CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, host Ethan Sands unpacks a Sunday night in Cleveland that felt like a celebration of the city’s past, present, and future.
Takeaways:
Donovan Mitchell is Playing at an Elite Level Fueled by Trust
Donovan Mitchell’s stellar performance is marked by more than just his 37 points against the Clippers. His scoring has become more “unforced” and efficient with the return of Darius Garland, but his leadership is what truly stands out. Mitchell is actively empowering his teammates, exemplified by his continued belief in Dean Wade despite a poor shooting night, and by passing Kyrie Irving for the fifth-most 3-pointers in franchise history. Kenny Atkinson noted that Mitchell is in a “money spot in his career” with “great control of the game,” leading to questions of whether any guard in the league is playing better. This elevated play is combined with a noticeable spike in rebounding, which, while beneficial for igniting transition offense, raises concerns about long-term sustainability.
De’Andre Hunter Has Emerged as the Team’s Most Consistent Player
De’Andre Hunter is described by Donovan Mitchell as the “most underrated player” and the “most consistent player all year,” yet his impact often goes overlooked. Hunter’s offensive game, particularly his passing, has been unlocked in Cleveland because he trusts the system and his teammates to make the right play and return the ball if needed — a contrast to his time in Atlanta, where sources indicated the offense was so dominated by others that he felt pressure to score on any given touch. Now integrated into the Cavs’ system, he is thriving, setting career highs in assists and consistently scoring while trusting the team’s ball movement. This transformation highlights his comfort and the successful integration that is tapping into his full potential.
The Cavs Are Reigniting Their Defensive Identity
The Cavaliers’ defense is showing significant signs of improvement, moving away from early-season struggles to establish a more robust and adaptable identity. Against the Clippers, they successfully deployed a “blitz-heavy” scheme to neutralize stars James Harden and Kawhi Leonard, holding them to a combined three assists and 3-for-11 shooting in the second half. This strategic success is part of a larger trend, with five of the team’s seven best defensive-rated games occurring in their last seven contests. The team is learning to leverage different looks, from funneling players toward Evan Mobley in the paint to employing active small-ball lineups, building a versatile defensive foundation that will be crucial for the postseason.
The Mitchell-Mobley Partnership is Key to Unlocking Evan Mobley’s Potential
The on-court chemistry between Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley is proving vital for Mobley’s development into a more aggressive and intentional player. The podcast highlights specific plays that showcase this dynamic, including a transition lob where Mobley used his physicality to create space from a defender before the catch — a subtle but significant sign of his growing assertiveness. Mitchell’s trust in Mobley is empowering the young forward, and the coaching staff recognizes that this pairing is essential for getting Mobley comfortable and confident heading into the playoffs. This connection is seen as a cornerstone of the team’s offensive strategy and long-term success.
Injuries Have Forced a “Playoff Prep” Mentality and Built Invaluable Depth
While dealing with numerous injuries, the Cavaliers are using the regular season as a “rehearsal for the spring.” The frequent absences have forced rotation players like Nae’Qwan Tomlin and Jaylon Tyson into significant minutes, building experience and creating a deeper, more resilient roster. More importantly, the team has shifted its focus inward, concentrating on building principles, schemes, and habits that are transferable to any postseason opponent, rather than game-planning for a specific matchup like the previous year. This mentality of self-improvement and adaptability is preparing the team for the inevitable curveballs of the playoffs and fostering a collective trust that runs from the top of the roster to the bottom.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Speaker A: What up, Cavs nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold podcast. And it’s another solo dolo episode of the pod. And I’m coming to you guys right after the Cavs 12th win of the season. They collected it against the Los Angeles Clippers 121:05 on Sunday night. But, guys, I want to start here. This game felt a little different in the essence of Cleveland itself, because the Browns won on a Sunday afternoon, and Shador Sanders stepped into Cleveland history by becoming the first Browns quarterback to win his debut start September since 1995. Because of that, you could feel this funny split tension inside Rocket Arena. In the first half, folks kept subtly checking their phones, tracking the Browns right along with the Cavs as they sat in their seat. Then once the Browns sealed the victory, you could sense it immediately. Everybody’s day was already made. And then the Cavs came along and added a cherry on top to start the week. But even before we got into tip off of tonight’s game between the Cavs and the Los Angeles Clippers, Rocket arena felt like it was filled with echoes of the past. Obviously, Tyron Lue was in the other locker room coaching the Clippers. And before the game even began, in his pregame press conference, he. He kind of drifted back to his Cleveland days, being asked about what it meant being back in the arena where he won a championship. And sure, he wanted to joke a little bit and said he didn’t want to think about it because he was more focused on simply being in the room with his players at this very moment. But the championship runs, the weight of those moments, the nostalgia that’s never too far away in this building was just too hard to let go of in the moment. And he talked about it briefly, and here’s that.
Speaker B: By the time my experience here was, you know, it was unbelievable just far as it started with LeBron, you know, as far as being the best player in the world, but just seeing how he worked every single day, you know, when you go through Sheeran, he’s full speed. When you go through plays and just trying to work on execution, he’s full speed getting everybody to do his full speed. And just. It was a breath of fresh air just knowing that, you know, you had the best credit in the world, but he understands, like, how important execution is. He understands how important it is bringing other guys along. And, you know, we just. And we had the same team for a long time. You know, it wasn’t a lot of turnover. So we were able to run, you know, that stuff for four or five years straight, you know, and then we can call a play from two years ago, you know, that, you know, our guys knew. And so just the preparation, you know, I think just the durability, you know, Kyrie and K Love and just how they had to sacrifice, but understanding it was to win whatever we had to do. And it was just, it was a beautiful time. You know, like I said, the fans were amazing, organization was great. You know, Daily Griffin and Trent Redden did it, you know, gave me my first opportunity. I thought, you know, Coach Black did a great job as well, you know, and so it was just, all in all, it was like, you know, my first coaching experience. But it was, it was really good.
Speaker A: And it wasn’t just Tyron Lue who got reminiscent on the past. Kenny Atkinson reflected on the early days of his coaching career dating back to when he was an assistant coach in Atlanta.
Speaker C: I was like, you know, a college coach, like, coaching every play and, you know, getting in the stance. And I’ve. I’ve graduated, you know, a little more of a pro coach now.
Speaker A: And arguably the biggest notion that I had coming into tonight’s game was that I was going to get to witness and the entire Rocket arena crowd and fan baseball was going to get to witness Chris Paul’s final game in Cleveland after his illustrious career. Obviously, that has not ended with a championship ring, but we know him to be a winner. And that’s kind of what Kenny Atkinson also talked about and what he means to the game of basketball. And elongating his career at the point guard position is something that cannot go unnoticed. And just being able to be around that was special to me and also some of the other people in the building. Here’s what Kenny Atkinson had to say about Chris Paul in his time in the NBA.
Speaker C: The longevity to play at the level he played out for so long at that position, you know, I guess Stockton’s in that. You know, who else is in that class? I don’t know. And again, to play it at elite, elite level is incredible. Being around him for a year, he’s. He’s a savant, a basketball savant. No one loves the game more than Chris Paul. I think you guys know he’s heavily involved in youth basketball and North Carolina across the country, really. So he pours his heart and soul into the young guys in this league. Every young guy in this league. You know, it seems like Chris Paul’s touch and he mentors a lot of guys not just guys on his team, but guys throughout the league, young guys throughout the league. Phenomenal, phenomenal human being, great player. It was cool to see the Cavs fans. You know, this is like a basketball city. They he gave him a heck of a ovation. It was great to see.
Speaker A: So yes, if you didn’t know, Chris Paul announced earlier this week or last week that he was going to officially retire at season’s end. So one more legend making his farewell lap, his farewell tour. But now I want to get into tonight’s contest in its entirety and everything surrounding it. So coming into tonight’s game, the Clippers were coming off and a back to back James Harden had just dropped A franchise record 55 points against the Charlotte Hornets and Avika Zubacz had eaten the Cavs alive with 20 rebounds in their previous matchup. And not to mention Kawhi Leonard was back after playing just six of their early games. And on paper those three were supposed to dominate the night. Even though coming off a back to back and even though the Clippers look like a team deep into the six game of a seven game road trip. Yes, you heard that right. Seven game road trip that ends on Monday in Los Angeles against the Lakers@Crypto.com Arena. But Cleveland didn’t stoop to their energy and I think that’s something that is extremely important when it comes to this Cavs team because we’ve seen it in the past, we’ve seen it in recent games where they have allowed themselves to be sucked into this mindset of what the other team was doing. But instead tonight they were more demonstrative rather than being reactive. They stayed committed to their game plan from the tip off, which was genuinely refreshing to watch and you have to give credit to the Cavs defensive scheme for that. They leaned into a blitz heavy look, the same one opponents have thrown at them all season long, especially early when Donna Mitchell had to carry more with With Darius Garland out, the Cavs defense sent waves at James Harden, throwing multiple bodies at him with Jaylon Tyson who got three early fouls because of how James Harden likes to play, and Dean Wade leading a lot of that pressure. Also, we know that Ivika Zubac was going to do what he had to do, but they had to find a way to be more of a collective when it comes to the rebounding aspect. He had as many second half field goal attempts, which were 11, as James Harden and Kawhi Leonard did combined, and Kawhi and James Harden converted just three of those attempts. They also only had three combined assists in the second half. So you got to see how the defensive scheme and the defensive structure that the Cavs were using against Kawhi and against James Harden was paying off in their benefit. This also goes to mention that the Cavs defensive structure is getting better with more players returning to their lineup and also just figuring out what works best for them. Whether that’s switch heavy defense, whether that’s blitzing a certain player, whether that’s funneling offensive creators into the painted area and forcing them to have to rethink their opportunities with Evan Mobley waiting for them in the paint, particularly without Jared Allen or simply going with a small ball look like we saw tonight with Dean Wade at the five at points and Naquan Tomlin out there as well and just being super, super active while still having players that can jump to the sky and keep up when it comes to their footwork. With that being said, five of the Cavs seven best defensive rated games have come over their last seven contests. The Cavs ranked seventh in defensive rating in the NBA over their last seven games and obviously that’s still not where the Cavs want to go, but it’s better than where they’ve been to start the season. So progress is the most important thing in this conversation. But let’s get to the Cavs offense and of course Donovan Mitchell was stellar once again and what stands out is how he continues to be more unforced in his scoring rather than what we’ve seen in the past when it’s felt more like it was hero ball or a one man show. These 30 point plus nights that keep coming without strain. That’s not necessarily because he’s back, but Darius Garland actually helps alleviate a lot of the stress that Donovan Mitchell has felt to the early portion of the season. And everything flows cleaner with Darius and Donovan on the floor together. It feels like a normal YMCA run to me where you keep feeding the hot hand until he cools off. And Donovan Mitchell once again react refused to cool off on his fifth triple of the night marking number 724. During Donovan Mitchell’s Cavs tenure he passed Kyrie Irving for the fifth most three pointers in Cavs history.
Speaker C: Like I said, I’ve been saying, is there anybody, any guard playing as well as him in the league? He’s just in a great place, great demeanor, he’s got great control of the game. He’s in the this kind of money spot in his career. He just kind of got control of everything and then great on the bench with you know, leadership wise is in a great, great place.
Speaker A: The part of Donovan Mitchell’s game that has impressed me the most and also concerns me a little bit when it comes to long term sustainability has been his rebounding. He grabbed eight boards tonight. He had nine against Indiana the other night, 15 against Miami. And he’s talked openly about wanting to use his body differently this season, picking his spots, not relying on explosive dunks as much as. And that same principle to me should apply to rebounding. He’s banging around with big bodies, fighting for position. And while the Cavs needed every single one of those rebounds against Zubosz and the Clippers, we’ll have to monitor how sustainable this version of him is across a full season, because I think his legs could feel that, even if he’s not exerting himself as much on the offensive end. But if you’re averaging 30 points, you are putting in a lot of work on that end of the floor as well. And we know that most teams are throwing their best defender at Donovan each night, and he’s having to break down them to get to his spots and find where he can make open looks. The trade off, though, is powerful because when Donovan rebounds, he can ignite transition immediately. So I do think that there’s this give and take when it comes to what is possible for the remounting aspect of Donovan and just how it helps the Cavs offense, because that means that no outlet pass is needed, right? That’s part of why he still kept his teammates involved while dropping 37 points tonight. He threw a couple highlight real laws to Evan Mobley, and I’m not going to lie, there was one where Evan Mobley kind of like reached up into the rafters, plucked the pass that probably had dreams of, of landing in the upper deck. And that’s the one that a lot of fans are going to remember. It didn’t necessarily end in a dunk, but it ended in a phenomenal play by Evan to keep the ball from going out of bounds. And it showcased just the trust that Donovan Mitchell was trying to instill in Evan and the aggressiveness to go and get that and try and make an attempt at the basket all in the same motion was incredible to me. It also came off a block from Evan Mobley, um, which was nasty as well. So the sequence in itself is memorable. But my favorite connection between the two of Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley came in transition, when Evan Mobley was sprinting the lane ahead of Donovan Mitchell and a smaller defender was on his hip trying to prevent him from getting to the basket. And Evan Mobley kind of gave him a subtle bump for just a hair of extra space and it opened a Runway to the rim and, and a perfect lob angle for Donovan. Like, it wasn’t necessarily the lob and the finish that caught my eye. It was the physicality of Evan Mobley even while running to keep his balance, to get the body of the defender away from him and allowing himself to create room to just have more space. And I think the aggressiveness, the intentionality of what he was doing is so important as we continue to look forward and try and see how Evan Mobley is going to be used in this offense. And, and again, having him alongside Donovan Mitchell, a rotation shift that we’ve talked about in the past on this podcast, is important for his empowerment and what Donovan Mitchell knows he can do. And also understanding that Donovan Mitchell probably is the best partner for Evan Mobley to see that success flourish. And we saw that last year during the 64 win season. But Kenny Atkinson has admitted that maybe they did too much force feeding, but they understand that they now have to change some things to make sure that they are getting Evan Mobley to be the most comfortable and confident heading into the playoffs. Because even if those first couple of stints are important to his growth, making him feel at his peak going into those series is going to be even more beneficial for them. But another play that stuck out to me was when Donovan found Dean Wade. He consistently found Dean Wade tonight, but it didn’t necessarily always go in favor of the Cleveland Cavaliers or Dean Wade. Dean Wade finished the game two of six from the field, one of five from three point land. And that just shows you that he was not having success from deep. But it did not matter to Dean Wade. He had missed a few and Donovan Mitchell still hit him in the corner. And, and when Dean knocked down his first three pointer of tonight, Donovan took this long strut back on defense, arm out, pointing at him like, I’m coming right back to you. Don’t lose confidence. And to me, that’s something that’s extremely important as a leader. That’s extremely important to Dean Wade because we’ve talked on this podcast before about how his confidence is extremely important to this team, especially when we talk about involvement on the defensive end and knowing that he has felt that he’s overcome this confidence barrier. And being told by Kenny and Donovan on countless occasions throughout the last couple of years just how important his shot is. And to see him still take five tonight, I think is a step in the right direction, and it’s a positive outlook. But more so than that, Donovan believing in his players and believing in his teammates that they’re going to be able to have success is something that we’re seeing at the overarching perspective of this team. And, and we’re going to get into more of that here in a minute. But while we’re on the topic of passing, I want to talk about DeAndre Hunter. He’s been consistently impactful, no matter who’s been on the floor for the Cavaliers, and we know that this Cavs team has been without a multitude of players throughout the start of the season, obviously, notably Darius Garland, Max Strus. Tonight was Craig Porter Jr. Lonzo Ball, Sam Merrow, Max Stru, and Jared Allen. But it hasn’t mattered for DeAndre Hunter because he’s filled in multiple different roles for this team and, and Kenny Atkinson has been able to utilize him in separate ways. Only two games this season has he scored under double digits, only 4 under 15. He set a career high in assists multiple times already with six. And he’s stacked up several four assist nights, including tonight against the Los Angeles Clippers. I asked him post game about the uptick in passing and he paused. You could see he wanted to get the words right. He didn’t want to out anybody. He didn’t want to be disrespectful. He kind of put his Donovan Mitchell hat on and was very presidential, very politically savvy with his answer. But sources close to the situation tell me, and I have had this conversation after the game, that in Atlanta, there was a growing belief that the offense was so dominated by others that that Hunter’s role defaulted to just score when you touch the ball because he didn’t know whether the ball was ever going to come back into his hands. And that’s kind of something that we noticed in the first season in Cleveland after acquiring him at the trade deadline, because it was more so based on his touches coming out of isolation when the Cavs offense bogged down. Kenny wasn’t really integrating him into the system as of yet. And we got to see that a little bit this offseason where we saw how Kenny Atkinson was prioritizing getting DeAndre Hunter involved. So now he’s on a team where he can trust the guys around him, trust their shot making, trust their reads, trust that if he swings the ball, the ball isn’t disappearing forever. And to me, that trust is unlocking his overall game when it comes to his shooting and effectiveness, which is consistently great. I mean, Tonight he finished with 17 points on 5 of 11 from the field, 4 of 7 from 3. He had four rebounds, four assists, one steal, and was a plus four on the floor for the Cleveland Cavaliers. But to me, it was basically him trying not to say that the Atlanta Hawks didn’t have what was necessary for him to feel comfortable, comfortable to give the ball away. And not only that they were going to be effective with the shot, but also that if they needed to make the right play, he was going to get the ball back. It was more so everybody could end up being a black hole on that roster. And now it doesn’t feel that way. And even though they had Trae Young at points, Trae Young can give the ball away and sometimes that ball never comes back. Or Trae Young can go and try and get his own bucket. And we know how that can end up for that team. This is the other caveat to this situation. Donovan Mitchell, who has now been on the Cleveland Cavaliers for some years now, has admitted that coming to Cleveland from Utah made him a better passer because of the talent around him and the structure of Kenny Atkinson’s system. I think DeAndre Hunter is reaching that same point in these conversations, and we’re watching his full potential get tapped into. It’s funny, though, because when you think of the attention that Darius Garland draws, or the entire core forwards of that matter, Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley, Donovan Mitchell, of course, it sometimes feels like DeAndre’s nights go overlooked because not everybody’s paying attention to what he’s doing or they’re just expecting that from him. At this point.
Speaker D: We’ve had like the Core 4. It’s been the, the. The label, right? When you have Andre come, it’s he is the most underrated player. He’s been the most consistent player all year. Like Garden, the best player, you know what I mean? May have KD having a tough night, right? Like continually being that God’s throw. It doesn’t get spoken about a lot. I know he doesn’t care, but I think he deserves more praise because he’s doing a hell of a job on both ends of the floor, right? Doing everything. And that’s what you. When you trade for a guy like that, it’s hard to get that halfway into the season. Right now you’re starting to see him be comfortable, figure out his role. Obviously he’s starting, but he’s been phenomenal.
Speaker A: But honestly, that’s how a good team should function. When the Cavs are healthy, to me, they become unpredictable because the trust runs from the top of their lineup, their core four, plus their starting five member now, DeAndre Hunter to the bottom. And we’re seeing that especially in tonight’s game without as many players. As I mentioned earlier in the show, Tyrese Proctor played 17 minutes, Naquan Tomlin played 22 minutes, Luke Travers played 15 minutes, Dean Wade played 23 minutes, and Jaylon Tyson played 23 minutes as well. So these rotation guys are getting more experience and getting more opportunities even with these players being out. But they’re showcasing why they should be on the floor and making decisions difficult for Kenny Atkinson about who is going to be available for them when the playoffs come around. And this is what kind of gets interesting because injuries force everyone this season into new roles, new lineups, new responsibilities, and in theory, everyone should now understand how to play with each other, where they like the ball, what they struggle with and how to cover for those weaknesses. Because yes, the Clippers were fatigued again. It was their six game of a seven game road trip that ends on Monday and they were on the second night of a back to back where James Harden dropped a franchise record 55 points. But Cleveland isn’t measuring themselves against who’s across from them right now. And that’s what we’ve been talking about this entire season. They’re learning schemes, principles, coverages and habits, things that travel into the postseason. Which is important because honestly, early in the season and into training camp, it felt like they were gearing up for an Indiana Pacers team that doesn’t exist anymore. That matchup is gone. And that’s what Donovan Mitchell and some of the players in the locker room have been saying about needing to let go of last year. And I think that was not only just for the media that keeps regurgitating this storyline about last season, but honestly the importance of internally in the organization letting go of that, that version of the Pacers is gone. And now the Cavs seem to be shifting their focus inward. And of course there are other teams that are going to play like the Pacers, but the Cavs are finding an identity they want to build. And again, I still don’t think that they’ve fully determined what their identity is, but they’re moving in the right direction for us.
Speaker D: This is, this is perfect. There’s so many learning lessons, there’s so many things that you have good games, you have bad games. Obviously you want to continue to trend the right way and I feel like we are, But I think 12 and 6 is right. We need to be continue to just progress like we’re getting healthy, we’re getting guys back, as I said, I mean.
Speaker A: That’S like six guys out.
Speaker D: But like we’re, we’re, we’re getting guys back and we’re seeing a lot from guys who will have moments, you know, for us.
Speaker A: And with a back to back in Toronto up next tomorrow on Monday, a team that’s already bested them twice in Cleveland, I think we’ll get to see a little bit more because traveling to the 6A wounded roster where Kenny Atkinson already hinted he doesn’t know who will be available on Monday, he doesn’t know if these players who were out tonight will be healthy enough to play on Monday, but to me the most logical sense is that they will continue to get this rest. And I expect Darius Garland and Lonzo Ball to swap places on the injury report, meaning that Darius Garland will be injury management for that toe in the second leg of back to back and Lonzo Ball will be available against the Toronto Raptors. But this is a playoff prep to me. The Toronto Raptors are currently second in the Eastern Conference and Cavs are third. So that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to match up in the playoffs, but I’m saying that this is a playoff caliber team. The postseason, as we know from the Cavs playoff history, always presents injuries and it always throws them curveballs. Because to me, every scenario that they’re going to go through now is just a rehearsal for the spring. It’s going to prepare them and give them opportunities to find out who they are, who they want to be, and exactly what system they can run against any given team. Because again, as I mentioned, it won’t necessarily be the exact Indiana Pacers team that we’ve been talking about or that we witnessed last year, but it will be a team that the Cavs have not seen in its entirety and you’re going to get to see how that Cavs team can adapt and utilize all of the lessons that it’s learned up to this point to be successful or give their best shot of getting out of the Eastern Conference because again, they are still seen as one of the favorites. But now you have the teams like Detroit, Toronto that weren’t necessarily on everybody’s billboard coming into the season that are giving other teams around the East a run for their money. So you don’t necessarily know what matchup the Cavs are going to get going into the playoffs, but you understand that they have to be prepared for any given scenario, any given situation, and that’s why it’s important for them to focus on themselves and and trying to learn what strategies work against any type of team, rather than the name that’s necessarily across the other team’s jersey. But I guess we’ll find out and that’ll come tomorrow. And we’ll be back with Chris in Toronto in the six to talk to you guys after that matchup. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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