CLEVELAND, Ohio — Welcome to this week’s post-Groundhog Day edition of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In this week’s episode, they talk about the Browns’ introductory press conference Tuesday for coach Todd Monken.
Also, they discuss the Cavs and their blockbuster trade for James Harden; and fans have some questions about the Guardians and their offseason approach when it comes to free agents.
Highlights:
• Player feedback demanding “accountability” became a central pillar in the Browns’ decision to hire Todd Monken.
• Terry cites a history of high pre-snap penalties as a key indicator of the team’s lack of discipline under the previous regime.
• The hiring of Monken is described as a “pendulum swing” from a meticulously organized coach to an accountability-first, hard-nosed leader.
• Monken presented an intense, all-or-nothing approach, stating anything that gets in the way of winning will be “discarded and eliminated.”
• The Browns are poised for a significant youth movement, driven by ten draft picks, and are expected to have one of the youngest teams in the NFL.
• A full offensive line rebuild is considered necessary, posing a challenge to the team’s youth-focused strategy.
• Monken plans to hold players accountable by aligning team standards with the players’ own stated individual goals.
• Monken’s surprisingly dismissive comments about defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz creates uncertainty about his future with the team.
• Why retaining a resentful Schwartz could create “internal discord” and dysfunction on the coaching staff.
• Monken’s career path is viewed as a series of calculated moves designed to position himself for an NFL head coaching job.
• The Cavaliers acquired James Harden from the Clippers in a blockbuster trade that sent Darius Garland to Los Angeles.
• The Harden-Garland swap is characterized as a “desperation trade” between two teams eager to resolve difficult player situations.
• Harden’s primary motivation for forcing the trade was reportedly financial, stemming from the Clippers’ unwillingness to fully guarantee his contract.
• Harden’s history as a difficult teammate and poor defender presents a significant risk for the Cavaliers.
• The Cavaliers are gambling on Harden’s short-term performance to improve their immediate playoff prospects, a move star player Donovan Mitchell supported.
• A fan questions the Guardians’ contradictory risk management, noting they avoid financial risk in free agency but embrace the risk of relying on unproven prospects.
• Monken’s comments about his childhood sparks a nostalgic conversation about vintage sports board games like vibrating football and Strat-O-Matic.
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If you have a question or a topic, or a story about a childhood sports game you used to play, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line for an upcoming podcast.
You can find previous podcasts below.
Also, a transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it may contain many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell: Hey, welcome to this week’s edition of Terry’s talking podcast, the Post Groundhog Day edition. Terry, we’re taping this on Wednesday, February 4th, around noon. You have been going crazy between Cavs and Browns, and I know you were at the Monken press conference yesterday, and. And the Cavs are just going bonkers, bonkers here before the trade deadline. I guess we’ll start with the Browns, huh? It was a pretty interesting scene out there in Berea yesterday.
Terry Pluto: Why don’t you.
David Campbell: Yeah, why don’t you talk about what you saw and kind of some impressions that you left and came home with? Yeah.
Terry Pluto: By the way, first time ever been at a football press conference where the owner got asked an NBA question.
David Campbell: Yeah, that was crazy. Hey, Jimmy Haslam was asked about the Bucks and Giannis and the whole.
Terry Pluto: I mean, you what that reminded me. I meant to put this in my newsletter, didn’t. But that was the classic thing of welcome to modern sports franchise ownership, because Jimmy owns 25% of the Milwaukee Bucks. They have three other owners who also own 25%. And it’s a weird setup where every four years somebody else is called governor or basically the majority owner, and it keeps switching. Well, I think Jimmy’s year is this year, so I guess you could ask him about trading Giannis to a team, and he was asked that. Of course, he dodged it, which was smart. But, you know, he’s introducing an NFL coach and being talked about being asked about trading one of the NBA’s top players. That’s the thing to keep in mind when Dave Blitzer, as he continues to, I think, accumulate a little more interest in the Guardians, is that just because he owns them doesn’t mean it’s going to be a massive influx of money. I mean, his group owns the New Jersey Devils. They own the Washington Commanders, they own the Philadelphia 76ers. They own a piece of the Guardians, they own a bunch of soccer teams. These guys, they just look at this as like another chip and their pile of things they own, of course they own real estate. They try to get in the stadium business and everything else.
David Campbell: Well, and the reason they have money is because all the businesses that they start, the intent is for them to make money. Like, even though they have money, the way they keep their money money is by making more money. So they won’t tolerate things losing money. And so I think you’re right, Terry, but with the Guardians, like, we might not see.
Terry Pluto: It could get a little better, but it’s not going to be anything that suddenly they’re spending in the top 10. I just don’t see that.
David Campbell: All right, let’s go back to Todd Monkey. So he’s going to be 60 tomorrow on February 5th. And boy, he’s been a coach for the better part of four decades. And I know you, you came away with some interesting yesterday, especially about Jimmy Haslam and why Todd Monkin was their guy. But anyway, there’s a lot there to go through. Why don’t you kind of talk about what you saw And I want to get back to a question you asked Todd Monkin specifically in a few minutes.
Terry Pluto: Okay. Well, a couple. So I’m listening to Jimmy do his press conference and he says JW, which is JW Johnson, his son in law and managing partner. JW and myself interviewed 30 or 40 players in the postseason. That was after the announcement about Kevin. I think we really got good feedback offensively and defensively about what we needed. And I thought, well, okay. But then he said, I think all of us who have run organizations understand you have to have accountability. And As I mentioned, JW and I interviewed or spent time with 30 or 40 of our employers. I said, give me one common word, what’s needed. And they said, more accountability. That stuck with us. Zap. And I said, you know, most Browns family probably agree lack of discipline. You know my, one of my things is the pre snap penalties. Actually this year was a good year for Kevin in that regard. Pre snap penalties are guys jumping off sides. Too many men, the field, illegal motion, all the things that like Eric Imagini used to say just drives you nuts because you can avoid, you can avoid them. But when you look at the six years of Stefanski, the Browns twice had the most. Once had the second most and another time in the third most. So four out of the six years they were in the top three pre snap penalties this past season they were ninth and one other time they were 19th. And I do think that it is a thing that shows a lack of maybe discipline, accountability, I don’t know. But I was trying to figure out how do you kind of measure that? But that’s one statistic there and coaches can change this. I remember when Eric Mangini came in in 2009 and 10 and he took over for Romeo Cornell and immediately the Browns went from being one of the most penalized teams to one of the least. Greg Williams even did it in the middle of the 2018 season when he took over for Hugh Jackson. So it can be done. That’s something I’m going to be watching with Monk and will this be done? Will this get better?
David Campbell: Yeah. So we’ve been around enough to see coaching and manager changes. Right, Terry? And it’s like the pendulum swings based on what the last guy was. And it’s like, you think back to Freddy Kitchens and the Browns were like going for fast and loose creativity. We want to score points and have an offense that’s entertaining to watch. But it was totally disorganized.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: There was just like dysfunction. People weren’t in the right meetings. No. There was no delegation. It was just a. It was just a mess. And so who did they bring in? Like Kevin Stefanski, who is like the king of organization, where everything is just planned and meticulously prepared and. But maybe the accountability wasn’t there and the discipline like you’re talking about. So now like the pendulum swings back over to this accountability thing. And I, you know, they always talk about coaches winning the press conference, but I, like, I totally get the sense with Todd Monk. And I think the Brown social media team posted a thing. They were driving around with him and they asked him, like, what do you. What did you like to do in Cleveland when you were here last time? And he talked about, like, nothing.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And his thing was, I am either at the office relentlessly pursuing victories, or I leave town because I can’t be here and not be thinking about how we’re going to win football games. And so when I was here and when I’m going to be here now, I’m either going to be at the office making us better and getting us victories, or I’m leaving town.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. It’s just.
David Campbell: And like his whole thing is like, anything that gets in the way of winning football games will be discarded and eliminated. And I think that’s what the Browns need right now. Right. Like, this is if you’re not doing the job, you’re not playing. If you’re getting pre snap penalties, you’re not playing, there’s going to be repercussions. This is getting in the way of us winning and it’s going away. It’s. We’re stopping it right now.
Terry Pluto: But if.
David Campbell: I think that’s what Jimmy Haslam was getting at when he was talking about that. Right.
Terry Pluto: The interesting part, even if it was only 20 guys and not 30 or 40, bringing up this lack of accountability, that’s very meaningful and also somewhat alarming. And so I think, you know, just like we saw Jerry Judy sometimes, whether it’s running wrong routes or pouting, you know, that kind of stuff, there was really not much repercussion for that and I’m sure there’s some other things that come to mind that or slipping my mind at the moment. But so. But that jumped out and I didn’t see really much of anybody else make a whole lot of it, but I did.
David Campbell: All right. And I guess the other thing was there was a lot of discussion about the Browns getting younger.
Terry Pluto: Right.
David Campbell: And it was very matter of fact the way they were discussing it. Right.
Terry Pluto: I mean, Barry said the Browns are probably going to have the youngest team in the league this season. And you know, almost like, okay, so today’s Wednesday. I’m like, oh really? I didn’t think that was on the horizon. So I followed up with a question with him. He said, well, we’re just projecting based on the amount of draft sources we have, resources we have and just kind of anticipating free agency. You know, we have a very young defense and we can anticipate having a very young team. And then he talked about how they have a bunch of picks in the top 10 of their of their 10 selections, eight are in the top 150. I always like when they say that, well, you might as well top 150. It’s more relevant. They have three in the top 39. But anyway, we’re probably going to be one of the youngest teams in the league. You know, they’re going to draft these guys and, and we’ll see. And they’re, you know, in terms of free agency, they’re going to go. They’re not going to be bringing in older guys. Now I want to see, by the way, David, how they’re going to redo the whole line without bringing in some older guys to kind of fill. Fill some of those. Don’t they. They need five. Five players on the offensive line.
David Campbell: Well, the. I think we’ve mentioned this before but like finding centers and guards who are veteran offensive linemen is probably one of the easier positions to fill when you’re looking in free agency. But like they, I would not be surprised if they draft two tackles offensive tackles this year. Right. And maybe Duan Jones is the swing tackle or maybe dejuan Jones can stay healthy and start and one of the rookies is one is the swing tackle. But that, that those edges have got to be secured and then who knows what’s going to happen with Joel Batonio and we’ll see what happens with the three spots on the inside. But at least they have that going for them that I think you can. Those aren’t premium positions necessarily centers and guards and you can get a good, experienced guy for not a ton.
Terry Pluto: And that may be the exceptions. But I just. Those are the two things that jumped out at me, just kind of listening to this, that other than, you know, some of the obvious and, you know, I think you go back when you’re 8 and 26 over the last two years, you’ve, after trading six picks to Houston from between 22 and 24, you know, including your first pick every year. I mean, this is still the last part of the Watson tariff. And by the way, I called it the Watson tariff going back to 2022 when the trade was made. So it has nothing to do with who, what president is tariffing anybody. I always, I mean, I was a political science, social. Social studies major, English minor. So I was very aware of terrorists going back to the Smoot Hartley act and some of these other things. So Smoot and Hartley might be in the draft coming up. I’m not sure, but.
David Campbell: Oh, yeah, very highly rated.
Terry Pluto: Highly rated. All right, so that’s. Those are a couple things. So what jumped out at you?
David Campbell: I. Yeah, I, I think this was a question that you asked about the turning around a losing operation. And his response was perseverance. Right. And winning is hard, but the reward is unbelievable. It’s fourth and one every day. And I was very interested in kind of how he talked about how he holds players accountable. And there’s a lot of coaches who be like, you’re doing it because I say to do it right, which is old school football coach kind of approach. But he said that the way to hold players accountable is you ask them what they’re. What do they want? Like, what are their aspirations? I want a new contract or I want to win. And he said that players have individual aspirations, but they also have team aspirations. And that is the standard. I mean, it’s Mike Tomlin. The standard is the standard. But if somebody’s not doing what needs to be done, it’s like, hey, you said you wanted this and you’re not making this happen, so what are we going to do about that? And I thought that was an interesting connection that he makes where it’s like the, the standard is the standard because the players say it’s the standard, not because the coach is like, this is what we’re doing.
Terry Pluto: And I thought that was an interesting way to go about it, that winning really does pay off. Winning and sacrifice does pay off because the teams that do win, they’re very talented. But when you start separating, you know, good from great or whatever, oftentimes sacrifices Involve, too. And you have to show the guy that even though you’re not getting as many receptions as somebody else or what, you’re still. The fact that we’re going to be in the. The final four, whatever it is that, you know you can, it’ll pay off for you.
David Campbell: All right, so we need to talk about Jim Schwartz. Right? I mean, it’s hard to say, but the way that Todd Monken talked about Jim Schwartz yesterday, it was pretty much like, I don’t. Like, I don’t care if you come back. Yeah, if you read between the lines, that was it. It’s like, if you want the job, great, let’s talk. If you don’t, I’ll find somebody else. Here was the quote from Todd Monken when he was asked about Jim Schwartz. And he was asked a couple times, including by you, a big reason why.
Terry Pluto: I was the first one to ask him if he wanted to talk about it. I knew he wouldn’t, but I figured I’d ask it anyway.
David Campbell: Yeah, go ahead. He basically said, a big reason why I took this job was the defensive players. I didn’t take this job because of Jim Schwartz. I have a lot of respect for Jim Schwartz, as I would hope he has for me. And then he went on to talk about how he would game plan for the Browns, and he didn’t have to block Jim Schwartz. And it was. It was just a very backhanded way to do it. If he does want Jim Schwartz around, he sure didn’t show it.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, I thought he could have handled that better. I really do. Even if you don’t want him, But I think this is what you’re going to get with Monk, and you’re probably going to get what he’s thinking. And he’s thinking, if. What’s the. What’s the Mike Tomlin line? You know, I don’t want hostages. I want volunteers. And if you don’t want to be here, you know, we’ll find somebody else who does, because a split in your coaching staff would not be good. That’s why I wrote him that they need to really get to the bottom of where Jim is with all this stuff and find out, because sometimes we just get upset. Then you think about it. But simply throwing a bunch of money at him and then saying. And he says, well, I’ll come back for the money. It’s got to be more than that. I mean, really, Jim has a chance. I think if he comes back with that good defense that he has, if the team just even gets a little better, it might put him on the radar for somebody else as a head coach. See, that’s where team goals and individual goals can come together. But if he’s just going to keep looking at Todd Monk and be seething that I didn’t get that job, it’s not a good deal.
David Campbell: Yeah, and this was. I mean, this was a public opportunity for Todd Monk, and if he did want to kind of make things smooth over with Jim Schwartz, to be like, listen, he’s one of the best in the business. We really need him back. I really hope we can. I hope we can retain him and make him stay. And then there would have been discussions before the press conference, but, like, everybody was listening to that and watching it yesterday.
Terry Pluto: And the other thing, including the players.
David Campbell: You know, I basically said, yeah, we don’t need this guy.
Terry Pluto: More importantly, he says, I didn’t take the shot for Jim Schwartz. I took the job. That’s the exact quote, you know, because of the players, you know, I. And when I was coordinating against them, you know, I wasn’t thinking about Jim Schwartz. I was thinking about how to chip Miles Garrett. You know, when do we go after Denzel Ward? In other words, he was talking about the players. Now, I’m not sure what the message there was, but it was something. And I know this. I don’t want, quote, unquote, internal discord. Remember, that infamous line by Haslam was what he rolled out when they fired Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley, and all of a sudden, Greg Williams became the head coach, and out of nowhere, Freddy Kitchens now was an offensive genius. And so they. But that was to get rid of internal discord, which actually, it worked. Greg Williams brought order. He was the defensive coordinator. Freddy had some nice plays and things for Baker Mayfield. Back in 2018, when you look at it, he stopped getting sacked as much. They ran the ball more. But then 2019, they didn’t even bring Williams back in any capacity, and they put Freddy in charge, and chaos reigned. And Todd Monkin came in as offensive coordinator, and basically, I don’t know what he did besides look at film and do a press conference once a week.
David Campbell: Yeah, he didn’t do much coordinating.
Terry Pluto: He certainly wasn’t consulted much. And it is interesting to me how he took that job, because he had been at Tampa Bay, and even though the coaching staff got fired there, the offense had been good with him. But apparently, I think he believed I could go to Cleveland because in 2018, Baker Mayfield had a big year. I could go to Cleveland, have another big year with Baker, and that would Put me on the road that I want to be, which is to become an NFL coach. I thought the emotion he showed about getting that job and everything was. It was pretty. Pretty interesting. The last coach I saw that cried in the day he was hired was Dennis Gates at Cleveland State. In fact, he was so emotionally there. I’m like, watching this going, I hope this guy’s going to be okay when he coaches.
David Campbell: I mean, that’s a great point, because you see these coaches, and a lot of them are. They try to be very sterile in their approach and not show any emotion. But, I mean, Todd Monkin talked about how he called a bunch of NFL coaches and was like, listen, I want to be a head coach in the NFL. What’s the best way for me to do that? Do I stay in college and try to become a hot name? And they all told him, you need to be back in the NFL.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Your point, Terry? That’s why he has done what he’s done, is why he left himself in position.
Terry Pluto: I mean, he left Southern Miss after his, I believe, third year there, and because he took a team that hadn’t won a game. And I think then he had one win and, like, four wins, and then he went nine and five. And then he left Southern Miss for Tampa Bay as offensive coordinator. Then when Tampa Bay fired their staff, he came to Cleveland as offensive coordinator. But in 2020, when he suddenly kind of had fallen out of favor, Georgia rolled in, offered him a lot of money. And I think he thought, you know, I could go and win a lot of games in Georgia, maybe get back in the league. But he could have stayed at Georgia forever as long as Kirby Smart was there. And he. After three years, two national titles, I think you realize, if I’m ever getting back in the NFL, it’s now on top of that, John Harbaugh wants me, and I’m getting Lamar Jackson. So he was very calculating for his own career. And I’m not knocking that. I mean, I made several moves early on in my career when I was working through the south to throw up the Baltimore to Cleveland to get what I wanted, which is basically what I’ve had for many decades now in Northeast Ohio. I’m not knocking that, but I’m saying that that’s how he sees it. And I believe that’s why what he’s going to try to do is blend individual goals with team goals for players.
David Campbell: All right, anything else on Todd Monkin.
Terry Pluto: We should cover here and to follow up on that. So in other words, if Todd Monkin Goes and has a great offense at Georgia or a great offense at Baltimore, and he wins with that. He wins, too, because suddenly he has a chance to become a head coach. So it’s intertwined together, but in terms of, you know, the rest of it, you know, we’ll see who they hire or what they’re going to do. I’m just, you know, I’m just glad they’re going. How do you feel about Monkin?
David Campbell: Well, just to close my thought real quick, like, there’s only 32 of these jobs, and when a guy gets one of them and it’s been his lifelong dream, you can see what it means to him. And I guess what I was trying to say a minute ago is, like, a lot of these guys are like, I’m happy with where I’m at. I let you know, I’m here to. I’m focused on the next game and stuff. But when they want to be head coaches, like, it is a dream and you could see the emotion. But I think this is a fascinating hire to me, and I think it’s. I can’t wait to see it unfold because the accountability thing is going to be something we can see on the field every single week. Right. I’ll be watching. I want to see how that unfolds. But I did want to ask Terry, I think you probably noticed this, too, but the fans, Browns fans seem like they were, oh, why didn’t we get one of the young hotshot guys when Todd Monkin was named? But I feel like they’ve kind of warmed up to him a little bit. And I know you’re. One of your things is like, hey, give the guy a chance. And I know you. You thought Jim Schwartz should have gotten the job and. But you’re thinking about, give him a chance. And have you noticed the fans warming up to him as the days have gone along here?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, I think it has. Well, first of all, I think a lot of them didn’t know him. We can pretend that everybody’s just following all this stuff like we do, but they’re not. People listening to this, you have wives, you got kids, you got elderly people you’re taking care of. You got budgets to meet and cars to get fixed and health issues to deal with. So I can’t sit there and say, well, I know a lot about Todd Monkitt. That’s why I think once people began to look at it and the Browns did a pretty good job of selling him on all the quarterbacks he’s had and making the case for them and so that’s. I didn’t want one of the young whiz kids. I just think this is such a hard job here. That’s why I wanted Schwartz or Monkin. And I also. I would have said they needed to be more accountable, and I think either one of those guys will do that. So I was fine together. But if they don’t, if there’s problems with them working together at all, then I would just. I would, frankly, I just let Schwartz go somewhere else if he wants to. I know he’s a great coordinator, but still forcing him here. And I wouldn’t do the. Well, you could just sit home and not get paid for the next two years with your contract. I wouldn’t do that.
David Campbell: Yeah, I don’t think he’d want that either. I think he. He doesn’t have a lot of coaching years left, and I think he’ll want.
Terry Pluto: To be back in it.
David Campbell: But I just don’t see. After reading between the lines yesterday, I just do not see him being in Cleveland.
Terry Pluto: My guess is that I see thing between the two of them has not melted. You know, the two of them being the Browns, not necessarily Monk and the Browns and Schwartz and, you know, Schwartz and Monka were almost in the same exact place in Life. They’re both 60. They’re both looking for one last shot. It’s like the game of musical chairs. You know, the music stops. There’s these two guys. There’s one chair left, and the other guy who doesn’t get it. There’s no more chairs this year. And that’s what happened. I mean, Jim had one head coaching interview in the last three years or probably more. He’s there because that was with Baltimore this year, and it was the zoom call one. It wasn’t the real, real one.
David Campbell: All right, well, we’ll see what happens there. I just would really be surprised if he’s coaching the Brentwood with the Browns in the fall.
Terry Pluto: So, you know, but I’m. I’m. My view is always, let’s just see what he can do. I learned this a long time ago. I don’t bury most of the hyrules. Unless the guy has just been a disaster somewhere, then that’s a different. And you look at it like Freddy Kitchens. If you go back and look at it, just all the chaos he had here. I remember his first game, he had like 14 penalties and just that. That, you know, that’s just not going to work.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Somewhere.
David Campbell: All right, should we. Do you want me to run through the coaching lists as we’re getting near the end here for sure. All the teams in the NFL that had openings. All right, so the John Harbor.
Terry Pluto: You’re gonna have to help me on some of these guys because I look at these names and I’m like, I don’t know. Go ahead.
David Campbell: Oh, no, we don’t need to go in depth on all my. Should be a good kind of way to wrap up where things are at here. So the Giants have hired John Harbaugh, Kevin Stefanski to the Falcons, Jeff Halfley to the Dolphins, Robert Sala to the Titans.
Terry Pluto: I’m going to stop because periodically we’re going to run into a guy that was on that Mike Patton coaching staff.
David Campbell: That’s right.
Terry Pluto: It’s incredible who was on that staff. A lot of those guys. Halfway was one. Keep going. All right.
David Campbell: Robert Salad of the Titans, Joe Brady to the Bills. Promoting from within. Jesse Minter to the Ravens. Mike McCarthy to the Steelers, Todd Monken to the Browns. The Raiders are the last team to hire, and it looks like they’re waiting on Clint Kubiak to get out of the Super Bowl. When they’ll be. That’ll probably happen next week. I’m guessing after the game. And then Michael Lafleur with Cardinals, and.
Terry Pluto: I believe he passed through. Yeah, he passed through here. I think he did. Yeah.
David Campbell: And two brothers coaching in the NFL at the same time does not happen very often. I think the Harbaughs are the only other ones.
Terry Pluto: In other words, what you talk about the family business. There’s 32 jobs and four of them belong to two brothers.
David Campbell: That’s right. One eighth our brothers coaching. So it’s Matt LaFleur and Michael Flor and then. And then John and Jim Harbaugh.
Terry Pluto: So, I mean, when you go there, maybe. I mean, some of these guys might be good, they might not. A mentor was interesting to me because he had a longer background with Harbaugh and that’s probably why the Ravens hired him because I think he worked for both Harvls at one point or another. So we’ll see how it goes.
David Campbell: Cool. All right, well, let’s stop here for a minute. We’ll pay some bills. Terry. And we come back, we have a lot to discuss with the newest Cleveland Cavalier, Mr. James Harden. So we’ll get into that and more when we return on Terry’s Talking. All right, we’re back on Terry’s Talking. Terry, we got a bunch of emails that have been backing up. I. Maybe next week what we’ll do is I’ll try and run through all those. We’ve had so much news to talk about on the podcast last couple weeks. We haven’t gotten to the email so we’ll try and do a mostly email edition next week are going. So.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. So.
David Campbell: All right. Some more.
Terry Pluto: We could do a Harry Terry and that’ll work.
David Campbell: Yeah, that’s right.
Terry Pluto: Hey, Dave. Sports questions ask Dave.
David Campbell: That’s right.
Terry Pluto: By the way, Dave.
David Campbell: Yes.
Terry Pluto: Were you, what time were you refereeing a hockey game last night?
David Campbell: 10:15Pm it was over around 11:30. Is that a high school adult league? It’s an adult, yeah. Yeah. So I got home a little before midnight. Yeah, it’s nice. It was nice. It’s nice to get out when the weather is not great. So.
Terry Pluto: And I know also the ice time is hard always to get. So.
David Campbell: Yeah, if anybody wants to do like an ask the ref Hal Lebovitz type thing on hockey, I can try and answer some questions. I’m sure we’ll get flooded.
Terry Pluto: Offensive line is your thing too, so.
David Campbell: That’s right. All right. So The Cavaliers are 30 and 21. They’re tied for fourth in the east right now and they look a lot different, Terry, than they did a few weeks ago. Not only do they have Dennis Schroeder and Keone Ellis, but last night we learned that they have traded for James Harden and Darius Garland is now a player for the LA Clippers. James Harden will be coming here. There’s so much to go through here. But I guess the question I want to ask right off is, do you feel like the Cavs are better now in terms of what they can do in the playoffs than they were a few weeks ago?
Terry Pluto: The answer to that is yes. Would I rather have Dennis Schroeder, Keon Ellis and James Harden than Darius Garland and DeAndre Hunter? Absolutely. I would rather have that. Now that and I like Schroeder especially even though this is his 11th team. It’s pretty amazing. But he’s a hard nosed guard. I would have loved to have had seen him on the team a year ago when Indiana was pressuring them in the backcourt and everything because Schroeder, Schroeder’s kind of the Indiana kind of player. He’s in your face and I don’t mean he’s dirty, but he’s, you know, he’ll bring the ball up and, and probably take some bad shots, but he’ll also just go at you with aggressively. Keenan Ellis, I don’t know well, but some people that I do know say that he’s an he’s a very good 64 on the ball defender. He has shot the ball better from three point range in the past than this year. But if you think about it with the how Kenny Atkins has been trying to transform the team to be more aggressive, more defensive oriented, you know, with playing Naquan Tomlin, playing Jalen Tyson, basically starting Craig Porter Jr even Tyrese Proctor to an extent, just to get more athletic, younger and just more defense. So all that fit. Now of course the big thing everybody wants to talk about is Harden and I’ll let you go first, David.
David Campbell: Well, this is going to be. You’ve written about this, Terry. He’s not a great teammate, he’s a terrible defender. I mean some of the most incredible defensive lack of effort videos you’ll ever see on YouTube have James Harden in them.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: And I just, I think Kenny Atkinson is going to have a real challenge getting production out of him in a number of ways. And I don’t know how to go about that. You start with a clean slate and you see what happens. But you know he’s healthy and he can give you some minutes and some instant points. And you couldn’t say the same about Darius Garland. Like who knows when he was going to be healthy. Who knows what he was going to give you in the playoffs. And one thing you know for sure is that, and you’ve written about this for years, Terry, that backcourt is so short with him back there and now they’re not so short with, with Ellis. I mean being 64 and very in your face. I just think the complexion of the Cavs perimeter defense will change dramatically with Ellis out there. Even if Garland was healthy, it’s, it’s a vast improvement and as we’ve seen the last couple weeks, defense, defensive effort and defensive efficiency have helped the Cavs put this winning run together. So.
Terry Pluto: And they also been getting the ball inside more that now. I didn’t like the trade. It was very clear. I just, yes, James Harden’s a better player than Darius Garland at the moment, that’s for sure. And James Harden can. I mean he’s going to go in the hall of fame, he’s 11 time all star. But for me, some things are just like I just can’t handle it mentally, you know, for that. But this is the fourth time in six years that he’s asked for a trade and other times he just like you left the team for a couple of games there. Now you’re going to hear some revisionist history coming up that, oh well, really this is like The Clippers idea and they need to get younger and that it is not the Clippers idea to push Harden out the door after they just won 17 to 21 games and we’re making a march towards the playoffs. Now. This was done by him, orchestrated by him, because he was unhappy that the Clippers were not going to pick up his contract for next year. The full value of it, it’s like 40 some million and only 13 million guaranteed. And he wanted the whole thing. Of course, you go back to, well, why did you sign a contract like that? With that you’re a star player three years ago, why not get the whole thing guaranteed? But he didn’t. And this follows a pattern for him. The other pattern, this is what the Cavs are banking on, is generally when he goes to a new team, he plays well in the short term. And I think they decided who are we better off with in the playoffs, Harden or Garland? They take their chance with Harden. I mean, I wish they could have found somewhere else to move Garland. I just, I wouldn’t have made the trade. I just, I just think that Harden, he can be very selfish both on the court and off. He also can be very charming. He could be a really good team player when he wants to. And I think that’s what the Cavs are banking on. I just wouldn’t have done it. I don’t know if they had any other possibility for Garland, but it’s an interesting thing. It’s like two teams at high price point guards and they were both desperate to get rid of them, so they just traded their desperation. They really did.
David Campbell: That’s a great way to put it. A desperation.
Terry Pluto: Desperation means desperation. You get this trade because clearly if you’re the Clippers and you got a guy who’s made 11 all star teams, has had a pretty good year again, you would think you get more than Darius Garland with his turf toe and then the other foot hurting. And then you would think if you were Cavaliers with Garland, who’s made two all star teams and actually a year ago, until he hurt his foot, was really having, I would say the best year of his career, you would think he’d be able to get more than an aging James Harden with all his baggage. But in the end, this is what you got and that’s what they did.
David Campbell: So it’s really interesting. I think you had this in your column, Terry. I think he Hardin did an interview with Ramona Shelburne from espn like a.
Terry Pluto: Couple weeks ago, three weeks ago, he was la.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: Being at home, I’M blessed.
David Campbell: Opportunity of lifetime for me, just being able to move in front of my family, friends, people I grew up with, people that raised me. It’s a different feeling. I’m from LA and I’m blessed to be here. And then three weeks later, let’s say he gives up his no trade. I mean, he agrees to, he had to agree to this trade for it to happen. So why like. So here, here’s what I’m going through in my head. Like the reason you just laid out. He’s hoping the Cavs will pick up the whole contract next year. And the. And he wants to win like I want to win. I want to have a good chance of winning a championship. But I think it’s more the first one. Right.
Terry Pluto: Because they’re money, money. It’s like this song. Money, money, money. It’s about money. If the Clippers had agreed to pick up that full year, I don’t think we, we wouldn’t be talking about James Harden. But I think it’s also interesting that the Clippers decided even though they were on this rise up, that it wasn’t even worth guaranteeing that season for him for next year just to keep him happy. Which tells me that there was other stuff going on, as there usually is with James Harden. I mean, one of the times he demanded a trade, what that was when he was at Brooklyn, that led to the Cavs getting Jared Allen. It was a four way deal and I forgot they, they sent a draft pick or something over there. So. Is there a tremendous downside for the Cavs? Probably not, because Garland was not going to play very well if he plays at all, depending upon how this foot thing goes. But I just hate bringing that whole element of Harden in. And I have to admit, his stats are good over. I don’t like watching him play. I mean, he dominates the ball on that. Now I’ve been told Donovan Mitchell’s all in on this, that he knew the trade was coming and he was all in. And maybe it was because he’s thinking, well, I don’t know if Darius can go. I’m in the backcourt doing all this work, you know, maybe Harden could help me. And also I mentioned Harden could be very charming. Now we have to watch all of a sudden, the same person, Ramona Sheldon, he talked to her and yet another interview yesterday and kind of made it like, well, this is all the Clippers idea. And you know, he’s just trying to help, help them along here. Yeah. And so, you know, he’s liable to say whatever it is, but he’s. He’s offered James Harden. Now, what we talked about earlier, if we could match the self interest with the team interest in a short term thing, maybe it’ll pay off. And I think that’s where the Cavs were. The Cavs have zero confidence in Garland doing anything in the postseason for them. So why not try Harden? Of course Harden has this horrible record of games, performances in elimination games, I mean, just really bad. And I put some of those out there and I find that odd because some of the games, like you would take eight shots or something. They were just not like him either. So we’ll see how all this plays out.
David Campbell: So on the court, Terry, what is the best case scenario here? What does that look like and what is the worst case scenario when you’re watching the games and James Hard is on this roster when he. I’ve seen both extremes.
Terry Pluto: First of all, he’s very good when the moon strikes him and getting the ball with big men, he’s a good passer. The players in the post and looking for big guys. So when he’s, when he’s cooking, watch that. Is he getting the ball, the big man, that kind of stuff. Secondly, can he at least put token defense out there? Will he do that? And then also how are he and Donovan going to play together? We’ve talked about in the past Donovan and Darius, but again, if anybody, there aren’t too many people that will have higher usage than Donovan and Darius in the NBA. But for the most part, that’s Jared. Excuse me, that’s Harden. And meanwhile, I was starting to say Jared Allen because he could benefit for this if he’s really, as we saw the other night, the 40 points and 17 rebounds. My goodness, can. Can something like that happen again? I mean, start scoring in the 20, especially with Mobley out for a while. So that’s what you look. And if, and then if he cops an attitude, then you’ll know, you’ll see it. He’s disappearing, he doesn’t look happy. That kind of stuff. A lot of dribbling, nobody moving.
David Campbell: And maybe less playing time as a result.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, you know, it was on the spot. One guess. Kenny.
David Campbell: Kenny, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Terry Pluto: All right, Kenny, here you are. And you know they desperately want to get to the Final Four. So Donovan Mitchell, who’s been, I think in the league eight years, always made the playoffs, never got out of the second round. So this is part of that to try and help that Donovan is eligible to sign an Expand. Excuse. Excuse me, extension this summer. And I think that’s what they’ll want to do. So they want to take a shot at that. I’m curious to know, David, did the Cavs make Harden any promises? They won’t say anything, but I just wonder if they promised to pick up that full salary for next year. Now, the Cavs probably figured out, yeah, I’m not buying into the benevolent James Harden or.
David Campbell: If this goes well and we make it to the Final Four, we will pick it up. Right? If this. If you do your end of the bargain.
Terry Pluto: Something, something.
David Campbell: Yeah, yeah. You do your part, we’ll do ours. We’ll meet you halfway. And pick.
Terry Pluto: Harden, by the way, had to waive two and a half million dollars. He had a trade bonus thing. He had to waive that to make this work on the. On the cap. So.
David Campbell: Interesting.
Terry Pluto: So we’ll see how it is. I think Kenny’s on the spot. See how he works this. Because clearly this was not on their radar screen that big until yesterday. Because you. I don’t think you trade for two guards with Schroeder and Ellis on. What day was that? Monday. If you knew on Tuesday you’re trading for James Harden, I don’t think you would have done that.
David Campbell: Really?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. Because how many guards do you need?
David Campbell: Well, I mean, the thing about Schroeder and Ellis is, like, they bring different stuff. And again, I’m thinking about the playoffs here, right? And there’s times in a game where you. Where you need 10 minutes of Schroeder coming in and getting some jumpers down right? From. From where he likes to shoot. There’s other times when you’re. When you’re giving up too many drives into the lane and you need to put Ellis in there to kind of close that spigot off. So I don’t know. That’s just me. I mean.
Terry Pluto: No, you might be right.
David Campbell: Players there. Right.
Terry Pluto: You might be right, David. And here’s the other thing. Subtraction again. They were very fed up with Hunter. They just could not figure out what happened to him. You know, having the worst year in the NBA. They tried starting him. They tried bringing him off the bench. They tried running plays for him. And he just. I know he’s one of these kind of quiet guys, and you have to be careful because that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve checked out mentally or whatever, you know, And. But he. He just looked really distant. I mean, this is a guy last year that was in the running for six man of the year. And now that now I know Kenny considers knows that they missed Ty Jerome. Now signing Ty Jerome would have done them no good. He just only now has begun to play after the dreaded calf muscle injuries. He went to Memphis. So I know Kenny wants to put Schreier in that spot of coming off the bench instant offense. Remember Jerome had a little bit of an edge to him too. He kind of yelled at some guys and that kind of and Kenny likes that. Not in everybody, but in certain guys. And I know that he was frustrated with Hunter because he didn’t know what to do with them on the other.
David Campbell: Part of his max ruse. Like, who knows? I mean his injury has lingered way longer than they thought and who knows how much you’ll have him down the stretcher in the playoffs. So I think this is maybe a.
Terry Pluto: Little taken fort in taking practice in any sort of full court drills or anything. I haven’t heard that. Yeah.
David Campbell: So that’s going to be a lot, David.
Terry Pluto: I think you’re right. I, I as they say, upon further review, when you look at they want to get Hunter out of there and if it meant adding two guards, fine, because that trade also really helped their salary cap, the luxury tax, all that kind of stuff. So they would do it anyway, probably with the idea that if they needed to. Because remember when it’s A Thursday at 4, I think is the deadline they could turn around and flip Ellis somewhere.
David Campbell: They could. Yeah. But I mean, here’s when I think about Ellis, the guy I think about is Brunson. Right. Like, could you put him on Brunson and and be effective defensively? And I think the Cavs are trying to think about potential playoff matchups and that seems like a good fit, like just on its face. So who’s, who knows?
Terry Pluto: But yeah, I mean, and you could play smaller. You could go with your two big guys and play really small with Tyson, a small forward and all these other guards.
David Campbell: Yeah.
Terry Pluto: And, and see how that goes. There are some people think, even though I think Ellis is listed at 6 4, like 175, I was looking at some tapes. He looks really skinny, but they think you could kind of go with him some at small forward. And let’s face it, just when you think you got too many of whatever it is or somebody gets hurt again and that takes care of that.
David Campbell: Yeah. Then you need people eating up minutes, so. All right. Well, the Cavs are playing against Darius Garland’s new team tonight. They are at the Clippers as the west west cope west coast trip continues. Every time I say Trip. Now, Terry, you’ve got me doing a double clutch because I don’t want to say road trip.
Terry Pluto: Yes. Because from the grave, how is yelling. No, no, how. I was. No such thing as a road trip. You’re on the road or you’re on a trip.
David Campbell: That’s right. Well, they will continue that on Saturday at Sacramento and then they are at Denver on Monday. So we will see how the new.
Terry Pluto: Look visiting all their old players. So Sacramento, I get to see Hunter and Wednesday night I’ll see Darius because, I mean, Darius was already in town with the gals I got in yesterday.
David Campbell: Yep.
Terry Pluto: And we just go to the other bench. Yeah, it’d be interesting to see now how Darius career goes, you know, with the foot thing. And I mean, he had some really good games, maybe about seven or eight of them out of the 26 he played. Now, they were. Keep in mind, they were 13 and 13 with Darius and then they are 17 and. And 8, I believe, without him. And so that’s. That’s significant. And a couple years ago when he was hurt, they also had a better record without him than with him.
David Campbell: All right, you want to move into some guardians here? Why don’t we do that? Okay. We do have a couple of emails here on the guardians I wanted to get to real quick. The first one is from Neil House from Akron. And Neil says, hey, Terry, with pitchers and catchers reporting next week, will the guardians have David Fry report with the catchers? Do you believe the front office sees a fully healthy David Fry as enough of a quality right bat to contribute enough to the offense? Neil also says, also at the Jose Ramirez press conference, you and Paul Hoynes had no problem bringing up the elephant in the room to Chris Antonetti, the need for bats in the lineup. The question was asked directly to Jose, which he diplomatically and respectfully declined to answer as he felt that should be directed to Chris. In that moment, it was as if you and Paul looked at each other, smiled, and in unison said, that’s our cue. Thanks for not shying away from asking questions.
Terry Pluto: Thank you.
David Campbell: As we fans want that answered. Thanks as well.
Terry Pluto: And then also I did get Mike Chernoff off to the side and because he has a lot to do with this, too. It’s not just Anthonetti show. And had him elaborate on why they’re not signing anybody. And I wrote it and that’s. He explained it. And then all of a sudden I got all these emails just ripping me. You’re a shill for them and this and that. I’M like, I got a chance to have a one on one with a general manager who I know when you do get him, Will, when he, when he grieves to this, he’s got something he wants to say and he’s going to tell you. I think sometimes. See, I do my job differently as a columnist than some columns. Some columnists think they’re just there all the time just to just spout opinions. I had one veteran columnist years ago tell me you shouldn’t even get to know any of these people because it could color how you write about them. You know, if you happen to like them or not. Like, in other words, it should be like you’re watching a movie. And I just never bought. First of all, I spent 13 years reporting 14 count minor league baseball, seven in the NBA, six major league baseball, one minor league baseball. So at heart I would, I was, I’m a reporter and this. And I also just think it brings more to the coverage. I mean, all right, you may not like Chernoff saying, but at least you heard it. So you know what, you know what, what you don’t like. And the other thing, when you’re at a press conference, you know, you just can’t start yelling. Well, you say you don’t want to do this. So you guys are cheap, huh? Dollars are just cheap. That’s what you, I mean, that’s what the fans want. Where does that go, though?
David Campbell: Well, it goes back to the old Godfather line, Terry. And you’ve, you’ve always been about this. It’s business, not personal.
Terry Pluto: Like.
David Campbell: Yeah, right. And, and when you challenge somebody about the way they’re doing their job, like, that’s your job and they understand that.
Terry Pluto: Right?
David Campbell: That’s your job and they understand.
Terry Pluto: Well, I’m saying David, but yelling out, name calling and this, you know.
David Campbell: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. There’s no reason to get to that point because it’s not personal. You know what I’m saying? Like, yeah, the fans take it very personally and like, why don’t you rip into so and so for whatever, but you need to, you need to treat. It’s, it’s business like, treat. Treat it as a business exchange between somebody you’re covering. So I think you’re dead on about that. But it doesn’t mean you can’t be aggressive in, in your questioning and make sure you’re holding people to account.
Terry Pluto: I think I like the Cavaliers a lot. I like Kenny, I like Kobe Altman, I like them both. I don’t like their Trade. I happen to like Andrew Berry personally and I often get to know the general managers more than the coaches, I will say, because I just, I work with them more and. But I hated the Deshaun Watson deal. Just hated it. I made that clear. Now I didn’t, you know, call them the evil empire or anything, but it was, it was very. I just think, as you said, it’s a business thing and that’s the way I do it. I don’t call names. I don’t, I don’t attack personally. And that’s just how. If people don’t like that, well, that’s fine. They’re have their opinion and they certainly aren’t afraid to attack me personally when someone’s in a while in the emails. But, but that’s, that’s the way I’ve done the job all these years. And I also think it’s why you get respect. That’s how you do that. This is not talk radio designed. Let’s have a topic and get callers.
David Campbell: Yeah. And get, get riled up about whatever people are fired up about. So.
Terry Pluto: All right.
David Campbell: We do have one more from Mike in Sacramento. I thought this is a really interesting question, Terry. He says, hey guys, I love the pod, but I don’t necessarily love the Guardians approach to this off season. I read Terry’s article about the Guardians and their apprehension allergy and he puts in parentheses to signing free agent bats based on their recent history, opting instead to rely on younger players who have come up through the Cleveland system. My question is how is this different than when the team relied on the middle infield prospects who were more recent, who more recently worked their way through the system. The team didn’t trade from their middle infield prospects of Rocco Arias and Freeman. And of those only really, Rocchio seems to be showing much promise as a regular player. Seems to me the guards are ignoring the risk that relying on young prospects pose while focusing on the risks only of free agency. So what Mike is saying is like, hey, they don’t want to risk signing a free agent veteran, but they’re willing to risk their future on these prospects, many of whom don’t reach the potential that they thought they might. So I don’t know. What do you think about all that, Terry?
Terry Pluto: That’s a really interesting point. I also think that the Guardians value these in middle and field prospects a lot more than other teams. That’s another thing. And so that like they did throw Jose Tena and that I forgot who else was in that trade for wayne Thomas and 10 years been kind of up and down I believe with Washington, second base and shortstop, but they haven’t there and probably because sometimes like you can make your list what the Guardians have of Carlos Santana and all these different guys that they’ve brought in here over the years on one year contracts and watch them fail. Well, as you to hit his point, we’re still waiting for like the next Francisco Endoro Jose Ramirez coming up from the farm system and you know they were lucky turned out when they traded. Well, non can’t say that because when they traded after they gave the big contract to Jimenez, the seven year, 106 million dollar deal, you know, they were able to move into Toronto, but unfortunately that was in the Ortiz trade. So what do you get out of that? Actually you got to hope a pitcher write this name down, hope he comes around. Josh Hartle, who I happen to like a lefty was in the deal and he had a really good year in Class A and he just pitched briefly in double A last year. It was his first full year in the pros. He’s in the trade because you know Ortiz is not going to pitch here if he pitches anywhere ever. I could tell you right now the Guardians are not bringing back Ortiz or Classe and I mean they’re done with them. But that’s. It’s a fair point.
David Campbell: It is. I guess what the Guardians would say is like, well we are risking in both areas but risking with the internal guys is much cheaper. And I think what the fans would respond is like, well why don’t you take a risk on one? Like just one guy. Yeah, just one veteran. Just bring in one. And they’ve tried this in the past and I think their thing is like, well it hasn’t worked out in the past so we’re not going to do it anymore. When actually I think fans would say like, well you just picked the wrong guys.
Terry Pluto: I mean one example, the last time it worked was in 2016. Mike Napoli and Raja Davis came in on these one year deals and really helped them. Napoli had a huge year. I know they let him go after that year because I remember at the end you could see the bat was slowing down and this and it turned out to be the right thing to do. But it’s just, I mean Ramon Loriano, of course they let him go. All of a sudden he had a good half season for Baltimore or whoever picked him up. I forgo who it was. That was a shocker to me because he looked almost comatose at the play when he, when he was Here and some others I would say I think they just go, we’re not very good at targeting these one year guys.
David Campbell: But you’re right, it seems like they remember the bad guys that didn’t pan out. Not the bad guys, but the bad signings and they don’t remember the good ones. So I don’t know, it’s again, I think a lot of fans would be like, hey, just one, just, just find one guy.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, I mean I would be interested, you know, I don’t know if there’s somebody faulting around out there or to the point part, you know, packaging some of these prospects. I do think that like Arius has not got much of a respect around baseball at all. I think they would trade him. Rocchio. I think they’re just look at him either at second or short. He’s really good defensively. I would not give up on Rokio there. Vizano’s got to prove to me he could play. I’m just, I know the hype draft thing but the minor league stats are not there. It’s small supply. But he’s got a show he could play. I’ve seen him play two games. It is hard to tell at the plate but what I saw at second base is a guy that was very mechanical. It did not look, you know, anything at all like Roki or some of the better second baseman. Because that’s why I’ve even suggested maybe trying him in the outfield. By the way. Now the guy that I like last year, he just had a horrible year because of injuries was Juan Brito who is now recovered from. He had a hamstring and I think a broken thumb. But I was talking to sure enough about that and he threw Breedo into the mix for right field. I said he’s played some in the outfield and while he’s played more second base and third base, he said, you know, he could probably do it out there. And I’m like, good, let’s, let’s see. He’s a switch hitter. I think right now the only right handed hitter outfield that they have, unless you count Fry, who really isn’t is Rodriguez. We’ve seen enough of that. I believe that. I mean right now they’re going with Kwon in left and the water or Valero and center or maybe Dalautter and center, Valero and right. And you just kind of mix in with these, these other guys and I mean Chernoff had all these stats about which I did cross check about how in September when they went to the younger guys, they went from, you know, like 29th and scoring and OPS to like, 13th, and I forgot what it was. But in other words, they went from horrible to average. And that was about right now, to me, it’s a small sample size, and it was a team that was very hot. But Valero Cafes did help them. So we’ll see.
David Campbell: Yeah. Well, it’s hard to believe, Terry, Paul Hoynes will be in Arizona like a week from Sunday. Yeah, it’s coming up. And I know you’re going to be.
Terry Pluto: Going in March 10th through the 18th. Yeah. So then we could get Roberta back on the scouting trail because the last two years, because of family crisis, both times when we were to leave. So we have that. So we’ll see if she could find another Stephen Kwan or another Byron Rocchio. We’ll see who she likes.
David Campbell: I’m sure she will. So. All right. I wanted to wrap up with something off the Monkin press conference yesterday. I’d love to hear from our listeners about this. So Todd Monken started talking about all I ever wanted to do was be part of a team. Like, even he said back to when he was a little kid, and he said one year he dressed it up. He dressed up for Halloween like Evel Knievel, the Daredevil, because he was really into evil, keen evil for a while. But every other year, he dressed up like a football player. And other kids were getting train sets and army men, and all he wanted was football games. And he talked about, like, rubber band football and talking football, and he talked about the vibrating football game. Do you remember this, Terry?
Terry Pluto: I do.
David Campbell: It was the most ridiculous thing ever. There were little men on a platform, little football players, and there was a disc in the platform that they stood on. These guys were probably like a couple of inches high or maybe an inch and a half. And you would spin the disc and it would make them go in different directions. And the quarterback would hold this foam football in his hand and you would turn the vibrating field. The field was electric powered, and you would turn it on and the field would vibrate and it would make the guys move in various directions.
Terry Pluto: It was invented, this. Yeah. Why did people buy this chaos? It looked like Freddy Kitchens was coaching that nobody was lined up anywhere and things are just. What is that? You know? So it was. Yeah, yeah.
David Campbell: So I had one of those. And I also had a game where you would take two film strips and you. One will be offense and one will be defense, and you would pick an offensive play and then you’d Pick a random defense and you would see how your offense, oh, gain of 8 on the pass play because they were in the wrong defense. And you would. It was like a little viewer. But it got me thinking about sports games like that that were kind of based in the reality of the real sport that we had when we were kids. And I know that Stratamatic was big back in the day and then as things went on, like there was Tecmo bowl and all the video games and stuff and I guess they’re making a Tecmo bowl movie now is in the works.
Terry Pluto: So.
David Campbell: But, and then Madden and all this stuff. But I wanted, I wanted to hear from our listeners. But also you, Terry, do you remember, did you have stratomatic baseball?
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: Or what did you do as a kid in terms of games that you played that like Todd Monken was talking about?
Terry Pluto: Yes, I had stratomatic baseball and loved it. I remember the exciting when the new teams would come out and then they also had where you could like get the 27 Yankees playing like the 1968 Indians. And usually it looked like the 27 Yankees are playing the 1968 Indians or whatnot when they faced each other. It was very inventive, you know, very basic. But there was that. I cannot think there was another game where you, you kind of spun this wheel and it was a baseball game too, but I forgot what that one was called. But yeah, I’d be interested to see. Yeah. Were you out there with games, especially some of the older ones because now with the high tech things, I’m actually glad I didn’t have those growing up because I, I could play Strato at Matic for hours. I think now with the hollow video things are so addicting. That could have been a really bad deal for me.
David Campbell: You would have just locked yourself in.
Terry Pluto: Your room playing it over and over, MLB or whatever.
David Campbell: Yeah, yeah, there was another one too. It was a basketball game and it was like a cardboard, cardboard box with. It was a court and there were holes cut in it. You remember this one? And you would pull the lever and.
Terry Pluto: It was like a ping pong. While you would fire at wall, it.
David Campbell: Would fire into this little basket with a plastic mesh net. And I’ve seen those in like antique stores and stuff.
Terry Pluto: But yeah, I’m glad I played on Antiques, David.
David Campbell: That’s right. Well, I did too, so. But yeah, send those in. We’d love to hear from you on maybe some games that you played. Basketball, football, anything you remember from a kid and whatever.
Terry Pluto: Was out of Great Neck, New York. I don’t know. I see if that’s right, but I just. It’s flashing back to me. And I had a friend, Frank Sarmer, and we were just like, couldn’t wait to get the teams and figure all this out. We kept stats. And the interesting thing was the way they set up those cards with dice and that. I mean, you didn’t have some guy with a.220 hitter hitting.340, you know, most of the time. I mean, usually a bad hitter was a bad hitter on those things, and a good one was a good one. And then later on, I think they develop kind of platoon stats and some other stuff. But, you know, I look back at that, I also did some things with. With. With this foot. I remember, with football cards, I forgot what it was. It’s kind of like a lineup. Offense and defense, and take this one move, and that would be a block. And I had a marble and I don’t know, rolling it down. But I do think when you’re doing things like that, it does hit the part of your brain that’s creative. Whereas when things are so programmed as they are now, so realistic. Yeah, I wonder. I just wonder about that. I wonder about a lot of things. I mean, you know, so it’s kind.
David Campbell: Of like when you’re listening to a baseball game on the radio versus when you’re watching it. When you’re listening on the radio, your mind can fill in the images, right? It’s kind of like that’s what you’re getting at, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: With a game where it’s stratomatic, you have to create the action in your head instead of these computers as opposed.
Terry Pluto: To, you know, these are. These guys are there. It’s maybe that. It’s probably just some old guy saying the old days are better, but. But it’s also like, just. You don’t. You don’t see. Like my friend Frank that I mentioned before, and I would go. And we would go to. I remember there was a church with a big brick wall, and we had tennis balls, and we pretend to be different hitters and be pitching to him. Kind of like, area. Yeah, yeah. And just kind of make it into. That’s a hit, that’s an out. You know, that kind of stuff. And created your own lineups and. But how often do you see anybody, quote, unquote, playing pickup baseball?
David Campbell: True. Yeah. It’s kind of gone away, sadly, so. All right, well, hit us with that. We’d love to hear your thoughts on some old games from whatever era you were a kid in. Send those emails into sportsleveland.com and put Terry’s talking in the subject line. Like I said, we’re really going to try and go heavy on your emails in next week’s podcast. So. All right. We’re good, Terry.
Terry Pluto: That’ll do it.
David Campbell: All right. Don’t forget to sign up for Terry’s newsletter, which he mentioned. You can go to cleveland.com Pluto There’s a blue bar at the top. Click there. You can sign up. I think you get two free weeks. Comes out every Wednesday. Have a great week. We’ll see you next time on Terry’s Talkin’.