CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands, Chris Fedor, and Jimmy Watkins discuss the Cavs’ Christmas Day game against the New York Knicks, and the significance of this matchup for the franchise.
Takeaways:
Cavaliers to Play on Christmas Day for First Time Post-LeBron Era: The Cleveland Cavaliers will play the New York Knicks at Madison Square Garden on Christmas Day 2025, marking their first Christmas game since the 2017-18 season when LeBron James was on the team. This scheduling represents significant recognition for the franchise, as Christmas games are considered premier NBA showcase events and teams specifically look for these marquee dates when schedules are released.
NBA Schedule Makers View Cavs and Knicks as Eastern Conference Frontrunners: The decision to feature Cleveland and New York in both opening week and Christmas Day games suggests the NBA views these teams as the most reliable contenders in what’s considered a weakened Eastern Conference. With Boston losing key players, Philadelphia in flux, and uncertainty around other teams, the league is positioning Cavs-Knicks as the premier Eastern Conference rivalry for the upcoming season.
Cavaliers Will Open Season Against Knicks Without Darius Garland: The Cavaliers will likely be without point guard Darius Garland for the season opener against the Knicks and potentially beyond. His absence, coupled with the loss of backup Ty Jerome, creates significant challenges for Cleveland’s backcourt rotation to start the season. The hosts emphasized that without Garland, the Cavs aren’t the “full picture” of what they’ll be throughout the regular season.
Christmas Day Schedule Features Five High-Profile Matchups: The complete Christmas Day schedule includes: Cavaliers vs. Knicks (12pm ET), Spurs vs. Thunder (2:30pm), Mavericks vs. Warriors (5pm), Rockets vs. Lakers (8pm), and Timberwolves vs. Nuggets (10:30pm). The hosts noted the absence of Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks from the Christmas slate as surprising given his star status in the league.
Performance in Marquee Games Could Shape Cavaliers’ National Perception: The hosts emphasized that the Cavaliers must perform well in these high-visibility games to maintain their newfound spotlight. Jimmy Watkins specifically noted that if Cleveland “puts up a stinker on Christmas Day,” that negative perception will likely stick with them until the playoffs, regardless of their regular season success. These games represent opportunities to change the narrative that the team “can’t handle big stages.”
Evan Mobley Faces Critical Opportunity for Star-Making on Christmas Stage: Chris Fedor identified Christmas Day as a “huge stage for Evan Mobley” to establish himself among the NBA’s elite big men. Despite his impressive resume with two All-Star selections and Defensive Player of the Year honors, Mobley hasn’t had the national spotlight to showcase his talents to casual fans. The hosts discussed how becoming a true NBA superstar requires both on-court excellence and developing a marketable persona or signature style.
Cavaliers Need to Establish Identity Without Ty Jerome: Beyond Garland’s absence, the hosts highlighted the departure of backup point guard Ty Jerome as a significant challenge. Questions remain about who will run the second unit, provide consistent bench scoring, and how much playing time Lonzo Ball might receive as the team navigates these rotation changes early in the season.
NBA Christmas Games Represent League’s Premier Regular Season Showcase: The hosts discussed how Christmas Day has become the NBA’s closest equivalent to an “event-based” showcase in a league that’s primarily volume-based. For casual fans, “the NBA season begins on Christmas Day,” making these games disproportionately important for shaping public perception of teams and players, despite being regular season contests.
Star Power and Personality Drive NBA Popularity Beyond On-Court Success: An extensive discussion highlighted how NBA stardom requires more than just basketball talent—it demands marketable personality traits, signature moves, or distinctive styles. The hosts compared Darius Garland to more popular players like Trae Young and LaMelo Ball, noting that despite Garland’s aesthetically pleasing game and possibly superior basketball skills, he lacks the “thing” that separates him in fans’ consciousness.
Cavaliers’ Schedule Includes Four Nationally Announced Games So Far: Beyond the Christmas matchup, the Cavaliers have had three other games announced: their season opener on October 22nd in New York against the Knicks, October 27th in Detroit, and January 19th at home against the Oklahoma City Thunder. These national television appearances represent the increased recognition the team has been seeking, with Donovan Mitchell having specifically advocated for more national exposure for the franchise.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen onApple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins. And fellas, we got our first piece of news for the new season 2025-2026, and the Cavs have had a couple games announced, obviously starting off with the number one game of the season. October 22nd in New York against the New York Knicks. October 27th in Detroit, January 19th at home against the Oklahoma City Thunder. But the big one that was announced, December 2025, Christmas Day in New York, where the Cavs will get to play against the New York Knicks. And I know you guys may have heard Donovan Mitchell over the last year or so asking for a Christmas Day game, especially because this Cavs team has been vying for more viewership when it comes to the NBA, has been vying for more notoriety, more respect from the NBA when it comes to their coverage. And this is a big step. This is a big thing. But I don’t know if Donovan Mitchell was necessarily asking for a road game for Christmas. Chris, how long has it been since the Cavs have played in a Christmas Day game? What do you see this as significant wise when it comes to this team getting what they were wanting and fighting for all of last season, when it comes to the coverage of this team and the respect around the league?
Chris Fedor: Yeah. Thanks, Donovan. Traveling on Christmas Eve, working on Christmas, Woo. Certainly wasn’t going to be at home. I mean, there’s only one other Eastern Conference team that’s playing on Christmas Day and it’s the Knicks and they host on on Christmas Day. They bring everybody to famed Madison Square Garden. It started in 1947. So yeah, I mean, the Cavs in New York, Christmas Day, it is a big deal for this franchise. You know, every time that the schedule is released or components of the schedule is released, the first thing that these teams look for, members of the organization, the first thing they look for are these kind of marquee dates. Are we playing opening night? Are we playing on Christmas? Are we playing on MLK Day? Are we playing on Easter? So this is what the Cavs wanted. This shows kind of the rise that they have made in the post LeBron James era. It’s very notable that it’s the first time that they’re playing on Christmas in the post LeBron era. The last time that they played was during the 2017-18 season against the Warriors. That obviously had. It could be LeBron’s last season in Cleveland, Finals rematch against the warriors. It just became a thing. During those four years that the Cavs and Warriors were going to play on Christmas, was it going to be in the Bay? Was it going to be in Cleveland? That was really the only question. I also think this shows that the league schedule makers view New York and Cleveland as the top two teams in the Eastern Conference. There is a built in rivalry there that started in the 2023 playoffs and they’re trying to amplify that as much as they possibly can with the two teams playing opening week and Christmas Day. Because the east, it’s viewed as down. It’s viewed as not as formidable as the Western Conference.
Jimmy Watkins: Is it viewed as down or is it down or is it just down? Both.
Chris Fedor: A little bit of both. But the schedule makers have to see it the same kind of way, right? They can’t be like, hey, how about you, Atlanta? Here’s a marquee dates. Hey Orlando, welcome to Christmas. Hey Boston without Jayson Tatum, without Drew Holiday, without Kristaps Porzingis. Let’s go. Peyton Pritchard. No, it’s not going to happen that way. So there is uncertainty in the Eastern Conference and the two most certain teams that there are Cleveland and New York. And I’ll say this, this is what the Cavs wanted. This is what they were hoping for. They cannot go out and lay some stinkers in these marquee dates. And I know Kenny Atkinson and the players have talked about, hey, regular season doesn’t matter. Hey, it’s all about playoffs for us. But when you ask for these things, you have to deliver. And they have to treat these games as bigger than just random regular season games because they are going to be in the spotlight, people are going to be paying attention. And it’s one thing to get that spotlight, but you have to hold on to that spotlight as well.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah. The reality is that these, these Christmas Day games, I have, I have many NBA schedule intakes. I don’t think we need to be rolling out the schedule like it’s the NFL schedule. I don’t think the NBA really understands itself very well. That’s what it’s showing me by doing this. You are a volume sports entity. You are not event based. Christmas Day is the closest thing that they have to event based. If you want to release the Christmas Day games as a separate thing every year, I get it. The NFL’s kind of stealing Christmas from you as well though, so that’s losing relevance too. But Chris is making a good point there where for the casuals, the NBA season begins on Christmas Day. And that’s when they they start to tune in. Here’s the thing. Not that we should be caring about the casuals. We know this podcast is for the true heads. But I’m just saying, oftentimes when Cavs are complaining about noise and perception, they’re complaining about casual fans. And those people put a lot of stock in those Christmas games. Those people already think, and they have reason to think that the Cavs are soft, can’t handle big stages, mentally, don’t have the wherewithal to handle adversity, all those things. So if you come out on Christmas Day and get smacked, there’s your perception until April. That’s just what it is. And by the way, even if you win, you probably can’t change that perception. It’s not a fair game. Not a fair game. That’s just how it’s played. Okay, said that. Also, as that other aside, if you want to get some entertaining Hawks related Christmas content, let’s get Trey Young and the Hawks front office to do some contract negotiations at mid court. I want to see Trey Young trying to get the max is one of my favorites. 20, 25, 26 NBA storylines and the Hawks are just like, ah, well, maybe we’ll wait until next year. The Hawks are like, it’s like, it’s like inverse Donovan Mitchell where Donovan Mitchell is like when he signed his extensions. Well, it actually makes sense for me financially to wait here. That could get more money and the Hawks are doing that actually for us. It just makes more sense for us to see now that we’ve built a really good roster to see whether you’re worth that money. I also just think asking to work on Christmas is nuts, man. I get it’s a status thing. Although I would reiterate, I think this, this Christmas slating of Cav nicks is as much about Tyrese Halliburton being gone and Jason Tatum being gone as it is. All right, the CAVS earned it.
Chris Fedor: 76Ers being in and the 76ers being fired.
Jimmy Watkins: But like OKC Indiana would be a natural Christmas matchup. Finals rematch, Boston, you can pencil them in when healthy into the Christmas lineup every year. The Knicks are on Christmas every year. Kansas. This is still kind of a redheaded stepchild. I’m not trying to be a hater right now, but this is still kind of like a okay, fine year. What’s around yeah, you did. You did okay. You did win 60 plus games last year. We’ll put you in the spot. There’s just no one else to put there. I don’t know that this is like a cabs have arrived statusy thing. I think it’s some of that, but it’s, there’s, there’s a lot of context involved there. I, I, but, but still, when I saw his announcements, I was just fingers crossed. Please be in New York. Please, please be in your. Yeah, because I know cleveland.com’s not sending me to New York on Christmas Day. And I would hate as cool as an NBA status thing as it is to play on Christmas. Players say they love it. You know who doesn’t love it? Players. Families. I would just hate this to have to work on Christmas every year.
Chris Fedor: I will say this hotel rates for that game. I’ve already looked them up. Pretty outrageous in New York, especially if you’re talking about Manhattan close to the arena. That’s a good point though, Jimmy. I was thinking about that yesterday. If Boston was right and Jason Tatum was healthy and they still had the status that they did. I don’t think the Cavs are on this slate because you’re not taking the Lakers off, right? Hello, it’s LeBron and Luca. You’re probably not taking the Mavericks off. Cooper Flag, Anthony Davis. They want Cooper Flag to be potentially the next torchbearer for, for this NBA and what it’s going to be into the future. So you’re probably not taking them off. You know, ant has more notoriety than anybody for the Cavs at this point in time. The Nuggets have become a staple on Christmas. So you start like looking at all the different teams and why they’re on there. And yeah, some of it is what the team is and what the league thinks about them as a team and the kind of draw that they are. But Christmas Day historically has been about like an entity. The guy, the fact that Giannis is not playing on Christmas Day, that is outrageous to me. He is one of the three most important players in the league. He’s one of the three best players in the league. He is a mega star. He draws eyeballs. And I know that the Bucks are just a disaster and you don’t know what to think about them because of all of the stuff that they’ve gone through this off season. But it’s Giannis, the fact that he’s not there, that’s crazy to me. But nonetheless, like, you either look at the team or you look at the individual player and what kind of draw he’s going to be on Christmas. And if, if Boston was right, if Indiana was right, I, I just don’t know that there’s a team that you would take off and say, okay, Cavs or okay, Donovan Mitchell. Right, Maybe the Rockets. But they have like all the excitement around the KD edition and they were a really good team last year as well. So I do think it’s a little bit of, you know, things played in the favor of the Cavs the way that they needed to for them to get on Christmas. But like the why for them at this point? Because they’re locked into that slate and it’s a marquee date on the NBA calendar. The why can’t matter for them and they just have to take advantage of this opportunity and show that they belong on Christmas, not just for this year, but next year, the year after and the year after. So it’s up to them to put on a show. No pressure.
Ethan Sands: No pressure at all. And obviously Chris kind of alluded to it, but I wanted to go through the Christmas Day lineup for games cool to watch after the Cavs. So the Cavs play at Madison Square Garden in New York at 12pm Eastern Time on Christmas Day and the Cavs versus the Knicks is the first game. So everybody’s going to be watching that.
Jimmy Watkins: Game unless there’s football on.
Chris Fedor: Sorry, just reality.
Ethan Sands: Then you have the spurs versus the Oklahoma City Thunder at 2:30, the Dallas Mavericks versus the Golden State warriors at 5:00′, clock, the Houston Rockets versus the LA Lakers at 8, and the Minnesota Timberwolves versus the Denver Nuggets close out the slate at 10:30pm on Christmas Day. So guys, I know we talked a little bit about the Christmas Day schedule and Jimmy, I think you’re absolutely right that if the Cavs put up a stinker on Christmas Day against the Knicks, that is going to be their reputation until they can shake it off, which will take a good amount of time. But I also think them playing the Knicks in the first game of the season is kind of like, hey, we know you guys got off to this 150 start last year. You have to set the tone against arguably the second best team in the Eastern Conference from the get go. What do you guys see and what do you guys think about the matchup to start the season against New York in New York and how that could set the tone for the Cavs obviously without Darius Garland and trying to figure out what the Cavs are going to be able to do for however long Darius is out.
Chris Fedor: Well, look, for me, I think when you talk about opening night, when you talk about these marquee dates, and I know that it’s not opening night in the NBA, but opening week, regular season opener, all of that stuff. If, if you’re talking about putting them in the national spotlight, you’re trying to have a backdrop of a specific story that you’re telling. And I think the story in the Eastern Conference is that there’s uncertainty, but there’s also these two entities in Cleveland and New York that are considered the top two teams in the Eastern Conference, the teams that could battle for the conference throne. And I think you’re trying to amplify those teams as much as possible. And that’s not to say that Orlando can’t get there by the end of the season. They might be there by the end of the season. It’s not to say that, you know, Atlanta is not considered to be an ascending team that could. Could do what Detroit did last year, that could do what the Cavs did a couple of years ago, where they sneak their way into the top six, they sneak their way into the top four. That could happen. But. But that’s not how you start the season. You try to find, like, the most certainty that you have when you’re amplifying what. What you’re trying to tell the story of. And the most certainty that you have in the Eastern Conference is that the Cavs are going to be good. How good is the question. The Knicks are going to be good. The Knicks think about their playoff runs. The last couple of years, they’ve been a mainstay, even though there’s been so much conversation about Boston and there’s been conversation about Cleveland. And then, of course, you talk about what Indiana did to rise into the NBA Finals. You know, the Knicks have been a mainstay in the Eastern Conference. So you have them, and they didn’t make too many changes. Obviously, they have the new coach and stuff like that. But if, if you’re putting a schedule together, you feel pretty good about the Cavs and the Knicks going into the season. You feel the best in the east about the Cavs and the Knicks going into the season. And the whole first week can’t just be Western Conference, Western Conference, Western Conference. You know, you have to find two teams in the east that you feel good about. And I think Orlando’s in a prove it mode. I think Atlanta’s improve it mode. I think Detroit still to some level, is prove it mode, and the Cavs are prove it mode. But in the playoffs, at the very least, you know that the Cavs are good, the Knicks are good. So you take what you think are the most Reliable pieces of what’s left of the Eastern Conference and just put them in the national spotlight for the opening week.
Jimmy Watkins: You’re also trying to build a season long arc here. You know the west will take care of itself. The west is unbelievable. Bloodsport wars during the Western Conference playoffs that will sell itself. They also. There’s just a disproportionate amount of the league stars is in that conference right now. So the Cavs and Knicks are the leagues. Like hey, can one of you guys please make the finals so we can get people from. I mean the Knicks. Honestly, this is about. It’s more about the Cavs than the Knicks. The Knicks are the Knicks. Spike Lee will be sitting courtside. We could do celebrity or o. Jalen Brunson. Well, not like Jalen Brunson. Not enigmat. I would not say he’s like very super charismatic. Although I do like roommate show. From the clips I’ve seen. He’s more like. He’s more like. But he’s more like even there he’s like straight guy. He’s like deadpan kind of humor where Josh Hart sort of brings the fun.
Chris Fedor: Right.
Jimmy Watkins: I digress. There’s my quick New York Knicks podcast review for you. He’s. He’s just fun to watch. He’s a character. It’s New York. Carl Anthony Towns is a character that, that people are familiar with. The Cats. Here’s more brutal truth. Cats are kind of like a season long foil for the Knicks. If we’re talking story arc, the Knicks are the big sell. It would be. I mean no one would ever say this. People truth serum in the league’s off leagues front office people. They are rooting for a New York Knicks Eastern Conference championship run. Of course that would be the best thing for the final ratings for the league product for star shaping. Like hey, what’s the best way to turn Anthony Edwards, Shay, Gil, just Alexander, whoever you want to say that you want to anoint as the next league tour spirit. Have a mean muggin Spike Lee at mid court, put him in front of the New York audience. Like attract as many. Yeah, it’s attract as many. Get Chalamet dapping them up courtside. Like that’s. That’s what this is about. And then the Cavs as a result have an opportunity because they are by NBA storyline standards this year the Knicks enemy. They are the biggest challenger to an MSG finals. We’ll get Coco Jones celebrity row shots. Right? Congrats Donovan. Congrats Donovan getting engaged. Beyond that though, like from a what like what does this opener mean for that? I’m max Stru on this, man. It doesn’t matter. Yeah, it really doesn’t matter. Like, like I just said, the game is not fair. If the Cavs look bad in some of these big regular season spots, people are going to have big picture takeaways. If they look good, people are going to say, and by the way, it’s me, I’m people. Hello. Yeah, I’m going to say, I don’t care because you do it. That’s just what it is. And that’s why this regular season such a challenging slog for them. And I don’t know that I think we’re going to be able to have many big picture basketball takeaways. But as we talk about on the show, sometimes, sometimes this is a people sport and I think this is going to be a really interesting people regular season because you have so much fuel from last year that you want to tap into and you have this revenge arc but you cannot even begin to scratch it until the playoffs begin.
Chris Fedor: The other thing is, like as Ethan said, there’s probably going to be no Darius Garland for opening week. So that season opener against the Knicks of some of the players that you have questions about with the Cavs, like Darius is one of them, obviously, and we’ve talked about that a number of different times on this podcast. So what the Cavs look like for the season opener against New York, what their lineup looks like, and for all the questions about Darius, for all the concerns about his defense and whether he can handle playoff level physicality and intensity and is he going to wear down by the end of the season because of the way that his body is set up and all those different things? He is one of the more important players that the Cavs have. He’s one of the more notable players that the Cavs. He’s a two time all Star. So not having him for the Cavs is a big deal. Given that, like I don’t see them ripping off 15 straight wins to start the season. I don’t see them ripping off 20 straight wins to start the season. That’s going to be a hurdle for this team, especially on the heels of losing Ty Jerome. Losing Ty Jerome is something that the Cavs are going to have to navigate here. Where is the consistent scoring going to come from off the bench? Who’s going to run the second unit? Like, who’s going to be that steady guy that without your top point guard, somebody slides into that spot? How much are you going to play? Lonzo ball in the regular. Like, all those different things play into how successful the Cavs are and how many wins they bank at the beginning of the season. So, yeah, you still have Jalen Brunson versus Donovan Mitchell. Yeah, you still have Cat and Evan Mobley. And obviously when you talk about the Christmas Day stuff and opening week, you’re going to celebrate those players, those individual players, and you’re going to put them in the promos and the teasers and stuff like that. But the Cavs not having Darius Garland, they’re not the Cavs. They’re not the full picture of the Cavs and who they’re going to be throughout the regular season.
Ethan Sands: So let’s fast forward to Christmas Day game to wrap up today’s podcast. Darius Garland potentially healthy, potentially back. I love shifting through social media to see what people’s expectations are for somebody who, one, isn’t going to be ready to start season and two, like, has had some good games at Madison Square Garden and they’re calling him or they’re calling the arena Madison Square Garland. And I’m like, okay, so I think the expectation for Darius one is going to be interesting.
Chris Fedor: First of all, who’s calling it Madison Square Garland?
Ethan Sands: I literally searched it up on Joe in Strongsville. No, no, no, no, no.
Jimmy Watkins: Over under five tweets. I’m going way under.
Ethan Sands: No. Come on. Hold on. Free fee on X. We are ready for Madison Square Garland Midwest trifecta cavalanche at Madison Square Garland. Madison Square Garland on Christmas will be glorious. Ohio’s very own Madison Square Garland. Like, this is dating back to 2023 when people are using this. I’m just not hearing about it.
Chris Fedor: But. But you spend too much time on social media. That’s what this tells you.
Ethan Sands: I just looked it up. See what, what people were saying about.
Chris Fedor: Darius Garland or you follow the wrong people.
Ethan Sands: No, no, no.
Chris Fedor: Social media.
Ethan Sands: I didn’t follow them. I don’t follow them. I, I literally just searched up Darius Garland and the first thing that came up was Madison Square Garland because they just announced the Christmas Day game and everybody is so hyped about this game and they’re like, Darius is going to be back. He’ll be ready to go with that notion. When you talk about just the expectations for Darius when he gets back, obviously, Chris, you talked a little bit about him still being on a minute restrictions potentially and all of these things for this season. We’ve talked about some of the players that we feel like are quote, unquote, on the hot seat, quote, unquote have the most to prove in the 2025, 2026 season. Especially when it comes to proving that the lights aren’t too bright for this Christmas Day game. Do you feel like there’s more eyes on anybody else other than Darius Garland to perform when it comes to this Christmas Day game? Especially because he’ll be coming off an injury?
Chris Fedor: Oh, I think it’s a huge stage for Evan Mobley. Big time, big time, big time, big time. It’s. It’s really his first real opportunity in the spotlight. I think a lot of people know Evan Mobley. They know of him two time all star defensive player of the year. But if you want to be in the same conversation as Wemby, if you want to be in the same conversation as Giannis, you know it’s hard for him because he shares the spotlight with other guys on his own team. Donovan Mitchell being the main draw. Donovan Mitchell higher profile guy than Evan. But I do think it’s a huge opportunity for the casual observer to get to know Evan Mobley and what he’s all really about. And if you think about just the setup on Christmas Day and what it means, Wemby, Cooper, flag, those type of players, Evan wants to be that type of guy as well for the next five to seven years, for the next seven to 10 years. And this is an opportunity for him to have eyeballs on him that aren’t usually on him. Big time stage for somebody like Evan Mobley, this is the kind of stage that he just hasn’t had and it’s a great opportunity for him.
Jimmy Watkins: Evan Moby’s such in a tough spot in that regard though. You’ve talked a lot about the challenges of playing with two ball dominant guards when you’re a big man trying to carve you out, carved yourself out a superstar size role. We know that’ll be a focus throughout the season. Being a star is as much about your off court Persona as it is your game. And set aside the fact that Evan Moby is pretty introverted and is pretty soft spoken. Donovan Mitchell is just really cool, man. That’s just the tough guy to have to become a star. Like a capital S star. Next to this dude’s got a signature shoe. He’s got all these sponsorships.
Chris Fedor: Yeah.
Jimmy Watkins: Got a celebrity significant other. He’s got a really aesthetically awesome game. Like Donovan Mitchell is just a. He’s got a great nickname that he gave himself. How cool you have to be to make it work by giving yourself a nickname. Come on. Like that’s, that’s just Tough. That’s tough for Evan Mobley to deal with. By the way, for the Madison Square Garland folks out there, you are Darius Garland’s career splits at against the New York Knicks.
Chris Fedor: Oh, don’t do it.
Jimmy Watkins: In 17 career games. Now this is, this is basketball reference doesn’t sort home in a way. It’s just this is that these are his numbers against the knicks. But it’s 17.9 points per game, 6.1 assists, 2.8 rebounds, 41% shooting, 42% from three hooray. 79% free throws. That’s down in every category from his career average except for rebounds and three point shooting. So maybe he is awesome. Specifically at Medicine Square Garden. I didn’t have time while Chris was talking to Sword that far, but this nickname is silly.
Chris Fedor: To your point about the Persona of, of Evan Mobley, Tristan Thompson was trying to get this across to some of the young players over the last couple of years. Specifically Darius Garland about you have to have your thing. You have to have your thing that you’re known for. Maybe it’s a celebration, maybe it’s a specific look, something that separates you and Ethan. I think you and I have talked about this on the podcast and I think we talked about it around the time of All Star voting. Is Darius ever going to be more popular than Trey Young? Is Darius ever going to do something that separates him from Trey Young? And that was just a specific example. But there’s all these point guards in the Eastern Conference and there’s all these point guards in the NBA and what can you do to separate yourself and become more popular or more known than those guys? Because this is an entertainment business. And that’s what Tristan Thompson was trying to get across. He’s like, this is an entertainment business. Yes, we want to win championships and with that comes notoriety. But when you say the name James Harden, you immediately say the beard. Boom.
Jimmy Watkins: Done.
Chris Fedor: When you say Victor Wembanyama, you think alien. Boom. Done. You know what I mean? Trey Young, you think about the things that he has done throughout the course of his career and the shiver and the rolling the dice and becoming the Madison Square Garden villain because of what he did to that team in that environment in the playoffs. And Donovan Mitchell has understood that. Donovan Mitchell gets that. And I just wonder if Evan Mobley is ever going to allow himself to understand that and morph into that. He’s starting to be a little bit more demonstrative. He’s got the three point celebration, he’s roaring a little bit more. I’ve been around him a couple of times this offseason. He’s carrying himself a little bit differently. There’s more confidence to him, there’s more swag to him. The question is, is that going to carry over to the basketball floor? Is that something he’s comfortable doing on the basketball floor? It remains to be seen. But. But I think that is something that, that people inside the organization, Tristan Thompson mainly have been trying to get across to these guys. Because if you do want to be a megastar, if you do want to be face of the NBA type, if you do want to be torchbearer, it’s not only your talent that’s going to allow you to do that. It’s not only the individual accolades. And if you look at the resume of Evan Mobley, my God, this early in his career, it’s pretty impressive. But to take that next step, there’s more that goes into it and we’ve talked about it on this podcast about do you understand everything that’s required to be a star, Capital S star. And that’s something that Evan Mobley is going to have to figure out if he’s going to be that guy, if he wants to be that guy.
Jimmy Watkins: Two quick things off of that, number one. And I think it really just starts with Evan Mobley. Put yourself out there, which is a big comfort zone. Push. Yeah, you’re gonna have to do more interviews, you’re have to go on some podcasts, you’re gonna have to appear in some commercials like in Theory Evan Mobile. We could end up being Tim Duncan where the winning is so overwhelming that it doesn’t matter, you just don’t need it.
Chris Fedor: And with Tim Duncan era that’s true.
Jimmy Watkins: That’s a great, that’s honestly a great point. And with Tim Duncan his, his thing became. He doesn’t really say much like that was mental and it was okay. And and by the way, I think it hurts Tim Duncan in all time conversations like ask the ask the average NBA fan even like a really in like not. We’re not talking casuals. Tim Duncan, Kobe. That’s conversation that tells me everything I need to know about how much you know ball Tim Duncan over Kobe is the correct answer. But the Kwakoby has this Persona around him. The black Mamba people. People argue Kobe as the goat, the joke because. Because of the draw, because of the magnetic personality, because of how beautiful. I mean Kobe Bryant played beautiful basketball. Beautiful basketball. And Tim Duncan hit 1010 Quick jump books a night and played awesome defense and all that other stuff and was an by the way, it’s still an incredible. Tim Duncan made like a third team all NBA when he was like 39. We don’t need to get into this. I actually don’t think it’s that close between those two. But it’s a conversation because of the difference in personality. I think, I think. And Kobe won five rings. Obviously three of them was Shaq and he wasn’t the best player on his team. That’s neither here nor there. I also think that the Darius Trae Young Lamelon Chris introduced the Darius Trey Young conversation. Lamelo might be more popular than both of those two. And my goodness, you’re asking me to pick between my two favorite empty stat sons here with, with Trey and Lamelo. But it’s just, it’s such an interesting comparison because I, I think I and many knowledgeable NBA fans would take Darius Garland over Trey Young and LaMelo Ball. I’m trying to. Again, let’s assume the goal is to win basketball games. But that’s not how he’s viewed. He is. He is viewed by, by the, the merchandise purchasing public as a cut if not a cut and a half below those two guys. And, and the interesting thing is Darius has a very aesthetically pleasing game.
Ethan Sands: He.
Jimmy Watkins: He throws crazy no look passes he can pull up from anywhere on the court. He can put gar. Like he can cross a dude up. Like there’s. There’s nothing that I can point to at Darius Garland’s game and say oh, he’s missing like this. That there’s nothing robotic about it. It’s really fun. But Trey Young and LaMelo Ball have their thing. I don’t, I don’t know. I mean Lamelo, in fairness, lamelo Ball’s thing is just tick tock highlights. I guess. I don’t like, I actually kind of struggled to understand what LaMelo Ball’s thing is. He just has this. He was something of a child celebrity that, that caught up that his wave has just has just followed him. But it’s true what, what Chris is saying. Like it’s not. You can’t just win and expect. Expect the, the fame and whatever you want out of stardom to follow. Like you kind of have to play the game bigger topic for another day. But I also wonder if this is like a generational thing where because these guys have social media, they don’t feel like they have to put themselves out there in mainstream or not even, not even mainstream media. Media in general. Guys do less media because they can control their message from social media. And I think That I wonder if that hurts their brand a little bit sometimes too.
Chris Fedor: This, this is all to say, big, big stage, Christmas Day for Evan Mobley. Big opportunity for Evan Mobley.
Ethan Sands: When I think of stardom, when I think of somebody who has risen to fame, risen to celebrity status probably quicker than anybody else, I think of Anthony Edwards. I think I’m coming into the league at 19 years old. You get a nickname in your first season, Ant man, and you back it up because you got the Adidas deal, you got the shoe, you got the commercials, you have the playstyle, you have the jaw, you have all of these things that matches up with the Persona. And I’m not saying Evan Mobley needs to be that, because he’s not that. But I think he’s also showing that he’s not Tim Duncan. He’s a calm, chill dude, but, like, if you rile him up enough or he’s also growing into this. And one of my favorite things that Anthony Edwards said was like, I’m doing this at 22, imagine what I did to 25, 26, 27. And Evan Mobley is about to cross over into that threshold where at 24 years old, now you’re going to get to 25, 26. And this is when it’s really, you’re going to show who you are as a person, who you’ve grown into. And the last thing I want to say before we get out of here, just a little cleanup thing. Jimmy Donovan did not give himself his nickname. He got it from an AAU dad. I think he was like when he was nine, the guy’s name was Al from Jersey, and he gave nicknames to everybody on the team. And the reason he gave Spider his nickname was because he could spin a web.
Jimmy Watkins: At NBA level. He gave it to himself. He said, that’s what people like. That’s not usually how it works.
Ethan Sands: The nickname followed him. Let’s say that the nickname followed him throughout his career. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a CA insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. If you couldn’t tell, we’ve diminished the amount of podcasts per week to three up until training camp, when we’ll get back to five a week. But if you want to have conversations with us on a daily basis, this is the place to do it. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the Blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy. But we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris, and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.