CLEVELAND, Ohio — Welcome to this week’s Terry’s Talkin’ podcast, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. This week, they look at the Pacers vs. Knicks series and continue to breakdown the offseason in the wake of the Cavs’ playoff elimination by the Pacers last week.
They also get into the Guardians and why there’s a key stretch coming up for them in the next week. And they each raise a question on their minds about the Browns as they conduct OTAs out in Berea.
Have any questions or comments for the podcast? Send your thoughts and questions in via email to us at sports@cleveland.com and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line, and we’ll try to feature it on an upcoming episode.
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The transcript below was generated by a computer, and as such it contains many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell (03:26.332)
Hey, it’s time for a new edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host. And just back from what appeared to be a wonderful trip in Wyoming is Terry Pluto. Welcome back, Terry. Had a few days off and then it looks like you really enjoyed it with Roberta out there.
Terry Pluto (03:41.536)
Yeah, we went to a part. mean, there’s a couple of Wyoming’s. We’ve been out there a lot, although because of so much elder care and things that we’ve had with probably been 12 or 15 years since we’ve been there before that we used to go there every year. But anyway, you know, there’s the Wyoming of the Tetons and Yellowstone is spectacular scenery and that, but there are so many people there there are, but there’s so many other mountain ranges in my own Wyoming. And we went to one that’s south of Laramie.
called the Snowy Mountains and Medicine Bow National Forest. Look at places, you ever wanna go to Wyoming? I think it’s worth obviously going to see the Tetons and Yellowstone and everything, but also look at other parts of the state where it’s kinda wide open, scenery’s spectacular. And look at what you’re getting here. Here you wanted to talk about sports and you get a quick Wyoming advertisement. And when in Wyoming and anywhere around Cheyenne, you must eat.
David Campbell (04:34.482)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (04:39.062)
at the Little Bear restaurant by far. Great steaks and great walleye and a family runs it. And you can talk to the son who was just graduating, getting ready to go on the air force. it’s, you know, I mean, obviously this Wyoming is the, the, ninth largest state. It’s like, it’s bigger than Ohio or whatever in terms of landmass. It has only 560,000 people living there. It’s the state where the fewest people live.
David Campbell (04:41.135)
really?
Terry Pluto (05:08.916)
It’s a unique spot and if you ever get a chance, look, if you don’t like nature, we’d ever skip it. You know, go to Chicago or New York or something. But if you do and you could ever get a chance to get out there, go for it.
David Campbell (05:20.508)
Yeah, and you in your newsletter this week, you shared a bunch of pictures and they call it big sky country out there. That whole part of the whole part of the country out there. And like it is literally, it just goes on for forever. It seems like when you look up at the sky and those pictures, it’s nuts.
Terry Pluto (05:25.6)
God. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (05:34.378)
Yeah, it’s one of those, it’s a line I wish I’d written. It’s a Western writer by the name of Dan O’Brien. And, he wrote a line. said, in parts of those, they’re like, you’re on the big sky. The big point is you feel like everybody could see you. Only nobody’s looking. It’s like, there’s like nobody around. And so that’s, yeah, that’s good. So unfortunately, or fortunately, a lot of people are looking at the calves there, David Campbell, and they are saying,
David Campbell (05:54.386)
That’s good.
David Campbell (06:01.082)
Yeah, well, we’re trying to figure out what to start with today. I think it seems like Cavs fans are kind of living vicariously through this Nick Spacer series a little bit to kind of see what happens. So I thought we’d start with the Cavs a little bit. And you wrote over the weekend kind of where you stand with Kenny Atkinson and how a year ago you didn’t really think that getting rid of JB Bickerstaff was the right move. But you’re standing behind Kenny right now. Why don’t we start with that?
Terry Pluto (06:10.4)
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
David Campbell (06:28.888)
And why you think he’s the right coach for this team going forward. Let’s, let’s get into that, Terry.
Terry Pluto (06:34.486)
And the second part of, okay, I wouldn’t have fired JB. The other part was when they were interviewing all those different coaches, I was an Atkinson guy. he would early on, Mike Fertel on some other friends of mine, gave a Fertel even had Atkinson on his staff when he coached the Ukraine national team and, and others. they told me Atkinson would really be good if the cows are going to make a change. And so I’ve not moved off of that at all. I think.
David Campbell (06:42.106)
Right, early on.
Terry Pluto (07:03.038)
As you mentioned, the a lot of cast fans are watching this Indiana series closely because I kind of want to see, where’s my team at? Because suppose the Pacers had gone and just got hammered by the Knicks. And you go, well, I don’t know what to make of that then other than I guess the 64 wins were just totally bogus and et cetera. Well, now we’re seeing that series is three to one. It’s funny the.
Roberta mentioned this to me because we watched some of those in Wyoming at night and she said because she loves basketball my wife does and you know when they won the First two games in the end won the first two games in New York. She goes Oh, I think it’s gonna be just like the Cavs series They’ll probably lose one of those games at home win one then beat the next and it looks like that’s what it’s going to happen because it is very hard to sweep anybody unless you’re kind of like Where the Cavs face Miami who just was barely made the playoffs?
And so one of the things that that column on, Atkinson that I wrote, and I said, sometimes it’s just the other teams year. You look at them and you just say, these guys are cooking. the Pacers entered the season after January one, they had a 34 and 14 regular season record. Let me say again, 34 and 14. Then they, right now in the playoffs, their record.
is 11 and three as we speak. know, knocked out Milwaukee in five, knocked out Cleveland in five, and they’re probably going to knock out New York in five or six or whatever it takes. And that’s, you just run into a team, they’ve been able to stay healthy, they being the Pacers, and they’re just really good.
But what I love about them, know, Halliburton’s a star. There’s no doubt about that. But, but, but, but they don’t have the mega star that everybody, you know, thinks you got to have the guy in the NBA, the greatest guy, know, whoever it may be to win the title. And right now, regardless of who ends up winning this, I mean, maybe you could say, one of those players in the West, you know, SGA, you know,
Terry Pluto (09:26.83)
Gildes Alexander, obviously he’s the MVP. But I mean, how many casual fans even know what SGA stands for? I’m very serious. You know, they’re a team that’s built on defense and that. so, you know, from that regard, first of all, I love it that for the most part is mid-sized markets in this. And secondly, I like how the basketball is being played, you know, just in terms of who’s doing it.
David Campbell (09:34.994)
No, I know.
Terry Pluto (09:55.254)
And finally, David, I got to say you, you brought this up and we talked about it last week. And then they turned into a, a post. The discussion of the officiating in the playoffs, you know, how they, they, they there, I got a lot of reaction on that.
David Campbell (10:10.182)
Right, yeah.
really? Yeah, we got a letter from KK, listener KK, who was wondering why it’s two different games. One is physical a lot in the playoffs and one in the regular season. Just to quickly summarize that.
Terry Pluto (10:16.131)
What role? yeah. Yes.
Terry Pluto (10:22.762)
Yeah, okay. Well, KK is right. I don’t know why I mean I would think Roberta and I so we kind of watched it close Remember Roberta played on her first women’s team ever at Hiram College and back when I covered the Cavs She was a often accompanied me to having lunch with Lenny Wilkins and whenever she really her pastor was like in a game once with her and says You really know this stuff and she said well, you know by osmosis. She’s also bright. But anyway, we’re watching this and we’re going
Why are they just letting these guys maul each other? It’s, you know, you’ve gone from wide open, nobody guards anybody. as, as, as, Charles Barker would say, every fool takes any full shot from any fool where he wants to let’s go back to the nineties and let’s have wrestling. It’s crazy. It really is. Yeah. What are you doing? You know, I mean, which one do you want? I prefer the wide open spaces. You know, in other words,
David Campbell (11:08.658)
It’s like going from Wyoming to London.
Terry Pluto (11:18.966)
And we talked about this and I feel more strong than ever on it. last week, I, if I were, the commissioner, I, if I were in a silver, silver rather, I would come out and say, we are going in the playoffs to call it like the regular season and this first round, may not like it, but we’re not going to have wrestling matches. we’re not, we, we are in the entertainment business and the basketball business.
And it, you know, because if you just call it enough and call enough files, you will clean it up.
David Campbell (11:55.228)
Well, I question whether they even want to do that. mean, they like it because they like this in your face stuff. makes for good highlights and guys getting in each other’s faces and the hard falls and it’s, this is the playoffs and here’s what it takes to win. I don’t think they might change it. I think they’re fine with it.
Terry Pluto (11:57.996)
Well, why were they not?
Terry Pluto (12:04.396)
I guess.
Terry Pluto (12:15.512)
That would be fascinating, you know, to talk to, some of the coaches, see what they think. I’ll tell you this. Mike Fortello called me and we, we talked maybe once a month or worse. So it’s not like we’re big friends. He called me after Denver got eliminated and he said, and remember for teleplay to very physical defense. Let’s you know, this was not Pat Riley’s, you know, of the late Lakers, you know, showtime or, any of that stuff.
And he said, did you happen to see what was done to, Yocic and the, and the Denver series. And I said, I just saw someone who goes, they mauled the guy because it was ridiculous. He said, he is a joy to watch play, but they just turned into a wrestling match on him. And he said, it’s just not right. And I thought, wow, that, that caught my attention too. When Mike, who again,
Coach Physics, Physical Style said that. Yeah, and right, and he just said, no, this is not right. He thinks it’s hurting the product. So, no, no, I’m just saying, yeah, go ahead. Your turn.
David Campbell (13:14.48)
Yeah, that was the way it was back then, even the regular season.
David Campbell (13:24.166)
I’m not disagreeing with that, Terry. I’m just saying like, so here’s my question to you. What if it doesn’t change? What if the playoffs are always going to be more physical and more loosely called? How are the Cavs going to adapt to that? And here’s what I’m getting at. So you see this in the NFL a lot. A team will hire an offensive coach and then if it doesn’t work out, they’ll hire a defensive coach. Or if they have a coach who’s a real...
Terry Pluto (13:42.83)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (13:50.214)
disciplinary and they’ll hire someone who’s kind of loose and free and lets the guys do what they want a little bit more and it kind of goes back and forth. So the Caz have gone from J.B. Bickerstaff who was admittedly, he admits that he loves to teach defense and preach defense as the foundation of his team. And now they bring in Kenny, who’s supposed to unlock Evan Mobley and we saw some of that this year, more freewheeling, more creative offensively. if the playoffs are going to be like this.
Terry Pluto (14:06.018)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (14:19.93)
and the Cavs are stuck with this roster. I don’t mean stuck in a negative way. I’m just, this is the roster they have. Where is this toughness going to come from? And we got a letter here from Jim Mullin, long time listener and Jim says, Hey guys, I know that on those great Bulls teams, Michael Jordan drove everybody hard in practice. He would not accept mistakes and less than 100 % effort. Practices with Jordan could get brutal. Players would not dare loaf or go through the motions. Maybe practicing hard and competitively would help the Cavs.
Again, that’s from Jim Mullin. I’m kind of tying this all together. where is this toughening in this, in Donovan Mitchell said this after the, in his post playoffs press conference. If you want to rip us, go ahead. We deserve it. That was basically his message. So where, where’s this team’s toughness going to come from? Does it have to come from, from Donovan Mitchell? Does it have to come from Kenny? Where do they get this from? If it’s going to be like this.
Terry Pluto (15:03.64)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (15:15.596)
Well, I think Kenny and Mitchell have to set the tone and practices and Kenny also mentioned that he’s not talking about brawling. This is not about throw Tristan Thompson and have him arm wrestle guys. mean, who is really arm wrestling guys, you know, playing slow pace with the Pacers, for example. I would say the look at how the Pacers play. They never seem to get tired. Notice that they don’t get tired. That may be really
When you talk about playing with force and that, that, that, needs to be done with the cats. Cause for the most part, you know, the, that’s why it was, I mean, it was a genuine emotion from Rick Carlisle when Kenny came out and members complained about the guys. They all got hurt in the first game and this and Carlisle’s like, well, this is the first for me in Indiana and ever be called a physical team. But, uh,
And you go back and look at those there was in that file. It’s like, for example, when Mowgli got hurt, he came down and landed on an Indiana player’s foot. Maybe, you know, there’s some rules about you don’t want to get your feet under there, but the guy didn’t put his foot under Mowgli to hurt his ankle. And then I don’t know how Garland got hurt, you know, hurt his, guess in Miami or I don’t know when he got hurt with his toe. And then the only one guy that got kind of decked was Deandre Hunter. I mean, this was not.
bill on beer throwing people into the basketball, you know, stanchion or anything. But the thing about Indiana and I’m watching them go, they never get tired. They never get tired, you know, and how they handle things. And they also keep a lot of the pressure off of Halliburton. You he’s not always bringing a ball up in this. Meanwhile, they’re in your face. And I don’t mean that does bring into ball up. So I would use that more of your model because the model that they brought in Kenny for
David Campbell (16:44.07)
Right.
Terry Pluto (17:08.994)
would have been what? do they really want to do this year?
David Campbell (17:12.124)
They wanted to diversify the offense and take Evan Moley to the next level, right?
Terry Pluto (17:16.682)
Right. also just shoot more threes. Yeah. Right. More threes. Yeah. So yeah, exactly. So that was sort of the Celtic model and Golden State. That’s what they wanted. and I still think that’s viable, but then you’ve got to add the Indiana relentless pressure defense. Now, does that mean you’ve got to go out and maybe get some more role players who can play that, bring that
David Campbell (17:18.853)
yeah, more threes and more ball movement spreading the floor, yes.
Terry Pluto (17:43.374)
Like Nemhart and E Smith and some of those guys do for the Pacers Something like that. That’s what they need to look at and they’d need to make their practices Here was the thing about Jordan and those practices the Bulls never got hurt. I can’t explain it, but they never got hurt it seemed like and They were so they being the cows were so, you know, David concerned about injuries That I you know that if they took days off, you know, I guys they managed
load management during the season, all that stuff. So they got to figure out how to practice, I do think, tougher and not avoid the injuries. It’s funny though, a part of the NBA and we see it in the NFL too, is like, if I have a choice, I’ll rather risk on doing less to hope not to get hurt than to have a hard practices or play a guy in a preseason game and have him get hurt and then kick myself over it.
David Campbell (18:42.502)
Yeah, I mean, so there’s kind of two things that need to happen here, right? They can either improve what they have or they can go from outside. So I think we’ve kind of talked pretty, pretty in depth here about kind of what can happen from the inside. And there’s, there’s going to be, I think there’s going to be times when if somebody’s not performing, Kenny needs to bench them. Right? Like it’s not, it’s like a hockey approach. There’s times when you’re superstar in hockey doesn’t play in the third period because he’s not playing art. I think they could use some of that.
Terry Pluto (18:48.706)
Yeah?
Terry Pluto (19:00.524)
Yeah, exactly.
Terry Pluto (19:07.638)
Right. Or they’ll pull, they’ll pull, or they’ll pull a goalie. Won’t they David? Yeah. I mean, guys, I mean, to me, like, stay with me this, we’re going to, we’re going to go into your area. What do you think hockey, the hockey goalies won like the hardest positions.
David Campbell (19:11.716)
definitely. Yeah, if you’re not getting the job done.
David Campbell (19:23.922)
definitely. And there’s a thing like if a guy’s just having an off night, you might pull him in between periods so he doesn’t be embarrassed and have the long skate to the bench. But if a guy isn’t playing hard, you pull him in the middle of period and make him take the long walk. And I just think there’s room for that with this guy. I didn’t see a lot of that this year where somebody wasn’t playing hard defense. You know what? You’re done. You’re done for the rest of the quarter until you decide you want to play hard.
Terry Pluto (19:28.172)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (19:31.699)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (19:40.918)
Mm-hmm. I agree.
David Campbell (19:51.236)
And I agree with the practices. think they need to kind of build and ramp up for the playoffs and maybe it’s controlled where you’re not running, you know, toward the end of the season. That’s when you really ramp up the practices. You got to go intense. You just have to be ready for it. You have to replicate what you’re going to see.
Terry Pluto (20:05.334)
Yeah. There’s two things about it. I like the goalie thing. It’s just like there, there are days you can see, I know we’ve been kicking on garland some, but you can see there again, he’s just not guarding anybody or whatever. And, he’s worn down and get them out of there. And you can go with that. You know, once in a while, Donovan’s there. I’m, careful with Donovan. just think he is such a.
Such a great competitor and he’s really about what your team wants to be about.
David Campbell (20:39.226)
I do wonder though, Terry, if it’s time for him to go from being the nurturing kind of big brother to more of what we were just talking about with Jim’s email about Jordan and like, gotta get on these. Somebody’s gotta get on these guys and there are not many, there’s a few players on that team who can do that. Max Struce certainly has taken on some of that role, but I think it’s gotta be Donovan and him and maybe somebody else just getting on guys. This is not getting it done.
Terry Pluto (20:44.714)
Yes, go.
Yeah.
Yep.
Terry Pluto (20:59.768)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (21:07.664)
This is not winning basketball. And we’ll see. I’m really curious to see if that’s the next step of evolution.
Terry Pluto (21:09.144)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (21:13.644)
Yeah, I think I liked, I liked the idea of David that you’re putting it out there and also practices being more physical doesn’t mean it’s brawling. means often it means running, you know, playing beyond playing behind. That’s what Indiana is good at playing beyond fatigue for some of these guys. And that may be the next thing, you know, Kenny comes out and that, that practice may still only go 90 minutes or whatever, but those 90 minutes are fast pace and.
David Campbell (21:23.548)
Yeah, pressure.
Terry Pluto (21:43.118)
getting that ball, get that ball up the court, get in people’s faces and pressure them, that kind of stuff. So I like the idea of that. I could tell after, I have to go back and look at the exact quotes Kenny said after they were eliminated. But he said that’s one thing we learned from here is he talks about playing with more force. And I think that’s what he means. I remember, talking to, this is,
the old days when like Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan were two leaders of this and, and some of the other players before the game, they would sit in front of their locker. Of course, the locker rooms are smaller and, you could talk to them. were there for 20, 30 minutes. Whoever wanted to come by and magic magic just loved all the band or Barclays and you could Barclays in front of his locker was really uncensored. A lot of fun. but they, they also knew they were selling the game, but anyway, so we’ve got it in the subject with magic.
And I had brought up pressure defense, forgot who, I think it was Denver back then was pressuring a lot or whatever. And I said, you guys seem to handle that pretty well. He said, I’m to tell you right now, no point guard likes to be pressured. And I go, did you hear me? No point guard likes to be pressured. He goes, you don’t want to let anybody know it’s bothering you. I said, you goes, I don’t care. No point guard likes to be pressured. He says, think about it. Would you rather just dribble the ball up the floor, get past the mid court line.
and then just kind of survey the court, or would you rather have to fight through whatever this guy’s throwing at you, get passed up there, and then try to find the open guy?
David Campbell (23:22.374)
Yeah, and this might be probably the greatest point card of all time saying this. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (23:25.358)
Yes, and he’s big. He’s strong. So I was thinking, and you know what, probably Rick Carlisle, I assume he might even have discussion with magic. Who knows? He’s been around forever. And he thought, you know what? I’ve got this team. This is how we’re going to play. I mean, look at that. They are wearing Brunson down in that series. I mean, Brunson, but he is he’s falling over. He’s that he’s still playing well. He’s a boy. He’s another guy. It’s a great. I just love his game in terms of his attitude. But there’s like
They’re going to wear you out. wore Donovan out. And of course, part of it was that they didn’t have to worry a lot from Garland, but I think you’re onto it, David, that yes, Donovan getting tougher and some of the others in this style of practicing and is just more physically demanding, not physical in terms of fighting, but just physically demanding.
David Campbell (24:19.218)
All right, so we’re talking about changes within the team. think I just mentioned that a minute ago. Why don’t we look at, there’s a couple of trade possibilities that are kind of floating out there that I wanted to talk to you think we mentioned last week this thing going around about the Yanis Evan Mobley concept and Jimmy Watkins, our colleague, wrote a column about this on Monday and his point was like, this will probably never happen in a million years. It’s more of a trade machine dream for a lot of fans than an actual thing that can happen.
Terry Pluto (24:22.573)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (24:32.874)
Right.
David Campbell (24:48.806)
said thinking about it can tell us about what the calves want to be. Do they want to win a championship in the next two years? Or do they want to have like this long runway and take their chances, right? What do you think about that? And then I want to ask you about another trade that Chris Fedor has kind of tossed out there, but this Yanis Mobli thing that’s floating around and kind of what it would mean for the calves and you’re against it, right? Yeah.
Terry Pluto (25:08.622)
I can’t do it. don’t know what Mowgli is going to be. Giannis is 30, isn’t he? believe. 9th year. There’s a lot of miles on those tires. Maybe he does carry you. Maybe he doesn’t.
David Campbell (25:16.092)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (25:28.046)
I don’t like it where Kobe Altman said, know, we only go as far as Evan Mobley will carry us. No, that’s wrong. That’s wrong thinking. He’s part of it, but you got to have other stuff. But Mobley, that’s one of the thinking be when Mobley, if he becomes a great player, that is one of the big impetus of the Cavs becoming a great team. So I’m not in the mood to do that. But I get it. It’s fun. You know, it’s like if you thought we just got to win tomorrow, you know, okay.
If I had to win tomorrow’s game, want Giannis. But I’m not sure I even want Giannis in three years. I really don’t. And also, so that’s, that’s why I wouldn’t do it. What’s your other trade?
David Campbell (26:08.818)
Okay, so for those who aren’t familiar, we have a thing called subtext, which we do on all of our beats. If you want to sign up for any of them, just go to the team page, cleveland.com slash browns or cabs or whatever, and there’s a blue bar at the top. And the deal is if you pay 3.99 a month, our reporters will text you like, hey, I’m going into practice. Here’s what I’m thinking today about the team. So anyway, Chris, long story short, on our cab subtext, Chris Fedor sent this out. He says, hey, here’s he’s like, here’s the general framework of a trade.
And again, the calves are in the second apron, which really restricts you in terms of who you can trade and who you can move. Okay.
Terry Pluto (26:39.918)
Oh, yeah. Well, all right. Here’s a couple of things about that. Just so you know, for example, you can’t, if you were in a second apron right now for Yanis, it would almost have to be a straight up trade. You can’t put together two guys to equal this other guy’s salary. Yeah. A lot of stuff like that. Yeah.
David Campbell (26:55.524)
Right, right, there’s a lot of restrictions in terms of, right, it kind of puts the handcuffs on teams so that they can’t build these super teams and everything.
Terry Pluto (27:02.046)
Yeah. And the reason they’re doing that is they just don’t, the NBA is very serious about giving his mid market teams a chance. It really is. And, you know, yes, Dan Gilbert is the exception because, you know, I keep, he’d be willing to go into 47 aprons to win, but, but not if it’s going to hurt your ability to, to obtain other players. But so I liked that about the NBA. Good. Good for them. You got to do it this way. Yeah.
David Campbell (27:28.166)
Yeah, and we’re seeing with OKC in Indiana, right? So here’s what Chris sent out. said, here’s the general framework of a trade. And Chris says, I use general because of all the tax and apron restrictions. Curious what you think. Darius Garland to Orlando for a package including Jalen Suggs and Tristan De Silva. Really? All right. So Suggs would.
Terry Pluto (27:31.296)
Yeah
Terry Pluto (27:45.366)
I do it yesterday. Yes. Well, I would actually instead of the Silva, I would look at one of the Wagner brothers. but I not here. All right. Personal prejudice, all this. I love Jalen sucks. I, I wanted him, I rated him over mobile in the draft. Of course I was wrong on that, but I will tell you Jalen sucks in the same back court.
with, Donovan is a better fit. He’s tough minded. he can, I think he would even thrive in the offense with Kenny. And I, you know, I, I’ve struggled, you know, we’ve had talking about this day for quite a while. My, combination with Donovan and Garland, I just have struggled with it can play off time and I still am.
David Campbell (28:39.09)
All right, so Suggs would increase the length of the backcourt to a 6′5″, right? I think he’s 6′5″, but he, last season, after the new year, I think he had back spasms and didn’t play a lot. And then had some, I think he had some cartilage issues in his knee. And maybe in March, I think he had an operation and was done for the year. And so that’s all going on. But, you know, he was averaging career high, think 16.
Terry Pluto (28:42.87)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (28:49.718)
Yeah, that’s a problem.
Terry Pluto (28:56.494)
Yep.
Terry Pluto (29:00.961)
Yeah.
David Campbell (29:06.61)
points a game and 4.0 rebounds. It’s his fourth season. You’re not worried about the injuries though. It doesn’t sound like that.
Terry Pluto (29:12.834)
Yeah, because I’m training a guy who has injuries.
David Campbell (29:15.612)
Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (29:16.91)
I mean, no, exactly. I mean, we’re not trading, you know, Ironman Joe McGinty here, you know, who pitched like every game for, think it was your white socks back in 1901 or something. No, or old Hoss Radburn and you know, all those guys. But, so yes, I, I thought I’m very aware of that, but I also just think Suggs is
David Campbell (29:28.748)
he’s a real guy. thought maybe it was just kind of a generic.
Terry Pluto (29:46.222)
You know, sucks was the Minnesota high school player of the year as a quarterback. hope I got that right. I’m 99 % sure. Cause I loved them in the draft. And I do know, uh, that, uh, Atkinson and Altman do like him. Now there’s nothing to do with the trip, but cause, cause I’ve told them both about, you know, I’ll tell you how smart I was. You know, I wanted to sucks in the draft or remotely. I remember Colby Altman said, well, at you wanted a really good player. So again,
David Campbell (30:12.732)
Yeah, you weren’t necessarily wrong. You were just different.
Terry Pluto (30:16.078)
Yeah, right. It’s not like when I said that, um, the 2018 draft of quarterbacks. Oh yeah. I’m a Josh Rosen guy. Oh, by the way, in Wyoming, I walked into the university of Wyoming, um, bookstore where they were selling Wyoming jerseys of you know who Josh Allen. Yes. Who at least was my number two quarterback that year. Uh, but anyway, you go back to that. So, uh, my sense is they do like them. Uh,
David Campbell (30:34.492)
Josh Allen. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (30:44.344)
But I would trace, cause I don’t know where he is with his contract and that, but I’m, I’m real open to a discussion involving Garland and Suggs.
David Campbell (30:55.954)
Okay, so I’m going to put you down as in favor of that deal and I guess we’ll see if anything comes of it.
Terry Pluto (30:59.358)
Yeah, I’ll see how that comes of it. Right. Structuring it. But I don’t think Chris just throws stuff out to throw it out. That’s not his style either. And I’ll leave it at that.
David Campbell (31:12.188)
Well yeah, but also I think there’s only so many teams that would fit for this kind of deal. I think he, I don’t necessarily think there’s any reporting that this might happen, but he was just trying to put the pieces together and something that could work. Yes, yeah. And yeah, it’s a good bit of, yeah.
Terry Pluto (31:18.284)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (31:21.93)
No, but he may know like I know that they like Suggs. Yeah, now I could tell you this. I do know this from the Orlando end. They would be interested in Garland because they can’t score 100 points.
David Campbell (31:39.1)
So this is a trade again that could work for both teams and yeah.
Terry Pluto (31:41.038)
It really is. just that, and again, maybe because I, I’ve been into sucks camp forever and he had a rocky rookie year and I’m going, Lord, you you know, it’s one of those, I told you, like, feel fairly confident talking about basketball players, evaluating them and that, where I struggle more in football. And I’m going, did I just look at this stuff wrong on sucks?
He just had a rock. forgot what it was. He just had a rough rough year. And I think then they changed coaches or something after that. I think when Molesly came in, he just kind of grew. And so yes, I don’t mark me down. Well, I’m not saying that’s not straight up, but let’s look at that. That’s what I would say.
David Campbell (32:21.595)
Alright.
David Campbell (32:26.032)
Alright, okay. So before we wrap up with the Cavs, a quick news tidbit. Man, I gotta tell you, Terry, there’s not many athletes that you see that like take your breath away when you watch them play, but Sean Kemp was one of them, especially when he was with the Sonics in his early days before he came to Cleveland and played for the Cavs and gained weight, had a big contract. But Sean Kemp this last few days out in Tacoma, Washington.
Terry Pluto (32:35.84)
Yeah. Yeah.
David Campbell (32:51.824)
He pleaded guilty to a second degree assault. There was a shooting in a parking lot at a mall out there. Nobody was injured, but there was some testimony about people trying to break into Kemp’s truck and him shooting it back and forth. anyway, he pleaded guilty and to a lesser charge and it sounds like he won’t be spending any time behind bars or anything. So that all kind of worked out in his favor, but Kev’s fans kind of, he’s kind of one of the most infamous signings of all time.
Terry Pluto (32:54.126)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (33:03.531)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (33:18.87)
Yeah, this was one they were frustrated with.
the team with Mark Price and Larry Nance and Doherty getting stuck in the playoffs. So they decided to take a big swing. We love that term around here. And their big swing before the Browns made big swings with Sean Kemp. And I forgot all the details of that. they brought him in to have a quote superstar. And what they didn’t realize in Seattle is Kemp’s personal problems were beginning to mount in that.
So he comes in, he’s huge. I mean, he’s really put on a lot of weight and they gave him this big multi-year contract before they even got to know him. By the way, on a personal level, Kemp to talk to was polite. I thought he was thoughtful. I like talking to him. Okay, let me say that. But you know, he had the off court issues and, but so he plays for a while. Then Gordon Gunn.
has a meeting with, was Gund and Wayne Embry and I think Fratello.
Gordon Gahn told me this story. And this is in the book, the franchise that Brian Winters and I wrote together. so he brings in Kemp and he has Kemp with like two 15 pound weights, there’s one in each hand and asks Kemp to walk around the office. He does, he walks around, then he says, put them down, now walk around again.
Terry Pluto (35:00.59)
Which is easier? And he said, cause he was weighing like 280 at that point or something. He goes, you lose 30 pounds, Sean, it would be good for you. You know, it was really an interesting thing. didn’t, it didn’t change anything, but they really were trying to get more out of him. And I just remember that. And you could tell in
By the way, Joe Tate loves Sean Kemp as a person. I guess they talked a lot. They got along well, but you just looked at them and you could tell there was kind of flawed in terms of how he was wired, how he approached things. I mean, he played a ton of minutes for Fratello early on. mean, then they had to make this huge trade. were able to convince Portland to take him and I forgot all the ramifications. John Paxson did the, or Jim Paxson did the deal. He was at GM.
And that actually kind of set the stage. That’s when they went into tanking to go get LeBron or somebody else. But I just remember that thought. I don’t know if we ever did that to someone in our family and gave them two 15 pound weights and told them walk around the room and then put them down.
David Campbell (36:08.434)
I remember hearing a story about Bobby Knight back in the 80s at Indiana. There was a guy named Marty Simmons who was there and I think he was 25 pounds overweight and Bobby Knight, the legend has it, gave him a weight to run up and down the court with. So that’s the only other time I’ve heard something like that. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (36:12.386)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (36:17.688)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (36:24.106)
Yeah, but it’s like, I mean, that’s not a bet. Yeah. Haven’t played one of those weighted belts and practice for 15 minutes and then take it off. All right. What do you think? You know,
David Campbell (36:29.776)
Yeah. Yeah. And Sean Kemp was not one of these guys. He wasn’t like Tim Duncan where he, Tim Duncan played a very graceful kind of thoughtful. Sean Kemp was like about violence around the rim and jumping high and blocking shots, throwing down these just memorable dunks. And he played a high impact game on his knees and that weight, think it just really, really just cost him a lot.
Terry Pluto (36:39.341)
No.
Terry Pluto (36:43.672)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (36:54.518)
Yeah, it did. And my guess he was probably Joe Tate there was he was probably Joe says I’m a stress eater. So was Sean Kemp and now Kemp had, you know, said other issues off the floor, but when I saw that, I just thought of that story and I thought, well, instead of an Earl Weaver story, you get a Sean Kemp story this week.
David Campbell (37:15.314)
Yeah, yeah. Well, he’s had a lot of things going on in his life. We hope things will turn up to the better for him as time goes on and best of luck to Sean Kemp. So a Cavalier from many, many years ago as it stands now. So, all right, you ready to take a break here, Terry? All right, let’s talk Guardians when we get back. There’s a lot to go through there. They have a big series coming up with the Yankees next week that I wanted to talk about too. So we’ll talk about that and more when we return on Terry’s Talkin.
David Campbell (42:19.802)
Okay, we’re back on Terry’s talking. I did want to mention Terry’s newsletter. Terry, I learned something new about you, it seems, every month. So, in your newsletter that came out today, and you can sign up if you want by going to cleveland.com slash Pluto and click on the blue bar at the top and you can subscribe right there. Somebody wrote you and said that about 40 years ago, they produced one of your plays at the Cleveland Public Theater in their new play festival. I had no idea that you’ve written plays.
Terry Pluto (42:47.074)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, not very good ones, but I wrote a couple. James Levine was the guy who did, he was the founder of the Cleveland Public Theater, which I believe is still around. And they had a contest to send them in and I I love plays and drama. And I took a playwriting course at Cleveland State, a couple of them from a guy named JJ Gary, who had had actually a couple of productions reach off Broadway. He was a director and I got interested in that.
David Campbell (42:51.974)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (43:18.73)
And actually the reason I talked about that is that even though I’m quote unquote a failed playwright, and the play wasn’t very good. It was sort of a bad knockoff of a David Mamet guy who did cloned Gary, cloned Ross and American Buffalo, a couple of others. but I learned a lot from that style of writing, just like I try to write some novels and struggle, but it makes you a better writer. And that’s, I’m telling some of the people out there who writing, you know, try different for arts formats. And just because that doesn’t.
work, right now, you know, in that area, for example, this upcoming week, I did write a faith column about Wyoming and it’s a little different. Some of the faith columns are in a lot of the playwriting slash novel writing attempts I’ve made helped me to be able to write a different format. So, if you don’t be afraid to, you know, the old thing, so you fail in this area, you know, go, go try, try something else.
David Campbell (44:16.998)
Yeah, it’s funny you mentioned that changing what you are doing in a smaller, big way can really open new doors to creativity. I was just reading a thing the other day where it was a newsletter and somebody was writing about when they were, Steven Spielberg was filming the movie Jaws back in the seventies and they wanted a real shark, like a mechanical shark. And they said, we’ll build you on, but it’s going to cost $250,000. And we can’t guarantee it’s going to last the whole movie.
Terry Pluto (44:23.98)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (44:40.396)
Yeah.
You
David Campbell (44:44.274)
And Spielberg is like, we can’t do that. Like that’s too much money. It’s going to just bust our budget. So that’s when he came up with the thing of like shooting the movie from the shark’s point of view. You remember that in the movie where it was like the camera’s swimming. You’re the shark. that was where all that came from was because he couldn’t use a real shark and he had to replicate.
Terry Pluto (44:49.582)
you
Terry Pluto (44:54.274)
Yeah!
Yeah, right. Yeah.
David Campbell (45:07.322)
what a shark would look like. It just goes back to what you’re saying, Terry, about sometimes if you change from one type of writing to another, or maybe you try writing poetry instead of hard news, right? Yeah. Yeah, it’s all good.
Terry Pluto (45:08.259)
on
Terry Pluto (45:17.326)
I did that too. I did that too. All when I was in college. So anyway, that’s a good thing.
David Campbell (45:26.374)
Yeah, cool. All Let’s get into the Guardians here. We are taping this on Wednesday afternoon and the Guardians have brought up right-hander Andrew Walters from Columbus ahead of today’s game against the Dodgers and Nick Enright has been sent back to Columbus after making his major league debut. Walters 24, I think. I think he was a second round pick by the Guardians in 2023 out of Miami, right? University of Miami in Florida. So we’ll see how and when they can use him.
Terry Pluto (45:57.516)
Yeah. Walters starting early last year, was writing about that. were, don’t be surprised if he comes up right away. Cause it is the, he had the type of bio that, could come up fast. mean, for example, last year was his first year in pro ball and he went, he was drafted in 23. didn’t start his pro career till 24. Yeah. He was a competitive balance round B pick by the way.
Mention that because that is the competitive balance round B pick coming up that the guardians will get is part of the nailer trade with Arizona. Anyway, yeah, the guy, the guy has a lot of talent. guess he has sort of a tired shoulder or something this spring, but, um, get somebody else in the bullpen that could help. Uh, I was sad to see Enrico just because the story was so powerful with him. You know, it was, I, it’s leukemia he’s had, believe.
David Campbell (46:53.202)
Yeah, and I think two and a half years of treatment he went through. Really something. So that was a great moment to see. All right. All right, I got a couple of emails here, Terry. Maybe that’ll launch us and we can see where you want to go with the Guardians. But let’s try this first one from Neil in Jamestown, New York. And Neil says, hey, Terry, vote has a philosophy of playing everyone. That is fine with a deep bench. But on Sunday against the Tigers, the bottom of the order was Noel.
Terry Pluto (46:53.985)
Yeah, and.
yeah.
Terry Pluto (47:02.72)
Okay, so yes, they brought up all of us. Okay.
David Campbell (47:20.742)
Wilson, Hedges, and Jones, and they were hitting a combined 160. So how is this play-everyone philosophy working out, and why are Noelle and Jones still in the plan and right? And they are waiting for what to happen to make changes, exactly. Again, that’s from Neil in Jamestown, New York. We have another one here from Adam. Hey Terry, my take is to dump Jones and give Noelle some consistent playing time, and at bats, they have to lose Jones and admit they made an idiotic trade, so.
Terry Pluto (47:22.862)
lord.
Terry Pluto (47:49.27)
Well, I mean, yeah. Well, first of all, Tyler Freeman for Nolan Jones is not idiotic trade. It’s a nothing trade. I mean, just to be, you know, specific, but, all right. First of all, we’ve talked about, and I wrote about CAFES at least a month ago now, I think. And when he was starting to hit, he is hitting right now at triple A he’s hitting three 26.
David Campbell (47:49.458)
That can bring us to CJ CAFIS. Where do you want to go with this, Terry? There’s a lot to work through here.
Terry Pluto (48:14.702)
He’s had 98 played appearances. He’s got four homers, 13 RBI, 326, 956 OPS. And if you roll in what he was hitting at Akron early in the year is 342 with a thousand OPS. Left handed hitter. He’s played 12 games in right field. He’s met by, by, uh, his career has been as a first baseman, but they’re moving him to the outfield and at least he makes contact and things like that. I wanted to see it back then. I want to see it now. Nothing’s changed.
and Nolan Jones, you know, sometimes it’s like, okay, I bought this lottery ticket. That’s when you trade Tyler Freeman for Nolan Jones. That’s what it is. And okay, it’s, by the way, this has nothing to do with anything. So I’m at the airport. This is not like a hoist thing. And with this lady in front of me gets off and she makes a beeline straight for the lotto machine, you know, that you buy at the airport.
And I’m thinking, I don’t know whether she felt lucky on the plane or whatever. I can’t wait to get back home so I could buy a lotto ticket. I mean, what was that?
David Campbell (49:19.046)
Wow, interesting. She must have been feeling it.
Terry Pluto (49:20.782)
I have no other further thoughts. The first time I’ve been feeling it, I don’t think it went well for nights. Cause I saw her take one, was shaking her head and then she didn’t stop her. was going in for more. Yeah, something. Yeah. I don’t know what, I don’t know what it was. All right. So that’s basically what Tyler Freeman for Nolan Jones was. But no, yeah, it’s a, know, maybe, you know, maybe it’s your day, but probably not. anyway, Cafus is to me, he’s just more.
David Campbell (49:30.663)
they were scratch-off tickets, not the drawing. All right.
David Campbell (49:39.548)
A scratch-off ticket, yeah.
Terry Pluto (49:50.57)
intriguing because the downside to me as a hitter is not as great as both whether we’re talking about Nolan Jones or we’re talking about, you know, Nolan Jones or Big Christmas. I mean, I’m looking for his career coming into this year. You know, he struck out 129 times in like 550 at bats, plate appearances. Fine. Let’s take a look at it.
And I want to see it. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.
David Campbell (50:23.762)
Alright, so KFIS you wanna see, we’ve been talking about that for a couple weeks and how that’s a move they should make. I need to ask about Bo Naylor and the catching situation and how you would handle that. So Bo Naylor, they moved him up into the two hole recently and it’s, well, mean Stephen Vogt was talking about how they wanna give him a different look and that he’s in an opportunity, he’s had some good at bats, but it’s not going so well. I think he was 0 for 4 in the loss to the Dodgers on Tuesday. I think he’s what, hitting 191, so.
Terry Pluto (50:26.924)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (50:32.92)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (50:39.086)
Aww, what was that?
Terry Pluto (50:48.756)
Yeah. Nah. Nah. No. No. Yeah.
David Campbell (50:53.808)
back down to the bottom and do you still keep the rotation in a given week the way it is with bone nailer and hedges in terms of who’s catching how many games? What do you want to do with the catching situation?
Terry Pluto (51:05.069)
Yeah.
Well, they don’t have a lot of alternatives. I mean, you keep playing anywhere, but at least one thing when you get from hedges, mean, his fans don’t care about it. I understand that they go, he’s batting one old two or something. Um, but his defense is extraordinary. Um, nah, I didn’t see them on TV for the last week, but I forgot the last game there was twice runners on third and he, he blocked balls that I maybe they were gets, maybe he doesn’t, but not too many players.
Could block those walls. Those are those are run-saving place and he is exceptional for that another aside. So when we’re going through Wyoming we had serious FM and after we do some of these hikes, so we’re kind of let’s catch up on the guardians and that and I’ll tell you it really does make you appreciate Hamilton and Jim Rosenhouse to all the more because they have a nice chemistry together
And so we are listening a little bit to the Twins raw casters. I don’t know who they were, but then again, listening to them, I don’t know what happened in the game because they did not want to ever recap. They just, I don’t understand how serious works all the time, but it seems like you don’t always get, you know, the broadcasters from like your home. I was looking for Hamilton, but anyway, I got the twins. It was terrible. It was a terrible raw cast. I mean, it’s just there.
David Campbell (52:19.22)
Ha
Terry Pluto (52:33.954)
Then I will say this, the Tigers, Dickerson was the main guy there. They were very good. It was much like Cleveland’s broadcast. You know, the guys for the twins would say, and you know, the twins moved ahead on a two run homer in the fifth. And I’m going, well, who hit it? You know, how hard is it? Broadcasters, have to think and remember, our TV guys sometimes don’t do this here, is like, you need to recap. Not everybody is listening to every word and watching every inning.
David Campbell (52:47.794)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (53:03.522)
where I do think Hamilton and Rosie do a very good job of going back over it and the Tigers guys did too. that’s my thought. Anybody, I’m just curious if you, any fans care about that stuff or am I the only one? Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, maybe you came off a trail in Wyoming and you saw a moose. Now you wanna know like what’s going on with these guys. So that was.
David Campbell (53:15.767)
I’m sure I mean you know how it is you’re out doing yard work or whatever you you’ll turn the game on in the third inning and it’s like all right well what happened and
Yeah
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (53:30.51)
That was mine. Cause yeah, we heard the twins guys and then we heard the Tigers guys. And then we got Cami on Monday, our last day of Wyoming for whatever reason, I guess, cause they were playing the Dodgers. I don’t know how serious does this. We were able to find the Cleveland broadcast. So.
David Campbell (53:45.552)
Alright, nice. Alright, what else on the Guardians, So a couple of pitchers, I don’t know if you want to talk about both of them in one thing or not, but Tristan McKenzie is trying to work out the kinks in Goodyear. They’re out there in Arizona trying to get his mechanics back on track and his control. And then Joey Cantillo, they’re having him go down to the minors and they’re going to try and stretch him out from maybe 40 pitches to 40 to 50 pitches to where he can start.
Terry Pluto (53:52.419)
Yeah.
David Campbell (54:10.31)
when they bring him back up. How do you feel about either one of those? I know you always say that if somebody’s not on the roster and not available, they’re no good. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (54:17.39)
Yeah, you can’t tell. Yeah. The Earl, Earl Weaver thing. You’re dead to me, you know, but, but no, and, he would just say, I’m thinking day to day. didn’t, he worked with Hank Peters back then. It Hank Peters. No words would be Hank Peters job, the GM job to fix Tristan McKenzie, but don’t ask me about them till I see them. But somebody needs, you know, McKenzie is such a good person and such a hard worker that it, a lot of times when I say they’re taking a guy.
completely kind of out of circulation, you know, take it back to the garage and break it down. I’ve got, well, that has no chance, but I would say this, if there is a chance of that kind of dramatic move, helping a player, it would be Tristan. Now I don’t know the condition of his arm and that kind of stuff, but, I mean, I would go back. This is a John Hart thing. You don’t know what to do. Have them throw from the stretch and come out of the bullpen. They sort of tried it, but not really, you know, they were all over the place with that.
Now, Cantillo, he’s a left-hander with pretty good stuff and they’re desperate for starting pitching. So why not have them go four or five innings? I mean, right now, even, we used to say if you go six or seven innings and under two runs, you know, they want to build a statue to you. That was like five innings. If you get five innings out of a guy. And I was sad to see what happened with Chaconi? What’s his injury?
I think it was a groin thing or something. Yeah. I tell you, I saw the games, it’s two games. You know, he’s got some pretty good stuff. I think, I think that there’s something there. That’s why they traded for him. and, but this stuff, this is just a never ending quest for, pictures by the way. I mean, we all love Jose Ramirez, but you should hear the tiger broadcasters talking about Jose. It’s like.
This guy’s been killing us forever. And it’s like, he goes, he went down on one knee and he just ripped a double down the left field line. How do you do that? He’s like, know, it’s like, oh, and they, keep rolling out his stats against the Tigers. It makes you appreciate him every, and then the other guy, there’s going, you know, he plays every day. He plays so hard. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. And it’s like,
David Campbell (56:33.734)
He’s like what Miguel Cabrera used to do to Cleveland every year.
Terry Pluto (56:39.886)
I mean, they spoke like in these off-field terms about Jose. And I just thought that was so, and the respect they have for the guardians, you know, because, you know, they’re good every year, you know, they really are. And of course the Tigers are trying to get back to that with AJ Henson and that, and you know, they had a really good year last year in there. So that was, it was fun just to get good broadcasters, I may underline from the opposing team, listening to them talking about the team you cover.
to give a different perspective
David Campbell (57:11.474)
Yeah. All right, Terry. So I’m not trying to be overly dramatic here, but I’m going to contend that I think this is a really big next week for the Guardians coming up. So they’re off tomorrow after they finish the series with the Dodgers today. They have the Angels at home and then they’re off Monday. Then they go to the Yankees next week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then they’re back home against Houston. In the meantime, while they’re in New York,
Terry Pluto (57:20.917)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (57:26.146)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (57:30.222)
Mmm.
David Campbell (57:35.718)
The Detroit Tigers will be playing in Chicago against one of the worst teams in baseball, the Chicago White Sox. And if it’s hard to win in New York, I mean, everybody knows that. I’m just thinking that this CAFUS thing, it might be time for them to start thinking about making some kind of moves here to shake things up because they could look up and be out nine games by the time we’re talking next week.
Terry Pluto (57:54.016)
Yes, yesterday, last week. Yeah, go ahead.
Terry Pluto (58:00.43)
Yesterday or last week was time for that. Okay. I agree. Uh, because you didn’t go to the next series with Houston. Houston always has cause Cleveland, a hard time. So I would say those next six games and with the reds, um, you know, you got the whole Tito thing going on. And I remember that one game, uh, with Tito early on when he beat it, when he, when he beat Cleveland, it’s like, he went at that like a playoff game, the way he used those bullpen guys and that.
I didn’t use this as a closer, like three days in a row in that series or something. So I will roll out lump those nine games together. If they come out of their five and four, I’ll be thrilled. I just think they’re going to be rough games. And then they had go to the West coast, Seattle and that I’m not going to go too far out, but I’m with you on, first of all, you got to get past. got, you got what the, with, yeah, I the angels coming in. Now it’s time to really do something.
David Campbell (58:31.632)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (58:56.382)
against them, win some games and then yeah, the Yankees, I have tremendous respect for Houston. And so, you you don’t want to bury yourself.
David Campbell (59:07.484)
Yeah, I mean, again, not to be overly dramatic. think that I think there’s four teams in the American league who have a better record than the Guardians. So they’re in it. just, think things could slip very quickly here if they don’t kind of start getting things together and, and shoring up this lineup a little bit.
Terry Pluto (59:11.459)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (59:22.698)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, they that kind of thing. And of course, they’re always worried about their starting pitching for good reason. That’s what this Cantillo thing is about.
Terry Pluto (59:33.944)
You know, you look at the miners, it’s just not a lot else coming real quick. It’s really, it’s just a shame I guy breed up, you know, with his thumb, fractured his thumb, cause he was on it. He was really hitting down there and that would have allowed you, cause the second base are filling in with Schneemann and these other guys, you know, that would allow you to go forward. You know, an arias is certainly cooled off at the plate too. It’s a, it’s a challenge. And I, by the way,
I forgot whether it was Neil or whatever the person wrote in about the bottom four, the order on that Tiger Day, that last Tiger Day. You may want to play these guys, you just don’t want to play them all at once in a series. No, you just don’t want, no, don’t do that.
David Campbell (01:00:17.03)
Yeah, it’s hard to win when you, yeah. All right, let’s move on to the Browns, Terry. They are in OTAs this week out in Berea and be sure to check all of our coverage. Again, it’s Wednesday, we’re taping this and we have our full crew out in Berea covering Brown stuff. Today, just go to cleveland.com slash Browns. You’ll see all that today. Mary Kay Cabot, our colleague posted a story yesterday about 10 questions that she has going into OTAs and obviously that
The headlining battle is the quarterbacks and the four guys out there. And Mary Kay said her order right now is Pickett, Gabriel, and then Flacco, Sanders, 3-4 or 4-3, depending on what day it is maybe. But I wanted to ask you, what is your biggest question that you have about the Browns going into OTAs here other than the quarterbacks? Like, what are you most concerned about or eager to see?
Terry Pluto (01:01:08.8)
Okay, one of the things they did is they went in big to keep Miles Garrett. They decided to keep Miles Garrett and not trade him for picks or whatever. And then of course they paid him a gigantic contract. That means you want an elite defense. Will they have it? And now the JOK thing, you know, he’s out for the year and we pray that he would be able to come back flowering year, but he’s done. So in other words, the players that,
they have and the, what’s his, wasn’t sure what’s the name of the kid they drafted from UCL? Yes. Which I’ve heard really good things about from the Browns, what they saw this kid needs to be an impact player. So I will say, can the Browns have an impact defense with that kid being an impact player? That’s one of my big questions because.
David Campbell (01:01:42.738)
Swessinger Carson Swessinger. Yep
David Campbell (01:01:59.238)
I’ve even seen some things about him maybe being a Rookie of the Year winner this year, defensive rookie, because he’s going to play a lot, right?
Terry Pluto (01:02:03.306)
Yeah, mean a lot of a lot and he could play the middle. He’s a tackling machine. They say that kind of stuff. So that’s a, I just think that’s a really good thing. I am confident, you know, we’ll talk about this. It is. I’m confident that Browns will have a good running game between all the kids they drafted and Jerome Ford. I think that’s going to be, that’s going to be really improved. Now, you know, you can always say offensive line just about, it’s sort of like pitching your bullpen.
It’s kind of like every year you’re always kind of worried about your bullpen, even if it’s been good. But I want to just say, well, Svetsinger be that impact guy and will the Browns get back to being a top 10 defense? That so that the other thing, and also then, you know, Jim Schwartz, this is his thing. Now he was a genius two years ago and not so much this last year. can he get the mojo back with the guys they have?
David Campbell (01:02:46.994)
It’s a good one.
Terry Pluto (01:03:01.934)
Would you like one?
David Campbell (01:03:02.492)
Alright, yeah, I’m going to move to the other side of the ball. I just wonder who’s going to catch passes this year. Among the wide receivers, mean, you have Jerry Judy, obviously, but other than that, there’s just a bunch of guys who are just walking question marks like Deontay Johnson. Again, a lottery ticket, right? A scratch off. But here’s a guy who was with three teams last year and none of them wanted him back and they brought him in at the veteran minimum and
Terry Pluto (01:03:21.462)
Yeah, yeah it is.
Terry Pluto (01:03:26.337)
Right again.
David Campbell (01:03:32.934)
this could be it for him, I think, which is a good, if you’re get a guy like him to have him know that it’s his last chance, that might be some motivation.
Terry Pluto (01:03:38.286)
Yeah, it’s fine. But if you’re talking about him, it’s your number two receiver.
David Campbell (01:03:44.082)
Yeah, I mean, he had a 1,000 yard season, I think, back in 2021. so you have what? Cedric Tillman, Michael Woods, David Bell, and Jamari Thrash, who we saw a little bit of flash from last year. it’s like, are, out of that group, you got to find two, three, and even four. As you were saying, I’m just.
Terry Pluto (01:03:48.406)
Who’s your other receivers, what, Tillman?
Terry Pluto (01:03:55.608)
John.
Terry Pluto (01:04:04.622)
You know, I’ve always liked David Bell. I always have. So I’m staying in the David Bell camp. Not that he’s a star, but I think he’d play. Now, from what the Browns people have told me, and I think there’s some legit thought to this by bringing in Fanon from Toledo and then Bowling Green, excuse me. Toledo wishes they had him. Thank you so much. I apologize to Bowling Green fans.
David Campbell (01:04:23.893)
Bowling Green.
David Campbell (01:04:27.814)
We’ll be getting a bunch of emails from our Bowling Green fans otherwise.
Ha
Terry Pluto (01:04:34.092)
Senior moment, remember I’m just off vacation. I’m talking to you. between fan in from bowling green and the Joko, they just believe that they’re going to really get back to throwing the tight ends more. And that can really help them. That’s that’s their thought process. But in the meantime, as you say, it’s a rummage sale after Judy at a wide receiver.
David Campbell (01:05:04.274)
There was a really good story that people should check out. Lance Rysland, who’s our film breakdown analyst, had a post up yesterday. He did a whole look at 12 personnel that the Browns could run with. And for those who know football or don’t, the 12 personnel is one running back in two tight ends. And if your two tight ends are Fanon and Nijoku, that’s a pretty good way to get some matchups. But Lance did a whole breakdown. Check that out. It kind of shows a route tree that Fanon could run if they split them out wide.
Terry Pluto (01:05:25.216)
Hmm?
David Campbell (01:05:31.44)
Yeah, worth your time. check that out. I think that’s a good point here that you’re making is these these two tight ends might be their second leading receiver this year or third.
Terry Pluto (01:05:39.874)
They, I know this, they looked at the receivers versus the tight ends in that third round and they had a much higher grade on fan and then they did on any of the receivers at that point. You know, it always, you could always look back at the draft and see. So that’s why they decided to do it. And I have a hard time arguing with taking a guy that would have cash 114 passes or something like that at bowling crane.
And you know that teams are stacked up trying to stop him. So, um, I’m, I’m good with that. I, I’m not so sure that would deal with Deontay Johnson. don’t know what, I’m, I, know, bringing in guy, I know it’s a scratch off or whatever, um, guys, I much almost prefer a guy coming off an injury than a guy coming off attitude problems.
David Campbell (01:06:19.324)
Yeah, we’ll see.
David Campbell (01:06:34.245)
Yeah, well, we’ll see. And again, it’s low risk and potential reward. If it doesn’t work out, just put them out on the waiver wire and it’s over. So, all right. Well, the Browns will be doing OTAs like we mentioned this weekend next and they’ll be heading into mini camp in June before they take a break for the summer and then return in July for training camp. So, okay, Terry, I think you said you have a book of the week this week.
Terry Pluto (01:06:37.037)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:06:42.071)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (01:06:56.27)
Yes, I do. Pick this one up on Wyoming, but you can get it anywhere. The summer of 1840, excuse me, how about reading the title right? The summer of 1876, the summer of 1876. The author is Chris Weimer, W-I-M-M-E-R. It’s his first book. It’s a history, but it’s written of that summer, which is a summer when...
General George Custer decided he’s going to take on the entire Lakota and Sioux nation and the Cheyennes on top of it. And kind of what all came on there. But he also is like, is the sub head is outlaws lawmen and wudgins in the season that defined the American rest. But this is back when Jesse James and his brothers were holding up banks and getting into shootouts. And when wild Bill Hickok, who kind of went from a sheriff for a little while to professional bank,
gambler got shot in the back and dead, dead wood. And it was a crazy time. was like America came out of the civil war and just everything, you know, the gold rush and, and cards and the expansion. And, uh, there was a feeling like not only that anything could happen in the country growing, but almost anything goes. Uh, and part of the book is spent with the
United States Calvary trying to chase around crazy horse and sitting bull all over the West to catch them and they can’t find them. And also then like half of the, law men in the middle of the country chasing around after the James brothers. it’s just, it’s wild. it’s pretty good history. I mean, I could, as a writer, I could see how I would break the book down a little different to make it even more readable, but.
David Campbell (01:08:34.855)
Ha
Terry Pluto (01:08:46.19)
I read it on four days and summer of 1876 by Chris Weimer. W I E R.
David Campbell (01:08:53.936)
And so sometimes when I travel, I’ll try and find a band that’s from the area that I’m visiting. So you were out in Wyoming reading this and not far from where a lot of this stuff was going down. must’ve been really neat, right?
Terry Pluto (01:08:57.806)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, it was. and some of the areas where they were, were the, mean, crazy Horace was like a great general. And this guy was always like, like they would say cheating, hiding behind rocks and things that ambushing and disappearing. And it’s, he was well ahead of his time. And I just, I just really enjoyed it. And, you know, Custer, the whole.
That thing’s been written about a million times and I’ve read some very good books on it. But I found this part really interesting too of kind of the three guys that were out there leading, guy named Major Reno and a guy named Benteen and Custer and their interactions or lack thereof, that kind of stuff. It’s finally, called off one of the searches for trying to, after the little bighorn where the slaughter.
of Custer Woods and they’re chasing around. finally, one of the generals decide, we’re tired, we’re going home to Fort Lincoln. And his major under him, a named Meir, says, yes, they decided to, we decided to quit because he said, in pursuit of the, in pursuit of the Sioux nation, they just decided not to be found. And we said, that’s fine with us.
It’s kind of like, okay, you don’t want to fight? Well, really neither do we after all this. It was a guy, a guy named Thomas Weir is the guy who said that I believe. But it was, it would just busted me up. And on top of that, I believe he wrote a letter to like one of the newspapers. That’s the other thing these guys would do back then. Sometimes they would like write a letter and say anonymous to somebody else ripping another general.
David Campbell (01:10:27.014)
some way.
David Campbell (01:10:31.974)
Call the whole thing off.
David Campbell (01:10:52.241)
Man, was wild. Everything was wild back then. Yeah. All right, the summer of 1876. Thanks for that one, Terry. All right, I think we’re good here, right? Anything else you want to mention real quick? Okay, I did want to talk for a second about Tom Hamilton. We’ve been asking listeners to send in their Tom Hamilton memories, or maybe you met him somewhere and had some story to tell about that. Just email us at our address, which is sports.com.
Terry Pluto (01:10:52.472)
because we have now we yeah, they just let it rip.
Terry Pluto (01:11:00.364)
Yeah. Okay.
Terry Pluto (01:11:05.014)
That is it.
Terry Pluto (01:11:10.787)
Yeah.
David Campbell (01:11:20.658)
cleveland.com and just put Terry’s talking or Tom Hamilton or both in the subject line. We’ve been getting some really good ones in Terry. So I’m going to load those up. And as we get closer, the hall of fame induction for Tom Hamilton will be the weekend of July 25th, 26th, 27th in Cooperstown. It’s going to be a memorable time and we would love to hear your stories about Tom Hamilton. So send those in and we will try to get those on the podcast as we go along here. So, all right, we’re good. Thanks to everybody for listening. We’ll be back next week and we will see you then on Terry’s talking.