CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor dive into the Cavs trading Darius Garland, the longest-tenured Cavalier, to the Los Angeles Clippers for James Harden in a clear win-now swing aligned with Donovan Mitchell’s timeline. And why Cleveland still might not be done ahead of Thursday’s trade deadline.
Takeaways:
New Acquisitions Bring a Competitive Edge
The Cavaliers’ new acquisitions, Dennis Schröder and Keon Ellis, are reportedly excited to join a contending team and are expected to bring a needed dose of toughness and tenacity. Schröder, in particular, embraces his reputation as an agitating player who thrives in high-pressure moments, a quality he honed during international competitions with Team Germany. He expressed a desire to instill a more aggressive, trash-talking mentality in his new teammates. Both players have communicated their willingness to fit into the existing team structure and do whatever is necessary to help the team win, understanding that the Cavs are already an established playoff contender and that their role is to be additive, not disruptive.
A Major Trade for James Harden Has Gone From Possibility to Reality
A trade sending Darius Garland to the Los Angeles Clippers for James Harden has been confirmed after the recording of the podcast. According to sources mentioned in the podcast, Garland indicated to people at a recent practice that he expects to be a Clipper following the trade deadline. The primary motivation is to add a player in Harden who is seen as more prepared to be a co-star alongside Donovan Mitchell in an immediate championship chase.
“Finals or Bust” Mentality Fuels Aggressive Moves
The Cavaliers’ front office is operating with a “Finals or bust” mandate, driven by the belief that a uniquely clear path to the NBA Finals exists this season. The perceived weaknesses of other top Eastern Conference contenders — such as the Celtics dealing with an injury to Jayson Tatum and the flawed rosters of teams like the Pistons and Knicks — have created a sense of urgency. President of basketball operations Koby Altman’s recent comments about gaining “clarity on the Eastern Conference landscape” signal that the organization feels compelled to make bold moves. They are critically evaluating whether the current roster, including young stars like Darius Garland and Evan Mobley, is on the right timeline to win a championship now with Donovan Mitchell.
The Harden Trade Is a Potential Stepping Stone to Giannis Antetokounmpo
The potential acquisition of James Harden is viewed as part of a larger, multi-step strategy to ultimately land superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo. With the Cavs having to give up a second-round pick to acquire Harden, the question now turns to the package the Cavs would be willing to give up to enter the sweepstakes for one of the league’s best players and significantly increase their championship odds.
All Moves Are Dictated by Donovan Mitchell’s Timeline
The aggressive trade posturing from the Cavaliers’ front office is fundamentally driven by the ticking clock on Donovan Mitchell’s contract. With only one guaranteed season remaining after this one, there is immense pressure to build a legitimate championship-contending roster around him to convince him to sign a long-term extension. The organization recognizes this as their critical window to prove that Cleveland provides his best opportunity to win a title. This urgency explains their willingness to consider trading a core piece like Darius Garland for an older but more established star in James Harden, and even exploring a monumental trade for Giannis, as they are a risk-tolerant front office laser-focused on maximizing their chances now.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me Today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com cav beat reporter and he’s joining us from Los Angeles where he got to meet the new acquisitions of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Dennis Schröderr and Keon Ellis today at practice ahead of their contest against the Los Angeles Clippers. And we’ll get there, but that’s for Wednesday. So before we get into the craziness that is the trade deadline inching ever closer For Thursday at 3pm what were your takeaways and initial thoughts of meeting the new guys?
Chris Fedor: Well, it just seems like they’re genuinely excited to be in a situation where they’re competing for something. They have something to play for. Dennis Schröderr said one of the best moments of his entire career was Eurobasket winning the gold medal for Germany. He talks about the World Cup. He talked about his Olympic experience with Team Germany. He seems like a guy who loves being in pressure packed environments, seems like a guy who relishes big games, big, big moments. And he seems like a guy who is going to bring an edge to this team that they need. He even joked about seeing if he could get Evan Mobley and Jared Allen and some of these other guys who are on the roster to talk a little shit alongside him. That’s what he said. That’s who he is. He’s the kind of guy who, if you’re on the other side, he’s annoying, he’s a nuisance. You don’t like playing against him, but when he’s on your side, you know that he’s going to go to war with you. When you get between the lines, it’s no friends, it’s all competition. And that’s the style that he has played with his entire career. He talked about being an undersized backup point guard. That’s the only way he can play. It’s the only thing he can do to stick in the NBA. And he said he learned that a long time ago. And he doesn’t mind the characterization that he is a bit of an a hole. He doesn’t mind the characterization that he plays with an edge and he gets under the opponent’s skip. He said he likes that. And when it comes to Keon Ellis, it’s the same kind of thing, toughness, tenacity, point of attack, defense. So a lot of this stuff, Kenny’s got to figure out how to best use Denis, how to best use Keon what are the best lineups? What are the best combinations? What are the best positions? Where do they want the ball to be the most comfortable version of themselves? Where do they want the ball to make the Cavs the best version of themselves? So this is a work in progress. There are things that, that Kenny and teammates have to figure out about these guys and playing alongside these guys. But they seem genuinely excited about the fact that they went from Sacramento, one of the worst teams in the NBA, to Cleveland, a team that has championship aspirations, a team that is in a finals or bust type scenario.
Ethan Sands: It was funny to me to like, surf through the social media posts that the Cleveland Cavaliers has posted on their Instagram page. And in the background of Keon Ellis going up against one of the assistant coaches, you just see Kenny Atkinson screaming already. I don’t know what was being said. I don’t know what was going on. All I know is that he can coach these guys a different way from the get go because he knows that they like that kind of aggressiveness, that they don’t have this kind of pushover mentality, that they’re willing to withstand whatever is in front of them, even if that’s their head coach. And that’s particularly for Dennis Schröderr. That’s why I thought it was funny that it was Keon Ellis that was in the image that was getting screamed at that way.
Chris Fedor: The other thing is they both said, look, they understand what the Cavs are. They understand that the Cavs got to the playoffs last year and, and that they’re 30 and 21 right now. So it’s about them trying to fit into the fabric of this team and not shake things up too much. And they said all the same things that DeAndre said last year when he was acquired here. I’m here to do whatever’s best to help this team reach their ultimate goal. I’m here to do whatever it takes for Kenny Atkinson to fit me into the lineup. If I have to play the two, I’ll play the two. If I have to play the one, I’ll play the one. In the case of Schröderr and then Keon Ellis, if I have to play the two, I’ll play the two. If I have to play the three, I’ll play the three. It’s about what’s best for this team and not trying to be disruptive, but trying to be additive.
Ethan Sands: The biggest thing, you mentioned it earlier, just the lineups and combinations that Kenny Atkinson was already working through. DeAndre Hunter wasn’t necessarily fitting in them anyway. So now you trying to find a way to do that with Keon Ellis maybe as you said, playing the three, playing the two, Donovan Mitchell and Sam Merrow obviously being one and twos, but also using Sam Merrow potentially in lineups as a three as Kenny Atkinson has done already this season, Going to four guard lineups and having a big man like Jared Allen to secure the painted area, I think those are all things that we could see and just now like trying to put these things together, the depth in my head trying to figure out where bits and pieces could fall. But we don’t want to do that too quickly, as much fun as it may be. The other thing is the Cavs aren’t done yet and while they’re in Los Angeles, there have been trade rumors that have increased substantially over the last 24 hours as the Cavs have been linked to James Harden with Darius Garland being the main trade piece and in that potential acquisition. Chris, I want to hear it from your mouth. What is going on in Los Angeles and what is the reality that James Harden becomes a Cleveland Cavalier and Darius Garland, who is currently tied with Dean Wade as the longest tenured Cavalier, is no longer wearing the wine and gold?
Chris Fedor: I’ll just say this, Ethan Darius seems to think that he’s not going to be a Cav following the trade deadline. He was here. He was at usc. The Cavs had a practice at USC at the Galen Center. There are a bunch of people that were there that, that he talked to. I talked to those same people and those people relayed to me that Darius said to them that he expects to be a Clipper now. We’ll see. But that tells you just how far along some of these conversations are, that I think Darius is wrapping it around his head that he may have to wear a different jersey than the one that he’s worn throughout his entire career that James Harden is probably trying to process no longer being a Los Angeles Clipper and the possibility of becoming a Cleveland Cavalier. And this all goes to me, this all goes back to last year’s playoff series against the Indiana Pacers and everything that we have talked about since that playoff loss against Indiana. The Cavs came into the season and it was finals or bust. Those were the expectations. There’s pressure, there’s scrutiny. There are expectations. It’s the most expensive roster in the NBA. It’s the only team in the second apron. And I thought what president of basketball operations Kobe Altman said in his press release announcing the move where they sent DeAndre Hunter to Sacramento in a three team trade. I thought what he said was very, very interesting and I thought it was important he said with further clarity on the Eastern Conference landscape. Bingo. Think about that. For the Cavs, this is their shot. They are never going to have a better path to an NBA Finals trip than this year. We’ve talked about that on this podcast. If you look around the Eastern Conference, last year’s boogeyman, the Indiana Pacers does not exist. If you look around the Eastern Conference, the version of the Boston Celtics that the Cavs could not get past does not exist. Jayson Tatum’s not around and he may not come back this season after all because of the Achilles injury. So who are the, the, the main competitors that can keep the Cavs from getting to the NBA Finals? Well, you’ve got the Detroit Pistons who have been the number one seed in the Eastern Conference basically since games started to be played in late October. But they’re flawed. One, are they ready? Do they have a level of readiness across their roster? Do they have a level of playoff experience across their roster? Two, terrible three point shooting team just acquired Kevin Herder for that reason. Three, their half court offense is in the bottom 10 of the NBA. And a lot of these wins that they have piled up here, Ethan Kate Cunningham just willed them to wins in the fourth quarter by taking over and they came through in the clutch and stuff like that. But that can shift drastically, especially when you get into a playoff environment. You don’t have to deal with Giannis. Giannis doesn’t stand in your way of getting to the NBA Finals. Not right now. The Bucks aren’t going to be there. The Knicks are good. Obviously they are a legitimate threat. They were the Eastern Conference co favorite coming into this season. But they’re flawed. Iz went through a really rough patch. They’re still trying to figure out, okay, Cat Brunson, how does that work defensively, Mike Brown, new coach, all those different things, Orlando’s not the team that everybody expected them to be. It just hasn’t worked yet. It has not come together yet. So you’re looking across the Eastern Conference and you’re saying this is our shot. And then if you’re the Cavs, you have an honest evaluation of your own situation and you say to yourself, Donovan’s ready to win a championship. We as an organization are on that same championship timeline. Finals are bust. That’s the situation that we’re in. Second apron, salary cap. Now you look around the locker room and you say is that guy ready to help Donovan chase That championship. Is that guy ready to help Donovan chase that championship? How about that guy? How about that guy? They determined that DeAndre Hunter was not. Now they’re looking around the rest of the roster and saying, is Darius Garland ready to be Donovan Mitchell’s sidekick in a chase for a championship? Is Evan Mobley ready to be Donovan Mitchell’s sidekick in a chase for a championship? And I think, Ethan, there are legitimate questions about the readiness of this roster to compete for a championship in a wide open Eastern Conference. And this is their best path to get to the NBA Finals. So they need to capitalize on that and they need to find pieces that. That are on that same timeline. The Donovan Mitchell timeline. Maybe in a couple of years, Evan Mobley will be ready. Maybe in a couple of years, Darius Garland will be ready. But right now, his toe is still bothering him. The team statistically has been better with him off the floor. And three teams in NBA history, three have won a championship with two guys sharing the same backcourt that are six, three and under. It’s just not easy. Based on their current roster composition, I think there’s some queasiness about their chances of getting out of the Eastern Conference, and I think they’re trying to alleviate those concerns the best that they can, if they can, before the trade deadline on Thursday. So I do think this is a real possibility. I also think it’s not a surprise that the Cavs want some draft compensation from the Clippers in this deal. And why do you think they want draft compensation? Why? Because that’s what Milwaukee wants for Giannis. Like, this isn’t just a conversation. This isn’t just a conversation about James Harden. This isn’t just a conversation about Darius Garland. This is about trying to win a championship. And what have we talked about throughout the course of. Of this year on this podcast? Like, it hasn’t been a situation where the Cavs are like, don’t talk to us about any member of the core four. We’re not listening. No, it’s always been, we’ll consider it for the right pieces. It’s about, can you make an offer to us that is going to get us to say yes? And look, the number of players that the Cavs would say yes to in a Darius Garland deal, I don’t think that’s a big list. The number of players that the Cavs would say yes to in a Jared Allen deal, I don’t think that’s a big list. Same thing when it comes to Evan Mobley. Right, but you might say yes to James Harden, if he comes with a draft pick, too, you might say yes to Giannis. So I think that’s the situation that we’re talking about here. What gives us the best chance? That’s how the Cavs are looking at it. What gives us the best chance to win a championship? And. And if you’re the Cavs and James Harden is available and he is, and Giannis is available and he is, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not look into that, especially when it feels like you may have the pieces and to entice both teams. And those pieces that are coming back to you, you could legitimately say that might make us better, that might increase our championship chances. That might be a way to take a step forward as an organization. So if you’re the Cavs right now and you’re thinking, all right, we’re going to put together the best possible package that we can for Giannis, is it enough to make the Bucks say absolutely, yes. We won’t hold on to Giannis and we won’t extend conversations into next year’s off season? Probably not. But if you get that next first round pick, because right now the Cavs can only offer one first round pick. But if you get that second first round pick from the Clippers and you get a help now piece from James Harden, now all of a sudden you’re in the conversation for Giannis and it’s a different kind of temptation, I think, for a team like the Milwaukee Bucks.
Ethan Sands: You covered a lot there and I know it was a mouthful, but let’s start from the beginning, okay? The portion that I think we need to say flat out, adding James Harden to this team does not make them an NBA championship contender. It doesn’t. It might help them in areas where Darius Garland has been lacking, but James Harden also has a track record of floundering in the playoffs. The other portion is there can only be one basketball. And James Harden is 14th in touches per game in the NBA this season and first in seconds per touch. So we know that he has the ball in his hands a lot. Donovan Mitchell has the ball in his hands a lot. But Giannis Antetokounmpo needs the ball in his hands as well. And I think this is an interesting dynamic because of the trade pieces that would have to be sent not only to the Milwaukee Bucks, but also another third team deal, which is likely the Brooklyn Nets in this situation where Max Trooce could be a piece that gets sent in this particular deal and Lonzo Ball. And I think the other portion of this conversation is that might also be telling about what the Cavs think about Max Struse’s recovery process or what version of Max Sch they would be getting back whenever he comes back to this roster. There’s still the appropriate fear of re aggravation for a Jones fracture that required surgery. And the player that they might have had over the last two seasons might not be the same player they get and or need for a championship caliber run this season. But if James Harden, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Donovan Mitchell are on the same team and you still have Jared Allen as your five man, I think that does push this Cavs team to not only getting out of the Eastern Conference but also contending with Oklahoma City with Denver. And I think that’s the biggest conversation for the Cleveland Cavaliers is okay, James Harden gets us out of the east, how do we win a chip? Because the expectations if they were to pull these moves off to get James Harden to get Giannis onto the coupo would go Chris from They just need to get to the finals finals or bust to championship or bust because of James Harden’s contract potentially wanting to to sign in or be out of his player option contract. That’s up to him after the season and then Giannis and Donovan both having player options for the same season and not necessarily knowing if Giannis is going to want to stay in Cleveland because as much as Giannis has a particular landing spot that he wants, it is not up to Giannis where he ends up.
Chris Fedor: Well, that’s fine, but Donovan Mitchell wanted to be a New York Knick until he didn’t. The Cavs were willing to take that risk. And look, it’s a different situation than than what it was in in 2022. It’s a different time than what it was in 22 and there’s less of a Runway theoretically than what it was in 2022. But the Cavs have become known for taking risks. Kobe Altman has made 30 trades since becoming president of basketball operations or general manager, the guy making the decisions for this organization. And here’s the thing that looms over everything this is about Donovan Mitchell. This is about Donovan Mitchell’s timeline. This is about Donovan Mitchell wanting to win a championship. He has one one more guaranteed season in Cleveland. So one shot before this summer when conversations can pick back up with Donovan about a contract extension. I guess three more months and one playoff run to put the right pieces around Donovan Mitchell so that he can say this is where I need to be. Nowhere else is going to give me a better chance to compete for a championship. That’s the ticking clock for this organization. That’s an element of pressure on this organization. And this isn’t a situation where, like we were talking about this off season where we were coming up, these fake trades for Darius Garland and we were like, maybe, not maybe. Yes, some look better than others. James Harden is better than Darius, period. Now, he’s older, he might have less of a career remaining. He probably does have less of a career remaining depending on what happens with Darius’s toes. But he’s better, he’s bigger, he’s stronger, he’s more mature, he has more experience, he’s a better passer. So the Cavs could actually say to themselves, we’re getting better with this deal. We’re improving our chances of competing for a championship with this deal. Like, this isn’t the hypothetical Jalen Suggs trade that I brought up in the off season. You know what I’m saying? Like, this isn’t the hypothetical Trey Murphy trade that we brought up in the off season. This is a tangible path to an 11 time All Star and a future hall of Famer who is in the middle of a great season for the Clippers. And the other thing that you can say about James Harden, he often wears out his welcome. I think that’s well documented. He often changes his mind about where he ultimately wants to be. But you usually get the best James Harden early in the short term. So he’d be playing next to Donovan Mitchell, theoretically, he would be playing for a contract theoretically. And he would be playing for a championship theoretically. Like, if that’s not the kind of environment that brings out the best version of James Harden, then what does? The other thing is, Darius isn’t healthy right now and there are legitimate questions about, okay, even when he comes back, even when he’s cleared to play again, how effective is he going to be? Is this injury going to linger? Is this injury going to get re injured? So, like, there are so many moving pieces here and there are so many variables and I just don’t think you can ignore some of these things. And for the first time that we’re having like tangible Darius conversations, we know what the offer is and we can actually look at it. And the Cavs front office can actually look at it and say, well, that makes us a better basketball team because James Harden’s just as dynamic offensively as Darius, if not more dynamic. He does it in a different kind of way. But the ceiling that the Cavs would have as, as an offensive team is very similar theoretically to what the ceiling is when, when the Cavs have Darius on the floor and James Harden is, is not Dyson Daniels. James Harden is not like this elite perimeter defensive player. But, but Darius is one of. Statistically, Darius is one of the worst defensive players in the entire NBA. And with him on the floor this season, they have a defensive rating of 1:18, basically, which is terrible. So like, at some point you just can’t ignore those kinds of, those kinds of issues that, that the Cavs continue to run into with, with Darius.
Ethan Sands: All right, Chris, I want to get into the specifics really quickly while I have you, based on what we’ve been seeing and the potential for the trade for Giannis and James Harden.
Chris Fedor: You know the other thing that’s interesting about this, Ethan, The Cavs are an apron team. They’re a second apron team. Yeah, and, and trades are complicated. We just saw it. They had to pull in a third team, they had to incentivize a third team. And it took them hours and days to find that third team that was willing to sacrifice some of their available cap space before the trade deadline. That can get tricky. That can get complicated. Darius and James Harden make essentially the same amount of money that like if there’s a guy for, for a second apron team. Trades are complicated. But if there’s a trade that is pretty straightforward, it’s this one. And I think that’s the other general appeal of, of a potential James Harden trade.
Ethan Sands: Obviously, as you mentioned earlier, the cows would want to receive some draft capital for in return so that they could then turn that and use that for the Giannis onto the Kumpo trade. And here’s something that I’ve been reading. The trade structure that I think would work, could work for all teams involved. Yes, it’s a three team deal. This is after the Cavs have traded Darius Garland for James Harden and acquired an extra pick. Giannis and his brother Thanasis go to Cleveland while Milwaukee gets Lonzo Ball, Evan Mobley, a 2031 first round pick, and Brooklyn Nets forward Jalen Wilson. The Nets acquire Max Strus from the Cavs as well as two pick swaps in 2030, in 2032. And this deal would allow them to have one roster spot available to then sign Naquan Tomlin to a standard deal which we’ve talked about on this podcast at length about them wanting to do that and wanting to have him available in the playoffs. And I think him playing behind Giannis and Jared and, and all these guys would be very helpful to him. But this structure as I’ve been mentioning, allows the Cavs to get off Lonzo Ball, which we’ve been talking about them wanting to do. Max Stru not necessarily being a thousand percent healthy going into the playoffs due to the Jones fracture, depending on how he’s going to return. Darius Garland, who’s had an injury history in the playoffs before and also has been dealing with this toe injury offseason toe surgery on the left great toe, right gray toe sprain that he is dealing with currently, but also not being 100% on the left right toe before entering the right one. So as Chris mentioned and as Chris detailed, just how this Cavs team is preparing for the worst for both of the players that they would be getting off of. So then now obviously Giannis isn’t completely healthy right now, but they would hope to ramp him up to be ready for the playoffs and have him available while stacking wins by leaning on James Harden, Donovan Mitchell, Sam Merrow, Jaylon Tyson, Jarrett Allen. As much as it works in theory, it would still be difficult for me to see it working on the floor just because as I mentioned earlier, there’s one ball, but there would be so much greatness on on the floor that they would have to make it work somehow or they end up looking like the Brooklyn Nets that Kenny Atkinson coached a few years ago where they had James Harden, Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving.
Chris Fedor: I mean, look, it’s, it’s a possibility for the Caps. I, I think we’ll just put it that way. If they’re willing to have those detailed conversations, it’s a possibility. And part of the reason why it’s a possibility is because nobody to this point is blowing away Milwaukee with these offers. If you look at some of the packages that are out there, the Miami Heat package is that one that Milwaukee simply can’t turn down Tyler Hero, Khalil Ware and some other pieces. So like what’s the team that is out there that is going to give Milwaukee the kind of offer that is like we have no choice but to accept this. Which one’s out there? There just isn’t. It doesn’t seem like Houston wants to give up Amend Thompson or Tari Eason or some of the other components to get Giannis there in Houston, it doesn’t seem like San Antonio wants to give up Harper or Vassell plus Stefan Castle. So you start looking at these various options and you’re like, the Cavs could win these sweepstakes. Theoretically, they could win these Giannis sweepstakes if they were motivated enough to do it. Evan Mobley plus a first round pick and another one potentially that could come from the Los Angeles Clippers and a Darius James Harden deal that could win it. That’s the kind of offer that Milwaukee might say, you know what, we’re not waiting until next off season, we’re doing it now. Or like if you’re the Cavs and you don’t want to include Mobley, duh, maybe you say what’s it look like with Jared Allen plus two first round picks plus like other components. Either way, whether it leads to Giannis or not, whether the Cavs are willing to have the conversation about Evan Mobley for Giannis or not, having extra draft capital gives you options and it gives you flexibility and it positions you to make team building type moves that can better your roster. Right now the Cavs can only trade one first round pick. That’s it. And they have a couple of seconds that they can deal as well. But if you’re talking about Giannis, if you’re talking about whoever it may be, those teams theoretically want young up and coming players and draft compensation. Look at what just happened between the Utah Jazz and the Memphis Grizzlies. What was that package for Jaren Jackson Jr. Going to Utah? It was a combination of young players and draft picks. So if you are the Cavs, of course you’re going to try and squeeze a draft pick from the Clippers because that just gives you more, more, more ammunition and another trade asset to potentially dangle. And again, when Giannis is available like he is right now, and you’re a team with championship aspirations and you’re on this specific timeline where you’ve got one guaranteed year left with your star player, you better make sure that you do everything possible to explore any kind of outcome, including one that could land you Giannis, who is one of the most transcendent players of the last decade, who is a two time mvp, who is an NBA champion and is currently one of the three best players in the league who you have seen do it on a postseason stage, just like take over a series. The Cavs owe it to themselves to at least have those conversations. The Cavs owe it to themselves to explore that possibility.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I think you’re right. I think these moves could be hand in hand. It could be separate. Who knows? We’ll have to wait and see. But the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Los Angeles Clippers likely want to make this decision before having to play each other Wednesday night. Although Thursday is the deadline. It might be a little awkward to do it that way. And don’t even forget that the Cavs will have to play De’Andre Hunter, who they just traded away on Saturday in Sacramento. I don’t know why Kobe Altman in the Cavs front office decided to do it this way, or who knows if they if they even look this far into the schedule. But this might be the most awkward 72 hours the Cavs have had in quite some time. But we’ll wait and see if the Cavs end up making these moves while they’re hypothetical. Right now, at this very moment, at 6:41pm Eastern Time on Tuesday, literally in five minutes or 10 minutes, something could change.
Chris Fedor: There’s a reason why the Cavs did the trade, the DeAndre Hunter trade in advance. There’s a reason why they scoured the league for a third team to get involved in that, to finalize that deal in advance, and it wasn’t so that Keon Ellis and Dennis Schröderr would be available for a game against the Los Angeles Clippers on Wednesday night.
Ethan Sands: Good point. All right, this is going to be exciting. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can set in your weekly hey Chris questions or get updates as soon as news hits. This is where we send in direct insight based on trades, based on possibilities, based on hypotheticals that we are hearing from sources around the league and close to the team. But you can only get this information by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and and Jimmy. This isn’t Jazzar podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.