CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs’ areas of concern before the playoffs.
How to watch the Cavs: See how to watch the Cavs games with this handy game-by-game TV schedule.
Takeaways:
Kenny Atkinson has given multiple options for voluntary shootarounds for player rest.
The Cavs' recent losing streak raises concerns but is seen as correctable.
Teams are targeting Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen in defensive switches.
Cavs' shooting percentages have dropped significantly in March.
Donovan Mitchell’s shooting slump is an area to keep an eye on as the regular season nears its end.
Jarrett Allen’s injury management is crucial for playoff readiness.
The depth of the roster is essential for playoff success.
End-of-season awards are still competitive and undecided.
The Cavs need to maintain focus and not overreact to March performance.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands
What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, the man, the myth, the legend from Phoenix, Chris Fedor. And we are going to be podcasting before tonight’s matchup between the Phoenix Suns and the Cleveland Cavaliers.
I know, I know some of you love our reacting podcasts after games, but this is also the dog days of the NBA for us reporters and I need some sleep. So we’re going to do this at 4 40 PM Eastern time before the matchup at 10 PM Eastern time tonight. So.
We have to get into a couple of topics that go around the Phoenix Suns game, even though we shall preview it very, very slightly. Chris, I know you’ve been around this team and I know you’ve been around Dan Gilbert for a long time. I wanted to get your sense of this team, the Cleveland Cavaliers versus the Phoenix Suns, why it may mean a little bit more and why you think this team has just so much metal.
going into a contest where, again, dog days at the NBA, but in that opportunity to rest guys down the stretch in the regular season, everybody’s available for the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Chris (01:44.254)
Well, I mean, I think everybody’s available for the Cavs right now because there’s no reason to rest anyone. Darius got his rest night. The other night, Donovan Mitchell got his rest last week. Evan Mobley got a rest night as well. You know, and this isn’t the second game of a back to back. It’s not a situation where the Cavs got in late night into Phoenix. Like the circumstances surrounding this particular game didn’t really lend itself to a logical rest night for any of these players.
And I think the Cavs had enough time off in between the game against Sacramento and today against Phoenix, they had a voluntary shoot around as opposed to a mandatory shoot around. So guys were able to stay off their feet. If they wanted to stay off the feet, they were able to, you know, take in some sun. If they wanted to take in some sun, they were able to kind of escape basketball. If they wanted to do that, that’s part of what Kenny Atkinson has done here in the second half of the season is.
turn these mandatory shoot-arounds into voluntary ones. And I think, you know, in most cases, Ethan, coming off back-to-back losses, three losses in a row, you would have a situation where the team would probably practice. But the way that the schedule is set up and playing every other day and, you know, the only time that they’ve been home recently has been just like a 48-hour pit stop, basically, maybe 36-hour.
pit stop basically, it’s just hard to practice at this point in time. So I think Kenny looks at it and saying, okay, we could either practice or give the guys kind of like a mental reset, give the guys an opportunity to stay off their legs if that’s what they want to do. So let’s make shoot around voluntary as opposed to mandatory. It’s just little things that the Cavs have to do to navigate.
What is a very, very difficult march? Everybody knew march was going to be tough to begin with. 16 games and 30 nights, 10 of those on the road. The home games have been basically one-off home games where they stop home, leave again. So there are lot of circumstances surrounding this month specifically, but when talking about this game against Phoenix, the circumstances don’t really lend itself to a rest night or anything along those lines. Beyond that,
Chris (04:08.23)
I think, yeah, you’re right. The players don’t feel this. The coaches don’t feel this. But Dan Gilbert does not have any kind of relationship with Matt Ishbia. Those two guys won’t even say the other one’s name. It’s just the owner of the Cavs or the owner of the Suns. you know, any opportunity, if the Cavs win tonight, I am going to be monitoring Dan Gilbert’s ex-account.
just to kind of see what he puts out there, if he puts anything out there. It’s obviously going to be East Coast time, it’s going to be really, really late, but any opportunity that Dan has to needle Matt Ishbia, or the other way around, obviously, each guy is going to take full advantage of that. But I don’t think that specifically is the reason why the calves are full go tonight against the suns and not resting anyone.
Like there are going to be other games throughout the course of this month where the Cavs are at full strength and they’re not resting anyone. And then there are going to be other games down the stretch where they are going to rest guys. But I don’t think the losing streak, I don’t think the fact that they’re playing Phoenix, I don’t think that’s really tying into like an organizational decree to beat the Suns or something like that so that Dan can have some fodder for the X community.
Ethan Sands (05:33.952)
I think it could be a lot of the matchups that the Cavs could get to deal with tonight too. And sure, I think the fun part is it is looking on X slash Twitter and see what Dan Gilbert might tweet out afterwards. And I think if there’s anybody that can break down Cavs cryptic tweets or texts or social media, Chris has the most experience doing that in his tenure covering the beat. But I think when you talk about.
Chris (05:59.998)
Shout out to LeBron for that one.
Ethan Sands (06:02.19)
I wasn’t gonna name names but go off. I mean, obviously the Phoenix Suns are going to be shorthanded slightly. They’re gonna be without Bradley Beale with the left hamstring strain, Mason Plumlee will be out with a quadricep strain, and then Grayson Allen is questionable with a left foot strain. But I know that the main two pieces of this Phoenix Suns team that will give challenges
to the Cavs and will help Kenny Atkinson continue to work on his rotations, continue to work on end of game situations and things of that nature, are Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. And then you also throw in seven footer Nick Richards in there. So we got to figure out all these things, but I feel like there are layers to these different matchups, these different developments that are important because of what we’ve seen from the Cavs in the recent games. So Chris, I want to ask you straight up, what do you think
are some of the biggest areas of concern for the Cleveland Cavaliers over this last three game losing streak. What are you monitoring the most when you go into this game and as the road trip comes to an end?
Chris (07:20.222)
Obviously, I think you always have to be a little cognizant and careful when talking about the word concern with the best team in the Eastern Conference with the second best team in the NBA. When you have five months of data that points to a team being championship caliber, that points to a team being one of the best in the NBA, that points to a team being top 10 in offense and defense, and a team that has played with a level of consistency that is rare.
in NBA history, you have to be careful when using the term concern. And I think the only time that you use that term, Ethan, is when you see something that’s broken or you see something that isn’t correctable. And I think all the things that the Cavs have shown during this three game losing skid, I think they’re correctable. I think they’re obvious. And I don’t think there’s something that is deeper that’s going to carry over.
into the postseason or there’s a certain style of team that is going to be problematic for them or there’s a certain style of play that is going to be problematic for them. But there is an area that I’m going to continue to watch like as we go on. The other thing is everybody out there understand March basketball is weird. It’s always weird. The Thunder haven’t played to the same level that they played in the first five months.
Right? There are certain teams that have just turned it around and started to win that don’t make any sense that they’re actually winning. So it’s like, you can’t ignore all the other things that happened to this point just because like things are not as good as they once were for a team. In saying that, like there is a trend that is starting to develop here in teams.
are starting to get really really comfortable putting Evan Mobley and Jared Allen in these actions and They’re getting really comfortable in terms of pulling those guys out to the perimeter calling Calling for them specifically end of game situation Sacramento Demar DeRozan has the ball calls for a screen Who’s the screen setter the guy who Evan Mobley is guarding? Because everybody knows that the Cavs are gonna switch
Chris (09:46.756)
Majority of the time they are going to switch they’ve become one of the switch heaviest team in the NBA and and that’s by design Kenny Atkinson believes in that tactic Kenny Atkinson thinks that it’s very very important to be able to do that, especially in the playoffs but If the Cavs are gonna go with these lineups of one big
You know, they’re going to start obviously with Deandre Hunter or Isaac Okoro guarding whoever it is. Demar DeRozan the other night, Kawhi Leonard the other night, James Harden the other night. Could be Devin Booker when they play against the Phoenix Suns. So the Cavs' best perimeter defender is going to start on those guys. But everyone’s just going to be like, okay, we’re going to take the guy that Evan Mobley is guarding. We’re going to bring him up to the top of the key.
We’re going to use him as the screen setter. We’re going to force a switch and we’re okay going at Evan. Like that’s bizarre to me because he’s probably going to be the defensive player of the year, but that was Sacramento strategy in crunch time and Demar DeRozan cooked him. He beat him off the dribble, got past him, finished one at the rim, was able to create enough space to get to his mid range pull up, his pet shot. So
That’s something that I’m going to continue to watch, Ethan, because if they’re going to go away from the too big approach, that means the best rim protector, that means the best interior deterrent is going to be pulled out to the perimeter. And that puts a lot of pressure on the calves when it comes to rebounding. That puts a lot of pressure on the calves when it comes to point of attack defense. That puts a lot of pressure on the calves when it comes to
you know, protecting the paint in those situations. If your best paint protector and rim protector is 20 feet away from the basket, then it’s going to put a lot of pressure on DeAndre Hunter and Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland, the other guys, you know, to cover up defensive deficiencies or something along those lines. The beauty of the Cavs defense for the most part is that they have 48 minutes of elite rim protection.
Chris (12:05.496)
And in some cases, you know, they can dominate the paint and they have two guys, Jarrett and Evan, that erase mistakes that can make it so that if the guys get beat at the point of attack, they are there waiting. But if they can’t be there waiting because all these other teams are pulling them out to the perimeter, then I’m not sure.
Like if the Cavs defense can function at the same high level. So that’s something that I’m watching for. Because it happened the other night against the Clippers, like I said. It happened in crunch time against Sacramento. It could happen against Phoenix and Devin Booker. And you know that these teams are paying attention. And Evan Mobley, the best thing about him...
is all the different ways that he can impact the game at both ends of the floor, especially on the defensive end of the floor. But if he can’t be that same level of impact defender because he can’t hold up consistently in switches, or Jared Allen can’t hold up consistently in switches, it means one of two things. It means Kenny’s got to change the scheme and go away from the switch heavy thing, or two,
You know, these other guys who aren’t as good of defenders as Evan is, like their attention to detail, their focus, their intensity, their physicality, their approach on that and the floor, that’s going to have to ramp up a little bit more than what we’ve seen here in the month of March.
Ethan Sands (13:49.934)
I’ve noticed that as well. It was really crazy to see Evan Moley be attacked on multiple different possessions. And obviously we understand that Margot Rosen is one of the best at getting to his spots in the mid-range, specifically Kawhi Lender is in the same kind of category, right? But the fact is that it not only impacts what you mean with
Evan Mobley getting attacked, Allen getting attacked, but as you mentioned, the rebounding aspect of it, the turnovers aspect of it and how getting back in transition and having those different people on the defensive end, having to scatter and trying to figure out where they’re at and figure out who they’re guarding because all of those things go awry when you’re figuring out where you’re getting back on defense. It’s a crazy element to think about when you have two of the
Chris (14:28.648)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (14:39.64)
Premier Rim Protectors, as you mentioned, on the team. But I think it’s also who you have on the floor with them, right? Because as we know, Isaac Okoro is one of the best screen set of screen shedders in the NBA, right? He has a top percentile when it comes to getting around screens, getting through screens and helping in that area. The other thing is Kenny Atkinson has been so reliant
on this zone defense throughout the season, and yet in these situations, he decided to continue to go to the switchability of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, Dean Wade, Deandre Hunter, whoever you want to name, and these are all of the Cavs best defenders, which is why this conversation becomes even more interesting. And for me, Chris, when you talk about these decisions, we’ve talked about it you’ve mentioned it at an abundance on this podcast, is it because Kenny is trying to
Have Evan Mobley evolve into learning how to stop these actions, these attacks on him? Or do you feel like it’s just something that needs to be fixed now? Because we’ve talked about this, of how Kenny Atkinson is playing this experimentation game over the remainder of the regular season to figure out who, what, where, why to use everybody and figure out how they’re best utilized, especially in a seven game series in the playoffs.
Chris (16:00.616)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (16:08.286)
Well, the thing I’d say, Ethan, is that there is no magic bullet, right? Like, if you go to zone, there are vulnerabilities that you have with a zone. If you go to box and one, there are vulnerabilities that you have with a box and one. If you go to a switch heavy approach, there are vulnerabilities that you have with a switch heavy approach. So I think part of the reason why the Cavs weren’t as comfortable going zone against the Clippers, going zone against the Kings the other night is because rebondoning was a problem.
So it’s like, what’s the weak point of the zone? You’re susceptible to giving up offensive rebounds because you’re not matched up, because you’re in a location as opposed to playing against a player and already connected to that particular player. So if you’re already having a problem doing the thing that is problematic with a specific scheme, are you really that comfortable doing that? Like how many other rebounds would Zubac have corralled?
if they would have been in a zone. How many other offensive rebounds would Valanchunas have corralled if they were in a zone? So I think the Cavs have to be careful of it. And when you’re struggling with a specific area, rebounding specifically, the way that the Cavs were, going to a defensive tactic that makes you more vulnerable to that is probably not the best idea.
At least that was the sense that I got in talking to people after those games. And the other thing is, yes, Isaac Okoro is important. Yes, Dean Wade is important. Yes, Deandre Hunter important off the ball as well. But like, there’s a way to negate those guys. If the Cavs are going to be a switch heavy team, opponents know that and they understand like all I have to do to get Isaac off of my guy.
or Deandre off my guy, or Dean off my guy is go set a screen. That was the thing that the Cavs did 10 years ago against Golden State. Okay, we don’t want to deal with Dramons. We don’t want to deal with Clay. Put Steph’s guy in the action. Put whatever guy we want to. Put Anderson Veroujou’s guy in the action. Put Kavan Looney’s guy in the action. Was he around back then? I think you... No, was Festus Azealy.
Chris (18:30.898)
Excuse me. Put Festus Aziz’s guy in the action. You know what saying? So it’s like great perimeter defenders can be negated just by setting a very, very firm screen. So I think the Cavs have to figure that one out. I think that’s something that they need to continue to collect more data on and they need to continue to find the right adjustment. Like what do we do?
from a schematic standpoint when teams want to put Evan in the action or teams want to put Jared in the action because they feel like that is favorable and advantageous for them because they’re smaller, quicker, maybe a little bit shifty or you know what I’m saying? Like Evan’s seven feet, Jared Allen’s seven, he’s a big, he’s not supposed to be able to guard a point guard. You know what mean?
Like, he shouldn’t be able to guard Devin Booker. That should be a very, very difficult matchup for him. Sian says so. So like, what do the Cavs do to counter that? Do they just switch one through three and not one through five? Do they switch just one through four and not one through five? Do they not allow switching in those situations? So I think it’s something that the Cavs need to work through and find the counter to.
because the more and more the season has progressed and you have to have the right personnel to do this. You have to have the players on the offensive end that you feel like can attack Evan or attack Jarrett. But as the season has progressed, it seems like more and more teams are more comfortable doing that.
Ethan Sands (20:13.23)
And I think the point that you’re making about Evan Mobley guarding players like Devin Booker is he’s shown capability of doing it, right? You’re a seven footer being able to guard on the perimeter. And that’s what makes you so good as a defender, why you’re in the defensive player of the year conversation and all of these things. So it’s jarring to now see the book kind of flip and you get teams attacking you on that end of the floor.
even though you have the reputation of being able to hold up both in the paint and on the perimeter. It’s interesting and it’s also something that I want to see of what happens when Kevin Durant is on the floor, because you’re seven feet tall. You’re a guy with length. You’re a guy with great shooting capabilities. And I know Devin Booker definitely has more speed at this age of his career than KD, but I just think it’s an interesting concept. The other portion of this that we’ve
Continuously talked about is the rebounding aspect and I don’t just think the switch ability and the switching that the calves are doing is a Reason why they’re struggling in that area over the last couple of games one it’s because of the personnel on the other end of the floor but it’s also because Jared Allen and Evan Mobley have gotten caught over helping once again when it comes to closing out on defenders when Max screws Dean way Deandre Hunter arc
very close to their defender already and they’re like, okay, let me help because I’m already here and like go out just a little bit leaving Zubach or in this case, it would have been Mason Plumlee, but it’s going to be Nick Richards, right? All of these guys that are going to have better spacing to grab offensive rebounds because even for a sliver of space, that’s all it takes in the NBA, right, Chris? A sliver of space, you see an opportunity for you to get positioning. And we know that these guys
Chris (21:49.842)
Mm.
Ethan Sands (22:04.812)
aren’t gonna be passive. you’re gonna leave and go help? I’m not letting you back in here. You’re gonna get boxed out. Especially against these guys like Dubas, who you know they’re stronger than you. Unfortunately the case, Steven Adams, another example. You are going to be one-on-one with some of the strongest players on the interior. You cannot make the mistake of giving them even an idea.
Chris (22:23.326)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (22:31.842)
that they have an upper hand when you’re already at a disadvantage, especially when you talk about Evan Mobley who may be 40, 50 pounds less than these guys in the painted area. But I do want to get into the second duo of this core four because the shooting aspect of it is also important. If you’re not knocking down shots, then these situations on the defensive end become even more important. The Cavs in the month of March are shooting.
are shooting 46.2 % from the field which is the 19th ranked in the NBA and 34.5 % from 3-point range which is marked as 20th in the NBA. And Chris, we know this team to be the best 3-point shooting team over the course of the season, 2nd best field goal percentage over the course of the season, but in March, it’s been troublesome. And a main portion of this is because
their star player, Donovan Mitchell, has not been great. He’s shooting 20.3 % from 3-point range on 8.4 attempts and just 35.9 % from the field over this stretch of the month of March. Chris, I know Darius is also in this category of having a little bit of a slump, not to the status of Donovan Mitchell just yet, but he’s shooting 32.4 % from deep, 38.9 from the field. Not what you want.
from your two best offensive creators and guys that you rely on. Obviously in the fourth quarter they can do different things. They tap into a different mentality, a different level, but we’re talking about the overall arching of this team during March. When it comes to those two guys, what is the biggest area that you’re looking for improvement other than the ball just going through the hoop?
Chris (24:25.32)
Well, I’m so process oriented, Ethan, and I look at those things more so than results. And look, the shooting numbers for Darius and Donovan are not good enough. They both have to be better. But I’m looking at the kinds of shots that they’re getting, right? I’m looking at Donovan in the paint versus three point range. Can he still get to the rim? Can he still beat guys off the dribble? Is Darius still getting the same kinds of shots that he was getting at the beginning of the season?
Because sometimes if you get those same shots and you feel like the process is good, but the results aren’t there, then it just says you’re in a shooting funk. And those things happen throughout the course of an 82 game season. Remember last year when Donovan was showing signs of just being bothered by his knee. And like one of the most telling signs to me.
was a game against the Washington Wizards, I want to say. And I remember having a conversation with Donovan in the locker room after this game in the second half of the season against Washington. And I said, look, man, you did not take any shots in the paint. All of your shots were either at three point range or in the mid range.
And that showed me that you were having a hard time with your explosiveness. That showed me that you were having a hard time beating guys off the dribble. It’s not a situation where Washington was doing anything tricky on the defensive end of the floor to keep him out of those spots. It’s just, it was easier for him in the physical condition that he was in to take all those shots. Those were the best shots that he felt like his body would allow him to get. And that was a telltale sign.
So like if Donovan’s shot profile was so glaring that he was in that same kind of mode where he was settling for outside shots, where he was settling for three-pointers, where he wasn’t getting into the paint, where he wasn’t getting to the rim, where he wasn’t getting to the free throw line, then I think you could look at it and say, okay, like something physically is wrong with him or his groin issue is...
Chris (26:37.028)
more significant than he may be letting on or the team may be letting on. I would say from a physical standpoint, it was a positive thing that Donovan played in the back-to-back. If there was that level of concern about his groin, or if he felt like he needed more time for that groin issue, then he wouldn’t have played both games of the back-to-back against the Clippers and against the Kings.
So that to me was a positive about just how he was feeling physically. And if you look at his shock profile, like there isn’t anything alarming enough there that it just tells me this is a really, really bad stretch for him and he’s got to be better from an efficiency standpoint. He also has to be better from a decision-making standpoint.
When he has so much responsibility on the offensive end of the floor and he plays de facto point guard and he’s organizing the offense and the ball’s in his hands so much, his decision making, his passing, those things have to be better than certainly what they were against Sacramento for a majority of that game. And I just think it’s a situation where to me, it’s more of a slump, it’s more of a funk.
It’s more of a bad shooting stretch than there is something that points to other things going on. And Darius, Darius is worth watching just from a standpoint of, we’ve talked about this Ethan, he’s a little guy. And there has been a big workload on him and this kind of offense pushing the pace and.
all of the responsibility and all of the constant movement and stuff like that. Is Darius getting worn down toward the end of the season? You know, that’s something that I think we can continue to watch because one of the things that Kenny Atkinson has talked about and other players have talked about is, know, Darius’s habits are different this year than what they were in the past. And that means recovery, that means conditioning, that means strength and weight room and stuff like that. So
Chris (28:54.04)
He knew that that was an area that he needed to focus on coming into this season. But like, this was also, it’s been a long season. He’s played a lot of games to this point. He’s had a lot of responsibility. They play at a higher tempo. So it’s like, yes, he got his conditioning to a different level. Yes, he made that a point of emphasis, but
like for somebody like him, is it to the level that it needs to be to one, get through the grind of the regular season and be at his best when the playoffs roll around. It took Steph years to really master that and understand that, right? And I’m wondering, I’m just going to continue to watch it, just how much Darius can, how much,
Does it look like he might be starting to wear down a little bit?
Ethan Sands (29:55.31)
100%. And I think those are all areas that we need to keep an eye on, right? Because there’s so much going on in the games that we didn’t even talk about any of the rotation guys really today. We talked about them on the defensive end, but on the offensive end, the Cavs need them to step up as well. They cannot solely rely on the core four members because they’re not always going to be on the floor. One, two, that’s what this whole season’s been about. Empowering.
the guys around them to be able to have success in the playoffs. Not in the regular season, but the success that you’re having in the regular season to help you have success in the playoffs. Because that’s all that matters. That’s what Kenny Atkinson has talked about since his introductory press conference, Chris. I went back the other day just to like look and like command F how many times he said playoffs in that first. I think it was like around 10.
And he had just walked into the building after coming out from being in France with the national team. Right. And his mind was already, okay, I got to think four or five, six, seven months in advance to figure out what we have to do to be not only there, but at our peak form. And that entails everybody on the roster. That’s the first thing he said. Celebrate the depth of the roster.
Chris (31:11.23)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (31:19.854)
That’s the biggest thing that the Cavs have been able to do. But over the stretch, there have been lapses, slippages. And as Donovan Mitchell said after the game the other day, if you’re playing this good, if you’re 16 game win streak, 15 game win streak, 12 game win streak, all these things, you’re bound to have some kind of drop off. But how significant is that drop off? That’s why I was mentioning the field goal and three point percentages of this team, because you go from first
to 19th, yessss
next so I don’t fall off.
Chris (32:22.686)
I mean, I think it’s fair to point out these things that aren’t going well for the Cavs right now and discuss them because they’re not playing good basketball right now. Even during the tail end of that winning streak, know, Max Struce was saying it, Donovan Mitchell was saying it. They were all talking about like, hey, that wasn’t a great performance from us. We found a way to win, but that wasn’t a great performance. That wasn’t up to our standards. So this has been an extended stretch of not so great basketball or substandard.
compared to the standard that the Cavs have set for themselves throughout the course of this year. But I think the other thing that’s fair to point out is that, know, March basketball is not one that you read too much into, and it’s not always predictive of what’s going to happen when the playoffs roll around.
So you just have to be careful when it comes to overreacting to these kinds of stretches that these kinds of teams have or these kinds of players have. And you have to use the eye test and you have to use like a process based approach. And I think as long as that is, I’m not seeing too many things about the Cavs that tells me that they’re not getting quality three pointers.
I’m not seeing too many things with the Cavs saying that, you know, they’re getting end of clock three pointers that are coming, not in the flow of the offense. Are there moments like that? Of course, there’s always going to be moments like that when it comes to a 48 minute basketball game. You’re not going to be at your best for all 48 minutes, but for a majority, like the Cavs got really good shots against Orlando down the stretch a couple of games ago. They just didn’t make them.
Those things happen. You know, the Cavs executed offensively down the stretch against Sacramento. It’s just they allowed Sacramento to score on seven straight possessions. The Cavs were doing the things that they needed to do offensively. They were executing. They were getting quality shots. It’s just they couldn’t stop Sacramento at the other end. It was 14 to 12 in the final 444. So Sacramento was two points better than them.
Chris (34:36.068)
over the last five-ish minutes of the game. That doesn’t point to like offense looking terrible, offense not getting good shots, offense being out of the flow or out of rhythm or a team figuring things out from the Cavs standpoint. To me, like you have to be careful about those kinds of things and you always have to keep it.
in the proper perspective while at the same time pointing out flaws that you see, pointing out things that aren’t going so well. The other thing that I’ll point out is that, you know, that thing that is wrapped around Jared Allen’s hand is pretty bulky. And like there have been games since that injury that Jared has been great and Jared has been dominant, but
I’m going to continue to watch that and have conversations with various people about Jarrett playing through that, whether or not it’s a good thing, because they need Jarrett at a different kind of level going into the postseason because we know how impactful he can be. We know how dominant he can be.
And like I said, there have been really, really good games for him, you know, since that injury happened. So it’s not a situation where it’s like, that’s clearly affecting his play and he can’t be the same dominant force because of that thing wrapped around his finger. But it seems like it’s still kind of bothering him. And it seems like he’s still kind of tentative when it comes to battling for loose balls and getting in a crowd.
and stuff like that. that, I think, is also worth monitoring down the stretch of this season.
Ethan Sands (36:25.752)
Chris, wrote about that a little bit in my profile of Jared Allen this morning. And when it comes to Jared Allen, and I want to pick your brain about this, because I’m pretty adamant about this fact that Jared Allen believes his body is going to be able to withstand whatever it is that comes at him, right? And he made that statement himself ahead of last year’s first round playoff series. Then we know what happens. He get a
broke, cracked rib, pierced rib, is not able to play after game four of the playoffs and not even into the Eastern Conference semifinals. It feels like this season, Jared has been like, I’m going to show you that I am going to play. I am going to fight my way through things and I’m going to be there for my team because they need me. And there’s two sides to this coin, right? Great, Jared. We appreciate you being a consistent common factor for this team.
The other factor, we need you healthy and at your best for the playoffs. So if you need to take a day off, 82 is a great number as he calls it, but maybe you sit down for one game and get the rest that you need, play 81, and then you’ll be back and ready to go in the playoffs. What do you think about how last year’s narratives about Jared have impacted or are subconsciously weighing on him when it comes to this season?
Chris (37:54.334)
I just think we start here, Ethan. If the Cavs believed, and if Jarrett believed, and the medical staff believed that playing through this injury was going to be problematic, or he was at risk of further injury, or more significant injury, he would not be out there. 82 games be damned. He would not be out there. It’s an injury that the Cavs feel like he can play through. It’s an injury that Jarrett feels like he can play through.
It’s an injury that the calves feel like all signs and all of the signs says that he’s not going to injure it further or it’s not going to lead to something more significant. I’ll put it this way. Like if a guy had a calf injury, everybody knows what that could lead to and there are dangers of that, right? It could lead to the Achilles, the dreaded Achilles. So when you have a soft tissue injury,
hamstring, a calf injury, teams are going to be more careful. Like what’s the worst thing, the Cavs are looking at the situation saying what’s the worst thing that could happen if Jarrett continues to play and he takes another hard hit on the finger or whatever. And they believe that the answer is fine enough, they’re fine enough with the answer that he’s going to continue to keep playing. The other thing that I would say is,
What is one game off going to do for Jarrett, for his finger specifically? It could allow him a mental refresh. It could allow him to, you know, get his legs back.
And if you felt like Jarrett was kind of like sloggy out there and he didn’t have the same kind of energy and he was getting beat to loose balls because of effort and hustle and stuff like that, you could look at it say, okay, that guy’s worn down. That guy’s, you know, his body has taken a toll physically and we need to give him a night off or we need to give him three days off or whatever the case may be. But, but I think the injury that he has specifically is not one where
Chris (40:02.072)
one game off or two games off or three games off is all of sudden going to magically heal it and when he comes back from those three games off he’s not going to have to play with a wrap on his thing. I think it’s just an injury that’s going to take time to heal and it can heal while still playing the game of basketball and that’s how the Cavs are looking at it. But to your point
Do I also think that there is something there psychologically about the reputation that Jared has had? The kinds of criticism that have been thrown at him? Yeah, I mean, I do think that’s in the back of your mind. I don’t think it’s in the front of his mind. I don’t think it’s the reason why he’s playing through this injury, like I said, but I do think that it’s in the back of his mind somewhere.
And I don’t think he would be human if he didn’t have those kinds of thoughts.
Ethan Sands (41:07.34)
And I think we can both agree that Jared Allen might be the most human person on this team based on how he lives his lifestyle. That was mainly what I wrote about today is him being able to monitor or walk the line between life and obsession with basketball and how all of these things are not truly important to Jared is just a platform for him to continue to build his reputation and help around the communities that he’s in.
but also being able to play the game that he enjoys and he likes playing with his teammates and all these different things. But!
Chris (41:44.574)
Yeah, I mean, wants to play. Guys want to play! Like, you know what I mean? Like, I understand we’re in a situation in the NBA where load management is prominent and it’s about the big picture and teams are looking for opportunities to rest guys, but...
Ethan Sands (41:47.5)
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (42:03.036)
These guys want to play. Jarrett loves playing the game of basketball. He wants to be out there with his teammates. And it’s hard to fault a guy for having that kind of mentality, right?
Ethan Sands (42:16.654)
100%. 100%. You want guys that want to be out there. You want guys that like, aren’t necessarily out there for themselves, but are out there to make everybody else around them better. And that’s what Jared Allen is. Like the unselfishness of Jared Allen is his best quality, right? His superpower is making everybody else feel seen because he does not need the spotlight. He is allowing Evan Mobley to rise, all these things. But Chris, I want to wrap up today’s podcast.
with a couple of, because we’re not previewing the Phoenix Suns game entirely. I wanted to wrap up with end of season award tracker and where players are with their games played, because obviously we know that there is a 65 game minimum to be in these award conversations. Jared Allen has already surpassed the amount of games necessary. and also the other important factor in this,
Chris (42:52.029)
No.
Ethan Sands (43:14.702)
as I believe they also have to play 20 minutes per game. So that is an interesting feature that has been added recently as well. Jared Allen is in that category. He’s 69 games, 28.7 minutes per game. Ty Jerome, 64 games played, 19.7 minutes per game. So obviously we might see a couple of minutes extra given to Ty down the stretch to get him above that platform.
Darius Garland 64 games, 30.5 minutes per game. Donovan Mitchell 63 games, 31.4 minutes per game. Evan Mobley 61 games, 30.3 minutes per game. So we see these guys are on the cusp of being eligible. And as Chris says, we don’t want to ever put any bad thing into the air, but we have to wait until these guys actually get through that to be able to talk about the end of season awards. Obviously tonight’s game will put
Ty Jerome and Darius Garland through that necessary platform, the 65 games. Donovan needs two more games. Evan Mobley needs four more games. But I do think the biggest portion of this when it comes to the losing streak, win streak, as we talk about the Cavs are continuously working on their roles and their actions and principles rather than wins and losses. It’s the 67 win tracker, basically, Chris.
If they lose tonight, they’ll become 56 and 14 and there’ll be 12 more games left in the season. they would have to win 11 of those games for them to meet the standard of the 67 game or they get 10 and they tied the franchise record 66 wins. Something to keep in mind, something to keep an eye on a little bit fun for guys that want to get into the stats at the end of the podcast. Chris, anything you want to wrap up with when we talk about these things?
Chris (45:10.918)
No, I think the thing that I would say is there’s still almost a month left of NBA basketball and these things can fluctuate, especially when you feel like it’s a competitive race to begin with. The only one that was decided long ago is no longer decided. It was defensive player of the year. It was Wemby from the very beginning and he did nothing to lose that, right? So.
That was the one that was the most lopsided of all the races. The other ones were pretty even, right? There’s a legitimate debate between MVP, Jokic and Shea. There’s a legitimate debate now between six men of the year. There’s like five different guys that you could make a case for. There’s a legitimate debate with most improved player. I would say there’s a debate between coach of the year.
Kenny is the leader, he is the front runner, but what J.B. Biggerstaff has done for the Detroit Pistons is just outrageous. So there is still some things that need to be figured out and what happens here at the end of the season combined with what has already happened in the first five-ish months. It all is going to matter. And when you’re talking about close races to begin with, it’s the narrow margin.
And you need more and more data. You need more and more information. There’s more time for Draymond Green to continue to climb up the Defensive Player of the Year rankings. You know what mean? Like there’s more time for Ty Jerome to catch the perceived front runner and Peyton Pritchard for six men of the year. So when you have these close races to begin with, like they’re not decided 65 games into the year or 70 games of the year. It takes all 82.
So let’s continue to take a breath on these kinds of things and let more and more of the season play out before we make these sweeping declarations about who should win the award at the end of the year. You know why? Because the freaking year is still going on people. Like all this conversation, like these people on TV are having these conversations about like, my God, where’s this guy in the MVP conversation? Like the conversation hasn’t ended you dope.
Ethan Sands (47:17.358)
Good.
Chris (47:28.222)
Like it’s still going on. Because the season is still going on.
Ethan Sands (47:28.696)
Hahaha!
Ethan Sands (47:34.222)
I mean, absolutely right. And obviously people are going to ask me why I include Deandre Hunter into my list. So I will do that now. Deandre Hunter has played 37 games with the Atlanta Hawks this season, 16 games with the Cleveland Cavaliers, which makes him played 53 games this year, Chris. There’s 13 games left in the season. He needs to play 12 of them to be...
Eligible for six man of the year. So yes, of course There’s a month left and there’s a lot more games to be played But there’s definitely things we have to keep an eye on the minutes We don’t really have to worry about the Seandre when it comes to that He averaged 28.8 minutes with the Atlanta Hawks 25.1 minutes per game with the Cleveland Cavaliers in his short tenure with the team. So Chris as we wrap up
We are not doing an end of season podcast until we get closer to the end of the season, but.
Chris (48:37.884)
Closer Julian, thank you, yes.
Ethan Sands (48:41.56)
But we have to an eye on these things and keep people in mind when it comes to the streaks and all these things, especially as this Cleveland Cavaliers team has already had a historic season. We talked about all the records they’ve broken along the way, but there is one more record that they do have their eye on. It just might be a little tougher than the Cavs expected when they were on their 16 game win streak to get there. They were on pace for 70 games. Now it’s down to 68.
We’ll see what happens. But with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of The Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a CAS Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you’re gonna send in your questions for our next week’s Hey Chris episode. We had our most recent Hey Chris episode come out yesterday. So if you want a shout out on the podcast, if you want to hear your questions answered, all these things.
Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit Cleveland.com slash calves and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the calves from me, Chris and Jimmy.
This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast, and the only w ay to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.