Man Utd legend Wayne Rooney
Wayne Rooney has given his thoughts on Man City FFP.
Manchester City have ‘quadrupled down on the same lie for so long that they just couldn’t pull back’ – but their robbed rivals are right.
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The best years of their lives If Manchester City receives the biggest punishment, their ownership forced to sell and the club expelled. If they then have to go on an adventure as AFC Manchester City starting in the Northern Premier League or below, and maybe things go poorly, leaving them stalled in the Championship instead of eventually back in the EPL (I consider this unlikely. They’d probably go all the way back.)
If all that happens, I reckon most proper Manchester City fans would still consider these past 20 odd years as the best of their fan life. They’d said, justifiably so, that it was worth it. Yes, even if they know it was cheating. Yes, even if they agree that the titles should be null and voided. That the asterisks should adorn all those ‘accomplishments’. And that their club had to be forced into a hard reset to pay for the crimes of the owners and complicit management.
Because in the end, they felt those emotions. They had those highs. They got to experience peak Pep-ball so much, it became boring to them. The defense of “it’s only an FA cup final” was wheeled out in response to them not selling their allocation. And as much as it galls, for those fans, over that period, that’s a genuine reason not to go.
They had the absolute best time in the world, and even if no other fans gave a rats arse about what they did (because everyone, including their own fans, knew it was dubious. I mean, they were the only club in the world that grew their commercial revenues during COVID. That’s how little they pretended they weren’t cheating.)
And if you supported a yo-yo club, of course you’d trade the joy of a decade plus of burning bright for infinite time doing nothing.
Plus, of course, if they do eat the ultimate punishments (or varieties of lesser ones) they’ll be back. Clubs don’t disappear because the fanbases don’t disappear. Maybe not as big. Hopefully not as cheaty. But now with a group of fans with golden memories.
So, yeah, I don’t expect City fans to walk around wearing horse-hair vests in contrition. But two things can be true at once: they had a great time, but also their team wasn’t innocent. Thankfully, the latter doesn’t invalidate the former.
Andrew M, London
Actual genuine respect to Jurgen Klopp and his comments on the City case, which coming from me is quite the thing.
I suspect this is borne out of two things: 1) He’s an adult, & related: 2) He’s not daft enough to undress with the light on in a house made potentially of at least a couple of panes of glass. And before the hard of thinking start frothing, I’m not suggesting anyone has the same potential lengthy rap sheet as City, I’m just saying only a self righteous child would be daft enough to think that every other team’s affairs are completely spotless behind the scenes.
I’d wager that Bobby two contracts stuff has definitely happened to one degree or another elsewhere over the years for example.
RHT/TS x (That Olise free kick v Italy though, oh, wait a second, it’s probably invalid given Cherki teed him up)
City’s last stan-d So many bogus arguments from the City ‘stans’ and City management as this continues to roll forward. From ‘how else is a poor boy able to compete’ to ‘we have irrefutable evidence’ to ‘think of the reputational damage to the EPL’ if the charges lead to severe punishment.
A few points are worth noting. City stood on the ramparts of the castle minarets of their mosque and shouted that it was all above-board sponsor revenue, with no other involvement, when arguing the same points to UEFA and CAS. Now, the irrefutable evidence is that the Abu Dhabi government topped up those agreements, so not the Sponsor but also not City. Hmmm. Apart from the fact that they tried this before and it was rejected, it really does show their story is shifting as the cold light of day dawns and the entitled ones realise they may be in jeopardy.
It’s not as if their funding wouldn’t stand out. In no other marketplace do advertisers pay over the odds for the vehicle to carry their advertising. It’s always about reach, eyeballs, followers, however you measure it. To put it into perspective, how would City, with 25% of United’s reach in 2014, achieve 88% of their commercial revenue? 43% of Chelsea’s reach but 146% of their commercial revenue, and this was a Chelsea that had been recently winning it all.
But City continue to behave aggressively and attack the board, the commission, and everyone, in fact. Given that the owners are also leaders in an Islamic state, it’s also ironic that the fraud and their surrounding behaviours would completely violate their laws. A religion that treats usury as a sin (although that isn’t the situation here), but still considers dishonesty a serious moral failing.
On a podcast, a pundit seemed to imply that this is all causing reputational damage to the Premier League and we shouldn’t expel City, or take too serious an action against them, as it would make that damage worse. I was stunned. There are two ways to look at this. What will those who sponsor the Premier League as a whole, or those who pay huge broadcast rights fees, think? One might suspect they would want a rapid solution, as any uncertainty in resolution always damages trust. Also, one could say they would want it swept under the carpet to retain the overall integrity. But the backlash they would receive from fans of other clubs would be dramatic. Could they sue City as well?
Finally, what about this idea that cheating is fair because it’s the only way to compete against the incumbent big boys? An argument clearly designed to get other clubs not considered the big boys on board. I dare say, the three ‘B’s who have been consistently improving by being well run and managed might have a thing or two to say about that. The Premier League has been disrupted and upended by many newer clubs recently. But this is on the back of the Premier League paying out the huge broadcast rights relatively fairly. To the point where even mid-tier Premier League clubs can outcompete most other clubs in the world. This is what makes the Premier League strong and the envy of other countries. But this comes off the back of those ‘big boys’ huge audiences that originally drove eyeballs to the Premier League. You know, the rising tide that floats all boats. But clearly that wasn’t good enough for City. Oh, and let’s not forget City got a handout with a free stadium that cost over £110m to build and is worth double that today.
But City have gone so far down this rabbit hole they can’t pull back. The entitlement, the oligarch-like bullying of the little people, just didn’t work. They doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on the same lie for so long that they just couldn’t pull back. How long are all the City stans going to keep pushing their flawed and dishonest narrative? To understand, it’s not everyone else who caused this situation, but the sheer greed, desire for success, and power of ownership that can’t be earned through fair means that led to it.
Paul McDevitt
Free Yaya
Something’s bugging me about this.
Let me say this first: Man City as an institution should be punished beyond anything seen here or in Europe. And the owners have got to go, obviously.
BUT, I do feel like there’s something amiss here.
Can it be that Yaya Toure, David Silva, de Bruyne and the like really don’t deserve their medals? These are the best players of their generation, and would have been winners wherever they played.
We live in an age where the vast majority of, if not all, players at that level have agents and financial advisors so I find it hard to imagine they really had any true comprehension of what happened. If it took the powers-that-be this long to understand what was going on, what hope did the players have? I can’t imagine the player-agent conversations over these things amount to much more than “the total package is x amount per week, with y bonuses, for z years.” I know from a mate in the industry that contracts get magnificently complex.
Rooney said himself he doesn’t think Utd deserved the title in the Aguero season and I think he’s got more credibility than more or less anyone on the matter of how we should view the sporting success.
On another level I think that punishing and, in the case of some commenters, implicating the players in the scandal contributes to making football even more of a business than saving it. Reading between Rooney’s lines, I feel like he’s saying it’s 11 versus 11 on the pitch however those teams were assembled.
For me, that’s the purest expression of the game, and we should try and honour it however much the nobs behind this mess try to interfere.
Standing by for some absolute pelters in response.
EJ, far away.
There are different types of cheating Evening,
Long time reader, first time writer and Liverpool fan of 40 years. Decided this was a topic worthy of a good old fashioned ramble so here we go.
Man City cheated on an industrial scale (subject to appeal blah blah) and should be punished heavily for this. I’d kick them out of the Premier League but how far down and for how long I leave to wiser minds.
However the main point of my mail is that unlike many others, I don’t feel cheated on the pitch (ie I subscribe to the Andy Robertson view). Had they been bribing officials or opposition player it would be different but on the pitch it was 11 Vs 11 and the matches themselves were best team wins.
The reason I feel this is that the competition off the pitch is already not fair, never has been and never will be and so I cling to the point that once we get on the pitch we put this aside and enjoy the game. Simple example, Real Madrid can flutter their eyelids and (most) players come running. (yes I miss Trent), why is that fair? Or probably more relevant why can Liverpool pluck players from Newcastle or Brighton (say) just because they have more revenues. To pretend it is a level playing field off the pitch is absolute nonsense. A combination of self interest and (probably) well intentioned attempts to stop clubs blowing themselves up (FFP, PSR etc) has made it very difficult/impossible to break into the top echelons of the Premier league (same applies in Europe with the wealth from the EPL).
So unless someone can come up with a better way of making everything off the field “fair” I’m going to stick to if it’s 11 Vs 11 on the pitch then may the best team win.
Expect lots of people will disagree, as they should, but watching Liverpool go toe to toe with a great football team will stick with me forever.
Cheers all, keep up the good work
Phil
It was interesting to read Jack’s missive – one of the rare breed of City fans who is rightly appalled at the conduct of the club’s higher-ups. I have some sympathy for him on a human level. But….It’s not the case that City’s owners and top brass pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes and this whole thing has come as an enormous shock. We’ve all known about it, for pretty much as long as it was going on. City brazenly put out numbers justifying their spending, that asked the world to believe that they’d almost instantly become a more commercially successful club that Utd, Liverpool, Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern. It was obvious to anyone who’s head wasn’t in the sand that it was a tissue of lies. I’m going to credit City fans with at least three brain cells, so, Jack…you knew pal. When you watched Aguero score in the last minute, and Rodri score against Inter Milan, you knew your club had cheated. So, my sympathy kind of withers and dies.
I despise the Gl****S. There’s nothing I want more than to see them out of the club I love. But if (and when) the other choice was to be a state-owned sportswashing project, It’s a case of better-the-scumsucking-devil-you know. So don’t tell me that any fan would’ve gone along with the City charade. I’m sorry that your club was turned into a cheating husk who’s only purpose is to launder the reputation of a despotic ruling family, but, you knew that was the case. And so did the fans who hung up the ‘Pannick on the streets of London’ banner at the Etihad. You’re right, football is tribal. And that led a great number of your fellow City fans down a road of complicity. Sorry, but that’s the truth. Have a good weekend.
Ben
So, The PL are in a tough spot, City, the club as an entity cheated and need to be punished.
The owners are threatening to pull out of investing in infrastructure and other projects in the UK (just to make themselves money) and Burnham is hesitating to condemn them and is playing devils advocate.
Their brand could be in jeopardy without the big name stars in the top division so TV rights and sponsorships need to be protected because of money. It’s all about money.
The way I see it, individuals are to blame here as they are the ones who cover up, sign off the books etc so isn’t this the COO or CFO ? and where did those orders come from? The owners themselves ? Individuals or owners, board of directors, have made a conscious decision to do what they’ve done and exactly what money to funnel and from where.
It’s been said that they’ve broken UK laws on these pages so why don’t the authorities pursue individual charges and squeeze them for info on where the whole sorry state of affairs originated and where those orders kept coming from.
Individuals ? Departments ? It would all have to be documented I know if I was asked and was going to do it I’d have proof somewhere for a day like this. ‘Look I was under orders’ !! Anyone facing 10 years prison will sing like a canary.
Are their finances outsourced to an accountant? I don’t know the specifics but it’d be great to understand these metrics when looking to blame individuals.
Possible punishments could be;
Don’t owners have licenses ? Revoke them.
Fit and proper tests? Failed.
You could go as far as expelling the owners, forcing them to sell, expulsion from the pyramid but where do they end up? Definite relegation is needed.
500m fine – reinvested in Grassroots with, I might add, proper transparency on where it’s spent, working with local councils building new facilities and pitches, paying for coaching and refereeing programs at junior level.
Transfer bans. They knew this was coming, Pep jumped and they spent a fortune sprucing up their squad.
European ban perhaps ? Is that a UEFA decision ? Because I think their financial rules have been broken too correct me if I’m wrong.
Two things need to be taken into account when it comes to punishments;
1: the sport and its integrity.
2: politics.
By allowing state ownership the PL have left themselves with a huge dilemma, both of the above will be taken into account and I suspect secret meetings will take place to nut out an agreement on the punishment to appease the owners and try and keep those $$$ in the UK.
Also, the PL need a system where books and finances are checked quarterly so any none compliance is dealt with within that season, not 8 years later after a 3 year investigation it’s ridiculous. Fail a quarterly audit – points deduction, fine, transfers ban depending on the severity. Dealt with instantly and not years later.
This is hard because the rules state a loss over a 3 year period is allowed so maybe that needs looking at I dunno what we do here.
Lastly, what have Ctiy’s finances looked like from 18/19 to now? Is that a whole other saga ??
Gibbo (MUFC – down under)
A banker Put your money on it in the prediction markets, however it works. 60 point deduction, 2 year player registration ban and 30 points off if they stay up or next time they’re in the PL. Plus a massive fine obviously. Exclusive reveal, based on close sources located in my head and online.
JC, Oviedo (the bluest city there is, footballing wise)
Not a political email I know there’s a lot of feeling and emotion about City’s transgressions. I’m an Arsenal fan so I am certainly not an apologist. I also want the harshest possible sanctions imposed.
However, I’d like to respond to Kenneth from Dublin and say in absolutely no way is what Burnham said like anything like whataboutery when it comes to the Nazis. Nor is anything City have done akin to the Nazis. What a completely unequivocally ridiculous apolitical email that was. We can condemn cheating in sport while retaining a level of perspective, surely?
James, Kent
Ten Manchester City grounds for appeal and why they won’t wash
Ten Manchester City grounds for appeal and why they won’t wash