CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs' recent struggles, focusing on their three-game losing streak.
How to watch the Cavs: See how to watch the Cavs games with this handy game-by-game TV schedule.
Takeaways:
The Cavs are experiencing a three-game losing streak but maintain a strong position in the Eastern Conference.
Donovan Mitchell’s performance has declined, impacting the team’s overall effectiveness.
Defensive consistency is a major concern for the Cavs, especially in high-pressure situations.
Kenny Atkinson is experimenting with lineups and rotations to prepare for the playoffs.
Rebounding has been a significant issue, particularly against larger opponents.
The Cavs have relied heavily on 3-point shooting, which could be a vulnerability in the playoffs.
The team needs to address their late-game decision-making and execution.
Learning from losses can be beneficial for the Cavs' growth as a team.
The importance of maintaining a balanced offensive approach is crucial for success.
Fans should be patient with the team’s experimentation as they prepare for the postseason.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands
What up Cavs Nation, I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast and joining me, 2.30 a.m. Eastern Standard Time from Sacramento after the Cavs' third straight loss, 123-119 to the Sacramento Kings, Chris Fedor, Cleveland.com beat reporter, Chris.
I have a lot of thoughts over the last two games. We haven’t gotten to break down the first stretch of the road trip, but I wanted to get your sense, especially as you are in Sacramento, what the vibe is in the locker room, what you thought of tonight’s game, what you thought of the last stretch, what you thought about this Cavs team, especially as we look at their second half offensive productivity or lack thereof. What do you think?
Chris (01:19.598)
think we have to start here, Ethan. The vibes are the same in the Cavs locker room. They understand that they’ve got a big cushion over the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference. They understand that even though they lost their chance at joining the 70 win club and even though they no longer have the number one overall seed in the NBA, that they’ve accomplished some really, really important things throughout the course of this regular season.
And Donovan Mitchell didn’t want to use the term happy to describe this three-game losing streak and he certainly didn’t want to come across as happy after losing to the Kings the way that the Cavs did tonight. But there was a sense from Donovan of the Cavs needed this.
that the Cavs are going to grow from this. The Cavs are going to be better from this. That remains to be seen, of course, but he thinks this is a good thing that’s going to force them to take a harder look at some of these flaws that they’ve shown here in the last three games that have been masked by a regular season that has been historic for them. He feels like some of these issues that showed up tonight against Sacramento, the other night against Los Angeles,
Were kind of buried beneath a pile of wins they were able to overcome those things because they just kept winning these games and Like I said, he didn’t want to use the term happy but he essentially said that he was happy about this and he believes that This is the kind of thing that that is needed right now for the Cavs and we’ll just see
what kinds of changes come from this, if any, for this team.
Ethan Sands (03:06.457)
I mean, I think Donovan had a similar perspective after the Orlando Magic loss a couple of days ago back in Cleveland. And I feel like the word he used was glad or gracious because you understand that this Cavs team has had the ability to learn through wins. And that’s what they’ve talked about all season, right? The ability to learn through wins. But I kind of agree with Donovan Mitchell.
Chris (03:20.376)
Hmm.
Ethan Sands (03:36.003)
They needed to get smacked in the face. They needed some adversity outside of the adversity that they faced against some of the upper echelon teams around the NBA this season. And they put themselves in some precarious situations as a play. Matter of fact, Chris, they put themselves in some precarious situations over the last month. It, as again, as mentioned, they have just been hidden by being able to pull out these losses or pulling out these wins and these chases.
The Cavs, I don’t think we can talk about this without saying that Darius Garland was not there tonight. He was resting against the Sacramento Kings. This is something that we’ve talked about on this podcast at length. It’s going to happen for the majority of the rest of the season as they prepare for the playoffs because again, the regular season is not a big deal for this Cleveland Cavaliers team. They still have the ability to break the regular season franchise record and still in play, but it’s not important.
Chris (04:26.956)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (04:34.893)
It’s not what they’re looking for. And Chris, I know you wrote about this yesterday after the game in Los Angeles about the two main objectives for this team. But I want to focus more on this game and the areas you think are the biggest that the Cavs will look to try and approve, improve on over the latter half of this five game Western conference road trip before heading home. What do you think are the biggest things for this Cleveland Cavaliers team?
that need to be improved upon especially when thinking about a playoff series.
Chris (05:10.732)
I mean, think Donovan needs to be better. Can we start there? If we’re talking about the leader of this team, if we’re talking about, you know, the mouthpiece of this team, Donovan was very, very good in the fourth quarter. He did basically everything right for them in the final two minutes. He finally made a three point shot in the closing stretch of the game, but
In March, his numbers have fallen off significantly. He just hasn’t had the same level of efficiency, not from the field, not from three point range. And Donovan has talked throughout the course of this season and coming into this season that he wanted to improve on his efficiency. It’s one of the things that he was focused on trying to get easier shots, trying not to force the action.
understanding that sometimes things are going to flow through Evan Mobley and Darius Garland and that means that Donovan’s going to have to pick his spots and things along those lines, but you know, they need Donovan Mitchell to play like the MVP candidate that he was for a majority of this season for them to function at the highest level that they want to function at. So they need him to lock in. They need him to be better than what he’s been in March. And I just don’t think it’s a coincidence that
You know the level of play that the Cavs have shown over the last two weeks three weeks I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s that it’s tied in to the way that Donovan has played To the drop-off that Donovan has had And again, it’s only March the playoffs aren’t tomorrow. They’re not next week
So there’s plenty of time for him to regress in a positive manner. And there’s plenty of time for him to start to dig into the film and see some things that aren’t necessarily working on his end and see what corrections he can make and all those kinds of things.
Chris (07:12.024)
But he needs to be great. He needs to play at an MVP level for the Cavs to be the best version of themselves. He needs to be an impactful player on a nightly basis. And I think for him, you know, tonight it was pretty glaring. His decision making, his passing, the lackadaisical nature that he was showing throughout the majority of the game. Like I said, Ethan, he really turned it on in the fourth quarter, but...
You know, before that, it’s just the decision making was perplexing. The way that he was running the offense was pretty perplexing. And the other thing that stands out to me, and this is like a no-do statement when you give up 76 points in the second half to the Kings and you allow them to shoot better than 60 % from the field in the second half, the defense just...
I think there’s been too much of this for the defense, too much up and down for the defense. It has been throughout the course of the season. And the overall numbers, the overall numbers point to a team that has a top 10 defense again. But the night to night consistency, the week to week consistency, the month to month consistency, it just hasn’t been there. And I don’t think the Cavs...
I don’t think they can get into this sense of, you know, we have the talent to be such an elite defense that we can just turn it whenever we want to. Like, they can’t fall into that particular trap because they’re not the Thunder. They don’t have that level of defense that the Thunder have. They haven’t shown that level of defense that the Thunder have shown. So I think it’s a little bit...
I think it’s a little bit human nature what the Cavs are going through right now, but I also think there’s an obvious slippage on the defensive end of the floor that is miffing Kenny Atkinson and that the players have certainly pointed out, rightfully so.
Ethan Sands (09:27.865)
think you have a great point on both ends of the ball, right? When you talk about Donovan Mitchell’s slippage, you talk about his lack of production. You also talk about Darius Garland, who we know has also been in a slump as well. And that’s why the Cavs have fallen out of the top 10 when it comes to the last 10 games in offensive rating. And they’ve also fallen out of the top 10 in defensive rating as well when it comes to the last 10 contests of the season for the Cleveland Cavaliers who are now
Chris (09:51.502)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (09:57.797)
56 and 13. So I think it’s obvious that there are definitely changes that need to be made, whether it’s offensively, defensively in the scheme, but something that I’ve noticed for what we get going into the playoffs and something that I have noted as something that is notable, but also one thing that I want to keep an eye on going into the playoffs is throughout this entire season, the biggest thing
that we have noted of Kenny Atkinson’s system, of Kenny Atkinson’s scheme to allow other players around them to be successful is not only going away from guys that are in the rotation and role players that have been unsuccessful at times, especially in game situations, but also going away from their star players. And it feels like Kenny Atkinson hasn’t done that in the last two games. Obviously, this is a small sample size. This is something that we want to monitor.
Not something we are concerned about just yet, but Donovan’s productivity offensively, not just scoring the basketball, obviously it was great in the fourth quarter, but also passing the ball, turnovers. These things can build up and be difficult to come back from for any player in the NBA when it comes to a particular game because they fall into a flow of all these different things. especially with Darius Garland out, I don’t know what Kenny Atkinson’s options were in this game in particular.
Chris (11:05.965)
Hmm.
Ethan Sands (11:24.645)
But I’m more so referencing the game against the Los Angeles Clippers where he had options like Max Struess, Deandre Hunter, who were shooting the ball phenomenally and did not go to them in the fourth quarter for a majority of that period. Obviously in tonight’s game, Evan Mobley was huge in his aspect of getting to the ball. Rebounding, three offensive boards, seven defensive boards, 10 rebounds in general, 31 points, 13 of 18 from the field.
And then Donovan Mitchell comes in behind him with 26 points, 8 of 17. He had five boards, four assists, three turnovers. And then we had other players coming in at double digit scoring. The Cavs had six players in double digits, which has become a regular for this team. But to this point, when we talk, go ahead, Chris, sorry.
Chris (12:16.364)
I just want to go back to what you said about Kenny Atkinson and some of the slip ups in late game situations. I think it’s fair to point those things out because they are happening. Tonight I think there’s a legitimate question about whether he should have had
Isaac Ikoro in the game in a late game situation to see if he could have guarded Demar DeRozan a little bit better than DeAndre Hunter. I think there’s a legitimate question about should the Cavs have been in a switch everything type mode in the late game situation and gave you know the Kings the kinds of matchups that they thought were advantageous for them either for Demar DeRozan or for Malik Monk. Like they called screens for certain guys and they felt like hey the Cavs are going
to switch and we’re going to attack in that kind of way. I think it’s fair to wonder about the usage of Isaac and whether his minutes should go up and whether you take Sam’s down a little bit because Sam Merrill, like from an athleticism standpoint, from a productivity standpoint, the last couple of games against Los Angeles in Sacramento, it just didn’t seem like, you know, those against those style teams with that personnel.
Didn’t seem like it was suitable to Sam being successful for the game So like all of those things are fair and that’s part of what we do is we look at Decisions throughout the course of a season decisions throughout the course of a game and we talk about them But I think I have to point this out I wouldn’t be doing my job if I wasn’t pointing this out and I know fans aren’t necessarily going to like this but
Folks, the Cavs are not in a situation where they’re looking at winning at all cost. They’re not. Like, do they want to win these games? Sure. Of course they do. But like, the decisions that Kenny is making throughout the course of this stretch, some of them are going to work and some of them are going to fail. And the ones that fail are going to be informative to him.
Chris (14:29.826)
Like it doesn’t mean that all of sudden Kenny Atkinson isn’t as smart as what he was at the beginning of the season. I think there’s a truth here that if you’re willing to admit it, you will see that Kenny is going to do some off the wall things for the sake of learning. And some of those are going to lead to people scratching their head. And some of those are going to lead to the Cavs losing.
But it’s all for the benefit of this team because he wants to see how can DeAndre Hunter hold up in late game situations against those switches, against Demar DeRozan, against Malik Monk. How can Evan Mobley hold up in late game situations in switches against guys who are a little bit more crafty, against guys who can probably take him off the dribble? Because it’s all going to allow Kenny to make better decisions when they’re more important.
And they’re more important when the playoffs roll around. So yeah, he’s going to experiment. Yeah, he’s going to keep running guys out there at various points that aren’t having as much success that the plus minus says that they shouldn’t be out there. The net rating says that they shouldn’t be out there, but that’s part of what this final stretch of the regular season is about. That’s part of the beauty of not having to chase wins.
that’s part of the beauty of not feeling like you have to win at all cost. Was this the best opportunity for the Cavs to rest Darius Garland? No, probably not. Probably not. Not if the number one goal was to win the game against Sacramento. But again, it shows that there is a big picture approach here. There has been from the very beginning of the season.
And just because the Cavs had lost two games in a row coming into tonight, it doesn’t mean that they were going to alter that. Just because they have now lost three games in a row doesn’t mean that they’re going to alter it in Phoenix. Kenny’s going to continue to do different things with his lineups and with his rotations, with his end of game situations, because he wants to see what works and what doesn’t work. And sometimes you learn the most from failure.
Chris (16:51.274)
Sometimes you get more information by seeing what doesn’t work so that you can be better prepared for certain situations when it’s just more meaningful to this organization. So I’m just warning everybody right now. He’s going to continue to do this, especially in late game situations.
and fans are going to continue to ask these questions because not all of these things are going to work because in a weird roundabout way in some cases they don’t make all the most sense for the calves and based on how the game is unfolding and stuff like that
Ethan Sands (17:34.917)
I 100 % agree and I understand where you’re coming from. And I think it’s funny because as a reporter who gets to talk to Kenny almost every home game, it’s like, I try and think of based on where are we at in the season, how you respond to a question that I similarly ask him at the end of games. Like, why did you end up going with this lineup, this matchup, this decision and all these things? And when I was doing that after last night’s game,
I was like, hmm, those answers that he would probably give me don’t make sense in this situation, right? Why would you go away from Max or DeAndre? Or in this case, why would you stick with Sam Merrill while he’s a minus 14? And my biggest thing when it comes to the Dean Wade and Sam Merrill minutes, because I see them as particularly similar because they’re shooters that spread the floor, that Kedi Atkinson loves because they can impact the defensive end.
Chris (18:11.351)
Mm.
Chris (18:19.022)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (18:33.185)
in certain situations, but the biggest thing for them to make an impact on the offensive end and not negate anything that they’re doing on the defensive end is they’re taking shots, right? It’s not necessarily just pulling gravity for Sam Merrill because obviously he has that ability for opposing teams, but if you take zero shots in a game, people are going to start think...
thinking differently about that scouting report, even just a little bit, right? Okay, we can, if he’s not gonna take these open shots, if he’s not gonna take these contested shots, we can think a little bit differently about him, right? In the 12 minutes of tonight’s game, Sam Merrill took zero shots, right? And in the other game against, when Dean Wade against the Los Angeles Clippers, Dean Wade didn’t take a whole lot of shots, right? That kind of, they’re different in the spacing, they’re different in the...
the ability to move around the ball because Sam Merrill comes off screens, all these other things, but they’re shooters, they’re spacers, they’re gravity pullers, right? That’s why Dean Wade is such, where before Deandre Hunter got here was such a great asset because he spaces the floor without having to be able, be in the dunker spot and taking up space as a big man at six foot 10 and above, all those things. But again, my main thing is if these guys aren’t taking shots, then
It’s kind of evening out what they’re doing on the defensive end, what they’re doing on the offensive end. But tonight Dean Wade was different and that’s what I liked from him, right? Four of six from deep, four of eight from the field, he was taking shots. Now I’m gonna ask the same thing as Sam Harrell. Like if you’re gonna be out there, especially if you’re gonna be a liability on defense, you have to take these shots, especially the open ones. And that’s the biggest thing that I’ve seen for this Cavs team is they continue to try and be too perfect at times.
They try and find the best shot possible, even though there is a quote unquote good shot or open shot. They’re looking for a wide open shot that necessarily won’t come in a possession. And they’ve begun to resort back to their season last year when they were throwing up shots at the end of shot clocks, rather than finding the best shot available in every given situation. What do you think about how K-I Consent has not only used the rotation in the last couple of games,
Ethan Sands (20:55.353)
but also the impact of these guys that are coming off the bench and their roles as 3 and D guys, especially when they’re not taking those threes.
Chris (21:05.262)
I think Kenny’s still looking. I think he’s still learning. I think there are certain things about certain players that he’s still trying to have a better understanding of. And I think, when you talk about the core four players,
And then you can add DeAndre into the mix because, you know, obviously he’s going to be a big part of their success or failure in the postseason. You know, beyond those guys, maybe Ty to some degree, but I still think there’s like a level of question with Ty as well. So I do think it’s the core four plus DeAndre where
It is a solidified nightly role when you start talking about big picture, when you start talking about the playoffs. Those five guys are going to play the most minutes on this roster. Beyond that, Ethan, like roles are going to be fluid. Roles are going to be based on personnel roles are going to be based on situation roles are going to be based on, matchups and stuff like that.
And I think Kenny’s still learning. Okay, like what types of teams can I get away with playing Sam Merrill against? Okay, what types of coverages can I get away with playing Isaac Okoro and some of his limitations offensively against? Okay, what types of teams are best suited for Ty Jerome to be at his best and allow us to be at our best?
when Ty is out there on the floor. Same thing when it comes to Dean Wade. And I just think the only way that Kenny is going to get these answers is through trial and error. So I think that’s part of what this final stretch is about. there’s a reason why these guys are considered role players. And there’s a reason why a number of them aren’t getting paid.
Chris (23:15.694)
30 to 40 million dollars per year with their contracts. Like we’ve talked about this in the past. Not everybody is going to get the minutes, the shots, the touches that Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Deandre. It’s just the way that a team is constructed. It’s a way that this team is constructed. So I think the other thing to point out here, Ethan, is that
There’s this weird thing that tends to happen in sports and it’s like, because teams talk about peaking at the right time and being at their best at the right time, you know, people have latched onto that and in their own way, whether it’s purposeful or not, they assign more weight to what happens at the end of a season. And like, I just don’t think you can do that.
I don’t think you can sit here and say, well, you know, this three game losing streak is more meaningful because of the time of it, because of when it’s happening, because of the playoffs being right around the corner. And then ignore the fact that, you know, at the beginning of the season, the Cavs just ripped through the rest of the NBA and no defense had answers for them.
And like, just have to be careful about assuming because a team goes through a bad stretch and it coincides with the end of the season and it coincides with the playoffs being right around the corner, that all of sudden teams have figured them out or something along those lines. Or all of a sudden these flaws that they’re showing toward the end of the season are ones that are going to carry over into the playoffs.
Like Boston went two and two down the stretch and there were reasons behind that and there were circumstances tied to that, but that didn’t prevent them from going on to win a championship. The Cavs weren’t very good down the stretch last year and they still won their first round playoff series against Orlando. Did it go a little bit further than people expected? Yeah. Was it more competitive than people wanted it to be or expected it to be? Yeah.
Chris (25:35.436)
but like their bad play at the end of the season didn’t carry over into game one of that series. You know what I mean? So I just think we have to be careful about making too much of a deal about what happens with a team down the stretch of a season and assigning more weight to it just because of its timing. Like yes, there are things that the Cavs are not doing well right now.
We can all admit that their point of attack defense has been so lousy. They’re putting so much pressure on Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to protect them and erase those mistakes and stuff like that. And they’re perplexing decisions that Kenny is making in certain situations throughout the course of the game, whether it’s with lineups or sets to go to. And there are guys who are not playing to their standard. Darius, Donovan, both of them come to mind.
Sam Merrill’s production and his impact that’s fluctuated, right? Dean Wade, his production, his impact that has fluctuated. Even DeAndre Hunter from a scoring standpoint.
That has fluctuated recently as well. So there are certain things that are happening with this team that I think are fair to point out and say that they’re not doing these things as well as they need to. They need to rebound better. They need to be better at the point of attack. They need to be better when it comes to defense as a whole. But even though we can admit that they need to be better with these things.
And they threw this game away tonight against the Sacramento Kings It doesn’t mean That like there are all of these flaws that the Cavs have that are being exposed that are going to Be problematic when the playoffs are all around
Ethan Sands (27:34.277)
So Chris, let me be hyperbolic or whatever you want to call it. Just one more time before we get out of this conversation, let me bring up one final piece that I think you also mentioned in your last field about the rebounding because obviously last night against the Los Angeles Clippers, the Cavs were out rebounded by 20 and then tonight they were out rebounded again. And Valen Chunis had 13 rebounds while
Chris (27:47.263)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (28:02.373)
Jared Allen and Evan Mobley combined for 15. So I know this is a team that has honed in on their rebounding, has asked a lot of their guards, their forwards, and all of these things when it comes to the rebounding aspect. And I’m not trying to ask you if you are worried about this because obviously it’s a two game stretch and the Cavs are 56 and 13 and that’s not the question I want to ask. But how significant
Chris (28:06.722)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (28:32.485)
Do you think it could be if the Cavs end up facing a larger big such as Giannis Antetokounmpo, such as let’s say, not even Carl Anthony Towns, Mitchell Robinson, who are known for rebounding and creating second chance opportunities. Obviously Kenny Atkinson is harped on the possession battle. They won that battle last night, even though they lost to the Clippers. Tonight, they lost that battle 91 to 84 to the Sacramento Kings.
Chris (28:46.445)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (29:01.145)
How important is that in Evan Mobley and Jared Allen’s production on the boards when it comes to their playoff viability, when it comes to how that could impact how far they end up in the playoffs?
Chris (29:17.038)
Well, Valen Chunis had 13 rebounds, five of them on the offensive end of the floor, but he was a minus 17. So I don’t know that he was necessarily a problem for the Cavs because he was somebody that they were able to go at, pull out to the perimeter, beat off the dribble and take advantage of in other ways. But, but I think the point you make is a sound one. And I think the truth is Ethan and like there are ways to overcome this.
But stylistically, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen aren’t Jonas Valanchunas. Right? Stylistically, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are not Avika Zubach. And that’s just the way it is. They’re different kinds of bigs. They’re more skilled. Right? They’re quicker in foot. They’re more versatile. Especially on the defensive end of the floor. So...
Like yeah, there are going to be certain matchups where the Cavs do not have the size, bulk, strength, physicality advantage. That’s just the truth. Like you can’t snap your fingers and make Evan Mobley 270 pounds. You can’t snap your fingers and put 20 pounds of muscle or bulk on Jared Allen before the playoffs start. So there are times where they are going to get outmuscled.
And they are going to get pushed around. But the way that the Cavs can combat that is with the skill that those guys have with the athleticism that those guys have with the foot speed that those guys have. I mean, if you think about what happened about midway through the third quarter against Sacramento tonight, Evan Mobley started banging threes because Vailentunis couldn’t get out to the perimeter to contest.
because he’s a lumbery big. And then on the next few possessions down the floor, Evan got the ball behind the three point line, either above the break or top of the key. He pump faked. He pulled Valen Tunis out to him. Valen Tunis had a sloppy closeout because he’s not comfortable out there on the perimeter and because he’s slow heavy footed. And Evan was able to beat him off the dribble, draw a foul.
Chris (31:34.624)
or create a collapsing defense of the Sacramento Kings that opened up opportunities for his other teammates. That’s the advantage of Evan Mobley, right? To some degree, that can be an advantage for somebody like Jared Allen. No, he doesn’t have a three point shot. No, he doesn’t have as much off the dribble game, but he can create advantages with his specific skill set.
that can be beneficial for the cows at both ends of the floor. So the other thing that I would say is that you know Zubach doesn’t play for the Detroit Pistons or the Indiana Pacers or the Milwaukee Bucks or
any a number of these teams that the Cavs could theoretically see in the Eastern Conference playoffs. And I just don’t know beyond Porzingis, who clearly gives Evan Mobley problems and gives other guys around the NBA problems. I just don’t know who that looming big is that would make things such a physical mismatch for the Cavs or for the Cavs big man tandem.
Sure, you could say Mitchell Robinson because he’s an elite offensive rebounder. and he’s a guy who gives a lot of teams problems. But how many minutes a night is he going to play in a playoff environment for the Knicks when so much of their focus this season has become, how do we get more dynamic offensively? How do we get more explosive offensively? That’s why they have cat there.
So unless Kat is in significant foul trouble or a specific matchup is going to call for it for the Knicks, is Mitchell Robinson gonna play 30 to 35 minutes a night in a potential series? I find that hard to believe. So I just don’t know that there’s that looming big out there that I’m sitting here today and I’m saying.
Chris (33:37.474)
You know, Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, they’re both going to be overwhelmed physically by X player. They’re not gonna see him bead. Like I said, Zubac is in the Western Conference. Isaiah Hartenstein is in the Western Conference. You know, Alper and Shangoon is in the Western Conference. Jokic. Jokic is in the Western Conference.
So I just don’t know, like, yes, it’s worth monitoring. It’s worth pointing out. There is a reality to the way that some of these things tend to transpire in certain kinds of matchups when it comes to Jarrett and Evan. And they both have to be better when it comes to rebounding. But I just don’t know, like, I don’t know that that’s going to be the thing that prevents the calves.
from getting to the NBA finals. I find it hard to believe that it’s going to just based on certain matchups.
Ethan Sands (34:41.175)
I don’t disagree with you. And obviously the Mitchell Robinson conversation is definitely something that could change because he’s only played eight games for the New York Knicks coming into tonight, starting one. And we obviously understand that the Sacramento Kings were also without some of their key players. And that’s basically more so what I’m thinking about. Like they were, the Cavs were out rebounded without Demontes Sabonis on the floor, without Zach Levine on the floor. And it’s obviously
a different element when you have those different rebounding aspects and those different players, but I’m gonna end the podcast with this. The biggest thing that the Cavs have relied on this season is their shooting. The Cavs have been over-reliant in some cases on their 3-point shooting. And in tonight’s matchup, Evan Mobley and Dean Wade were 8 of 11 from deep. The rest of the Cleveland Cavaliers were 5 of 23.
Chris (35:29.198)
Mm.
Ethan Sands (35:42.083)
that is, in a word, unacceptable. And I think even though they shot 38.2 % from deep in the game as a team, a majority of that is coming from Abimoli and Dean Wade. Obviously we’ve talked about Dean Wade’s roller coaster of being productive on the offensive end. So I don’t think the Cavs are gonna rely on him too heavily to be an offensive scoring mechanism for them. But I think
When you talk about this team, obviously 54.8 % from the field isn’t nothing to sneeze at, but in the last two games, they’ve been outshot because they’ve played lackadaisical defense against the Clippers, who are a great offensive field goal percentage and three point shooting team. Obviously they had, I believe it was the 11th best in the 14th, the, yeah, the 11th best field goal percentage in the 14th best.
Chris (36:23.735)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (36:38.981)
3.5 % is Cavs the other night and they shot 54.8 % from the field and over nearly 45 % from deep. So that just shows you that this Cavs team when they’re not locked in on defense, especially when their shots aren’t falling, they are and can be vulnerable. But again, 56 and 13, not a team that we are necessarily worried about, but just things to monitor as they near the playoffs. Chris, any lasting remarks?
Chris (37:07.384)
Look, mean, I think there’s... Yeah, I mean, I think there’s... I think there’s a specific formula for beating the calves, or at least staying competitive with them. And, like, I do think that there is a specific number that points to whether the calves are going to succeed or fail, and, you know, it may sound simplistic, but the numbers back it up. And if you look at the last couple of games...
Both the Clippers and surprisingly the Kings Very surprised with the Kings because the Kings Coming into tonight’s game and all the personnel has changed throughout the course of the year and whatnot but Coming into tonight’s game the Kings were 24th in the NBA and three point makes per game They made 16 they were plus 9 against the Cavs, know, not a lot of teams
can win the three-point shooting contest against the Cavs. Some teams can, some teams have. It’s two in a row that have, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Cavs have lost both games. So when they shoot 40 % or better from three-point range, the Cavs are 28 and 3. They’re almost unbeatable. But when the opponent shoots 40 % or better from three-point range,
And I’m not 100 % convinced that this includes tonight’s game, by the way. I was trying to do the quick math on it as best I could. So maybe it includes tonight’s game, maybe it doesn’t include tonight’s game in terms of the record, but the point remains even if it’s not going to be 100 % accurate. The King shot 45 % from three-point range tonight.
When opponents shoot better than 40 % from three point range against the Cavs, the Cavs are 11 and 9. They’re basically a 500 basketball team. We’re talking about nine of their 12 losses, 13 now. Maybe it’s nine of 12, depending on when this stat was compiled. So we’re talking about almost every single one of their losses.
Chris (39:32.854)
It’s been a team that has been able to keep up with them from three point range or make them pay for sloppy closeouts, miscommunication, defensive breakdowns, not being guarded enough at the point of attack. You know, all those different things. so that is, you know, if you want to hang with the calves, if you want to beat the calves,
You better have the kind of offense that is capable of doing what Sacramento did tonight. What the Clippers did the other night, what Boston has done throughout the course of this year against them, what the Hawks have been able to do at various points throughout the course of the year against them. You got to make threes at a high rate. and if the Cavs aren’t going to contest well enough at three point line, if they aren’t going to be
on top of it with attention to detail and following the scouting report and stuff like that, then these open threes from Keegan Murray, Malik Monk, look if DeRozan’s gonna hit a bunch of threes you just say alright whatever, you know what I mean? But like Malik Monk, Keegan Murray, those guys are near the top of the scouting report anytime you play against the Kings and you have to worry about them from three point range.
And if you’re not going to follow those scouting reports, if you’re not going to execute properly on defense, then these three point shots from teams that throughout the course of the season haven’t been, you know, the best three points, they’re going to become easier and then they’re going to go in and then they’re going to get all this confidence. then by then, when you try and turn it on defensively and you try and lock in defensively, it becomes a little bit too late.
So any team that’s going to have any chance of competing with the Cavs in a seven game series in the postseason has to be able to do what the Kings did tonight.
Ethan Sands (41:31.301)
And I just did a little quick basketball reference search on the Cavs for what they’ve lost in their record against teams that have shot above 40 % from three point range this season. They’ve lost, including tonight, 10 of their 13 losses when that team shot 40 % or better from deep. So just clarifying, making sure that stat is correct for Chris, because I don’t want our...
our friends that like to come in and listen in and try and correct things to have that opportunity. But I think it’s a good point. I think the three point shot has been what the Cazas relied on most this season. And again, if they are not able to rely on that in the postseason when the defense is steeper, when the defense is more trying to run them off the three point line as teams have done with the Boston Celtics, it’s going to be a lot tougher for them to.
for the Cavs to have the same success as they have throughout the regular season. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14-day free trial or visit cleveland.com slash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop.
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