CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor examine the Cavaliers’ options as the trade deadline nears, including whether exploring the G League for short-term help is a signal of where the roster really stands.
Takeaways:
The Cavs Are Exploring “Around the Margins” Trades
The Cavaliers are actively investigating the trade market but are not expected to make a major move. The focus is on finding helpful role players by potentially trading players like Lonzo Ball, whose contract offers salary cap relief via a team option, or Dean Wade, who is on an expiring deal. While De’Andre Hunter’s struggles make him a topic of discussion around the league, the return for these players would likely bolster the seventh or eighth spot in the rotation rather than alter the starting lineup. Specific names mentioned as potential targets who fit the salary parameters include Keon Ellis of the Sacramento Kings, Naji Marshall of the Dallas Mavericks, and Jose Alvarado of the New Orleans Pelicans.
Front Office Maintains Belief in the Current Roster
Despite the team’s underperformance, the Cavaliers’ front office is projecting confidence in the current group. The prevailing belief internally is that once the roster is fully healthy — with Max Strus, Sam Merrill and Darius Garland all back — their nine-man rotation is as talented as any in the Eastern Conference. Management perceives that other top conference teams, like the Knicks and Pistons, have their own significant flaws and vulnerabilities. This confidence suggests the organization is not desperate to make a significant trade, believing the team is capable of competing for a championship as currently constructed if it can get healthy and play up to its potential.
Killian Hayes is a 10-Day Contract Candidate, but Roster Flexibility is Prioritized
The Cavaliers are pleased with Killian Hayes’ performance with the G-League Charge and view him as a top candidate for a 10-day contract, a sentiment bolstered by coach Kenny Atkinson’s familiarity with him through the French national program. However, there is no immediate urgency to make this move. The primary reason for the delay is the approaching trade deadline. The front office is prioritizing roster flexibility, intentionally keeping the 15th roster spot open. This allows them to more easily facilitate trades, such as a two-for-one deal, without being forced into waiving a player. A 10-day signing for Hayes would only become more likely if the team suffered further injuries to its ball-handlers.
Critical Coverage Has Led to Necessary Conversations with Players and Staff
Reporter Chris Fedor confirmed he has had many conversations with players and front-office members this season regarding his critical coverage. With the team carrying the highest payroll in the NBA and championship expectations, the scrutiny has intensified when they underachieve. Fedor notes that he navigates these interactions by vowing to never make criticism personal and asking to be judged by his complete work, not out-of-context clips from social media. He believes the players and organization respect this professional boundary, allowing for frank, man-to-man conversations that can be productive, even if they are uncomfortable in the moment.
Expectations and Scrutiny Have Reached “LeBron Era” Levels
The standards for the Cavaliers have fundamentally shifted. Just a few years ago, winning 50 games was a celebrated success for a rebuilding team. Now, as the league’s most expensive roster and the only team in the second luxury tax apron, the organization is judged on a championship-or-bust standard reminiscent of the LeBron James era. This means players are no longer praised simply for reaching milestones but are instead scrutinized against their previous peak performances. The team’s desire for a larger national media presence has been granted, but it has brought a much more intense microscope, where any plateau in performance or failure to meet expectations is met with harsh critique.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Cavs beat reporter and of course, we could not do the hey Chris episode for this week without them. So without further ado, let’s drop right in on these questions from our Subtext subscribers. The first one, Chris, comes from Ben Y in Akron. He says, hey Chris, can you tell us anything about what types of players or specific players the Cavs have been looking at on the trade market? I know we’re not looking at huge moves, but I’d be shocked if we weren’t at least investigating what we could get for Lonzo, DeAndre and or Dean Wade. By the way, I don’t want to trade Dean, just mentioning him because I know his contract has been mentioned as a trade candidate around the league. Chris, what do you think about these three guys and who the Cavs might be looking at or the player type or archetype that the Cavs might be looking at in the trade deadline?
Chris Fedor: Well, I think the first thing, Ethan, is that, you know, there are a lot of teams around the NBA that, that are looking for salary cap relief. Either they’re in the first apron and they want out of it. Either they’re in the tax and they want out of it or they’re very, very close to the tax and they want a little bit more salary cap flexibility moving forward. So I do think from that standpoint, Dean Wade makes sense. He’s an expiring contract. I also think from that standpoint, Lonzo Ball makes sense because he has a contract that has a team option for next year. So the team controls whatever decision, whatever direction they want to go. Most likely based on what Lonzo has shown here in the first four to five games, most likely he hits free agency, the team decides, no, we’re not going to pick up that team option for $10 million. We get some salary cap relief. That’s what we’re looking for. Dallas reportedly is a team that that wants salary cap relief, so that’s a team to watch. But I think from that standpoint, those two guys do make sense. And then the DeAndre thing continues to be brought up by a lot of people around the league just because he still hasn’t turned the corner. He is still struggling and there’s curiosity about what are the Cavs going to do with DeAndre? Are they going to just continue to work through these struggles with him? Is he going to get pushed further down the depth chart. What’s his workload going to look like when Max Struse comes back and he’s finally healthy? So there are a lot of moving parts, and I think a lot of teams around the league and a lot of people around the league are kind of connecting dots and trying to read between the lines and form their own conclusions and stuff like that. But look like when you’re talking about Dean, when you’re talking about DeAndre, when you’re talking about Lonzo, everybody knows the flaws. Those aren’t major guys that are going to bring you back these significant contributors. I think the Cavs can find some helpful pieces for any one of those guys, but it’s not going to be a major move. It just might be one of those moves around the margins where all of a sudden you get better with the seventh guy in your rotation or the eighth guy in your rotation. So you have to ask yourself, is that worth it? How much is that worth it? What are these kinds of players going to bring to the team? And I’m still of the belief that Lonzo’s probably the most likely to go. So the other thing that you have to look at is the guys that fit within those salary parameters. So we’re talking about guys that make around 8, 9, $10 million a year. So some guys that I’ve heard that could make sense for the Cavs. Keon Ellis of the Sacramento Kings, Najee Marshall of the Dallas Mavericks, again, a team that looks like they want some salary cap relief. Bobby Portis of the Milwaukee Bucks could probably be had. Milwaukee’s got to figure out what direction they want to go in. Are they trying to get help for Giannis? Are they going to trade Giannis? So you try and find some of these underachieving teams, some of these teams that, that are looking at a situation where they’re not going to make the playoffs, they’re not going to make the play in, and they might have some expendable players, but Keon Ellis is a name that I have heard multiple times. I’ve heard Najee Marshall multiple times. I’ve heard Bobby Portis multiple times. So those guys, Portis makes a little bit more than Lonzo. So that might have to be more like a DeAndre hunter type. But from the standpoint of Keon Ellis and Najee Marshall, they kind of fit in that, that salary cap parameter that, that. That. That Lonzo offers in terms of cap relief.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris and I, I mentioned none.
Chris Fedor: Of Jose Alvarado is another one that I think Makes sense for the Cavs. It doesn’t seem like they’re all that interested New Orleans in trading their good wings, their talented wings, Herb Jones and in Trey Murphy. You know, it’s so bizarre to me, Ethan, that when we have these conversations around the trade deadline how much bad teams value the players that they have, and it’s like, you have 10 wins. I’m not trying to tell New Orleans, like how to run their show or anything like that, but it’s perplexing to me that you have this 10 win team that is going nowhere, whose first round draft pick is headed to Atlanta, and a 10 win team is labeling three or four different guys as untouchable. What world are we in? Like, seriously? I don’t know, it’s, it’s strange to me. I, I still think that if a team blows away New Orleans, that’s the, the key point here. If they blow away New Orleans, maybe Herb Jones can be had, Trey Murphy can be had. But it does seem like the indications are Jose Alvarado, Misi, maybe the guys further down the list kind of fit in that, that Cavs range, I don’t think me see is a fit necessarily. But Alvarado I think makes sense from a Cavs perspective in all the things that he would bring to the table.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris, and I’ve mentioned a couple of different scenarios for this Cavs team. You mentioned Bobby Portis. I think that they could get Bobby Portis and Andre Jackson from the Milwaukee Bucks for DeAndre Hunter if they wanted to go the two for one route. I think if they wanted to blow up the core four, which I don’t think they’re going to, they could go Jared Allen for Irv Jones and Yves Missy, as you mentioned. Right. And then when you look at Dean Wade, maybe a trade for shading Sharp with a couple of seconds thrown in for his value. Obviously, to your point, Chris Keon Ellis is on the Sacramento Kings and he’ll come to Cleveland on Friday to maybe get a little bit of a test run, a showcase for the Cavs to see what he’s capable of and what they might be getting. And Keon Ellis will be bringing ball handling and all these kinds of things when it comes to the point guard spot and, and taking some load off of Donovan Mitchell when it comes to that, having a little bit more experience than guys like Craig Porter Jr. And Jaylon Tyson and that kind of role. But our next question from our subtexters throws out another hypothetical that could help the Cleveland Cavaliers in that capacity. Here’s Our question from Scott in Lakewood. He asks, given the Cavs current lack of ball handlers, would it make sense to for the team to sign Killian hayes to a 10 day contract? Would he help or would this be more trouble than it’s worth? So before I let Chris give his detailed answer, let’s walk through some stats of Killian Hayes this season in the G League with the Cleveland Charge. They’re actually currently playing, but According to the NBA G League website and stats database, in 17 games this season, combining the tip off tournament and the regular season, Killian Hayes is averaging 31.9 minutes per game, 24.4 points per game on 45.5% from the field and 31.3% from deep. He’s also averaging 8.3 assists per game, matched with 2.5 turnovers per game and 1.8 steals per game. And obviously we know Kellian Hayes was not originally a G League prospect. He was a lottery pick and has been trying to reinvigorate his NBA career with the Cleveland Charge. So Chris, I circle back to the question. Do you think it would be wise for the Cavs to give Killian Hayes a ten day contract?
Chris Fedor: Well, look, I think we have to lay it out here. Teams are now allowed, based on where we are in the calendar to start giving 10 day contracts. That started about two weeks ago. The Cavs have had discussions internally about what they’re going to do in terms of 10 day contracts. Is there somebody out there that they want to give a 10 day to? They’re always looking at those possibilities. Killian Hayes has been great with the Charge and the Cavs are thrilled with his progress in his development and what he has done down in the G League. A lot of the stuff that they’ve asked of him to work on and things that they wanted to see from his internal development, he is doing those things. The other thing is Kenny Atkinson’s a fan. It’s well documented, Kenny’s ties with the French national team and Killian being French being part of that group, even though you know he hasn’t been on the big stage, the Olympics and stuff like that. There is a pipeline, right? If you’re part of that group, it’s just like USA basketball. If you’re part of the under 16, under 17, under 18. There are different things that you do as a prep and certain relationships that you build and certain connections that you have that are always going to be there. You know, Killian’s not Wemby, you know what I mean? He’s not Rudy Gobert, but Kenny because of his connections with the French national team and the other people that he interacts with. When he does do his French national team stuff, there is a pipeline to guys like Gershon, Yabu Selly or Killian Hayes. Even so, Kenny is fully aware of Killian. If he wants a detailed scouting report that goes beyond what he’s done in the G League, he can call up all of his contacts with the French national team or coaches over there or assistants over there and he can get all that kind of information that he wants. So I do think it’s something that the Cavs are looking at, but you have to ask yourself and we understand 10 days and for the Cavs, it’s usually more of a reward for what guys do behind the scenes and they want to give them a little bit of bump, a little bit of experience, just time around the NBA team. But more times than not, unless things really go haywire, these 10 day contracts rarely play. So if you’re talking about Killian Hayes, what’s the benefit? From a roster construction standpoint? Whose minutes would he be taking? If they get to a situation where Craig Porter Jr. Misses time behind Darius Garland and you’ve got two ball handlers out simultaneously and you’ve completely given up on Lonzo Ball, then sure, like I totally understand more urgency to go that direction. But I think from everything that I gather, the Cavs are still in the feeling out process of what they’re going to do with the 10 day contract. The other thing to consider is that the trade deadline is fast approaching. It’s about two weeks away, and part of what the Cavs did earlier this year with Naquan Tomlinson and when they made him active, when they didn’t make him active, part of that was intended to tie into the whole trade deadline because you want to keep flexibility, you want to keep optionality, you don’t want to lock in your 15th roster spot unless you absolutely have to. Because if you take two players back for one, then it impacts some of the stuff that you can do in terms of flexibility and optionality. And those are two words that, that the Cavs love to throw around. Those are two words that the Cavs value greatly. So I just don’t sense, even though Darius is missing time right now, even though Lonzo is in the rotation then out of the rotation for a couple of days, I just don’t see like a huge sense of urgency to give Killian a 10 day contract. But if they do decide to give somebody a 10 day contract. I think Killian’s definitely near the top of that list. Look, his teammate down with the Cleveland charge, Darius Brown is somebody that this organization has an affinity for. He’s somebody who’s been around the organization for a number of years, spent time with them at summer league multiple times as well. So he might be, you know, on that same kind of list. So it’s something that the Cavs are always looking at. They’re always scouting possibilities for a 10 day contract. But given what Killian has done, I think he would probably be one of the first on the list to potentially get a 10 day from the Cavs.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, we talked about that experience also playing in right. Killian already has five years of NBA experience under his belt. Did he have the greatest years in Detroit and Brooklyn? No, but he has experience nonetheless. The other portion of this, Chris, you talk about the comparison between Killian Hayes and Darius Brown. Obviously Darius Brown is more of a pure point guard than Killian Hayes is, but there’s also a large height discrepancy between the two. Darius Brown is somewhere between 6 foot and 6 foot 2 and that might even be a stretch. And Killian Hayes is somewhere in the range of 6 foot 3 and 6 foot 5. So you understand how opposing defenses are attacking Darius Garland. Imagine somebody being even smaller and not having that defensive affinity and having teams know that coming in, especially coming out of the G League without having that extra level of NBA experience or the build to really be able to withstand some of these larger guards in the league. So I’m in agreement with you. I think Killian Hayes would make sense if the Cavs wanted to go that route. But the two for one deals at a trade deadline, Naquan Tomlin, literally only having one current open spot, that 15th man roster spot makes all of these decisions really difficult. And Jimmy said it earlier this week on the podcast, I do not envy Kobe Altman in the front office’s decision when it comes to this trade deadline because we’ve talked in the past, Chris, about the Cavs not necessarily having to make moves, being able to stand pat or knowing exactly where they might have gone. Now it feels like it’s all hands on deck trying to figure out what the best decision is. And then part of that is because of the second apron and all that they are dealing with this season. And of course we talked about this on a podcast a couple of weeks ago. Dan Gilbert and maybe getting a little antsy when it comes to this Cavs team and the money that he’s put on the line for this season in particular.
Chris Fedor: I can just tell you that the vibe that the Cavs are giving to people around the league is that they still believe in this group and they want to see what this group looks like. And I’m not saying that they’re right.
Ethan Sands: Or they’re wrong, but one of the.
Chris Fedor: Ways that they’re looking at it is telling themselves when Max Strus comes back, when Sam Merrill’s back in the lineup. And it doesn’t mean that the Cavs are waiting for these things to start, like playing good basketball, but like they can tell themselves, they can convince themselves that when Max comes back and Sam Merrill’s in the lineup and Darius Garland’s in the lineup and they’ve got what looks like a fully healthy roster if, if that ever happens, I mean, you’re talking about a top nine of Darius Donovan, Max Stru, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Sam Merrill, Jalen Tyson, DeAndre, Hunter, Dean Wade. They would not be crazy to say that that’s as good as it gets in the Eastern Conference. Despite the fact that to this point they have underachieved. Despite the fact to this point they haven’t established an identity. Despite the fact to this point they haven’t shown a whole lot of basketball maturity. And we have questions about some of the leadership tactics, behind the scenes and whatnot. Like that stuff all exists. But there’s the other side of this in terms of how desperate are we going to be at the trade deadline? How motivated are we going to be at the trade deadline? There’s the other side of it, of saying, hey, like if we get right, we might have the best eight man rotation, nine man rotation in the entire Eastern Conference. And by the way, as good as Detroit has been their bottom 10 in the NBA and half court offense, that’s a flaw of theirs. As good as the Knicks have been defensively, there are questions about Jalen Brunson, Carl Anthony Towns, their defense in a playoff environment. So even though the Cavs are deeply flawed, and we’ve talked about all of those flaws, some of them we think more correctable than others. There is no team in the NBA aside from Oklahoma City that doesn’t have similar flaws. And when you get into the Eastern Conference hierarchy, those teams are even more flawed. And the Cavs don’t have to deal with Oklahoma City to get to the NBA Finals. The Cavs don’t have to go through Denver to get to the NBA Finals. The Cavs don’t have to go through. However, you believe in Phoenix or Minnesota. The Eastern Conference is considered the lesser conference still and because of that I think there’s an honest feeling from the Cavs and the people that built this roster, the decision makers of this team, of if we get right, we are capable, we’ll see if they’re right or wrong on that. But that’s the impression that they’re giving off to a lot of people that are making calls, trying to figure out who’s available, trying to gauge their temperature for how active they’re going to be at the trade deadline.
Ethan Sands: Chris, you basically answered one of the other questions from our subtexters, but I wanted to just give a clarified statement for anew from San Francisco who was trying to just get a sense of do you think this is the vibe you said from some people around the organization? Do you think this is the feeling that Dan Gilbert and Colby Altman have heading into the trade deadline that this is still arguably the best constructed roster in the Eastern Conference at least?
Chris Fedor: Yes, I believe that that’s what they feel. Despite the fact that they have had some some players on this roster that have underachieved, I do believe that they look around the Eastern Conference and say that there are other teams that have performed better, there are other teams ahead of us in the standings, but they are just as vulnerable as what we have shown throughout the first 45 games of the season.
Ethan Sands: All right, Chris, let’s get to the last question of today’s podcast, and this one is just pulling the veil back on what we do as reporters, how we interact with the sources that we have, the interactions we have with players, and how our writing podcasts opinions can be perceived by the organization. This question comes from Tim C. In Canton, Ohio. He says, hey Chris, when you write something pretty blunt after a bad loss, what kind of reaction do you get from players or coaches, if any? I’m thinking about your post after the OKC game about the gap between the Cavs and the Thunder. Do guys ever push back on something like that or is it mostly understood as part of the job?
Chris Fedor: Oh no, there’s been a lot of confrontations and I feel like even more so this year because there’s more pressure around this team, there are higher expectations and we’re judging them based on the standard that they supposedly set for themselves. So when they don’t play to that standard consistently, then that’s how the coverage is going to be skewed. If this was a team that was in the early stages of rebuild or just trying to get out of the play in tournament and become a playoff team, and success was defined by just getting to the playoffs or winning a first round series, then we would be judging them as a team of whether or not they can do that. But. But that’s not this team. This is the most expensive roster in the NBA. This is the only team in the second apron. And because of that, the judgment’s going to be harsher when they underachieve and they have underachieved. I think everybody around the NBA would say that the Cavs have been one of the greatest underachievers to this point, one of the greatest disappointments in the NBA to this point. It’s not to say that it’s going to carry that way through the entire second half of the season. It’s not to say that the Cavs aren’t going to emerge from this a better team. But to this point, that’s who they’ve been. So I feel like the coverage has to match that, and I feel like the coverage has masked that. But because of that, there’s a more critical eye toward what they’re doing or what they’re not doing, and there’s more criticism toward players. And I’ve had many conversations with many players in that locker room that have confronted me, have talked to me about certain things that I have said, certain things that I have written. I’ve had many conversations with members of this front office who weren’t happy about a certain tone that I took with one of my stories or one of the things that I said on a podcast, or one of the things that I said on a national radio with Sirius XM Radio, or something along those lines. Yeah, I mean, I think that happens all the time. But the thing that, that I tell everybody from the very beginning is, number one, if you’re going to judge me and if you’re going to want to have these kinds of conversations, we can always talk through them, no problem. But make sure that you’re judging me based on everything that is below my byline that I write, or everything that. That I say that you hear from me when listening to the podcast, because there’s a lot of aggregation out there. There’s a lot of things that are posted to certain Twitter accounts that don’t provide the same kind of context, that don’t provide everything that is said or written, because it’s just different. It’s not. It’s not firsthand stuff, it’s secondhand stuff. And some of the nuance and some of the contexts can get lost. And I’m totally aware that most of these NBA players and people close to them, especially on the Cavs, their friends, their family members, they’re following Bleacher Report, they’re following NBA Central, they’re following Legion of Hoops, they’re following all these different kinds of accounts. And then that’s what they see. And then they send that to the particular player and it’s like, well, wait a minute, that’s not what I wrote. Wait a minute, that’s not what I said specifically. So I have told guys in the past, look, if you’re going to judge me, just do it based on everything below my byline. And the other thing that I have told guys and members of the organization and I’ve been doing this now for 12 years. So I feel, and I’ve been around Kobe Altman for a decade now at this point in time. I’ve been around Mike Gansey for nearly the same amount. I’ve been around other members of their front office for nearly the same amount. So I feel like they have a grasp on how I go about my job and the way that I approach it and the tone that I take and stuff like that. And everybody, from what I understand in these conversations that I have, I try to present, it’s part of my job. I’m going to be critical at times. I’m going to be praiseworthy at times. But the one thing that I will never do is I will never take it to a personal level. I won’t, I won’t cross that line. And I think enough people inside the organization and enough players in that locker room respect that approach that I take. Because look, there are other situations around the NBA where it has gotten personal and to me that’s too far. But if I look at how you’re performing on the basketball court and I back up the things that I say, the things that I believe, with numbers, with opinions from other people that I trust around the game, coaches, players, scouts, opposing GMs and stuff like that. I feel like I wouldn’t be doing my job and I wouldn’t be a credible reporter if I just talked about everything being great all the time. Because that’s not how an 82 game season works. But I have had conversations with many players inside the locker room throughout the course of this year about things that I’ve written and things that I’ve said that they haven’t, they haven’t liked. But, but I respect the fact, and I think they respect the fact that we can have those genuine man to man conversations when the cameras aren’t around when the recorders aren’t rolling. And I’m open to criticism. Not everything that I say is going to be right. You know what I mean? Like, I’m going to do my best to present what I feel is going on. I’m going to do my best to present what I see and give my opinion. But am I always going to be right about the things that I say when it comes to my opinion on this team? Like, no, of course not. And so I told them, like, hey, when I’m wrong, like, call me up and we’ll talk through it. And that’s fine. Confrontation can be a good thing, just like confrontation within a team can be a good thing and it can be healthy and it can be productive. I think the same thing when, you know, players want to challenge me about some of the things that, that I say or some of the things that I write. But admittedly, it can be uncomfortable for, for a day or two days when, you know, you have a belief or you have heard that a player is upset with you or an agent is upset with you, or a team executive is upset with you as well.
Ethan Sands: To get to one of your original points, like, as simple as it might sound. Last season when they were winning 64 games, it was mostly positive, right? When we were talking about this team, there was very seldom a difficult topic that we were having when it came to that 64 win team. Did we start getting more critical when they were losing four games in a row in March and April and Donahue was talking about, I love this, I like this, I want to deal with this now before the playoff. Yes, but that comes with the territory, right? You play well, we praise you. You don’t play well, you get critiqued. The nature of this business on both sides of it, right? Like we are if we write something bad, not everything we write is going to be good. I’ve had bad game stories, I know it, I can admit that. But guys have also had bad games. That’s the same thing. And I think when we talk about the communication between us and the players, like, there’s always going to be hesitancy. Like there’s been times this season when Donovan Mitchell was like, I don’t want to use that word with you guys because it can get blown out of proportion, all of these things. And then I always think back to last year’s end of season press conference with Donovan Mitchell because of course, he’s one of the most articulate and just intelligent people that we get to talk to. Even he Said, you guys are going to write us off all summer long, like that’s just what you’re going to do. And then I pulled up this quote from last season’s end of season press conference from him, because obviously the one where he mentions, y’ all gonna write us off was the one that blew up. But for this context, this is what he said. No disrespect to you guys in the room. Some of you guys do an unfair job of scrutinizing guys and guys who aren’t necessarily deserving of the scrutiny that they get. The guys go through a lot of things that people don’t speak on or don’t have the opportunity to speak in front of you guys, because every day and talk about it. And that’s part of our job, is to uncover these personable stories so readers, listeners, fans can have a better understanding and we can have a better understanding of these players. That’s why at multiple points of this season, I haven’t been necessarily trying to dig into Darius Garland’s injury, but I’ve been trying to give him the platform to speak on what he’s going through, right? Because at multiple points last season, Darius was like, well, you don’t know what I’m going through. And I’m sitting there, I’m like, so tell us. This is the platform that you have so that nobody is speculating, so that nobody is questioning. And I know Jared Allen wishes he had that opportunity in the Orlando Maddox series a couple of years ago. So you want to continue to give these guys the platform to tell us their stories? Because before AI came around, before, before we were like having so much aggregation. That was the beauty of journalism, the storytelling aspect of it. That’s why I fell in love with it, because you got to uncover stories. It wasn’t about the game story. When it gets to the minutia of, oh, we’re only looking at stats, we’re only looking at this. It’s like there are people under there. And I think we have mentioned that more than anybody on this podcast, that athletes, our people first, and we try to give them that appearance. At least I think we do from this podcast in our writing. And sometimes it can get perceived a different way because we’re being critical, we’re being harsh. But as Chris mentioned, as we wrote about for cleveland.com, this is all based on an expectation that they set for themselves coming into the season, talking about wanting to get to a championship. Donovan said in an exclusive interview with Chris before the season began. I want a ring, that’s the baseline.
Chris Fedor: That’s it.
Ethan Sands: And then we talk about contracts and how this team is going to be different and all these different things. But behind all of that, this is all, all of our critiques, all of our criticisms are because the Cavs told us this is what they want. And Donovan said, call us out, do it, because we need it to some capacity. That was the biggest leadership point I saw from him going into the off season, is that they know we’re going to write them off. They know we’re going to say some things that are going to be critical. It’s about how they respond. And that’s continuously been his message to the Cleveland Cavaliers organization and his teammates.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, and if you set a certain standard and you don’t play to that consistently or as much as what you would think a championship team should, then it’s not going to be overly positive. You know what I mean? Like, there are people that didn’t like the tone that I took in last night’s game against Charlotte because they’re like, oh, it’s second half, you know what I mean? So, like, there are readers that are going to agree with the tone that we take or I take. There are readers that are going to disagree with the tone that I take and we take. And the thing that I will continue to do and the thing that I’ve been doing for 20 plus years in the Cleveland media is staying true to myself and staying true to my beliefs and not allowing other people to sway how I view things, not allowing other people to sway how I write, how I go about my job and things along those lines. So the other thing that I would point out is that fans have a tendency to be more critical and more emotional. It’s just part of it. It’s called fanatic. Go a little bit overboard, go a little bit crazy. It’s part of the territory of being a fan. And you’re paying a lot of money and you’re investing so much in this team. So when things aren’t going well, you are angry. Totally get that. But like, sometimes my criticism isn’t going to be as harsh as people may want because, like, I understand the circumstances and the nuance of, of what’s actually happening. For example, people wanted me to like, crucify Darius Garland last year for his playoff performance, but I stopped short of doing. I said certain things about Darius that people didn’t like. I talked about the possibility of the Cavs maybe one day have to think about breaking up the Core 4 because of the salary cap situation they’re in because the second apron and all that kind of stuff. But people wanted me to be harder on Darius’s performance in that series against Indiana because of the defensive problems against Miami, then the defensive problems against Indiana. But I felt like, I felt like, because I knew exactly what he was going through and I could see the pain. And I talked to so many people about that particular injury that because I was around the team constantly and because I’m in the position that I’m in that, that I can talk to a bunch of different sources about it, that, like, I just had more information than the general fan did about that situation. And I didn’t feel like it was necessary, given everything that he was trying to go through to, to either single him out or go in on him in a. A more critical way. So I think that’s the other thing that, that people have to remember as well, is that some of the stuff that we know, some of the stuff that we hear, some of the stuff that we see behind the scenes is going to play into, like, how we approach this job and how we approach a story and the tone that we take when writing a specific story.
Ethan Sands: I mean, I, I’ve been just churning through this Donovan Mitchell endo season press conference transcription, reading through some of the comments that he said, and it, it just takes you back, right? And makes you think about how far this team has come or how far this team hasn’t come. And that’s the biggest thing, right? Because as we mentioned on recent podcasts, this is the team that has been together for now four years, right? This team that has now put together the same mental toughness, the mental fortitude that they’ve wanted to address for years now. And I think when we talk about being critical, when we talk about praising, like, it’s not just game to game. And I’ve seen it on our YouTube comments too. Like, people are like, this podcast is a flip flop. Like, they keep going from. I was like, wait, so Jaylon Tyson has 29, 39 points one night, and then this is a minus 20 on the other night. This is just a random example. I don’t even know if those stats are accurate. But, like, how do you expect us to be positive the entire time, right? Wouldn’t you want us to hold them accountable? Wouldn’t you want us to talk about the things that we feel like they can improve? Because it’s clear some of them are listening to what we’re saying, some of them are reading what we’re saying, some of them get sent what we’re saying, like all of these other things. And I think if we were doing this hunky dory, positive only spinoff of, like, I’m not from here. I have no affiliation to Cleveland. I can’t be a fan. The fact that we’re trying to do the due diligence of covering the team with authenticity, covering the team with objectivity, that is what the role is as a journalist, and that is what we continue to try to do on every given day that we’re here. And as much as we talk about the grueling 82 game season for the Cavs, Chris is doing the same thing, I’m doing the same travel, all of these different things. And so we’re here grinding every day for you guys, for the fans, for the listeners, for people who want to argue. And sometimes I like seeing it because it helps give me motivation to be better. Right? It’s kind of the same thing we’re doing with the Cavs players and the Cavs organization. It’s kind of how it goes. You guys are what we are to them.
Chris Fedor: And then from the Cavs perspective, look, there was a time for this organization where you celebrate 50 wins. Like you take a celebratory tone when you do a podcast or when you write about the team because of where they came from. And they deserved credit for getting to the point of that, considering how much of a laughing stock they were early in the post LeBron era. So the coverage was going to match that, right? 50 wins was huge for this organization, given where they came from, because there’s no guarantee that when a team decides we’re going to go into rebuild mode, that we’re going to get out of it. And then all of a sudden we’re going to be a competent franchise again, or we’re going to be a respectable franchise again, or we’re going to become a contender in whatever conference that we’re in. Some of these teams are stuck in perpetual rebuilds. So when this team, given everything it went through all the missteps along the way, when they got to a point where they were starting to make the play in tournaments, they had guys getting to the All Star Game, they had guys in the conversation for Rookie of the Year, they started to win 50 games. That was success. Success was defined a different kind of way a couple of years ago. And then the tone, the coverage was obviously going to match. That didn’t mean that everything was great. It didn’t mean that everything they did during that time was perfect or was the right move, but it was. It was measuring that level of success against where they came from. And like I said, now it’s different. This is no longer the plucky underdog story. Just win a whole bunch of games in the regular season, let them know. Let them know that we belong. You know what I mean? Like, that’s not who these guys are. These guys, the way that the coverage has been to me is very similar to the LeBron era, where it was a lot harsher. You know, when they were going through their stumbles in the regular season, it was like alarm bells going off. Can they win a championship? Can they not win a championship? Here’s why they can do it. Here’s why they can’t do it. And it’s the same thing right now with, with this group, because there is pressure, there are expectations. They are under a microscope in a different kind of way than they ever have been. Evan Mobley is being compared to last year’s Evan Mobley, who made second team all NBA, who was a All Star for the first time. So when. When he doesn’t match that same level from last year, that’s how the view of Evan Mobley is going to be portrayed. And it doesn’t mean that he’s been bad this year, and it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a reason for, for the Cavs to think, hey, maybe possibly one day he can get back to that point where he’s an all NBA player. Maybe, possibly he can get back to that point where he’s on the MVP periphery. But this season it hasn’t been that. So it doesn’t mean that everybody’s down on Evan Mobley or everybody’s selling their stock on Evan Mobley or saying that, you know, he doesn’t belong as part of the core four or anything along those lines. It’s just point blank compared to last year. He hasn’t taken the steps forward that he needed to take. And this is no longer like an unknown commodity of, hey, you’re in the conversation for Rookie of the Year. What a brilliant draft pick by the Cavs, or, hey, you made the All Star team for the first time in your, your career. That means you’re ascending this way, and that means, like, you have a chance to be this breakthrough type success story. You know what I mean? Like, they needed Evan to take another big leap forward, especially on the offensive end of the floor, and that hasn’t happened. He’s. This year it’s been more of, like, a plateau situation. And so the coverage of Evan Mobley. The conversation surrounding Evan Mobley is going to match that. It’s the same thing when it comes to Darius Garland. Same thing when it comes to Jared Allen. It’s the same thing when it comes to DeAndre Hunter. It’s the same thing when it comes to Lonzo Ball. It’s the same thing when it comes to Sam Merrill, who has overachieved. It’s the same thing when it comes to all these different guys. Like, this is the team that they’re on. These are the expectations, these are the standards. And it’s, it’s very, very different than what it has been. And it’s required a mental shift, I think, from a lot of people. But it’s the reality.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris. And the last thing I’m going to say is last season the Cavs were begging for more national coverage. They were in every interview talking about, we need more national TV games. Well, you got it. And that comes with a microscope that you are under.
Chris Fedor: And more scrutiny.
Ethan Sands: Correct. And more criticism and all of these things because now you’re getting looked at like a team that deserves to be there. Not yet to prove it. So the Cavs coming into Friday night’s game against the Sacramento Kings and then Saturday’s game against the Orlando Magic, that’s where they’ll have to start. And we won’t record a podcast after tomorrow’s game, but we will circle back after Saturday night’s contest to make sure that you guys get the coverage that you guys deserve, because we wouldn’t be here without you. And we appreciate you guys listening and tuning in on five days a week. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your weekly hey Chris questions. Want to get a shout out like the guys did today? That’s how you do it. You can only do so by signing up for a 14 day free trial or visiting cleveland.com Cavs and clicking on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.