CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor break down why the Cavs’ final 10 games before the New Year represent Cleveland’s first real adversity check.
Takeaways:
A Pivotal Six-Game Stretch
The Cleveland Cavaliers are entering a pivotal six-game stretch against sub-.500 opponents, which is being framed as a critical opportunity to change the narrative of their disappointing season. A successful run could elevate their record to a more respectable 20-11, building much-needed momentum, confidence and team camaraderie before they face tougher competition around Christmas. The hosts emphasize that this is the team’s chance to prove they can capitalize on a favorable schedule and consistently beat the teams they are expected to, something they have struggled with early in the season. This period is less about the quality of the opponent and more about the Cavs re-establishing their own standard of play.
‘Harsh Conversations’ and Accountability
Following a difficult early-season schedule, the Cavaliers used a five-day break for more than just rest, holding a series of “harsh” film sessions and “uncomfortable conversations.” In these meetings, head coach Kenny Atkinson reportedly called out his star players first to establish a new standard of accountability. This direct approach was a response to the team’s inconsistent effort and lack of focus, which had led to them being considered one of the most disappointing teams in the NBA. The effectiveness of this internal reckoning is now the central question, as the team must prove that these tough discussions will translate into tangible on-court improvements and a more consistent, focused identity.
Darius Garland’s Lingering Injury and Team Messaging
Darius Garland’s performance and health remain a significant concern as he continues to play through a difficult turf toe injury. This injury requires him to wear a splint, prevents him from playing in back-to-back games as part of a long-term management plan, and has left him unsatisfied with his efficiency. The situation has been compounded by inconsistent public messaging from the organization. Atkinson’s comments suggesting back-to-backs weren’t “off the table” directly contradicted the pre-established recovery plan later confirmed by Garland, creating unnecessary confusion and scrutiny around his health and availability.
Atkinson’s Evolving Approach
Head coach Kenny Atkinson’s leadership is at a critical point as he attempts to instill a new culture of accountability. Influenced by his time with successful coaches like Steve Kerr, Atkinson is signaling a shift toward a tougher stance, highlighted by the recent intense film sessions. The podcast speculates that this is a prelude to making more “difficult decisions” with the rotation, including potentially reducing playing time for underperforming players, regardless of their star status. This approach is a test not only for players like Evan Mobley, who are unaccustomed to such direct criticism, but also for Atkinson to show he will take the risks necessary to elevate the team’s performance.
An Immediate Test of Mindset
The upcoming game against the Washington Wizards is viewed as an immediate and crucial test of the Cavaliers’ renewed focus. The expectation is not merely a victory but a dominant performance that reflects a tangible change in mindset and intensity. The podcast hosts contend that if the team has truly absorbed the lessons from their recent tough conversations, the starters should build a large enough lead to sit out the entire fourth quarter. This game represents the first opportunity for the team to prove their commitment to a higher standard is more than just talk and that they can impose their will from the start, regardless of the opponent.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast and Chris is joining us from the great city of Washington, D.C. chris, the cows are coming off a five day break, a much needed rest after a hellish schedule to start the season. They are now facing off against one of the worst teams, if not the worst team in the NBA, in the Washington Wizards. This is a good jump off point for the Cleveland Cavaliers as they look to get back on the right page. They’ve had these harsh conversations, these harsh film sessions, these understandings with one another to try and get back on the same page. What are you looking for to see differently when it comes to how the Cavs come out in the game against the Washington Wizards on Friday night?
Chris Fedor: To me, Ethan, it’s just about can they capitalize on this opportunity? The next six games before they get to the Christmas Day showdown against New York are against below 500 teams. Many of the teams that the Cavs are more talented than, many of the teams that the Cavs should be favored. Many of the teams that the Gavs should, should be. Can they capitalize? Because all of a sudden we could be having a completely different conversation about this team in about two weeks. If they do what they’re supposed to do, if they do what they haven’t done at the beginning of this season, at the end of these six games, they could be 20 and 11. Think about the feeling around the team, then think about the conversation around the team. And if they do things the right way, if they focus, if they compete, if they have attention to detail, if they do all these different things that they’ve talked about over the last couple of days and they show that they can beat up on lesser opponents, that they can be the team that everybody expects them to be going into the New York game. Then all of a sudden there’s a different feeling. Then all of a sudden there’s a sense of, okay, now we are going like this. The Cavs have been talking about that all season long and they don’t want to be at their best in October and they weren’t. They didn’t want to be at their best in November and they certainly weren’t. They want to keep getting better as the season goes on and they have the opportunity to do that after all the things that they said, after all the things that they did behind the scenes, and with six incredibly favorable games coming out of this particular stretch, and it starts Friday night against Washington.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, you mentioned it There, that six game stretch is extremely important as they play against the Washington Wizards on Friday, then the Charlotte Hornets on Sunday. Both of those games were added because they were knocked out of the in season tournament by the Atlanta Hawks. But next Wednesday they play the Chicago Bulls. Friday again a game against the Chicago Bulls, a little bit of a road and home series there. Charlotte Hornets again on Monday and then the New Orleans Pelicans. So as you mentioned, Chris, these are all very favorable. But when it comes to how this team is going to be perceived after that stretch, I’m more so looking at how they fail to be complacent, fail to get back into this comfortable state. When we talk about how this Cavs team can get that way when they start to have a level of success, when they start to build a level of confidence. Because after these six games they have some tough opponents. When you look at the end of the month of December, the New York Knicks, as you mentioned, the Houston Rockets, the San Antonio spurs, who have shown difficult for the Cavs, and the Phoenix Suns who we know are coached by Jor. Not. I just think that there’s a possibility for the Cavs to come in and go, as you said, undefeated over these next six games. But then is there going to be a regression? Is there going to be some kind of fall off once again and one, how are the Cavs going to respond and two, how are the fans going to respond if that happens? Because we know the NBA season is not linear. And I’m curious for you what’s more important this six game stretch of how they get off from the five day break or the latter half of the month of December and, and, and where the Cavs end up when the new year hits.
Chris Fedor: Look, I think Ethan, anytime you’re talking about the Cavs, you’re not measuring them against the Wizards. You’re certainly not measuring them against the Pelicans or the Hornets or the Bulls. You want to see how they play against the upper echelon teams in the NBA. Can they get their competition ramped up? Can they do the things offensively and defensively that they want to do? Can their bench provide some kind of boost to, to help supplement what they get from the starting group? Can they defend at a high enough level? All these different things, you want to see that against the, the top teams. But this stretch is really, really important because they have to build to that and because after everything that they have said over the last couple of days, now they’ve got to put those words into action now. It can’t just be, you know, talk now. It can’t just be something that becomes a footnote in their season. There’s a real opportunity here for them, and I think everybody inside the organization would admit it. The Cavs have not played well enough. The Cavs have not played up to their standard. They are one of the most disappointing teams in the entire NBA through the first 25 games. It’s on them to change that. If they don’t like that perception, if they don’t like that characterization, they have to change it. And they start changing it right now during this six game stretch. And they build momentum, they build confidence, they build camaraderie, they build connectivity. All of that leading into those tougher games so that it feels like they’re going the right direction. There’s a better feeling around the team going into those matchups where we get a real gauge of who this team is and how far they’ve come over the last two weeks, how far they’ve come in the second portion of this schedule. You know, Kenny Atkinson said, Ethan, he wanted 25 games, he got 25 games. Now they’re past the 25 game mark. They’re going into the 30, then they’re going into the 35, then they’re going to the 40, close to the halfway point. And all of these different benchmarks throughout the course of the regular season, that’s how they have it kind of segmented. And the belief around the NBA, whether you talk to players, you talk to coaches, you talk to executives, this season starts on Christmas Day. That’s when players really start getting into it. And then you get into the dog days and you get close to All Star break. But the season starts on Christmas Day. And for the Cavs, that’s the measuring stick. New York’s a measuring stick type opponent, right? The Suns, if they’re full strength, if Devin Booker is back in the lineup, that’s more of a measuring stick than certainly Washington, Charlotte and Chicago. But it’s on them to capitalize on this opportunity this week and a half, these six games, so that they can build toward that. And they just have to show. They just have to show that they’re different. I don’t know if it’s definitely a number thing. I don’t know if it’s an outcome. I don’t know if it’s a point differential thing, but they have to show that they’re different because in the first 25 games, they just haven’t looked the part of a legitimate title contender. And look, there are circumstances Surrounding that, there’s no doubt about it. I think everybody would admit it. The schedule’s been grueling. The guys that have been missing that’s played a part in and out of the lineup. 13 different starting lineups, certain guys not able to play back to backs. There are uncontrollable things that have have been problematic for them that have led, have played a part at least in them being 14 and 11, played a part in them being one of the most disappointing teams in the NBA. But there are also things in their control that they just haven’t done well enough, not consistently anyway. And those are the things that they’ve got to show that, that they realize that they understand that they are going to fix and they have to show that they are correctable. That’s the other thing. You know, we’re having all these different conversations about the things that need to get better for this team. They’ve got to show that these just aren’t deep rooted flaws that are going to be fatal for them when you know they’re up against a team like the New York Knicks or they’re up against a team like the Phoenix Suns or as the schedule gets tougher and the opponents are different than Washington and Chicago and things along those lines.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, because the Washington Wizards aren’t going to pose that much of a threat to the Cleveland Cavaliers, I don’t want to go into a preview of this game as much, but I do think we have to do the due diligence of doing some injury updates. These are the players that are out for the Washington Wizards game for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Jared Allen, who was a partial participant for practice on Thursday in Cleveland. He did not take contact, which I think is definitely something to keep an eye on, especially after he was a full participant in practice on Tuesday. Sam Merrill is also out for the Cleveland Cavaliers. He began shooting with his right hand. It was a very short workout for him when it comes to getting just the feel and the touch of his hand that is still recovering from trying to deter Giannis Antetokounmpo from getting to the rim. Definitely something that is more difficult to recover from because of the structure of the hand, the importance of the hand. For Sam Merrill, it’s because it’s shooting hand. Larry Nance Jr. Is also out. He went through an individual workout after Cavs practice today. He was wearing a compression sleeve on his injured calf. Max Stru is also still out. We understand that he is on a similar timeline to what had originally been scheduled for him. Kenny Atkinson would not allude to if he was going to be quicker or slower. There had not been any setbacks, at least for Max Strus in this context. So then you look at the Washington Wizards injury report. Lalal Koulibaly, Corey Kiswerk, Khris Middleton and Alex Saar are all ruled out for Friday night’s game. I think. Obviously then you look at how this can be beneficial for a player like Evan Mobley and we continue to look at these matchups where it allows him to be aggressive, where it allows him to try and dictate the terms of the contest. When you talk about having the ball in his hands, whether he’s creating from the free throw line extended, whether he’s creating from the dunker spot, whether he is the offensive humor, I think there’s different opportunities for Evan Mobley and Kenny Atkinson to tink with what Evan Mobley’s goals are for this season. When you talk about games like tomorrow. But I think the biggest thing when it comes to this stretch, the last few games of the calendar year for the CAVS, there’s only one back to back before the year shifts from 2025 to 2026 and that is when the Cavs play against the Charlotte Hornets on December 22nd and then New Orleans Pelicans on December 23rd. And to me this is more so looking at what Darius Garland’s recovery has looked like. We got to talk to Darius Garland after practice today. He talked a little bit about just the fact that he’s still getting acclimated, right? He’s only played nine games into the season. Everybody was kind of catching their breath when it comes to this five day off stretch. He instead was still in the gym which was getting extra shots up. He hasn’t been satisfied with how his shot profile, shot quality and shot production and efficiency has been to start the season. And I think when you talk about a player and you’ve seen it with Joe Burrow, this could be a season long conversation about Darius Garland who is playing with a splint in his toe in his shoe while he’s playing the games and some points he’s playing with a spacer and as well to alleviate some of the pain in his toe. Chris, what do you think about just the level of curiosity that is still there when it comes to Darius Garland’s injury? What level of Darius Garland he’s trying to get to, especially when we talk about playoff caliber Darius Garland, but also him having to still work through things to feel like he can be his best self.
Chris Fedor: I think it’s just a difficult injury for him to play through. Um, and we’ve talked about this so many different times on the podcast, Ethan, that there is a difference between being healthy enough to play and suit up and being effective playing through injury. And this is a very difficult injury. Over the summer, the Cavs did a lot of research. They talked to a lot of different people. They studied turf toe, and they wanted to prepare themselves as best they could for all of the different obstacles that they were going to deal with. And they read about Joe Burrow, and they talked to people surrounding Joe Burrow, and they looked at the history of NFL players with turf toe and NBA players with turf toe, and if there were Major League Baseball players with turf toe, and they just tried to get as much information as possible. And I think the conclusion that they came to is that it was going to be an injury that was going to require constant management. It was going to be an injury that required them to. To do different things in terms of how much they were going to play Darius, in terms of how much they were going to rest Darius in terms of how much they were going to have Darius practice and things along those lines, just because it takes constant attention, and you’ve got to pay attention to it, and you’ve got to make sure that it doesn’t pop back up and start bothering him. But I think there are just certain movements that are going to be harder for him and more painful for him, especially as he continues to. To figure out what he can do and what he can’t do on this essentially rebuilt toe. And his game is so much about stop and start. It’s about quickness, it’s about shiftiness, it’s about change of direction. And there are certain movements that are probably going to be painful. And I think part of this also, Ethan, is Darius clearing a mental hurdle of, okay, I feel pain, but that doesn’t mean I need surgery. Okay, I feel pain, but that doesn’t mean that I need to shut it down for a week or two weeks. Okay, I’m not moving the way that I would prefer to be moving, but that doesn’t mean that this is a re injury of my toe. So I think it’s just an understanding from Darius that certain things are going to be there, and it’s going to require him to play through and learn how to play through that and learn how to deal with the. I don’t want to say a setback, but like, when you return from an injury and you’re still in the early stages and you’re missing back to backs and you’re trying to get comfortable and all those different things. There are going to be days where it just doesn’t feel as good, and then there are other days where it’s going to feel better than you expect. That’s the nature of recovering from an injury, especially a significant one like this, that is very, very tricky in terms of its recovery. But the Cavs need a different version of Darius than what they’ve gotten here at the beginning of the season. If they’re going to be the team that they want to be, if they’re going to be the offense that they want to be, if they’re going to be as prolific on the offensive end of the floor as what they were at various points last year, as what they were at various points throughout the this early stretch of the season when Darius has been in the lineup. Like, a different level of consistency from Darius is going to be required in many cases to be a consistently prolific offense. Because if you don’t have him doing the things that make him special and you don’t have Evan being the guy that everybody expected him to be coming into this year, taking that next step, taking a leap into a different stratosphere, then you just don’t have enough offensive weaponry. Not consistently, anyway. So it’ll be interesting to see just, just how Darius manages these six games coming off this lengthy break. You know, part of this was, yes, film session, honest conversations, a deep dive into the things that have not gone according to plan in the first 25 games. But it was also an opportunity to rest. It was also an opportunity to recover mentally and physically. And it’ll be interesting to see what version of Darius the Cavs get here as this season continues to progress. The other thing is they’ve got to get their messaging clear because once again, people have not been on the same page. I reported a long time ago that when Darius came back that he wasn’t going to be able to play back to backs and that there was a plan to not have him play back to backs. And that was established in the summertime. And that was Darius, that was the coaching staff, that was the front office, and that was the medical staff all coming together and saying this is what’s going to be best for Darius, especially early in his recovery. And Kenny Atkinson, very shortly after Darius made his debut, said that, hey, we haven’t taken back to backs off the table. Well, yeah, they did. And now Darius earlier today, following practice, said, hey, this was a plan that was mapped out in the summer that this is how we were going to do it, with no back to backs, with keeping my workload down, keeping my minutes down, not pushing it too too much. So they’ve gotta again work on the messaging of this thing. Because you had Kenny Atkinson say one thing immediately after Darius returned. And you had Darius again saying something different today, reflecting back to what was the plan in the summertime. And then when Darius doesn’t play back to backs because Kenny Atkinson said, hey, those aren’t off the table, people get a little bit alarmed by it. People are like, what happened? Did he have a setback? Did he re injure himself? Da da da da da. And yes, there was a re injury in there against Miami. But the messaging has to be a little bit more clear when it comes to all of these different injuries so that it doesn’t open themselves up to criticism or further questioning of of how they’re going about these things.
Ethan Sands: Darius Garland also mentioned that it was a doctor decision. He would love to be out there playing back to back, but he’s also trying to do the mature things that we’ve talked about with this group, trying to do what is best for him, but also for the team in the long run. And I thought it was funny that you mentioned that the Cavs need to get on the same page, because when we talked to him about the film session, the immediate question after the mental challenges, the frustration of not being able to play in back to backs, and he said that we all got to get on the same page when it comes to just being on the floor together. And I think that’s not only teammates and players on the floor, but it’s also the coaching staff and figuring out what this Cavs team’s identity wants to be, where they want to be at and how they want to evaluate every given situation. Because as we all know, sometimes a player will say something to us and then we’ll relay it to Kenny Atkinson and he’ll be like, oh, well, I don’t know if I agree with that, but I agree with it in some parts, like when Jaylon Tyson called out the team, we asked Kenny Atkinson. He kind of was taken aback by the fact that Jaylon Tyson was the one to say something, but we all were right. That’s kind of the situation that was at hand. But when we talk about this film session, when we talk about holding each other accountable when it comes to getting on the same page, Darius Garland also mentioned that Kenny Atkinson called out the quote, unquote, best players and went down the roster from there. That’s kind of what we talked about. The uncomfortable conversations with this team, the harsh realities of this organization in the roster and all of these different things. But Kenny Atkinson also mentioned today that the great players want to be coached hard. And Chris, we’ve seen it around the league, right Will Hardy of the Utah Jazz hauling out his players mid game. Billy Donovan has taken to the press room on multiple occasions to call out the Chicago Bulls and excuses that they’ve been trying to make or the lackluster performances that they’ve had. They have not held back on their different conversations with their teams either internally or to the public. And I’m curious because you mentioned how Kenny Atkinson and the organization has been walking this fine line with conversations with the media and what we’ve been hearing behind the scenes. How do you view how this Cavs team is utilizing its words and its power and its platform? Because it feels like there’s so many different ways for teams to do it. And Kenny Atkinson, of course we heard it from Steve Kerr is trying to walk this balance of I’m New York, I’m hard headed. I had these issues when I was first coaching that might have been the reason I got booted from Brooklyn to I’m got all of this lesson learned from when I was in California with the Los Angeles Clippers and in San Francisco when I was with the Golden State Warriors. I’m a little bit calmer now, but maybe I need to bring the New York back a little bit so these players understand the urgency that is necessary for this season.
Chris Fedor: I think this goes all the way back to the very beginning of the season. I just, I don’t know that there was in everybody on board with how to approach the regular season. I, I think they were stuck in between. Yes, the regular season matters. Yes, we have to build habits. Yes, we have to do the right things. But the regular season doesn’t matter. So I, I think they have struggled with that from the very, very beginning in saying that. I, I think this is kind of where Kenny being around Steve Kerr and Ty Lue has, has really helped him. And I think it goes back to when Kenny first got the job when he was hired by the Cavs to be the coach that was taking over for J.B. bickerstaff. What’s the first thing that he did? He reached out to the star players. He tried to foster that relationship with Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland and obviously reconnect with Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. He went out to visit those guys. He had sit downs with them. He talked through the roster, he talked through basketball, he talked through, through non basketball things. And I think his time in Golden State, around Steph and Draymond and different personalities and different star players really, really helped him. And I think his time around Steve Kerr helped him in Ty Lue too. Because the one thing that, that Steve Kerr has become known for is just not given a crap like he will make decisions, sometimes unpopular ones, sometimes decisions that don’t work out, but he will make the decisions, the difficult ones that he thinks are going to be best. He in the game against the Cavs, he started Jonathan Kaminga and they pulled him and then the next game he was out of the rotation. Jonathan Kaminga is supposed to be part of the future of the Golden State Warriors. Jonathan Kaminga is somebody that they have invested in in a big way, but he’s gone away from him. That’s a difficult decision. That’s a delicate decision. So it’s not the first time that Steve has done something like that. And I think Kenny, one of the things that he said the other night when Golden State was in town and he was talking about all the different things that he learned being around Steve and being around those different kinds of players, he said, you know, to win championships, you have to take risks. And I’ll say this, Ethan, I don’t think that Kenny, when it comes to his lineups, when it comes to his combinations, when it comes to, you know, some of these what could be perceived as difficult coaching decisions, I don’t think he’s made them yet with the Caps. But when this team gets closer to full strength, if it ever happens, that’s when all those difficult decisions start to come because there’s only so many minutes available. And it’s going to be very, very interesting to me to see how he’s going to handle that, to see how the guys are going to be accepting of that. And I think for him to use this week to kind of put his foot down to call these guys out and to set a foundation for accountability and to remind them of what that standard is, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it came on the heels of playing against the warriors and Steve Kerr being in town. And I certainly don’t think it’s a coincidence that it is coming at a time where the Cavs are getting closer and closer, at least they hope, to being at full strength and having some of these difficult decisions. So I think he wanted that foundation of accountability. I think he wanted more of a no nonsense approach. I think he wanted a reminder of, hey, these are the things that you must do. And if you don’t do them, I’m going to call you out. In film sessions doesn’t matter if you’re Donovan Mitchell, doesn’t matter if you’re Evan Mobley, doesn’t matter if you’re Jared Allen, the name doesn’t matter. The. The contract doesn’t matter. And the next step for Kenny, if it gets to this point, if things don’t turn around, if they don’t play with the consistent competitiveness and the consistent effort and the consistent focus and the consistent attention to detail and all these different things, the next step after that, if it doesn’t get corrected, is take away playing time. And I think this week kind of set that standard and set a reminder to these guys that your playing time could be determined by what happens When I watch the film back and see who’s bringing it to a different kind of level. And I do think it’s interesting. One of the things that I’m going to be looking at, Ethan, is, okay, how does Evan Mobley respond? Evan Mobley is not used to getting called out. He’s not. He’s been a star since he was in high school. He was the number three overall pick, right? He was one of the best players at USC in the conference when he was a freshman. And then he was runner up for rookie of the year. And then he was plastered all over these billboards in downtown Cleveland because he became like the face of the franchise. And there were members of the organization nicknaming him HOF for future hall of Famer. And then he became a first time altar and defensive player of the year and second team all NBA. This is probably one of the few times in Evan’s professional basketball career, or just basketball career in general, where, you know, he is being criticized a little bit more, where some of his bad moments are being shown in film sessions. And like DeAndre Hunter said, like the other guys said throughout the course of this week, you know, those were hard film sessions. Those were uncomfortable film sessions. It’s difficult to see all of the bad things that you do throughout the course of a game or throughout the course of a week get pulled and highlighted or in this case, lowlighted in front of your teammates, in front of your coaches, in front of the people that matter the most. And how these guys react to that I think is going to be really, really important. And if, if Kenny goes down the road of taking a guy out of a rotation for a couple of games, Benching a guy in an entire second half, somebody other than Luke Travers. How are these guys going to handle it? These are all things that I think are going to be fascinating to watch, especially because it comes on the heels of, of this film session, which could emphasis on could end up being a turning point for this team if they do things the right way moving forward.
Ethan Sands: This kind of makes Donovan Mitchell look like a prophet because he keeps talking about like, how are we going to respond? He’s been preaching that since last year in like April, before the playoffs when they were struggling. How do you respond? How do you keep coming back? How do you not let it snowball all of these things? And then he used the term then that he’s been using now. I would rather this be happening now than when it’s in the playoffs or yada, yada, yada. And obviously this is different because it’s December. It’s not March or April, it’s December. And the Cavs have the opportunity to have these conversations and you know that they’re working because when you talk to these players after practice or after shoot around since the film sessions, if you ask the player what was talked about, they’ll be like, oh, these are the areas that we tried to focus on. And it’s funny because these things that they are talking about. DeAndre Hunter was talking about getting caught ball watching, right? That’s something we’ve talked about when it comes to DeAndre Hunter. Darius Garland just talked about playing harder, playing through injury, playing through contact. That’s something that he personally has had to do. So these guys have kind of unintentionally given us a window into the conversation that they’ve had personally internally about what areas they want to improve coming out of this break. And obviously Donovan, we haven’t gotten to speak with him after the harsh conversations in the harsh film sessions and the player led meetings just yet. But I can basically think of what he would say because of how many times he said the same things. And it’s not out of regurgitating the same lines. It’s how he truly feels about this group and how he looks at this team and the capabilities and the talent on the roster and what that looks like going into a playoff series. But he understands. And again, here comes that buzzword. Mental toughness is still the area that this team needs to overcome. And he has had this plastered everywhere for his own brand. Don Determination over negativity. How do you respond to when things are going bad? How do you respond when you have players injured? How do you respond where you don’t have a good game, but you still need to make an impact on the floor? These are different areas where I think he’s been trying to derive and pull it out of his teammates. And it feels like these are the types of conversations that are going to allow that to fully come to fruition, especially when you have these in depth, harsh, sometimes even cruel conversations. And Evan Mobley might be at the forefront of that. So I agree with you there, Chris.
Chris Fedor: I mean, the reason why these things continue to come up, Ethan, is because they simply have not answered these questions. They linger. Donovan Mitchell is wondering about them. Right?
Ethan Sands: Right.
Chris Fedor: Just like we are. Everybody that watches the Cavs is wondering the same thing. So what do you think the players inside are thinking? What do you think Donovan Mitchell’s thinking? It doesn’t mean that they can’t prove everybody wrong. It doesn’t mean that they can’t change the reputation. It doesn’t mean that they can’t go on this run similar to what the Indiana Pacers did. I mean, Indiana last year was 10 and 15 at the same point. They didn’t get back over the.500 mark until early January. So it wasn’t all just roses and sunshine for the Pacers. They had real stuff that they had to go through. Some of those things outside their control, just like the Caps outside their control. But going through those struggles, going through those tests early in the season, it allowed them to come together in a different way. It made them stronger, it made them tougher, it galvanized them. I think there are legitimate questions about what it’s going to do to Cavs. So we just have to let it play out. We have to wait and see. But until they prove it to a different level, with a different level of consistency, these questions are going to linger. That’s the thing. Everybody inside that locker room knows it. Everybody on the coaching staff knows it. This team still has a lot to prove.
Ethan Sands: They will have the opportunity to respond to adversity, as Donovan Mitchell would put it, by playing against six teams before their last four of the month, where you understand that they cannot play down to their opponent. Right. And I wrote an article about this when they played the Washington Wizards for the first time at Capital One Arena. The line score for tomorrow’s game is negative 14.5 in favor of the Cavs. That probably is the highest it can go for true betting odds based on how the Cavs have played this season. But that should feel light to the Cavs. They should try and drop 30 on.
Chris Fedor: The Washington Wizards, Evan Mobley and Darius Garland should not see the floor in the fourth quarter. They should do what OKC did the other night to the Phoenix Suns. They should do what the Denver Nuggets did tonight to the Sacramento Kings, where in Sacramento, they started chanting, sell the team. Sell the team. Jokic had 36, 12 and eight through three quarters, didn’t have to play in the fourth quarter. Shay Gills Alexander has played maybe half the fourth quarters for the Thunder. Like, if the Cavs are the team that they say they are, if the Cavs are the team that they believe they are when they play against a wounded Washington team, on the heels of everything that they have talked about over the last couple of days, their first opportunity to get back on the floor after this film session. Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, Darius Garland, the mainstays on this team, should not see the floor in the fourth quarter. They should not have to be on the floor. Where you’re wondering, is, is the margin wide enough or is the game already locked up? Like, this thing should be over quickly.
Ethan Sands: That’s the mindset of the team, right? Compete, level, intensity. This is the first test for the Cavs, right? We’re not talking about, are they more talented than the next six games. We know that they’re more talented than teams over the next six games. But you cannot one play down to your opponent. You cannot allow teams like the New Orleans Pelicans and Derrick Queen to dictate contests and allow them to do things that they want and are successful at. You have to be assertive in your goals. You cannot be reactive to some of these teams. And I think the Cavs understand that. And as you mentioned, Chris, even in that game between the OKC Thunder and the Phoenix Suns, Shane Gilder scored 28, which is low for him, but he was still. He was still the leading scorer. That shows you that everybody on the roster, not just Evan Mobley, not just Darius Garland, not just Donovan Mitchell, need to show up, need to have the same mindset. And as Darius Garland said, they all need to be on the same page. They all need to have the same mindset. They all need to have that same energy and intensity. It cannot just come from the bench unit when they sub in seven minutes into the game. The starters have to come with that energy to begin the contest. But we’ll get to see and find out if the Cavs are capable of doing so and actually put words to actions, or if this conversation that we’ve been having is just lip service. But I think against the Washington Wizards. The Cavs, if they don’t come out with the same level of energy, might get off on the right foot. But that’s not the point. This is how the Cavs respond. This is how the Cavs come into contest and showcase who they want to be, no matter the opponent. And with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com/cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’ all be safe. We.