CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, host Ethan Sands and columnist Jimmy Watkins dive into the world of NBA 2K, discussing player rankings, personal experiences with the game, and the impact of these ratings on the Cavs.
Takeaways:
Player ratings in 2K are based on a formula of skills.
Jarrett Allen’s ranking is reasonable compared to others.
Darius Garland and LaMelo Ball have comparable skills but different impacts.
Evan Mobley is expected to rise in rankings with performance.
Donovan Mitchell is likely to be ranked between 10-15.
Cavs’ gameplay style is fun and effective in 2K.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me today, none other than Jimmy Watkins, cleveland.com columnist. And I know Jimmy, you’ve had a lot going on as of late when it has to come with all of the beats that you have to do throughout the summer, especially gearing up for the Cav season of course, but Browns coverage, Ohio State coverage. So I wanted to give you an opportunity to kick back, throw on your PS5 and answer some questions about the latest 2K rankings that are now available for the 2K26 game. And I’m gonna just start here. How long have you been playing 2k and is it one of the best games? Is it one of your favorite games to play?
Jimmy Watkins: 2K is where my heart is when it comes to playing video games. For a stretch there I got out of it for a couple years. But when I mean from middle school through college, definitely never missed a release. Built many of my core friendships over that game. I to this day with a couple of my high school buddies, we will play online franchises and rig the playoffs so that we can play each other in the finals. It’s just super fun to team build and play fake GM and get frustrated at the game because something about 2k whenever they, whenever it first comes out, takes forever to learn how to shoot. And I love this exercise. I’m excited to start and it’s my favorite video game franchise of all time. But I think we have the history behind Madden. Madden was here first. I think it’s tough to objectively call it the greatest game of all time, but it’s certainly how I choose to spend my free time.
Ethan Sands: I think that’s fair. Especially because of your love for bass. Was everybody on this podcast is well aware of. But Jimmy, this game has been around for a long time and this game has obviously helped friendships, broken some friendships because of the game style, the gameplay. You mentioned my gm, I was more of a my career guy being able to put myself into the shoes of an NBA player. Obviously my 5 foot 8 self was not ever making it to the NBA. So it’s always fun to see what a 6 foot 3 pro shows.
Jimmy Watkins: The height that stopped you.
Ethan Sands: I’mma go with that. It’s always fun to see what like a 6 foot 3 version of myself would would have been able to accomplish. Potentially unlikely but you know, for the sake of the game. Right. But Jimmy, what is the best 2k that has ever been released? Because I’m between a couple. 2K16 obviously stands out, and 2K12 is up there as well for me. Where do these games stand for you?
Jimmy Watkins: I think a lot of these questions, like your favorites, your favorite movie, your favorite basketball player, your favorite music. Not that we don’t all have a very personal relationship to our favorite things, but I think it has as much to do with, like, when you grew up or when you associate good times with as it does to do with the product, particularly with 2K. Because while I do think the franchise has gotten a little worse over time, they are mostly making the same game every time, just with different rosters and graphic tweaks. And over the years, they’ve made mechanical tweaks like how you. You do dribble moves and how you shoot the ball, whatever. So I guess, I mean, my, my. The peak of my 2k is when I would maybe like the summer between my sophomore and junior year of high school, which would have been that 2K12, 2K13 range. And that’s when I was literally building my entire day around, when am I going to my. My buddy’s place to go play some 2k? We’d wake up in the morning, we’d hoop, we’d go play 2K, we grab some food, we’d go back, we’d hoop. Like, that was. That was every single day. Every single day after school, we’re gonna go play a little 2K. I mean, I used every. I, without exaggeration, used every single player in that game in a fantasy draft. At some point. I knew the. I knew the. The quirks inside it out. I knew the glitches inside it out. I would say something in that range just because that’s when. That’s when I was in my. My 2k prime.
Ethan Sands: I like that. I like that especially because now we’re getting to see how. How glitchy the game can be, right? Because obviously 2K is now incorporating the WNBA and allowing them to be on the same team as NBA players, if you so choose. So in the trailer for the game, Asia Wilson is throwing a lob to Bam Adebayo. And they’re both in Miami Heat jerseys, which is phenomenal if you get the context of the video. But I just think it’s. It’s something that has to be worked out in the game, right? Like how realistic is. Is the gameplay going to be and how is that going to impact how people are perceiving the game itself. But that’s not necessarily why we’re talking about this topic today. 2K has been steadily releasing their rankings and their overalls for the newest version of this game for over the last couple of weeks. And Jimmy, the CAVs have had three of their four core four members already released with their ratings, and I just wanted to get your thoughts on where they sit in these lists respectively. So let’s start with the bottom to the top. So we have 84 overall. Includes Jared Allen, Norman Powell, Rudy Gobert, Mikal Bridges, Brandon Ingram, and Lowry Markkanen. Jimmy, just first and foremost, while I’ve been looking at these lists, to me it’s been like, okay, I can understand why there are some people in here. Why are you here? Like, especially after Norman Powell had such a great season last year, um, especially after Jared Allen has been one of the biggest pieces for the Cleveland Cavaliers. And then also in the same graphic at the 83rd overall 60th ranking, Desmond Bain, which means he’s below all the people that we just listed. What do you think about this first little jumble of players and why Jared Allen might be 59th ranked in this new game?
Jimmy Watkins: So saying Jared’s too high or too.
Ethan Sands: Low, I think Jarrett is reasonably ranked, but I’m not necessarily sure about where these other cats lie.
Jimmy Watkins: You can’t play like the trade value game with 2k ratings because it’s a formula. They’re just, they’re just plugging in different skills, rating different skills. And then you know, the rating is, is an amalgamation, an average of all of those different skills. So I try, I don’t, I don’t necessarily see anyone egregious ranked above Jared Allen right now because like, okay, is. Is Norman Powell contributing as much to winning as Jared Allen? No, but Norm Allen, or. Sorry, Norm. Norm Powell does a lot of, a lot of things. Well, Mark Howell’s a good shooter. On Powell is an, is an above average. And the other thing is he’s above average ball handler. The other thing is now with these games, they’re breaking down one skill into a bunch of different skills. So it’s not like. It’s not just that Norm Powell is a good three point shooter. It’s what’s your, what’s your movement. Three point shooting. What? You’re off the dribble. Norm Powell, that’s going to be. And important, you’re off the dribble. Three point shooting. Same with mid range, same with close range. It’s a, it’s a driving layup. It’s a standing layup. It’s. Whatever it might. I don’t know what this haven’t like made A player in a long time. But there’s. They used to have like signature layup, all that sort of stuff. So I think you have to take a, take these. Like a different look at these. I’m looking below Jarrett. Like, I don’t think Kobe White is. I think Kobe White might be an empty Cal. We need more, need more evidence here. He might be an empty calories scoring guy. And he is surrounded. He’s surrounded by guys like Safari Castle, Dyson Daniels, Cam Johnson, Miles Turner, guys who win, guys who win. So I just think that. I also think Jared’s mostly properly rated. And this is not necessarily a hierarchy of the league. It’s a. It’s like a. An amalgamation of skill.
Ethan Sands: I think that’s fair. I, I think more so. When I was looking at it, I was like, how is Kristof Porzingis in 85? Right. Because one, he’s, he’s a unicorn. Two, he’s a guy who disrupts a whole lot for any opposing team. And he’s the same rating as og, An OBI and Scotty Barnes, and obviously OG and Scotty. Well, Scotty in particular is the franchise player for a developing team, while Kristos was the missing piece for a championship team. Right.
Jimmy Watkins: Chris stops finished the year weird.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, sure did.
Jimmy Watkins: He had the, he had the respiratory illness, we hope and think he’s over that. I don’t mind a little ding because I, I believe last year he was higher, like in the high 80s. But I don’t. I don’t mind a little ding for that. And then if he’s. If he’s himself again, then they’ll loot. That’s the other thing about these ratings. They are never permanent. I feel like they update them at least once a week.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. Because you can get plus minuses throughout. Throughout the week based on performances. I think that’s probably one of my favorite things of the live ratings throughout 2K that they’ve upgraded is how consistently they’re updating these stats for these players. But going into the next one, between the range of 40 and 31 at 40 and he’s an 87 overall. Jimmy Butler, 887 overall is going to be the next few. Derrick White, Dubach, Zion Williamson, Darius Garland, Lamelo Ball, Alfred Shangoon, Damontis Sabonis, and then Damian lillard is an 88 overall and Chet Holmgren is an 88 overall. After you name some names that you might raise your eyebrow a little bit when it comes to not only performances last year, but stature in the league. First and foremost, Jimmy I’m going to throw you a softball. How do you feel about Darius Garland and LaMelo Ball being the same rating coming into this next game and season?
Jimmy Watkins: Well, this is exactly what I’m talking about when I say we’re not, we’re not rating championship pieces here. We’re rating skills. LaMelo Ball is a very, very skilled player. His skills are on par with Darius ground skills. Now, how Lamelo chooses to deploy those skills, well, that’s up to your own, your own discretion, your own taste in basketball players. But the beauty of 2K is you can, you can take LaMelo Ball’s circus act and turn it into winning basketball. You can, you can be the man behind the controls. I actually don’t have that much of a problem with that. And I, I kind of price in with players like Lamelo who are popular not for winning, but for being in highlight reels. They’re going to get a little video game boost. I don’t, I don’t really don’t have an issue. You got to take your old man hat off when you’re, when you’re talking, you’re talking gaming here. And the Damian Lillard thing, it’s a respect thing. I think it’s a legacy thing. He’s not going to have an Achilles injury in the game. So I don’t, I don’t have much of a problem. I’m not, this is not a. I’m not podcasting very well right now because I’m, I’m in mostly agreeable to most of this stuff. I don’t think Alpi Shangun is better than a few of the people he’s in front of. I think Darius could be out of him. I mean, Zion has an 87. Sure, sure. He feels like an impossible player to rate right now. I mean, the durability better be pretty low on that guy. You know, other than that, I think, I think they’re getting this, the science down pretty well. I don’t have many major beefs here.
Ethan Sands: I think the one that stands out the most to me is Sabonis. Just because of. Again, I’m looking about this the wrong way, probably, but how he impacts everybody around him like he is the mini Jokic, like you have a triple double as easy as possible with him. Also, how he orchestrates the offense, scores the basketball, gets rebounds. There’s a whole lot of different stacks when we’re talking about the attributes of these players that I think could be helpful to Sabonis case to be higher, to be rated higher, ranked higher, whatever you want to call it because currently he’s an 87 and ranked 33rd in the game. So I just think that there’s obviously room for him to grow because of the players around him coming this season, but also just understanding what he brings to the table. And obviously ball handling might be a little bit lower for him. He’s not the best ball handler, but.
Jimmy Watkins: He’S a great passer who should be ahead of them. We can’t just say, make him higher. Let’s, let’s, yeah, we got to knock somebody down.
Ethan Sands: I, I would put him ahead of Chet on this list.
Jimmy Watkins: Oh, no. Oh, no.
Ethan Sands: You don’t think so?
Jimmy Watkins: Well, there’s two sides of the court. Chet should decide code in 2K.
Ethan Sands: Chet should be a cheat code in.
Jimmy Watkins: 2K, but there’s two sides, man. Chet Holmgren is one of the best defensive players alive. Demonta Sabonis, to put it kindly, is not. Is not. I think they are probably like Chet. Chet is a better offensive player than Damon. Sabonis is a defensive player, and they’re ranked pretty closely together. And Sabonis is awesome, man. I mean, he is, he is the hub of Sacramento’s offense. I worry, I wonder what they can, what their ceiling is with him as their best player. I don’t necessarily think it’s, it’s his fault that they’ve drifted back into mediocrity. He’s an awesome player, but then again, in the video game world, this guy Ch. Chet just won the title. So there’s, there’s going to be some. If there’s a little overzealousness on overzealotry. I don’t know that word on home on Homegren for this game. I, I, I’m cool with the championship bump, but I think, I think Chad is a, a better, he’s a better basketball player than Sponus, no doubt. And I think in the 2k world, I could, I, I think his, his defensive stuff would make sense that they’re on even footing.
Ethan Sands: Fair enough. Fair enough. You think of these players that are like, supposed to be known names around the league, and I think Chet not only proved himself in the playoffs, especially after people were kind of trying to write him off after how some series began. So I think he definitely deserves credit. And I’m not trying to take away from his basketball ability at all. I just think Sabonis is one a little bit more proven when it comes to just regular season games, but also understanding that he has a more balanced game than Chet, especially when we talk about offensively, defensively you’re absolutely right. I put Chet in the conversation with probably Evan Mobley and Victor Wembanyama as some of the best defenders in the league. But speaking of Evan Mobley, he’s in this next chunk of players 30 through 21. He is rated 89. He is an 89 overall and he’s ranked 26th overall in the game. So here are the players that have the same overall rating as evan. Jaren Jackson Jr. James Harden, Pascal Siakam, Paolo Banchero. And right below them is Bam Adebayo at 88. Oh, man, this is a star studded list. And right below them for 90 overall is Kyrie, Trey Young, Jalen Brown, and Jalen Williams. J Dub from the OKC Thunder. What do you think, Jimmy? Are they getting every Moby right? Are they putting them too high with some of these players that are more proven? What. What’s your thought?
Jimmy Watkins: I have a couple thoughts here. I mean, this is. This is a really tricky. This is where you have to kind of trick your brain because I would say probably not Paolo, but other than Paolo. Kyrie, Trey Young, Jalen Brown, Jalen Williams, Devin Booker, Tyrese will put to the side because he’s hurt. Kawhi. I think all of those guys, it’s kind of a no brainer their teams would trade them for Evan Mobley today. It’s not the exercise. We’re not playing trait value. So I’m just trying to. I’m trying to wrap my head around them all being ahead of him. Skill wise, I guess I could see how we get there with Kyrie. Skill wise, I guess could see there how we get there with Trey. Again, there are two sides of the court. I would love to see some of the defensive ratings on these guys. I just don’t think Jaylen Brown’s a better basketball player than Evan Mobley at this point. I don’t think Jalen Williams is a better basketball player than Evan Mobley at this point. I love book. I don’t think he’s better. Kawhi, you need to play. Evan could certainly be higher. Also, this Bam out of bio rating turned heads a little bit. I think there’s. We want to make it. I. I think. I think Chat could be ahead of him. If you want to make us a bonus case there. Bam had a. A weird season last year. I know. I think maybe that’s coloring my reaction here, but I think you could drop Bam down a little bit. And Evan, Evan, I mean, feels like a 90 to me. I want. I want to say he was a 90 by the end of last year’s updates. I think Evan should be closer to like the top 15 range than he is the. Where is he now? 26th. Yeah, Evan, Evan could do some climbing and. But you know what though? If, if the way Kenny Atkinson was talking in summer league means anything, if the Cavs are serious about centering another regular season around Evan Mobley, this will, this will all take care of itself. But that was my initial reaction, was, yes, I think he could be higher here.
Ethan Sands: Yeah. Yeah. And I think Aaron Mobley is going to have to earn that respect one by, as you say, Jimmy, talking into microphones, but also just doing exactly what you know you’re capable of on the offensive end because again, defensive player of the year, first time all star last year, second time all defensive team, add in second team all NBA. I think you just understand that there’s still levels for you to climb, but you’ve already taken a huge step. And I think I thought 2k was going to give him more respect for making that jump to be in the 90s club, but I guess they’re saving that for a more, more lucrative group. And obviously when we talk about that, the 20 through the number one rankings for NBA 2K have yet to be released. But as I mentioned, Donovan Mitchell has not been added to that list yet. We don’t know where he’s ranked. So Jimmy, I’m just going to ask you straight up. Where do you think Donovan Mitchell should rank on this 2k list when it comes to being in the top 20? Where do you think he should fall? Where do you think he will fall?
Jimmy Watkins: I think the answer is kind of same for both. I would say somewhere between 10 and 15. In my head, Donovan is a little closer to a top 15 player than he is a top 10 player. We’re splitting hairs there. It’s like between 13 and 12. But he played. I mean he’s a perfect video game guy. He’s got the handles, he’s got the dunk package. He’s got. There’s, there’s a lot of value in, in having like a story, a strength to your game, a strong center of gravity to be able to bounce off people in, in the game. So I think he, I’ve, I’ve used him in, in the game several times before. It’s a whole bunch of fun. He’ll probably be not, not 90. He’ll be like in the, on the high end of low 90s, maybe like 93, 94. And I think that’s. Again, I think that’s about right. It’s. Once we get to the, the top of the top here, it gets even harder to separate video game brain from basketball brain because, because a lot of these guys are top 10 players in the NBA, you can make a case that the 2K list is, is pretty well reflective of the, of the real Life list. Although 2K is always pretty favorable, favorable to guys like LeBron and Stephen. There’s, there’s sometimes there are some legacy ratings like we saw with Donovan Mitchell. Sure, Kevin Durant will be higher than, than maybe he should be, but I, again, I, I don’t, I’m not gonna knock them for that. You want the, you want the, the faces of the league to feel like the faces of the league on this game. And they’re still, all of them are still incredible. Donovan will be, Donovan will be somewhere in the 10 to 15 range.
Ethan Sands: LeBron’s not moving like he’s 40 years old in the game, right? Like, there’s obviously stamina that you have to account for, but he’s still doing the same dunks. He’s still got the same dunk package that he’s had for years. Now. Steph Curry is still going to be shooting from 40ft and all these things, so I definitely think that has to be taken into account. But who do you think should, should be, could be and makes the most sense as the number one player in this, in this year’s game. And is he a 99 overall or how many 99 overalls? Do you think there’s gonna be faze.
Jimmy Watkins: On the COVID Isn’t he the next one?
Ethan Sands: I mean, I believe so.
Jimmy Watkins: He’s on the COVID Just one mvp. He’s one finals mvp. I think I’d be pretty surprised if it wasn’t him. I, I personally believe Jokic is the best, best player in the league. I’d probably take Giannis and let’s take a look at my Navy list here. Giannis and we can have a. The Luca conversation is, is difficult because Shay is a better defender than Luca, but Shay also has one of the greatest defenses ever assembled around him. I think Luka would be fine in that environment as well. Even if team can still try to pick on him and, and Luca was banged up last year at times, so I would, I would probably get the Shay, not the Shayna over Luka right now, but I, I, that’s, that’s the way my brain goes. I’d probably take Yoga Giannis over Shay if, if Shay’s 99 and they’re both 99s as well. Great. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t knock anyone for that. Although I think the shooting numbers probably could knock Giannis down a point or two. But if I’m, I’m thinking we put this guy on the COVID he just had one of the best seasons of all time. I would, I would think Shay will be the top rated player.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, that’s my assumption as well. And Jimmy, you had mentioned previously, just like playing with the Cavs or Donovan Mitchell and I had the chance to do so for last year’s game and it felt like cheating playing with the Cavs because of the double big situation, because of the speed of Darius Garland, because of the athleticism of Donovan Mitchell and then coming off the bench. Last year you had Ty Jerome, you had Sam Merrow, you said Max Stru. And then especially when they got DeAndre Hunter. You’re fixing all the lineup situations and the rotations that you think you could have or should have or would have seen with Kenny Atkinson last year. It’s a team assembled that makes a lot of sense together. Right. And I think even, even more so this coming season I’m going to be playing exactly how Kenny Atkinson wants to be. Playing a run and gun style with Lonzo running the ball up the court and throwing Lyles to Donovan or Evan Mobley bringing the ball up the floor and Jared Allen setting a high screen for him and doing a big on big action. All of these things are why I think the Cavs should be one of the best teams in the game overall. A favorite in the game overall just because of not only who they have, but the playstyle and how good their defense should be and how good their offense was last year. The number one offense in basketball.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, it’s just real fun to have Evan and Jared back there. And I think the, the only way I know how to play 2k is try to run off misses because playing half court offense is super frustrating. So your Cavs are, They’re a whole lot of fun. I know I’ve said this before in 2k25 at least, because that’s kind of. I got back into it. That’s the first 2k I had bought in a couple years. Max Druce is a sniper, man. There are just certain, certain jump shots that you get. The rhythm of his is very, very smooth and he has. I, I will. I have made some small children across the Internet cry with Max Struse. It’s so fun to use him.
Ethan Sands: So like there’s been cheat codes in the game before. Right. Like players throughout the years who just simply play better than they are. Like Danny Granger is one that comes to mind.
Jimmy Watkins: Nick Young, baby. To this day. To this day. My PS5 tag is Swaggy Pete for three.
Ethan Sands: That’s great. Also, Gerald Green used to be insane with the dunks. I just.
Jimmy Watkins: They are. I think, honestly, there’s an archetype here. Like any. Any like microwave scoring sixth man with a smooth jumper. You can. You can put up some crazy numbers.
Ethan Sands: With them, especially if they have athleticism along with the shooting. Like, J.R. smith would do whatever he wanted, right? Because he could legitimately take you to the basket and put you in the rim. Or he could just pull up from 30 and be like, okay, well, now get back on defense because it didn’t really matter. I’m trying to think of who that player might be. Obviously Steph is like that when it comes to shooting. It feels like everything you shoot is going to be Green.
Jimmy Watkins: But Blake Monk. Blake Monk’s awesome in the game.
Ethan Sands: You have the game downloaded already, Jimmy, or what’s the situation?
Jimmy Watkins: I’m talking 25. I’m talking 25. I don’t know anything about 26.
Ethan Sands: Okay. But are you going to get it?
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah. Probably.
Ethan Sands: Okay. All right. Well, thank you, Jimmy, for indulging me in our conversation about 2K rankings that don’t really matter, ratings that don’t really matter, but can show you what the NBA thinks slightly about the players. We get into this a little bit more in depth when we get an understanding of where players are around the league, what systems they’re in and who they have around them. Will do that closer to training camp. But this is just a little fun exercise that I thought would help Jimmy take. Take the edge off from having to cover three beats at the same time and doing a great job at that. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold talk podcast. But remember to become a COWS and insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Want to send in questions about anything Cavs related? Want to have a conversation about 2K ratings? Want to talk about anything that has to do with the NBA or just fun summertime things? This is where you do it. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris, and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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