CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, hosts Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor discuss the Cavs’ roster decisions amidst salary cap challenges, and potential trade scenarios involving Darius Garland.
Takeaways:
Darius Garland’s trade value is significant in the current market.
Jalen Suggs could provide defensive strength for the Cavs.
The Cavs are committed to their core but may consider trades.
The importance of mental toughness in playoff performance is highlighted.
Trade scenarios must consider the long-term vision of the team.
The Cavs are approaching a championship-or-bust mentality.
The Sacramento Kings and Orlando Magic, both in need of a starting point guard, could be top suitors for Darius Garland.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me as always, Chris Fedor. And we’re coming to you after. Tyrese Halliburton has the Indiana Pacers one win away from the NBA Finals after. After their victory in game four over the New York Knicks, where they took him down 130-121. And Tyrese Haliburton went off 32 points, 15 assists, 12 rebounds, five triples, four steals, and maybe most impressively, zero turnovers. The only game with 30, 15 on zero turnovers and in playoff history. Chris, I know you want to gloat and tell us you knew this whole time that Tyrese was one of the better guards in the league. I mean, and I don’t think it was surprising earlier on in the season. And as I pointed on this podcast before, I was only, let’s not say, irritated, but not appeased by his jump shot. What do you think other teams are starting to learn and figure out about Tyrese Haliburton and. And maybe about the overrated chance that we heard in Rocket arena just a few weeks ago?
Chris Fedor: I think it just kind of depends on who you’re talking about. I think coaches around the NBA, Ethan, have mad respect for Tyrese Haliburton. I think they understand the way that he can manipulate the game. I think they understand the way that he can control and dictate pace and the way that he has fueled an offense that has been one of the best in the NBA for the last three years. But I think players are jealous. I do. I think them making him the quote, unquote, most overrated player voting for him that way. I think it was a combination of lunacy. I think it was a combination of jealousy, and I think it was a combination of just hate. I think he’s an easy guy to dislike because he is mouthy, because he does gesticulate, because he can get under your skin with some of the things that he does. And it can be very, very difficult to see deal with him. And he has like a flamboyance to him. He has a flair to him, and it makes him an easy target. So I think that’s where it was coming from when you talk about players and why they voted on him. The other thing is like to kind of take you behind the scenes because I’ve seen these surveys that are anonymous. I’ve seen them conducted firsthand and oftentimes some of these questions Just come out of nowhere for players, and they don’t really have an answer, but whoever is doing the reporting. And there are so many different people that write for the Athletic, and there’s so many different people that are a part of this, and they just kind of, like, spread it out. And whatever locker room you can go into, whatever team that you cover or if you’re there for, like, a national game and there’s a national athletic writer, they try and compile these things as much as possible and spread it out amongst all these writers so that you can reach a bunch of different demographics and you can reach a bunch of different teams and a bunch of different players and stuff like that. So I have seen these things done, and sometimes these players are caught off guard that they say, I don’t know. I don’t have an answer for it. And at that point, the writer does what, you know, he should be doing, and he says, well, you know, some of the other guys have said Tyrese Halliburton. Some of the other guys have said, Zion Williamson. Some of the other guys have said Trey Young. What about one of those guys? And then the player’s like, okay, I’ve got somebody in mind. I’ve got a couple of choices there, and let me pick one that’s already been mentioned. So I don’t know if that’s what happened here. I’m just saying I’ve seen that. I’ve seen this for the last couple of years with one of the writers from the Athletic doing these kinds of surveys, and I’m having a conversation, like, in the locker over or two lockers over, or I’m in the locker room because I’m always in the locker room when it comes to the Cavs. So that. That might be part of it, but. But I also do think there’s, like, a little bit of jealousy when it comes to Tyrese Haliburton. I do think there’s a little bit of he becomes an easy target because he’s not the most likable player in the NBA. Like, Donovan Mitchell is likable. Everybody knows that. There are other guys around the NBA that are just, like, more likable in terms of play style, in terms of how they carry themselves, in terms of their ability to just get on the nerves of another opponent. All of that, I think, ties into it. But if you think NBA coaches are looking at Tyrese Halliburton saying, like, he’s an easy guy to game plan for, or he doesn’t manipulate our defense. He doesn’t change our defensive coverages like you’re out of your mind. Because all of these coaches that have to go up against Tyrese, especially in a seven game playoff series, are staying up late at night trying to devise certain things to slow down this machine that is the Indiana offense and he’s at the head of it for sure.
Ethan Sands: And I think when you talk about the Cavs and you talk about a point guard that has been able to manipulate defenses and you talk about a guy like Darius Garland who also has those capabilities, I know you took to subtext to talk and discuss with our subscribers about a potential trade for Darius Garland. And, and I know you also went into detail about the reasoning behind this maneuver and this potential move because of the second apron, because of his contract and the potential viability of who and what they could get back in return for someone like Darius Garland would be helpful for them. Right. So take me into your thought process about that when it comes to Darius Garland and. And then maybe we’ll even get into a conversation about who you would rather build a team around currently, when it comes to Tyrese and Darius.
Chris Fedor: I just think the Cavs are at a point, Ethan, where they’ve got some hard decisions to make because of the realities of the salary cap and the realities of the second apron. There are three potential second apron teams in the NBA. It’s Boston, it’s Phoenix, and it’s Cleveland. And you know, sometimes that just becomes life when trying to be a contending team, and sometimes that just becomes your reality when you do a really, really good job drafting and a really good job trading and you have to at some point resign all these guys and keep them all together. So I think we have to start here in everything that we know about the Cavs and everything that I’ve been able to gather over the last weeks or so. It feels like the Cavs are committed to the core four. It feels like the Cavs believe in those four guys and they’re just trying to find the best way to to surround those guys with the right pieces to compete for a championship. And I think that’s an understandable way for Kobe Altman in the front office to look at this. Because when you feel good about the talent that you have, you have to be really, really careful about parting with any of that in saying that all four don’t have to stay. There’s no rule that says all four have to stay. Like Boston. Boston picked the Jays and then they figured it out around them, right? It hasn’t been the same core like the same two pieces have been there, but the other parts have changed. They got rid of Marcus Smart, who was like the heart and soul of their team, because they thought that was going to make them better. And it did and it won them a championship. But it’s like all of the other components around Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum have all changed over the last couple of years. Those two are the Untouchables. I think when we’re talking about the Cavs, like, yes, they prefer to keep the core four together and see if they can build around them and find the right pieces around them and see if there’s a viable way to do that given the limitations that come with being a luxury tax team and a second apron team. In saying that, I think the two Untouchables are Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. And like, I have been getting the sense that like the Cavs would be more willing to entertain and at least consider possibilities for Jared Allen and Darius Garland than they have in the past. Now that all comes down to it’s got to be the right deal. It’s got to be the right pieces coming back that the Cavs believe would be a step forward as opposed to just a lateral move or a step back. Like, I don’t think they’re in a situation where they’re saying to themselves, we gotta shed this salary. Like, we need to find a dumping ground for Darius Garland’s contract or Jared Allen’s contract and the reason why. And like everybody always asks me, like, why do you bring up Darius? Why don’t you talk more about Jared Allen? Because I think the package of players that the Cavs could get back in return for Darius is going to be higher. There’s a need for a player like him. The point guard market in free agency is non existent, basically. You know, Kyrie Irving’s probably going to go back to Dallas and James Harden’s probably going to go back to the Clippers. And now you’re talking about like the second tier guys. So there aren’t a bunch of teams with money in free agency, there aren’t a bunch of great free agent point guards available. So if you’re a team like Orlando, if you’re a team like Sacramento and you’re trying to improve your point guard spot, you’re going to call Cleveland, you’re going to call Atlanta with Trae Young, maybe you kick the tires on Chris Paul as like a trusted wiley veteran that you can bring to your group that you think can like stabilize some things or provide some level of steadiness at the point guard spot that you just haven’t had. Maybe you’re calling Charlotte and you’re seeing what it would take for Lonzo Bolt. You know, that’s what you do. You start to weigh all of your different options. And the reason why I don’t bring up Jarrett Allen as much, because the package of players that you get back for Jarrett, like, it’s just not going to make that much of a difference for this team. And I don’t know that it’s going to make them significantly better. Is Dalton Connect and Rui Hachimura for Jarrett Allen going to make this team that much better? Those are the kinds of deals that you’re talking about for Jared. Now Darius is a little bit different. If you’re a team that can go out and you can look at some potential trades. Okay, now we’re talking about what would the Cavs get back in return? And again, I’m not saying that the Cavs are going to go down this road, but they’re going to get to a point where they’re going to have to balance out the roster a little bit more than what it is and they’re going to have to balance the checkbook a little bit more than what it is. Nobody that you’re going to get back is going to be Darius in terms of pedigree, in terms of talent, in terms of he’s a two time all Star for a reason. Like he’s a max contract player for a reason. You know what I mean? Like he’s one of the best young point guards in the Eastern Conference for a reason. So are you going to get that back? No. But can you reconfigure your roster? Can you restructure your salary cap by using Darius and find multiple players? Like one of those maybe is a point guard not as good as Darius, but can provide enough good things that you feel like, well, the ball handling responsibility is going to be on Donovan a little bit more or the offense is going to flow through Evan Mobley a little bit more or you bring back Ty Jerome and you give him a bigger role in terms of ball handling responsibilities, whatever the case may be. So I just think when you’re at a point that the Cavs are at with their roster the way the season ended earlier than anybody expected and with their salary cap situation, you have to start considering some of these alternatives and you have to start having very difficult conversations, conversations that are going to be painful, maybe even subtractions from the roster that are going to be painful. So the one that I keep bringing up, Ethan, and look, I don’t think there’s going to be a trade that I’m going to bring up in a hypothetical. Whether it’s for Jared Allen, whether it’s for Darius Garland, whether it’s for a combination of Isaac Kokoro, Dean Wade that is going to stop and make people say that’s a no brainer, gotta do that one. But I think there’s one out there that would make some sense from the Cavs perspective. Orlando is a team that is desperate for a point guard. Everybody knows that. They need scoring, they need shooting, they need playmaking, they need shot creation. Like they can’t have Paulo Banchero and Franz Wagner so responsible for their offense. Like, how can you create easier offense? How can you create easier shots for some of your better players? Enter Darius Garland, enter Trey Young. They’re probably going to be in those conversations. And Orlando is not a team that has money to spend this offseason in free agency unless they do a whole lot of salary cap gymnastics. They don’t even have the non taxpayer mid level exception because they are a first apron team. So the most they could offer a free agent is like $6 million a year. What kind of free agent are you getting for that kind of money? It’s probably not going to be one that does enough of the stuff that you need from a starting caliber point guard. So I look at Orlando, I look at Sacramento, those are the two teams that stand out to me the most about point guards in Orlando has always made sense and I don’t think it’s fronts they like. Darius for. Franz is something that I have brought up before on this podcast. I don’t know that Orlando has enough motivation to break up Franz and Paulo. So you start looking a little bit deeper than that and you start saying, okay, like if they’re in a terrible salary cap situation, who are some of the quote unquote expendable pieces, movable pieces. And I think there’s a framework and I say framework because salary stuff becomes very, very difficult for the Cavs. So you’re just talking about a general framework with an understanding that other pieces are probably going to have to be involved, maybe a third team is going to have to be involved. Matching salary becomes very, very difficult when you’re talking about the Cavs and the salary situation that they’re in. But I think there’s a framework of a deal between the Cavs and the Magic that would involve Darius Garland and Jalen Suggs. What do you Think of that.
Ethan Sands: That’s super ironic because of what happened in the last series between the two. Right. But I think Cavs fans will be happy with that trade, in part. Obviously, I feel like they would want more than just Jalen Suggs for Darius Garland. And obviously also in your subtext, you included a question to them about the viability would be for Tristan De Silva. So I think that’s former first round.
Chris Fedor: Pick, more salary filler than anything, but has the size, the length, the athleticism to maybe be a Dean Wade type player or something like that. So I, I think the general framework that we’d be working under would be Darius Garland for Jalen Suggs, Tristan Da Silva. And I think the question becomes like, how much better does that make the Cavs?
Ethan Sands: And defensively, I think it makes them a whole lot better. Right, Because Jalen Suggs is a 6 foot 5 point guard that would also be able to guard whoever it is on the opposing team that’s the best player. That also frees up Max Stru or DeAndre Hunter to run around guarding whoever else. It may be the secondary option, depending on who becomes the starting small forward for this team next year. It’s an interesting concept. It’s an interesting framework. Obviously, Tristan Da Silva is still unproven, but he’s gotten more minutes than a guy like Jayla Tyson in a rookie class. That is still, again, unproven. But I think it’s interesting just because of what Cavs fans have been looking for for a point guard for this team and also what we’ve talked about. What the Cavs were to get back from a potential trade is extremely important. And in this case, you get added size in the backcourt. That takes away kind of the small backcourt that we’ve been talking about for the last couple of seasons. But then you also have Donovan Mitchell with his wingspan and his length, that can be a better defender than some defensive analytics might state. I also think that just the toughness, the mental toughness that Jalen Suggs has would be extremely helpful for the Cavs, not only because of his kind of pit bull, bulldog mentality on defense, but he’s not going to get punked on the offensive end either, even though he’s not known for that end of the floor. Also, he can bring up the ball fine. Get Donovan off the ball. Yeah, all these things are important.
Chris Fedor: That’s what I’m saying. Like, I know you need the shot creation and the playmaking of Darius, and the idea behind Darius and Donovan together is how dynamic it can make your offense. And we saw that, right? It’s one of the best offenses in NBA history. During the regular season, it was one of the offenses in regular season history. Now, we didn’t get to see its full capabilities in a playoff environment because of the toe injury that Darius was playing through. And it makes it a little bit more complicated of an evaluation. But I just think stylistically, Darius style is one that is really difficult in a playoff environment. For a high minute, high usage player, it’s really difficult. He can get pushed around, he can get attacked on defense. They can hunt him in switches and mismatches. He can be bothered by the physicality and the tenacity and the playoff level stuff that Aaron Neesmith is going to provide, that Derrick White is going to provide, that Andrew Nemhard is going to provide, that, you know, you would probably have to deal with with Josh Hart or with Mikel Bridges. Those guys guarding Darius. And yes, he has advantages himself. His stop start, his change of direction, his handle, his hesitation, his craftiness. So it’s not saying that Darius can’t be a successful playoff performer, but I think his style is one where you have to have, like, all of the right pieces around him to become the team that you believe that you need to be. And I just think, you know, for this team, some of the defensive limitations, whether Darius was 100% or not, were always going to show up that smart coaches, smart opponents, disciplined opponents, were going to find a way to neutralize Darius or make him pay and make the Cavs pay so much on the defensive end. Not that he was going to get played off the floor or anything along those lines, but it was going to offset a lot of what the Cavs could become offensive. So I understand that Jalen Suggs is not as good of a player as Darius. I understand that Jalen Suggs is not as naturally gifted or talented as Darius, but he brings a lot of stuff that this team would benefit from. And again, like I said, you would just have to refocus and reimagine your offense. But he can handle. He can distribute, he can guard his butt off, he can shoot from the perimeter, he can drive, and he gives you more size, more toughness, more tenacity. He just looks more like a player that would play in the Minnesota, Oklahoma City series, right? He looks more like a player that would be playing in this Indiana, New York series. Darius doesn’t. It’s hard. There’s a reason why, like history has shown, small guys like Darius have a tendency to really, really struggle in a postseason environment, unless, like you’re all world transcendent on the offensive end of the floor. And I think Darius is really, really good as an offensive player. I think he’s an all star caliber player. But is he transcendent like Steph? No. Is he transcendent like Kyrie Irving? No, he’s not that level of offensive gifted. Not to me anyway. Does he have a body like Jalen Brunson? No. So I just think you have to start looking at these things, especially when you’re talking about championship. And maybe it’s not championship or bust yet, Ethan, but you’re getting really close to it being championship or bust. You’re getting really close to a window that is not going to be cracked open forever just because of the realities of the new CBA and the Eastern Conference and the Cavs roster and all of those different factors. So I do think that that is one. I don’t know that there are too many trades out there that you would say, okay, that’s one that you convince yourself makes the Cavs better. I think that’s one that does. Just because it fills in some other gaps that the Cavs need to fill in this offseason.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. And I think it’s important to note Jalen Suggs is going to turn 24 this June and Aries Garland is 25. So their timeline and trajectories are kind of similar when it comes to age wise. But to your point, Chris, we talked about the comparison between how Darius Garland needed to change his body, his defensive mindset, his mental toughness, his maturity to become a guy. Not saying he’s going to be Steph Curry, but to have that kind of a jump to get to the level where you’re as respected as someone like that because of the work that you put in. And I think it’s important to note that one because now the Cavs are playing this if and when kind of game with Darius Garland. Are you going to be capable of doing that? How many times do I have to ask this of you? How many times do we have to bring up, oh, I don’t need you to play like a 25 year old. I need you to play like a 28 year old. Right. And Jalen Suggs has never been asked that. Jaylen Suggs has been asked to play exactly who he is because he’s already playing with that mental space, with that mental toughness and already has the body built up to be able to handle everything on the defensive end. And the other thing that that kind of go hand in hand with that. When Jalen Suggs is struggling on offense, you can bet that he is going to be guarding his ass off on the other end to make up for it. And that’s just something that we don’t know if Darius, his mental fortitude is going to get to that level. And I don’t think the Cavs can wait for that. Again, to your point, Chris, where Eastern Conference finals are bust in the next year like that is the reality of the looming contract of Donovan Mitchell for his player option after the next two seasons and then the reality of the CBA and how things are changing around the league. And it’s not just going to be Darius Garland that teams are calling for after this year, Right. If the Cavs don’t get to the Eastern Conference semifinals and they can’t get over that hump, they’re going to be calling about Donovan Mitchell again. And we talked about this a little bit earlier into the summer about how it’s been nice or it has felt nice for the Cavs and for us, admittedly, to not have to talk about Donovan Mitchell’s whereabouts, where you’re going to end up in the next coming years. We’re almost to the point where we’re having those conversations again, Chris, and it was one year where we thought that the Cavs might have been off of those conversations. Right. So I just think the trade possibility that you’re talking about for Tristan De Silva and Jalen Suggs for Darius Garland is interesting because of what it could mean for the playoff viability of the Cavs and the future. When we talk about the age range, when we talk about the skill set, when we talk about the toughness, maybe Darius Garland gets one more shot at it and ends up getting traded before the trade deadline. You don’t see that growth. But again, it’s hard to do that with these star players, one, because you’re already in these contracts and two, because it’s the regular season for the Cavs that they would have to make these decisions. And as we saw in the regular season for almost all of it, it didn’t matter in the playoffs. They were one of the best regular season teams ever, especially offensively, and it didn’t translate. So I think the Cavs have to look themselves in the mirror and and figure out what they’re willing to do, what they’re willing to give up and what that means on their return.
Chris Fedor: I also think there’s something to be said, Ethan, about how a guy’s game translates to winning. And at Some point, it just doesn’t become a coincidence. And Jalen Suggs won in high school, he won in college, and he’s been part of Orlando’s rise. He’s obviously not the only part of it, but we’re talking about one of the top five picks, one of their core, core players that has been a part of them going from lottery, lottery, lottery, lottery, lottery, to a team that. I don’t want to say that they’re a contender in the east because I think that’s a little bit too far with them. But they have the look of that down the road at some point. And look, last year, you know, they pushed the Cavs to seven games, and this year, you know, they were a physical problem for the Celtics at the very least. So they’re knocking on the door to contention if they start making the other moves that they need to make around Paulo and around Franz and whoever else is going to remain on that roster. So I don’t think they’re a contender, but they have been a team that has gone from bad to good. And Jalen Suggs has been a big part of that because of his defensive tenacity, because of his winning characteristics, because of his on court leadership, because of a lot of the intangible things that, that you need from a player like that. So I, I think all of those things, I think all of those things translate to success, his game, it translates to winning. It’s synonymous with winning. It’s not to say that Darius isn’t or doesn’t, but it’s something that if, if I were the Cavs, I would at the very least consider it. I’m not ready to say that I would definitely pull the trigger on it, but it’s one that, that I would consider that, that I think at least has the ability, or you could make the argument makes the Cavs better because of the other ways that he helps and because I don’t think, I don’t think they take a significant step back on the offensive end of the floor. They obviously aren’t as dynamic in the backcourt, but we can’t pretend that Jalen Suggs is like a nine point per game scorer or something like that. He can go out and get 15. And with Donovan Mitchell, with Evan Mobley, that might be all you need, depending on some of the other moves that you try to make around the roster. If you do try to make other moves around the roster. If you can bring back Sam Merrill, if you can bring back Ty Jerome, if you can find some landing spot for Isaac Okoro to see if you can move off of his salary. I just think, you know, in today’s NBA, with the way that there are so many harsh penalties, it’s very, very difficult to have three All Stars on your roster. Very difficult. At some point, you’re going to have to make difficult decisions. And I don’t know that it’s this offseason because I think there are still some things that the Cavs can say to themselves about internal growth. A step forward, another step forward from Evan Mobley. Another step forward from Darius Garland. Maybe a slight step forward from Jared Allen. Like a better version of Jared Allen than what they got in the final two games against Indiana. Certainly they can probably still tell themselves those things and be accurate enough about it, but I don’t know how much longer that’s going to last. And I believe in Jalen Suggs as a playoff performer. I do. I’ve seen that and I believe his style and the things that make him him. I believe that those translate to playoff basketball.
Ethan Sands: When we talk about this hypothetical trade, I think the biggest thing that the Cavs would have to learn or know about Jalen Suggs before signing off on anything is how is his recovery going from his knee surgery? Because he is going to be coming off a knee surgery from last season that sat him out after the month of January. Right. So he was out for a majority of the second half of the season. Didn’t even make it to the All Star break even in that month of December. Chris, you talked about how he can go get a couple more, more than you might have thought. There were, I believe, five or six different games throughout the month of December that he had 20 or more points. There’s even a 32 ball in here. And when you look at like the shots per game in comparison to Darius Garland. Jalen Suggs took 13.7 shots per game during the regular season in just 35 games this year. Darius Garland took 15.7 shots per game in 75 games this year. And I think the other portion of this that you kind of alluded to is the development of Evan Mobley and wanting to get him to take more shots per game. Right. And I think if Jalen Suggs comes onto this team, you have an opportunity that you didn’t have with Darius Garland who was so fall centric. Now you can force feed Evan Mobley. And also Jalen Suggs is good at running around on offense, creating havoc and setting screens as well as we’ve seen as he’s done for Franz and Paolo at the point of attack on a small guard, which makes things a little bit more difficult for opposing teams. And you got to look at all the different sets that Kenny Atkinson could run so that Evan Mobley in potential or Jared Allen could be matched up with smaller guards on the paint or at the elbow. And all these things where they have the opportunity to create in a mismatch already just due to something that Darius Garland simply wasn’t doing. He was using ball screens, not setting them. And if he was setting them, he wasn’t setting them on anybody guarding Evan Mobley or Jared Allen, that just wasn’t an option. So I definitely think there’s definitely viability in this trade. And you mentioned Sacramento, and I don’t want to go too long winded into this, but who do you think they would be able to get back from Sacramento? And not necessarily talking about getting better, but the best option for them to get back. When we talk about the Sacramento Kings having a potential need for a point guard like Darius Garland and already having a good amount of moves last season with Demar and Zach LaVine and obviously DeMonta Sabonis being there, do you think that the Cavs could go and get a guy like Zach lavine for Darius Garland?
Chris Fedor: No, I don’t know that. I love that fit. Honestly, I’m not sure. Like, he gives you more size, there’s more athleticism there. The salaries are pretty close. I don’t know that Zach’s game translates to playoff winning or playoff success. I wonder about that. So I think you would probably have to go a different kind of direction and see if there’s another spot on the roster that. That you could make better. This one becomes a little bit more difficult just because of the players that maybe would be available and the contract of Darius versus the contract of the appealing players on that roster. Don’t like the fit of Zach, like I said. But is there a framework of Keegan Murray and. I don’t know. There’s a lot that he has to prove. His salary is nowhere close to Darius’s, so it gets a little bit more complicated. You probably have to bring in a third team or a fourth team, but of their players on the roster that would be, quote, unquote, expendable. Do you look at that? Do you look at Sabonis? I don’t know. It just doesn’t seem as seamless with Sacramento as it does with Orlando for me anyway. But the two that would come to mind if we’re trying to come up with fake hypothetical ones, I’D kick the tires on Sabonis and I kick the tires on Kiki Murray. And if you get Sabonis, obviously the need for Jared Allen changes and now you flip Jared Allen to try and reconfigure your roster. Is that too much change for a team that won 64 games in the regular season? Probably. I’m not sure that the Cavs have the appetite to make that drastic of a change to their roster following a 64 win season following another appearance in the second round, albeit a disappointing exit to the season. Like, I think you have to look at this in some ways as you’re playing poker and you have a pretty good hand and you have to be really, really careful when you have a pretty good hand about taking too many cards and changing too many of the things that you have. So with the Cavs, do you want to trade Darius Garland and Jared Allen in the same offseason? Probably not. So if you don’t love the fit of Zach lavine and you don’t want to significantly overhaul the roster by bringing back Sabonis, I mean, the only other one that makes any sense whatsoever is Keegan Murray, and I don’t even know if he’s got the level of toughness that the Cavs would want. I don’t know if he’s the kind of style of player that would be successful in a playoff environment. Is he a 3? Is he a 4? If he plays the 4, is he just going to get in foul trouble the whole time like he tends to to do? If he plays the four, is he just going to get overpowered by guys like Pascal Siakam and Carl Anthony Towns? If the Knicks play a too big lineup, is he not going to be able to handle the defensive assignment against Jayson Tatum when he eventually gets over his Achilles injury, how does he handle Giannis? So I don’t know that there’s a Sacramento trade out there.
Ethan Sands: Honestly, I think that’s fair and I just had to kick the tires on on your thoughts because you did bring them up and I know that, yeah.
Chris Fedor: I think they’re one of the teams, Ethan, that this offseason is looking for an upgrade at point guard. Obviously they traded Dear and Fox, but that wasn’t like, hey, for the next four or five years we’re going to be fine without adding to our team or without getting a true natural point guard that can run some DHO stuff and pick and roll stuff and pick and pop stuff. With Sabonis, I think that was a move that they felt like they had to make at the time. But I think this offseason they’re looking at their roster and saying, can we improve the point guard spot?
Ethan Sands: Well, Chris, I think we’ll have to hold off on that Tyrese Halliburton vs Darius Garland conversation for another day, maybe after.
Chris Fedor: Is it even a conversation at this point? Is it even a debate at this point? I mean, I came into the series against the Cavs, Indiana Cavs, and obviously we didn’t know the full health of Darius at that point in time, but I was the only one on this podcast that was making the argument that the Indiana Pacers had the second best player in the series. Nobody wanted to listen to me. Nobody did because they just decided that it was Evan Mobley, despite the fact that Evan hasn’t proven on a playoff stage the things that Tyrese has. But it wasn’t even a conversation to me. It was never a conversation about Darius and Tyreese. That was advantage Tyrese, advantage Pacers. I don’t even know that this is a worthy debate at this point.
Ethan Sands: Well, I was going to add on to that about any kind of playoff point guard outside of Tyrese and whether.
Chris Fedor: Whether you would have a worthy debate.
Ethan Sands: Correct. Whether you want to build around Darius Garland, Tyler Herro, all. All these guys, and who was at the cream of the crop. That might be a different podcast that you guys should look out for. Even though Chris doesn’t think to Tyrese and Darius is a big conversation. And I think he probably right. But I wanted to let his team.
Chris Fedor: Conference finals last year, conference finals this year, probably going to lead his team to the NBA Finals. And his numbers are outrageous when you get into the postseason. He is a playoff riser. That is one thing that you can say about Tyrese Halpert. And he doesn’t make mistakes and he oversees the flow and the rhythm and everything that is so great about maybe the best offense consistently that we’ve seen in the NBA playoffs for the last two straight years. Maybe probably an argument to it.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, no turnovers, Chris. That just helps your point about making no mistakes. Right. I think that’s a big one. So maybe we’ll have this conversation again briefly after the Indiana Pacers punch their ticket to the NBA Finals after Game 5 in Madison Square Garden. The most hated player to come into New York is no longer Trey Young. Tyrese Haliburton might have his name written all over that one by the end of this series, but we’re going to get into a lot more trade conversations throughout the summer. We are continuing to podcast five days a week. So with all that being said, that’ll wrap up this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Chris sent his subtext out earlier today asking about the trade that we talked about for a majority of this podcast. If you want to get the insight directly to your phone immediately as it comes to our thoughts, that’s how you do it. And to get this information, to get this insight and to give your your opinions, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through cell text. Y’ all be safe. We.
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