CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, host Ethan Sands is joined by Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins to break down the Cavs’ potential pursuit of New Orleans’ Trey Murphy III.
Takeaways:
Trey Murphy III is a versatile player with shooting and defensive skills.
His offensive upside is still untapped, especially in a better system.
The Cavs’ system is player-friendly, allowing players to maximize their abilities.
Trade scenarios must consider salary cap implications and player fit.
The Cavs need to balance immediate success with long-term roster building.
Trey Murphy could provide rotational stability for the Cavs.
Chemistry among players can enhance team performance.
Max Strus and Trey Murphy could create matchup problems for defenses.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, you know him, you love him. Chris Fedor, Jimmy Watkins. And we have another episode that’s going to dive into this time, a specific trade piece that we’ve touched on a little bit throughout the course of the summer already when we’ve gone through the different variables and different players that we’ve seen that are likely on the market for their various teams and how obtainable they are, this podcast is going to be centered around the Cavs acquiring a player that both Jimmy and Chris have listed as someone that they would go all in on, Trey Murphy iii. Chris, what makes Trey Murphy such a great player and option for the Cavs in this system under Kenny Atkinson, and why do you think he would be able to fill in?
Chris Fedor: Shooting, spacing, size, length, athleticism, a relationship with Donovan Mitchell. I just think he’s the kind of style of player that when you watch playoff basketball, whether it’s the series that just wrapped up between India and New York or the previous one between OKC and Minnesota, you. You can just envision him thriving in that kind of environment. You can envision him playing on either one of those teams and having a critical role. Like, I think there are legitimate questions about how much offensive upside he has. Obviously, every time there’s been an injury or multitude of injuries from New Orleans, his role expands all of a sudden his usage increases, his shot attempts, his touches, all that kind of stuff and his production goes up as well. So I do think there’s some untapped offensive potential. But I also think that he’s somebody who can just like blend into the fabric of a team and be successful as a third scoring option or a fourth scoring option. He can guard multiple positions. He gives you lineup versatility. And like I said, shooting is a weapon for this guy. He is one of the most prolific outside shooters that there is in the NBA.
Jimmy Watkins: One of the rangiest shooters in the league too. There’s an extra modicum of space that Trey Murphy can provide a team that even your run of the mill good shooter doesn’t necessarily provide. Because Trey Murphy not only does can he make from 30, 35ft, he will take, he will take from 30, 35ft. He’s a different kind of range on him. He’s good off the dribble, he’s good on the catch, he’s good on the move. Like, he’s a versatile, versatile, big, versatile shooter offensively. 3.7 assists per 36 minutes. If we start talking about moving pieces around on this team, particularly if Darius Garland is involved, you got to find playmaking somewhere else. 3.7 assists per 36 minutes. Not bowling anyone over. But for a guy of his size at his position, that’s, that’s a good sign. He’s only 24 years old as well. That’s a positive and a negative.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Jimmy Watkins: Any move the Cavs make, you would sink. They would want to accelerate their winning timeline. Right. With Trey Murphy, he’s got 10 career playoff games and in neither of those series was he the player that he is today. The most Recent one was 23, 24. I think they got swept in the first round and he was, you know, 11 points per game on so. So shooting, whatever. That’s a small sample size. But the point is, while I can certainly envision the player that I’ve seen Trey Murphy to be thriving in the playoff series, I still haven’t seen Trey Murphy do it yet. And as we know here in Cleveland, seeing it is a very important part of the process. A very important part of the process. That’s not a statement of concern about Trey Murphy not being able to do that. I think a lot of things about his game translate. It’s just something we don’t know. And the question of maturity. I’ve never talked to Trey Murphy. I don’t know how he handles his business. He seems from afar a guy who’s got a square head on his shoulders, who, who is mentally tough, physically tough. But again, I don’t know. There’s only so much league pass you can watch to learn about these guys makeup when you. Until you get them in your building or do more intel around the corners. Right. You can’t really know. So again, not saying this would be a thing for sure, but the last thing you want is to shuffle all these pieces around on your team, get back to the same point you’ve gotten to before and experience similar struggles. So that’s from three Murphy experience in a nutshell. I’m a big fan, as you mentioned earlier, Ethan, but nothing in this life is guaranteed. And this is Trey Murphy being an awesome fit is falls into that category too.
Chris Fedor: I also think we have to look at something here, guys. For a number of years, so many people had these conversations about put X player in the Golden State system and that guy’s going to thrive or put X player in the San Antonio spurs system and that player is going to. They’re going to find a way to get more out of that player than what another team had previously in New Orleans. I don’t know what they’ve been doing. I don’t think anybody knows what they’ve been doing, what they’ve been trying to do offensively, what they’ve been trying to do with building their franchise. And he’s had all of these impediments that are just ball stoppers and isolation heavy guys. Brandon Ingram just hijacks offensive possessions. Zion Williamson, who knows what he’s out there doing. So if you get him into a better system. The Cavs had the number one offense in the NBA. This is a player friendly system because before they got to the playoffs, it was a democratic approach. Before they got to the playoffs, it was not very predictable. And that just allows guys to blossom, that allows guys to maximize ability. Look at what Evan Mobley was willing to do and able to do in this system. You know, look at what the small sample size of what we saw from DeAndre Hunter. He came in here, it was a seamless fit and he was putting up all these numbers. He wasn’t missing shots, he was getting all these open shots. He was in rhythm. He was thinking to himself, this is great, I love this. And it’s not like he came from New Orleans, he came from Atlanta. That’s a pretty good offensive system too with Quinn Snyder. So now you think about somebody like Trey Murphy and he’s coming from New Orleans, which is just a laughing stock in terms of the NBA over the last couple of years because they’ve had no vision, they’ve had no plan, they’ve been ravaged by injuries, couple of different coaches, no system that looks and feels like the Cavs. And now you start projecting, okay, in this system with this coach surrounded by this talent, what is that going to mean for a player like him? But I do agree with you, Jimmy. I do think there is always a variable here when you’re talking about a team that is very, very close. I don’t think they’re there yet, but very close to championship or bust. And would it behoove you more to go out and find somebody that’s got that playoff experience, Championship DNA? If you think back to what Indiana did, Indiana’s like, we’re missing something. We’ve got a lot of things that we like here. We keep making the playoffs over and over and over again. We’ve got a franchise pillar and Tyrese Halliburton. We’ve got an engine of our offense. We’re missing something. And they brought in a champion. They brought in A guy who was the second most important player on a championship team and there’s just no substitute for that. And when you trade for a guy like that who has shown himself to be a playoff riser, that just takes away one of those variables that makes you a little bit iffy about trading away one of your most important players.
Jimmy Watkins: Tip our caps to Eastern Conference Finals MVP Pascal Siakam, the trade piece in question. But just to underscore Chris’s point about whatever’s been going on in New Orleans, here are the assist leaders for the New Orleans Pelicans since Trey Murphy joined the NBA. You ready? We got C.J. mcCollum. He’s not known for passing, but I think he was about 5.8 assists two years ago. Brandon Ingram. I’m sorry, Brandon. Brandon Ingram. That’s who’s holding the keys to your. This is just assists per game. This is who’s doing the most productive passing on the, on the Pelicans. Last year it was, it was Zion. Remember Point Zion? That was a fun 10 games in another timeline where Zion Williamson prioritizes his body. Maybe Point Zion is a perennial all NBA player, but we don’t, we don’t live in that timeline. And then this year, take your pick between Dejounte Murray, who suffered a season ending injury, and Alfred Payton, who played 18 games because of all the Pelicans, Trey Murphy has just not been in a real. There’s been no real organization on that New Orleans offense or really in the franchise. So yeah, if you were to come here, there would be a big jump in that department.
Ethan Sands: I think we always have to give context on this podcast, right? And that’s at most importance in this situation. Trey Murphy, in whatever situation he is in next year he’ll be coming off a season ending torn labrum in his right shoulder. Obviously he was coming off a career year last year in his fourth year in the NBA, so. And we know as people that have dealt with Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade, shoulder injuries can be tricky to come back from. Maybe a different kind of shooter in Trey Murphy. So hopefully that that would alleviate some of the caution that the Cavs might take in that situation. Chris, in your experience in torn lay rooms in a, in a shoulder, how hard are those to come back from? When you talk about a guy that is not only known for his shooting, but also just creating offense as well and playing defense on that end of the floor too?
Chris Fedor: It depends on the player for sure. And you know, some guys, it messes with their mechanics, it messes with their Release point. I guess you sort of worry about that with somebody who is known mostly for his shooting. But I think there are other parts to Trey Murphy’s game where it’s not. He’s not a shooting specialist, he’s a three level scorer. This isn’t Sam Merrill that we’re talking about, you know. So even if there are some tweaks that he has to make in terms of shooting mechanics and in terms of his release point and stuff like that, you feel like he can still impact the game in, in other ways while he’s working his way through that. I, I don’t think it’s something that’s debilitating. I don’t think it’s something that is going to be a multi year injury. We see guys get injured all the time and they come back and they do the rehab the way that they need to and they’re just fine. Provided that they don’t come back too early, provided that they don’t re injure that. Provided that they don’t mess with too many different things. You know, in season injuries are a little bit different because these guys try and get back on the floor in most cases they try and get back on the floor as quick as they possibly can and they try and show the training staff that they’re ready to go and they start, I don’t want to say shortcutting the process, but you know, not putting in everything that they probably would do in most cases when it comes to recovering from an injury or when it comes to rehabbing an injury and when you talk about a season ending thing and then it extending it into the summer, there’s more of a buffer zone to let it heal the way that you need to and not force yourself back on the court and start, you know, messing with your mechanics and messing with your release point and all that.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah. I would also just add that great shooters adjust however they need to. Trey Murphy, six three point attempts per game for his career, 38% that this man is a sniper.
Chris Fedor: All right, He’s a little bit different than Dean Wade.
Jimmy Watkins: It’s different universe from the kind of guys we’re talking about. And I wonder, I’m not trying to belittle the impact of the role that injuries have played in Isaac Cora or DM Wade’s shooting struggles, but a lot of times I wonder, like with Isaac this year, he was always going to come back to earth a little bit as a three point shooter.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Jimmy Watkins: But I think he was in a stretch earlier in the year where he had a Lot of confidence because he was making shots. Then he stopped shooting for a while, and he had to rebuild his confidence from scratch. And we know where it is on an average day in the basketball season for Eisenhower. I think the same thing with Dean Wade. It’s like the injury is part of this. But the mental fatigue that accompanies injury, the mental challenge that comes with trying to rediscover your rhythm, is harder for your shooters that are going to get left open in the corner in the playoffs than they are for guys like Trey Murphy, who has the defense’s attention at all times.
Chris Fedor: I keep going back and forth on this two guys. Do we think the Cavs would say yes to this deal, this hypothetical deal? And we’re having these conversations on the podcast as almost a series of dream targets, or maybe potentially realistic targets for the Cavs if they choose to go the direction of a significant roster shakeup this offseason. And that’s a big if. But there has to be a deal out there for them to say yes to. That’s the biggest part of this. They have guys in Darius Garland and Jared Allen that are interesting to other teams out there, and I think, as I’ve talked about, I think they’re more willing to listen and consider those options. But considering those options and listening and saying yes and ultimately pulling the trigger on the deal, those are two different things. Do we think this is one that they would say yes to?
Ethan Sands: I think it depends, obviously, on what you’re getting, and I wanted to get into that a little bit more. Jimmy pitched game to us earlier, before the podcast began, that I think we’ll use throughout the summer, and I think it’s a really good idea from Jimmy whether you think this team would rather have this or rather have that and kind of going back and forth with that. And for me, as someone who has been working through the trade machine, filtering through social media, trying to find the best deals, and also, obviously, keeping in mind the conversations that we’ve had on this podcast about what we think might be best for the Cleveland Cavaliers?
Chris Fedor: This is one of the best deals on social media. Are we sure about that as a proving ground?
Ethan Sands: No. That’s why I said filter through, Chris. Filter through. You have to scour through, filter through all these things and then take them to my individual NBA trade machine, see what would work. Right. Okay. So this is one that I’ve been kicking around thinking about, and obviously it entails someone that I have been talking about on this podcast, which I think it is easier to let go than than Darius Garland. That would be Jared Allen in this situation. And Jared Allen paired with Isaac Okoro to the New Orleans Pelicans, including a 2026 first round pick for Trey Murphy. And I’m going to butcher his name, but I’m going to try anyway. Yves and I know that Eve is only a. He just got done with his rookie season.
Chris Fedor: Pelicans would hang up the phone on you immediately. Immediately. See, that doesn’t do anything for them. They would look at that situation and say, we can do better for Trey Murphy iii. We’re only getting Jared Allen.
Ethan Sands: You’re getting Jared Allen. And Isaac could even throw in two second round picks if need be. Right. And obviously they would hang the phone on you.
Chris Fedor: I don’t know who’s making the decisions in New Orleans at this point in time, but they would hang up the phone.
Jimmy Watkins: Joe Dumars. Joe Dumars is the new president over there.
Chris Fedor: Yes. Is he making the decisions? Do we know that for sure?
Jimmy Watkins: That’s.
Chris Fedor: That’s what I’m saying. So the other thing that we have to consider here when having these conversations, because we want to make it realistic as possible. The Cavs cannot aggregate salary without being hard capped. Okay. So sending out Jarrett Allen and Isaac Okoro in the same deal hard caps them. And that is a very dangerous place to be. I think any team in the NBA would probably be willing to do it if it’s for the right move, but that’s a risky game to play. And I don’t think that New Orleans would trade Trey Murphy iii, who at one point was labeled untouchable. That was a reach, but at one point was kind of labeled that early on in his career. It’s obviously different management, it’s a different set of eyes, it’s a different perspective and all that kind of stuff. So you might be able to have somebody making those decisions that don’t have as many ties or emotions attached to a specific draft pick that they made. But Jared Allen for Trey Murphy, I don’t think New Orleans would do that. I think if we’re having a Trey Murphy conversation, it’s got to be Darius. It has to.
Jimmy Watkins: So with Darius, one piece of the puzzle here, and this doesn’t have a ton to do with their basketball acumen. One piece of the puzzle is that Trey Murphy, it was a well timed rookie extension, I guess I would say four year, 112 million. He will not count for more than 16% of the cap.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Jimmy Watkins: Over the next four years. His extension kicks in next year. It’s basically 28 a year. Darius is at 39 a year and he is going to account for at least 24% of the cap until 2728. So you’re actually even you’re getting an extra year of life on this Trey Murphy contract and is considerably cheaper and potentially you’re swapping out a position, a position at which you have a surplus for a position at which you have a need. That’s the case for plus, as the Cavs, like we said, we want to accelerate the winning timeline. You make a Garland for Trey Murphy type move, you can squint and see a way out of the second apron within the next couple of years. It’s easier for you to avoid being a repeat offender and having to make some really, really hard decisions down the road. I don’t necessarily think that should factor as much into your decision making calculus at this stage of the game. For the Cavs, it should all be about what’s the best move I can make to win a championship as soon as I possibly can. But not no decisions are made in a vacuum. Everything is universal. The salary stuff matters too.
Chris Fedor: It does. It also matters in terms of matching salaries in this deal and it does not match. It’s 39 million of Darius and about 25 million of Trey Murphy. So you’ve got to find more money. Kelly ON Linux Expiring gets you pretty close. Now all of a sudden you’ve got an expiring contract that has some value that you can get out of. But if you’re talking about just pure, make the salaries match between Trey Murphy III and Darius Garland, New Orleans is going to have to attach something else. And Olenek is a logical thing because he’s not Herb Jones, he’s not Jordan Hawkins. Maybe the Cavs could pry away Jose Alvarado as a secondary ball handler, as a pesky defender that you can bring off the bench just to pick somebody up 94ft and say, hey, Tyrese Halliburton, deal with this. Derrick White, deal with this. Jalen Brunson, deal with this. Maybe. Possibly. I will say, though, just in general, there is always a risk when you feel like as a team, you’re the one trading away the better player. Darius Garland’s an all star. Trey Murphy III’s not. In saying that, do you feel like you have enough other high level talent to hopefully fill in those gaps that you would lose with Darius Garland and you just say, okay, we understand that we’re not getting better player out of this deal, but we might be getting the better fit we might be taking one player and turning one player into three for our rotation or we might be taking one player, albeit the best one in the deal and turning that into two. And for a team that has 10 guys under contract and needs to fill out the roster, could help them to get multiple players that they feel like are playoff level rotational players. If you’re going to trade Darius Garland, I think that has to be the thinking, right? Just an understanding of we’re probably not going to get the best player in this deal, probably not going to get the most talented player in this deal. But it might be a better fit and it might be somebody who looks to be. And I don’t know about Trey Murphy III, but looks to be more of a 16 game player than an 82 game player. That would be the only line of thinking. And I just keep going back to this. I don’t know. I don’t know that the Cavs would say yes to this one. I think Trey Murphy III would have their attention. I think they would consider it strongly. I don’t think they’d say yes to it though.
Jimmy Watkins: What about some firsts? Some firsts involved here? Maybe two lottery protected or one top 10 protected?
Chris Fedor: Yeah, I mean obviously completely. Because then those turn into trade assets. Assets that you can flip for more help now players or assets that you can use yourself to get young, controllable, team friendly contracts on this roster that you can develop in a system. And with a coach that believes strongly in player development, I think that obviously changes the conversation significantly.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, I’m with you though. Like if the whole conversation about this trade is like, well, look at all the things you’re losing, you know, Trey Murphy doesn’t create enough. Jose Alvarado doesn’t shoot well enough. Looks like if you like Darius Garland so much, keep him. Yeah, that’s cool too. But Trey Murphy plays defense at a higher level than Darius Garland. He shoots pretty darn well. He’s not quite the shock creator, individual shock creator that Darius Garland is, even for himself, but he does a lot of the. You can squint if you. It’s like from kicking and screaming with Will Ferrell when they had the big dude and the little dude form a mega person. If Jose Alvarado and Trey Murphy formed a mega person, it’s like Darius Garland plus, you know, pretty good.
Chris Fedor: I also think it eliminates two complications that the Cavs could continue to run into when it comes to playoff basketball. Number one is every time that Darius is on the floor, they have a huntable player that’s just the truth. There are ways around it. Teams have figured out the right pieces around that specific player or a defensive scheme to kind of COVID up some of those obvious weaknesses. But every time Darius is on the floor, it’s a huntable player, and it’s something that New York has to deal with. Karl Anthony Towns, Jalen Brunson, they’re going to get hunted. Trae Young is going to get hunted. Steph Curry, at one point in his career in the NBA Finals, the Cavs whole goal was attack, attack, attack, attack. And Steph at that point was a better defender than Darius is right now, today. So that’s one thing. And the other thing is the, the small backcourt. And I, I don’t care what Kenny Atkinson says, and I don’t care what president of basketball operations Kobe Altman says. It’s a problem. It’s a problem when you get into the NBA playoffs. The Cavs do not have the same size in the backcourt as some of these other teams that they go against. And it shows itself again. You can find ways around it. You can, but it’s more difficult. You eliminate those two things because all of a sudden your starting lineup is Donovan Mitchell, Max Strust, Trey Murphy, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen. You’ve got size, you’ve got length, you’ve got athleticism, and you don’t have a huntable player. Maybe Max Struse in certain matchups, when he’s kind of like in the post on switches or something along those lines. But that’s very, very different. That’s a very different looking and a very different feeling starting lineup that gives you more of a fighting chance on the defensive end of the floor when it comes to playoff basketball, when it’s about matchups, when it’s about exploiting weaknesses.
Ethan Sands: So let me ask you this, because you said it that way, Chris, you would start Trey Murphy over DeAndre Hunter.
Chris Fedor: Yes. And I would bring DeAndre off the bench and he would be a great six man just like he is.
Ethan Sands: I agree with that. I think that’s good either way.
Chris Fedor: I mean, it just gives you more. You slide guys over one position. Max Spruce is a two. And the guys that he would guard as a two man, very, very different. The kind of size that you have on the floor, very different. The kind of length that you have on the floor, very different. And this isn’t to say that Trey Murphy the third is, you know, Lou Dort caliber defender here or Jaden McDaniels caliber defender here, but he has the tools to Maybe, possibly, if he accepts that role, if he dedicates himself to that kind of way, and at the very least, size and length and athleticism, that bothers guys. It bothers guys in a way that Max Stru guarding the threes that he guards or Darius Garland or Donovan Mitchell, however you want to put it, it’s more bothersome to have somebody like that out there on the floor.
Ethan Sands: That immediately goes a point that we’ve made much, much, much earlier into our days of podcasting together, Chris, where I was talking about Max Druce as a shooting guard and how beneficial that would be for the Cavs, not only because of his shooting acumen, but because of the players he was guarding. Exactly what you said and went into, which is extremely important and valid. But I also think for Trey Murphy, this will be the first time he would be in a defensive system that he would have more help around him. Sure, Jose Alvarado is a great point of attack defender, but you now have the twin towers of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen behind you. And as I was doing research throughout the day, I came to find out that Trey Murphy’s numbers and statistics as a wing stopper last year were less impactful than when he was a help defender in a help role, in a low activity role role in years past. So now you have not only Jared Allen and Evan Mobley as helpers behind you, but you also have pesky Max Stru potentially. You still have Sam Merrill, still have Donovan Mitchell and and all these other players that you can throw at them that not only have length, size and athleticism, but also have the tenacity that is required on the defensive end to match what he’s able to do and give him the help that he needs on the perimeter. And not to mention, we’ve talked about this at an abundance when it comes to DeAndre Hunter, but using Trey Murphy and Kenny Atkinson’s zone seems like it could be extremely beneficial for this team if that’s the way that this Cavs team wants to go with it. And as we mentioned, this is just hypothetically speaking, and Darius Garland and Trey Murphy’s contracts don’t match up, so they would have to find more money to figure things out and complete this trade. But I don’t even want to use this word because it’s gotten thrown around on social media so, so much. But framework is what we’re looking at rather than just the understanding and trying to pitch a trade to the Cavs. Of course, we talked a little bit about other players throughout the podcast on recent weeks. But is there a player that you guys think is more highly coveted on the Cavs list of options that they’re looking for or looking at this summer? And Chris, I know you got the ins and outs of the organization. Do you have a sense of if it’s not Trey Murphy, is there another route that this Cavs organization could be looking to make a bigger splash?
Chris Fedor: Well, if Orlando’s willing to move off Franz, but are they? It doesn’t seem likely. I certainly can’t see the Cavs getting involved in kd. Dan Gilbert won’t even say Matt Ishbia’s name. He’s the owner in Phoenix. He’s that guy in Phoenix to Dan Gilbert. And the same thing when it goes to Matt Ishbia. He doesn’t want to say Dan Gilbert’s name. He doesn’t want to help Dan Gilbert. Could you imagine if KD was a and he helped the Cavs win a second championship and Matt Ishbia found a way to make that happen and he had to watch Dan Gilbert not happening, not happening between those two teams. So I think you just kind of go through the list of quote unquote available or maybe available guys this offseason and you start saying, who are the needle movers? Well, the needle movers are Giannis and kd. They come to mind before anybody else. Boston moving off Jaylen Brown? Probably not. If they were willing to do that. Now we’re talking about another needle mover. Drew Holiday is interesting. He’s a needle mover, he’s a champion. He’s older, he’s not as good of an offensive player, but that dude is a winner. That dude works. When you Talk about a 16 game performer, talk about a playoff riser, him, that’s when he’s at his best. So I think he’s a needle mover in the right situation. If Boston goes that direction, if Boston’s willing to go that direction, those are the three that really stand out to me. Again, if Orlando’s willing to part with Franz, if they think it’s not going to work between him and Banchero because of the shooting or the lack thereof, and they want to reconfigure their roster and they say let’s get a more dynamic point guard to run things, let’s get somebody who’s more capable of an outside shooter, let’s find a way to generate more than 100 points. If Orlando goes that way, that’s a needle mover for sure. But Cat, I’m not saying from the Cavs Perspective in any sort of way, but he could be available and that could change the landscape for some other teams. Don’t think he’s a Cavs target again, but that’s the kind of guy that, in the right situation, back to back conference finals appearances. Yeah, he goes up and down, up and down, and he has these games we’re just like, are you on this planet? What are you doing? Why aren’t you more aggressive? Why are you committing dumb fouls? But talking about an All Star, talking about a top 25, right, 20, 25ish player in the NBA, that changes things for sure. He’s not giannis, he’s not KD. But a top 20 to 25 player potentially available in an offseason certainly changes things. So I think from the Cavs perspective, you know, it’s probably that next tier of guy without Giannis, without KD. You are looking at Trey Murphy, the third. You are looking at Jaden McDaniels and stuff from Minnesota. You are looking at maybe Nas Reed and stuff from Minnesota. Did I say Jalen Suggs? Jalen Suggs and maybe another piece or two. Those are the ones that, that really stand out to me. If the Cavs are looking to shake up their roster and make. And make significant changes, which I’m not convinced that they’re going to. To do, at the end of the day, I’m not convinced that there’s going to be a deal out there that they would say yes to. I don’t think they’re a Zion player.
Jimmy Watkins: No.
Chris Fedor: I don’t think they’re a John player.
Jimmy Watkins: Oh, God, no. I would just be waiting for other teams to make moves and try to shake off. What else is like if Boston, you’re gonna. You’re gonna do some weird stuff because Jason Tatum’s hurt, right? Let’s talk about Derek White. Let’s talk about Derek White. I don’t think Boston wants to trade Derek White, but he’s like Jrue Holiday in the past. Yeah, he’s like Drew Holiday five years ago. Houston has a ton of interesting pieces. A ton of interesting pieces. The midst of them, making a big swing for a star like a. Like a Katie. Maybe the Cavs can finagle one of their role players. Just thinking of teams who are going to be active. Okay, we know you guys want to do something. Let’s help each other out here, that kind of thing. One more thing. On the. On the Trey Murphy front, I was just thinking when we were talking about how logistically he fits in the. The one thing he would give the Cavs something they really haven’t had since this core was together is just rotational stability on the wing. Right? It’s great to be the deep team that has optionality. And on this night we need defense, so it’s Isaac Koro. On this night we need shooting. So it’s Max Struus, Sam Merrill. What if I told you that two of your basically 35 minutes at two positions, two very important positions are being soaked up by DeAndre Hunter and Trey Murphy every night in the playoffs? That sounds pretty good to me.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, I’d agree.
Jimmy Watkins: That’s two dudes who more or less they’re going to bring you or at least have shown in the past. They can bring you the best of both worlds at all times. And we’ve talked about tricky offensive fits, you know, but maxers can slide down to the two. And guess what? Now you got him and Trey Murphy running in circles around defenses who are trying to get. That doesn’t sound very fun to guard whatsoever. As an aside, in the off season, I’ve reacquainted myself with with NBA 2K max. Max Strus in NBA 2K sniper is unreal. He’s just got one of those jumpers that you can time up really, really easy. Real smooth green lights for days. Green lights for days. Max truce. And 2k free tip for the kids out there. Use Max Stroop. Press your friends. But yeah, how about we take all these 15 minutes here, 10 minutes here. We have to worry about hurting feelings in the playoffs and. Oh, you have to. We’re searching for lineups at the end of an elimination playoff game. No start to finish the year. Here’s what we want. One hour win rotation to look like most of the time. And that’s how it’s going to look. There’s value in that, too.
Chris Fedor: Depending on cost. I could see the Cavs having an interest in Jeremy Grant in the past. When he was coming off that run with the Denver Nuggets, the Cavs were interested and then obviously his value went through the roof because of that and it was out of their price range. But that is the kind of guy who has had success in the playoffs. He has elevated his game, his individual game in the playoffs. He can guard multiple positions, he can play multiple positions. I think in the right role, he can be really, really effective. He’s miscast right now in Portland as more of a primary scoring option. That’s just not who he is. That’s not where he’s going to be at his best. His flaws are going to show there, but depending on price, if it is the right price, I could see the Cavs having an interest there. One of the problems is his contract is just really, really high.
Jimmy Watkins: He also. He does feel more like a closer to Jared Allen price range than Darius Garland price range.
Chris Fedor: I’d agree with that.
Jimmy Watkins: I mean, Portland’s got. Their centers are Deandre Ayton and Rob Williams. Is that what they’re running with over there? Yeah. I mean, I liked both of those players at one time, but going forward, I don’t know if either of those dudes are. You want to talk about a team that needs stability at the center position, who would welcome steady Eddie Jared Allen into the fold? That’s. That’s the Portland Trail Blazers right there.
Chris Fedor: Pick and roll. Partner with Scoot. Let’s go.
Ethan Sands: So, just for context and clarification, obviously we’ve talked a lot about his size and abilities and skill set, but Trey Murphy, as listed by ESPN, is 6 foot 8, 206 pounds. He’s 24. 4 years old. He’ll turn 25 in about 17 days on June 18th. And he went to Virginia, of all places. Interesting, right? You talk about chemistry, you talk about camaraderie. Donovan Mitchell, friend. DeAndre Hunter, friend. Ty Jerome, friend.
Chris Fedor: Maybe just because he went to Virginia.
Ethan Sands: Maybe.
Jimmy Watkins: Are he and Evan Mobley the same astrological sign because they were both born in June? This is what we’re doing. It can’t hurt. What is it? I don’t even know what it would be as a cancer Gemini. You have two Geminis in the same locker room.
Ethan Sands: Anyway, we’re not playing crystals over here.
Jimmy Watkins: If you don’t believe in the stars, you dare question the authority of the stars?
Ethan Sands: I’m saying we’re not doing this. 45 minutes into the podcast. I saved that for a different podcast. I’ll have that as the headline Start. Somebody’s the line for the Cavs. All right.
Jimmy Watkins: Somebody’s moon is falling over here.
Ethan Sands: Not only chemistry and camaraderie, and I think it was Indiana that said it after their Eastern Conference finals win. The power of friendship is real. OKC is doing the same thing. Right. So it’s not necessarily. Oh, my goodness. This is a group of all people that know each other. It’s ironic they’re winning together.
Jimmy Watkins: No.
Ethan Sands: Kind of makes a little bit more sense when you think about it that way. Shoot.
Chris Fedor: The Cavs use that throughout the course of the year.
Ethan Sands: 100%.
Chris Fedor: Few teams in the NBA. So many people around the NBA were like, oh, my God. Look at their chemistry, look at how much they like each other. It was a big part of them winning 64 games and if they can.
Ethan Sands: Bolster that by adding another piece, obviously while losing a significant one might be something to consider. But again, these are all hypothetical and as Kobe Altman said in his end of season press conference, he wouldn’t be opposed to running it back. So we’ll have to wait and see what the Cavs end up doing. You will get more of these podcasts throughout the summer and as Jimmy said, if they run it back, if you like Darius Garland, you want to keep them, fine. Let’s see what you can do and how internal improvement works for you again in Kenny Atkinson’s first full summer in Cleveland. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send in your weekly hey Chris questions and this week’s one should be good. So sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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