CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins react to the Cavaliers’ 117-115 comeback win over the Philadelphia 76ers, framing it as a gritty comeback victory powered by Cleveland’s supporting cast.
Takeaways:
Jaylon Tyson’s Career Night Signals Star Potential
Jaylon Tyson delivered a career-defining performance, leading the Cavaliers with 39 points on highly efficient 13-of-17 shooting. The hosts emphasized that his most crucial play was not a basket, but the game-winning assist to Evan Mobley on a broken play, showcasing incredible poise and court vision for a second-year player. The discussion framed this performance not as a fluke, but as a legitimate signal of Tyson’s high ceiling. Having already become the team’s second-best offensive player this season, his development is seen as a massive win for the organization, validating their decision to not include him in trade talks.
Donovan Mitchell Showcases Maturation with Second-Half Adjustment
Despite the win, Donovan Mitchell struggled in the first half, committing five of his six total turnovers while trying to force the action against a swarming 76ers defense that was intent on taking him out of the game. However, the hosts highlighted his second-half adjustment as a key sign of his maturation as a superstar. Mitchell shifted his approach, trusting his supporting cast and allowing the offense to flow through others, finishing with a game-high 12 assists. Instead of forcing his own offense, he made the correct reads and empowered teammates like Jaylon Tyson and Craig Porter Jr. This ability to adapt his game from scorer to primary facilitator when necessary was identified as a critical development in his leadership.
A “Gritty” Win Fueled by the Supporting Cast
The victory was characterized as a “gritty culture win,” as the Cavaliers fought back from an 11-point fourth-quarter deficit without star guard Darius Garland and sharpshooter Sam Merrill. The hosts praised the team for playing hard for the entire game rather than trying to “flip a switch.” A major factor in the comeback was the performance of the supporting cast. Craig Porter Jr., starting in place of Garland, tied his career-high with 11 assists while committing only one turnover, demonstrating poise and control. Off the bench, De’Andre Hunter was decisive in attacking closeouts, while Nae’Qwan Tomlin provided relentless energy and physicality. This collective effort from role players proved essential for securing a tough road win and reinforcing a positive team culture.
Concerns Linger Over Evan Mobley’s Offensive Inconsistency
In contrast to the praise for others, the guys expressed continued frustration with Evan Mobley’s offensive performance. He was criticized for slipping back into passivity, being indecisive, committing four turnovers, and playing “weak around the rim.” While acknowledging his defense is back to an elite, Defensive Player of the Year level, his offensive inconsistency is seen as a major roadblock for the team. The hosts argued that Mobley is playing more like a “supportive character” than a true star, which puts an unsustainable burden on the team’s smaller guards. For the Cavaliers to reach their championship potential, Mobley must become a more assertive and reliable offensive hub, a step in his development that is still seemingly missing.
Front Office Lauded for Building Depth on the Margins
The game was presented as a victory for the Cavaliers’ front office and their ability to build a deep, competitive roster with limited resources. The hosts gave a “round of applause” for their recent moves, particularly finding key contributors outside of the lottery. Jaylon Tyson (20th pick), Craig Porter Jr. (undrafted), Sam Merrill (last pick of his draft), and Nae’Qwan Tomlin have all become impactful rotation players. This acumen for identifying and developing talent on the margins is considered a critical strength, especially as the team operates in the financially restrictive second apron world of the modern NBA. These successful, low-cost acquisitions are vital for supplementing the team’s core and sustaining success.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com columnist. And we’re here with you guys after the Cavs latest win. 117-115 over the Philadelphia 76ers. And the Cavs have now put together a little bit of a winning streak, Jimmy. And this is one of those games that kind of justifies having to close a game late, coming back from down, making mistakes, playing with effort, playing from behind for most of the contest, and then pushing the throttle even higher in the fourth quarter to make the comeback complete. It wasn’t the Cavs playing without energy and intensity and then turning it on or trying to flip a switch. It wasn’t them leading for a majority of the game and then letting the opposition back in. This was them playing hard for the whole game and getting rewarded for it. Jimmy, what did you take away from tonight’s contest? There was a lot of different things going on, but I’m here for your instant reaction.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s a gritty win. It’s the kind of win that we’ve kind of been looking for from this team. Right. Like you don’t have Darius. The Sixers are throwing everything at Donovan. They effectively took him out of the game. I know he still had 12 assists. You’re never going to fully take Donovan out of the game, but they did a very good job limiting him, limiting his scoring opportunities and making it difficult for him to get a rhythm. You trail by 11 in the fourth quarter. You trail by, it seems like six or seven most of the game, and you just, you just fight back, you scratch you out, rebound. The Sixers, your offense wasn’t humming one of those find away games, and it’s one of the uglier wins of the cap season. It’s also, it’s one of the more encouraging wins for me. Right. Like, I’m sure we’ll get to Jaylon Tyson in more depth. Going to like, thank goodness for Jaylon Tyson. He was incredible tonight. He’s been. I’m, I’m having pretty irresponsible thoughts about Jaylon Tyson. Ceiling right now after watching that game. He was just excellent tonight. De’Andre Hunter was better. Get a little bit of a dash of Craig Porter Jr. Here and there. It’s a good culture win. It’s a good culture win for a Cavs culture that we’ve had a lot of questions about in recent weeks.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. So let’s start from the very beginning here, Jimmy. I think it’s important that we be honest with ourselves and with our fans and with the listeners of the podcast. This is a win when the team had 18 turnovers and that’s somewhat of a miracle in any capacity when it comes to an NBA team pulling off a win when they’ve made that many mistakes. And turnovers were an issue throughout as it seemed like Donovan Mitchell was pressing in the first half to create and was making ill advised decisions because of it. There were some lob passes that he had that were just absolutely atrocious, but then he slowed down in the second half and it paid dividends, allowing the game to flow, relying on the supporting cast around him as Jimmy mentioned, and then not only rely on them to score the basketball but also make the right decisions to get people the ball in open windows. Donovan had five turnovers in the first half alone and finished the game with just six, only one. And in the final two quarters, along with a game high 12 assists as Jimmy was mentioning. And when it comes to Craig Porter Jr. And I want to start this off with a little bit of stats so you have an understanding of how good this backcourt without Darius Garland looked in tonight’s contest, Donagan Mitchell and Craig Porter Jr. Became the first Cavs teammates to tally 11 or more assists a piece of in nearly nine years. The last time the Cavs had multiple players with 11 or more assists was February 1, 2017. LeBron James and Kyrie Irving who had 12 and 14 respectively. And I want to get into this a little bit more, especially when we talk about the backcourt and obviously the sprinkles of Craig Porter Jr. As Jimmy was mentioning. But what were you looking at when it came to Donovan Mitchell’s productivity tonight, how he was able to manage the offense, especially in the second half and then just the trust that you were seeing kind of flowing a little bit differently when it came to how he was operating in those final two quarters.
Jimmy Watkins: I really like how he adjusted over the course of the game. I think he had. He finished with six turnovers and five of them were in the first half. Right. That speaks to the way he was managing the swarm of bodies that they were thrown at him. I mean this speaks to the importance of Darius Garland. Every time Darius Garland sits, opposing teams treat Donovan Mitchell like he’s prime. James Harden. They throw two bodies at him everywhere he goes. The Sixers were throwing sometimes three bodies at him in certain situations tonight just because they don’t trust the Caps supporting cast around him, they’re much more scared of Donovan Mitchell making a play than they are anyone else making a play off of a play that Donovan made. Right. So I think he adjusted to that. He came out maybe trying to force it a little bit because he always dons the Superman cape when Darius is out, he feels like he has to do a little bit more. That’s understandable. But he adjusted over time and he recognized that he had, you know, he had Jaylen Tyson having the game of his life and Craig Porter Jr. Was making stuff happen on the ball as well. And another nice bounce back game from De’Andre Hunter tonight, which was nice to see. So he sort of backed off and said, I got to take what the game is going to give me and if the Sixers are going to keep throwing bodies at me, I just need to keep making the right play. And, and it paid off eventually. That’s, that’s mature. That’s, that’s a mature thing for a superstar to do. There’s a lot of guy, and Donovan has done this in the past where I don’t care how many bodies you’re throwing at me, if you, if you’re going to trap me around picking rolls, I’m going to go ISO. If you’re going to block off the paint, I’m going to force a jump shot. He was better about that stuff tonight. That’s another sign of maturation in his game.
Ethan Sands: In saying all that, we can all admit the Cavs do not win this game without Jaylon Tyson. Career night, 39 points and the play that ultimately decided the game was not even a made basket from him. It was game wing assist on a busted ato where the read was everything. I mean, he attacks the closeout from the left corner, draws two defenders, contorts his body midair and drops it off to Evan Mobley for the finish. That is the feel of the game that we’ve been talking about. That’s the poise, the processing speed of a player in just his second year in the NBA. That is understanding how to punish defensive indecision, especially when they’re scrambling at the end of a game and knowing that they have to make a play. I think Jaylon Tyson is, is starting to see the game at a level and as Jimmy said earlier, that may have fans thinking a little bit too highly about his ceiling for this season, for his career, because he’s continued to be the second best offensive player on the floor for the Cleveland Cavaliers for a majority of the season. Coming off the bench being a reliable plug and play player. In the starting lineup. We talked about the starting unit in yesterday’s podcast and we were sure that Jaylon Tyson was getting a start as he should. And he made Kenny Atkinson look like a genius on the last play, even though it didn’t look like the ball went where it was supposed to. Jimmy, when it comes to Jaylon Tyson, I’m gonna let you get your takeoff. Where are you seeing his ceiling at for his career and what did you take away from his end of game performance, especially in the crunch time, but also just overall carrying the scoring load in a particular game where it was until the last couple of minutes or the last quarter itself, where other people were getting back into their own rhythms.
Jimmy Watkins: This is basically Jaylon Tyson’s red shirt rookie season, right? Like last year they have him, I think they have a markdown for like 47 last year. But within however many games they say that he has played, that’s not real, not real number. He was doing a lot of mop up duty last year. They were blowing teams out all the time. He was playing hard with the, during the minutes that he, that he got trying to maximize his opportunities, but they were not real game situations. Right. So I’m calling this 39 points from a rookie. And when you go into basketball reference and ask how many Rookies have scored 39 points in a game before since 2000, you only get 23 names and 12 of them have been All Stars. So there’s obviously 11 other names on that list. But I just saying for this to happen at all, for Jaylon Tyson to have this in him at all is a, at least, at least a, a blink on a potential all star potential path down the road. Okay. These scoring outbursts do not come from nowhere. The three point shot has come along much faster than I think any of us anticipated. I know I’m always a little skeptical about guys who, who shoot at okay on, on okay. Volume. Coming out of college, he’s at four threes a game, 45%. He’s like knocked down already. He knows how to get to the rim. I, I think ironically one of the places where his game probably you would say coming in tonight needed to evolve the most is reading the game. And even tonight he had one assist for every turnover. That’s going to be growing pains for him and we’re, we’re a ways away from the Cavs asking him to make ton of real decisions in high leverage moments. Although again tonight, ironically he made the play of the game. But I just want to underscore that first people who score 39 points show these signs this early in their career. Oftentimes, it’s not a fluke. Oftentimes it’s a sign of really, really, really good things to come. The second part of it is the play that won the game, which is on so many levels, so impressive from a poised perspective, because one, Jaylon Tyson said after the game that it was a play designed for their two best players, Don and Evan, so that he didn’t expect to get the ball. Then they’re having trouble, trouble getting the ball in. He gets the ball. Two things happen with a lot of people in Jaylon Tyson’s shoes, with his experience when they get the ball in that situation. One, they panic and try too hard to get the ball back to where it’s supposed to start the play right, the way that this play was originally designed. And you lose clock and sometimes commit a turnover in that situation because the reason you got the ball is because whoever was supposed to get the ball isn’t open. Right. The second thing that happens, Legler pointed this out on the broadcast, and it’s such a good point, is that a player in Jaylon Tyson shoes goes towards the rim in that situation. The shot is going up regardless of how many bodies are in front of him. Because, one, you’re not sure how much time you have, especially when you’re driving from the corner, you don’t have a great look at the clock, so you might just think you have to throw it up. And two, your adrenaline’s going and you’re thinking, oh, my God, I have. Like, this is the moment I’ve been dreaming for. Last shot, clock’s ticking down. I got the ball in my hands. We need to tie the game. I could do this and all. When all that’s going on, sometimes your court vision is a little wonky. And, oh, by the way, one of the people that’s coming at you is 7 foot 2 Joel Embiid. He’s not easy to see behind, but Jaylon Tyson makes a really smart, calm wraparound pass to Evan Mobley for an easy bucket to give the Cavs the lead and win the game that way. Like, that is maturity that you don’t often see from players as young as you don’t say, I know he came in at least 23 years old. He came into the league older than a lot of rookies do. But from start to finish, and then. And then we haven’t even mentioned the fact that he’s spending a lot of time on Tyrese Maxey. Jaylon Tyson as the Cavs alpha defender says more about the rest of the Cavs roster than it does about Jaylon Tyson. But hey man, he’s up for the challenge sometimes. Sometimes Max, sometimes Maxi was getting him, sometimes Jaylon was getting knocked off balance and having to chase the play from behind. But he’s not. He never gives up, he never gets discouraged. I mean, he just brings the energy that you’re looking for in that kind of player. Even if I don’t necessarily think that Jaylon Tyson long term is going to be an all defense kind of guy, but he’s going to be, I think with time, a really good team defender because he clearly cares so much about it, which is half the battle. And he’s going to get smarter and he’s going to understand scouting reports better as he gets older. So I mean, I think with the shooting that you’ve seen so far this year, the potential for there to be more on the ball, right. We saw some of that tonight and the defensive want to. At the very least, the Cavs might have found themselves a legitimate rotational, if not starting level 3 and D wing some room on the back end of that. And with the 20th pick, particularly with the specific pick, the Jaylon Tyson pick was the last pick that the Cavs had control over for a long time because of the Donovan Mitchell trade. There was a lot of pressure on that pick. They needed to nail that pick and they’ve needed to nail a lot of these other margin type moves, by the way, that they’ve nailed like your Sam Merrills, like your Craig Porter juniors, like your Nae’Qwan Tomlins, by the way. Nae’Qwan Tomlin. Does anyone dunk a basketball more violently than Nae’Qwan Tomlin? My goodness, he is fun. But these moves around the margins are so important for a team in the Cavs position when your roster is basically set and they have nailed a lot of them. Jaylon Tyson, the most shining example.
Ethan Sands: I agree and I think that was really well said, Jimmy, because when you talk about a guy that came into the NBA, obviously 20th overall pick in the 2024 NBA Draft and says that he is going to fight his way into the rotation his rookie year, doesn’t see it happen, doesn’t get discouraged, comes back and now is a legitimate contender to be a starting small forward until Max Struth gets back, I think that is telling of the player that he is, the work ethic he’s willing to put in on all accounts what this Cavs team has needed mentality wise, maturity wise, intensity wise, and then also being able to produce, not on the biggest stages yet, but in moments that are necessary, I think is good. Here’s just some stats from today specifically, and then also what it looks like for his season. Jaylon Tyson is the eighth youngest Cavalier to score 39 or more points in a game. Obviously ahead of him, LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Colin Sexton, Darius Garland, Brad Dougherty, Ron Harper and Cliff Robinson. Also from tonight’s game, Jaylon Tyson scored 39 points on 13 of 17 from the field, becoming the first Cav to score that amount on 17 or fewer field goal attempts since Kevin Love on February 6, 2017. So just the effectiveness, the list of players that I mentioned, he’s in great company and on the horizon for a great NBA career. When you look at his stats from this season alone, he has the second highest field goal percentage on the Cleveland Cavaliers, second to only Jared Allen. And we know Jared Allen isn’t taking that many more difficult attempts. So Jaylon Tyson being there 52.4% and Jared Allen having 59.7% should tell you his decision making and his shot making has been to an elite level. If it doesn’t, he’s shooting 47.5% from 3. 3 on 4.3 attempts over 38 contests this season. So let’s move on to the next group of players because we talked a lot about the supporting cast coming into tonight’s game and Jimmy and I called it on yesterday’s podcast. Craig Porter Jr. Entering the starting lineup made too much sense. The added ball handling, the downhill pressure, the ability to touch the paint and the bend the defense in different ways. We talked about it earlier. He ties a career high with 11 assists, five in the first half, six in the second. Yes, turnovers were an issue for the team overall, But Craig Porter Jr. Was not the culprit. One turnover for the entire game, zero in the second half. That is the control, the maturity, the decision making that we’ve been talking about and the ability to run an offense without hijacking it. Especially without Darius Garland or Sam Merrill to turn to and Lonzo Ball being on the bench and limited in minutes. I think his play was necessary. Did he score the basketball a whole lot? No, he had two points. He was one of five from the field. But his passing, his acumen, his IQ and his ability to have poise. I think Christ Porter Jr. And Jaylon Tyson alongside Donovan Mitchell has been a great three man grouping that Kenny Atkinson needs to stick with when it comes to finding these combinations and these lineups. That work, especially during the period where Darius Garland and Sam Arrow could be out. Don’t know exactly how long that’s going to be. It’s still uncertain. But if this lineup works, especially against a lengthy, physical, athletic team like the Philadelphia 76ers, I wonder what other matchups Kenny Atkinson would be able to deploy this in and find success.
Jimmy Watkins: I like the way Craig is always looking. There’s not a ton of like super fancy passes that he’s making. At least tonight, I don’t think he was making any like, super advanced reads. He’s just keeping the machine going. He pokes holes in your defense, which is something that the Cavs severely lack. When Darius Garland isn’t out there, he can get in the paint and force help and kick out for threes. Darius. Other thing I always like about Craig, he’s always, he’s. He’s good at finding trailers. Well, I think he found, he found Donovan for a trailing three. That’s. And he found Jared Allen for a trailing, like driving layup. That’s just really low hanging fruit. That’s the difference between like a point guard and a combo guard. Right? Like a point guard is, is. Has his head up, knows where everyone is supposed to be and when they’re not there. Okay. Where are they? And if they’re somewhere where the defense is out of position, where if I give them the bar and I’m giving them the ball. Right. Whereas someone who’s just a ball handler might just go instead of, instead of waiting for, for some of those opportunities. So Craig’s. Craig’s such a unique player. He’s still more of a pure point guard. He’s a little hesitant to shoot the ball sometimes. I don’t love that. There was, I think there was a play tonight where he was open. He probably should have shot the ball. He tried to. He tried to swing across the court and it got turned into a turnover. Might have been his only turnover. You don’t love that. And his, the key to his future is still long term, the three point shot. But on a nightlight tonight, when you’re shorthand, like that’s, that’s why you have those kind of guys, man. He’s your break class in case of emergency, second ball handler. And he handles that duty really, really well. It’s kind of intuitive to think of it this way. But when he has a longer rope, he looks better, right? Like when he has opportunities to feel the game out and read the game, he starts to see it better. And I think you saw that tonight.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. Jimmy and I think that last portion is really important. We’ve talked about the leash that Kenny Atkinson has had with Craig Porter Jr. This season. I was worried when he had that first half turnover that maybe Kenny Atkinson would shorten that leash. But obviously that wasn’t necessarily possible because you had to turn to Lonzo Ball and Tyrese Proctor. But you also know you still needed Craig Porter Jr. Not to say that Lonzo and Tyrese didn’t do their job, because we’re going to get into that. Because Kenny pushing Craig into the starting lineup meant the bench needed answers, right? De’Andre Hunter and Nae’Qwan Tomlin provided them. The posters on Joel Embiid are the starters. They’ll get the highlights, but the substance of what they did around the ball was more important than that. De’Andre Hunter was decisive, attacking closeouts, forcing rotations and creating sprayout opportunities for others. Maquon Tomlin did what he always does, sprinting the floor, cutting with purpose, playing with relentless energy. And obviously their physicality, their grit, their mentality, and all of those little things that those two do when they’re at their best is extremely important. And even if you just saw Nae’Qwan Tomlin jumping for joy, trying to find a rebound, tipping it up in the air, battling with Joel Embiid, all those little things are super crucial to what this team does. Even rookie Tyrese Proctor, as I mentioned, gave them quality minutes, 13 points, three triples. He stayed within himself and punished the defense when it helped. Too far off. Even with that escape dribble, he had struggled coming into this game with his shooting, especially when he had to put the ball on the floor and create his self and get into a shot off the dribble. I think it was great to see him knock a couple down tonight. But Jimmy, I think the bench is still trying to find itself. And I think the opportunity for Craig Porter Jr. To step into the starting lineup, it helped them stay in the roles that they’re used to. Rather than De’Andre getting put in the starting lineup or Nae’Qwan getting put in the starting lineup, I think again referencing that three man lineup that has been so great for the Cleveland Cavaliers this season. I think having that to lean back on while having Evan Mobley and Jared Allen be there to support defensively has helped that unit. Particularly.
Jimmy Watkins: De’Andre’s making shots again. Let’s start there. That’s a good start. He’s going strong to the rim again. Should it be this way that making shots unlocks so many different other parts of De’Andre Hunter’s game and not making shots locks so many other parts of his game. No, you don’t love it. But when he’s making shots, it’s a breath of fresh air, reminder of what he can be to help this team. He. He’s been going strong at the Jo lmb these last two games, man. It’s also just as a side note, as an appreciator of basketball, it’s a sad watch with Joel Embiid these days. Man, he doesn’t have as much lift. He doesn’t move the way he used to. This guy used to be an incredible defensive anchor, man. He could cover a lot of ground. They were playing so much drop with. One of the reasons why the Cavs were killing them the other day. They’re playing a ton of drop with him because they don’t really think he can play up to the level anymore. He had a nice game offensively tonight, but the drop off is steep and I. I hope that we can one day see the. The peak Joel Embiid play basketball again. I’m starting to doubt that as he pushes past 30, but I really want to see Joel Embiid do awesome stuff in basketball. Basketball court. He’s a really likable dude. He’s a great player. I digress. But De’Andre Hunter trending up. Nick won. Tommen is just a madman. He’s just. He’s just running all over the court, mucking it up, getting his hand on any rebound. Every rebound you think Nae’Qwan Tomlin can’t get his hand on. He can get his hand on it. He is the number one abuser of rims across the NBA. He’s screaming, he’s yelling out there. You can hear him. The hot mics will catch him. He cares a lot. There’s probably a lot of NBA guys who don’t know who Maquan Tomlin is yet are looking around like, who is that dude? He’s playing with a different kind of spirit than the rest of us, and it’s. It’s something that you desperately need. Him and Jaylon Tyson both bring something that you desperately need to a team that has a tendency to get lethargic. If we could take whatever it is that revs Nae’Qwan Tomlin’s motor, whatever that oil is, and just a little bit of that into Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, boy would be cooking. Boy, we’d be cooking. Fortunately, that’s not how it works. Every person is different. Every person is motivated, different. But I enjoy watching Nikon Tomlin fighting for every rebound Fighting. Fighting on every possession like his life depends on it. I mean, that’s a dude who’s come up through the G League. That’s where that hunger comes from. That dude plays basketball like he doesn’t know when the next time he’s going to play basketball is, because that’s been his reality at some points in his life. And I love it. I really appreciate it. And Tyrese Proctor, man, fun stuff, fun stuff. You mentioned the shooting is good. He had a. A nasty little reverse. I think it was right hand on the right side. At one point in this game, I had basically zero expectations. You would have heard nothing from me. Negative about Tyrese Proctor. If we saw none of Tyrese Proctor this year and. Or if we saw some of Tyrese Proctor and it was pretty freaking rough. But it’s not looking that way. Tyrese Proctor is already showing signs of one day being a useful rotation player much earlier than we expected. Of the themes of this cav pot, I think we’re talking grittiness, which is what we needed to see. Resiliency and just a victory lap for the front office man. Like Donovan Mitchell trade. Okay, there was risk involved, but it’s Donovan Mitchell, like, you know what you’re getting. Evan Mobley, draft pick. I know he went third, but it wasn’t much of a debate between Evan and who would have been after Scotty. Yeah, you took. You were taking Evan Mobley. Darius Garland. There was real. There was real concerns, injury concerns about Darius Garland. We didn’t know a lot about Darius Garland. We’ll give you a gold star for that one. But again, we’ve said this before, these moves on the margins are even harder to make these second round or later, guys. I mean, think about it. Sam Merrill, linchpin player for this offense, right? Sam Merrill, last pick in the draft. Frank Porter Jr. Undrafted, helpful rotation player. Like, don’t win this game without him. Right? Dean Wade’s hurt right now, but often the difference between you being a passable rebounding team and not. And makes a huge difference on defense and like, super, super impressive. Jaylon Tyson, 20th pick. Don’t take that for granted. A lot of 20th pick, big swings and misses on other teams draft records. This front office is doing an excellent job filling in the gaps with very limited resources. And that is for now. It’s great because it helped you win this game in the near future. It’s great because Jaylon Tyson, Craig Porter Jr, Nae’Qwan Tomlin can all become something, right? Big, big, big picture. You live in the second apron. World now and the Cavs are probably going to try to get out of it at some point if this team doesn’t live up to its potential. But like in a world where every time you are pay your contending roster it freezes your roster and these second round picks, these late first round picks, all of those things, the the two way contracts, the way they manage those in a world where all that stuff is way more important than than it has ever been. The Cavs are crushing that department and that that deserves a round of applause.
Ethan Sands: I think we could argue, or maybe it’s not close like they have had the best or most impactful player development arc when it comes to players that they are now utilizing that have either been on a G league contract, been a two way player or were undrafted. Like this is a team that is made up of those players that has been impacted significantly by those players. So I definitely agree with you there Jimmy, and I think this team is going to thrive off of those players for a long, long time. It’s also why the Cavs have rebuffed some trades that included Jaylon Tyson. This is something that like the Cavs were hoping but necessarily didn’t know it was going to come. And that’s why they didn’t want to trade away Jaylon Tyson when he’s been in these different conversations. Because of his value. Because of him taking over the Isaac Okoro defensive stopper role and growing into that because he’s now entered the best three point shooter even though Sam Merrill and Max Strutz exist. Obviously Max Strutz hasn’t played this season, but still 47.5% from deep Jimmy, that’s an unheard of from a second year player, especially on his voice. You but of course I have to be the negative Nancy and come in with one gripe from today’s game to round out today’s podcast. My long critique circles back to Evan Mobley because I feel like we continue have to keep and hold him accountable in every contest because that’s how the Cavs need him. Consistency is what this is based on. But he slipped back into passivity as a decision maker and and it showed up in four turnovers. I’m sorry Jimmy, but for me if you’re a big man, if you have two or more turnovers, that’s just really really bad. He has to be more decisive in everything he does, particularly if he is only taking around 13 shots a night. That’s too many turnovers for a big man, especially one who is trying to grow as A passer. The defense is back to defensive player of the year territory. You don’t have to argue with me there. Three or more blocks in five of the last eight games. That side of the ball is elite. But this team needs offensive consistency from Evan Mobley, even if it comes as a facilitator rather than a clear number two option. I said this on a podcast earlier this week. He’s becoming more of a supportive character than a true star. Tonight’s game, there were escape triple threes, hesitation on shots, passing up clean looks, holding the ball for too long and too low in the paint, allowing for smaller guards to take it away from a seven footer, and then again playing against bigger defenders and not playing with the physicality that is required. All of it tilts the advantage back to the defense. Just Jimmy, when he stepped up to the free throw line with the game on the line, I was nervous. I was loading up my free throw story from earlier this season about him struggling from the line. Obviously he split. That was huge. He didn’t allow them to foul up. 3. All of these things are important, but I definitely think that Evan Mobley needs to be better, needs to be more consistent for this team over the long haul because he needs these things to show up in every movement. Because when Evan Mobley plays sure of himself, the entire offense breathes easier, plays better together and makes more sense. But when he’s playing slow, when he’s playing sloppy, when he’s playing like he doesn’t necessarily know what move to make because we know he is such an IQ player, you can see it affect the Cavs at every level offensively, because they trust in him, they need him and they believe him to a capacity that cannot be understated at this point in the season, at this point in his career, at this point with the trade deadline approaching, they need him to be better in every aspect of the game. And offensively is the biggest critique for him on a nightly basis. Which means that we have to continue to hold him accountable, especially when last season he said he wants to be one of the best players, if not the best player in the NBA in the next four to five years. So that’s coming up. And he’s not looking like a star. He’s looking like a rotation player showing flashes. But we need more.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s so frustrating, man. First of all, good Cavs win. Jaylon Tyson’s awesome. We’ve been very positive for the first 35 minutes of this podcast, but big picture, this, this just can’t keep happening. Okay. When Darius Garland goes out being a dead horse at this point, because we. We saw it at the beginning of the season, we see it now. There’s got to be a way for Evan Mobley to serve as a hub of the offense. That doesn’t mean. That doesn’t have to mean that Evan Mobley. You throw you the ball and clear out. It doesn’t have to mean that. But throw the ball at the elbow, run stuff off them like. It’s just not that. That stuff is not happening to the. To the extent that you need it to. You need to see it. If he’s going to be the player that you say he is. Right? He is. Like, you’re saying he’s a finisher. He’s not a facilitator, which is. Which is frustrating because when you see. You see moments where you. His passing vision is very impressive. It’s in there somewhere. But it doesn’t seem like the Cavs can count on him to do that consistently. And maybe that’s because they can’t count on him to be aggressive consistently. Or maybe that’s because they can’t count. They. We can’t find a bankable offensive skill. Say this is your thing now. Everything revolves around this, right? The three point shot. Have we paid attention recently this year, Guys, I know we thought last year was the breakthrough, but this year he’s shooting 33% on 3.8 attempts per game. He’s a 31% career shooter. He’s. This is his fourth season and he’s had three seasons. Under 35%, under 34%. I think 1. 37%. Which do you think is the outlier there? Which do you think is the outlier there? So I’m not convinced about the three point shot anymore. He was really weak around the rim tonight. Really weak around the rim. That’s super disappointing. You finished strong and the most important play of the game. That’s nice, but I’m right. I’m writing this column for Monday when OKC comes to town, just basically reiterating this. This positional size issue that the Cavs have. And as part of my research, I’m trying to find championship teams that featured two small guards. And we’re going to define small guard as six, four, shorter. Notice that Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland are shorter than that. Donovan’s listed at 62, Darius listed at 61. But I’m giving you some grace here. Six, four or shorter. I found one team. I think it’s the 78 Supersonics with. With Gus Williams. And. And Dennis Johnson and Dennis Johnson’s six four. So right on the. On the cusp there. Essentially, in the modern era, it hasn’t happened where a team with a player like Donovan Mitchell and a player like Darius Garland. High usage guards are the two drivers of offense, the two engines of your offense. Those teams don’t win championships. We know it, we say it, but that’s just another way to tell you the Cavs need Evan Mobley to at least become their second best player. Can we get there? And I know if we. If we factor in defense, sure, he’s already there, but they need more from him on the offensive end. Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell, they can’t carry the load for four rounds. History tells us Darius Garland is hurt again. Darius Garland has missed almost 50 games the last three seasons. Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell have only played 10 of 16 possible playoff games together, and they’ve never been out of the second round. Their bodies. Their bodies have failed them already at times. By the way, that doesn’t count the entire Magic series that Darius Garland was playing in but playing below his standard because he was still fighting back from the broken jaw. That doesn’t count all the nicks and bruises that Donovan has played through and that have sometimes slowed him down in the playoffs. It doesn’t count the games leading up to the two that he sat out at the end of the Boston series two years ago because he was playing so bang dunk. That’s early. Round two. So how do you think it’s going to go when those guys have to keep playing to that intensity and to that workload another round later or if everything goes according to plan, two rounds later, like, it’s really hard. Steph Curry is an anomaly. And one of the reasons that he has been able to have so much success is because he does so much of his work off the ball. They don’t move like he does. They. They dribble a lot. Their bodies take a pounding. They need someone to come in and relieve them and Evan Mobley needs to be that guy. I’m just so bummed, man. On everything that isn’t happening. There were so many exciting developments last year and we can’t work midway through this season. And I get. Darius hasn’t been there. He can help a lot. Midway. We’re past midway through this season now and we’re still waiting. We’re still waiting for Evan Mobley to get back to the point where he was last year. Forget growth, forget the next step. Can we go one step back? Can we can we get to level? The vibes are good right now, but still, reality check. They’re nowhere near where they need to be even to like even if the east is weird. It seems like every team has every There’s a new team with a crisis every day. The Knicks don’t look very good right now. I still don’t believe in the Pistons roster construction in the playoffs. Cavs are a live dog. They’re showing enough during these games. Enough of that great offensive DNA that sure throw them in the mix at this point. But for me to really believe that they can win the conference, they need Evan Mobley to be last year and more. And we’re still waiting for for it to get back to level. It drives me crazy. I’m sure it drives everyone at home crazy.
Ethan Sands: Want to reiterate? This was a great win for the Cavs. They didn’t fold under pressure in the second game in enemy territory in Philadelphia. They were able to come away with the win, come from behind all of these things. But while we have to react on a podcast five days a week or whatever game happens, we also have to understand what is going on behind the scenes and the big picture. Because again, great win for the Cavs. They’re going to come back to Cleveland on Monday and play against the reigning champion OKC Thunder. You’re going to hope to see if they can continue this. The Thunder have fell a couple of times this season, more than we thought they were going to. Are the Cavs going to come in as the underdogs? Heavily competitive? Intensity. High. Energy. High. All of these things that we’ve seen over the last two contests then can help shift a game that maybe you shouldn’t have won 18 turnovers again, but can turn itself into a good contest. A good win. That’s the hope for Cleveland coming into Monday. We’ll see if they can come away with it. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Watch and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.