On August 25, CIA Director John Ratcliffe made an unannounced visit to Moscow. However, the main geopolitical sensation was that, before the trip, Washington officially asked Kyiv to refrain from drone strikes on Moscow and St. Petersburg until the American delegation had left Russian territory!
A US Marine Corps veteran, reconnaissance sniper Matthew Sampson, who fought in the ranks of Ukraine’s Defense Forces and now lobbies for Ukraine’s interests in Congress, calls this request the event of the year: just three years ago, no one in Washington asked Kyiv’s permission to do business in Moscow — now they are forced to ask.
— Hello, I’m Henry Keen with UATV. And for those of you who have been with us for a while, you already know Matthew Sampson. He’s our guest, an American volunteer Marine Corps scout sniper who fought with Ukraine’s defense forces against Russia and who today makes the case for Ukraine to members of the US Congress. If his personal story is what you’re after, I really do recommend our early interviews with Matthew. They’re worth your time. Matthew, hello.
— Hello, sir. It’s good to be back. I’m happy to see you again.
— Thank you so very much. I am so anxious to break things up today. I mean literally break things because I mean here’s what’s on the table. Why Ukrainian drones reached a warehouse that is 1,200 kilometers away and whether anyone in Washington even noticed that. That’s the first thing. The second is, of course, it takes a whole CIA director to do whatever in Moscow. We discussed that also a secret visit more or less and how one offhand remark by a retired general became an international news story about Ukraine in the space of 24 hours. We’re talking about mobilization of women in Ukraine and stuff like that. So let’s start with first things first before we start. Your remainder has been in trenches outside. You’ve spent almost two years more than that in trenches, right?
— Give me one good example of something Washington doesn’t understand about this war still. I would say the flexibility between frontline commanders that are actually on the battlefield and those that are producing the weapons and equipment needed to be used on the battlefield. That is something that overall we’ve been pretty good about that process in the grand scheme of things, but that process has been completely changed by how quickly the battlefield is evolving here in Ukraine. So, for example, there are times that it might take a year or so for frontline commanders to communicate to the US government officials, and that gets communicated to companies that can now produce the weapons or equipment that is needed. Whereas here, there are times that that’s happening in weeks or maybe a couple of months.
So, that’s an area that we can learn from Ukraine about what’s going on. And that’s something that I know that even folks like Senator Mark Kelly have spoken about specifically about being able to decrease the amount of time it takes to really procure stuff that’s needed, maybe just for a few units, and maybe not the entire military force needs some of that stuff. So, we don’t need to build stuff necessarily at massive scale, which is what we’re used to doing and we’re very good at, but being able to produce things smaller. And that’s something that even President Trump has talked about: finding ways that we could produce some of the stuff that we need that can cost maybe thousands of dollars instead of millions of dollars because it’s proven to work here on the front lines of Ukraine that you could produce some stuff for thousands instead of multi-million dollar assets to do the exact same thing.
— Well, if it does the exact same thing, of course, obviously. But uh let me let me ask you another question. You said it in April. You wrote that Ukraine strikes on refineries are, I’m quoting you, captivating the capital, right?
— I would say so.
— Okay. So, can you please talk through the the mechanics of it? also me just as well, for so you walk into Congress in a congressman’s office, and you show a map like look this is Ufa this is termak which is unpronouncable for a congressman as well as me just as well, but and so what happens then are they captivated really Matthew?
— I would say that overall yes, they could be very excited when we’re able to confirm how these operations that are happening deep inside Russia is affecting the front lines on the Russian side and that’s part of what I do here. When I go to the front line and I talk to battlefield commanders that I know and trusted tell me the truth the positives and the negatives that we’re able to actually confirm how are these operations affecting the front line today and how’s that changed from maybe six months ago. So, you know, I’m working on figuring out the logistics right now of of going to the front line here in the next few days, maybe next week sometime, okay, to get more updates on that and and hopefully we can have a we can continue this conversation about what the updates are for, you know, the proverbial now and how that’s been updated from about six months ago, the last time we talked.
— I very much hope so. Um, well, let’s let’s talk about numbers. I mean, the the Senate passed the Lindsey Graham sanctions bill 8611. Impressive. Don’t get me wrong. That’s Yeah, it is it is a tool. It’s a weapon, right? Would it fire? Because I mean, 3 weeks later, the House hasn’t even brought it to vote. So, are they captivated? Again, I’m asking you.
— I’ll say that there’s more going on behind the scenes, and I say that more in the context of headlines within the media. Okay. Earlier this year, the US along, it’s a joint program between the United States and Ukraine of a joint investment firm. I think it’s actually part of the mineral deal that doesn’t only can include minerals, but they recently just approved earlier this year the first investment into a company that’s basically drone technology. So now the US and Ukraine are 50/50 partners. Each one has contributed $75 million into this fund for a total of $150 million. And they just earlier this year approved this first investment that goes into drone technology.
So when we talk about drones impacting areas that are a thousand kilometers away from the front lines inside of Russia, we have solid evidence that there’s a strong partnership between the United States government and the Ukrainian government for all drone technology, specifically in combat situations and warfare zones. So that tells me that that evidence shows that even though it’s something that may not be in the media, it’s happening. It is now. It it it absolutely is. And that when you have this 50-50 partnership of the US and Ukraine working towards drone technology between what we know for our technology and what Ukraine has experienced so much at the front lines at the cost of Ukrainian blood and other foreigners that I think it produces a very strong partnership.
And I think that’s one reason why we’re seeing an increase of stuff exploding on Russian soil further and further away from the front lines. And that’s also compounded with I think it was February this year that President Trump also signed the one-year extension on previous executive orders that’s labeling Russia and the war in Ukraine as a national security threat to the United States. It it was originally started back in 2014when the initial invasion happened and this this war started and it’s been continued all the way through but that was something that also happened this year that continues it for one more year that you know I I saw President Trump’s signature on the document myself it’s it’s publicpublic sourced information of we we have that of labeling Russia as a national security threat and the war here to the United States. So, we have that. We have, you know, this investment doing approving their first investment with to an actual company that’s doing drone technology. We have more stuff exploding in Russia. It’s a lot of things all happening together that I think very little of it, if any of it’s actually hitting the headlines.
— Yeah. But don’t get me wrong, I I love to see things burn and explode in Russia after living here for five years in a row and losing friends to this war.
— Understandable. Understandable. But could it not be a tricky question, not trying to trick you on that or anything, but could it be that it works against us against Ukraine? Like people in America in very high chairs are looking say look they’re doing go on their own. They don’t need support. They don’t need money. They don’t need weapons. They can you know invent things like $4,000 not spending million dollars and so on and so forth. Just an excuse maybe but still a working excuse.
I can say that there there are probably some within the government that are looking at it that way. Some that might be intentionally more removed from the situation. I know that some of the congressional meetings that I have, the office is intentionally trying to be removed from the situation. They don’t really want to be supporting Ukraine in this. And so I I respect their opinion to to have that opinion. However, sometimes it’s just based off of bad information. And that’s one of the things that I try to provide to the offices of I was there. I’m an American. I’m not being biased towards Ukraine. This is what’s happening and here’s our here’s the pros and cons from my perspective as being a war fighter that spent over 3,000 days in war zones of why we can benefit the American people can benefit to increasing these partnerships. And and that that’s something that I believe is gaining more and more traction, especially when we have stuff like Senator Lindsey Graham returns from a visit over here and within a very short amount of time, you know, we’re planning his funeral and we know that the Russian state has a history of making stuff like this happen and that stuff like that needs to be considered because then that shows that American citizens are are not safe from Russia. No one is safe from Russia. Even Russian citizens are not. No one is.
— I concur. Right. I know you’ve done hundreds of meetings. You are the absolute the advocate and the voice of Ukraine and for Ukraine in the United States of America. What do you call a successful meeting? I mean you meet congressmen, Congress people. Is it a signature on a letter? Is it money? Is it a voice that just repeats? And and that’s another one part of the question. The other part of the question, how do you prove that you’re not biased for Ukraine? Because you obviously are, right?
— I talk about what my general history is, my personal passions, and what brought me onto Ukrainian soil originally. For me, my passion is helping and serving others. I’ve felt that way since before I was 10 years old. It was around that time that I decided I’m probably going to join the US military because I feel like with my personality that I want to be able to help protect those that may not be able to protect themselves. Fast forward quite a few years while I was in high school, I watched the towers fall on 911. Right by the time I entered my senior year of high school, a few years later, you know, it’s 2004. I was able to sign my contract at the age of 17, understanding that for my generation, we’re going to war. We were already at war in Iraq and Afghanistan by 2004 when I signed my contract.
And basically, anyone that signs a contract is probably going to get shot at by either Taliban, al-Qaeda, somebody because we’re going to end up in Iraq or Afghanistan during this process. And that’s what my driving force was. It wasn’t I want to go and fight Iraqis. It wasn’t I want to go fight Afghanis. It was I’m passionate about helping and serving those that may not be be able to protect themselves in my country and in other countries. When I did spend time in Iraq and Afghanistan, I was able to interact with locals that they’re just trying to live.
They don’t have any hatred towards really anybody, including the United States. They just want to make it. They just want to survive to the next day. So that was something that that’s why I was there is one reason why I spent thousands of days as a security contractor in Iraq as well of just protecting those that are trying to survive, both Americans and non-Americans. When this all happened, I really didn’t know anything about Ukraine. It wasn’t something of I love Ukraine and something I love is being attacked. It was I know the enemy really well. They do really unfortunate, horrible things when they invade a country. They’re known for this. I saw evidence of that when I was in Afghanistan. A family showing me pictures of men, women, children, all being bound and executed in massive holes in the ground. That’s BHA. That’s BHA. The exact same thing that we saw in BHA in 2022 is the same thing that the Red Army did in the 1980s, you know, before my time, before I was born. But when I was there in 2009 and early 2010, Afghan locals that have lived there all their lives showed me and other Marines some of the photos that they took after the Red Army left of just what the atrocities were. And that was just considered normal, unfortunately. So, that’s what brought me here.
And I also explain I don’t speak the language.I don’t want to live here. I appreciate the culture, but I like my culture a little bit better. I don’t have family members here. It wasn’t something that I’m a, you know, first, second, third generation Ukrainian roots. None of that. Okay. I’m a very annoying, stubborn American from California. I now live in Arizona. And I I use that to just explain that I’m an American first. And I see that Russia is a threat to Americans and basically everyone else that pursues peace as their way of life compared to warfare, tyranny, and destruction. That’s what brought me here. That’s where I’m able to explain, no, I’m not necessarily pro- Ukraine. I am anti-Russia and Russian tyranny. And that that’s something that I really focus on is this is an issue in Ukraine that’s very obvious but it’s also issue in the United States.
— That was pretty much an explanation of why you’re here. What brought you here? We know now. What brought Mr. Ratcliffe to Moscow?
— That’s something I can’t say. But again, speculate when we look at what has taken place earlier this year of the White House agreeing, yes, Russia is still a national security threat to the United States. The war in Ukraine is a national security threat to the United States. And also this investment happening that’s targeting drone technology. And there’s more and more drones exploding inside Russian soil, including in Moscow. To the point that I saw multiple headlines of the United States had requested Ukraine, please for a couple days don’t talk about Moscow because we’re sending a highle American there. So please don’t kill them by accident. And and that’s the fact that Ukraine has that much power on the world stage right now in warfare that the United States has to make that request of, hey, please don’t target Moscow for a little bit because we’re handling some business there.
I think that speaks very loudly, almost as loud as a CIA director landing in Moscow. The fact that Ukraine has that authority.
— Right. But I mean, Radcliffe was there and he was talking about something something is going on definitely. Is it that you think about the Baltic states not for Russia not to invade the Baltic states, and America is cutting the troops’ presence in Europe. severely. What does that mean? Is that let me reshape the question. Do you believe that this is a signal for Moscow that America is strong or it’s weak?
— I believe that it shows America’s strength of having that communication, the willingness to send a a high level American and a military aircraft to land in Moscow. I think that shows our strength especially when it’s coupled with asking what is an ally of ours. Please don’t attack attack Moscow for the next you know x amount of hours or days or whatever that exact conversation was. So I believe that that’s showing the strength. I believe it’s showing the strength of also the American Ukrainian partnership and the Ukrainian abilities and that we have open respect for that on the world stage and that we are communicating to all other countries that sometimes you need to ask permission or ask a favor of Ukraine in order to conduct business now in Russia. And that’s something that again was not true three years ago, four years ago.
— Absolutely. As far as I know, no one was ask no one was asking Ukraine, hey, can you be nice for a few days because we’re trying to handle some business regardless of what type of business in Moscow, but it’s happening now, which I think is huge. I know you’re not Ratcliffe, but I know you’re checked. Matthew, do you believe Russia is actually going to invade a Baltic state, like massively militarily or just going to be? I’m sure there are going to be provocations. I’m sure they’re going to be tens of dozens of drones like flying over my native Latvia. But do you believe you will go further?
— I believe that Putin has the capabilities to further collapse and destroy his own federation. Throughout his tenure of the last approximately 26 years or so, he’s been very very good about not strengthening the Federation or really helping his people, but by making it systematically worse. And we know that there’s a lot of similarities and parallels between Putin and Hitler. And Hitler was in that same ballpark of there became a clear point that he was an enemy to his own people. he was making it worse to the point that our side almost saw him as an ally of realizing this guy is helping us destroy what is going on in Germany. So that way we can one day actually go back to pursuing peaceful interactions with this country and this state. So I I see a lot with Putin that he is more than capable of furthering the destruction and eventual collapse of the Russian Federation.
— Are you telling me that this is that this could be at least, well it’s looking like I mean it looks like a plan of American plan to destroy Russia that way to let Putin do it.
— I see a decent amount of parallels between what we’re experiencing now and events that led up to 1991 and the collapse of the Soviet Union that our side understood this is an enemy of ours. They see us as an enemy of theirs. We want to handle this problem and hopefully not Americans and Russians shooting at each other because then we will have a stack of bodies that is hard to explain to the American people. Even though I’m fully confident we would win that exchange. So, how do we help them destroy themselves? Because they’re already good at destroying stuff, including themselves.
We just want to accelerate that timeline. I believe that we’re experiencing a lot of that right now. I believe that’s one reason why we have public records of this investment happening of drone technology and more and more stuff exploding there.
So clearly that means that the US is very formally involved in stuff exploding on Russian soil and that that’s a kind of a cool interesting concept that this is public knowledge that I I found easily and I’m essentially kind of a nobody. So, this is not some secret thing that’s going on that it’s public and it’s happening and we’re able to watch it on TV of more and more stuff exploding and set on fire inside Russia.
— You’re too modest about yourself. You not somebody. You’re somebody who spent your two years in a row in your trenches and lost two two good friends and and brothers in arms. So, you’re not just two, quite a few.
— But these two are just the ones that I carry with me and recognize on a more regular basis. But I see myself more as just a voice of the people. Not just the American people, but really just all peaceloving people that for those that really want to have a peaceful interaction with their neighbors, whether it’s literally right down the street or other nations, I see myself as a voice of those people of here’s the things that we might be able to do to get a little bit closer to peaceful interactions. And that might include a little bit bit of warfare between here and there because of what the other side is doing.
— Do you believe women should be also fighting on the front lines in Ukraine?
— They are actually. They they are. I’ve experienced numerous women at the front line for years. Even during my time where I was still doing combat operations years ago, we had women at the front lines at numerous different roles.
But that’s voluntarily. There’s no they were not mobilized and they’re not supposed to actually but they do that because they are patriots and Keith Kellog says that why exactly that’s something that just speculating that might be looking a little bit at the US culture of seeing right how normal it was for very young people teenagers primarily to be volunteering to go to war when we know that there is a high probability of becoming a casualty or becoming killed. We saw that in World War II where there was times where at that time you could still get away from time to time about lying about your age. And when I say lying about your age, I’m not saying that you’re 18 years old and you’re saying actually I’m 41. You know, I’m or I would say the other way of, hey, I’m 14. I’m too young for this, so I’m not going to go to war. But we sometimes had like 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds saying, no, I’m 18. I’m 19. I’m old enough. We saw the same during the Civil War of people that were 13, 14 years old lying about their age because they wanted to fight for their freedoms. They wanted to fight for their beliefs. And we had this pro, I call it a problem only because it’s a little bit illegal. But so many that would lie about that. We had some that if they were denied entry into the US military, they felt that they had no other choice but to go home and kill themselves because they they were so patriotic that they wanted to serve their country to go fight the Nazis, to go fight the Japanese during World War II, which meant again high probability you’re not coming back. And if you do come back, some part of your body is going to be missing. They felt that I can’t live with myself if I’m not allowed to go and fight for my country. So that’s something that possibly when folks are saying that either we need to reduce conscription age or include more within the overall manpower by including women that it might be coming from that same perspective of our culture is very very strong that even if it appears that the enemy might outnumber us or the enemy might have a little bit more experience than us which was the case when we fought the Japanese. The Japanese had years and years of recent combat experience as they were doing their invasions. We had very little at that time, but we still had such a massive influx from teenagers of I want to go and fight even if that means I’m not coming back. And a huge amount of the workforce at the time were women. You know, we were able at at times to produce one bomber every about 57 to 63 minutes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And a huge amount of that workforce were women. you know, we we madeyou know, the the name and the phrase of Rosie the Riverer at the time just to show that women are the primary workforce folks that are actually building these weapons and equipment for warfare.
— Still, this is a different scale of a conflict, isn’t it? But and and women armed like if I’m not mistaken, 75,000 Ukrainian women are right now fighting in in Ukrainian armed forces. So let’s be honest, Keith Kellock was talking about the legislation like we first need to change the legislation. Is that and that’s his private opinion, right?
— It appears to be his private opinion and that is one way to adjust the culture if your view is to Hey, I would really like to see that culture have a similar view as my culture does on this specific issue. Do you share that? Is that your culture? Do you believe the women? That’s something I relate to very very well and it’s something that again I experienced. I signed my contract at 17 years old at the beginning of my senior year nine months before I went to boot camp my my basic training for the military. And I I had very little time between graduating high school which is a requirement and actually starting my time in the military. So I I was already under contract for about 6 months as a minor, as a 17-year-old because myself and many in my generation all saw our country was attacked.
And we will not allow this to stand. We will go and fight even though we know that means we’re almost guaranteed to be shot at. And at the time it really, at least from our perspective as teenagers, we basically understood that it didn’t matter if you’re joining the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marine Corps, that you’re probably guaranteeing yourself to be shot at by somebody because you’re going to end up in Iraq or Afghanistan, even if you’re in one of these other branches. So that was something that was just very significant about the culture that I grew up in. So I could definitely understand that myself and others would love to see that type of culture within Ukraine. And one of the ways that I believe we can improve that is through American Ukrainian training programs and partnerships.
That one of the issues that is a problem here is training infrastructure. I’ve encountered numerous folks, men and women, that have signed contracts here in Ukraine to volunteer and then they go home and sit for three or four months waiting for a date to go to basic training because the training infrastructure is not able to keep up with the amount of recruitment. So, that’s an issue where there is a manpower issue at the front lines, right? But it’s not based off of we can’t find enough recruits. It’s we have so many recruits, we can’t train them all fast enough. And that’s something that I believe if we’re able to pursue a an American Ukrainian training program, whether it’s done on European soil, American soil, that we can help adjust this problem to where your average citizen can understand if I do volunteer instead of trying to hide or choosing some other profession or trying to get across the border, okay, that I’m actually going to get high quality training to where I have a chance of surviving. I’ve encountered myself numerous men that are of military age that are actively avoiding conscription illegally in Ukraine.
They’ve all said the exact same thing. I’m afraid that the training won’t be enough for me. And that’s a primary concern. It’s not I don’t want to fight for my country. It’s not something of I love Russia, I hate Ukraine. None of that. It’s the training is not going to be sufficient. And that’s something that as a professional war fighter, I can understand that and I can relate to that. And if we can make that adjustment, I think it’s going to be a huge benefit to the American people and to the Ukrainians to just it looks like it to have something to where we’re able to glean from Ukrainian experience that’s been massive amounts of Ukrainian blood primarily along with some foreigners while also injecting American ingenuity for training infrastructure which is something that we’ve just we’ve always been very good at this issue and that’s something that we put these two together.
You know, I’ve been able to have some very good conversations with some of American leadership about this. I’m hoping to, you know, actually be able to put that that idea together to where it’s actually happening. I believe that’s something that I would assume that even uh, you know, some of the other folks that you’ve spoken to, former generals and such that would also agree that we may make a partnership like this. It’s good for both sides.
— Absolutely. It is. This is this is why you’re here this time. You’re going to the front lines very soon. you mentioning is that the reason or any other reasons that you cannot talk about or something?
— Primarily my answer would be when they have questions, right? Because they could give me a smile and a nod all day long and listen to everything I have to say. Sometimes they write some stuff down. Sometimes they write nothing down. But when they are so engaged that they actually ask me questions about opinions, opinions, perspective, factual information, right? and listen to my answers objectively, then that’s what I view as a successful meeting because now I’ve engaged them enough to where they actually trust me to give them some information of answering a question that possibly they had no other way to get this information. And I believe that that is a void of communication that we have between our two countries of the Ukrainian country and the American country of how do we actually get some of this information back to American voters and lawmakers that when it comes through an American voice the Americans tend to listen to it a lot more just like on the Ukrainian side if it comes through a Ukrainian voice natural you know international thing it’s human thing.
— Exactly, and that’s something that has been shown to be very powerful and effective of communicating this information, passing on this information that, you know, folks that may not see the conversations that we have on camera, but are able to have one-on-one conversations with me or a small group setting, ask me direct questions. I can give them direct answers and and that’s where some of this stuff has potential to affect policy and affect how some of these officers are voting to where we can have larger circumstantial changes happening at the front lines and behind enemy lines.
— Sounds like a talk show. Maybe we can we can do something about it. I mean, next time. Uh, thank you so very much again, Matthew. I can’t say thank you enough for what you’ve been doing and still doing for Ukraine, and safe travels through the front line and back bring us some good news.
— I appreciate that and again I’m happy to be here. I’m happy that I was able to be here for Independence Day and that celebration was was pretty fantastic just to be a part of it to be here on Independence Day and to celebrate that and be able to communicate some of that stuff back to you know my American colleagues and those that follow me. Just by the way, you know, we just discussed it with my friends. You know, obviously Russia changed tactics, not the strategy, but at least the tactics, like five or 10 Shaheds or drones or other means of destruction here and every day long, just the recent two days that way. Is it a signal to us? Should we change traffic? What is happening? Can you can you from your I mean, from your extensive military experience- suggest something or let us speculate more or less, with the knowledge at least because I don’t have one. I don’t have anything about it. So maybe you can have an answer.
— Well, I believe, you know, we’re able, you know, we we touched on it already a little bit previously of just how the tactics have changed of just increasing this American Ukrainian partnership and not not just with the United States, but with these other Western countries, of using drone technology. You know, there there’squite a bit of footage on online now of people can see that the parade that happened in Kyiv was drones all of them.
And that’s something that is significant and and very very different of what we’re used to. And the fact that that’s happening on Independence Day, the 35th anniversary of that, I think, is something pretty big to really take away from. And also it’s not just the 35th anniversary of independence as a new concept. It’s reclaiming independence. It’s Ukraine had independence previously. And that’s something that that I’ve tried to explain to my fellow Americans that we understand independence as a initial starting event that yesterday in the past we were not independent. from this day forward we are. And that’s that’s how we view it within our culture and that’s how it played out in this culture 35 years ago was just reclaiming independence that was already fought for and already secured many times multiple times and unfortunately lost. One thing that’s significant about the 24th of August, Independence Day, is that was the same day that the US capital was set ablaze by an invading force in the year of 1814 during during the war of 1812.
That’s where the strongest, most powerful military in the world in world history came and invaded our shores. They got to our capital. They set our capital ablaze. First they ate, you know, quite a bit of food in our White House. Made sure it was empty and then burn it to the ground. But something I appreciate that about that is that’s so different than the way that Russia is conducting warfare that the British when they came in, they at least made sure that civilian casualties would be minimal at best or hopefully zero. that they attacked military or government targets, not just setting the entire town on fire because why not? Not just attacking American citizen civilians because let’s just kill people because it sounds fun. They made sure that the house was the White House was empty. Ate all of our food and then set it on fire. But that’s something to where the American people and the Ukrainian people do have a way that they can understand each other. That on that day in history, we understood from our history of what it’s like to have an invading force, a very powerful invading force in your capital setting stuff on fire. And how does it look to fight back from that to further secure the independence that you had already previously declared? And that’s something that making that parallel is something that’s pretty cool. There’s a lot of Americans that aren’t aware of that parallel. There’s a lot of Ukrainians that are not aware of that parallel. But I find it to be incredibly significant and just that much more that we have that parallel. We have the changes in warfare. We have the changes in how we conduct military parades on an independence day.