CLEVELAND, Ohio — A new episode of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell is out, and this week, we open with the Guardians, as we go through the roster for opening day and pick four Guardians who might break out in 2025.
We also delve into the Browns, who’s left as they search for a veteran quarterback, and whether we think Colorado’s Shedeur Sanders fits them with the No. 2 pick in the 2025 NFL Draft.
We also discuss the Cavs, their rough stretch in March, and whether it matters.
Do you have any questions or comments for the podcast? Send your thoughts and questions in via email to us at sports@cleveland.com and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line, and we’ll try to feature it on an upcoming episode.
Terry on Wednesday night will be at the Walls of Books store at Parmatown Mall at 6 p.m. He’ll speak and sign books. It’s free.
Also, we are seeking your Cleveland opening day baseball memories; and if you have any memories of Frank Robinson’s debut as Cleveland’s manager 50 years ago next month. Send those stories to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin'” in the subject line. We’ll read some of the emails on upcoming podcasts.
Highlights:
Email us your opening day memories from years of Cleveland baseball gone by. We’d love to hear your stories at sports@cleveland.com. Just put “Terry’s Talkin' ” in the subject line;
Why Terry is concerned about the 2025 Guardians;
We break down the 25-man (soon to be 26-man) roster for opening day;
Was Monday night’s lineup a dress rehearsal for what we’ll see from the Guardians in Thursday’s opener at Kansas City?
And will the Jose Ramirez experiment at No. 2 in the batting order happen?
We each pick a pitcher and a position player we thing could break out in 2025;
The list of free-agent QBs available for the Browns is dwindling. We reset the field;
A listener email about whether Shedeur Sanders would fit the Browns;
The Cavs have not been good in March. Does it matter?
Terry discusses the passing of his “mom,” Melva Hardison, earlier this month at age 99, and about what grief can do to us;
And a listener email about Terry’s library appearances and whether they are recorded.
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.
If you have a question or a topic you’d like to see included on the podcast, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.
You can find previous podcasts below. The transcript below was generated by a computer, and as such it contains many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell (01:37.219)
Hey, welcome to this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. David Campbell, your host. Terry Pluto is joining me as he does every week. It’s baseball season, Terry. It’s pretty exciting, right? The Guardians are opening in two days. We’re taping this on Tuesday afternoon. All right.
Terry Pluto (01:47.436)
Yes it is, yes it is. All right, I’ve got something for you David just to start off. The Yankees led all spring training with 59 homers, so that’s not a surprise. But who was number two?
David Campbell (02:06.861)
I was gonna say the Dodgers, but was it the Guardians? There’s no way. Really? Huh.
Terry Pluto (02:09.612)
I yes, what’s 50? Count them, 50. I was looking up something else for my newsletter and that popped up and you know how you kind of, all right, I’m gonna put this thing in order, how many homers? And yes, Yankees 59, the Guardians 50, Guardians leading home run guys, Juan Brito and Elaine Thomas with four. Then here comes the group of threes.
which is Gabriel Arias, listen to these guys, Austin Hedges, Bo Neor, Manzardo, and Big Christmas.
David Campbell (02:49.217)
All right, well that’s a great stat. I had no idea and I’m guess most listeners.
Terry Pluto (02:50.958)
Yeah, me either. like, why? Like, I clicked on it twice, but so yes.
David Campbell (02:56.719)
All right, so why don’t we start with baseball today, since we’re kind of off on it and the Browns QB search continues. We’ll get into that. And I think Terry, since we’re starting with baseball, I just want to remind all of our listeners, we’ve gotten a few already, but send in some Cleveland baseball opening day memories, some stories, things you remember about opening days past, memorable plays, players, things that happened, funny things, anything you want to tell us about opening day memories you have.
send those into sports at cleveland.com put Terry’s talking in the subject line and we’re also trying to see if we can get some stories about Frank Robinson’s debut as Cleveland Indians manager was 50 years ago on April 8th which happens to be the date of this year’s home opener for the Guardians so sports at cleveland.com put Terry’s talking in the subject line I think we’re gonna have one more podcast next week before the home opener so we’ll try and get to some of those so all right Terry
Terry Pluto (03:41.134)
Hmm.
David Campbell (03:52.759)
I know you’ve been feeling a little bit uneasy about the Guardians going into season. We got an email a couple weeks ago from Dan Friedle. Dan was out at spring training. says, Hey guys, I listened to the podcast just now on my last day here in Arizona. Wanted to point out that Ortiz had to leave the game in the first inning because he couldn’t get anyone out. They put in a reliever to finish the inning and then he went out for the second and pitched better, but nothing thrilling.
Terry Pluto (03:56.297)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (04:18.093)
It’s worth noting that the Rangers have a deep lineup, but it’s not a promising appearance for a guy the guards are seemingly counting on. Also, the wind was blowing up to right at like 30 miles an hour. So while Brito hit a couple of balls, well, you should take the homer with a grain of salt. So Dan is kind of capturing that email. Some of the things you’ve been thinking too about the Gurgans. What are you most worried about, Terry?
Terry Pluto (04:27.072)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (04:36.899)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (04:40.302)
I think I saw that game because MLB had a couple of those on. Yeah, Ortiz was disturbing to say the least because it’s not as if he were hurt. He was thrown between 94 and 96. But a lot of his pitch, he throws sort of three quarter sidearm. It seemed like everything was up high. He does not have a complicated motion, Davis. It’s almost like...
David Campbell (04:45.753)
So around March 19th, I think was the date. Yeah, maybe early last week.
Terry Pluto (05:09.966)
classic out of the stretch, of, oh, so much like Carl’s Carrasco throws. And he just kept getting behind, getting behind. Now here’s a guy that walked only like 2.8 hitters per nine innings. Basically, if you’re walking three or less, that’s good. You have good control. And a few years ago, he like averaged five, but most prior to when he looked at his stats, control has not been a big problem. This way, spring he’s walking like seven or eight per nine innings.
behind. So that that is a concern. You know, you traded you being the guardian, you traded a stellar second baseman, perhaps the best defensive second baseman I’ve ever seen. And while he hasn’t hit as you would hoped when you gave him that contract, I mean, he still hit like 10 homers and around 250 and, he saves all kinds of runs and you’re counting on Ortiz to, you know, nail down that spot in the rotation. they
Basically they gave him the spot in the rotation because one they had to give it to somebody and Secondly, you know for the trade and coming the couple the other guys that were being looked at You know, Mackenzie was just as bad if not worse and They went with Cantillo in the bullpen So there really wasn’t many other options Logan Allen to me. I watched him on a game and
I was, this reminded me of the Logan Allen of 23 who came up from the miners and an ERA about 3.8, pounded the strike zone, looked very confident. And I Vought said he looked like a different guy because Vought wasn’t around back in 23 when he came up last year. I don’t know what was going on with him, but something was, but we’re, know, they can’t, David, they can’t just rely on this bullpen to be spectacular when you’re talking about.
their ERA as a team in the bullpen was 2.57. The next team in all major leagues was Milwaukee at 311. Or that, how about this stat? I found this in ESPN. You had your big four of Klaus A and Cade Smith and Gaddis and Heron. They had a combined 1.49 ERA. Of course Klaus A was 0.47.
David Campbell (07:18.019)
Huge, a huge difference there.
Terry Pluto (07:36.664)
Point being to expect that to come close to repeating with the heavy workload only to in the American league, only Detroit and Chicago starting pitchers, pitch fewer innings than the Cleveland’s did. So they’ve got to get more out of their starters. I mean, I know that’s why they went out and traded for Ortiz. It’s why they traded for Chikoni who pitched poorly early on, but actually I was glad to hear he had an oblique.
Injury not that I wanted the guy to be hurt but it’s like he was awful and Yeah, I mean it’s a ribcage thing think about throwing and that might explain it but he’s out till May at least and So there you are. So there that’s one of my things the unease of the rotation Combined with then the expectation of the bullpen being elite again
David Campbell (08:11.535)
Yeah, explain some of it. Yeah.
David Campbell (08:31.951)
All right, so why don’t we run through the roster real quick now that it’s set and then maybe we can talk about some things that we think might happen, things that might happen, might not happen. So, So the starting rotation, Tanner Bybee, Gavin Williams, you mentioned Ortiz already, Ben Lively and Logan Allen. Those are the five starters. The bullpen is eight players right now. It’s, Yeah, go ahead.
Terry Pluto (08:34.487)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (08:38.774)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (08:51.924)
Okay, let’s talk about the rotation. so you have Gavin looks great. I mean, I’ve seen him twice on TV. He looks great. You know, I was not able to go out to Goodyear this year, second year in a row. My mom Melville Hardison passed away. Where is we’re getting ready to go. I wrote about that and the year before poor Melville, she had her stroke right this way. We getting ready to leave. And, and so that was, that was tough. any, so I’m a little bit relying on
You know, I have some, talked to Chris Antinetti, I’ve talked to Tom Hamilton and some others for background stuff to help me as I was trying to get a handle on the team. But Gavin, and the nice thing, MLB TV did throw some of their games on TV, so I was able to tape them and watch them. Gavin looked terrific. Tanner Bybee made an excellent career move. know, anybody that listens to us.
We pound away. If you’re a starting pitcher, if you’re an agent with the starting pitcher, they want to throw some kind of money at you. Sign. Don’t let them off the phone or whatever it is you’re doing. Take that contract. Give them a year of free agency. Who cares? know, 30 is now up to 36 % from 33 % is up to 36 % of the MLB pitchers have had Tommy John. Wall Street Journal in his story.
says since the year 2010. So it’s 15 years. That’s why they did it there. Tommy John surgery’s in the majors and minors are up 170%. Nowhere’s I don’t. Yeah. It’s just, it’s endemic everywhere. You Garrett Cole grabs his, his elbow. He’s done. Carlos Carrasco makes the Yankees. So you, and this is not wishing Tyler Tanner to have a elbow injury.
David Campbell (10:27.791)
True, man.
Terry Pluto (10:45.538)
But just the fact is you have to be smart about this. And he was smart about this. And meanwhile, you’re the guardians. It’s a good contract to have too, because frankly, even if he has it, you’re likely to be able to keep him and rehab him and hope he comes back. So you’re good with Bobby. You’re good with Williams. Ben Lively looks like the kind of guys that a lot of us watch when we were younger. He works the corners. He doesn’t throw that hard. I love this.
This phrase I are pitched to contact. I don’t know what that means. You don’t have to pitch to contact that’s batting practice. So this is 90 year old coach during the ball down the middle or whatever. Yeah. It is democratic. Right. It’s exactly right. But you know, he looks like he’s going to be fine. Then you’re into Ortiz. We’re very worried about, and then we’re very hopeful on Allen. So that’s, that’s it. And then if you need extra starters.
David Campbell (11:25.357)
No, it’s the old line from Bull Durham. Get round balls, it’s democratic, right?
Terry Pluto (11:45.26)
You know, Nick Hayes, had a really good spring till his last outing, then he got bombed. and then, Cantillo. I don’t know. How do you feel about Cantillo?
David Campbell (11:55.471)
think you got some good experience last year. Let me run through the bullpen just so we know who we’re talking about here in the bullpen. So it’s class A, Hunter Gaddis, Tim Herron, Cade Smith, Paul Seewald, Jacob Junas, Tristan McKenzie, and Cantillo. some guys, like the way that Stephen Vogt has phrased it. We gave ourselves some tough decisions to make this year, which in terms of not only who the starting pitchers were going to be, but who’s going to make the bullpen, who’s going to go down to triple A. It seems like they had to make
Terry Pluto (11:57.069)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (12:07.64)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (12:17.88)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
David Campbell (12:24.953)
some tough decisions, which was not always the case last year. It’s like, who do we have? Who’s healthy and can throw three innings, right? So at least they’ve given themselves backups to their contingencies.
Terry Pluto (12:33.656)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (12:39.074)
And the good thing is this, like had Logan Allen been terrible again, then you would almost be like giving two guys starting spots Ortiz and McKenzie just because you got nobody else you really want to try at this point. so right now I would say there’s only one, what I would call an ascaras starter, but at least Ortiz was good last year. know, Tristan McKenzie has not been good since what 22, I think it is or whatever it is. It goes a while back.
David Campbell (12:52.428)
Right.
Terry Pluto (13:09.39)
And you know, as you said, Contello, you know, maybe he’s got a pretty good arm. But the question will be, I think the bullpen will still be really good if you don’t overwork it.
David Campbell (13:23.159)
Right. Yeah, last year, you know, if have a player who’s been in the majors for 10 years and he bats 250, you can pretty much bank on him batting 250. But the bullpen last year to your point, Terry, was historically good. And you cannot rely on that. I think that’s... And they know that too. They knew that after last season and coming into this. So, all right, two catchers. good. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (13:30.209)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (13:34.176)
Mm-hmm and incredibly young
Terry Pluto (13:42.574)
I’m gonna say, no, before you go there, I don’t think it’s going to be a problem, but I want Klausse to come out and save some games early and look like Klausse, because he got knocked around in the playoffs, and I’m not sure why. It was clear his stuff had flattened out, even though the velocity hadn’t dropped a lot. Now that could just be from overwork and everything else, but when you’re a closer,
David Campbell (14:08.351)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (14:12.598)
And Clausay is one the toughest minded guys I may add I’ve seen in that job here in Cleveland. Another guy, you know, who was really tough minded, although he, you he didn’t have Clausay’s ability. Cody Allen was tough minded too. You know, he could handle the blow and saves well. And he was the all time winning save guy till Clausay. So let’s just see how he is. Let’s hope he gets off to a good start, saves a couple of games early and feels like Clausay. Cause remember the year before he led the league.
In 23, he the league in saves and blowing saves. It’s really hard to do that because if you blow enough saves, they won’t give you a chance to keep saving games. But one of the things is Tito Redclaw say that he wasn’t falling apart mentally.
So he stayed with them. Still what? Yeah.
David Campbell (14:58.915)
Yeah, still wanted the ball, still went out there. It’s like the, couple of years ago, was like the Jamis Winston stat for the league and interceptions and touchdown passes.
Terry Pluto (15:05.226)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just I’ll say one thing. He can’t, he was never shy. He can throw two picks. You know, just call my number again. This one, we’re going to get this one in there. So that’s just something to keep an eye on. you know, Seawald is a guy that could help them. There’s Jacob Junas. I don’t know very much about other than you could look up at his numbers. the pitching, the pitching still gotta be really good. You know, in the end.
David Campbell (15:13.869)
That’s true.
Terry Pluto (15:34.892)
The Guardian’s Rise, and I’m right about this at length in my newsletter, that’s going to come out tomorrow. The Guardian’s Rise began with the combination of Francona joining the front office with Antinetti and Chernoff. And it was fueled by pitching. And it reminded me, I’m reading by the way, the last manager by John Miller, story, Earl Weaver’s biography. And I could tell you it’s terrific. And remember I.
David Campbell (16:01.515)
yeah.
Terry Pluto (16:02.306)
I’ve even, I wrote a book with Earl called Earl Weaver on Strategy and I wrote, he had a nice comment about the first good bio on Earl was one I wrote a long, long time ago called The Earl of Baltimore. But he goes on far more depth. But as I’m reading that, I’m thinking the guardians in some ways reflect those.
those teens in Baltimore, they were fueled by pitching. You know, we were always talking pitching defense and later on three run homers. and that’s really what’s that. in the 12 years of a Francona plus one of vote, you’ve got two losing seasons and you got, you know, seven, seven playoffs and so on. Basically they’ve never been bad. Yeah. By bad, I define 90 losses. It’s just like,
I have a Weaver’s things incredible. It’s like he had a, think it’s 15 years stretch. They went to one 90 games, 11 times, you know, no losing seasons. And they went through, you know, they didn’t spend a lot of money in those days. mean, they, Reggie Jackson, Don Baylor, Bobby Grish, these guys passed through there and went somewhere else. And they just kept finding players and they, and you know, Hank Peters was the GM there and he came here and put later on, put John Hart and,
David Campbell (17:18.797)
Homegrown, homegrown talent.
Terry Pluto (17:28.674)
Dan O’Dowd into place and also Mark Shapiro. And so in some ways that, that spirit was there, but those teams in nineties were built with bats. This team is built with arms. And so we’ll see, but that’s why I’m dwelling a lot on the pitching, even though I know they were second in all MLB and home runs this spring. And you know, basically if you want to put it, think Austin Hitch, this is 27. If you actually factor it out compared to the three home runs, the end spring training, are you counting on that?
David Campbell (17:54.071)
All right, didn’t want to mention that the the book Full title of it is the last manager how Earl Weaver tricked tormented and reinvented baseball mark civic one of our listeners Mentioned it last week and kind of got us going on and did you read the part where you’re mentioned in there Terry? Yeah
Terry Pluto (18:08.76)
Couple times. Yeah, it’s nice. It’s real nice and and because I said I wonder if he heard the podcast because I said well Look a guy interviewed me a couple times you could at least send me a free copy and like the next day I got a text saying what’s your home address? I want to you to have a cop somebody got to him. Maybe mark did but so that was nice All right. So anyway, but but but this is an important thing. See the the guardians do have a way they play and that is what
David Campbell (18:22.367)
All right, sorry catchers.
Terry Pluto (18:38.304)
I think has happened here with all this and vote, you know, was able to continue it, but your battle with how to handle your arms is going to be the, even though we’ll be frustrated at times when they’re not hitting, I think the big thing will be how are they handling the pitching?
David Campbell (18:57.559)
Alright, so the two catchers who will be handling the pitchers, Bo Nailer, Austin Hedges, infielders, there’s six of them, Carlos Santana, Kyle Manzardo, Gabriel Arias, Jose Ramirez, Brian Rocchio, Daniel Schneeman, and four outfielders, Stephen Kwan, Lane Thomas, John Kenzie-Noel, Nolan Jones. It looks like Juan Brito or Angel Martinez might get the 26th spot. I think they’re still waiting on that.
Terry Pluto (19:21.122)
Although there is this weird thing where they have they asked Jonathan Rodriguez to come back to Big League Canem.
David Campbell (19:26.806)
I did not see that.
Terry Pluto (19:28.422)
Yeah, I’m not sure what that means. He may be just filling in for somebody or something. He’s an outfielder. My guess is Breed... Well, of course, I could guess and be totally wrong. What I had heard earlier is they wanted Breedow just to go down and play every day at second base. They saw no reason to... When Arias won the job, just let Breedow play and see how that goes.
David Campbell (19:30.509)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (19:55.818)
Martinez can play several positions and so he seems to be a possibility. Schneemann plays all these positions. the big thing there will be who’s gonna bat behind Jose? you could, yeah, go ahead.
David Campbell (20:13.871)
So let’s talk about that. wanted to ask you, Terry. So last night, the guardians, they’re playing two games against Arizona at Arizona’s ballpark, right? To get ready for the Thursday opener in Kansas city. But last night’s lineup was this. All right. And I’m wondering, they’re going to be facing Regans on Thursday, lefty. This is the lineup the guardians used last night. I’m wondering if this is what we’re going to see on Thursday. It was Quan Ramirez, Lane Thomas, Santana, Big Christmas, Manzardo, Arias, Bone Nailer.
Terry Pluto (20:22.655)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (20:30.047)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (20:43.567)
Brian Roquio. Do you think that’s what we might see in the opener? That seemed like they might have been doing a dress rehearsal there. I don’t know. And how would you feel about Jose at number two? I know we talked about this a little last week. Does this seem like a good way to start the season?
Terry Pluto (20:51.725)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (20:57.622)
Okay, if you want to talk about against left handed pitching, Lane Thomas crushes it and so does Jose, excuse me, so does Carlos Santana. He was very good from the right side of the plate. So big Christmas, yeah, he hits it also. And Manzardo, even though sometimes in the minor it’s the splits haven’t been as good as you would think, I just, you know, I’ve loved Manzardo since the trade.
David Campbell (21:11.331)
and then big Christmas after those two.
Terry Pluto (21:26.414)
I remember when it was made, fans were upset. I’m like, I’m Aaron Savali for that guy anytime, anywhere. At that point, Savali had been on the injured list five times in two and a half years. Manzardo is a polished hitter with a nice track record and he’s going to hit. Tom Hamilton and I were talking about this, like, well, what time a hitter? And it’s like, unfortunately,
Some people think, that means he’s got to hit 30 home runs and everything. No, what if he’s like a 20, 20 home or 35 double guy, you know, hits around two 80 drives in 80 runs. That’s a hitter. And, know, we saw signs of that when he came back after going back to the miners and then also in the playoffs. So I feel pretty good. Now the problem is when the right-hander pitches.
David Campbell (22:19.759)
which will be a whole other lineup.
Terry Pluto (22:21.45)
Yeah, so what you will have Nolan Jones will be in there for big Christmas. lane Thomas, you’ll probably drop in the order. and so basically the two guys that are protecting Jose right now are much better against lefties than righty. So that will be, who do you put where? Cause you’ll be probably still playing those guys. mean, do you throw?
Nolan Jones up into that, but really Nolan Jones, you know, he, he had back problems last year. Even the spring, I went to like two 32 and he didn’t hit a homer for, for Colorado.
David Campbell (23:07.299)
Yeah, it’s a big question. So anyway, I think we’ll see pretty early. I think the two things are, what’s the lefty versus righty lineup going to be? also, will the Jose at number two experiment continue?
Terry Pluto (23:10.697)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (23:19.276)
Now the nice thing about having Jose at number two is Kwan’s number one and Kwan reaches bass at a very high level. Generally it’s singles. So therefore, do you really want to walk Jose and move Kwan to second bass? Now.
I wouldn’t mind doing that anyway if the guy behind Jose isn’t hitting, but it really goes against conventional wisdom.
So that’s what we have to see. in my mind, the big issues are, the starters chew up enough innings so the bullpen doesn’t get overworked? And then just the continuing things of trying to find ways to create more runs. Because you’re not only trying to replace Naylor, who we guess Naylor fell apart towards the end of season, but it’s still 30 and 100. You’re also.
going to, I think, miss the bat of Jimenez as second base unless Arias finally proves that he could play. Or unless you end up going down and getting Brito or somebody else. I think one of the things they assumed when they made the trade, and they could be right, that they will get more offense out of second base with whoever settles in there to make up for the lack of defense. But I’m telling you, we’re gonna be watching these games.
Terry Pluto (25:39.118)
And we’re going to go, how do they not turn that double play? How do they not get that ball? mean, those balls that would be hit up the middle and you would see areas, I mean, Jimenez go down and he’s like a cat where he could drop a cat from 12 feet in the air and he flips over and when it comes right up on his feet. I mean, he would do that. And I have the other thing I’ve nobody’s I’ve never seen anybody better at. And I’m very serious is the relay throws from the outfield.
He was one that he would go out there and he would catch that ball because he has a shortstop’s arm and he would just fire that thing. And yes, everything about the guy. and that’s why that, you know, but Ortiz better pitch cause there’s a big hole created by that.
David Campbell (26:08.041)
yeah.
David Campbell (26:15.255)
And the transition too from catch to throw is so fast. Yep.
David Campbell (26:28.547)
All right, well, you know, when I was in college, I covered the Illinois track team one year and going into the Big Ten meet one year, one of their best athletes got hurt and I asked the coach, how are you going to replace this guy? And he said, we’re not going to replace it with one guy. It’s got to be everybody. So, so without Naylor in the lineup offensively, why don’t we talk about who, which hitter you think could be the biggest pleasant surprise for the guardians. And then I’ll give you mine. But like,
Terry Pluto (26:45.068)
Yeah.
David Campbell (26:57.519)
They gotta get a little bit more out of everybody to equal some of this offensive production. Who are you thinking could be a pleasant surprise?
Terry Pluto (26:59.77)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Terry Pluto (27:04.238)
Alright, it probably is going to be wishful thinking but I will Say it anyway Bo Naylor and the reason being He is a guy that in the past in the minors and I know you know, we could turn around and counter Yeah, Tyler Freeman was a 300 hitter in the minors for his career. And so was Miles straw. So
David Campbell (27:16.376)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (27:33.646)
As I say this, know how that doesn’t sound all that great, but this is a guy who, you know, in AAA, his last two years, he had 500 at bats in AAA over two years. He hit 28 homers. He had 26 doubles. And he drove in 95 runs. I mean, it’s, in other words, it’s in him to show some power.
And I would even with Cleveland, he’s showing some and he is going to be, he’s only 25. And so I’m hoping because otherwise, yeah, I mean, in other words, he has shown it in the past. He’s shown a little bit of power up here, but he could be a guy that has two 35 and 20 homers, but that would be great to put that in the lineup.
David Campbell (28:14.57)
That’s a good pick.
David Campbell (28:28.631)
Okay. So my guy, and this will make Roberta happy since she was the early scout who saw Stephen Kwan. I’m going to say Stephen Kwan. And I know that he kind of was up in the upper three hundreds with his batting average last year, but I think, he’s going, this is his last year. He’s got two years of arbitration, I think, after this season. And he wants to go into arbitration with some power numbers to back up his value to the team. I think he’s been working.
Terry Pluto (28:33.975)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (28:48.588)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (28:57.857)
He looks stronger to me. It’s spring training, but his slugging percentage in spring training was 500, which is, and I think last year during the regular season, his, his slugging percentage was 425, which was a career high. But I think he, we’re going to see more power from him. And again, not necessarily home runs, but more doubles. And I think he’s going to have another career high and slugging percentage this season. I think he’s going to surpass the 14 homers and the 44 RBIs.
Terry Pluto (29:04.322)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (29:10.477)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (29:26.239)
he got married this off season, right? I just think he’s in a good place mentally. And I think he’s maybe built up his body a little bit so that he can be a little bit more of a, of a hit in the gaps with some power, getting some more doubles and getting that slugging percentage up a little bit. So that’s my prediction. There you go. For what it’s worth.
Terry Pluto (29:43.318)
Okay, he got, the guardian should go to him. Steven, since you got married, don’t you want some security as we’re all talking about this contract?
David Campbell (29:49.743)
Well, you know, a lot of times, Terry, we’ve seen guys here and elsewhere where their personal lives are like, you’re not sure what’s going on and their mechanics fall apart and their heads not there. Like, I just think Stephen Kwan is in a really good place right now. I don’t have anything to base this on other than I just, you know, I saw some of his interviews during the postseason last year when we were down at the games. I just think he just feels like he’s in the right spot right now and he’s ready to set the stage for a
Terry Pluto (30:00.394)
Yes, absolutely. No, I’m with you.
David Campbell (30:18.831)
some bigger contracts coming down the road.
Terry Pluto (30:20.91)
Well, at the middle of last year, I did write a column and I kind of tracked him compared to Michael Brantley. And they were starting to go in the same direction. You know, where Brantley became an 18 to 22 homer guy, a lot of doubles and left fielder. Steven’s a better left fielder than Michael and just quality guy, leader, all that stuff. So I think that’s reasonable. And the fact he hit what he hit 14 last year or so.
David Campbell (30:27.608)
Right.
David Campbell (30:50.979)
Yeah, 14 homers, I think 44 are ribbies. Yep.
Terry Pluto (30:51.246)
I mean, yeah, I mean, he could, he could hit 20 homers. That’s a possibility. And that would see, that’s what they’re counting on. They’re counting on, you know, we’re talking about.
Lane Thomas, and we’re talking about, you know, Carlos, but they’re internally, they’re putting their bets on bone or hitting more. They’re putting their bets on Rokeo, picking up where he did in September and, and Manzardo and Quan, you know, in other words, they always talk about it. Chris always, when I talked to him, talked to he talks about internal improvement. and that’s what they are counting on.
And so we’ll see, not all of them will, but they think some will. And then, you know, there’s big Christmas. We’ll see what he does. Will he, the good thing is in his last two weeks where he was, have been just terrible early on in spring training, uh, he’s really started to hit and you know, the power obviously is there. he was 12 for 27 and his last whatever.
10 games down there or whatnot. I don’t like this stat. It’s 56 at bats in the spring. He struck out 19 times and hasn’t walked. that’s a, that’s a bit of a problem, but if he can just, you know, control the strike zone a little bit, you know, the thing that’s nice about Christmas is he’s a, he’s turned into an above average right fielder. That was a shock when he came up. He’s got a great arm and it covers a lot of ground. Remember.
This team has to play, you know, I would say a minus defense that also comes with it. and they, they really need to do that. And by the way, they will get now, now one of the things when they talk internally, I thought Josh nailer was underrated in terms of his ability to dig throws out of the dirt. He was good at that. the rest of first base was not very good at all range or that kind of stuff where Carlos.
Terry Pluto (33:02.606)
Somehow at the age of 38, he won his gold glove and he, always just kept getting better and better. Now I had another person close to the team tell me that they had good leadership last year, but they think it’s better because really it, was Jose and it was hedges last year. Well, now it’s Carlos is in like the big three of keeping the clubhouse in order. You know, it’s another one there.
They’re trying to have Bieber develop into kind of how Corey Kluber was who passed the mantle to Bieber, excuse me. And Bybee is what I meant to say. And Bybee then follows in that direction. Because it’s a guy, it’s like when Tito told me, like when a pitcher would come up or whatever, he would say, you see what Kluber’s doing? Do that.
David Campbell (33:55.908)
Yep.
Terry Pluto (33:56.238)
And Carlos Carrasco told me early on, said, we were talking about that and early on he goes, well, I just started hanging around Kluber and doing what he does. And I said, it’s a Tito said to do that. And, and you know, this stuff sounds kind of elementary, but you could talk, talk about your kids who has more influence sometimes, especially after you in the teenage years or whatever it’s who they hang around with.
David Campbell (34:20.079)
Definitely, yeah. You need a guy who can be like, is how we warm up, this is how we stretch, this is how we eat.
Terry Pluto (34:21.334)
And it’s also like if.
Terry Pluto (34:26.302)
Right. And the flip side is if some guy’s a really good player, but he’s out partying and every all night and he’s getting out of shape and all this stuff. you don’t want him hanging around. I mean, Fran Neil Reyes was a classic of this guy literally ate and you know, himself right out of the big leagues. Go on.
David Campbell (34:46.713)
All right, so that was our biggest pleasant surprise predictions for the lineup, the non-pitchers. Who’s your biggest pleasant surprise you think might break out this year for the pitchers? Yeah.
Terry Pluto (35:00.172)
The pitchers, I’m going to, Logan Allen’s my guy. I’m staying with that. I liked him two years ago. He was bad last year. I like him again. And I also, you know, it’s the classic stat that I pound away at 85 % of all players go back to the miners at least once. And it often does serve them well.
David Campbell (35:25.487)
All right, I’m gonna go with Gavin Williams. I think he’s he’s lost 15, 17 pounds. He’s changed his delivery. He worked with Carl Willis during the off season. just think he’s, I think he could be a real workhorse if he stays healthy.
Terry Pluto (35:28.226)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (35:36.876)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (35:40.77)
Boy, I hope they took the balls away from him. I don’t mean I’m sorry. I’m not being sarcastic on this. I’m tired of this stuff. These guys getting hurt with these, ways of trying to, you know, add velocity and that through things that are clearly straining arms. It’s not only the radar gun. And as my big evil thing to spin, right. It also has some of these training techniques and
David Campbell (35:45.104)
I know, I know.
Terry Pluto (36:10.19)
Throw a regular baseball.
David Campbell (36:13.295)
It was good enough for Bob Feller is the old thing.
Terry Pluto (36:14.918)
But that’s what Bob would say. Yeah, you know, you know what you want to do? You want to get your arm stronger when you rest two days and you throw batting practice for a day, then you rest another day, then you start like, okay.
David Campbell (36:25.071)
All right, so the season opener anything else on the guardians I was just gonna run through the upcoming schedule here just to reset it a little bit
Terry Pluto (36:33.522)
No, I think that’s it other than I just love I love this time of year I mean think about this is a great time of year for sports. So you got the Guardians opening the playoffs looming for the Cavs and of course the never-ending draft
David Campbell (36:46.767)
Okay, so the Guardians do open Thursday at Kansas City. Then they have an off day on Friday in case of rain and then Saturday, Sunday in Kansas City. I don’t know why they had them open in Kansas City. It makes zero sense to me. The forecast for Sunday is 38 and raining in Kansas City. So we’ll see if that one gets played. But then they go out to say to California for three games against the Padres, three against the Angels. Yeah, they should have just had them play in an indoors.
Terry Pluto (37:10.434)
That’s probably why.
Yeah. Well, here’s the right. And here’s the thing that makes it even your point even stronger. David is in the past when they played, was it 70 games or whatever within the division, you sometimes you just had to do it because how are you going to get 40 % of your schedule in with Kansas city, Detroit, Chicago, et cetera. But with this, where I think it’s 50 some games, you have more options. know, mean, heck you could, you could have gone.
David Campbell (37:14.307)
park or something, but anyway, is what it is.
David Campbell (37:28.77)
Right.
Terry Pluto (37:42.562)
You know, could have employed the Dodgers or whoever it was, you know, the Dodgers, you know, they don’t need a good opponent to pack their house. They could play anybody and I’m good by, I’m, good by good. mean, somebody that, you know, you would bring their casual fan and the casual fans not getting in. By the way, Tom Hamilton says something interesting. said he didn’t know if it was going to happen. this spot, the Dodgers, but he said that he was talking to, top MLB official, you know, right now, when you go to Arizona.
David Campbell (37:50.969)
they sell out everything, yeah.
Terry Pluto (38:14.134)
Arizona was very smart the different towns they’ve they had a of public financing for these these spring training things So like the in Goodyear the Reds and Guardians shared a main ballpark For their games. So in other words, there’s always a game in there and spring training one of the other and then they both have their own You know training facility right I think it’s Camelback Rancher doesn’t matter but it’s one of those other places the Dodgers sell it share it with the white Sox. Well the Dodgers
David Campbell (38:33.999)
facility.
Terry Pluto (38:43.586)
think that they could go and build a 20 to 25,000 seat stadium on their own up there and have their own, you know, palace of all and make more money. So we’ll see if that happens, but that would be kind of breaking out of the thing they had set up and see that’s also what hurt like winter Haven and these other places is Arizona decided to go all in on bringing teens out to Arizona.
by not only giving them nice facilities, but coming up with this idea of two for one. And you’ll get two teams in one town, one stadium.
David Campbell (39:23.631)
Man, the Dodgers would fill that place every day. They’ve got a huge fan base.
Terry Pluto (39:25.74)
Yeah, that’s exactly. Yeah. And I’m listening to that. And Hamilton said, he goes, I’m thinking, well, I’m not, goes, I’m not saying this is going to happen or whatever, but it is being talked about. And you go like, you know, actually his favorite line, he said, came up with this. goes, I can’t tell you where I heard it. It was Barney selling grapefruit in the desert. I don’t know what that means. That means I’m not telling you. I don’t even think they have grapefruit in the desert in Arizona, but
Well, anyway, Barney and the great with the Grapefruit in the Arizona said he heard the Dodgers are going to build their own palace.
David Campbell (39:57.999)
Wow, all right. Some insider information there. that’s right. The man with the grapefruit. So all right, we’re going to take a break, Terry. When we come back, we are going to pick a quarterback for the Browns. But we do that. A veteran quarterback. And we’ll talk a little bit of draft and whether Shadoor Sanders is a good fit. Sound good? We’ll get into the head and more when we return. Terry’s talking.
All right, we’re back on Terry’s talking. Take a couple things, Terry. Your newsletter, which you mentioned, I think you’re going to unveil your Guardian Season prediction. Now you’ve been thinking a lot about it, but that’ll be in the newsletter tomorrow. It’ll come out, it comes out at noon every Wednesday. If you go to cleveland.com slash Pluto, sign up. You click on the blue bar at the top of that page. You can sign up for the newsletter. You get two free weeks chock full of insights, predictions, contract stuff that you won’t find on cleveland.com and
Terry Pluto (41:28.526)
And if you’re a subscriber already, you get it for free. If you sign up, I got to do a sign up for it, right?
David Campbell (41:32.591)
Yeah, yeah, if you’re a subscriber to cleveland.com and the Plain Dealer, you get it for free already.
Terry Pluto (41:35.406)
Cause I’ve run into some people with subscribers and are asking me and I said, you could just get it. Yeah.
David Campbell (41:39.107)
Yeah, you just get it as part of the deal. And then we’re taping this on Tuesday the 25th of March and tomorrow you’re going to be at Walls of Books in Parmiton Mall, right?
Terry Pluto (41:47.778)
Paramount Town 6 p.m. Yup. Been there before, down the street from where I grew up, Webster Drive, and come on out. They usually have a pretty good crowd and sometimes they do run out of chairs. So the good thing is, it’s free.
David Campbell (42:04.141)
All right, so get out there. You can see Terry and get some things signed and support the local bookstore, which is always a great idea. So, all right, let’s talk Browns, Terry. You want me to run down the list of quarterbacks? of no chairs left. Okay, so Sam Darnold Seahawks, Justin Fields Jets, Daniel Jones to the Colts, Jimmy Garoppolo to the Rams, Zach Wilson Dolphins, Josh Dobbs Patriots.
Terry Pluto (42:15.532)
Yeah, get to get who’s who? Yeah, who’s looking and what teams are still looking go?
David Campbell (42:34.063)
Jared Stidham, Broncos, Nick Mullins to the Jaguars, Mack Jones to the 49ers, Gardner Minshew to the Chiefs, Jacoby Brissette to the Cardinals, which I think we talked about last week, Marcus, yeah.
Terry Pluto (42:45.038)
Two-year contract, how about that for Jacobi? I think it’s like five million of the eight million guaranteed.
David Campbell (42:50.339)
Yeah. Marcus Mariota to the commanders one year, 8 million Cooper rush to the Ravens for two years up to 12 million, 12.2 million. And Jamis Winston to the giants was, yeah.
Terry Pluto (42:52.75)
Cheers.
Terry Pluto (43:02.85)
You got a two year, you got like a two year 15 or something, 8 million guaranteed or something like
David Campbell (43:09.965)
Yeah, I have to share this. This ran across my timeline on the Twitter machine, but Timo Risky from Pro Football Focus, he tweeted out, Travis Hunter is the perfect fit for the Giants now in the draft because he can play wide receiver on Jamis’s good passes and cornerback on Jamis’s bad passes. I thought that was pretty good. That’s right. All right, so for the Browns.
Terry Pluto (43:26.552)
Hahaha!
He can catch them both, you know, it’s just.
David Campbell (43:35.193)
Kenny Pickett is in the fold already, but still out there is Aaron Rodgers. Everybody’s waiting for the shoe to drop on that. Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Drew Locke, Carson Wentz, Mary Kay Cabot, our colleague, has been reporting that there’s mutual interest. And then Trey Lance is still on the list, but I’ve been seeing that he might be headed to the Canadian league or something, he’s kind of not in high demand. So that’s where it stands, Terry. How do you feel about all that?
Terry Pluto (44:01.518)
The amazing thing, by the way, about Lance is I forgot how many first round picks the 49ers gave up for him. And total bust and. Go ahead.
David Campbell (44:07.203)
my gosh. yeah. well, was, I’ll never forget this. You think that these guys, study the draft the whole year and they’re, they’re super into it and they don’t leave any stone unturned. I remember when Lynch, the GM and Shanahan were getting, they were talking at the draft. They were watching film one night in the middle of January and they called each other at two in the morning. They were both watching Trey Lance film and they’re like, can you believe what we’re seeing? We got to get this guy and
Then they made all these moves to get him and what a great thing it was for the 49ers. Now he’s like a bust. It’s like these guys are supposed to be experts at what they do and they still missed on a huge, huge draft pick with Trey Lance. It’s just amazing.
Terry Pluto (44:48.238)
mean, it’s a great thing you could get credit for taking Brock Purdy at end of the draft, but you’re also the genius who traded like two or three number ones for Trey Lance. Yeah.
David Campbell (44:57.507)
Yeah. it’s incredible. It just goes to show you even these people that apparently know what they’re doing, don’t know what they’re doing sometimes. So anyway, I just wanted to share that real quick because I will never forget that.
Terry Pluto (45:06.03)
All right, all right, we’re gonna throw Aaron Rodgers out of the equation here. You’re Andrew Barry. You could have Wentz, you could have Joe, you could have Russell, you could have, who would you say, Locke. All right, in order, how would you rank them?
David Campbell (45:15.279)
Alright.
David Campbell (45:27.107)
Good luck.
David Campbell (45:32.907)
I would go Flacco, Wilson, Locke, and Wentz. What would you do?
Terry Pluto (45:40.782)
boy, that sounds almost like me.
I would take Russ, but my problem is if I’m drafting a quarterback high, I’m not sure Russ is gonna be a great guy for that. Wilson, not, I got some doubts on that. So I probably would go, know, Flacco, Wentz, Locke, I mean, you know, it’s just, it’s really bad to look at this list. They, I could tell you right now, they are just not, they may end up with Joe.
But you could tell for two years they haven’t wanted to go there because of all the turnovers. And I really wish somebody would do a deep analytic dive on, all right, X amount of turnovers, know, how that hurts you. But what if the guy throws a lot of touchdown passes? Like Joe in his five games here threw 13 touchdown passes and eight interceptions.
Eight interceptions is a lot in five games, but so is 13 touchdown passes.
David Campbell (46:53.039)
There’s all there. are some analytics. I think, you know, there’s expected points added, which is a real analytics, uh, darling stat, which basically how many points did you add for your team on a given play? Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s important. And I just, uh, I just, when I think about Russell Wilson, well, let me go back for it. So Jimmy Watkins, our colleague had an interesting column yesterday and this figures into it for me. All right. If they take a quarterback at number two.
Terry Pluto (46:56.963)
Yeah.
David Campbell (47:20.793)
Jimmy’s column was about how they need to sit him. And you know how impatient fans are and Brown’s fans, and rightfully so because they haven’t had a lot of winning. But in Jimmy’s column, he wrote 10 of the last 15 quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl sat for at least nine games of their rookie season, which I thought was a really interesting stat. And he also had of the six first round picks to win a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them, three of them sat at least nine games to start their career and some of them start.
Terry Pluto (47:38.112)
Ooh, ooh, very good, Jimmy. Yeah.
David Campbell (47:50.645)
Sat more. So going back to your list here, the person you bring in is going to probably need to start at least nine games. You know, the Browns are very big in analytics. They probably know this stat and they don’t want to rush a rookie quarterback into it. So Russell Wilson, if you tell them, we’re going to start you for the first nine games and we’ll see how it goes. Would he be okay with that? Or is he like, listen, I’m going to be the starter here for two years. And if that’s not the case, I’m not coming. Like that’s.
Terry Pluto (48:18.614)
I mean, all right. And the other thing they’re talking about, mean, Russ is looking at
David Campbell (48:19.203)
These are all the negotiations that are happening right now,
Terry Pluto (48:26.68)
Who got eight million from the commanders? Marcus Mariota?
David Campbell (48:30.929)
yeah i got one year eight million dollars
Terry Pluto (48:33.698)
Well, Russ is going, I’m twice as good as that guy. I won 15. No, I’m very serious. These guys remember the players keep score with contracts. Why did Miles Garrett? Why was I so adamant about Miles would come back and why did he come back and why? Because in the end, yes, he wanted to win, but he wanted the big contract too. That he wanted both. And when he realized he couldn’t get both,
David Campbell (48:36.973)
Yeah, that figures into it too.
Terry Pluto (49:03.266)
He took the money and that is probably what’s going to happen here. Now, whereas Joe, think would, know, 4 million, whatever it is, he’ll take it. He wants to play. And actually Joe would be, you know, good to start and okay, fine. mean, so he plays five games and he throws.
the 11 touchdown passes and seven interceptions. You want to watch last year, they couldn’t move the ball last year and as bad as Jamis was, he moved it for both teams, but he moved the ball now. And I’m very serious about this. You know, at least with Jamis, he went in there thinking, well, if you get good Jamis, she got a chance. And because remember we’re talking temporary, like you said, nine games or whatever we’re talking.
David Campbell (49:35.171)
Yeah, mean, the Browns are pretty
David Campbell (49:59.609)
Well, you’re making me think about Corey Kluber. The Browns need a Corey Kluber here. don’t need, I just get like, Jacoby Brissette was a good Corey Kluber and Jameis Winston was a good Corey Kluber. And like, think Joe Flacco and Carson Wentz, given where they are in their careers, would probably be a better Corey Kluber for the young quarterbacks on the roster than Russell Wilson would be. I just think Russell Wilson thinks he has three or four years left to be a good starter in this league. And I’m not saying he is, but I think that’s what he thinks.
Terry Pluto (50:03.427)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (50:08.792)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (50:29.346)
It probably is, he looks around and thinks so. that’s a tough thing there. All right, I wanted to ask you, what do you think of Sugar Sanders?
David Campbell (50:36.855)
Okay, let’s, yeah, we have an email here about Shadour Sanders that’ll kind of get us there. How about that? So this comes from Max Torum. Max is a long time listener of the show and he says, hey, David and Terry, hope you two are both doing well. I’m curious to know your thoughts on Shadour Sanders and whether you think he’s worth taking it number two overall. He’s a great athlete and could be a great quarterback one day, but I have a comparison that I think you may find interesting. Lonzo Ball.
Lonzo was also taken with the number two overall pick by the Lakers in 2017 I think his draft stock was inflated in large part due to the hype around him from social media and his father being so involved and outspoken in media appearances I fear Deion Sanders is doing the same thing for Chidur and I just feel like if his father wasn’t an NFL legend He would probably be scouted as a second or third round talent Chidur Sanders is one in seven against ranked opponents, and I’m not sure he’s the guy
What do you think? Does Sanders have real NFL talent? Is it worth taking the risk? Of course, this is assuming Cam Ward goes number one overall. If he’s there, I’d love to make him a Brown. All the best, Max Torum. And Max says, I know it’s a little late, but my favorite Cleveland sports moment of 2024 was when Max Struce hit the full court game winner against the Mavericks. Talk about an electric atmosphere. So anyway, thanks for that, Max. Okay, so Shadour Sanders, everything I’m seeing, he is not like a
Terry Pluto (51:42.966)
David Campbell (51:55.553)
middle for he’s not a top middle. He’s not a top 16 pick like his talent does not equate to what we’ve seen in past quarterback drafts, but he plays quarterback and it is what it is. And if the Browns need a quarterback, they might as well take him at number two. Like what’s why not? and the other thing I think I’ve seen Todd McShane and some other people have been talking about this, Terry, and this ties into Joe Flacco.
Kevin Stefanski doesn’t need like a hall of fame quarterback to win. mean, how many times he’s won with Keenum and he’s won with Joe Flacco and like he, he needs somebody who can stand in the pocket, run play action, deliver the ball on time and in the right spot and not turn it over. He doesn’t need the second coming of Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre or...
Peyton Manning to win games. So I think the Browns would be okay with somebody like Shidour Sanders as a starter down the road. What’s say you?
Terry Pluto (52:58.668)
Okay. Couple of things. I really have to look at these guys more, but a couple of things that should do her. One is, he’s not an elite athlete. Yeah. That’s a mistake being made there. he’s a pretty good athlete, but he’s not elite. He’s not, he’s not that fast. Not no. secondly, he is extremely tough minded. This guy, I think he’s been sacked like 90 times in the last two years. That’s not an exaggeration. It’s close.
David Campbell (53:12.153)
True. Not a big scrambler.
Terry Pluto (53:29.108)
And that, and I watched him twice this year, once against BYU and I forgot the other game and the poor guy had no time to throw. And he was, and he did not turn on his team or anything. I really liked that toughness in him. He is an accurate passer, maybe not a deep passer, but he is an accurate passer. And, that counts for something.
And in terms of he has played out of the pocket at two to your point. Um, I mean, there’s all these what ifs. mean, what if the, the Browns go six and 11, they’re going to fire Kevin and then, you know, you got to have to hire Dion to, you know, that, that kind of stuff. But I guess that’s like one of those things. If you start thinking about that, then you’re, going down a really weird, weird road.
Of course, if you go 6 and 11, how good was Shadoor?
David Campbell (54:29.997)
Well, and the one in seven record against ranked opponents. mean, you’re right, Terry, their offensive line two seasons ago was probably the worst in big time college football and wasn’t much better. Colorado loaded up on skill players and did not take care of the lines. think Deion Sanders would admit that. And I don’t think we’ve seen him at his best a ton because of the, he didn’t have time a lot of times to throw.
Terry Pluto (54:38.189)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (54:52.894)
I need to look some more. I have looked at him some. I was talking to a guy. I was at a place called Rima Church on 35th and St. Clair. Pastor there, Anthony Parker, is a friend of mine. Guy’s got an interesting career. He is a bailiff in Cleveland. His other job is he is a magistrate in some place like Highland Heights or Richmond Heights, one of those.
And somehow he ended up pastoring this church because someone else couldn’t do it or left that he had just was part of it. But anyway, he asked me to talk to, uh, uh, his men’s group there and we were talking. So I was talking just to a few guys. And again, it was this, I don’t do this a lot, but it was a special favorite Anthony who’s been in my faith council lot. one of the guys there, no Sanders, uh, cause somehow there’s a connection with Ted Ginn and I didn’t get the whole thing.
And he was just saying, you know, that this is a smart kid. He’s tough minded, all the stuff that, you know, I’ve seen now, you know, of course he, because of the connection, he wants them to draft them, but it was, it matched what I had just noticed from the outside, which made me, you know, again, at least interested in him where the tendency is to go, here comes Dion and here comes all this garbage. And this got out of the Sean Watson and all the drama, but,
I’m not too worried about it that and the question is how good is he?
David Campbell (56:22.831)
Well, and I do want to mention going back to the, to the Lamello and Lonzo ball, like it’s, it’s an advantage to be the son of a hall of Famer in a sport, but I think it can be a disadvantage too, in a lot of ways. And, and, you know, you’ll go back to Levar ball. This was like a dad with a huge personality who had been successful in sports and he basically drove two of his three kids to the NBA. I don’t mean drove in a negative way. I’m just saying like he pushed them to make it.
Terry Pluto (56:34.071)
Yes it is.
Terry Pluto (56:41.229)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (56:49.154)
Yeah.
David Campbell (56:51.203)
Like that’s hard to do and it’s hard to be the kid when your dad is your coach, your financial advisor, your hype man, right? And if you go back to Shadour, like it’s not easy being Deon’s kid. It’s not easy being, you know, a highly recruited kid who moves to Colorado with your dad, cause he’s the coach and now you’re the starting quarterback and he’s heard a lot from haters over the years. It makes you tough.
Terry Pluto (56:57.859)
yeah.
Terry Pluto (57:05.505)
No.
Terry Pluto (57:15.328)
And even, the other thing to think about this too, to, this is say something pretty good, David is certainly he was, it’s not a knock on Jackson States program, but he was, when, you know, recruited above that level. and, but he went with his dad there and then, you know, he went to Colorado with his dad, had he wanted to go on the transfer portal then, and kind of have open season, he could have gone.
somewhere else. Now some some kids really because I’ve talked to them really wanted to play for their father. They really did. Where others it’s like I think it’s a very hard spot because you have to be so good and he’s handled that part very well. So that’s that’s Sanders.
David Campbell (58:00.355)
Yeah.
David Campbell (58:05.387)
Yeah, it seems like either the kids want to go into it and just jump all in to the sports thing or they go the other way. I remember, I think the night Dan Marina was inducted into the Hall of Fame, at the Hall of Fame game down in Canton at halftime, they had an interview and he was there with his son and his son was going to film school. I’m like, all right, wow, well, that’s different than football. That’s dramatically different.
Terry Pluto (58:11.395)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (58:22.038)
Yeah, right. Or even like Donovan Mitchell’s dad was a minor league pitcher and that, and you he went towards, now he plays some baseball, I bet he was good too, but he went towards basketball. Sometimes they go on the different sports.
So there you go. All right.
David Campbell (58:38.893)
All right. Anyway, I think the Browns could win with Shador Sanders. I don’t think he needs to be Peyton Manning or, you know, I’m trying to think. He doesn’t need to be Lamar Jackson to help the Browns win. think that the structure of what Kevin Stefanski’s offense is going to be is it fits. It fits what he does. It’d be fine.
Terry Pluto (58:56.578)
How about this? I’m really going in this direction. Suppose you take Sanders and the third or fourth round you take the kid from either one of the Ohio State guys, McCord or what’s his name? Will Howard, Have to take two.
David Campbell (59:11.907)
Will Howard? Sure. think Will Howard could have a long career in the NFL and maybe not as a starter, but he’s the kind of guy you want around and if you need him to win a game for you, he might be able to win a game or two if you threw him in.
Terry Pluto (59:19.298)
So then you...
Terry Pluto (59:25.326)
Right. mean, maybe he’s better than that. I don’t know, but you take two. mean, when Kurt Cousins got drafted the same year that Washington took, RG three, there was nobody thinking that his career would way last longer than, RG threes, then RG three had some injuries. But even when you watched them throw on that, all of sudden, you know, cousins had just a better feel for the quarterback position than RG three.
David Campbell (59:28.067)
Could be, yeah.
David Campbell (59:53.377)
and has made a lot more money.
Terry Pluto (59:54.146)
So that I’m going in this direction. I’m just take two. Why not? You got 11 picks or whatever they have coming up. All right.
David Campbell (59:59.299)
You
Might as well. Yep, yep. All right. Cavaliers.
Terry Pluto (01:00:06.935)
Yes.
David Campbell (01:00:08.813)
Eight and four in March. It’s been a little bit of a stretch. Donovan Mitchell has admitted he has not been at his best. That’ll do it. That’ll do it.
Terry Pluto (01:00:10.84)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (01:00:16.012)
You mean 33 % from the field and 70 % on this is the month of March. Yeah, that’s what he’s been.
David Campbell (01:00:23.897)
So I am of the opinion that this is not a big deal and they just need to get to the playoffs and get ready. Are you thinking there’s more to it than that?
Terry Pluto (01:00:26.815)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (01:00:34.464)
I want them healthy. There’s something wrong with Mitchell. I looked at a couple of his drives. I did not watch the Utah game. he play in Utah? forgot. Cause yeah, yeah, we’ve been, cause a little bit with my mom passing away, we’ve been kind of drifting in and out with some stuff. But in the Phoenix game, his first two drives, he went to the rim. He suddenly kind of veered off to the right and you know how you kind of flips that ball up there and it goes in.
David Campbell (01:00:44.111)
He did, yeah, right?
Terry Pluto (01:01:03.182)
He would flip it and hit the side of the backboard. I mean, it was like he was protecting his leg or not wanting to make a sharp move. And the shots that he’s missing, it’s not shot. It’s like he’s kind of firing it at the rim from the outside. But I’ll tell you who else is having a bad March. This is 12 games is Darius. He’s 39 % for the field, 32%.
on three pointers. This is a guy who entering marches shooting 49 % from the field, 43 on threes. Donovan was shooting like 40 % on threes. He was again, 17%. And, I don’t know what it was from the field, but it was pretty good. Even, how about I even tied Jerome, you know, we’ve been making everything. He was shooting only 31 % on threes. I’m dwelling on the three point shooting because the calves
have been over 40 % leading the NBA and three point shooting heading into March, but this month they’re 34%. And they live off the three pointer, that’s a big part of their offense.
David Campbell (01:02:10.371)
I just think, I just get the sense that they’re bored and tired of the regular season and just want to get it over with. you know, if I’m the Cavs, it’s like, I’m getting these guys in the weight room. I’m getting their core built, playoff ready. It’s like getting your pitching staff ready for the playoffs, right? Like they need to get everything in order. And I just, don’t think they care. I don’t think they care so much right now.
Terry Pluto (01:02:14.065)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (01:02:23.831)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:02:33.134)
I just want to make sure that there, know that Kenny part of it want it’s to build up the minutes a little bit from, you know, 30 to 34, 35 for the last couple of games. But big, but you have two guards with an injury history who are your key guys, Darius and Donovan. And now I’m sounding like an analytics guy. Like I’d rather have them play less and be healthy than play more and be supposedly quote unquote ready.
Cause I think those guys can be ready anyway. And this is my concern with, you know, Donovan last year got knocked out of the playoffs with a calf muscle pull and he’s had hamstrings and this is the one downside. That was another reason, you know, I always said, take the money. You know, that’s when you, when you have that. So that’s, that’s a concern there, but not huge.
but I’m more concerned about making sure that those two guards stay healthy. And you know, we could see a lot of Craig Porter Jr. and Ty Jerome and you whoever else you want to throw back in there in the back court. Merrill, I don’t care.
David Campbell (01:03:48.503)
Yeah, I think Ethan Sands from our staff has written about these morning workouts that Tristan Thompson has been doing with some guys. I just get the sense that like there’s maybe not basketball being played, but there’s other stuff conditioning and whatnot that’s happening behind the scenes that maybe has them off their basketball rhythm. Like I think they’re, they know how to get guys in shape for the playoffs without having them play 38 minutes.
Terry Pluto (01:03:55.288)
Damn.
Terry Pluto (01:04:01.346)
Yeah, exactly.
Terry Pluto (01:04:12.482)
By the way, Ethan is very, very good. mean, I think Chris Fedor is, is, you know, elite and Ethan is following his way. Ethan, they’re very nice piece on Jared Allen. If people haven’t read that, they should look it up. That’s Roberta’s favorite Cavalier by the way, is Jared Allen.
David Campbell (01:04:15.55)
he’s great.
David Campbell (01:04:19.023)
They make a great team.
David Campbell (01:04:29.187)
Nice. All right, so the Cavs are playing Portland tonight on Tuesday, 10 o’clock tip off, and then they’re back home. have San Antonio on Thursday at seven, but back to back, they’re at Detroit on Friday, and then Sunday they have the Clippers. That’s a 3.30 tip off. So heading down the home stretch. So, all right, Terry, I know you got some really good response, and certainly everybody’s condolences are with you with the loss of Melva. I know that you’ve been talking to Bishop Joey Johnson and...
Terry Pluto (01:04:30.926)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:04:43.416)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:04:58.665)
Can you kind of talk about the response you’ve gotten from people and kind of in the wake of Melva’s passing at age 99?
Terry Pluto (01:05:04.654)
Yeah, Mel was 99. She was like my, my mom, my second mom after Mary Pluto died in 1984. Melva basically picked me up on waivers in 2000. And so that’s 25 years. really, um, it, her death hit me harder than my mom’s and some others. And, uh, Bishop Joey from, um, house of the Lord and Akron is it, is one of my closest friends. And he was at the Vanguard, at least in the
Akron area and probably Cleveland too on grief counseling and all this in his church. He’s been certified by all these different grief programs brought into his church. A lot of other churches have it now, which is really good. So I was telling him about that and he was saying a couple of things because I said,
Like when I had, like after mom died, I had to go over to St. Edward’s village in Fairlawn to tell her roommate and all these that she lived there for seven years, seven years and tell these people. And of course that was full of anxiety and, and that, that, you know, there’s a trigger, you know, things happen. You know, somebody died on a certain date or whatever, like her daughter, Gloria, who was close to us too. That’s how I met Melva. Gloria was our partner and,
in prison ministry. She’s great gospel singer. She died on October 6th. I know that date, you know, that comes around. I mean, I’m the one that unfortunately there, her death came out of nowhere because Roberta and I took terms driving her to and from her job in Walmart. I went over to pick her up and we couldn’t get her and I had the keys. I went in and found her dead on the floor. She had dealt with a major, major form of epilepsy for years and years and in the end it got her. So those things,
are natural. he said, this is Bishop Joe, he said, think about being on the seashore. He goes, you watch. Now, when you see the storm clouds coming, you’re not surprised when the waves kick up and there’s a sort of an uneasiness, you know, you feel it. But he said, there also is sort of the natural tides of going in and out. And he said, sometimes the weather’s fine.
Terry Pluto (01:07:21.624)
But the tides get stronger for whatever reason. Sometimes it just happens. It doesn’t look like it, but there’s stuff going swirling underneath and it seems to come out of nowhere. And he says, that’s how grief sometimes is. He says, so don’t beat yourself up if all of a sudden you just feel sad or really tired for a couple hours or it seemed to came out of nowhere. It’s like the tides just acted up on you, even though the sky is clear and the sun is out. And I like that analogy.
David Campbell (01:07:49.037)
That’s a great analogy. It’s like the undertow, like you think you’re on the surface, all of sudden something just pulls you out and you’re not expecting it.
Terry Pluto (01:07:51.286)
Yeah. Right. It’s like when I’m up at, you hear some of it at Lake Erie, especially when Roberta and I go up to Lake Superior every year and they put out special warnings of, you know, in the area, this beach towards Marquette or this towards Munising, watch out for the low, as you said, the undertow tide. It’s really bad right now. It doesn’t look it. And sure enough, people go and they drowned.
So I just wanted to tell that, so sometimes you may have this sense of grief and you don’t know why. And that just is, now if it goes on for a long time and also don’t be afraid to find somebody, be it’s a grief group or somebody who’s been certified in this area to talk to about. And the other thing that came up to me is because Melva was in, and this is for caretakers now here.
Or somebody you have a older person living in your house that because she was in the nursing home the last seven years, I saw her five mornings a week. I saw her more than I saw my mom before she died. My mom, I doubt when I was 28 and she died when I was 28, excuse me. And you know, I had my career going in that. And, whereas I’m seeing Melville all the time. So that, and, we went through a lot of ups and downs. So that relationship.
became much deeper than I ever imagined. And he said, that is also something you look at, even though frankly, I’m relieved in a lot of ways that Melva passed away because she had had a stroke right after her 98th birthday. And this woman who had been fairly independent, yeah, she was on a walk or a nap, but she could get to the bathroom herself and she didn’t need a lot of help with meals or that, but you know, some of that, but then it became totally dependent. And that just, it just.
And so that’s, so it’s a relief that she doesn’t have to go through that anymore. And by the way, if you’ve ever been down a thing where you take care of someone and you feel relief, don’t let, as I would say, the evil one or whatever beat you up with guilt. You can be sad and relieved at the same time. I’ve been through that with several people, including my dad after his stroke and that. So those are just a couple of thoughts I wanted to throw out to people.
Terry Pluto (01:10:12.588)
because frankly, you live long enough, you’re gonna go through some of this stuff.
David Campbell (01:10:17.037)
Yeah, and people like Bishop Joey who are able to help you talk through some of that are really valuable resources, I’m sure, when you’re kind of sorting it all out.
Terry Pluto (01:10:21.624)
Right.
Yeah, he, yeah, it was, was really interesting to me because I had never, I knew all about the trigger points and that, but I never knew the other stuff. And that’s what was confusing me was this strange sadness that would seemingly come out of nowhere. And he said, it’s, it’s kind of like the tide below the tide or you, the undertow, like you said. Um, and, then all of sudden the undertow goes away. You know, that’s the only thing you go, well, it’s not there anymore.
David Campbell (01:10:50.123)
And no reason, it just kind of happens. All right. Well, if you haven’t had a chance to check out Terry’s column from last weekend on Melva, you definitely should. You’ll probably have a tear in your eye by the end of it like I did. So cleveland.com slash Pluto. So all right, Terry, we do have an email here to wrap up with, and it comes from Scott Cruz. I hope I said your last name is right, Scott. And Scott says, hey, Terry, I don’t expect that you’ll remember me.
Terry Pluto (01:10:51.252)
No reason, just stopped. Yeah.
David Campbell (01:11:17.389)
met, remember me, but I managed WCRF Cleveland for about five years and you were kind enough to join us on air many times to share perspectives on faith and sports. I’m in Dallas, Houston today, but follow Cleveland sports carefully and have thoroughly enjoyed your podcasts, books and newsletter. make it back to Cleveland about three or four times a year, but I’ve never had the opportunity to attend one of your presentations at a local library or bookstore. Do you ever record and post those talks?
Terry Pluto (01:11:20.654)
David Campbell (01:11:43.811)
I’m grateful for the superb content and for the chance to cross paths with you briefly in Cleveland. Thank you, Scott Cruz and PS. Always enjoy hearing Roberta’s opinion as well. There you go.
Terry Pluto (01:11:53.262)
Yeah, we don’t get Roberta scouting the last two years because she wasn’t there so she’s sitting on Stephen Kwan and Brian Roquio as the guy she found coming out of a ball two for two I do remember Scott from WCRF and that’s back when their morning DJ was Mark Zimmerman Still a good friend of mine marks at a station in Barbados now and so no, we don’t we don’t record those because it
David Campbell (01:11:57.071)
you
David Campbell (01:12:03.609)
Two for two.
Terry Pluto (01:12:23.566)
It’s a lot of interactive stuff and you know, it’d be kind of a difficult thing in terms of production and that. So come on, Scott, you know what you need to do? Get my schedule, this fly up from Dallas, write it off your taxes somehow as research and then go back. That’s right. You know, one thing that is at a library, it’s free. So at least that won’t cost you anything. If you’ve got some friends up here, maybe somebody let you stay at their house for free.
David Campbell (01:12:36.355)
That’s right.
David Campbell (01:12:40.527)
Serial throwing a free book on top of it all.
David Campbell (01:12:48.931)
Yeah.
There you go. Yeah, mean, I don’t know if behind the scenes, and Scott probably knows this, but it takes a lot to record stuff and do it well. Like you gotta have microphones in the right place and edit it and upload it somewhere. but anyway, maybe down the road we’ll see. Maybe we could do one of those, Terry. It might be fun. if we can find some people to do it. So, all right, I think we’re good, right? Anything else? I think, all right.
Terry Pluto (01:13:00.812)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:13:13.826)
That is it for me.
David Campbell (01:13:16.163)
Just a quick reminder send us your opening day stories one more time. I’m gonna put in a plug for this send them to Cleveland.com I got the address wrong sports at cleveland.com and put Terry’s talking in the subject line and we’ll be back It’ll be the last podcast before opening day. We’ll talk to you then and Terry’s talking