CLEVELAND, Ohio — Following Nae’Qwan Tomlin’s promotion to a standard NBA contract, the Wine and Gold Talk podcast with Ethan Sands, Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins dive into another win for Cleveland’s player development pipeline — a system built to uncover low-cost, high-energy contributors around an expensive core — and who could be the organization’s next project as they look to fill their final two-way spot.
Takeaways:
Cavaliers’ Player Development Continued Success
The Cleveland Cavaliers’ decision to convert Nae’Qwan Tomlin’s two-way deal into a standard NBA contract exemplifies the front office’s successful and necessary player development strategy. The hosts see this as a well-earned reward for Tomlin, who made himself a “necessity” through his energy, versatility, and toughness. This move follows a pattern of the Cavs finding and elevating low-cost, high-impact players like Dean Wade, Sam Merrill, and Lamar Stevens. This “pipeline” approach is crucial for fortifying the roster around high-priced stars like Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, especially while operating in the second apron of the luxury tax. Tomlin’s promotion opens a new two-way spot, with G-Leaguer Norchad Omier mentioned as a potential candidate who fits the mold of a developmental player with a key “translatable skill” — in his case, elite rebounding.
Evan Mobley’s Anticipated Offensive Evolution with James Harden
Following the All-Star break, the podcast anticipates a significant evolution in Evan Mobley’s offensive role, fueled by both tactical changes and personal motivation. There is a belief within the Cavaliers organization that Mobley feels snubbed by not being named an All-Star replacement, which could serve as a powerful motivator for the second half of the season. Stylistically, the team plans to shift Mobley’s usage in pick-and-roll situations with new point guard James Harden. The goal is to move from a profile that was “90% pop and 10% roll” to a more balanced 60/40 split. This adjustment is designed to leverage Harden’s elite playmaking to unlock Mobley’s potential as a dynamic roller to the basket, adding a critical dimension to the offense that has been underutilized.
NBA Stars’ Egos Blamed for the Decline of the Slam Dunk Contest
The hosts express disappointment with the current state of the NBA All-Star Weekend, particularly the decline of the Slam Dunk Contest. A primary theory presented is that the contest’s lack of superstar participation stems from player egos. High-profile players are believed to avoid the event not due to injury concerns, but because they are unwilling to risk the reputational damage of losing to a lesser-known G-League player or role player. In contrast, losing the three-point contest to another established star carries no such stigma, explaining its continued popularity among the league’s elite. The speakers suggest that the only way to revive the dunk contest’s prestige is for a group of four or five top-tier, athletic stars to agree to compete simultaneously, thereby mitigating the individual risk of a potential upset.
James Harden’s Arrival Creates a Late-Game “Conundrum” for Opponents
The acquisition of James Harden has immediately made the Cavaliers’ fourth-quarter offense significantly more dynamic and difficult for opponents to defend. The hosts highlight a “conundrum” for defenses, which can no longer simply send double-teams at Donovan Mitchell in late-game situations without being punished by Harden’s playmaking. This is evidenced by the team’s “otherworldly” 142 offensive rating in the fourth quarters of their first two games with Harden. The ability to have two elite creators on the floor forces opponents into difficult decisions, opening up 4-on-3 advantages where players like Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen can operate as playmakers out of the short roll. This newfound offensive versatility is seen as a crucial asset for late-game execution moving forward.
Blatant League-Wide Tanking Criticized as “Embarrassing” for the NBA
The podcast concludes with a strong critique of the “blatant” and “rampant” tanking occurring across the NBA, using the Cavaliers’ upcoming game against the Washington Wizards as a prime example. The hosts decry the practice of teams strategically sitting star players or resting them during “winning time” in the fourth quarter simply to secure losses and improve their draft lottery position. Teams like the Wizards and the Utah Jazz are specifically called out for their transparent tanking methods, such as listing a multitude of players on the injury report or pulling top performers late in close games. This trend is described as “embarrassing” for the league and a problem that commissioner Adam Silver needs to address, as it undermines the competitive integrity of the regular season.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today fresh off the excruciatingly long road trip, Chris Theodore, cleveland.com Cavs beat reporter and Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com columnist and guys, we have some Cavs order of business to handle today. The Cavs have officially stamped all 15 roster spots by bumping up Nae’Qwan Tomlin to an NBA standard deal after being on a two way contract for the last year and a half roughly with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Guys, I think this is a much earned honor for him and an opportunity for him to continue to grow with this team and and depending on the health of the organization and the players around him, especially with Evan Mobley and Dean Wade being out, I think this is an opportunity for him to continue to grow his game, continue to build trust with Kenny Atkinson and the roster. How did you guys perceive this being another step forward? Kind of another pipeline oriented story from the Cleveland Cavaliers undrafted G League 10 Day 22 way NBA standard deal. Kind of a little storyline that the Cavs have had working over the last couple of years and Nae’Qwan Tomlin is the latest.
Chris Fedor: I think the first thing is this is kind of how the front office has separated themselves. This is the way that they have fortified their roster despite having so many high priced guys on the roster. Despite the fact being in the second apron, having these kinds of success stories. Before it was Nae’Qwan, it was Dean Wade. Before it was Dean Wade it was Sam Merrill. Before it was any one of those guys it was Lamar Stevens. So it’s like if you’re going to pay as much as you do for Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, you have to find cheap playable help guys that can be part of your rotation and contribute on a nightly basis and be full time players for you that aren’t making 15 to 20 million dollars. And Nae’Qwan helps that. Craig Porter Jr. Helps that. Dean Wade certainly helps that as well. Because you’re in a point right now in the NBA where it’s like what are you giving us, how much are you contributing and are you matching what we’re giving you from a salary standpoint and if these teams start to feel like no, you’re not matching that, we’re not getting return on that value, then they’re going to be out the door or they’re going to have to go a different direction. So, so that’s the first thing. The second thing is Nae’Qwan earned this Nae’Qwan deserves this. Nae’Qwan made himself a necessity. That’s what it came down to as he approached the 50 game threshold. The Cavs are like, we need this guy. He’s in our every night rotation. The energy, the versatility, the tenacity, the toughness. When we look forward toward the playoffs, we have a spot for him. We have a specific role that we have carved out for him. And Nae’Qwan did that. And yeah, the Cavs were part of it and they have a great player development staff. And look at all the different success stories and the way that Jalen Tyson has emerged in Craig Porter Jr. But Nae’Qwan has earned this. He has come from relative obscurity, not even playing competitive basketball up until the last six, seven years and doing all the things behind the scenes that he had to do to get himself to this point. And when you become a needed commodity on a championship level team, that is nothing that anybody can take away from you.
Jimmy Watkins: To me, make one’s most important commodity that he brings right now is size. Eden and I were talking about this last night. Like some of these lineups that Kenny’s trotting out there right now, these four guard lineups, it’s, it’s Dean Wade heal up soon, buddy. They really need you on the wing. And the future of that position, the wing position, is really uncertain for the Cavs right now. I mean, Dean Wade could be a free agent going forward. Max Strusk could be a free agent going forward. Of course, Jaylon Tyson appears to have locked down one of those spots.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Jimmy Watkins: But after that, I mean, I guess it also depends on how you classify Sam Merrill. The Cavs have been playing him at the two, but he’s, he’s a guy that I would think guards more ones and twos than twos and threes size wise, again, depending on the size of the twos and the threes are. But like, there’s a ton of opportunity for upward mobility for Nae’Qwan Tomlin. Like a future for him is typically with these guys that are energy guys and they struggle with the jump shot. I’m a little bit close minded on how much they can improve, but because of Nae’Qwan’s specific fact background, I feel like he’s so much more of a blank slate. And I feel like a lot of the reason why guys struggle with their jumpers when they come into the league is because of the bad habits they developed earlier in their careers. Right. They were taught the wrong way or they weren’t strong enough when they were kids. So they were, you know, shooting it from the hip or whatever. Nae’Qwan Tomlin doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. Right. So you’ve already seen him in recent weeks hitting a few more and I’m a little bit more optimistic on, on that end with guys like him that basically some of the first training they’ve ever received is the best training in the world. Right. There’s room for growth there and like I said, there’s, there’s room for him on this roster to carve out an even bigger role in, in the future down the road.
Chris Fedor: Yeah.
Ethan Sands: And I think when you talk about just him growing continuously like he’s a sponge and learning at the highest level, as you mentioned, is extremely helpful for that because he has the best training staff, the best nutritionists, all of these different things that go along with that. But to your point, Jimmy, the size is something that we’ve been talking about. Obviously, as I mentioned earlier, Dean Wade and Evan Mobley still being sidelined with injury at least for the Washington Wizards game and hopefully at least Dean Wade will be able to make it back by after the All Star break. But the Cavs do have a spot open. But it’s a two way spot. No, it cannot go to Killian Hayes. He is ineligible for that spot. So a player that I think the Cavs could utilize to be a two way player is Nor Chad o’. Neir. He’s in his first season in the NBA as a G League player with the Cleveland Charge and according to the G League stats database, he has played in 29 games with the Cleveland Charge this season after being undrafted in 2025, he’s averaging 29.3 minutes a game, 18.7 points, 16% from the field, 22.9% from three on just 1.2 attempts per game from out there, he’s averaging 11.2 rebounds per game, one steal and 1.1 blocks. He’s between 6 foot 5 and 6 foot 7 depending on where you’re looking. But I think he’s been playing a lot of big man minutes for them in the Cleveland Charge in the G League and I think it would be interesting to see how he would match up with the four minutes if he were to get that opportunity because of the potential necessity for size at his position and also understanding that the Cavs do have Tristan and Aruna and they do have Emmanuel Miller and all these guys that are trying to step up into their two way roles and, and finding a place for them. But when it comes to the pipeline that we talked about that Nae’Qwan Tomlin, Craig Porter Jr. And I think we missed this one. But obviously it’s not with the Cavs in particular. But Matt Strus is of that pipeline too. Having to come up as an undrafted play in the G League a little bit and then get his own role, find his niche, obviously doing that in Miami. But for Nor Chad, I think he’s a guy that could and probably should earn the two way spot that has been left open by Nae’Qwan Tomlin.
Chris Fedor: Well, the Cavs are going to do their due diligence and they’re going to look all across the NBA and they’re going to look all across the G League because that’s what they do. Dalen Terry is somebody who has NBA playing experience. He just got a two way contract recently. That’s somebody who was on the Cavs radar obviously. So is there a player like that outside the organization that they could potentially pluck away and, and put on a two way? I guess it’s possible, but the history of this organization has been reward your own guys if you believe that they’re worth it and if you believe that they deserve that bigger opportunity and if you believe they could theoretically help you, you know, whoever they sign to this, this two way slot is going to have a prorated deal. The number of days that they’re going to be able to play at the NBA level is probably going to be around like 15 to 18 or something like that. You know, at the time that they brought Tristan and Aruna up from the Cleveland charge, his number was 22. So it’s going to be less than that obviously. So I think something between 15 and 18 and who makes the most sense for them based on their current roster construction, based on developmental opportunities. But they do have a history, like you said Ethan, they have a history of rewarding their own guys, whether it’s with 10 day contracts, whether it’s worth these four year non guaranteed contracts, this one to Nae’Qwan or you know, two way slots. They looked around just a couple of weeks ago they looked around the G League and they looked around the NBA and they said we think Tristin and Aruna is most worthy of this. We think if we have to play him in an NBA game in a pinch, he won’t be completely out of place. So if that’s how they felt about it when they elevated Tristan and Aruna, it’s hard for me to look at the situation and say, well there’s somebody outside this organization, somebody that’s just chilling in the G League that they need to get their hands on. So I do think there is a strong likelihood that they just reward somebody else from the Cleveland charge. But you know, the way that this team has fortified this roster throughout the course of the trade deadline, you know it’s going to be hard enough for Keon Ellis to get consistent minutes, right? It’s going to be hard enough for Craig Porter Jr. To get consistent minutes. What happens with Dean Wade slash Max Strus when Max finally recovers from his off season foot surgery? These are legitimate questions that the Cavs have. So whoever it is that gets this two way slot is probably more in the developmental range as opposed to the, hey, help the big club.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, you’re trying to find the next Nae’Qwan Tomlin, right?
Chris Fedor: That’s right.
Jimmy Watkins: You’re placing a small bet on this person becoming the next Nae’Qwan Tomlin. And I think Nae’Qwan’s a good test case to use for this because he’s like, the Cavs kind of have a type with these types of players. They like long, rangy energy, guys with it, maybe undefined skill sets. I mean, the Cavs have a type. The NBA has a type with these kinds of guys. Like if we can project you forward as a passable 3 and D wing kind of guy, if you have that kind of frame on you, we’re interested. We’re interested. You show us, you show us the size and activity. We will try to meet you in the middle with the skill work that we can give you. Right. So not going to pretend to be an expert on the Cavs Julie Ross, but I think Marshad fits that sort of mold just by virtue of him being in, in house on the charge already. They have clearly already already found something that they like about him. But I think when we think about these two way slots, that’s how we think about it. Like Chris was saying, like it’s, it’s a developmental tract. And the Cavs have been really good at identifying the kinds of body types that can be successful in the NBA. And they’ve, you know, the skill work is kind of on the player. But the Cavs clearly have a system that works that has been producing a track record of guys who when they identify them, can carve out roles for themselves. Down the road. Of course, down the road. But that’s, that’s what I’m thinking about it.
Chris Fedor: I’ll also say that they look for a translatable skill. It doesn’t have to be a guy who can do everything right and they’re not looking at what a guy can’t do, it’s what can you do. And the translatable skill. Look, if you think back to the past, Dean Wade had elite feet for somebody his size. And that’s something that the Cavs noticed and they thought, hey, there is potential for this guy to be a really, really good defender. And he’s got all these different intangibles that translate to winning. And Craig Porter Jr. For his size, the shot blocking, the deflections, the steals, the rebounding, for somebody his size, that translates. Sam Merrill, hello, prolific shooter. And, and for Nae’Qwan, it’s the same thing. He’s got an elite motor, he’s got elite bounce. And the length that he brings, like he’s all arms and legs, like his limbs are just flying all over the place, getting in the passing lanes, deflecting rebounds, just being as pesky as, as he is. So that, that is something that the Cavs have a history of, like, what do you do? What’s your thing? What do you do? Well, and how does that translate to the NBA level? And they identified those qualities with, with Nae’Qwan, and it has allowed him to be a fixture of this every night rotation for a team that has championship aspirations. Which is just crazy to think about considering where he was on this depth chart at the very beginning of the year.
Ethan Sands: And for nor Chad, that that skill could be rebounding. Being 6 foot 5 to 6 foot 7, based on the site that you’re looking at for his statistics, he is averaging at least a double double.
Chris Fedor: And similarly he got like every single rebound imaginable that went anywhere near him. Yeah.
Ethan Sands: And it’s just the physicality that he plays with, no matter who he’s going up against. And again, that kind of goes back to the point that I was making earlier about how obviously it’s a developmental role and we’re not sure how he would be utilized with the Cavs and even if at all, if given a two way opportunity because the Cavs are one game away from the All Star break. Hopefully Dean Wade and Evan Mobley will be healthy by the time that it’s over. All these different things, but in the effect that they’re not having more size on the roster, especially when you have so many guards already with Teone Ellis, Dennis Schroeder, you got Donovan, you got James Harden, you have a plethora of guards on the roster. I think having another wing slash, big man, slash, rebounder, slash, defender would be beneficial for this team. And obviously Tristan and Aruna already is on a two way deal and the Cavs got Emmanuel Miller from the Chicago Bulls in their three team deal. So there are other options already, but you can bolster that even further by knocking up nor Chad or Mirror to a two way deal. And again as Chris and I have mentioned on this podcast already, rewarding guys that are already in your system and have worked their way up to almost being too good to being in the G League. But that handles the Cleveland Cavaliers business of today’s podcast. And as I mentioned a little bit earlier, the All Star break is coming up and there’s a lot of things that the Cavs are going to be participating in with Donovan Mitchell being a All Star reserve but also participating in the three point contest like he did last year. The other portion of this is the fact that there are so many events and I don’t know about you guys, but I’m not necessarily tuning in for the spectacle that is the All Star Game this year because you talk about the Slam Dunk competition. Slam Dunk competition has four contestants, Carter, Bryant, Jackson Hayes, Kashan Johnson and Jace Richardson. All four of these guys are making their debut at the All Star Break with the Slam Dunk contest. Two of them are rookies because they simply could not get people to sign up for the dunk contest. The NBA three point competition is a little bit different and this is where it gets interesting. The participants are Devin Booker, Con Knippel, Tyrese Maxey, Jamal Murray, Bobby Portis Jr. Norman Powell, Gotovan Mitchell as I mentioned, and here’s the kicker, Damian Lillard, who has not played a single game this season because he’s recovering from an Achilles injury last year, is a participant in the three point contest. And then obviously we talk about the overall game on Sunday for the USA Stars, USA Stripes and Team World that will compete in a round robin mini tournament with four 12 minute games for the 75th NBA All Star Game. Guys, it just feels like we’re throwing our hands up and like I don’t know what people are going to watch. So we’re going to try a little bit of everything and see what we what sticks. What do you guys think about this All Star Weekend and is it really just a break for everybody involved because there’s even players who are dealing with minor injuries who are going to sit out the All Star Game because they don’t want to risk further injury and it’s not that important to them.
Chris Fedor: I think it’s just the NBA searching, trying to figure out what is it that we can do to make this as interesting as possible? What is it that we can do to make it more competitive? And they’ve brainstormed a bunch of different ideas over basically the last decade, and they have tried to find, okay, what is it that’s going to appeal most to the masses? Changing the scoring format, changing the ending, changing how the teams are constructed with the captains that they did for a little bit. Now they’re doing the us versus the world, Something that a lot of people in recent years have called for because of the influx of international talent. If you find the five best players in the NBA currently, they’re probably all international. So there’s this idea of, like, those dudes play really, really hard in most environments. They might take more pride in the fact that they could beat the US Team because you see what happens in the Olympics, you see what happens at the World Cup. How can we replicate some of that animosity, how can we replicate some of that intensity, some of that competitiveness that we haven’t gotten throughout the last 10 years in the All Star game? But it’s clear that Adam Silver and all the people that are making these decisions are just throwing things at the wall and saying, like, is this going to work? Is this not going to work? And if it doesn’t work, cool, wipe it, move on to the next thing. And if that doesn’t work, okay, cool, fine, wipe it, move on to the next thing. And I give them credit for continuing to try different things, but I think the end result is always going to be the same. This is the All Star break, emphasis on break. These dudes are exhausted. These dudes are thinking playoffs. These dudes are defined by what happens in the playoffs and what happens in the NBA finals. And they’re just not going to play like it’s a meaningful game. They can’t afford to. At least in their mind, they can’t afford to. They can’t take that risk. And they think there’s a level of, hey, let’s be a little bit showy. Fans want to see dunks and passes and long distance, three pointers and. And things that they can’t always tune in and see during a regular competitive NBA game. So they can try all these different formats and all these variations, but they’re going to end in the same place. And until you have a level of care across the NBA from these guys that make the All Star game, and you need a majority of them to have that level of care, it’s going to be what the All Star game has turned into.
Jimmy Watkins: We need more Wembies. That’s what I think.
Chris Fedor: Kyrie tried, Kobe tried. You know what I’m saying? Like, there are guys that are like, I’m gonna give this a go. Like, I want to be competitive, I want to win, but they’re just aren’t. You have one Wemby.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s true. But I like this Wemby quote. And then everyone can. Anyone can say things. Another thing to do them. Yeah, this Wemby quote from last month. I want to push the great players of the sport to play just as hard as I will. We’ll see how it goes. But if they don’t want to go hard, we’ll have to do without them. I like that attitude. I’m interested to see how it plays out. Like, if Wemby’s playing hard and no one else is, well, Wemby could embarrass you. That’s entirely possible. And maybe that could motivate somebody. Like if, like there’s a way, like, yes, Kyrie and Kobe tried, but there’s a way for Wemby to try in a way that pisses people off. Right? Like if Wemby’s going around, like if everyone else is kind of letting people drive through and dunk and shoot layups and Wemby comes in and swats somebody, or if Wemby gets the ball and like initiates contact, I think there’s an avenue. You just gotta piss somebody off. It doesn’t take much to unlock that competitive gene in these guys. So I have hope. I would also say that it bums me out and it confuses me. That’s. That’s my All Star Game take is we need more Wembies for the uslar weekend. I like the Shooting Stars. I think it’s fun. Is it a former player, a pro, current player and a WM player. They even have a. Well, it’s been a couple years. Been a couple years and now they have. I’ve heard there’s like going to be a Duke team. There’s going to be an all Duke team. They’re making it like, I don’t know. That’s the one. I like that. I appreciate that the NBA tries at the same time, if I can’t tell you what the events are, then it makes it hard for me to sell it to a layman who are predisposed to not care about this. But it’s interesting and confusing to me that the three point contest has become the headliner main event that all the stars want to participate in as opposed to the dunk contest. When the dunk contest is and always has been objectively so much cooler if you can crush it. Have we ever had a player suffer a serious injury during the dunk contest? Is that what it is? Are people afraid to miss a dunk? Like, Nate Robinson missed seven of them and he won the dunk contest one year. It’s like, it’s okay. It happened. We understand you’re trying some, some human defying stuff out there. We appreciate the effort. And it’s like, I really hope that one of these Kashad Johnson types ends up being amazing and ends up being a guy like, you know, for a while we had Mack McClung who no one could dethrone. I thought maybe over time, like, someone might want to step up one of these high profile guys and say, all right, we’re going to let this G guy keep winning our dunk contest. No, it didn’t happen. But that’s a weird switch to me. And I wonder if like, like, do we have a true superstar who can really dunk like that? Like, Giannis throws stuff down hard, but like, Giannis is a power dunker. He’s not really a style dunker. I actually think Donovan could be awesome in the dunk contest. He did win it once, but he wants to do the three point contest instead. Now. I just, I, I long for the days when the dunk contest mattered. When the Levine Gordon thing happened. I was in high school maybe, and that was a, like a watershed moment. That shows you right there leading up to those contests, like, there was another dull period of this. People were like, the dunk contest is dead. Why don’t we, why do we even do this anymore? You know, there’s no more new dunk ideas and, or all these people, these halftime performers are better dunkers than the players. Now it’s like, it really only takes one awesome year for these contests to come back. I think we just need, we need more wembies across the board.
Chris Fedor: I have a theory on this though, and I think it comes down to ego. There. There are guys in the NBA that are prolific players that look at the dunk contest and say, I don’t need to do it. I don’t need to do it. What’s it going to do for my legacy? What’s it going to do for my reputation? What’s it going to do for my career? Mac McClung is now known as dunk guy. He hasn’t done anything in the NBA. He hasn’t really done anything in the G League. He has no real NBA basketball career to speak of, but he’s known as the guy with with hops who consistently won the dunk contest. So he’s made a name for himself that kind of way. LeBron doesn’t need the dunk contest, right? Giannis doesn’t need the dumb contest. Some of these other guys don’t need the dumb contest. And it also goes back to this, I think, and I’m not saying that these guys are right or wrong for thinking this way, but it’s my theory on how they are approaching this and how they’re thinking about this. If, if you’re in the three point contest and you lose to Steph or you lose to Dame, or you lose to Clay Thompson, think about the guys that are participating. Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, no biggie. If you’re LeBron and you’re in a dunk contest against the likes of Carter Bryant, what’s the dude from Miami, Keyshaw Johnson is even on an NBA roster? I have no idea. If you’re a high profile player that has done something at the NBA level and you’re in a dunk contest against like guy number 400 in the NBA or guy number three 95 in the NBA and you lose that dunk contest to that guy, the jokes write themselves. I’m not going to say you never live that down, but that is a stain that follows you for a long time. So what would need to happen to me is like four prolific players all get together and say we need to do this at the same time. So it’s not like a huge deal. If I lose the dumb contest to you. Zach Levine losing to Aaron Gordon, no biggie. Great dunkers, good NBA players. Blake Griffin, same thing. You know what I’m saying? But like if you lose the dunk contest to these schmoes who like haven’t done anything at the NBA level and they get the bragging rights over you, the egos of the best players in the N B A will not allow for that black mark on their resume. Potentially it’s just unnecessary. Why open yourself up to that level of criticism, that level of scrutiny if you lose to these nobodies in the dunk contest.
Jimmy Watkins: So call your friends, call up John, call up Zion.
Ethan Sands: That’s what I’m saying.
Jimmy Watkins: Call up Zach Levine.
Chris Fedor: I mean four of them, all four of them have to be kind of like in the same general tier.
Jimmy Watkins: Mac McClung is dunk guy. What is Zach Lavine really? What is Zach Levine really besides dunk empty stats guy? What else are you doing, man? What else are you doing? Do the dunk contest. And if you’re. If you’re really that worried about what other people think about you in a dunk contest, then you’re not as big and tough as you say you are in the first place, man. Like, it’s kind of thing that. It’s the kind of thing that drives my, my uncles and older relatives crazy. Charmin Ultrasoft generation, man. I hate it.
Ethan Sands: You know what I think might be interesting? Even if it’s like the skills competition rather than the dunk contest or whatever, but like, if it was based on where you went to college, if you went to college, Duke versus Kentucky versus Kansas versus, like, I feel like there’s more affiliation with where they went to school, even if they were one and done. Tyrese Proctor and Donovan Mitchell were going back and forth over Louisville versus Duke the other day talking about championship rings, ACC tournament rings, all these other things. So there’s still an attraction for the players themselves. And if you make maybe have it in a skills competition where it’s like, okay, this team is going to be only dookies, right? And then the other team is going to be only, especially the blue Bloods, where everybody’s like, oh, this is point guard you. Or if you went to Kentucky, you’re almost a lock to be a successful basketball player in the NBA. All these different theories that are going around the interwebs. I just think, again, just searching for ideas for this NBA All Star weekend to be better suited for enjoyment. Because I don’t know who’s watching the NBA dunk contest as it is. Not saying anything bad about the guys who are in it, but I don’t know why you would watch that.
Chris Fedor: I think the NBA is on the right track, though, with the whole us versus the world thing, because that is something. That is a real something. Look at the documentaries of the Olympics. Look at France against the United States. Look at Team Canada and trying to show that, hey, like, we belong on this different stage. There is country pride with these guys. They all have it. If you split it up that way for a skills, can you get team Germany against Team France? Are there enough?
Ethan Sands: I don’t know.
Chris Fedor: But I do think the. The NBA is on the right track because I do think that that gets the juices flowing in a different kind of way. I do think that that theoretically brings out more competition in a different kind of way.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s also like a real storyline. We haven’t had an American MVP since, ironically, James Harden the last Time he won it. Okay. And I don’t think. I think this is going to take a little time to marinate, but you catch the U.S. losing in an, in an Olympics. Now we’re cooking.
Ethan Sands: Now we’re cooking again. I do think that Team World versus Team USA is a good start. Do I like the round robin where it’s four different games? Not necessarily. But you have to find a way to get all these different players acclimated. And especially with the injuries and all these things like Adam Silver is plucking people and obviously Kawhi had to be there because in la now you got Brandon Ingram taking replacement spots. Alpharen Shangoon as well. Like, I think it’s. It’s going to be good because of the diversity and the different avenues that everyone can go. But I think it needs better structure. And as Jimmy kind of alluded to, it’s going to take some time to weave through all the complications that could be. And obviously it’s the first year of this before things started getting right with the All Star Game. In years past, it took a while. So this is year one. We’re going to give it some grace. We’re going to see how it goes. And I think that’s why people are going to tune in and try and watch and see what happens with the round robin and all these other things. But the sideshows, people are going to tune in to see Damian Lillard. How is he doing? Is he going to come back this year? Why aren’t you coming back? But you’re participating in All Star Weekend? Donovan, can you not get hurt during a three point challenge this year? Can you redeem Sam Merrill from wearing the Money Merrill jersey last year and not playing well, not shooting well. That’s really what we’re tuning into. Obviously the Rising Stars is always fun. I continue to look back on Kyrie Irving just cooking, folks, when he was in his Rising Stars game. That will always be legendary. Jalen Tyson’s going to be in that game. Seeing how he competes against guys that he feels are not better than him or should not have been drafted ahead of him. He has a list of those players and still made it back to high school. Had a list of players that were ranked ahead of him. I think it’s going to be a fun weekend as a whole. But I want to reiterate, this is not going to be perfect by any means. So we cannot expect perfection from first year of doing something different.
Chris Fedor: It’s not like last year where the Cavs had to bring out the Jumbo jet just to bring everybody to the Cavs Invitational in the Bay because they had more representation than anybody else in the NBA. And it spoke to the talent that they had on the roster. It spoke to the great start that they got off to and the historical things that they were doing. This year, it’s just Donovan Mitchell and then Jaylen Tyson and the rising stars. But the rising stars we all know, you know, so it’s basically just Donovan Mitchell. There were people inside the organization that were upset that Evan Mobley did not get one of the replacement spots, one of the many replacement spots given all the guys that have gotten injured. And there are people inside the organization that believe that that is a chip on his shoulder for the second half of the season. We’ll see how that translates. We’ll see the kind of fire and passion that he may play with in the second half of the season. The other thing that we’ll see week is just how it’s going to work between Evan and James. We’ve already seen what James Harden has done for Jarrett Allen, and I’m told that when it comes to Evan Mobley, it’s kind of like 90% pop and 10% role in his pick actions. Basically, in his profile this year, they’re looking more at 60, 40 with James Harden in the second half of the season. So that’s something stylistically to pay attention to. Just how is Evan Mobley as a roller? How is he as a pick and roll partner for James Harden? Can he build that chemistry with. With James Harden the way that. That Jarrett Allen already has? And you add in the motivation that. That Evan has and the anger that he has. By the way, Scotty Barnes made the All Star game. So there’s always that element to it. The Scotty Barnes, Evan Mobley debate, rivalry, if you want to call it that. So a motivated Evan Mobley, a healthy Evan Mobley in the second half of the season with a new pick and roll partner, the best pick and roll player of the last 10 to 15 years in the NBA. What does that do for him in the second half of the season? It honestly, there are people inside the organization that believe the best thing that has happened to this team is that they only got one all star. Now, at the time that they were thinking that they still had Darius Garland on the roster, it was before the James Harden trade. But the idea was Evan Mobley specifically felt like he was snubbed, and people inside the organization felt like he was snubbed too. And they think the fact that that was in Their mind taken away from him might bring out a different version of Evan Mobley than what the Cavs got in the first half of this.
Jimmy Watkins: Want to unsnub yourself? Start rolling to the freaking basket. Nine thousand and ten. That is crazy. When.
Chris Fedor: When.
Jimmy Watkins: We all know when you’re having a huge regression season from three, we all know you’re best on the move toward the basket. Man, I don’t care who’s handling the ball. That’s. That’s a necessary adjustment. That’s. That is wild to me. But yeah, James Harden will do a lot of the work for Evan Mobley that we weren’t seeing Ebon Moly able to do on his own. James Harden will do that for him. And you can still get Evan Mobley out of the short role, for example, is an idea that I like a lot. And teams are going to have to either live with the results with Evan Mobley making very simple, very easy reads out of the short world, or they’re going to have to change the way they guard James and Donovan, which is not a fun thing about. Unless you have elite defenders all over the court and you can switch all the picks, right? So that’s exciting. That’s. That’s good stuff to look forward to.
Chris Fedor: I mean, look at the fourth quarter against Denver in particular. They sent two at Donovan. Didn’t work. Sent two at James. Didn’t work. Then they started switching. Didn’t work because the switch led to James hitting the step back three in what was an advantageous matchup. So there are just so many different options that the Cavs now can go to in late game situations. It’s only two games. It’s a very small sample size, but their offensive rating in the fourth quarter against Sacramento and Denver, 1:42. That is otherworldly in terms of execution for an entire quarter. And to do it in a situation where you’re playing from behind, execution is paramount. You have to value possessions. It just shows how much more dynamic this offense can be, and it just shows the conundrum that the Cavs are going to continuously put these defenses in. In late game situations. And you’re right, Jimmy, like Evan Mobley as kind of that guy who playmakes in four on three situations. If they’re going to send two at Donovan, send two at James or even Jarrett Allen as the playmaker in four on three situations. That can certainly be a pathway to offensive success for these guys.
Ethan Sands: And we’ll get to see more of it on Wednesday night as the Washington Wizards come to Rocket arena and James Harden makes his Rocket arena debut. It’s going to be a lot of fun. Evan Mobley and Dean Wade are the capital city.
Chris Fedor: Go. Go. Is that, is that the version of the Washington Wizards that are going to show up? Who the hell are these guys that are playing these days? Tanking, baby. Tanking is at an all time high. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it so rampant before the All Star break. This is just blatant.
Ethan Sands: I think it’s going to be a lot of fun because this will be the first opportunity for the Cavs to like really stomp on somebody after acquiring James Harden. Having Jarrett Allen and having Donovan Mitchell and Sam Merrill and Jaylon Tyson, I just don’t think the Washington Wizards are going to have enough to keep up in any capacity. And I think the Cavs will have their first trap game, I guess, with James Harden. Obviously, I don’t think even if it’s a trap game, it’s going to matter as much. But like not letting themselves get off the gas, right? Continuing to run the score up, continuing to learn the principles, continue to basically get practice with James Harden on the team. That’s what they should look at this game like. This is practice and we have to try everything, but we want to do it at the highest level so that we can blow this team out and be done with the game basically by the end of the first quarter.
Chris Fedor: It is most certainly a trap game, though. It is. It’s the last game before the All Star break. It’s the Washington Wizards. Who knows who’s going to play for them? By the time tip off rolls around, these guys are mentally already on vacation, some of them. And it’s the first game after a really, really difficult, grueling, active road trip. It was five cities, 12 days, thousands of miles, multiple time zones. And then the chaos that happened. Chaos just in the upheaval of the roster, as Donovan Mitchell said. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot in the last 10 to 12 days. Kenny said the other night before the game against Denver, everything’s working against us. And he was talking about last game of the road trip in the altitude against a. The Nuggets not favored in that game. This game against the Wizards, a lot of things are working against the Cavs except for the fact that they’re the Cavs and the other team on the other side is the capital City. Go.
Jimmy Watkins: Go to Trey Young and Anthony Davis. Do they get commemorative James Harden beards that they’re giving away at the game? They’re essentially Fans at this point, right? Curses. Co is in subtext. Last week when they made this trade for ad the tanking situation, it’s not just that it’s starting so early, it’s that these teams, they know that the tanking rules are so loosely enforced that the Washington Wizards can kind of like double down on their tank or middle their tank a little bit where they can trade assets to get all star caliber players and know that it’s not going to hurt their draft pick positioning because no one’s going to make them play. Play those guys. And look, with Anthony Davis, I believe whatever injury designation they put on the report, I believe, like he’s gonna, he’s gonna struggle to play games regardless. The Trey Young, like, how long, how long has Trey Young been there? And this guy, this guy hasn’t played? It’s unreal. The Utah Jazz are just playing Jarrett Jackson Jr. And Lori Markkanen for three quarters at a time and then pulling them. But during winning time, it’s losing time. Fourth quarter, it’s losing time for the Utah Jazz. Gotta take out our best players. Embarrassing Adam silver. Fix it.
Chris Fedor: Three first round picks for Jaren Jackson Jr. Because they obviously identified him as a pretty important piece in their future. And they’re like, hey man, you’re really good, but at this stage you’re probably too good. So we’re just going to value you more and we’re going to get a return on the investment for, for all those picks that we gave up, maybe next year or the year after that. They have been doing this. They have been doing this with Lowry, Markkanen and some of their better players for a year and a half now. Maybe two years, two full years almost at this point. And Lowry just keeps going along with it. He’s smiling over there. His hair looks good. Doesn’t even break a sweat in the second half of these games. But, man, it certainly hasn’t led to what the Jazz thought it was going to lead to. And they really haven’t maximized those picks to this point. So you just got to ask yourself, how much longer is this going to go on? I mean, I’m out of bio. If you have other players on other teams in the NBA calling you out for decisions that you make as an organization and how bad you are and say, yeah, I mean, we lost to a team that’s not even trying to win, that tells you all you need to know about this. And I totally get it. It is a fantastic draft. It might be a franchise changing draft and there might be Five of those guys in this draft. But it is blatant what is going on across the NBA right now. It is really, really hard to watch some of these games.
Ethan Sands: And Jimmy, to your point about it’s losing time and then still winning the basketball game, I don’t understand.
Chris Fedor: I was sitting next to a scout from another team in Denver and we were watching some of the other scores during some of the stoppages and stuff and he actually said as he pulled it up on his phone, he said, chris, watch to see if the Jazz just try and throw this inbounds pass in the back court so that Miami can scoop it up and go the other way for a layup and purposely commit a turnover. Now, that didn’t happen, but there were two Utah players that literally ran into each other and fell over on their inbounds pass. But you have other people from other organizations that are wondering what these teams are going to come up with in late game situations to throw away these potential wins and turn them into losses. It’s hilarious.
Jimmy Watkins: If you, if you lose during Utah’s losing time, you need to take heat culture off your court for like five games. New rule.
Ethan Sands: And to your point about who’s going to be playing for the Washington Wizards against the Cavs on Wednesday night, Anthony Davis is out with the left finger spraying. D’ Angelo Russell is not with the team. Cam Whitmore has a right shoulder deep vein thrombosis. Trae Young has a right knee, MCL sprain and a quad contusion. Get ready to learn. Shareef Cooper, actual NBA minutes. And Alex Sar getting some really heavy work.
Chris Fedor: He might wake up tomorrow with an illness. Bilali might wake up tomorrow with a sore back. Trey Johnson might have a nagging ankle issue that that happened when he got off the elevator or something. They’re coming up with stuff, man. It’s happening.
Jimmy Watkins: Alex Sarr is way too good to play during losing time. That’s like your new. That’s like how we determine who is a star now. If you are playing in the fourth quarter of tanking games, you’re not that guy.
Chris Fedor: Coach is like, where’s Bub Carrington? Get him out there. Have him commit five turnovers in a row. He’ll do it. He’s capable.
Ethan Sands: Bilal Coulibaly is questionable already. Keyshawn George is questionable already. And Anthony Gill is already questionable as well for the Wizards tomorrow. So we’ll have to wait and see who’s on the floor. But again, I think this is more about the Cavs and how they come out rather than who was on the floor for the Washington Wizards. As we mentioned, it’s a trap game and the Cavs need to have their mental in the game as much as they are physically in the game. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’ all be afe. We out.