CLEVELAND, Ohio — It’s time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In this episode, they talk about the Browns’ QB room and what Sam Darnold suggests they should do this offseason.
Also, they discuss the Cavs and early impressions of the addition of James Harden. They also get into the Guardians and how they should approach the early season for top prospect Chase DeLauter.
Highlights:
Cleveland sports saw a flurry of activity with the Cavaliers trading for James Harden, the Browns changing coaches, and the Guardians signing José Ramírez to a long-term deal.
The Cavaliers’ acquisition of James Harden was part of a larger three-for-three player swap that is viewed as a significant upgrade in overall talent and toughness.
Initial Terry skepticism over the Harden trade has shifted to optimism when viewing the entire package of incoming players, not just Harden himself.
The trade was designed to support Donovan Mitchell by lightening his offensive and emotional load, keeping him fresher for critical moments.
James Harden’s debut showcased his elite offensive playmaking but also highlighted his significant defensive liabilities, confirming the trade-off the team made.
The acquisition of Dennis Schroder is seen as a crucial move, bringing a feisty, aggressive identity and ball-handling to the second unit.
Center Jarrett Allen has experienced a significant offensive surge, attributed to increased assertiveness and more space in the paint in Evan Mobley’s absence.
Coach Kenny Atkinson earned praise for his skillful development of young players and his ability to adapt to lineup changes throughout a challenging season.
The Browns face a critical defensive coordinator hire, needing a candidate whose philosophy aligns with the aggressive “front-four” system Jim Schwartz established.
Jim Schwartz’s exit was seen as inevitable after he was passed over for the head coaching job, a move made to prevent potential “internal discord.”
A look back at the 2018 QB draft class ranks Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson as the top talents, ironically noting that backup Sam Darnold is the only one with a Super Bowl ring.
Why the Browns should pursue a QB reclamation project, such as trading for Mac Jones or Malik Willis, to develop a high-upside backup.
Terry makes a strong case for top prospect Chase DeLauter to be on the Guardians’ Opening Day roster, dismissing concerns over service time manipulation.
José Ramírez’s team-friendly contract is considered a unique anomaly, driven by a personal loyalty not to be expected from other athletes.
The Guardians’ quiet offseason is partially explained by a significant financial hit (est. $20 million annually) from their new, less lucrative TV rights deal.
Could the Guardians swing a deal for the Dodgers’ Andy Pages?
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If you have a question or a topic, or a story about a childhood sports game you used to play, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line for an upcoming podcast.
You can find previous podcasts below.
Also, a transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it may contain many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell: Hey, it is time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. We’re taping this on Monday evening a little after 5:30. David Campbell here. Your host, Gary Pluto is here. Busy time, Terry. How you doing?
Terry Pluto: I’m doing fine. I haven’t had to sit there and go, what am I going to write about? That’s for sure.
David Campbell: Oh, yeah. So we probably should start.
Terry Pluto: No. Before we start, think about what’s happened in the last, say, two weeks. So Jose got the lifetime contract, Browns hired Monkin Schwartz left, Cavs made three trades, including bringing in James Harden, and we haven’t even got in pitchers and catchers report this week if you want to throw that in there. So there you go. But really, since, I don’t know, the last week of January, it’s a lot going on.
David Campbell: Yeah, definitely. I guess we can start with the Cavs. I think there’s kind of a newfound excitement and people want to see what this is going to look like. So. Yeah, why don’t we go there first?
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: They’re 32 and 21 now, and I think you were writing about this over the weekend, but like, don’t look now kind of thing. They’re. They’re on a streak here all alone in fourth place in the east. And I don’t know, Terry, why don’t you talk about your general impressions of what you’ve seen so far and then we can kind of drill down on that a little bit.
Terry Pluto: Well, it’s been moving in the right direction before they made the trades. You know, Kenny, I wrote a thing, I tried to serve a new format column over the weekend where kind of Terry’s thinking where I went into different stuff and I didn’t even ask the editor, my boss, about that. I just did it.
David Campbell: So people might want the podcast name change to Terry’s thing.
Terry Pluto: Yes. Anyway, but one of the things I mentioned at the bottom is like Kenny now when you look at it, and granted, I like him as a coach and push from the beginning, but he is figuring this out in a lot of ways. He’s had a much tougher job than last year and he’s gone, incorporated the young guys from Tom 1 to Porter to Tyson into this thing. And now he’s got a couple of new guys from Sacramento, Intro and Ellis, and he can go and put them out there and just kind of cause some defensive havoc and I would say kind of play Indiana Pacer ball a little bit. You know, I’m watching Schroeder and I’m thinking If they. I’m not saying they would have beat Indiana last year, but I’ll tell you one thing, that guy would have got the ball off the floor and he’d have thrown five elbows at guys trying. Now, he might have got thrown out of the game or fouled out, but he was going to go down feisty and he would. And they needed somebody like that to help them. So that’s even before we get to the hardened part. I think that transaction where we had DeAndre Hunter just looked like Houston want to be here or something. And I think Lonzo Ball in the end. I’ve been really thinking about this and asking, I think is D still not right? And his confidence is shaken because he didn’t ever play. Just go stand in the corner, throw up rocks. I mean, that’s. That’s what happens to a player. Yeah. Just wasn’t him. So you subtract Hunter and ball and then you basically. Then you make the big swing, as Kobe Altman called it with for Hunter. Excuse me, for. They trade Garland for hardening. And so that’s. That’s where we are right now. And a couple of things on Harden. I didn’t like the trade I there, but it’s not because I didn’t want to. I wanted to keep Garland. I’m concerned. I was concerned about Garland. By the way, did you see what I. Go ahead. Did you see what I sent you? The little note on Garland, what the Clippers just said?
David Campbell: No, we can talk about that. What did you send me?
Terry Pluto: Okay. Lawrence Frank said to told the media there that the toe that he injured this year is just about healed. But the one from the surgery, they’re going to be very careful with this and not rush it. So this guy, in other words, was even in worse shape than I thought because I thought maybe the new toe was the problem, but the old big toe sounds like it’s the bigger problem. So. Yeah.
David Campbell: So this is why they made the trade, right? I mean.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: So it’s more Mode and you can’t be this. No, they knew all this too. Both teams would know about this before the trade was made, but man, oh man.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. So. And you know when you go and look at the stats, the only guy with a worse plus minus was Tyrese Proctor. Then Garland. And I don’t help Proctor respond. A lot of times a guy coming off the bench, he’s in crazy situations. You don’t look too deep at his plus minus. A guy deep off the bench. But Garlands was very revealing. I mean, he never was a good defender. And then since he got hurt, he was terrible. So, you know, I’ve come around to the package. Of the three guys that went versus that went out versus the three that came in, you would take Schroeder Ellis at Harden over Garland Hunter and ball any day, any time. So that when I got to that part, then it’s like, okay, we’ll see what happens with James. And I wrote, it’s funny. I got it. I got an email ripping me from this guy he brought up. It’s an interesting journalistic point, which I didn’t run past my boss. But periodically, you know, I’ll do this and I’ll say, I’m writing this from the viewpoint of the Cavaliers. And this guy’s also, since when did you go to work for the Cavaliers? And I wrote, since I ripped them twice in a column that we actually went trying to be fair. So that was like the story that ran over the weekend, heavy with quotes from both Kenny and Kobe Altman. So this is why we did it. And so, because I think now a lot of columnists won’t do that. They just think their opinion comes from on high and it should be, you know, on the tablets or even throw the 10 Commandments out, just put, you know, the 10 from Terry up on the wall and just leave it there. But that’s not really. I think part of me is still a reporter going back to those 13 years of. Actually 14 years, if you count my one year of double A baseball, plus six baseball, six regular baseball, and seven in the NBA. And that’s why I communicate with coaches and GMs, and try to have a balanced view. So that’s why I did that. But so when you. That’s when I began to take a more holistic view of what they did.
David Campbell: Well, beyond that, when there’s a debate, like, and you make your point, like, and this happens in a real debate, like on the debate team, you go the other side and you hear what they have to say, and then you back to your point of view and it’s like, you know what? I heard what you said. I still think whatever. So, like, it only strengthens your. Your original opinion because it’s being, you know, you’re hearing every side of it. And I think that, yeah, that’s a great way to approach it.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. I mean, I just think it’s. It’s right. I mean, the people, too many people in the, in the. They say you just have a hot take, have a strong opinion. Well, I mean, I had a Strong opinion on Harden. Like one guy from the NBA told me, you know what he’ll be for you? He’ll be great. Until he’s not, in other words. But you don’t know when he won’t be. But his history is usually when he goes to a first team, you get a new team. Remember, it’s the fourth time in six years they could say whatever they want. How? Well, he really didn’t ask for the trade either. Please just stop. They’ve won 17 out of 21 suddenly stops playing. Well, what is that? So. But the point being, when you’ve done that four times in six years, you know that it will stop at some point, but it probably won’t this year. And, you know, for things we’ve talked about before, they want to at least get to what amounts to the NBA Final Four to help with signing Donovan. So that’s. That’s where I’m at. But I think it’s not just Harden. It’s the package of those other guys that are going to really help them.
David Campbell: Well, I think we touched on it last week, too. It gives Kenny Atkinson a lot more flexibility with his lineups. And this guy can give us this and that guy can give us that. And anyway, we have a couple emails here. I thought we maybe wrap up the trade part of it and then we can look forward. How does that sound?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, And I want to give you a quick scouting report of what I saw in Harden, but go ahead.
David Campbell: Yeah, we’ll get to that. But just to kind of put a ball on the trade. This one is from Joel. He says, hey, Terry, if Donovan and other players did indeed lose faith in Garland, does that change how you feel about the trade? No snark intended. I agreed with Terry. But if Mitchell endorsed the trade, well, that changes things for me. I’m interested in what you think. Be well, Joel. Thanks, Joel.
Terry Pluto: Well, definitely they went to Donovan, and I think it is a factor because Donovan’s not a jerk. You know, Donovan wants to win. This guy’s been in the playoffs eight years in a row, hasn’t got out of the second round and average 29 points a game in the playoffs. So he’s not. It isn’t like you could roll out those awful stats of Harden and those play those elimination games, and they’re bad. I mean, you will. I didn’t bother to look up Donovan, but I remember him throwing in 35 points and just, you know, put this team on his back and carrying them. So I think it’s a factor. But also what is why I’ve gotten. Become more positive. Is the total package of three for three for three or whatever. Right.
David Campbell: Okay, this next one is from jk, and it kind of touches on some things we’ve been discussing here, but JK says, I found your articles on the Harden trade to be interesting. As you know, I share your concerns about this trade. Given Harden’s history with other teams. One thing that makes me more hopeful about this than I was is the fact that Harden apparently wanted to come to Cleveland. I’m curious, as if when he forced teams to let him leave, did he have a particular destination in mind or were they situations where he just wanted to get out of the situation he was then in? Thanks, jk. So I guess this is like. And you said money, money, money, money. I think on our podcast last week, a lot of times that was what it was. Do you feel like this is the same deal still after, you know, given a week’s time here since the. Since the deal?
Terry Pluto: I think he wanted both. He still. I want to see what happens with that partial guaranteed contract that he has for next year. See if the Cavs guarantee the full thing. You know, they could verbally promise him nothing. Wr, he’s your guy. You could. You could do that. It’s nice that he wants to come here. I don’t think he wanted to go to, say, Sacramento. He probably would have vetoed that. Again, I’m. I’m interested to see now, watching him. This is before they play at Denver Wednesday night or. Sorry, excuse me. Monday night. Monday night. This is based on the game over the weekend. He’s tremendous when he’s concentrating on getting the ball to other people. He really is. When he. In that. He’s. When he’s in James the playmaker role, he’s very good. And you can see Donovan had a lot of energy in the fourth quarter because he was. He’s been already carrying the team anyway, but he didn’t have to bring the ball off the floor or anything. And also when Donovan was out there with Schroeder, one thing about Ricky, he’ll take that ball. You don’t have to worry about that. He’s. He’s kind of, you know, you just go. Go where you want to go. And I. I got it, bro. What. You know, just leave it to me. And like, 25 minutes. 20 to 25 minutes. A shooter is pretty good around 30 or more. You’re. You’re. You’re getting into his negative territory. But. But that’s. See those. That thing has helped Harden’s passing to Allen. It was terrific.
David Campbell: You talked about last week, too, Terry, about how about him getting the ball to the big guys. Yes.
Terry Pluto: Right. And him throwing bounce passes to big guys. A lot of guys can’t do that because they throw the bounce pass around the guy’s knees. Hardens were coming up around his waist. These guys are tall, you know, you can’t ask them to. You have to make sure. I’ve known some coach like Al McGuire in the old days, wherever. He just hated any bounce pass to a big guy. But Harden was able to do that with Allen, and it just. It really shows. And also, he knows how to play the angles to big men. That was very impressive. He. He shot the ball better than normal. Keep in mind he’s like 34 or 35% on threes. He didn’t go to the basket like he normally does, I think because he was trying to work Allen and that. Because, you know, he draws a lot of fouls. I think he shoot, goes to the line eight times. McNaman shoots 90% defensively. Dave, I looked at it. It was bad. It wasn’t Garland bad, but it was bad. He didn’t get back.
David Campbell: He was what, -14 against Sacramento, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. And just. He just didn’t. You know, he. He did not. I mean, this is what you get with. With him. He sees 36. It’s not going to change. But when you go into a series against anybody and you’re thinking about the calves are now. And now you hear this other thing about, I don’t know how many toes are hurting now with Garland. I don’t mean me to be facetious. This sounds terrible to me. Then it’s like, okay, we got to get something for this guy. Now. I have a feeling when they were having their meetings inside, it’s like, well, let’s take a flyer on Harden, because one thing, he has a history of being durable, and let’s see what happens.
David Campbell: We’ve seen this, too. I mean, we’ve gone from seeing Donovan Mitchell have to pull Darius Garland aside during playoff games.
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: And be like, let’s go. You can do this. You know, like, yeah. Will not be doing that with James Harden.
Terry Pluto: Can you imagine, if anything, he may be telling Harden, you know, I’m out. I’m out here, too. It could be like that.
David Campbell: It won’t be, James, please be more assertive. Like, you will not hear those words.
Terry Pluto: You won’t hear, yeah, nobody has to tell James Harden, you can do this. Which so is.
David Campbell: And again, you talked about Donovan Mitchell being fresher late in games like that. Psychological. Having to drag the whole team emotionally across the finish line is taxing as well. Like, you know, in terms of the psychological part of it. Right. Not just the physical.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. The Cavs are concerned about this. And I talk to some people that work in the, you know, like, pick up the towels or work in the dressing room, and they all, they love Donovan. He’s. He knows their names. He’s great, too. I mean, he, he is exactly what he looks like. And so you want that guy to be around. You want him to be a kick key part of your franchise. And it isn’t like when Kyrie was here and LeBron James had to spend half his time keeping Kyrie, you know, content and, and playing. This is not it at all. I mean, this guy is there and so. And not that. And you’re right. Garland’s confidence was already going before the toe started to go. So I’ve, I flipped some, especially with the whole package of guys, if they just traded for hard and I’m like, okay, I don’t see this. This could blow up quick, but they could have a good run. And I have a lot of confidence in Kenny Atkinson just because I’ve watched him this year, you know, shuffle around with those young guys. I mean, who thought Tomlin or Porter, these guys are undrafted players. Jalen Tyson, when he went in the first round, they were like, oh, he was way overdrafted. I’ve never heard that. I had a low second round grade on this guy. So now, yes, Kobe and his staff found these guys, but the coaches are developing them.
David Campbell: Well, you know how it is in the playoffs, Terry. There are times late in games when you need a basket from somebody. And are you, are you feeling more comfortable putting the ball in James Harden’s hands with three minutes left or Darius Garland? Like, there’s, there’s just. There’s a lot of advantages which you have been laying out here, but, I mean, that’s just another one, and that’s a good one. Let’s see how this goes. Yeah.
Terry Pluto: You notice how they were able to knock, they call it knock Garland off the ball when he brought it up. Even with the, Even before the toe, you know, it’s pretty hard to knock down Donovan or Harden off the ball. They’re just too strong. And as I said, if they try to knock Schroeder off the ball, he’ll fight them. He will. He went after Luka Donkic after a game. You know, I just, I mean, there’s a reason A guy that talent has been with 11 teams. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I always have liked him. I’ve had an affinity for Schroeder because it reminds me of like Jordan Clarkson or even in the old days, some Vinnie Johnson. That means, I mean, these guys, they’ll put it up now and they’ll kind of get. They’ll knock you around and those are what you want a guy. You don’t want a lot of guys like that. But one guy like that off the bench is beneficial.
David Campbell: Yep. I was just going to mention Harden’s numbers from the other night in the opening his Cavs debut. They. They won 132, 126 over the Kings on Saturday night. 32 minutes, 23 points, 7 of 13 on field goals, 5 of 8 on threes. And I mentioned the minus 14. So. All right, so what has gotten into Jarrett Allen? Terry? Okay, so the last three games, so 29, 10 and the 40 against Portland.
Terry Pluto: But yeah.
David Campbell: What are you seeing from Jared Allen? It’s like a different mentality or something.
Terry Pluto: Well, two things. Number one, Mobley’s not there, so it does open the middle up. And that for him to play well, this is not by now, this is not a thing. They’re better off with Evan Mobley. Don’t, don’t go there. This is just. I think Jarrett looks around, goes. I’m the only big guy here besides Brian who really isn’t that big compared, you know, NBA standards. By the way, Brian is kind of feisty too. I like, I throw him in there with those young guys. He’s another one. He’s yelling at people and he’s getting rebounds. So I like they’re developing a tougher edge. But Jarrett, Jarrett has never understood how good he could be. I really believe that because you and I have talked about that. Be screaming, you’re shooting 70% for the field. You get the ball five feet from the rim and you throw it to the corner. Don’t throw it to the corner. Score. And I think he’s got these guys yelling at him now, Donovan. And he’ll have Harden too, just dunk it. Score. And so we’ll see if this continues. He has good hands. Now, early in the year, to be fair to him, he had a bad thumb on one hand and a wrist on the other. Remember he was dropping the ball and he was out for a while and so his hands are better. That helps. But I just think he sees the need for him to be more to serve. I think he shocked himself by that 40 point game in Portland. And this is stuff that Atkinson and these other guys have been telling them, man, you can do this. You hardly ever miss. Just shoot it.
David Campbell: What was he the other night? He was 11 of 12 shooting.
Terry Pluto: It’s like you can’t make 11 or 12 in a layup drill. I mean, you just, you know, I don’t care because you, I say, well, dunks, you still have to be strong enough to catch the ball inside, go up and you probably are going to get bumped. So it’s an exciting development.
David Campbell: Cool.
Terry Pluto: By the way, glad you didn’t drop. All these people want to trade that guy. And I’m always like, you don’t want to trade that guy because of where his, you know, his, his contract last I saw was the 88th richest in the NBA, which isn’t very high. And also if you don’t have Mobley, where are you?
David Campbell: And so this guy, GM’s dream of having a player like him under this kind of contract. Why would you want to give that away? Like.
Terry Pluto: Right, right. And the players like him, you know, other than they get frustrated. They wish he was more aggressive.
David Campbell: All right, we have kind of a little off the beaten path email for, for the Cavs here. I, I meant to get to the last couple weeks, but it’s from Larry Sullivan from Louisville, Ohio and he says, hey Terry and Dave, how much do you think the loss of Kenny’s top assistant, Jordan Ott to the Suns has impacted the team? Perhaps we’re overlooking Jordan’s impact on game Prep, culture, setting, etc. The Suns are far exceeding predictions and in fact their better was rec. Their record was better than the Cavs earlier this season. Something or nothing. Thanks for your great podcast. Thanks for that, Larry. So I think the suns are what, 31 and 22? Yeah, they’re seventh in the west, but I don’t know much about Jordan Ott and his role on the team. Terry. But losing assistance is hard, as the Browns are finding out right now. But yeah, what do you know about Jordan?
Terry Pluto: I know Kenny really liked him and that’s about as far as it goes. Brian. Johnny Bryant was brought in because he was an assistant with Donovan early in his career at Utah. Then he went to the Knicks and he’s the, he is actually the number one assistant. But I know Kenny spoke of ot. It’s hard to know. It’s easier in football where a guy’s a offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator. Now some, some coaches have actually a guy designated as a coordinator. I remember when Mike Brown was an assistant. I think at Indiana, when Carlisle was there the first time. But anyway, he basically had the title of defense of defensive coordinator. And even when I interviewed Popovich about Mike Brown, he told me that he gave Mike. Mike would come to him. He told give me suggestions on when you want to switch guys up or defenses up. And because he wanted that. So Mike made his bones basically there on the defensive end. I don’t know what Jordanar did, other than the fact he clearly knows what he’s doing.
David Campbell: Yeah, I would say so. I think they think they won maybe 36 games last year under Holzer and they’re already up to 31.
Terry Pluto: So what if they did too?
David Campbell: Take out of the year and you’re going to lose people off your staff. Right.
Terry Pluto: They also got rid of some of the veterans there that weren’t in Phoenix, that weren’t there, and. And Durant’s playing well, so.
David Campbell: All right. Anything else you want to get into on the Cabs?
Terry Pluto: Terry was there. Yeah, I’m sorry. They got rid of a bunch of the veterans with the. With. With Phoenix is what I meant to say. No, that’ll do it. All right.
David Campbell: So we mentioned the game tonight, Monday night at Denver. That’s a 9 o’ clock tip. And then Wednesday, the Cavs return home after this west coast trip. I did not put an extra word.
Terry Pluto: In there this week and it was listening deeply.
David Campbell: That’s right.
Terry Pluto: From the grave, saying, you got it right.
David Campbell: I did. And the Cavs will be home on Wednesday playing Washington at 7. And then we head into the All Star break. Can’t believe it’s here already. So, all right, why don’t we just move into the Browns, Terry?
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: There’s a lot going on with Todd Monkin as he’s trying to assemble his staff. Mary Kay Cabot, our colleague, has been writing today. She’s been tracking down all these coaching interviews. I know Aubrey Pleasant, Rams assistant. The Browns interviewed him today on Monday for the defensive coordinator job. They’ve also put in to talk to the Panthers, Jonathan Cooley, the Giants, Charlie Bullen, and the Falcons, Mike Rutenberg. There’s some local connections here. Pleasant was with the Browns, I think, as a coaching intern back in 2013, and Cooley played John Carroll and he’s the passing. The defensive passing game coordinator for the Panthers. And he also coached with Akron and he’s from Columbus. So a lot going on here and I guess we’ll see.
Terry Pluto: I have no opinion on these guys. I mean that. And that’s. By the way, though, when you look at. I did. I Went through looking at some of the coordinators for the Browns over the years, like since 99. It’s like you better rent when you get that job. These are like one and two year jobs for the most part. You know, Schwartz, Schwartz had three. I think Todd Grantham was the only other defensive coordinator that was there for three. Oh, Woods. Woods was, yeah. That’s one of the most remarkable ones because he was terrible when he was here. And so you, you have that. And then on the offensive end, you know, they just change these guys in and out. That’s why you don’t know. But it’s nice of a guy with some experience. But I’ll tell you this, they better nail it, David, because Monk is going to have plenty to do with the offense. I, you know, this is not, he’s not a CEO coach where he’s going to just be over everything.
David Campbell: Yeah, we, we have a Schwartz question here from Chuck McCartney from Avon Lake. Chuck is a longtime listener. He says. Hey guys, now that Jim Schwartz has exited stage left, I hope coach Monkin favors an attacking front four man to man defense. My worst fear is a read and react defensive coordinator who runs zone on the back end. I don’t want to hear that we don’t have the right type of personnel to run the defensive coordinators defense. So that fans have to be patient as 2026 is a transition year. Thanks, Chuck. Do you think, I mean, I know a lot of people wanted to see Jim Schwartz come back. Do you think losing him is going to cost the Browns in 2026 or. You know, there’s a lot of defensive coordinators and really good ones all around the league and it’s not going to be that big of a deal. How do you kind of feel? It’ll go either way.
Terry Pluto: He’s right about the fact they better get a guy that fits the scheme. The scheme fits the players, excuse me. Or basically runs Jim stuff. Because they built the team that way. Andrew Berry was the, was the, was the power, the power behind bringing in Schwartz because they were friends. Got to be friends in Philadelphia in 2019 when Andrew spent a year there and Schwartz was the defensive coordinator. Schwartz likes that style of defense and Andrew became a disciple of it from, from Schwartz. And so he brought, you know, he eventually when he got a chance to get Schwartz, he brought him in here. And I would think they would go in that same direction of somebody who, who subscribes to that. David? I don’t know.
David Campbell: And I was thinking back to Monkin’s press conference last week. And he says, we want our guys playing fast and keeping things simple enough where they can play fast. And if you bring in somebody who’s going to be teaching a brand new defensive language, I mean, that’s going.
Terry Pluto: Or the Joe, Joe woods, remember the quarters thing, which I never fully understood. It was some sort of weird zone thing that they ran San Francisco. You got a good defense, you don’t mess with it. Now, what do you think about the Schwartz thing?
David Campbell: I. I just think that it. I don’t think it could have worked. And I think being passed over the way that Jim Schwartz was, I think it just kind of ruined it for him and I just don’t think he could come back. Yeah, it was too. It’s too raw and too, too close to when it happened for him to decide to come back.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, if you happen now, right? Oh, sure. Yeah. And I think that’s how they felt about it. And while Mary Kay said apparently the two guys had a good meeting, it wasn’t good enough that either side, I think, felt comfortable with making this work. Because when Monkin said, I didn’t come here for Jim Schwartz, I mean, he didn’t mean any AD said at that point, Schwartz is the top defensive coordinator. Anything else? But that’s not why he took the job. He wanted that out there, too. And, you know, Jim just was not going to change on this. And we’ve seen enough of Browns, as Jimmy Haslam once called internal discord. You don’t want to go down that road again.
David Campbell: Okay, I want to talk about the super bowl for a minute, Terry, and maybe a little bit of a Browns slant to it.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: Iri Harris, our colleague, had a post up within the last couple days asking if the Browns now with Sam Darnold winning a Super bowl, if the Browns took the fourth best quarterback in the 2018 draft with the number one overall pick. And it’s an interesting debate to get into. I was going to run through these guys real quick and then I wanted to get your take on it. All right.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: So we’re talking about the 2018 draft. Of course, the Browns took Baker Mayfield number one overall that season. Then we go down to Sam Darnold, who was number three, jets. And he has, as everybody heard over the last few days, he took a long, circuitous route to a happy home now in Seattle and is a Super bowl champion. So there’s that Josh Allen, number seven to the Bills. Right. And probably you could argue the number one. The number one quarterback in that draft, Josh Rosen, I think was one of your guys that you like coming out.
Terry Pluto: That was my guy. I did a great job on that one. To be fair to me, I did have Josh Allen number two, Baker number three, and that was it. I didn’t have Jackson at all.
David Campbell: Well, Josh Rosen went number 10 to the Cardinals. That did not work out so well. And then if you go all the way down to number 20 and I’m sorry, number 32. The Baltimore Ravens took Lamar Jackson with the last pick in the first round. And if I remember right, they moved up to get him. I’m trying to remember.
Terry Pluto: Or did they? Yeah, they tried to get the last pick in the first round.
David Campbell: So how would you rank those four guys right now? Terry Baker, Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. How would you put them in order?
Terry Pluto: Well, I like Allen best of the group and probably Lamar number two. But the remarkable thing is, you know, the first, this is the only guy from this draft to win a Super bowl is Darnold. And on top of that, Jackson’s won two MVP awards and Allen’s won one. So you just. Now, to be a little fair to those guys, they were dealing with Patrick Mahomes in the afc. So, you know, you look at. But still, the Darnold thing, He led the NFL turnovers this year. He had 20. Number two on the turnover list. It’s an interesting list. Geno Smith with 18. That was a disaster for Vegas. Coming in tied for third at 15 are Tuathua from Miami, Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence and Bryce Young. And then at 14, Baker Mayfield, J.J. mcCarthy and Cam Ward. So you have a group of nine with four. Did make the playoffs. I don’t know what point is. Yeah, yeah, I don’t know what the point is exactly. But I do think that the coaches who just go crazy that you can’t make any turnovers, you also sometimes don’t score many touchdowns. Where Darnold is weakest is he fumbles the ball. He had 14 interceptions and six fumbles lost. So that was, you know, that was the big thing there. But I just look at that and I’m not particularly drawing any conclusions other than like the other guys. You know, Darnold was like lost six fumbles, Geno Smith lost one, Baker lost three, you know, on that list. Yet Shador had 10 interceptions. He lost a fumble.
David Campbell: But this, this goes back, Terry, to what you said about Joe Flacco when he was in that like anybody can put a quarterback out there who can throw three yard outs and nothing happens.
Terry Pluto: Like you kind of like the guy.
David Campbell: Who, frankly, go down the field and create touchdowns and has a. Has some turnovers. Like, you can live with that because there’s points going up on the board. Right? That’s what. That’s what you’ve always said about Joe Flacco.
Terry Pluto: Right. And, yes, Dylan Gabriel, he hardly had any turn. What do you. What do you have with Dylan Gabriel?
David Campbell: No vertical passing game.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. I mean, you just so. So I look at that, and then I’m trying to think about this. All right, you look at the first four years of the career of. Of Darnold, 21 and 35 record, 63 touchdowns, 56 interceptions. I didn’t even get in the. The fumbles. There’s a whole bunch of fumbles, 21 and 35. That tells you enough. Last two years, he goes. He knocks out 14 and threes back to back with two different teams, none of which was considered a superpower. Minnesota, good team. Seattle, good team, but nothing great. 28 and 6, 60 touchdowns, 26 interceptions. Super Bowl.
David Campbell: What does that all mean?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, it’s a little bit like that. Aha. But now, is there something here that, you know, maybe, just maybe might indicate something? You know, these guys, sometimes they just end up with the right place at the right time, and they. They develop. And I still see the Browns, I thought, were sort of onto something in the beginning when they had Kenny Pickett in, you know, to try to find a reclamation project. But they. They bailed out on it. Flacco wasn’t a particular reclamation project. He was just an older quarterback. They bailed on Pickett. I am in favor of trying it again. Not with two guys, but one guy to come in, because, see, I just don’t consider Gabriel. He’s a practice squad number three guy. But I would like to see them bring in someone like trade for a Mac Jones. You know, I know Mary Kay really likes Malik Willis, and, you know, you look at his stats, and they’re pretty impressive. I mean, it’s. It’s very limited sample size with Green Bay. He’s completed, like, you know, 70 out of 89 passes, and it’s. Is that a guy that you might, you know, be interested in? I don’t. I don’t know. I mean, you. I don’t think you could just say, oh, we got Monk. And Monkin said to Shador, hey, we wanted to draft you in. Baltimore didn’t want to draft them in the first round. They wanted to draft them low and just say, that’s it. But if Monkin is a really good offensive coordinator, as I believe he is. You know, do you want to do that? I mean a couple of free agent quarterbacks, you know, Daniel Jones is one, Marcus Mariota, you know, it’s a, it’s sort of the same aisle. But Mac Jones, you know, he went to. Seems like some of these guys that run through San Francisco put themselves together. Any thoughts?
David Campbell: No, I think that’s a great formula. Bring somebody like that in and, and see what happens. It’s so many times in sports we see a Terry where a change of scenery and getting away from the New York jets sometimes is. Is a good way to turn a career around. So I, I think that’s really smart. And then you got the young guys and see you and see where it go.
Terry Pluto: Like Mac Jones his rookie year he was 10 and 7 as a starter, 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, completed, 67 of his passes. It looked like they had found a quarterback. Then the next two years just the bottom dropped out of everything there and then, you know, he ended up with the 49ers. Last year they signed him to a two year contract I thought was interesting. And I guess my point is that I’m not ready to just say hey, we just want to keep, keep the status quo here at quarterback.
David Campbell: Yeah, they can’t. They need options and I think they know that. So. All right, we’ll take a quick break here, Terry.
Terry Pluto: Sure.
David Campbell: I think you said you told me you want to talk about Chase Delauder today. So we’ll do that a little bit and there’s some stuff about chickens that we need to get into. I guess we’ll get into that and more when we return. Terry’s talking. All right, we are back on Terry’s Talking. Don’t forget about Terry’s newsletter. Go to cleveland.com Pluto go to the Blue Bar at the top comes out every Wednesday. A great read every week. Lots of stuff in there. Well worth your time. Go check it out. So, all right, what do you want to say about Chase dilauer and do you want me to set this up? Maybe this is the question you wanted to bring up. There was a Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga on our Guardians beat were talking about Chase de Lauder and they got into a little back and forth on whether they should the Guardian should throw him out there on day one and go with it or like, and you’ve talked about this a lot, how awful it is to hit in Cleveland in April and early May and should they wait? Was that what you wanted to get into or was there something else?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, and then also debate about service time, should you wait till middle of May or whatever. First of all, he was good enough to throw in the middle of the playoffs without playing a big league game. Before that, he’s good enough to open the season in March in Cleveland, period. Secondly, the moment he’s healthy, I want him on the field because we don’t know how long this is going to last. I don’t mean to be negative, but we’ve seen how many Hammett bone in his hand. I forgot all the different injuries, along with all the foot stuff. So this guy, I fell in baseball love with them. I saw him in a doubleheader in his first pro year at Lake county, and I just thought. And then I talked to him after a while for quite a bit. He’s about all the right stuff. He played at James Madison, is only Division one Grant, and he. When he wasn’t pitching, he closed some of the games because he throws 91 to 92. You saw the Rocket arm in the playoffs. I saw it at Lake County. He’s got a weird scissor swing, as they call it. But I just think he’s a hitter. You put him in there and you just. You ride that as long as you can. You have no outfielders other than Stephen Kwan. You have no outfielders. You know, George Valeria, you have all these other guys.
David Campbell: So that makes sense.
Terry Pluto: It’s just he’s an athlete. And now if he were. If there was something in his personality or something else, but there isn’t. It’s just health.
David Campbell: Well, and we had an email about this last week. Terry, if the Guardians don’t want to risk, quote, unquote, signing a bat as a free agent, like, this is what it is. This is what you have to do, is take a risk on Taste of Water. Yeah. And just. And just push. Go all in on them and see how it goes.
Terry Pluto: I mean, they’re excited. I spent a lot of time talking to Mike Chernoff, the GM of the Guardians, at just he and I with the Jose thing, and they’re very excited about seeing Valero. You know, he’s been one of their. Another one, the one of their prospects forever. A lot of injuries.
David Campbell: Now.
Terry Pluto: I’m not as high in Valero as I am on the water, but I will admit now the stats weren’t all that great when he came up, but he didn’t look like overwhelmed. You know, there were not a ton of strikeouts or anything. So, you know, fine. Look at that. And he did mention to me in passing he said, you know, we’ve used one burrito because he knows I like burrito. He goes, you know, we’ve used Juan burrito some in right field. I’m like, oh, he offered this. I didn’t ask that. So I. That’s when I always listen when they come up, throw something out there. They. That means they’re thinking about it. And he would, you know, one. He had a. He had a rough year last year because he. He broke his thumb early and then he pulled a hamstring. Now he’s played some in winter ball. He’s supposed to be healthy. You know, he was the guardians 20, 24 minor league player of the year, according to Baseball America. So this guy’s got a lot going for him. He’s a guy that they got in the Nolan Jones trade, by the way, Nolan Jones is back. I’m really excited about that. I don’t know how you feel. No, I. I can’t watch. No, I can’t watch Nolan Jones anymore. I’m just. Sorry. I just. Why is he here? You know, it’s just. Oh, I. It’s nothing personal. It’s just watch him play. I don’t want to hear any more about exit velocity. You have to get some hits. You know whose velocity stinks? Stephen Quanze. He. His is. Hit him where they ain’t. You know, we. Willie Keeler or whatever it was.
David Campbell: Get that on ball. Right.
Terry Pluto: Get bad on ball, right.
David Campbell: All right. I teased chickens before the break.
Terry Pluto: Yes.
David Campbell: I had never heard of this, Terry. The sod it defense that you.
Terry Pluto: I think you didn’t. Well, of course, you have done a lot. You haven’t done a lot of prison ministry and all that talked about with the guys. I mean, there’s a lot of things like a guy that go in and out of the county jail, where I did ministry for all those years, and we’re not doing it anymore. It stopped in 2020, but 18 years of. Now we’re just at the homeless shelter. But like a guy that came in and out, he was a frequent flyer. They called him that. And the side of defense is the. The. Some other dude did it defense.
David Campbell: All right.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that was a short one. That’s a soda. You know, what’s he saying? They go, oh, it’s a soda. Some other dude did it. Well, realizing that these in big trouble, the Ortiz defense team, this is like right out of law and order, decided we’re not. We don’t want to be tried with class A. This guy’s in deep, you know, so we Want to be on our own. And I think they’re going to probably try the sod at defense here. Go. We were just sitting around, you know, Class A is making all the calls and, you know, what can you give us? And we’ll give you him. I’m just, you know, maybe I’ll watch a lot of Law and Order, but I, you know, and I read some of the Michael Conley books because he writes both about detectives and also lawyers. I love his mysteries, too. And. But it is, it’s. That looks like that’s where that’s going. And I always like that. I like that defense they offered on for, you know, the chicken thing for class, say, well, oh, he was really talking. And as it was like. And as you know, he is a very prominent figure in the Dominican cockfighting world. I’m like, I. I didn’t know that.
David Campbell: I guess.
Terry Pluto: I mean, you learn something every day.
David Campbell: This is what lawyers are paid to do. It’s what they’re.
Terry Pluto: I mean, you need to come up.
David Campbell: With every possible defense to get your guy out of it. That’s what they’re paid for. And they have to put up a vigorous defense.
Terry Pluto: Now, 28 games or 38 games now there’s. I forgot how many games at the pitches or something.
David Campbell: It’s more.
Terry Pluto: I don’t know. Yeah, granted, you got to remember when they do any of these things, it’s called the, the pile on effect. You know, they overcharge these guys where their charges and what they did. So, you know, all right, we’ve just done all the things that, you know, you’re innocent until guilty or whatnot. But I do think that the soda defense is popping up there with, With Ortiz.
David Campbell: Yeah, well, it’s. It’s not going to help their case that there are. There’s timing involved here in the text work. Anyway. If you read the indictment, the evidence they have is like it was at certain times of games. Yeah, you’re gonna have a tough time. And we’re looking at the May trial coming up pretty soon here.
Terry Pluto: So there’s, you know, the big thing.
David Campbell: For the Law and Order episode. Right.
Terry Pluto: Yeah. These are two, as they would say, you know, to be called two assets that. Okay. Even if you didn’t have them, you can’t really trade them because they could be either tied up in court for a long time or suspended or whatever. But, you know, so that was it.
David Campbell: Bum, bum.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: All right. We do have a Jose email here. I think last week we were talking. We want to try and spotlight some emails today. So I thought we’ll try to get it. This one is from Steve C. And he says. Hey, Terry and David, here’s a question I don’t think was asked at the Jose Ramirez press conference. Jose, do you talk to your teammates or other players around baseball about the places you want to play? Do you think your decision and your happiness with this town and this team might have an impact on the guardians appeal to other players, Terry, like they do in the NBA. Do MLB players recruit other players to their teams? I’m curious about the dynamic of the Ramirez contract on the guardian’s ability to retain or attract players. Question number two. I once thought Jim Thome would never leave Cleveland. Should fans realistically prepare themselves that this Jose Ramirez decision is the one and only time a Cleveland player across any sport will make this choice? So what about the first one, Terry, you think MLB players like Jose? Word gets around why he’s happy here?
Terry Pluto: Yeah, I think it does. But not like the NBA. The NBA. Because in baseball, I know they have the summer leagues and travel leagues, but it’s nothing like the AAU circuit that these kids grow up in in basketball. And I think that leads to a lot. They’ve been recruiting players and all that since they were 12 or 13 with big tennis shoe money behind these tournaments and teams. So that’s like first nature to them. And so I think. I don’t think it has a big bearing. I mean, that’s. You’re just not going to see this thing with Jose again, that’s all. You’re just not my newsletter. I can’t even explain the whole breakdown of the 70 million spread out other than the fact that it runs. It starts in 2036 and it ends in 2051. And it goes from 1 million up to 7 million and 6 million, 5 million 400, all that kind of stuff. And it ends when he’s 59. It’s like the world’s greatest 401k. And so he has that. But that’s him. And he. Now clearly, if you watch him in the dugout, you know, in between innings, he’s down there with the iPad. He’s got those guys around him. I mean, he’s talking ball, that’s for sure. And. But I just. These guys are not wired like Jose. And as his agent said, he’s why he’s wired different.
David Campbell: Yeah. And they’re going to go where the money is. I think that’s.
Terry Pluto: Yeah.
David Campbell: 99 times out of 100, they’re going to go where the money is. And Jose’s the one.
Terry Pluto: And also Jose, remember, he’s immune from pressure from the union too. He does not care what the union says. A lot of these guys do. Stephen Kwan is the guardians union representative. Key point.
David Campbell: All right, then to Steve’s second question. We’re not, we’re not going to see that. We’re not, we’re not going to see this happen very often, right?
Terry Pluto: No.
David Campbell: Jose is the only one, any athlete in Cleveland. They’re probably not going to stick around. We’ve seen that historically.
Terry Pluto: No, and it’s, it’s not a knock on the other guys. Even, even Paul Dolen said that. I’m not knocking the other guys. You’re just celebrating what when you have something special.
David Campbell: All right, I’ve been saving this one. Yes, it’s. This one is from Terry Ramey from North Carolina. And Terry has an interesting trade proposal that I wanted to throw out. We probably got a couple of minutes here to go through it. He says, hey Dave and Terry, I was listening to your podcast and I heard you saying the guards need to trade from their strength to get a good right handed hitter.
Terry Pluto: Okay.
David Campbell: They have some young pitchers. Nikhazi, maybe Austin Peterson, Logan Allen, Joey Cantillo. I would package up whatever young pitchers it would take to add with Stephen Kwan and get Andy Pahes from the Dodgers. He has everything we need in this lineup. And the Dodgers have a plethora of young outfielders ready to move up to the majors. I love quantity, but he isn’t going to. Well, anyway, this would be a way that. What Terry’s saying is they could, they could package him, get this done and the Dodgers would be interested in this because it gives them some pitching for the future. What do you think?
Terry Pluto: Yep. And so he would Quan and some rookie. Some rookie pitchers is that. Or young pitchers.
David Campbell: Yeah, some of the young pitching prospects. And I know you like Nikhazi. I know that he’s been one of your guys.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, that group was a. Well, Lisa, he didn’t. Messick’s my favorite guy of the young pitchers and I liked him by the way, before he even came up. I saw him in that prospects game and I like him. I talk about, you know, how do you say his name pages. I always get that. Right.
David Campbell: His.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, Cuba has. Yeah, Cuba. He’s got an exceptional arm and he’s right handed hitter now. He was terrible in the playoffs. He was like 5 for 51 the postseason. And maybe that will help the Dodgers think about moving him. But I mean, Frank, if you’re the Dodgers, this kid I think what, he had 27 homers or something like that. Your payroll so high and you have a guy that’s only two years in the big leagues, you probably would want to keep him, but they don’t care. Maybe they think, you know, Kwon brings them something that he didn’t have. Now he played mostly center, not all, but mostly.
David Campbell: Yeah, 27 homers, 86 RBI last year. He’s 25 years old and I think he’s up for arbitration for the first time after this upcoming season. So you’re right about the team control and everything. That’s a big part of the formula, especially when they make a deal. So.
Terry Pluto: Yeah, sure. And David, I think the other aspect you look at that is. The. We’ve had all these rumors over the years about trades with the Dodgers. They were going hot and heavy on for Lindor and I know there’s some others and they seem like they never make one with the Dodgers. I don’t know why, but you know, they make trades with Colorado and they make trades with, you know, Toronto and some of these others. But if you’re the guardians and you’re sitting there going, well, what are we going to do with Quan? I mean, Quan is really good because when you roll his defense into it, I mean he, he’s, he’s a, he’s, he’s really, he is an all star caliber player because I mean he usually is the, they have that run save stats. It’s not the be all and end all, but it’s, it’s relevant. And he usually has more run saves than any other outfielder in the majors. And we’ve seen it. When that ball heaven helped the guy that plays left field after Quan, I’ll tell you that you’ll go, my goodness, is that guy good? Because you’ll see the difference.
David Campbell: Yeah, I mean, I should, I guess what I’m saying.
Terry Pluto: I’d explore it if I were them.
David Campbell: Yeah. I just. The Dodgers. So Kyle Tucker is going to be in one outfield spot and Tioscar Hernandez would be the other probably. And if you put PA has in center like and he’s under team control, I, I just don’t know if the.it would take a lot to get him out for the reasons you said, Terry. I think they’re loaded and he, he could probably be their everyday center field.
Terry Pluto: I don’t know how much they care about young pitchers though.
David Campbell: No, that’s true. Yeah. They’ll just buy whatever they need. Right?
Terry Pluto: They have, I don’t know what, seven guys or some Crazy thing, you know, they’ll get the next top pitcher out of Japan for 200 million or whatever it takes. And the other thing I wanted to mention, whenever I bring something up like this. Oh, you’re just making excuses for the Guardians or whatever, but there was a story out of St. Louis this week about the Cardinals new TV deal. They went off of the FanDuel or whatever it was onto the MLB streaming just like the Guardians, and they took what amounted to a 20 million dollar haircut from about 60 million or 40 million. And I was talking to somebody close to the situation here and I think it was cool. That was very similar to what happened here, if not even more extreme here because the Cardinals have a much brighter network out there in the Midwest than here. And that’s why I wonder if these other teams that are going on to the streaming because they’ve lost those lucrative contracts with these cable companies are going to, if this could be something else. He says the Dodgers signing all these guys, it could force the owners to get tougher and try to get a salary cap. It could.
David Campbell: I mean that’s, that’s something that is probably a huge part of what the Guardians are doing off this offseason. That, that loss in revenue, it probably explains a lot, right?
Terry Pluto: Yeah. Last year they had it and they have it again. And now they really know how much money they could get. One person was trying to explain to me has to do with they get a slice of the action of the streaming video or I don’t quite get it, but it isn’t like before. It’s like the fanduel and the Bally’s are for that. We will buy the rights to 155 games. And here is 70 million or here’s 55 million. And you knew you had that coming. And those days are gone. This is all based on how many of these streaming things you sell.
David Campbell: Yeah, you know, they sold the ads, they took care of everything. You just took the money. And now it’s all internal with mlb.
Terry Pluto: If you notice, even if they were selling some ads on the streaming, they had what we call a lot of house ads on those games last year. You know, advertising their own products. Yeah.
David Campbell: And so all the PSAs, the public service announcements, all that kind of stuff.
Terry Pluto: All that kind of stuff, Yep.
David Campbell: All right. We started talking last week about Todd Monkin and his love of all kinds of football games when he was a kid. I would love to keep getting those from our listeners. I’m gonna save them up for our next podcast. We’re Gonna be off next week, but we’ll be back in two weeks and I want to get a bunch of those together. There’s a lot of people sending in some really fun stratomatic ones and everything. But we will end on this one today. Terry. It’s from John Kinsley and John says, hey, Terry. Longtime reader and first time ever emailing a comment, let alone calling in on somebody’s show. I just returned from a mission trip to el Salvador, my third, and have been completely away from the news. I’m 65 years old, third generation dentist, still practicing in Rocky river, doing what I was born to do professionally, a passionate Cleveland sports fan, and I even have the disease of being a Browns fan. I just read it’s your fourth and one every day piece on Todd Monk, and I must say I’m really starting to warm up to our new coach. On my flight back from El Salvador last night, I watched the movie miracle about the 1980 Olympic hockey team. As you know, Herb Brooks looked to change the culture of the U.S. hockey team in a short period of time with a bunch of good, basically college aged men, while targeting the Soviet national team, who many of them had played for years together. Although a tall task, Herb Brooks promised the higher ups who hired him to coach the team that the US Would be. It would be the best conditioned team. No screwing around, completely focused. If you haven’t watched the movie in a while, watch it. Although completely different sports, the theme seemed to me centered around accountability, team first and one common goal. My hope is that you could suggest to the Browns coaches to watch it as a group and then they show the film to the entire Browns team at the beginning of training camp. Very strong message and of course, a great ending. Keep up the great work. Thanks for that, John. So I wanted to get this in because we’re on the. We’re in the middle of the Winter Olympic.
Terry Pluto: Take that away. You’re the hockey guy. But I remember. I’ll tell you, I only remember one scene.
David Campbell: Which one?
Terry Pluto: There. But he’s really angry at the team and they’re doing. It would be like line drills in basketball, but I don’t. What is it in hockey where you’re.
David Campbell: Yeah. Suicides or line drills. Yep, it’s all the same.
Terry Pluto: He just kept saying again and again, and these guys are dropping and they’re throwing up and they’re falling over. That’s what I remember.
David Campbell: Yeah. And there was. They were in Norway. And when her Brook saw them looking up into the stands at the girls, he was not happy. And that’s the rest is history. I did want to mention, Terry, there’s a new series out on Netflix and it’s time to the Olympics, but it’s called Miracle the boys of 80. They just put it out, but everybody knows the story. But there’s a lot of stuff in there, kind of behind the scenes stuff with the players families. And they showed some of the players footage and taped them watching some of the footage in real time that they had never seen. So it’s worth checking out. I think it’s about an hour and a half long, but I would recommend that. So all right, that’s going to do it for this week’s Terry’s Talk. And we are going to be off next week, but we will return again, again, again in two weeks time. Don’t forget to check out Terry’s newsletter, cleveland.com Pluto you can see the blue bar at the top. And please send us your stratomatic or other fun sports game stories@sportslevel.com Also, if you have any thoughts for the podcast, sportsleveland.com put Terry’s talking in the subject line. We will try and get it on an upcoming podcast. Looking forward to seeing you all in two weeks. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time on Terry’s Talking.
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