CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins discuss the Cavs’ latest win against the San Antonio Spurs. They analyze the impact of a grueling schedule on player performance, particularly the slow start by the team.
How to watch the Cavs: See how to watch the Cavs games with this handy game-by-game TV schedule.
Takeaways:
Cavs are on their sixth three-game winning streak.
The team is experiencing fatigue from a long road trip.
Jarrett Allen’s performance was pivotal for the Cavs.
Donovan Mitchell’s playmaking has improved significantly since arriving in Cleveland.
Darius Garland’s shooting inconsistency raises concerns.
Kenny Atkinson empowers players through trust and rotation.
Selflessness among players is a key strength.
Managing minutes will be a challenge in the playoffs.
De’Andre Hunter’s versatility adds depth to the lineup.
Kenny’s coaching style adapts to player performance.
The Cavs’ playoff strategy will evolve based on matchups.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands
What up Cavs Nation, I’m your host Ethan Sands and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Top Podcasts. And we are coming to you after the Cavs’ latest win 124-116 over the San Antonio Spurs. And it was good to be back in Rocket Arena, Jimmy. I don’t know about you, but it felt like a long, long time and it was. was nearly like two weeks since we had been
back in Rocket Arena to cover a game for the Cavs as they were on a 10-day road trip. And also we understand that had a five game span in there as well. But the Cavs are now on their sixth three-game winning streak of the season. And Jimmy, I don’t know if you know this, but every time the Cavs have gotten three wins in a row, they have always this season gotten four wins in a
They have five of those games so far heading into Detroit tomorrow for the second game of a back-to-back first of all I don’t know who pissed in the the cereal of the the person that made the schedule for the Cavs or anything like that But it is a grueling one for March Jimmy I just wanted to get your sense on tonight’s game against the Spurs another team that Cavs played that didn’t really have anything to lose. They’re scrappy
They’re fiery. They play with pace. play with speed all of these things because did not have a great first half when it comes to Around the margins, especially Jared Allen and we’ll get into him In a little bit but the Cavs only scored 24 points in the second quarter and they came out in the second half and had an offensive blowout Jimmy I want to just get your thoughts in the first half and we’ll get to the second half in a little bit
Jimmy Watkins (01:56.66)
I think first half, honestly, this game as a whole, it felt a lot like an end of March kind of game. The accumulation of the regular season wearing down the Cavs, even though we’ve talked all season about how Kenny’s done a great job managing minutes and the Cavs are leaning really hard into sports science and being extra careful with
how much workload they put on guys’ plates. It’s still a long season, man. And it’s a long season. We’re at the point of the season where the Cavs are coming off a super long road trip. think Don said that the team got in at 7 a.m. today. Like, that’s just a lot. That’s a lot to ask of a team even this good against a team as young and shorthanded as the Spurs were tonight to
bring your A game. They’re pros too, you know, the Spurs randomly have the third best offense in the NBA this month. That’s has a lot to do with the fact they’re playing so frickin small right now because Wembe’s hurt. And they’re probably trying to get some development out of their younger ball handlers. Jared Allen took full advantage of that tonight. But they’re pros too and the Cavs are those are weary travelers.
Right now, man, like you said, this is a long stretch of a long crowded stretch of schedule that they’re on right now. So I think that’s it’s you don’t want to do this too much. But I think for this one in particular, you can if this happens again tomorrow night, by the way, I wouldn’t be surprised. Wouldn’t be surprised. You could chalk that up to to schedule and and just the long grind of the season.
Ethan Sands (03:55.394)
Demi, I absolutely agree. And we were talking in the media room after the game, everybody was trying to figure out who’s going to be on the injury report with the rest for tomorrow’s game against the Pistons, because that’s been the kind of trajectory that this Cavs team has been on. Obviously, Donovan Mitchell was in injury management against the Portland Trail Blazers. He wasn’t on that flight home, as he mentioned in his postgame interview when the Cavs got home on Wednesday at 6 a.m. But
they did get home and had to deal with that. And also the articulation of the fact that the Cavs were on the West Coast and they again lost three hours. And I don’t know if this is necessarily accurate, but I’m going to trust my mentions for one time. I probably shouldn’t, but I just got a message from somebody that says this Sunday will mark 19 straight games for the Cavs without being in the same city two times in a row.
over 35 days, around 14,619 miles road distance traveled around 800 miles per game. That’s insane, Jimmy. You talk about the wear and tear on the body. You talk about how just playing 82 games can wear on a team. But then you factor in the flight schedules. You factor in how there’s so many different aspects that can affect
how these guys are playing each and every game. And there were jokes being made in the locker room after the game. Like they were still on West Coast time when they arrived in Cleveland at Rockin’ Arena today. And they sure did play like it in the first half, right? They only had 54 points in the first quarter or first half, excuse me. And then they came out and dropped 32 points in a very long third quarter.
because of four different stoppages due to foul calls being moderated and seen if they are going to be upgraded to flagrant calls. Both of those were upgraded to flagrant calls, one against Deandre Hunter, a flagrant one, and then a flagrant two against Tristan Thompson in the third quarter or in the fourth quarter, excuse me, that had him ejected. And also we understand that the third quarter saw multiple different usages of
Ethan Sands (06:19.308)
the San Antonio Spurs challenges, both of them were used in the third quarter. Jimmy, we got to talk to Kenny Atkinson about the game, about how the stoppages affect the flow of the game. What did you take away from that?
Jimmy Watkins (06:36.928)
I was gonna say one more thing about the Cavs road trip here. This is something that Kenny’s been talking about a lot. Just think about like, I think sleep is like the secret superpower of life. Remember, think back to when you’re like really young or if you have a young kid and you’re getting fussy, your parents will just say, oh, you’re just tired. And then you your kid, you’re like, no, I’m you get mad. I’m not tired. I want to stay awake. You get even more grumpy, you are, you probably aren’t tired.
I’m watching the Cavs in the first half. It’s like, are you guys really just becoming a middling offense? They have been for parts of March, particularly against the Spurs team that defense, let’s just say is not the same, hasn’t been the same without Victor Webonyama. No, the Cavs are just tired. The Cavs are just tired. They’ve been trying to sleep on planes. They’ve been trying to sleep in beds that aren’t theirs. Are they in super nice hotels? Sure. But we’ve all slept in hotels. You wake up earlier, you wake up more often. It’s just different.
It’s just different. want to, I want to make that point. to the stoppages, I am so with Kenny on this. I, in some regards, I wonder, like I’m a, I’m a robot up guy in baseball. Like let’s just, we know where the strike zone is for every player. Let’s just, let’s just take the human error element out of it in that regard. But in this regard.
Where we, don’t, I think it’s a little bit harder for the robots to, I’m all, once we get there, I’m all for it, but we’re still figuring out the robot basketball ref situation until that point. Let’s let the humans make mistakes, man, because this is a very unique sport where the, it’s back, it’s back and forth, right? The offense and defense are interconnected. We talk a lot about these hard to quantify concepts such as rhythm.
whether that’s shooting rhythm or offensive rhythm or Kenny was saying coaches coaching a flow. You have a feel for the game as it pings back and forth. There’s a energy to the game. When you stop the game to check on whether, first of all, a flagrant foul, a flagrant foul.
Jimmy Watkins (09:04.553)
Here’s how you identify a flagrant foul. You look at it one time, you yeah, you really shouldn’t be doing that on a basketball court. We gotta give two free throws for that. If you have to look at a flagrant foul for any longer than five seconds, I’m gonna say it’s not a flagrant foul. That’s my personal opinion. But it goes way beyond flagrant fouls. It’s, whose finger, don’t wanna drive you crazy, whose fingertips did the ball touch last?
Even though if it might someone some one person might have caused the ball to go out of bounds. then as the after that person caused the ball to raise someone else’s fingertips, that didn’t happen tonight. But it happens all the time. Did the guy really did the player really step on the line out of bounds? Let I don’t know. Let’s ruin the end of a of a very exciting fourth quarter or second half with a 12 minute review. Let’s just stare at that play over and over again. We are we’re we’re talking about a sport.
it’s one basketball is my favorite sport is a sport where the greatest athletes in the world showcase unbelievable skill for an hour and 58 minutes and then for the final hour whatever two hours five minutes how long game is the final five to ten minutes five to twenty minutes we watch everyone shoot free throws and we watch the referees wear headphones and look at laptop computer screens
That’s crazy to me. That’s crazy to me. It’s a terrible viewing experience and it’s terrible for the players on the court. got Sam Merrill off to the side after the in the locker room because I was looking for him specifically because he’s one of these creatures of rhythm, right? Shooters are obsessed with where you throw them the ball. You’re shooting pocket. You want to have the ball in your shooting pocket.
They’re obsessed with every, you know, free throw routines, right? Everyone does the same thing before they shoot their free throws every time. Shooters are creatures of habit. They’re creatures of flow. They’re creatures of rhythm. And he, like Kenny, it was saying, let’s just get rid of it all together because the refs, as much as, as much as we are a, a hate, a ref hating culture. And sometimes I understand that because these, some rough try to make the game about them when it’s not even close.
Jimmy Watkins (11:31.06)
Not even supposed to be close to about that. They’re mostly pretty good, man. These guys are the game’s moving at a really high speed and more times than not, they’re getting the calls correct. Now, the flip side of this is that you have to be okay with a few 50-50 calls just being wrong. And I think particularly, and we’ve had this in the past decades ago, where we get to play off games.
series deciding playoff games. Calls can swing an outcome. would say there are hundreds of plays that make up a basketball game that carry equal weight, even if one play happens late in the game, carry equal weight to those outcomes. But we will be having these exhausting conversations about a foul call that shouldn’t have been or should have been called at the end of games. That’s our trade off. That’s what we have to
be okay with as a basketball viewing society. have the trade, our flow, our rhythm, our continued action. The end of basketball games, the end of close basketball games are supposed to be one of the most exciting things in sports. We’ve already gotten way too carried away with TV timeouts and coaches’ timeouts and now free plays and plus all the fouling that occurs right when you’re...
when you’re chasing a deficit up down three or down five or whatever it is, and you’re behind and the shot clock’s off, you got a foul. We have enough of it already. Please don’t make it worse by stopping the game in the third quarter four different times. Donovan kind of alluded to this at the game, like, it can kill your rhythm. It can change a game when you just completely start. It’s like a restart of the game. And it’s just...
unnatural man. We don’t need it. I don’t think we need it that much. And it’s a much bigger problem than it is a solution, in my opinion.
Ethan Sands (13:36.622)
Yeah, because the second half you talk about it and like they had three, they had two challenges used in the third quarter and the flagrant foul call on Deandre Hunter in the third quarter. Then you have the double flagrant or the flagrant two called on Tristan in the fourth quarter that needed to be reviewed. Like all of these took excess time away from the game, the flow. I completely agree with you. I’m not going to agree with you on the robot ups in baseball. That’s a completely different topic. We can talk about that offline.
But I do think that it’s important to note how these guys were able to somehow use that as fuel right Donovan Mitchell and Sam Merrill came out after the 8179 free throws that the that the San Antonio Spurs got to go up for like the first time in the quarter or whatever it was and Then they went on their own little run, right? Donovan Mitchell drove to the basket Sam Merrill
and got a kick and all those that lay up and then on the very next possession Sam Arrow came down and busted a three. And then to end the third quarter, Donovan Mitchell had a ferocious dunk. And I think that’s what the biggest thing is for this Cavs team is they’ve had momentum going into the fourth quarter, especially when they’re at home because obviously they are tied for the best home record.
At least in the Eastern Conference, maybe even in the NBA. But I just think when you talk about how this team has gained momentum, that’s the most important thing for how they’ve been able to pull out victories at home, on the road. And then again, as we mentioned, the Tristan Thompson injection, which was told to us after the game by Kenny Atkinson because of what he was told from the referees was due to the elbow on the rebound to the head of the opposing player, which
usually leads to an ejection anyway, even if it was accidental. So that led to Jared Allen coming back onto the floor. And Jimmy, I think it’s interesting because why would you start the fourth quarter with Tristan Thompson, right? The thought process, the rotations that we’ve talked about, the experimentation that Kenny Atkinson has done has been befuddling to a point. And then we’ve talked about closing games and how the Cavs and
Ethan Sands (16:02.088)
used that to come back and storm back and win games. And then he throws Tristan Thompson out for the first three minutes of the fourth quarter. And if Thompson doesn’t get ejected, if Tristan doesn’t get ejected, I don’t know if Jared Allen comes back into that game because he wasn’t playing well in the first three quarters of the game. So the ejection kind of forced Kenny’s hand because you go, OK, they have a smaller
team they have a smaller run they’re dudes in the five out lineup he started he didn’t immediately put jared in i don’t know if you noticed this jimmy but dean wade as soon as tristan was ejected dean wade was the five man he used kenny akinson used dean wade is the five man multiple times tonight and sure you have to give jared allen some kind of a breather with evan mobley being out tristan thompson had some good minutes throughout the game but go to your core four member
Right? And obviously this is again, a situation where the Cavs are not necessarily worried about winning games, but shouldn’t they be? I don’t know, Jimmy. I’m, I’m very on the cusp of this conversation where it’s like, I know that they don’t need to win games. I know that they want to experiment with lineups, but why not experiment with guys that are actually going to get minutes in the playoffs? Tristan Thompson, if everybody’s healthy, is not going to get minutes in the playoffs. What do you think about how
Kenny Atkinson’s hand was kind of forced. Do you think that Jarrett would have gotten minutes in the fourth quarter eventually? Or if Tristan would have kept playing well, do you think he would have ran with him for the remainder of the game?
Jimmy Watkins (17:38.932)
Jarrett was definitely gonna play. the thing about, you mentioned it earlier. That was not Dean Wade’s first stint at the five. Dean Wade played some five earlier in that game, and I think that was because Kenny wasn’t in love with the idea of giving Tristan Thompson major rotation minutes at this stage of his career, as Kenny said before the game. Tristan is multi-talented and...
He could do whatever he wants, whether that’s front office stuff or media, whatever that whatever it ends up being. But he’s a different player at the stage of his career. so Kenny was trying to get around using Tristan, then he realized he had to because the Cavs continue to get smashed on the offensive boards, particularly when one of the two big men are. All right. That’s a that’s a problem. I think that we’re going to be talking a little bit more about the rest of this. I mean, the Vichas Zubach is coming back, man.
They’re have to see that guy again. He absolutely torched them out in LA. So we’ll be talking more about that. I’m sure. I would say that Jarrett did an excellent job of responding to a little bit of a can he admit it? He cut his minutes a little bit because I think he was worried again. You gotta understand. Jared Allen is on this mission to play 82 games.
So what we said about the Cavs at large, the long season, end of a long road trip, body’s got to be tired. mean, Jared Allen’s got to be feeling that and the position that Jared Allen plays, Taking elbows, banging bodies, fighting for a rebound, screening guys who are running into him every night, hundreds of times a night, he’s banging into dudes, right? It’s a lot.
a lot for him and Kenny started to see that. So I think that he explained a little bit after the game, like he was trying to do J.A. as solid. He was starting to wonder like, is this 82 game mission that Jared is on starting to catch up with him a little bit? And you just got to you got to tip your cap to J.A. because he is the Cavs. The Cavs push him and pull him in so many different directions over the course of
Jimmy Watkins (20:05.78)
particularly this season, the season that’s all about Evan Mobley’s development, the season, the second half of the season that’s been defined by the acquisition of DeAndre Hunter, who we know is going to be super important in certain playoff matchups as a closing lineup. Allen not closing games at times. Jared Allen, mean, not that Jared Allen ever really was a focal point of the offense, but as de-emphasized as he’s ever been.
Not a lot of plays being run for Jared Allen, Like it’s, we’ll hit you on, it’s a pick and roll, we’ll hit you on a lob, we’ll hit you when you’re diving, but you kind of just have to take the game as it comes to you. And I think he managed, I think in general, he manages that incredibly well. And I think tonight he managed, mean, tonight is the other end of the spectrum, right? We get to the fourth quarter and the Spurs are, we’re talking about in the media room afterwards, like,
Why aren’t you playing Bismack-Beyonpo once J.A. starts killing you? I don’t know. I don’t think the Spurs are trying very hard to win games right now. think they’re trying to. I’ve got Cooper flag on my television right now. I think they’re trying to get as close to close to him in their living room as possible. But basically, the Spurs are going really small. That’s the offensive lineup that works best for them. And the Cavs are saying, well, OK, now I guess J.A. is going to be a bigger part of our offense. We’re going to if they’re going to switch, we’re going to throw them the ball a little bit more down low and
Ask him to make plays and he was incredible in that fourth quarter. mean, it’s not, it’s 19 fourth quarter points. It’s the highest fourth quarter point tally of his entire career. It’s not, mean, it’s again, it’s not your Donovan Mitchell fourth quarter takeover. You know, we’re not sizing up defenders off the dribble and pulling up and that kind of stuff. But J.A.
I’ve said this a couple times this year. I Jay’s touch around the rim has become unbelievable. He’s, mean, he’s always a great vertical lob guy, but he just doesn’t miss these little in-between floaters, which can sometimes be the toughest shots. And they’re contested a lot of the time too. He can do it with either hand and he’s starting to get a little bit more distance on those. That part of his game is really impressive. This is a guy who we’ve, he’s undersized too.
Jimmy Watkins (22:27.104)
So it’s not like I think part of the reason part of the calculus for the Spurs again, they’re not all the way trying to win this game. But the other thing is like, okay, Jared Allen’s not the scariest guy when it comes to punishing switches. That’s what Mitch Johnson’s thinking. That’s what he’s thinking in these types of situations. And the Cavs are like, oh yeah, well, we’re gonna we’re gonna let you know otherwise. We’re gonna let you know otherwise. And it’s just again, Jared Allen being de-emphasized the whole season and then tonight.
on a night where he doesn’t seem like he has it, all of a sudden he becomes the focal point of everything they’re doing, essentially, during the fourth quarter, during winning time. And he comes through and then some. I mean, he’s just, he’s one of the more malleable NBA players in the league right now. And malleability, versatility, go with the flow-ism.
I think is a super underrated skill in basketball.
Ethan Sands (23:29.356)
Mr. Consistent, Jimmy, Mr. Consistent. I mean, I think he took one. It reminded me of the little flow game that he had at the rim. It reminded me of how he was getting torched by Isaiah Hartenstein earlier this season. I was like, adding that to his bag, adding that to his game, getting better at it. And especially when the opposing defense is smaller than you, even though it might not be by a big margin. If they’re smaller than you, you can just tip over the top. You get the ball inside.
You don’t want to feel like banging too much to get to the rim. Okay. Turn in a little float. Nice. Nice. and I think the biggest thing for me when it comes to Jared and the two biggest plays that I loved from him tonight in the fourth quarter, one was an offensive rebound where he didn’t care who was around. If he grabbed the ball off the ground and said, okay, elbows going up, we going up and put it behind the back back scratcher and slammed it home. And then on the neck, on a few possessions later,
He was on the defensive end, gets a block, runs full court and gets rewarded and goes for a slam on the other end as well. Felt a little bit like what Evan Mobley has done this season for the Cavs when running the floor and creating defense offense. I think it was important, but I want to get to the two sides of the point guard battle or the guard battle for the Cavs tonight when it comes to their great performance.
from shooting guard, Donovan Mitchell, who had 25 points, eight rebounds and 14 assists, becoming just the fourth Cavalier over the last 40 years to record 25 plus points, eight plus rebounds and 14 plus assists in a single game, joining LeBron James, who has done it 11 times, Larry Nance Sr. and Andre Miller. So I just think when you talk about Donovan coming back into a game where
after being out against Portland, not having to take that flight back. I think the Cavs needed him to have one of those performances because everybody else was going to be so sluggish, going to be a little bit behind still on West Coast time. But Donovan 14 assists as a career high. I think it was really important to see him not only get his, get his buckets, especially because we know at the beginning of the game, Jimmy tweeted out a stat of how poorly he had been shooting the ball from the perimeter.
Ethan Sands (25:56.15)
earlier into the game and then he started finding a shot. But before then he was getting off the ball, creating for others and had nearly a triple double, right? He’s still that elusive first NBA career triple double for Zadam and Mitchell is still out there. We’re waiting to see it. But the other side of that coin is Darius Garland and how he struggled throughout this series, throughout this month, throughout all of this, especially in this game tonight.
Because we understand that Darius is one of the focal points of the offense. The Cavs need him to be great in the playoffs for them to have success. And tonight was another night where he simply was not good enough, right? We talk about a guy that is trying or was trying at the midway point of the season to go for 50-40-90. He had 10 points. He shot four of 15 from the field, which is 26.7%.
He was 207 from deep, which is 28.6%. He did have nine assists, which is great. But then you look back at the four turnovers in your life. Here we go again with the conversation of two to one. Is that good enough? But some of those turnovers were costly. And I think we got to take a bigger look at that. Jimmy, what do you think about Darius Garland’s play? What do you think about Donovan Mitchell’s play? And obviously it’s a give and take with these two guys, especially when they’re on the court together.
But what have you seen that you’ve noticed, especially about Darius during this month that could cause for worry?
Jimmy Watkins (27:34.508)
So the various thing I want to take in in segments. There was the initial at his b-ball ref page up. Let’s see here. The initial 10 games after he missed two with the hip contusion after the bad fall against New York. Right. And those were really, really ugly. We’re talking about
39 % from the field, 32 % from three, three, you know, assist turnover ratio looking honestly looking okay, but the shooting numbers were a little bit, not a little bit, a lot bit concerning because it’s okay. One is the hip bothering you? Is it directly causing this? Two, you also fell on your face there. We know his history with that.
Are we back to where, you know, we’re seeing the ghost of Christophe’s Pursingus in the pain again, just, you know, a big body that you run into. And now, now we have to wait for, for Darius to get comfortable again. Those were, and that’s, that’s scary times. That’s not, and this is not the time of the year where you can afford much patience with that sort of thing. Then, about midway through the road trip after he took another night off.
Maybe not so coincidentally, he started to look a little better, particularly in that Portland game, right? 27, eight and five, 10 to 16 from two, 10 to 16 from two. That’s what you want to see. Because again, the concern is, we in a situation where he’s getting a little hesitant because he took a big fall again? And now...
This game, I didn’t love it, obviously, but there’s two things, important pieces of context that I want to point out. Number one, Darius like everybody else on the team, long road trip, long season. Okay, that needs to be a part of this. Also, he’s being hounded by Stephon Castle, who’s probably gonna win Rook of the Year all night. 6′6, 6′9 wingspan.
Jimmy Watkins (30:01.236)
big guard guarding Darius. That’s what you’re going to see in the playoffs. It’s not an excuse and he’s a rookie. So you should have a little bit of a crafty craft advantage, right? But the dip, Stephon Castle is an incredible athlete. A lot of guys, Stephon Castle size, Darius can out quick. Stephon Castle was mirroring Darius a lot of times and it was so impressive. So impressive. think some of tonight is, you know,
Okay. We’re back on Darius watch. I don’t love how inconsistent I really don’t love how inconsistent he’s been. They need him to be the co-engine of this offense. One of the co-enjoys of this offense. We’ve talked about how important Evan Mobley is as well. know we’re going to just pencil Don in for 25, five and five on pretty good efficiency, right? That’s, I feel pretty good with that. but that’s important.
But I think the context is also important that we’ve kind of already been up down up with Darius a little bit. And this game, this swing in particular, I just think that we’re talking about two different things here. We’re talking about the stretch of games that Darius missed after or that Darius played after missing time with the hip condition and the scary fall. And that’s its own set of concerns. And then this long West coast road trip end of the season.
crowded schedule concern. think that can be a different thing. What I want to see from Darius and this Cavs team at large, because I think we’re probably, might be in for, put me down for at least one more weird performance between now and next week, like either tomorrow or Sunday against LA or even both. Totally possible. You go back to back and then a, a matinee game, you know, 36 hours later, whatever.
I could see one of those games being weird from the cat. might not look like themselves. I mean, tomorrow they’re going to be resting guys, but Sunday they might not look like themselves, even if they’re close to full strength, because this is a weird time of the year and they’re in a weird part of their schedule right now. So there’s just multiple factors with various on Donovan. I was getting real worried because the groin.
Jimmy Watkins (32:27.274)
The groin injuries, I’m like Kenny, the medical stuff is above my pay grade. That’s what Kenny likes to say. I’m the same way. But we know if you’ve ever had a groin injury or heard from someone who’s had a groin injury, they tend to linger. And Donovan had already missed two games with it. Then he came back and he wasn’t shooting very well. And I asked Kenny before the game about...
his, Hey, at least his free throws are upright. And Kenny didn’t take that question in the direction I thought he would. He was talking about the free throw times being up as more of like a strategic thing. Like maybe Donovan needs a final way to manufacture points because his shot isn’t falling. And frankly, to start tonight’s game, he didn’t look super explosive. He was doing a good job setting up his teammates, but he wasn’t able to get to the rim the way he usually did. He didn’t look as quick twitchy.
As he usually does, it was noticeable. was noticeable. He some threes. I liked the dunk late in the fourth. It seemed like his body loosened up as the game went along. I’m still gonna be watching this going forward. But to me, the story with Donovan is just how many ways a superstar can impact the game. I think if Donovan scored half the, you know, not half, but if Donovan had 18 to 20 points instead of 25 tonight,
I would still be blown away by his performance career. I 14 assists. Some of the passes he was making, dude, I was just cackling in my seat. mean, he had the one the other night where he threw it across the court between two dudes. mean, like, like he’s throwing a dig route, like he’s rearing back, throwing it across the middle, knowing he’s to squeeze it between two to own defenders, throwing a fastball. Unbelievable. And it was a live dribble pass as well.
He’s, he’s mid dribble. Let me just throw a bullet into the corner, right in the shooting pocket for three. That pass was crazy. He had another one of those tonight. He also had, man, I’m trying to remember who he threw this to. It was early in the first half. meant to watch these back, but I got caught up transcribing before we recorded. was, it was one, there’s another bullet pass. There was the, the pass to Isaac where he flew through lame and
Jimmy Watkins (34:48.658)
moved the defense with the eyes and then threw the drop down to through the dropped or the drop down to Isaac who then posterized some poor spiritual player. I don’t remember which one. I think it might’ve been champagne actually. And then there’s the one where Donovan like kind of two hand side bounce past it between a couple of offenders to someone for I think a wing, a three from the wing. And I was just like, one, how did you see that?
to how did you get that through like, oh my goodness, beautiful passes that this man is making. You know the funny thing about it is after the game, I asked him about that, I asked Donovan about that because early in his career, earlier in his career, one of the knocks against Donovan was that he didn’t see the game past the first, he’s always been a really good player. He’s always been able to get his teammates open looks, but like,
Kenny compared some of his passes tonight to LeBron, where it’s like this chess master thing, where if the defense moves an inch, even if they don’t think he’s looking, he’s looking, he sees it he’s throwing the pass. And early in his career, I think it was a thing where he could, once he beats a man and then the defense reacts to him, then he knows where the ball is supposed to go. But he’s starting to make some of those, those plays, not starting to, he’s been doing it since he’s been with Cleveland last year, had the highest assist rate.
of his career, highest assists per game of his career. And I just think watching him this year, he’s seeing the game at a different level, but he made the point when I asked him about it, he cares more. mean, the pretty passes are the wow passes, but he made the point about stacking the simple reads, right? Because when you’re as good as he is, as athletic as he is, you can kind of do whatever you want on the basketball court, right? Like Donovan can get past his man.
Anytime you want, Donovan can get any kind of get any spot on the court. wants he can whatever shot he can think of. He can get there. He can take it. So it becomes a challenge for, I mean, the mere mortals on this. is very hard to relate to becomes a challenge to modulate your shot selection and your score pass balance. Right. And
Jimmy Watkins (37:15.602)
Donovan literally said, it gets boring. It gets boring. Making the correct read over and over again. I beat my man. Someone helps. And I make that pass. Defense cheats. The Spurs were throwing some heavy, heavy nail looks. heavy nail help at Donovan before he even got started sometimes. Donovan recognized that, made the right pass. He didn’t, he doesn’t need to do that, but he’s doing it over and over again. And he was saying,
The more you stack those kind of plays in his mind, that’s what makes a really good playmaker. I think that’s fascinating because it’s kind of the inverse of what I came into it thinking he’s making these passes. And I know he can, he said he’s always made those bullet, you know, the live dribble bullet passes. That’s his, I think Kenny was talking about his Donovan’s baseball background. There are just things that he’s seeing now that are really, really high level. And I think that’s a really encouraging.
I’m still watching the groin. I’m still, you know, some of the, some of the finishes that he didn’t make tonight, he left them a little short. He’s not as, doesn’t look as dynamic. Again, fourth quarter dunk, a good sign, but early on didn’t look as dynamic as we’re used to seeing. I’m still watching that. But the passing was incredible. and that with a team that has as many weapons, catch and shoot weapons on this team as the Cavs does, as the Cavs do.
That is such a massive step for Donovan to be taking.
Ethan Sands (38:52.994)
And I think it’s important, right? Because this is a team that needs his facilitating when there’s games like in the playoffs where Darius might get played off the floor, right? If he’s having the kinds of nights like tonight where you don’t necessarily want to lean on him until the fourth quarter so he can turn into the fourth quarter, Darius Garland or whatever you want to call him, Clutch Player of the Year is something else that we’ve talked about as well.
Jimmy Watkins (39:17.504)
See, you said that pretty casually just now. Do you really think there are gonna be moments in the... I’m not saying that this is like a crazy... It might be a little... Okay, it’s an extremely... I don’t think most Cavs fans... That’s what I’m saying. I don’t think most Cavs fans are thinking that there’s gonna be situations where Darius Garland might be riding a little pine in the playoffs. Do you think that’s on the table?
Ethan Sands (39:43.03)
I don’t think necessarily like that’s where I was going necessarily. think it’s more like if say again, this goes back to what we were talking about on the last podcast about playoff picture, like say the Cavs get to play Orlando again in the first round, right? So they’re hounding him defensively with Cole Anthony or Anthony Black, right? And he’s being taken away. He’s not in a rhythm. I think Kenny might extend his time on the
on the bench if needed because Kenny has empowered these guys off the bench and rotation players to be able to step up in minutes like that. Say Ty Jerome enjoys the physicality a little bit more than Darius Garland against these said teams. you go and you say the Cavs end up playing the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals. Derek White obviously drew Holliday, another guy that could be hounding Darius Garland. I think those are situations
where if he’s not having that level of success, the level of success that we’ve become accustomed to this year and a year that we can, we could, or we were saying was one of the best in his entire career. I don’t know if we’re still saying that. The numbers might back that up. have to do a deeper dive now, but I definitely think there’s been a shift and the physicality is another thing, but I would not be.
doing my job if I didn’t say that there is a possibility for Darius Garland to get played off the floor if he doesn’t match up to the physicality. Because sure, we can say he’s been doing the stuff in the weight room. He’s changed his habits. He’s done all of these things. And we’ve seen it at times this year, but he’s still been attacked defensively. He still have games where it feels like he’s getting overmatched, where he’s getting hounded. And the full court pressure has gotten to him, especially if nobody’s in the back court.
setting him screens. I think it’s interesting and a dynamic that I’m going to keep an eye on as we get to the playoffs. But again, this is a Darius Garland that is better than he was last year, but is still struggling in the latter half of the season when we talk about his health. Last year he was coming back from a fractured jaw, dealing with the passing of his grandmother, all these things. Now he’s dealing with a potential still lingering hip contusion, maybe something else with his face. But I do think
Ethan Sands (42:06.794)
It’s harder to make distinctions about his play because we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes as to last year, where we knew everything he was going.
Jimmy Watkins (42:17.15)
I mean, I think it’s a fair point to raise. do. Because we’ve seen in the playoffs when it’s ugly. Kenny seems like the kind of coach who’s more willing and given the season he’s put together, more empowered to make unpopular decisions, let’s say. And even cutting Darius Minnis’
Darius’s minutes in any regard would be an unpopular decision unconventional decision But I just think that’s a really fascinating cop if we get there if we get there I do I do think that Like I’m interested to see what a lot Danny Cunningham said this out of the game. I think it’s a good point from the inside shot or it’s the inside shot right? Yeah inside shot on sub stack and He was saying these calves are gonna look really great next Wednesday when they finally get a few days off
Be interested to see what guys like Darius are looking like against the Knicks in that spot. But that the point you raised, think is really interesting from a Kenny, Kumbaya Kenny standpoint philosophically, because Kenny knows how much he needs Darius down the road. Kenny, Kenny giving confidence is Kenny giving Kenny giving guys rope, right?
The 10 to 12 man rotation this year, that’s what that’s been about. The Sam Merrill, good minutes from Sam Merrill tonight because Sam Merrill has been getting consistent run this year, right? Max Struths, getting some good Max Struths minutes these days because Kenny’s trusted him when Max Struths wasn’t shooting it super well, right? He knows that these things ebb and flow and he knows that if you,
give up on a guy that comes around to get you. Now, we’re not even close to that with the Darius Gonn situation, but like I’m telling you, any slight cut in minutes, any slight perceived demerit is very, very precious with a player of Darius’s caliber and needs to be managed just so. So I just think that’s a, I don’t think it’s an insane
Jimmy Watkins (44:41.28)
concept to consider given what we’ve seen in the past given the kind of matchups they might see in the playoffs It’s again. It’s it’s what you said about he’d be sitting on the bench a little longer at some at certain points. I don’t think we’re ever gonna get to the point where Kenny I mean unless it’s like Game six of the finals or game seven of a boss is like we just got to win this and you just have to understand I don’t think like Darius is sitting
entire halves of a fourth quarter or anything like that. We’re not there. But the idea that he might an extended stint here and know, tied rooms got to go in tonight there. So we’re going to stick with him a little bit longer. I don’t think that’s crazy. But I still think that that’s a really tough situation for Kenny to manage given how much he knows he needs Darius down the road and how he treats the players that he knows he needs most of the time.
Ethan Sands (45:13.132)
No, no, I think,
Ethan Sands (45:37.902)
Yeah, and again, I think Kenny continuously goes back to Darius in the fourth quarter at least, like at minimum, he’s going to go back to Darius in the fourth quarter. We’ve seen it this season where there have been stretches where he’s held out Darius a little bit longer. Sometimes he’s held out Donovan a little bit longer. There have been times where we’ve wanted him to hold out Donovan a little bit longer, Darius a little bit longer based on the performances that they’ve had, but he’s gone back to them because again,
Like you mentioned, they need them in the playoffs to be confident, healthy, ready, and have the utmost respect for the game that’s playing. I think the other thing that was mentioned tonight that I think is where I wanted to end today’s podcast and maybe something that I write for tomorrow, depending on everything else, is that this Cavs team, as Max Truss said, it starts top down. They’re unselfish. The selflessness
of this team has been their calling card all year long. And it starts with Donovan, Darius, Evan, and Jarrett understanding that there are times where they’re not the best option. They’re not the best answer for a certain situation, right? They can be, but Jarrett Allen is a big portion of that. But Jarrett Allen is a big guy that has not played in every fourth quarter. He’s never closed every fourth quarter, right? But Evan Mobley is a big guy that understands that if there’s
options or scenarios where Jared Allen’s the better option or Deandre Hunter or Dean Wade, that Kenny’s gonna go to that, right? And I think obviously it trickles down more so to the rotation players. And that’s where I’m getting with this. Max Struz, Ty Jerome, Jovante Green, Isaac Okoro. Kenny Atkinson mentioned all these players after today’s game talking about back to Portland when Ty Jerome at 25 points didn’t start.
didn’t play too much in the fourth quarter. Max Strews the same way, he had 20 points, but in tonight’s game they were without Ty, they were without Evan, they were without Jaylen Tyson, and also without Tristan Thompson in the fourth quarter. So now you go to Evan Mobley, you go to Dean Wade, you go to Deandre Hunter, but in today’s game Isaac Okoro was huge in that first half and keeping the Cavs close. He was playing great minutes defensively, he had points
Ethan Sands (47:58.786)
He was getting into the transition buckets. had a corner three that we love to see from, Isaac Acora. That’s one of the biggest things when we talk about the playoffs and him getting minutes is him knocking down those triples. But the other portion of this conversation is Kenny Atkinson being like, yeah, some of these guys should have, or could argue to get more minutes. They could be upset that they’re not getting these time this time, but they also understand.
That’s a bigger picture thing that I will experiment with some of these guys in throughout the game. But when it comes down to clutch minutes, then they’re going to go back to what they know is best. They’re bread and butter. And again, this is a conversation that kind of goes back to what happened with J.B. Becker staff last year or in years past, right? How he always went back to the starting unit to start the fourth quarter because he understood that they needed
their egos or whatever. This team is not that. Again, Tristan Thompson started the fourth quarter tonight. So I think there are, there’s a, this is a completely different team from what it was in the past. And I do not think it is out of the question for these star players to have their minutes cut or their minutes lowered a little bit or their minutes ramped up depending on the situation. Donovan Mitchell played 35 minutes tonight because he was great.
Right? Darius Garland played 30 minutes tonight. There have been nights in the past where Darius has played 26 minutes. Right? So we understand that it’s not just these big guys and it’s not just these rotation guys. It’s a team. And I think that’s the most unique thing about this group is that they have an understanding throughout everything. It’s not just one section and one section. It’s we are going to do this together. Everybody has the understanding and we’re going to trust.
and believe in not only everybody, but our coach who has empowered all of us to make the right decision when it’s needed. And in these situations, it’s experimentation and figuring out what is going to help us most as we get ready for the playoffs. And that’s something that Max Struce said when he was mic’d up today and we got to reiterate with him after the game. said, you gotta be playing your best basketball going into the playoffs. You don’t just want to wake up when it’s time to wake up.
Ethan Sands (50:23.106)
We need to start figuring out what it is that we need to do to play our best basketball and be our best selves going into April and May. I think everybody in here knows that and got that message and we’re gonna try our best to figure that out for these last nine games. That’s all that’s left to me. It’s nine games to figure out what this team is, who they are. And Kenny Atkinson has admitted that it is going to be a tough decision when it comes to shrinking the minutes
of the rotation, picking the right pieces and picking the right spaces, but also knowing that if it comes to a break glass at emergency notice, he has almost everybody at his disposal to say, Hey, okay, this player is not playing well. We’re going to take him out for two minutes, three minutes. Get him a breather. See how you get in there. Gervonta Green is a great example of that. Tonight he played just eight minutes, but he was impactful tip outs.
Rebounds we’re talking about fast break transition opportunities sure he doesn’t have to take four shots when he’s in there But if you’re a veteran you’re 30 plus years old I would do the same thing if I got into the game for eight minutes So I just think it’s about what this team is able to do and also understanding that this team knows exactly who they are and they have a different level of trust in everybody on this roster
Jimmy Watkins (51:48.606)
that’s well said. think that’s that sounds that sounds like the ideal basketball utopia that you just described. That’s not what’s coming in the playoffs. There will be no ideal basketball utopia. I just did this. I did a little exercise in my notes app. This is how the minutes are going to mostly go in the playoffs. There’s three levels to this, think. Level one.
Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley. We’re going to want to play those guys. If I’m Kenny Atkinson, we’re going to want to those guys as much as we possibly can. Every single night. Unless some, unless Evan’s in foul trouble or unless Donovan, if it would knock on wood again, Donovan’s groin acts up or something like that. You want to those guys as much as possible. think Kenny wants Darius Garland to be in that group as well. I’m not sure he’s given what we’re seeing right now.
He’s in that group, but I think in an ideal world, if the Cavs are rolling, I think Kenny wants Darius Garland in that same group. Play him as much as you possibly can. Next level, one man by himself, Jared Allen. Kind of matchup dependent. Probably going to play 25 to 30 minutes at least though, most nights. Very important. He’ll start games most of the time with Evan Mobley. Just put the clamps on people.
Then when Evan needs a break, Jared comes in. You don’t lose anything. You don’t lose as much with the rim protection. Awesome. know how that goes. Mr. Dependable, that’s your level two.
Maybe in certain, think Deandre Hunter, you could talk me into being in that tier as well. But I think most of everyone else is in this weird mishmash of where it kind of depends, man. It kind of depends. And I think like if we could stack them in different, I think Max Druse, it’s cut above a lot of these bench guys. I Ty Jerome’s cut above a lot of these bench guys.
Jimmy Watkins (53:58.74)
Wouldn’t shock me if they get shuffled around though and we catch them on the end of the bench at the end of games in the playoffs, What you said about breaking glass in case of emergency, we’ve talked about this on the pod before. That’s Kenny’s whole theory. If I give these guys, if I empower them during the regular season, they’ll be there for me when I need them in the playoffs, even if I have benched them.
even if I have taken them out of the rotation at that point. I think that’s a sound theory. I’m just not sure it always works in practice. It’s just inescapable. This is humanity. This is humanity. Because it’s not just... I’m not saying that people are gonna be mad at Kenny. We’re at like... Everyone’s willing to sacrifice for the greater good, especially when you’re winning. don’t think... People who aren’t playing, even though it’s like, if I had a good coral right now, it’s like, man, we had...
two rotation guys out, I played awesome, I still can’t close the game, damn man, damn. But I think he’s, but like, it’s like a damn we’re deep. I think he’s good natured about it. That I’m not like, there’s there’s nothing, there’s no like ill will there, I don’t think. But I’m just saying like,
from a rhythm perspective, confidence perspective. I get it. Kenny’s trying to give them all of that now, but inherently some of it goes away when you don’t play as much one night or you don’t play, forbid, some of these guys aren’t going to play at all. Guys who are playing, someone who played a lot tonight is not going to play, get DNP’d during multiple playoff games.
because when everyone’s healthy, that’s hard. That’s a hard thing to do. That’s a hard thing to come to grips with as a professional basketball player. A good professional basketball player. There are a lot of good professional basketball players who are a part of the conversation who are going to play more limited minutes at times, who are going to not play at times and who are not a lot of them. Most of the guys, most of the good rotation basketball players on this team.
Jimmy Watkins (56:23.048)
are not going to play when they want to play the most, which is when they close games. Because as we’ve already established, we’ve got two guys who always need to be in that spot. Three guys, Darius is always going to close games.
Jared Allen, I think it’s a little bit matchup dependent, like Kenny has his druthers, he’s already told us that when he’s trying to protect a lead, he wants J.A. out there with Ev, and I think the Cavs would prefer to be ahead at the end of fourth quarters. Now you have the entire rest of the roster. That’s one for one spot and plenty of guys who are deserving of it, and it’s status thing. And with status comes confidence or with confidence comes status. However, you want to break that up.
It’s gonna get weird. It’s gonna get weird and it’s gonna get hard for some of these guys. And I’m I’m fascinated to see how it unfolds. One more rotation note I will make. I really like Javante Green as a change of pace guy. But it seems to me, the early returns are that Javante Green, Kenny puts Javante Green in the game when Kenny’s mad.
when the Cavs are not playing well, or they look at a little slow. It’s like, know what, Givante, go be the Tasmanian devil out there. Muck it up a little bit. Fly around. Tip an offensive rebound that shouldn’t get tipped. Deflect a pass that shouldn’t get deflected. Remind, wake up your teammates a little bit. just seems like Kenny’s like, I’ve had it with this. Here goes Givante Green. He’s going to change the entire spirit of this game, and he does.
And he does. Now he’s the kind of guy, he’s a veteran who’s done this, Donovan said this after the game. He’s kind of had this role multiple times during his career. So I think he’s the perfect kind of guy to be your break glass in case of murder or like, I don’t like the way this looks, throw him in there. The rest of these dudes are like, have been pretty steady rotation guys for most of their careers or when they haven’t been it’s because they’re not playing well.
Jimmy Watkins (58:37.728)
And like that and a lot of like the youth of this team. That’s a hard thing to accept when you’re in the supposed prime years of your career. There’s just a lot, a lot of confounding factors when it comes to breaking down the playoff rotation. It’s not as simple as we all love each other and we’re willing to sacrifice to do whatever it is when that’s true. I’m sure. But like what happens when you don’t play and you lose? You’re probably going be a little bit mad.
You’re probably gonna be a little bad. You know, I know that because it fricking happened last year with JB Bickerstaff who had his faults as a coach and he didn’t give guys enough rope sometimes. like, Kenny’s gonna be cutting rope pretty soon here. And I can’t wait to see what happens when he does.
Ethan Sands (59:27.69)
And I agree with you, Jamay, and I don’t want to harp on this any longer than we have to because we’re almost an hour in, but man, I think you make a great point about the four guys, core four, needing minutes in the playoffs. Obviously that’s what Kenny Atkinson will likely lean on for a majority of it, but that fifth spot, right, we’ve talked about likely the best lineup is including DeAndre Hunter.
with those guys. And yet, the Cavs have not played Deandre Hunter with the Core Four at length. Matter of fact, I pulled up the lineups for a five-man-out lineup, five-player lineup for the Cleveland Cavaliers, and I’ve seen a whole lot of numbers thrown out, but I can only look at and see what I have in front of me. For the 2024-2025 season,
Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Deandre Hunter, Darius Garland, and Evan Mobley have played 29 minutes together. 29 over a stretch of 7 games. They have a net rating of 22.6. The defensive rating, when all 5 of them are on the floor together, is 87.7. And I get it, I understand, there are guys that are going to be out-
due to rest, injury management, all these things for the remainder of the season. So it’s going to be even harder for them to get minutes with Deandre Hunter alongside all of the members of the core four, right? But the fact of the matter is if this is going to be technically your best lineup, and this is going to be technically your best go-to lineup in the final 12 minutes of the game against the Boston Celtics, against teams like the Indiana.
Pacers, Detroit Pistons if you have to match up with them in the playoffs, right? Because they’re lengthy, they’re fast, they’re quick, they have size, they can spread the floor. Deandre Hunter has generally been the answer to the questions with those on the floor. Obviously, if Kenny Atkinson goes away from Evan Mobley and throws out Max Druss alongside him, you can go with a lineup with Darius, Donovan, Max, Deandre, and Evan Mobley. Sure, that works too, but...
Ethan Sands (01:01:52.512)
If you want to continue to have the size on the floor and Jared Allinger guy and Evan Mobley is on the floor alongside them, the best option so far and what we’ve seen has been Deandre Hunter. And I want to just look at this really quickly while we’re here. The five man lineup of Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Max Drews, Darius Garland, and Evan Mobley has a net rating of 11.5 per a hundred possessions.
Which is great, right? That’s a great offensive rating. But they have a defensive rating of 104.2 and an offensive rating of 115.6, which is significantly different from the 110.3 offensive rating and 87.7 defensive rating, right? From when Deandre Hunter is on the floor with the core four. So I just think it’s interesting that Kenny Atkinson continuously does not or goes out of his way.
not to have De’Andre on the floor with him when there’s the opportunity for that. And obviously, I think if I’m making my bets for tomorrow’s game against the Detroit Pistons, I’m betting that Darius Garland is going to get a rest night so they can be ready for next week against the Knicks and the Matinee game on Sunday against the Los Angeles Clippers.
on ESPN, you want to have everybody ready and healthy for that game, so I think you rest tomorrow against the Pistons, Darius Garland is the guy that I would think, but still, if you’re going to tell me that the lineup with Deandre Hunter is so good, and you’re gonna tell me all the time that Deandre Hunter is the guy that you guys went and got for these certain scenarios, at Boston, why not use him more?
if with the other guys that you know are gonna get minutes in the playoffs.
Jimmy Watkins (01:03:53.28)
I’m with you in this sense. again, this we’re talking a small sample size with that lineup. I think it can be a good lineup. Um, but I’m with you in this sense. Kenny’s Kenny’s philosophy on this has been we gotta play Deandre at the four more so that we can get our other wings. Cause they’ve got a bunch of them that Kenny wants to play again, long game, empower the wings. So if I have to not play one of them, they will still be ready.
You they’ll still be locked in. They’ll still have confidence. So he’s using DeAndre as like a, his using DeAndre’s positional versatility as a chess piece to get other guys minutes. And I don’t think it, doesn’t need to be an either or thing with DeAndre and Jared Allen. Right. I agree with you. I think that lineup can work as this, but I think that, I think I’ve made this point before on the pod. think he’s playing with Evan. He’s playing with Darius. He’s playing with Donovan.
The one he’s really not playing with is Jarrett. And Jarrett’s, as we’ve already discussed, the most malleable player on the team, if not in the entire league. So I’m not that concerned about that part. The other thing I would say, sometimes you like to keep a little sum up your sleeve for the playoffs. Sometimes little lineups that don’t get played a ton during the regular season, you see a little bit more of them in the playoffs when it’s time to really go. I would not be surprised if
You know, before a pivotal game, whatever. If the Cavs feel like they need to make a starting lineup change at any point of a series or even just to start the playoffs, like Kenny’s like, OK, we’re making a statement now. Boom, this is Bam. There’s my Deandre Hunter card. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s a move that that happens, but those are just two things to keep in mind when we’re talking about it. I think you have a point. I think you have point.
Ethan Sands (01:05:47.406)
And I think that’s fair. And I also think it’s fair for everybody that wants to say that it is great to have DeAndre Hunter and Ty Jerome come off the bench at the same time as a duo because of their connectivity, because of what they did in Virginia. And I am a part of that group. I love them in the second unit together. Right. But in the same sense, if Ty Jerome’s not going to get a whole lot of minutes in the playoffs, which we know is up for
disparity we don’t know what kennyak is going to do with tigeroam especially because tigeroam doesn’t have any playoff experience. We don’t know how he’s gonna acclimate into the playoffs for the first time especially on a team that is hoping to get to the mba finals not just try and win one playoff series or one playoff game or anything like that like so I get all of those things I just think when there’s opportunities especially to close out games when deandre hunter is
playing out of his mind to play him alongside the core four. I’m not even necessarily saying at this point, because I kind of think it’s too late to just throw him into the starting lineup, because that would throw Max Struz all the way off in my opinion. But I do think that having him in certain lineups to start the second half, maybe to start the second quarters and start the fourth quarter, whatever you want to say, I just think they need to get him as many minutes alongside the core four.
especially when he’s playing in games where they’re all available on the court together. I just think that’s simple because DeAndre Hunter is clearly one of the best players on this CAS team and is primed to be the reason they do or do not get out of the East. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talks podcast. But remember to become a CAS insider and interact with
Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14-day free trial or visit cleveland.com slash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up, stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris, and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.