COLUMBUS, Ohio -- On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss Ohio State’s four offensive players invited to the NFL Combine.
Among the things talked about:
_Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings._
_Stephen Means (00:06.663)_
_Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I am Stephen Means. That’s the fun Christ. And that is Andrew Gillis. This is your Tuesday pod. Ohio State has 11 players who will be heading to the NFL Combine next week. Eleven players. That’s the most of any Big Ten school out there. I think Indiana was second with like eight or something like that. I think I saw that somewhere. But Ohio State’s got 11 guys. And so for the next two days, we’re going to be breaking down those 11 guys and what they can do at the combine. Who has the most gain?_
_And you know, every other type of category you can think of today, we’re going to do the offensive guys, which is only four people at CJ Donaldson, Cornell, Tate, Max, Claire and Will Casmeric. Let’s start with, let’s start with Cornell because he’s probably. He might have a case to be the first book I just period taken off the board, depending on how some things happen. Obviously with some of some of the defensive players, but starting with Cornell, Stefan._
_A year ago, I think we all predicted that Carnell would be a first round draft pick. But did you think that we’d be heading into the NFL combine for 2026 and he would be like the it feels like he’s like the unquestioned wide receiver one at this point. Did we think that was his trajectory or did we just think? Essentially, did we think he would be in the category with like Garrett Wilson, Marvin Harrison, Junior Jeremiah Smith, where it’s like that guy might be wide receiver one or did you think it’s like, he’s a first round pick?_
_but it’s more like Chris Olave, Emeka Buka, where it’s just like, there’s a bunch of wide receivers who go in the first round. Maybe he’s the second or third guy off the board._
_Stefan Krajisnik (01:41.526)_
_Yeah, I it was, it was definitely the latter. will say, I remember Steven, you and I having a conversation last year when a Mecca did go in the first round. Cause remember we weren’t, we weren’t a hundred percent sure if a Mecca was going to go. think the mocks had him, you know, around 20 ish and that ended up being where he went. But you know, when you’re mock 20, there’s, can’t rule out the possibility of going in the second round instead of the first round. And we had a conversation of when would this streak._
_First round picks that wide receiver end and we said, okay Well, we know in 2027 that Jeremiah Smith is gonna go in the first round So 2026 or was kind of the question right like was carnel gonna do it I think I maybe even predicted like maybe just for the sake of like the streak has to end at some point maybe it does end this year and it’s it’s because carnel will fall into that boat of the meccans of the world where you were never truly the number one receiver on your team and I think that’s what makes this so surprising right is_
_I don’t think anyone’s shocked that he’s projected as a first-rounder, but to be a guy who throughout your time at the collegial level was never wide receiver one on your own team and to now be wide receiver one taking in your draft, I think is pretty fascinating and a pretty good glimpse into exactly what Brian Harline did here while coaching Ohio State’s receivers, right? And it’s..._
_You know, we can do the projection game again, right? Like we, know Cardinal is going to go first round this year. So that’ll put it at five drafts. know JJ will go next year. That’ll put it at six drafts. And then, you know, what’s after that? I’m sure Quincy Porter probably would have been the guy we projected for 2028. If we were to do those projections, right? Like Chris Henry Jr. Won’t be eligible yet for that draft. So maybe that maybe 2028 is when that streak ends and it ends at six drafts. but I think that’s the, the impressive part of a Mecca is that like he fits the mold._
_Stephen Means (03:08.577)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stefan Krajisnik (03:27.829)_
_of sorry of carnell he fits the mold of an ameka or a jsn where you know you’re battling to be the number one guy and i know toward the end you jsn kind of was at least you know you know barring health and ameka never really got there to the point of being the number one guy_
_So for Cornell to kind of follow that mold and then land in the areas of the Marvs, the Garrett Willsons, the Chris Olavez, the, you know, what JJ will be next year, I think is pretty impressive and a testament obviously to his measurables, right? His height. But I think we saw this year, like even as the number two receiver, we saw a skillset on display that NFL teams love, right? And that_
_Stephen Means (03:50.005)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stefan Krajisnik (04:10.921)_
_Like you could tell pretty early on that like this guy is going to test off the charts and be something that NFL teams like just because of kind of the, the sideline aware awareness and the ability to kind of get some of those toe tap catches and get up and high point a ball. Like the hands that, that he has, or maybe the best in college football._
_this season. that’s kind of the thing that’s impressed me is even as a number two guy that that skill set was on display so early to where you could say, this dude’s an NFL receiver, regardless of who’s lined up, you know, on the other side of the field._
_Stephen Means (04:45.17)_
_Gilles, he is in the mock draft consensus. He’s the number seven overall player and the consensus has him going fifth to the Giants. I guess we’ll see. mean, that would be fun. It’s like, hey, you just spent the last three years of your life playing alongside Marvin Harrison, Junior America, and Jeremiah Smith. And now you get Malik neighbors and then you can call up court. The court has Hanks and go, hey, you know about this neighbors guy. He’ll go, hey,_
_Andrew Gillis (04:50.542)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stephen Means (05:09.354)_
_He should have won the Ballin to cough over your teammate one year. I don’t actually think that, listen, if you’re an LSU fan, you probably think that and that’ll be a fun thing to ask Cortez Hank that whenever we talk with him, what do we think of the Carnell Tate career? 51 catches, 875 yards and nine touchdowns this past season for his career. 121 catches, 1872 yards and 14 touchdowns. He never had more than 900 yards in a season. And I’m trying to look up how many hundred yard games he had in his career._
_He had his career high was against Minnesota nine for 81 83. He had a game against Penn State this year where he was five of one 24 at Wisconsin this year, six for one 11 against Nebraska in 2024. He has four for one oh two and a touchdown. And then it gets Ohio this year, five for one oh one and a touchdown. So that’s for a guy who only had five games in his career where he had more than 90 yards and he never had more than 900 receiving yards in a single season._
_Is this is carnal tape the of the guys that’s going to be on this run of first round draft picks? Is he the ultimate version of like the tape says something very different than whatever the box score is going to tell you at the end of the day, simply because of who he played with._
_Andrew Gillis (06:23.542)_
_Yeah, the thing that I was thinking of, you know how like, there’s like that test where it’s like, you type in your birthday and then you type in Florida man, and it gives you some crazy news story. Like Cardinal Tate might be the like personification of the Ohio state man because 2023, he was a depth receiver. He was probably the fourth guy on the team behind a Mecca and Julian Fleming. And obviously in Mecca did get hurt._
_Stephen Means (06:39.158)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Andrew Gillis (06:52.908)_
_you know, during that, during that stretch. was why Emeka only had 41 catches. And frankly, why Emeka was still around probably, I think we all can debate this, but I think there’s a reasonable case to be made that if Emeka had stayed healthy in 2023, he’s not around for 24 because somebody would have told him, you know, you have this in your ceiling. But yeah, he was never the number one receiver on his own team. He had one year of being the number two receiver._
_And we’re talking about him going top 10. And I think it would be, it wouldn’t stun me if he’s not the number one receiver taken. Like it wouldn’t stun me if some team takes McKay Lemon because they’re like, Hey, we need a slot guy and McKay Lemons, Amon Ra, St. Brown and blah, blah. It wouldn’t stun me if Jordan._
_Stephen Means (07:45.632)_
_You think they’re taking slot guys in the top 10?_
_Andrew Gillis (07:48.526)_
_I think it could take, mean, would it surprise you if carnel tate goes 10 and McKay lemon goes nine._
_Stefan Krajisnik (07:53.959)_
_I JSM probably just helped._
_Stephen Means (07:54.453)_
_that’s that’s yeah but Jason’s not just a sly guy Jason plays like X now for them_
_Andrew Gillis (07:56.428)_
_Yeah, like, I mean, JSN_
_I mean, could, but that’s the thing. It’s like with, with lemon, it’s, it’s, you know, I think it depends on team fit. There’s a bunch of different things. It’s like, but that’s kind of what we’re talking about, right? Where it’s like, there’s look, I look, don’t pay me in the corner. Look into a corner. If, I had a, if I had a receiver need and I’m looking at all three of those receivers on the board, I’m taking carnal Tate, but like the fact that we’re talking about carnal Tate, like in this way is just kind of like,_
_Stephen Means (08:09.526)_
_I don’t know, man._
_Stephen Means (08:13.812)_
_This is the day they started Texas_
_Andrew Gillis (08:29.358)_
_This to me should be on every Ohio State recruiting manual ever of the carnal tates career. It’s like you can come here win a national championship have a good career. You develop you learn and even if you’re not the guy who demands the ball more than anybody else in this offense like even if like you’re not the number one you are still going to be thought of in such a regard that you’re a top 10 pick._
_and you’re maybe the number one receiver off the board. So to me, I think this is just like the personification of what Ohio State receivers have been in these last handful of years because I mean, we all thought he had the potential, but like, let’s pretend Carnell Tate was a three-star recruit, number 700 overall. Let’s pretend he was coming in with the fanfare of Brock Boyd, where like Ohio State was like, hey, we got a good one here, but._
_I don’t know, like 18 catches as a freshman, 52 catches as a sophomore when you’re in your third, when you’re in your second year and your third on the depth chart. I just, to me, we all just kind of had this low, like this just general understanding of like, yeah, this is what this dude is. And he kind of proved it. So yeah, this to me is kind of the personification of what Ohio State has been in the last few years. And Carnell Tate’s that guy._
_Stephen Means (09:55.671)_
_I’ll just go on the record saying I will be shocked if Mikhail Lemons the first receiver off the board in the world where a wide receiver is going to go in the top 10. Like, yeah, Jackson Smith, the Jigba might help. The reason why Jackson Smith, the Jigba went in the 20s is because I thought he was just a slot receiver. And then he got to Seattle and it was like, oh, he might be one of the best receivers in the NFL. OK, we’re going to going to we’re going to not resign Tyler Lockett and trade away decayed Metcalf so we can play Jackson Smith, the Jigba everywhere. I get I get the concept of need._
_I don’t know man, I don’t know what the world looks like yet where slot receivers start going at the top._
_Like I just don’t I don’t see that. think it’s to be it’s probably going to be carnaltate, but it’s probably him or Jordan Tyson because the two guys who have played both inside and outside versus like Mikhail Lemon. Like, sure, the Jackson Smith, the Jigma thing helps. And so maybe the help is like instead of going twenty three, he goes fifteen. But I don’t know if like a slot receiver. Like, I mean, last year was probably a really good example, right? Like Mecca Boca is very, very good at this. He was a slot receiver in college who could play outside and all that, but he was a slot receiver._
_Andrew Gillis (10:43.128)_
_Yeah, think so._
_Stephen Means (11:05.972)_
_And he went 19th when wide receiver one went in the top eight. And that’s like kind of how I’m looking at this time._
_Andrew Gillis (11:11.394)_
_Yeah, I my point wasn’t generally just McKay-Levin. It was just either one of them. So you don’t have to focus on McKay. I mean, it could be either one of them. Like, I wouldn’t be stunned if he wasn’t number one._
_Stephen Means (11:17.578)_
_Yeah_
_Yeah, but I have to because she said this. I have to because she said the slot receiver so I have to. Quick question for both of you. I think I might send this out to our Texas when we get close to the draft day. 614-35-03315._
_So here’s gonna be their first round draft picks by May, 2027. Like guaranteed. Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Jackson Smith Dejigba, Marvin Harrison Jr., Emeka Buka, Cardinal Tate, Jeremiah Smith. That’s seven guys._
_Stephen Means (11:59.351)_
_Who’s your top four of those seven? I will do a more like expansive version of this where we’ll actually do like a top seven. I mean, if you wanna do a rough chop seven right now, you can, but like who’s the best four? Just like raw ability, it’s draft day. And these are the only seven receivers in the entire NFL draft. So you have to take them. What’s their order on your draft board?_
_Stefan Krajisnik (12:29.397)_
_So I don’t have the benefit of like, hindsight of what they’re doing in the NFL right now._
_Stephen Means (12:35.494)_
_No, because we can’t apply it to two of them._
_Stefan Krajisnik (12:37.589)_
_Right, because yeah, because it’s like I’m taking JSN first overall. That’s kind of cheating. I mean, it’s probably Jeremiah. Marv._
_Stephen Means (12:40.662)_
_Right._
_Stefan Krajisnik (12:51.241)_
_JSN._
_Stefan Krajisnik (12:56.661)_
_and_
_Stefan Krajisnik (13:00.341)_
_I don’t know._
_I’ll say Garrett. I’ll say Garrett, but I think you could make a case for Carnell to be quite honest with you._
_Stephen Means (13:09.45)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Andrew Gillis (13:11.17)_
_I would have that top three, but I would have Carnell-Tayt fourth._
_Stephen Means (13:14.038)_
_Okay. I’ve heard strictly based._
_Stefan Krajisnik (13:17.589)_
_No, I’ll admit I probably did use a little bit of hindsight, including JSN. If you if you would ask me genuinely like in 2020, what draft was he 2223? Like if you had asked me that year, I don’t know. I probably still would have been top four, but._
_Stephen Means (13:28.286)_
_Yeah. Yeah._
_Stephen Means (13:33.718)_
_I mean you also didn’t cover him so it’s like I’m just you know, it’s a little different If we’re if I’m strictly basing as off of what they were as draft prospects JJ Marv Carnell got JJ Marv Garrett Carnell like I just_
_I mean, you can’t pass up on six foot three in that level of outrunning in hands. Unless there’s two other dudes who are also six foot three plus, but route running in hands and then the guy who’s not six foot three, he has greater outrunning in hands and for some reason at like five, 11 can play like he’s six five. So essentially, I’m taking the three dudes who played X here and then the dude who would have played X here if there wasn’t a generational wide receiver here. Well, I think what we’re talking just draft prospects, I do think that._
_Stefan Krajisnik (13:55.764)_
_Yeah._
_Stephen Means (14:22.12)_
_JSN Chris Olave and a Mecca or maybe just a step below But that’s where I would go with it, okay, that’s wide receiver_
_Stefan Krajisnik (14:27.957)_
_Probably._
_Stephen Means (14:36.022)_
_Good for Cornell though. Good for Cornell. Do we think he does stuff at the combine other than talk?_
_Andrew Gillis (14:43.914)_
_I’m curious, not to reignite this, I am curious of those, like, I think those are the top three receivers. I think everybody will agree with that right now. I am curious if any of them work out. Yeah, like, because they’re like, there’s this argument of like, if Jordan Tyson works out, should that make carnel tate work out? Or should that dissuade him from working out because Jordan Tyson shows up? And like, let’s say the NFL teams are thinking like, like, Steven,_
_Stephen Means (14:55.528)_
_Do anything? Yeah._
_Stephen Means (15:05.142)_
_Mmm._
_Andrew Gillis (15:13.496)_
_where it’s like, we’re not taking McKay-Lemon before 15 or whatever. Okay, Jordan Tyson shows up and runs a blazing 40. And it’s like, look at this guy. And then you start to put it all together and you’re like, wait a minute here. Somebody didn’t play with Jeremiah Smith. Somebody didn’t have this. And you start to get that argument where it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know if Cardinal Tate works out. I think he has a better chance of working out than Marv did._
_I think he’s got a better chance of working out than JJ does next year. Like it would not stun me just based on the way that the room is because or the way that the room is the way that the board is because there’s two other guys who I think have a reasonable case to be made of maybe this is the first receiver off the board and I don’t know. Cardinal Tate might need it. He also might reasonably look at it and say, I don’t want to myself. I don’t want to._
_Stephen Means (15:44.436)_
_Yeah. Yeah. Yeah._
_Stefan Krajisnik (16:11.167)_
_Yeah._
_Andrew Gillis (16:11.234)_
_I don’t want to run a half a second slower than people think. And then all of a sudden I’m 17th._
_Stefan Krajisnik (16:16.169)_
_Well, and the thing is too, like you say, what if Tyson runs a blaze in 40? Okay. Then carnel run a blazing 40 a pro day. That’s over for the NFL draft._
_Andrew Gillis (16:23.596)_
_Yeah, that’s the other thing. A lot of these guys do work out._
_Stephen Means (16:28.66)_
_You think he does anything, Stefan?_
_Stefan Krajisnik (16:30.133)_
_Probably not. I fully go into these expecting guys not to do so. I think it was like last year like Quintchon ran the 40 and I was like, oh sick did not expect that. I go into these like yeah._
_Stephen Means (16:36.98)_
_Yeah. Yeah._
_Andrew Gillis (16:39.51)_
_And then he ran really, really well, which is why he ran the 40._
_Stephen Means (16:43.676)_
_I we were shocked last year that him and Trevion did stuff because it was so close to the end of the season because they played the National Championship game. was like, maybe you could use the extra couple of weeks into the pro day to just flip from football mode to preparing to run in underwear mode. I think Maki actually might do everything because I think it benefits him the most because of the style of player he is. If he goes out there he’s like a 4-3-9._
_or a four flat or something like that because of the style of player he is. I think Cardinal might have to run a 40 at some point._
_just because of how the end of his year went. And I do think because that kind of happened with Jackson, where he didn’t do he did a lot of the he did the drills, he did position drills at the combine. And then he ran the 40 at pro day after he had a little bit of extra time. And it’s because I think his 40 wasn’t about, hey, are you like Chris and Garrett where you’re to run a four four because he like a four or five one. He ran like a four four four or something. it wasn’t about his speed._
_People just wanted to see him run and see if he could get through 40 yards and still be healthy coming off that hamstring. Coming off of Cardinal’s lower body injury that made him miss a month of football. And it ain’t like he looked like himself against Indiana and against Miami. Like think of the last time we saw a fully healthy Cardinal Tate was against Penn State and he was blowing past everybody and catching deep balls. We saw that one more time and that was against Michigan on that back breaking touchdown._
_After that, so I do wonder if like at some point he runs a 40 and the 40 isn’t about like how fast you are. It’s about how healthy you are after you’ve had two and a half months off. I don’t think he probably does it at the combine though, because. Why do it then when you can do it on a turf that you’ve been playing football on for the last three years, but I do think he’ll catch._
_Stefan Krajisnik (18:43.571)_
_Yeah, he’ll probably do. I mean, we see them usually do like receiver drills and things like that, but._
_Stephen Means (18:46.87)_
_Yeah, like I don’t I I’m with you. I don’t think any of these receivers are at a level where they can just kind of show up, talk to GMs and maybe do media and then leave. Like I do think they have to do stuff next year. JJ is going to be walking around just like hanging out. He’s going to play as much football at the combine as we’re going to play football at the combine. But this is this is a little different. OK, that’s what Cornell Tate would say._
_Stefan Krajisnik (19:06.835)_
_Dante Moore. Dante Moore turned on another opportunity to throw a car now. Take Oregon wanted him to do last year. Now he won’t do it at the combine either._
_Stephen Means (19:17.802)_
_won’t do it. He just won’t do it. All right, that’s carnal tape. Let’s take a break and then we’ll come back and we’ll talk about CJ Donaldson._
_And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick and Andrew Gillis were previewing the combine. This is day one of that where we’re talking about the four offensive players. did Donaldson, Cornell, Tate, Max, Clare and Will Kazmeric. Up next is C.J. Donaldson. Ohio State had two running backs taken in the NFL draft last year. Both of them went in the second round. I think they went back to back and went on mistake or it might have been a pick between the two. OK, so they were back to back in terms of like running back, but they weren’t back to back in terms of like overall picks._
_Stefan Krajisnik (19:49.269)_
_There was a pic between them, yeah._
_Stephen Means (19:56.311)_
_Do we think Stefan that continues can CJ Donaldson do anything over the next week between along with that pro day that maybe he ends up being a draft pick._
_Stefan Krajisnik (20:07.381)_
_It wouldn’t surprise me. I think that kind of the and we’ll see the measurements and you know, the running and all that will obviously be pretty important for CJ Donaldson. I think what’s intriguing with him is you know what he was as a high school prospect, right? Kind of being more of a tight end mold and then kind of fitting into the running back mold. And I think what’s fascinating with him is, know, coming to Ohio State in the offseason that he had last year and changing his body. I think that that’s a good sign to NFL teams like this guy is not._
_Stephen Means (20:23.808)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stefan Krajisnik (20:35.925)_
_you know, just going to be some, you know, bowling ball bruiser running back who’s a situational back for you. Like he is he is more versatile than maybe he he showed ever West Virginia. Now he’s shown you that, you know, with time he can transform his body. He can kind of fit into more versatile, you know, mold for you in terms of being a receiving back, a running back, you know, anything that you may ask him to do. And obviously a guy who played a ton of college football, I think to some extent._
_NFL teams do value that even though if that you maybe his prolonged career at the collegial level shows you that he’s not going to be a star but it shows you that you know, come day one and week one. He’s a guy who’s been around and can at least be trusted someone and past pro and things of that nature just because of the amount of reps that he’s coming into the NFL, you know with from the collegial level. So the body part of it is maybe the most intriguing with me for CJ where it’s you have proof to show an NFL team like_
_Here’s what I was, here’s what I became. If you want me to become something even better than that, like I can do it. Like I’ve shown you the progress that I can make in the course of an off season and I can do that for you. You know, if drafted and having, you know, this summer to work with an NFL team. So I think it’s possible. I would not be surprised at all if C.J. Donaldson got drafted._
_Stephen Means (21:56.887)_
_96 carries 361 yards, 3.8 yards per attempt, though I think that that yards per attempt is a little misleading given the fact that a lot of the times they were giving him the ball on like third and one and fourth and one opportunities where it’s like just go get a yard. Ten touchdowns that led the team this year. He is 294th overall in the mock draft consensus and number 22 amongst just running backs. He did all that while playing._
_Stephen Means (22:26.205)_
_279 snaps and I think he was the only running back this year. No, actually he did miss a game as well. So now the running backs played it all 14 games this year, but 279 snaps this year was second behind Bo Jackson and total snaps for the running backs. I think this is a good place to start with this conversation. Gillis, do you think Ohio State maximized its transfer running back situation in 2025?_
_Andrew Gillis (22:54.894)_
_Hmm. Did they maximize their transfer? I mean..._
_Probably not, but I also don’t think it was like hideous. I don’t know, it’s somewhere kind of in the middle between success and failure. they maximize their transfer portal window in 24, but it’s also like how many times are dudes like Quin-Shon Judkins available in the transfer portal? And the answer’s not a lot. So it’s like, all right, well, you maximized that, but there was also like a clear..._
_There was also like, it’s an interesting kind of mix that I’m trying to think of a way to kind of tow that line here because it’s like, I don’t think CJ Donaldson was like a flop, but they got a lot more from Bo that they probably bargained for that they thought they were getting maybe like January. You know, maybe when he showed up and things started to progress, you’re like, whoa, maybe this kid can give us something._
_They probably got maybe a little bit less than what they thought they were going to get from James Peoples. So I don’t think they maximized it. No, I also don’t think they struck out swinging. I think they hit a single. I think it was fine. Like I think there are people and perhaps rightfully so that will look to their portal class and say like their portal class going into 25 was just not all that good._
_While I wouldn’t certainly put T.J. Donaldson at like the top of that list of, you know, mistakes or flops or failures or whatever you want to call it, he’s not at the most successful. So he’s kind of just somewhere in the middle, which I guess is a boring answer, but that’s kind of the way I feel._
_Stefan Krajisnik (24:46.259)_
_The CJ Donaldson do less than what you expected from him or to James peoples do less than what you expected from him._
_Stephen Means (24:56.534)_
_I think if you’d have told me that neither one of them had more than 500 yards this year, I would have been like, that’s insane._
_In fact,_
_Andrew Gillis (25:03.936)_
_Yeah, yeah, we would have been like, okay, what what what went wrong? Like, like who got hurt almost at that point?_
_Stephen Means (25:11.414)_
_They had a combined 705 yards._
_And listen, get like Bo Jackson emerged, but even with Bo Jackson emerging, it ain’t like Bo Jackson had 1500 yards._
_He had a thousand and ninety yards and six touchdowns. was he he was clearly the best running back. I’m not trying to devalue Bo Jackson here, so please don’t take it as that. But it’s like it ain’t like he had fifteen hundred yards and it was like from day one we were like, no, like Bo’s like it. It took a couple of they gradually brought Bo Jackson along. So those two had plenty of opportunities to like kind of shut the door on Bo. They didn’t expect. In fact, they had nine months._
_Stefan Krajisnik (25:31.464)_
_yeah._
_Stephen Means (25:55.606)_
_to shut the door on Bo. And if Bo Jackson would have had 550 yards, and it’s because either CJ Donaldson or James Peeples was bald, and we’d have been like, okay, good year, first year for Bo Jackson, it’s something to build on. It’s gonna be a breakout year and sophomore year. I think Bo Jackson vastly outplayed expectations, and that’s good, but that doesn’t mean that CJ Donaldson and James Peeples_
_Combining for 705 yards was a good thing. I guess._
_Stefan Krajisnik (26:29.461)_
_What’s interesting though is like in 2024, got, you know, 2000 plus from Quintenon and Trevion combined. That’s over the course of 16 games in 14 games you had, you know, between Donaldson, peoples and Bo you got 1800 ish, right? So, you know, you played two more games and you still get over that 2000 thrush mark. Um, you just did it with three guys instead of two._
_Stephen Means (26:37.225)_
_Right._
_Stephen Means (26:47.253)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stefan Krajisnik (26:55.219)_
_which I don’t even know the point I’m trying to make there. Like it’s kind like the numbers end up kind of equaling themselves out a little bit, but, you could tell like you were, you were missing an element of like explosiveness or something like that in the run game. I don’t think the blocking was always perfect in the run game either. that you had with Quinchon and Treviano, you just kind of didn’t get that this year and Bo gave you some of it, but that’s the thing that was like,_
_Stephen Means (27:00.873)_
_Yeah._
_Stefan Krajisnik (27:18.473)_
_That what was missing from this offense is kind of that exposed to us in a running game. Well, I wasn’t expecting that from CJ Donaldson necessarily even when you arrive. So it does feel like again, this links back to like was was people’s more the problem or Donaldson more the problem._
_Stephen Means (27:32.405)_
_It’s maybe people’s but I think for me it’s I felt like well in 24 it was just You know when you go to a restaurant and you leave it’s like I have no notes like it was everything about it was great I Left I’m full. I’m satisfied with my meal. There’s just no issues whatsoever_
_I didn’t feel like that at the end of this year. Like I felt like there was one element of like, okay, this is the guy we can give the ball to 20 times if we need to, was checked off. But there were like four five other elements where it’s like, I’m just not sure what’s happening here. And it felt like Carlos Lachlan maximized, I think he maximized the room for what it ended up being in terms of how good guys were. I don’t, but maximization doesn’t mean it’s good enough._
_And I felt like in 24, the room was maximized and it was good enough. This was maximized and it wasn’t good enough. so I’m all for group running back by committee approach. If you feel like you got four people who are good enough, I don’t think he had four people who are good enough. I think he had one guy who was good enough. Another guy who maybe was good enough, but he was coming off a pretty severe injury and didn’t get fully healthy until like the middle of September._
_and fully back on his feet until the middle of September. And he’s also a true freshman and you can’t hand the room over to two true freshmen. I don’t care what position group it is. You can’t have two dudes who have been in college for less than nine months running your room. And you brought in a veteran guy who was kind of the safety blanket because all the young guys were still learning how to do things that didn’t require them to have the football in their hands._
_And you had a guy in James P. Poole’s who was a really good running back. It’s just the ceiling isn’t as high as the other two young guys in the room. And it was a lot of like mix and matching and not perfect marriage. And I would hope that in 2026 is maybe more of a perfect marriage._
_Andrew Gillis (29:34.99)_
_Do you guys think he gets drafted?_
_Stephen Means (29:37.943)_
_That was my next question. Ohio State’s running backs who have been drafted. J.K. Dobbins went 55th to the Ravens in 2020. Trey Sarman went 88th to the 49ers in 2021. And then they had a little skid there and had no running backs drafted. But a lot of that is because Treyvon Henderson was young and not draft eligible. And then Quinchun Gunsons goes 36 and Treyvon Henderson goes 38th this past draft. Do we think that number reaches five right now as we’re sitting?_
_Andrew Gillis (30:08.28)_
_I don’t think so. I don’t think he gets drafted. I think he, this is a unique class because it’s like the two Notre Dame guys are at the top. Jonah Coleman’s right there. And then there’s kind of an interesting, like the Penn State guys are in the middle. The Indiana guys are in the middle, but there’s like not a lot of like bona fide, like this is a, this is what a third round running back looks like. This is what a fifth round running back looks like. Like would it._
_Stephen Means (30:17.75)_
_You_
_Andrew Gillis (30:34.958)_
_Stun me if he’s a fifth round pick. No, would it stun me if he’s getting one of those calls on, you know, a couple hours after the draft and he signs with X team? No. he’s got a big company in terms of what his ceiling and floor is. He might have the biggest combine of anybody just in terms of like where he can, you know, where he could potentially go, because I think there’s a lot of guys that you look at and you say, all right, he’ll probably go in this area. He’ll probably go in this area. T.J. Donaldson._
_Stephen Means (30:52.95)_
_Mm._
_Andrew Gillis (31:04.728)_
_Could go one of two ways. Right now I say he doesn’t get drafted._
_Stefan Krajisnik (31:08.915)_
_I probably know I’m interested to see what he looks like when the combine arrives. Like is he slimming down more this off season? I don’t know that do some NFL teams think that he should put the weight back on and be used as as a bit of a bruiser? I I don’t know. Like I guess I guess it might depend on what your team need is, but I’d probably lean no. But like I said, kind of the start there it would not. There would be no part of me that would be surprised if he ended up getting you know six or seven thrown pick._
_Stephen Means (31:38.646)_
_Okay, last break and then we got Keenan Bailey’s group hero, Buckeye Talk._
_It’s been the year of the Titans at Ohio State. Stephen Means, Stephon Christy, and Andrew Gillis. Welcome back to Buckitey Talk as we preview the NFL Combine through the eyes of the Ohio State football players. 11 guys, five on offense, six on defense as they try to go for 11 on 11 in terms of guys getting drafted. Two more offensive guys left to talk about Max Clair and Will Casmeric, who ended up being their top two Titans this year._
_Will Kazmeric 509 snaps. And 14 games Max Claire 488 snaps and 14 games Max Claire 48 three catches for 448 yards only two touchdowns will cast Merrick 15 catches for 160 yards and two touchdowns. Let’s start with Max Claire. Actually no. Let’s start with both of them and ask this question. Who did more for their NFL draft stock in 2025 Max Claire or Will Kazmeric?_
_Stefan Krajisnik (32:47.925)_
_Probably, probably will cast mirror because I think we were talking about Max Blair being a potential first round guy when he signed with Ohio State. I don’t think that’s what he’s gonna be._
_Andrew Gillis (33:01.14)_
_I think Stefan’s right._
_Stefan Krajisnik (33:04.819)_
_And that could still mean that Will Casamare goes undrafted and Max Clair goes like in the second round._
_Stephen Means (33:11.113)_
_Do we think Wilkinson Harris getting drafted? I think he’s getting drafted._
_Stefan Krajisnik (33:14.045)_
_I think he’s getting drafted._
_You’re giving me a veteran tight end with that amount of snaps played and that kind of blocking ability. You’re telling me, look at what Sean McVay did this year. You’re telling me he’s not just taking another Wilcas American tossing him out there and being like, we’ll score._
_Stephen Means (33:28.253)_
_Yeah. We’re gonna look out there next year. The Rams is just gonna have all tight ends. It’s like that’s not even legal. It’s like, don’t worry about it. Tight ends._
_Stefan Krajisnik (33:33.173)_
_All the it ends and it’s like how did this play end in a 70 yard completion of Pukka Naku’a?_
_Stephen Means (33:39.609)_
_Yeah, it’s just puka and six tight ends and offensive linemen._
_Stefan Krajisnik (33:43.733)_
_only if I could think of a team that had a star wide receiver playing with a bunch of tight ends._
_Stephen Means (33:51.382)_
_Oh boy. Yeah, we got the Shanahan tree had a lot of influence on Ohio State this year. Ohio State’s Titans drafted since Ryan Day became the head coach. The first year they had a title and get drafted was 2021. Luke Farrell went 145th. The next year Jeremy Rucker went 101._
_And then it wasn’t until 2024 when Kate Stover went 123._
_And then this past year, no tight ends have been drafted. So they’ve had three tight ends who got drafted. None have been inside the top 100. Do we think right now Max Claire has a top 100 pick in the NFL?_
_Stefan Krajisnik (34:35.925)_
_Yeah, I think so. I’m more so wondering if he’s going to be a second round pig, like first or probably not first at this point, but will he go before the third round? Because that would be 1996. So 30 years ago was the last time Ohio State had someone go in the first or second round at tight end. That was when I had it pulled up here. Oh, yeah. Ricky Dudley with ninth overall to the Raiders. That’s the last time they had a tight end go in the first or second round._
_Stephen Means (35:08.745)_
_You she were making faces._
_Andrew Gillis (35:18.86)_
_Yeah, I think he’s a top 100 pick. Sadiq is like the first round guy. And then it’s just kind of a bunch of questions. Stowers from Vanderbilt’s there, Joe Royer name that people remember from Cincinnati is there. Texas has a guy whose name I forget. yeah. there, there’s a couple of guys in that kind of mix. And I think Max Clair is probably in that mix. And I, I, I,_
_Stephen Means (35:36.297)_
_Yeah, Gendrys._
_Andrew Gillis (35:47.65)_
_think a team probably uses a third round pick on a guy like that. And I think Will Casmer, or excuse me, Max Clair showed enough in this offense to where you can reasonably say like, my stats would have looked a lot better had somebody thrown me the ball when I was wide open down the seam. Like there were a few plays that like, you know, as you get more into this process, stats don’t really matter because of_
_If a scout can look at you and say, look at you got he he got open on this play or he gets open in these routes or whatever. Doesn’t matter if get the ball or not in a certain, you know, at a certain point because they saw what they needed to see. The ball just didn’t get delivered to a wide open guy. So I think Max Claire’s probably a third round pick, second round pick. I think he’s not waiting until day three._
_Stephen Means (36:43.093)_
_I was just counting. Will Kazmeric is 396 overall and 28th amongst tight ends. While Max Clair is 78th overall on the mock trash consensus database and third amongst tight ends. I agree. I also think he is. So of the people where it’s like it doesn’t really matter what they do next week, they’re going to be._
_This is where they’re going to get drafted. They’re going to be in this range. And I would throw Carnell Tate. Arvel Reese, we’ll talk about tomorrow. Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs, like those four is just like there’s not the range is not changing. In fact, I might even throw Davidson Ibn Osin in that group of like, this is your range. This is where you’re going to get drafted. And for some of them, it’s first round. For some of them, it’s second or third round. But like, this is your range. You should expect to come off the board that day. Sorry, Gillis, you’re going to be wrong. I think._
_Cade McDonald and Max Clair have the most room to grow. Over the next..._
_month and a half of their lives. Because I think I agree with you, looks like put the numbers aside for a second because his numbers are going to take a dip anyway this year because he’s not the number one option the way he was at Purdue. He was at best the number three option behind a dude who’s going to be a tough draft pick this year and a dude who is going to be the first non quarterback taken off the board next year. So his numbers were always going to dip. And of course, if you throw in, if you turn this on, I’m open and my young quarterback didn’t get me the ball._
_That’s going to play because, oh, if I’m the Rams, oh, Matthew Stavros, not a young quarterback. He’s going to get you the ball in that situation. I’m not really worried about that in that situation. Part of the reason people thought Max Clare was going to be a first round draft pick is because of what his skill set is as a tight end. It very much like is it’s not he’s not as good as Brock Bowers, but it’s the same kind of concept of he’s more receiving threat than he is blocker. Right. And I’m thinking, what if he tests out the wazoo for a tight end?_
_Stephen Means (38:52.597)_
_at the combine and then he does it again at pro day and it’s like, oh, you’re pairing those two things together. Now all of a sudden, sure, Kenya’s Adik might be the 19th pick in the NFL draft, but if I’m a Super Bowl contender._
_Stephen Means (39:08.606)_
_CHEAPS_
_Stephen Means (39:12.531)_
_in a tight end that might be retiring? I don’t know._
_The Chiefs replace Travis Kelsey with Max Clair. I don’t think that’s off base. don’t know where the Chiefs are picking right now. So that might not even be a feasible thing if they have like the number 12 pick in the NFL draft or something like that. But I’m thinking like that, like Max Clair sneaks in at like 27 because he’s going to a team who just is like looking for a plug and play piece. And he’s got a skill set to where it’s like, man, a team got to steal at 27 because Max Clair just spent._
_pro day and combine just testing out the wazoo. I’m going to talk the same way about Ken McDonald tomorrow, but I just I think sure. Do I feel like he was maximized in terms of numbers at Ohio State? Sure. When you look at the counting stats, but then you watch the football games and see how often he was missed and you go, man, Max Clair could have had like 55 catches and like six touchdowns this year. But I do wonder if like he’s got a skill set that where_
_the combine might do him some favors over the next week and how he tests out. While with Wilcas Merrick, I think his argument is a little more, this is my film, you’re gonna take me at like 150 or below and that’s just, he’s gonna be pro for a long time. But I think Max Clair can probably be a weapon and somebody might take that at like 27 or something._
_Stefan Krajisnik (40:38.547)_
_Yeah, I think the you’re definitely you’re definitely right about Claire. I think the blocking element of it is going to be interesting, right? Because like you look at his he’s listed right now at 65243._
_That’s not too different from what like Colston Loveland was listed as last year’s combine. Right. And that’s another receiving tight end. then you look at some of the run blocking grades from PFF and the NFL. It’s like George Kittle, one of the best run blocking tight ends. Yeah. He can catch the hell out of the ball, but boy, can he block in the run game, right? Colston Loveland’s up there in the top 10 in terms of run blocking tight ends too. His highlights are catches, but like he, he was an element or he was a factor in that, that part of the game as well. And that’s, that’s the interesting part of clear for me is._
_Stephen Means (40:57.609)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Stefan Krajisnik (41:22.871)_
_He does a lot of the things that like you said, like could he replace Travis Kelsey? Absolutely. You don’t think my homes could scramble around for 10 seconds. And then it’s like, my God, how did Max Lerner wide open in the middle of the field? Like, how does this keep happening? Travis Kelsey was also pretty decent at the line of scrimmage and helping out, you know, opening holes for guys like Kareem Hunt and Isaiah Pacheco and whoever may be._
_you know, in that backfield for the chief. So that that is the interesting part of it. It was like, I think a big reason why he came to Ohio State was to improve his blocking to go along with what we know he can be as a receiving tight end. And that was going to help make him kind of a first round guy. I don’t think he took a step back in terms of blocking. Like, I think he got better at Ohio State._
_But at any point in the season, did you walk away from a game being like, man, Max Clair made his presence felt in the block. And I’m not going to pretend I’ve watched every snap and know every single block or miss block that Max Clair had, but it was obvious that Will Castmerica was way better in that area than Max Clair was. And that’s kind of the part of it to me is at some point that the film will come on, right? It does for everyone._
_And does that like, can he overcome that enough to where he ends up being, you know, an early second round pick or something like that? I’m just, I’m just not sure. Just because of what the NFL has asked, asked his tight ends to do. Like you, they want receiving tight ends, but you better be able to block the hell out of a defensive end._
_Andrew Gillis (42:35.245)_
_Yeah._
_Stephen Means (42:42.41)_
_Yeah._
_Andrew Gillis (42:43.054)_
_And it’s also if you’re going to be a receiving tight end, like I agree with Stephen that, you know, Max Clair can, you know, really raise his ceiling. Twenty seven’s pushing it. But like forty five isn’t. Like fifty, like somewhere around there, because the thing that, you know, you got to think of, like I think back to a couple of years ago, I know there was a glut of tight ends. There was Laporta. There was I think it was Kinkade._
_There was Mayor, there was a bunch of tight ends in 23. And they all went kind of early second round, like I think Kincaid was the late first round pick. Like they were all kind of in that, in that glut. And if you take a tight end in the first round, you’re not taking a tight end in the first round who you’re like, this is a nice piece for our offense. You’re like, no, this guy, we’re going to flow some stuff through him. I,_
_I think middle of the second round is probably where I think his ceiling is right now. But that’s, mean, it’s pretty dang good ceiling. I think that’s pretty good. I think Steven hit it right on the head with Kazmeric. Kazmeric to me, it feels like this is a deep pole for the NFL fans. It feels like a Nick Boyle type of situation where he played for the Ravens for a while and he was a ferocious blocker to the point where_
_the Ravens had him kind of thought of as a sixth offensive lineman. And because of their running scheme, it worked out and you start to like, you start to kind of wonder to yourself, like, what team wouldn’t sign up for just like six to seven years of a tight end three who blocks his ass off and can really kind of give you a nice dynamic? Like you’re telling me the Lions couldn’t take Will Casmeric and just say like,_
_Stephen Means (44:12.137)_
_Mm-hmm._
_Andrew Gillis (44:36.974)_
_Hey, you’re our third tight end. We have Laporta. You’re never going to be the number one guy, but cool. Show up on the line of scrimmage and put some people in the dirt. Like that, that to me feels Kazmerick. So when you said 396, I was kind of surprised. I think he’s going to get drafted. Like I feel pretty strongly that Kazmerick is going to be fifth, sixth, seventh round guy. I’m not going to go nuts and say, oh, he’s a third round guy. No, he’s not. He’s not that. But day three._
_Stephen Means (44:55.156)_
_I do too._
_Andrew Gillis (45:04.61)_
_You’re telling me some team at 192 isn’t looking at him going like, hey, we’re going to take a guy who’s going to play a very specific role for us and he’s going to be darn good at that very specific role. And I don’t think you’re going to ask Will Kazmeric to go above and beyond himself. And I don’t think the combine is going to show that either. So I think Ohio State is getting too tight ends drafted. I don’t think they’re going to happen on same day. I think_
_Claire’s probably second, third round. think Kazmarek’s probably a later day three guy, but yeah, to me, Kazmarek should be not safely a draft pick, because I guess it’d be going like the late sixth round, you’re not safe, but he should get drafted. I would kind of stand on the table for Kazmarek in that regard._
_Stephen Means (45:53.893)_
_Think both of these tight ends are like kind of they fit teams who are already ready to win They’re not necessarily looking for like number one weapons and just the plug-and-play type of players and that they could Manifest itself in different ways at different time periods in the draft I want to close with this because it’s gonna be a good way to segue us into what we’re gonna be doing them all with the defense Gaila Sue gets drafted first Max Claire Davis and Ava Nelson_
_Andrew Gillis (46:31.992)_
_That’s a good question, because I think they’re both kind of in that same range, or they will be._
_Stephen Means (46:38.228)_
_This is him officially waving the wave flag._
_Andrew Gillis (46:41.582)_
_My thought right now would be Claire._
_Stephen Means (46:49.076)_
_It’s a shame._
_Andrew Gillis (46:49.876)_
_It would not shock me if we did this on March 5th, if I say it’s Iqba Nosin, he’s one of the, like I said it with Donaldson, Iqba Nosin is one of those guys where it’s like, man, if he runs well, he’s gonna look really, really appealing. So I’d say right now it’s Claire, but the combine is gonna be very, very big for IGP._
_Stephen Means (47:19.752)_
_What a shame, Stefan._
_Stefan Krajisnik (47:21.333)_
_to you. Have a mighty fall. I think this is gonna be IGB. Have a mighty._
_Stephen Means (47:23.22)_
_I know, man, yeah, man, like Stamos. I think it’s going to David. I said what I said is like a concept, I think at the end of the day, I think David’s the Ibn Osin is going to be the first. I’ll say this, I think David’s the Ibn Osin is going to be the first non first rounder for Ohio State._
_And then there’s Gillis man, you wave the flag for so long and you’re already putting it down. It’s a shame._
_Stefan Krajisnik (47:47.157)_
_swapping it out for the white flame._
_Andrew Gillis (47:48.27)_
_Like I said, I know it’s kind of I’m not trying to hedge it. Like if you would ask me like if the draft happened today, who goes first? I think it’s Max Flair._
_Stephen Means (47:55.477)_
_No, you’re supposed to still be standing down toles firm that listen this week. That’s not no, no, no, no, no, I was I was I was teeing you up to get people excited for when we talk about David and Ibn Osama tomorrow. You’re going to be going, yeah, he’s going to have a hell of a combine and we’re going to leave there and he’s going to go like 17th in the NFL Trial._
_Andrew Gillis (47:58.86)_
_Look, who would I take and who I think is going different is a different conversation._
_Andrew Gillis (48:13.934)_
_I mean look, Stephen got the wrong guy when he said could he go 27th? He was talking about the wrong Buckeye if he was a great guy. He was talking about the wrong guy, don’t get me wrong._
_Stephen Means (48:20.704)_
_Okay, no, you. Here you go. Hop back. All right. Those are the four on offense. C.J. Donaldson, Cardinal Tate, Max Claire, Wilcas Mary. That’s the first round wide receiver. An intriguing tight end prospect and two other guys that tied in and running back who I think can make some money next week. Like, quite frankly, they can make some money this this week. Tomorrow we’ll talk about the six guys on defense as Ohio State’s._
_former Buckeyes prepare for the NFL Combine, which is next week’s to finally be there for interview. I don’t think he’ll be there when by the time these guys are working out, but he’ll be there early in the week talking with some of those guys. We’re not sending the whole brigade this year. It’s a lot less people. Maybe next year we’ll send the whole brigade again when they have like seven first round draft pick, but it just didn’t feel necessary this time around. But get the text 614-330-3315 two weeks, we try out three ninety nine after that. Again, we we we asked questions last week of Ryan Day. We actually don’t know what the next time we’re going to talk with him is._
_But when our workouts are underway, spring practice is about three weeks away for Stefan Kresnik and Andrew Gillis. I’m Stephen Means. Talk to you guys later._