CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs’ recent victory over the Portland Trail Blazers, focusing on the importance of rebounding.
How to watch the Cavs: See how to watch the Cavs games with this handy game-by-game TV schedule.
Takeaways:
Cavs ended their road trip with a win over the Blazers.
Historic season for the Cleveland Cavaliers with multiple records.
Kenny Atkinson’s trust in players allows them to play through struggles.
Darius Garland’s performance was crucial for the team’s success.
Rebounding remains a concern for the Cavaliers as they approach playoffs.
Sam Merrill’s starting role was a strategic decision by Kenny Atkinson.
Cavs are focusing on health and injury management as playoffs near.
Darius Garland is working on improving his shooting efficiency after slumping in March.
Jarrett Allen’s role is vital in the team’s defensive strategy.
Cavs’ magic number for clinching the top seed is down to six.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands
What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. And we are recording this at 4 in the morning after the Cavs. Eastern, Eastern time, of course, after the Cavs ended their road trip with a win over the Portland Trail Blazers, 1-22, 1-11. And Chris, this is the same Portland Trail Blazers team.
Chris (00:20.733)
Uff.
Ethan Sands (00:33.536)
and took the Cavs to overtime in their last matchup. So we got to see a little bit more competitive nature from the Cleveland Cavaliers. Obviously, during the month of March, we’ve known them to have some shakeups. We’ve had to see some different aspects of their game fluctuating throughout this month. But we got to see good offense almost throughout the entire game for tonight for the Cleveland Cavaliers. And I think that was extremely important for where the Cavs are at.
And as you know, I’m going to run through a couple of stats overall to make sure our fans and our listeners understand where the Cleveland Cavaliers are in the season as we head to the end of March and as the Cleveland Cavaliers are on their flight already heading back to Cleveland. The Cavs are 58 and 14. They have now matched their prop bets for the season. I know it took a little bit longer than we might have thought during that 16 game win streak. But tonight’s victory was the Cavs 20th win against the Western Conference this season.
Chris (01:22.656)
you
Ethan Sands (01:30.094)
marking Cleveland’s 7th time in franchise history with 20 or more wins versus the West, and it is their most since the 2015-2016 season, where they had 22 wins against the Western Conference that year. Tonight was DeKalb’s 40th time this season, recording 120 or more points, their most in a single season in franchise history, not to mention the previous mark was 24 times, done in 1979, 1980, and 2016-2017.
The Cavs obviously ended this game having multiple players and double figures Darius Garland had 27 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds. really do like the rebound aspect of Darius Garland’s game lately. Ty Jerome off the bench 25 points. He’s been a monster off the bench all season. He had four triples and then Evan Mobley, stat sheet stuffer, 21 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 blocks and I know
Jared Allen had a rough go of it entering the fourth quarter, but he’s around came back 14 points five or eight rebounds, excuse me. And this is the 28th road win of the season for the Cleveland Cavaliers, which is the most in a single season in franchise history. 28 this year. The latest mark was 27 from 2008-2009 season. Yes, Chris, we’re continuously talking about a historic season for Cleveland Cavaliers team.
Chris (02:51.794)
you
Ethan Sands (02:53.758)
even after a 4 game losing streak that had the Cavs fandom up in arms. What did you take away from tonight’s game? Even though we know it’s March, they’re getting ready for the playoffs, so maybe more about that and end of season stuff that you might have heard on round the block.
Chris (03:11.412)
Well, you brought up the Jared Allen thing and I think it’s interesting because you know, there was a point in the fourth quarter and Jared had played like seven total minutes in the second half and I turned to somebody that was sitting next to me, a member of the Cavs and I said, is Jared coming back in the fourth quarter? Are they going to play him in the fourth quarter? What do you think? And the person that I was talking to said, I don’t...
And then right as that happened, Jarrett popped off the bench. Well, Darius popped off the bench first and Jarrett didn’t. And I was like, interesting. Darius is coming in and Jared’s going to be benched again in the fourth quarter. And then Jarrett popped off the bench to join Darius. And I think that just speaks to the trust that Kenny Atkinson has in his guys. You know, sometimes these guys are not making shots. Sometimes these guys are not playing well.
And you know, in past situations with a past coach, it’s entirely possible that Jarrett wouldn’t have gotten an opportunity in the fourth quarter to rebound and make the kind of impact that he made in the fourth quarter for the Cavs, both defensively and offensively.
I just think Kenny has this trust in a lot of these guys and he has given them a longer leash. He allows them to play through their struggles. He allows them a level of confidence. And it’s not every single game that Jared’s going to finish in the fourth quarter. There are some where Kenny’s going to look at it and say, look.
It might be better for us to close with Dean Wade or it might be better with us to close with Deandre Hunter and Max Struess in just one big and that one big is going to be Evan Mobley. But tonight Kenny Atkinson talked about it. said Portland was willing to play small and we wanted to make them pay for that.
Chris (05:04.328)
And they were able to do that with Evan, the way that he played in the fourth quarter and the way that Jared Allen played in the fourth quarter. So one, I give Kenny a lot of credit for going back to Jared in the face of his struggles in the first three quarters, in the face of his relative ineffectiveness in the first three quarters. And I also give Jared a lot of credit for.
you know, shaking off bad three quarters and not allowing that to define the game that he was going to have. And he was instrumental just like Evan Mobley was in the final six minutes of the game where the Cavs held Portland without a single made field goal. This game was one on the defensive end. Ultimately. Yeah. The offense was great. The offense was flowing. Guys were in rhythm.
the Cavs shot a really good percentage from the field. They shot a good percentage from three point range as well. They exploited the matchup advantages that they had, especially when you talk about in the paint. But they won this game on the defensive end of the floor by basically shutting down the Blazers and thwarting every single time they tried to make a run, including.
Late in the game. I mean to hold a team without a made field goal for six straight minutes in the NBA That’s saying something and that’s part of the reason why you know a lot of the guys in the locker room wanted to talk about Evan Mobley and his defensive player of the year candidacy because of the way that the Cavs defended in the fourth quarter and because of how impactful Evan and Jarrett to a lesser extent were both during that stretch of the game
Ethan Sands (06:41.432)
Chris, I think that’s a great point. I think the biggest takeaway from this is one, that the Cavs can win in a multiple facets. We already know that, right? But Jared Allen being a guy that is willing to play in all these different roles is something that we’ve come to know and learn and like about Jared because of his willingness to let other people get shine or get the play that he might want, but understanding that there’s a bigger goal and there’s schemes that are set. And obviously,
Chris (06:51.658)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (07:10.658)
When you talk about the San Antonio Spurs game coming up on Thursday, that situation could be similar because they only have one player above six foot eight on their entire roster. Obviously, Jarrett’s six foot nine and a half, Evan Bobly seven foot. So you’ll have to see how those guys are going to stack up against those players. But especially with Victor Wimman Yama being out for the rest of the season and D.R. and Fox being out for the rest of the season. It’s things that you’re going to get to look at in the matchups in the rotations that Kenny is going to get to go to.
But with all that being said, do think it’s important for us to look at the rebounding discrepancy that’s been going out on for the Cavs in recent games, especially. Sure, we can talk about Valentinis and Vusovic and all these players that are simply great at rebounding, but I don’t think you can come into a game against the Portland Trail Blazers, who especially were playing small, and tell me that your third
Chris (08:00.352)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (08:07.614)
most rebounds were coming from your point guard. Like great for Darius. Darius was had eight rebounds, I believe it was the other night too. So he’s shown that he can get on the boards. And that’s also something that Kenny has been prioritizing with the smaller players around his team, telling them that if Jared and Evan are going to wall off their bigger guys, you guys have to be on the boards to help them out. But I think that also goes for Isaac, Deandre, Max, Sam, Javante, Dean Wade, like
There’s nobody else outside of Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, and Darius Garland in tonight’s game that had more than four rebounds. Isaac Kuro had four and everybody else was below them. So obviously it could just be one game, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the rebounding aspect as of late and how that could affect the Cavs, especially in the physicality of the playoffs.
Chris (09:01.204)
Yeah, so this isn’t about Jarrett and Evan to me. I think anytime you talk about any kind of rebounding disparity, the first place you tend to look is at the Bigs, right? There are certain times, and we’ve talked about this, Ethan, there are so many times that the Cavs are going to go into a game and feel like they have the advantage inside in the front court because Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley are two of the best Bigs in the Eastern Conference, right?
So there are so many games that the Cavs are going to play where their two bigs are going to be a clear asset for them and it’s going to give them a clear advantage. But there are some games where, you know, the physicality and the strength and the girth of some of these centers that the Cavs are going to play against are going to make it tough on Jared. They’re going to make it tough on Evan.
And that means it’s going to be up to the other guys to kind of pick up the slack and understand that and see if they can help out the bigs, see if they can do the things that they need to do to make sure that there isn’t a huge rebounding disparity. Donovan Klingon, I don’t care if he’s a rookie, that dude is a monster. I walked by him on the floor.
during pregame warmups because I was walking to the other end to go talk to one of the executives that was in the building. And we were talking a lot about the Cavs and the thing that he said stood out to him about the Cavs is that everybody has bought into Kenny and everybody has the same goal and it’s just to play winning basketball. So I know it’s something that we’ve talked about. I know it’s something that we’ve written about, but to have another executive in the NBA recognize that off the bat, I think that’s pretty telling.
but I walked past Donovan Klingon and this dude’s a monster. So it’s not surprising to me that he had offensive rebounds. know, Denny Avdia has been a walking triple double. He’s been getting like double digit rebounds basically every single game in the month of March. So it’s not surprising to me that he had a couple of offensive rebounds too. And then you talk other stops along this trip.
Chris (11:16.612)
And you’ve got Zubach, who is just a monster on the boards. Right? They avoided Sabonis, which was nice, but then they had to deal with Valentunis, so that’s difficult in itself. It’s just, there are certain kinds of guys that are built to give Jared Allen and Evan Mobley problems. They have a level of strength and physicality that Evan and Jared don’t have yet and probably never will, because they’re just different kind of bigs.
Stylistically, not every big is the same big. Just like stylistically, not every point guard is the same kind of point guard. It’s the same thing. So I just think too many people focus on the...
the little instances throughout the course of the season where the matchup is not as favorable for Jarrett and Evan and they make it into this big thing about, my God, those guys can’t rebound. my God, those guys aren’t tough enough. my God, the Cavs are gonna get bullied out of the playoffs again because they got bullied out of the playoffs two years ago against the New York Knicks. And it’s like.
just relax a little bit and understand that it’s not so much about Jared and Evan. You know, the other guys have to rebound too. And I think this is something that the Cavs have to explore. And Ethan, we’ve talked about this on a previous podcast. If they’re going to play De’Andre at the four, there are some dangers in that.
DeAndre Hunter has never been a good rebounder throughout the course of his career, despite his size and despite the fact that he can guard multiple positions and all these great things about him, including the fact that in downsized lineups, you can probably get away with playing him at the five, depending on what the matchups are. But he has never been a great rebounder and the Cavs are playing him as the foreman, usually next to Evan Mobley. I mean, that puts a lot of pressure on Evan.
Chris (13:16.608)
So Deandre is going to have to be better when it comes to rebounding, especially if he’s going to play the fourth spot. You know, if the Cavs are going to downsize and go, I don’t even know if it’s considered downsize, but if they’re going to go with like Dean Wade at the five, he’s big, he’s tall. But if they’re going to go with him at the five, you know, you’re asking for trouble.
I guess the thing that I would say is that if you look at defensive rebound percentage in the NBA, both Jared Allen and Evan Mobley are top 15 in the league. That’s a pretty good place to be. We’re talking about in the category, in the same number range as Alperin Shangoon, as Vuch in Chicago, as Walker Kessler, who we saw what he’s capable of the other day for Utah, in the same range as Jokic.
You know, some of the best rebounders in the NBA. So to me, the numbers say that it’s not so much a Jarrett and Evan problem as it is a beyond those guys, the Cavs aren’t very good at rebounding the basketball.
Ethan Sands (14:22.296)
That’s why I brought that up, Chris, like looking at the rest of the lineup. And I feel like if I, if I really wanted to do the math and I probably should have done this while you were, when you were mentioning what you were saying. So Isaac had four, Deandre had three, that’s seven. Strews had two, that’s nine. Sam had two, that’s 11. Javante Green had two, that’s 13. Ty Jerome had two, that’s 15. Dean Wade had one, that’s 16.
Evan Mobley and Jared Allen combined for 20 rebounds. That’s not even counting Darius Garland’s five, right? So the three players should not be able to outr- two players should not be able to out rebound the rest of the Cleveland Cavaliers. And sure. And I think you make a good point about the personnel that they’ve gone up against. Donovan Klingon again is a great rebounder, but eight offensive boards and the Cavs coming away with nine total as a team.
Chris (15:14.944)
That’s a lot.
Chris (15:18.846)
It’s a lot.
Ethan Sands (15:19.064)
That I don’t think you can you can go away from that and be like, that’s okay That’s something we’re okay with no because there are gonna be guys that they see it might not be as as potent as klingon as vusovic as valetunas as these other players that we thought is zubac right there Maybe down the line. They’ll see some of these western comrades teams But I really do think that when you talk about these these numbers
Chris (15:26.058)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (15:46.634)
It’s more so about the other guys like you mentioned, Kristen. The other centers are going to come away and say, well, if I can wallop Jared Allen, I can trust one of my guards, one of my forwards to get a rebound rather than the Cavs who are just going to stand there and look at the basketball. And sometimes it’s tip away. Sometimes it’s things that are out of their control. Obviously, three pointers or long rebounds and go back to the guards that shot them. All these things got to be taken into account.
Chris (15:56.788)
Anyway.
Ethan Sands (16:15.32)
But I just think it’s very interesting when you talk about the rebounding of this team and what Kenny Atkinson has prioritized throughout this season. And every time somebody’s asked, what can you guys do better? He continuously brings up rebounding. And I don’t really think you’ve gotten a whole lot better this year. But going into another topic, I wanted to touch on Darius Garland because we’ve known that he’s had a troubled March. And obviously today with Donovan Mitchell being out.
due to injury management for his groin. I think it was important for Darius to have a kind of game that he did. He was perfect in the first quarter. He was three of three from the field, I believe. He ended the game with 27 points, eight assists, five rebounds, four turnovers. We want to see him clean up the turnovers with him handling the ball as much as he did. I’ll take that, right? Two to one. But I think also the most interesting thing to me is
Chris (17:06.238)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (17:11.234)
We’ve been more so worried about Darius Garland’s shot. His three point percentage has dipped this in March. We’ve seen him take lesser of those over the course of this losing streak and then coming into this road trip and all these things. Today, 10 of his 11 made field goals came within the three point range. And I think it’s valuable to have the knowledge that you can get to the basket, you can get to your spots in the mid range that you want. He was 11 of 19 from the field.
Chris (17:30.055)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (17:39.822)
But I also think it could be worrisome that he someone who is Kate who has had such a great season shooting three-pointer That he’s going away from it. And maybe it was just this game Maybe it was just a style of defense that scoot and and the other defenders on Kamara who is a great defender how he was hounding him at the point of attack and getting past him was a better option but I just think it’s something to
Chris (18:01.193)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (18:09.224)
look at going forward and how Darius could use the three point ball or he could go to his shiftiness in his bag that allows him to get basically whatever he wants on inside the three point line. What did you think about tonight and was it more so he was leaning on based on what the defense was doing or more so what he was confident in?
Chris (18:32.128)
I think it was a little bit of both. certainly think how the Blazers were defending the Cavs and defending Darius in particular, I think it allowed Darius to get to the basket. Klingon, for all the things that we talked about with him, he just doesn’t have the foot speed to keep up. So if he’s going to defend the pick and roll up high, Darius feels like he can beat him off the dribble and he can use his speed and his quickness.
And for all the things that are so great about Tomani Kamara as a defender and you he’s going to make a case for one of the two all defensive teams. He’s been that good and he takes on the kind of challenge that you want from an elite perimeter defender, whoever it is that is the greatest threat on the perimeter for the other team. Tomani Kamara is going to take that challenge. He’s long. He’s athletic. He does have quickness, but
that quickness doesn’t match up as well with shifty, speedy guards like Darius. So I think Darius understood, like, yeah, he’s got a size advantage. Yeah, he’s got a strength advantage. Yeah, he’s long, he’s athletic, and he can contest my shots on the perimeter, but I can beat him off the dribble. I can find a way to use my speed, my quickness, my craftiness to beat him off the dribble.
And I think Darius was willing to do that. And I think he was able to do that. So I think part of it was certainly matchup based. And Darius will be the first one to tell you Ethan that he has not been shooting the ball to his standard throughout the course of March. He even mentioned it.
in the post game conversation with me tonight, he said, you know, there are a couple of guys on this roster that just haven’t been playing up to the level that we’re capable of over the last couple of weeks. So he knows, he knows all about the shooting struggles. In fact, yesterday, the Cavs got to Portland immediately after, well, every Cav, but Donovan Mitchell, who went home to Cleveland got to Portland immediately after the game against the Utah Jazz. Uh, they left.
Chris (20:41.458)
Immediately after that game and they came to Portland and they slept here in Portland and they had all of Monday Yeah, Monday lost track of the days. They had all of Monday here in Portland and Some of the guys went to the Nike store because that’s what they do here in Portland I also went to the Nike employee store and took advantage of a really nice discount
But Darius is a New Balance guy. So instead of going to the Nike store, Darius decided to go to a gym and he got extra shots. And I talked to Kenny Atkinson after the game and he said, know, he sensed that Darius didn’t play well in the first matchup against the Blazers and Darius hasn’t been playing well throughout the course of March from an efficiency standpoint. And Darius was taking that personally and he has this chip on his shoulder.
And he wanted to go to a gym and get extra shots on a day that the Cavs did not practice. And Darius feels like that helped him and that kind of carried over to the game that he had against the Blazers. So it’s clear that he recognizes these struggles and he’s trying to do what he can to remedy them and he’s getting extra reps and he’s taking extra shots because he wants to be better.
because he wants to get back to the efficiency that he showed at the first half of the season that allowed him to become the all-star player that he has been for the Cavs. And this was his best shooting night, Ethan, from a statistical standpoint, since basically the beginning of February. So, I mean, we’re talking nearly two months at this point in time. So it has been a prolonged efficiency struggle from Darius, and it was really, really nice.
from the Cavs perspective to see a guy seeing an advantage and trying to exploit that as best as he could. That’s the definition of maturity. That’s the definition of reading the game. So I don’t think Darius is the kind of player, Ethan, that has to settle for these difficult outside shots, these difficult three-pointers. He has enough in his bag to do what he did tonight, get to his float game.
Chris (23:01.562)
score around the rim, finish through contact, create space in a different kind of way. And I thought tonight showed a lot of in-game maturity from Darius in terms of his recognition of how the Blazers were playing him and the personnel and how he could best attack that.
Ethan Sands (23:24.718)
Alright Chris, I got two more questions for you before we get out of here. Okay? So the first one’s rather quick. Sam Marrow got the start with Donovan Mitchell being out. First of all, I want to applaud Sam Marrow. was 4 of 6 from deep in 29 minutes tonight. He had 14 points. He was 5 of 7 from the field. So I remember a couple games ago that I was kind of harsh on Sam Marrow.
Chris (23:28.819)
Okay. Yep.
Chris (23:40.18)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (23:53.824)
Yep.
Ethan Sands (23:54.228)
after he did not shoot the basketball in a good chunk of his minutes, right? He was zero of zero from the field, zero of zero from deep, whatever you want to call it. Like I don’t, I think his value, Dean Wade’s value diminishes if they, and Sam Marrow more so than Dean Wade in this category, because Dean Wade plays better defense than Sam Marrow, even though statistically Sam Marrow is one of the best defenders, defensive rating in the NBA right now. But.
Sam Merrill needing to shoot the basketball is like Don’t duh Okay But he got the start tonight Did you get a chance to talk to Kenny Atkinson about that decision why he went with Sam instead of Ty why he went with Was it because he wanted to keep Ty and DeAndre on the bench together of the six-man role? What was the sense that you got for this situation?
Chris (24:28.573)
Yeah.
Chris (24:49.6)
So to take people behind the scenes, you know, I have various conversations with a bunch of people throughout the course of a game day.
And obviously, you know, for me, game day starts at shoot around in the morning. If there is a mandatory shoot around and sometimes if there’s a voluntary one and there are guys there that are participating in the voluntary one, then I’ll go to that and I’ll try and have conversations with them and get a feel for things with the team and whatnot. So game day for me starts early in the morning with that and it carries into the afternoon. Obviously.
I have to make time for my pregame nap. It’s part of my routine and I die late at night being up this late writing and podcasting if I don’t get that pregame nap. but mixed in there is a lot of conversations with a lot of people, both around the NBA and around the team about various things. And earlier today, right before I was about to go down for, for my nap, my quick little pregame nap,
I got a text message from somebody because I reached out to multiple people to see what the plan was for the Cavs in terms of how they were going to replace Donovan who was going to go in the starting lineup. So I got a text from a source saying who it was going to be and my response was, that’s interesting because you know Sam hasn’t been playing great offensively. The shot hasn’t been there.
2 of 9 against Utah, 0 of 4 against Phoenix, as you mentioned Ethan, he didn’t shoot against Sacramento, you know, 1 of 7 against... This wasn’t the stretch where you would think to yourself, okay, Donovan’s not playing, the obvious choice is Sam because he’s shooting the crap out of him. Or because he’s making such an impact on the offensive end of the floor. This has been a struggle for Sam, and I think part of the reason.
Chris (26:56.21)
Like, I think part of the reason why Kenny went with him is because this was an opportunity to get him a little bit of confidence, get him to play with the starters, get him more involved in what they were doing. And I think, I don’t know what it is, but Kenny Atkinson has a magic touch because, you know, the past week, two weeks,
has shown that this was a bizarre decision by Kenny, right? Like, put the guy who’s struggling the most in the starting, like what? But it worked in like the gravity, the movement, the shooting, just the way that the Blazers had to pay attention to him, the quickness that he was able to get his shots off.
Like some of the sets that they were running specifically for him with Jarrett setting the screen for him up high, it was beautiful basketball and he was a big part of that. So I was a little bit surprised obviously when I got that text message because I responded, that’s interesting. That was my way of saying, hmm, didn’t expect that one.
But I didn’t want to come out and say, hmm, didn’t expect that one. You look like a fool for making this, you know what I mean? Like, I didn’t want to say that. So I just said, that’s interesting. That’s like when you want to criticize a coach and you start with, well, you know, he’s a really nice guy. And then you’re like, okay, but the butt is coming here. So I think part of the reason why they did it is the struggles that, that Sam has been having. And this was a way to.
you know, continue to put confidence in him and show him that, I know you’re struggling, but we still believe in you, sort of thing. The other thing is the more obvious tactical personnel related thing. And Donovan wasn’t available. So it wasn’t going to be tie. You’re not putting both point guards that you have on the roster that you’re going to play in your every night rotation. No offense to Craig Porter Jr. But he doesn’t play every single night.
Chris (29:03.548)
So you’re not going to take both guys from your every night rotation that fill your point guard minutes and put them both in the starting lineup. So that took him out of the equation immediately. Probably could have gone with DeAndre if they wanted to. know, shift max to the two, put DeAndre at the three. They’ve done that at various points. But I think they wanted the spacing.
the movement, the three-point shooting, those tactical things when it came to Sam Merrill. And I also think, and Kenny mentioned this a little bit before the game, when it comes to DeAndre, there are still a lot of things that he’s still learning about DeAndre.
And I think he wants to, as much as he can, based on what’s available to him, I think he wants to continue, like I said, as much as he can, bring him off the bench and see that combination of him and Ty together.
that role for DeAndre, that usage for DeAndre and stuff like that. Continue to get a feel for those kinds of things when it comes to him rather than, you know, changing his role constantly. There are some cases where he’s going to start. There’s no doubt about it. But I just thought tonight from a tactical perspective, once you watch the game unfold and you add the answers to the test, you’re like, okay.
In hindsight, that did make some sense.
Ethan Sands (30:35.518)
sure. And when I, when we heard about Donovan Mitchell sitting out tonight, my mind immediately went, well, Kenny likes pushing screws to that two spot. He likes using him as a shooting guard. So I was like, okay, a Coro is an option. They’ve done that a lot this year. Do they put Dean Wade back? They haven’t done that a whole lot since he’s come back from his injury, right? But I knew that they weren’t going to go with
Chris (30:49.855)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (31:03.16)
tie, obviously for the point guard reason. We also talked about the mismatches of having both two liability defenders on the floor at the same time. And then I pulled up the stack, Chris, and Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland have played 60 games together. Exactly. Darius Garland and Ty Jerome have played exactly 60 games together. The minute discrepancy of them being on the floor together is astounding.
Right? And obviously we know that Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland split minutes, even though they closed games together, started the games together, all these things. But Donovan and Darius have played 60 games in 1017 minutes together in this season. Darius Garland and Ty Jerome have played 60 games together this season, 465 minutes on the floor together. That’s all. That’s it. And it’s crazy to think about how these two and their net ratings are like identical.
Chris (31:32.991)
Yeah.
Chris (31:55.07)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ethan Sands (32:02.868)
Offensive rating 121.3, defensive rating 110.1 with Darius and Donovan on the floor, 11.2 net rating. Darius and Ty on the floor, 121.2, 109.8 defensive rating for a net rating of 11.3. So basically identical. But what I want to ask you, Chris, as we wrap up today’s podcast, even though I could spew on nonsense about
Chris (32:03.114)
Mm.
Chris (32:20.0)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (32:25.486)
Ty Jerome for hours and hours and hours. It is late or early or whatever you want to say. Good morning and good night, basically how I would describe it. Ty had 25 points, four or five from deep. And that’s really where he made his biggest impact. He was nine to 15 from the field, 60%. Again, really good player. You think about 50, 40, 90 when it comes to his season. But I want to ask you going into the game against San Antonio with the back to back.
against Detroit on Friday. I think it’s crazy that the Cavs are coming off a five game road trip and have a back to back as their next series. But do you think that the Cavs rest players on Thursday to have them ready to play Detroit on Friday?
Chris (32:59.104)
sorry.
Chris (33:12.064)
if it’s going to be Thursday or Friday specifically, but I think somebody will be rested or injury managed in one of those two games. And look, it’s not just coming back from the road trip. It is coming all the way from Portland and then losing three hours. I was talking to somebody in the locker room about this. The Cavs were scheduled to leave Portland.
around 11 30 12 local time and it’s a four hour flight and then that turns into seven o’clock by the time that they land and that means getting home at seven 30 a.m like that is that is outrageous that is ridiculous and then they go into a back-to-back they go into one home game and then they have to travel again like what like who hates them in the nba schedule maker office oh
Ethan Sands (34:05.346)
And then the matinee is the next game? my God. They come home, they go home for one game, then go to Detroit, play Detroit, then they go back home and play a matinee game at like 3.30. And I’m like, sheesh.
Chris (34:14.182)
One. Yeah.
Chris (34:20.179)
Yeah.
Chris (34:24.2)
I know making the schedule is very, very difficult and a lot of things have to be accounted for. But there have been some wonky things here in March for the Cavs. So somebody at the league office that makes the schedule, somebody hates the Cavs. Somebody with the Cavs did something wrong to whatever person this is. But beyond that, think certainly one of these games is a candidate for that.
I don’t know who it would be at this point in time. It’s so hard to predict because again, so much of this is data driven and you know, they get with the medical staff and they get with everybody involved and they look at all these different numbers and they say, okay, who is a candidate? Who’s in the yellow? Who’s close to the red? Who’s in the green? All those kinds of things. but just given the way that the schedule sets up and how difficult this road trip was, both from a physical and a mental standpoint too.
I don’t know if it’s going to be Thursday or Friday. I don’t think the Cavs are looking at it saying, Hey, you know, it’s more important for us to beat the Pistons or the Pistons are more difficult to beat. So we need all hands on deck and we need a full allotment because as we’ve talked about here, Ethan, winning is not the sole purpose for this team over the next three weeks. It’s just not, it’s certainly something they want. These guys play to win.
Kenny Atkinson coaches to win, but it’s not the sole purpose. If it was the sole purpose, Donovan Mitchell wouldn’t have flown back to Cleveland two days early. You know what mean? Like they would want their MVP candidate to finish off the road trip. If it was the sole purpose, know, Kenny wouldn’t be experimenting as much with these lineups, especially in end of game situations and being relatively okay with failure if these things don’t work. You know what I’m saying?
So because of that, like, I don’t know that the Cavs are looking at the schedule and saying, well, one team’s not as good and another team is good. And it would take better players to beat that team and not as good players to beat that team. I just think it’s what makes the most sense for us from a health injury management, rest.
Chris (36:49.21)
and physical exertion standpoint based on all these different factors and all these different numbers that we have in front of us. But I do think it is somewhat interesting, Ethan, that Donovan wasn’t ruled out with rest. He was ruled out with injury management related to his groin. So I know that Donovan has downplayed it. And I know that Kenny has downplayed it.
And everybody on this team has downplayed it. But Donovan is getting treatment on that groin still before games. And Donovan is a guy that the Cavs are going to have to monitor here down the stretch when it comes to rest, injury management, getting games off. because it’s clear that it still is.
You don’t want to say not 100 % because how many guys are 100 % right now. But it’s clear that there’s still something that is keeping him from feeling like he can go without extra maintenance for that growing issue.
Ethan Sands (38:05.262)
100 % and something to monitor and as we say we could never say never but we’re gonna keep an eye on it and see what happens when it comes to the back-to-back which again could see another rest or injury management day for Darius, Donovan, Evan, I feel like Jared is still gonna fight for that 82 games, but anyway,
Chris (38:24.96)
And by the way, mean Kenny Atkinson was asked again during pregame, how important is the number one seed to you guys? And he even said, feel like maybe it should probably be more important to me? I don’t know. I don’t know the right answer. But he basically said it’s not as important as people think it usually is or it should be.
And he once again reiterated just the importance of and the prioritization of rest and health down the stretch. that’s there’s if, if this road trip didn’t change that, right? Like the worst stretch that they’ve had all season, a four game losing streak. If that didn’t change it, then nothing is going to change that big picture plan. And I think that’s the way that it should be.
Ethan Sands (39:21.428)
And to end today’s podcast, I’m going to leave you guys with this. The Detroit Pistons, even though this is looking a little bit further ahead, they are fighting for that fifth seed in the Eastern Conference. They are in contention.
Chris (39:36.274)
And it is more possible today because of the injury situation with Damien Lillard.
Ethan Sands (39:41.39)
Milwaukee is in the 5th seed, Detroit is in the 6th seed, that could set up a second round bout between the Cavs and the Detroit Pistons, does that weigh into what they do on Friday. This is something more that we’ll discuss on tomorrow’s podcast when I get to talk to Jimmy in another late night episode. But I’ll leave you guys with this, the Cavs, even though they don’t care about the number 1 seed, their magic number
for the Cavs to clinch the top seed in the Easter Conference is down to six. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. If you guys wanna curate how me and Jimmy go about our podcast tomorrow for what day is it? Wednesday, Thursday? Great.
then send us in your questions and we can get back to you guys for that. And we will get to you guys for our reacting podcast after Thursday’s game against San Antonio and Friday’s game against Detroit. So it will be a weekend where you guys get some content from us this week. But to be able to send in your questions and to be our priorities to add them to our podcast and to make sure you get a shout out on the podcast, sign up for a 14 day free trial or
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Y’all be safe. We out.