for the Cavs, Kenny Atkinson had to change up that rotation. He had to change up those lineups and those combinations. But if you’re talking about the best partner for Evan Mobley, to probably pull the best version of Evan Mobley out of somebody, it would be Donovan Mitchell. Right? So there’s just a comfort there when, when Evan shares the floor with Donovan, there’s a comfort there. And you could see Donovan trying to look for Evan. You could see Evan being demonstrative and wanting the basketball and all these different things. So it’ll be interesting to see, you know, when Darius actually does come back and if he can get back to the all star version of Darius Garland, what does Kenny do? How does he change his lineups and his rotations? Does he try to find more times throughout the course of the game where Donovan and Evan shared the court together again? At the beginning of the season, it was difficult because they didn’t have Darius and they had to stagger Donovan and Evan and sometimes Donovan was going to lead the offense and then the other points, Evan was going to lead the offense and they were working through that kind of stuff. But when this team gets back close to full strength or at full strength, is that something that, that Kenny has in the back of his mind that he says, yo, we gotta go back to more of what we did last year with those lineups and those combinations.
Ethan Sands: I agree. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop it’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Job sacred. We out.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.