Liverpool fans are angry – at Newcastle fans and the media for portraying them as the villains and the Saudi-owned club as the victims.
It’s a powerful Mailbox; send your own views to theeditor@football365.com
Anybody else exhausted?
After Monday night, I’m officially exhausted. I’m tired of the entire circus around Newcastle and Liverpool mostly driven by keyboard warriors who have minimal connection to either team beyond putting who they support in their twitter bio then spewing as much trash as they can.
I’m exhausted with the privileged supporters on my side, who feel that it is our divine right to have any player we wish regardless of the wishes of their current clubs.
The online chatter around Isak and to a lesser extent Guehi show a decided hypocrisy and arrogance that these ‘supporters’ should be embarrassed about.
What Newcastle are experiencing this summer should be painfully familiar to a core of our fanbase who have been around for a while. Michael Owen sitting out Champions League qualifiers until he was sold for pennies and a guy named Nunez, Gerrard’s transfer request before his U-Turn, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Suarez (40 million quid plus a pound) and Coutinho. We were there and it doesn’t feel great. Now that we’ve been built, over decades into a well run club that is near the top of the pyramid, we can act better and remember where we’ve come from.
And I’m exhausted with Newcastle supporters who are allowing their club to gaslight them into blaming everybody but themselves for the disaster that their summer has become. Sure it’s easy to scapegoat Liverpool for bidding on a player you wanted or another one you want to keep, but that just glosses over what a gong show the club has become.
It is not Liverpool’s fault that your club has no footballing infrastructure beyond Eddie Howe and his family. It’s not Liverpool’s fault that there appears to have been no forward planning for this summer. It’s not Liverpool’s fault that your owners seem to be content to keep giving your direct rivals vast sums of cash, be it through Club World Cup Prize money (38 million for City, 84 million for Chelsea) or buying players for their domestic league.
The fact Newcastle are now panic bidding for any striker with a pulse has nothing to do with us and everything to do with the complete shambles inside Newcastle.
This feels harsh, but I’m exhausted. I have all the time in the world for genuine Newcastle supporters and Geordies in general. The parallels between our clubs are striking. Both clubs have an amazing history, fell on hard times, dealt with brutal ownership and now are on positive pathways. The only differences are that we’ve already experienced our modern growing pains coming out of the court mandated sale of our club. We persevered through the some of the same crap that Newcastle now find themselves in.
But enough of this scapegoating bulls**t. The Newcastle owners are obscenely rich and have had all the opportunity in the world to pour money into the areas of the club that aren’t subject to Profit and sustainability rules to create all sorts of advantages that would pay off in the long run. And instead we are where we are. That’s not on Liverpool.
Mark, LFC (I’m off to re-energize myself by watching Rio’s post match interview over and over again)
MEDIAWATCH: Worst idea ever? Newcastle urged to ‘get in touch with Liverpool’ about Isak
…Sorry it’s me again and I know I’ve written in before about Isak, and I also know that I too, wasn’t sitting across from him and Eddie Howe last season when promises were made, hands were shaken, or stories invented. But I don’t need to have been there to see the obvious. What I can’t get my head around is the sympathy towards Newcastle, their fans or anyone connected with the club, Liverpool and their fans are always being painted as villains, bi the fans display on Monday night was an utter disgrace, and didn’t help their cause at all!
How in anyone’s right mind can Liverpool fans ever be slagged off when Newcastle on Monday night –
Booed Hugo Ekitike all game simply because he chose to join the Premier League champions rather than a Europa League hopeful.
Played football so dangerously physical and verbally aggressive it wouldn’t have looked out of place in the Neanderthal age.
Dived, whined and acted like complete babies all game.
Manufactured a story around Isak to paint him as the bad guy, when all he’s guilty of is wanting ambition to be matched with action.
Failed to land a single top target this summer.
And finally, convinced themselves they’re a superpower in waiting, only to whinge about being “rug-pulled” by big clubs who actually walk the walk.
And that’s before we even get onto the diving. Newcastle was hitting the floor like it was an Olympic sport. The rolling, the clutching of faces, the endless surrounding of the referee — it was pure theatre. You’d think they were auditioning for a panto in the Tyne Theatre rather than a football match. Combine that with the violent tackling and verbal’s, and you’ve got a team who completely lost sight of the line between “competitive” and “dangerous.”
Surely the supporters, owners and pundits alike can see the toxic cesspool they’re wading in – it’s mad how they can’t see what a shit show they’re turning into. Every transfer target they chased this summer saw it and what do you know? – they said no. Including, most likely, Isak himself.
And then comes Monday night. The banners, the chants of “get into them” (wow how cringey is that! – worked out well that eh lads?), the snarling aggression, the constant playacting that all backfired spectacularly.
They lost the game at home, picked up a suspension, their treatment room is overflowing. All because they couldn’t handle the idea that Liverpool dared to bid for one of their players.
Negotiation is not a crime. It never has been. Liverpool put £110m on the table. Newcastle anchored Isak’s value at £150m. That’s not immoral or illegal, it’s the first step in literally every business transaction ever. Newcastle did exactly the same with Wissa at Brentford, but apparently when the shoe’s on the other foot it’s a moral crisis.
And let’s get real as really in what world is £110m a derisory offer? Newcastle Football Club was purchased in its entirety for £305m just four years ago. Are we genuinely saying Isak is worth a third (more) a football club? If that’s the case, I’ve got a shed in the garden I’ll list for £50m and wait for the Saudis to come calling.
The hypocrisy is staggering. Negotiation is normal, but booing teenagers, diving all over the place, and turning a football match into a battlefield isn’t. And if this really is what Newcastle think progress looks like, then they’ll never join football’s elite. It takes more than a Saudi chequebook and a few WWE tackles to build stature.
Which is why Monday night was so perfect. The Gravenberch grin after a goal, the Chiesa celebrations like a fan who’s hopped the barrier, Frimpong cheering from home, Slot missing Ekitike’s strike and laughing about it, and then, most of all, Rio Ngumoha. Sixteen years old, scoring in the 100th minute, and shoved by his manager towards the away end to drink in every last drop. That’s Liverpool. That’s the difference. And that’s what Newcastle don’t get.
Even the chant from the away end, which one, amongst others was “Hand him over, Newcastle!” summed it all up. Newcastle tried to make it personal, to turn football into war, to dive and cheat their way through, and Liverpool had the last laugh. Again.
And while Newcastle stew in their victim complex, I had to laugh at the “we’re back” chorus from Manchester United and City last week. United claimed to be reborn after beating Arsenal (😊), City strutted around like kings again after bullying a poor Wolves side. Fast-forward seven days: United scraping a 1–1 draw at Fulham thanks to an own goal, and City losing 2–0 at home to Spurs. Both brought crashing back down to earth. It’s August, lads. Pipe down. We’ll check back in May and see who’s actually lifting trophies. Spoiler: it won’t be the self-proclaimed sleeping giants.
So maybe instead of wringing their hands, diving, and booing teenagers, Newcastle should try hosting away fans properly 9seriously how is the position of the away fans even allowed!), keeping promises to their own players, and learning how negotiations work. Until then, we’ll take the points, the drama, and the poetic justice of winning in the very last breath.
Oh, and if Liverpool really want to twist the knife, maybe they should leave an £20m bid in the home dressing room next time we visit – for the ball boys.
Lee Ryan
…Still digesting Monday night’s game. One of those that only time will tell if it was an alarm bell for an underperforming Liverpool or a testament to our resolve in an incredibly tough fixture. Huge credit to Newcastle for that performance, but I think there is a tendency for all things Newcastle to be viewed through the expectations of what they were rather than what they are now.
Newcastle fans should absolutely rage at Isak, but the absolute crap directed at Liverpool and talk of “cartels” (much of which has been indulged on here) is beyond hypocritical. Some Newcastle fans are clearly struggling to deal with the reality of their new situation – you don’t get to be Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Football obviously make hypocrites of us all, but some apparently see cartels everywhere except in the wealth of the trillion dollar Saudi sovereign oil fund behind them. They have a squad assembled for almost half a billion net spend over the last five years, with a a midfield boasting over 70 caps for Brazil and Italy between them.
This, as I slowly get to my point, informs a weird way of still thinking of Newcastle as impressive underdogs – and, despite having a full 16 conclusions, you missed a few obvious ones. Newcastle played like it was a world cup final, the “breathless intensity” coming at a huge cost – Gordon’s brainless intensity meaning he will miss about 10% of the Premier League season and serious injuries to Schar, Joelinton and Tonali could see the toll bleed into the next few months for them.
Liverpool didn’t play well, with serious issues to sort out, but still left unscathed and with three points from what was always going to be one of the hardest games of the year. All the talk has been of Newcastle’s mentality – ignoring Liverpool’s resolve and tenacity to get through this most febrile of fixtures with a win, nobody sent off and nobody getting injured playing the second game of the season like it was Mad Max: Fury Road. That’s its own kind of mentality.
RH, NYC
Did Newcastle even play well?
The narrative is that Newcastle played well. Watching it at the time, they did but also they didn’t did they? Newcastle wanted to hurt us. Put it up them they all said. They ended up with a red card, two injuries and a concussion sub. Maybe Eddie Howe should be the next England manager as that’s perfect for the baying masses of England would-be-hooligans and topless Geordies.
It was a battering for 30 minutes. Liverpool got the ball on the ground and Wirtz had a long range effort that the keeper rightly saved. That was his only save as he conceded three from four shots on target. An outside of the box effort by Gravenberch who does have a goal in him. He wasn’t under much pressure. Newcastle had the wind knocked out of their sails but clearly still playing under a fog of bloodlust. Gordon getting himself sent off in a successful application of VAR/demonstration of how the one the pitch ref can bottle big decisions in hostile stadiums. I understand that they didn’t have their striker because of how Newcastle have mismanaged the situation but you put Gordon up against an out of position Szoboszlai, Shirley.
The bloodlust continued at 2-0 down. The ball barely being in play as foul after foul broke up any attempt of either team trying to play football. The ball was in the play the least amount of time and the game had the most amount of fouls, like ever! How Bruno Guimarães did not get a second yellow is amazing but then the ref didn’t want to send off Gordon. It is amazing how these Arab states won’t back LGBT causes because of their religious beliefs but are happy with gamblers on the payroll. Unfortunately, the bloodlust got what it wanted – blood and injuries! Unfortunately for Newcastle they were for their own players.
Then Liverpool brought on a short young man and an actual child. Had a passage of football with the ball on the ground, got the ball out wide to Salah who passed for his opposite winger, perfectly dummied by still-on-the-pitch-and-no-way-needing-to-be-substituted-as-a-precaution-after-been-spread-on-toast-by-the-direct-running-of-Gordon Szoboszlai.
Newcastle were immense. Clearly, that game meant a lot to them. But they were the living embodiment of small dog syndrome barking loudly to prove how big they are. With those injuries, the red card and mishandling of the Isak the Rat situation, they’ve punched themselves in the face. With a new front line, midfield and defence, the defence also being makeshift and containing Konate’s body but not his mind, Liverpool are fragile. Arsenal and Real Madrid last year will tell you that you can’t win football tournaments without a proper right back.
If Newcastle had played with any semblance of control in their aggression they’d have won that game and shown Isak and the next players that this is a club on the up. Newcastle threw everything that they had at Liverpool and have achieved plucky tryer status. If only they could be allowed to spend more money than any real club could ever earn, that would make all things better. For just them.
I hope PIF paid market rate for all those adverts.
Alex, South London
Punish the tapper-uppers
With all this lovely continued Isak talk, I suggest a rule change to negotiations.
If you are found to have spoken to the agent (or player, but it’s effectively the same thing) before a price has been agreed with the club (such as by putting in a secret clause that if revealed, exposing the parties involved) the agent AND club should be fined 20% of the player’s transfer value. And if the selling club is open to it, the buying club is *forced* to buy at let’s say 20% above the asking price.
Agents have to stop being snakey mofos, clubs have to clean up their own acts, the selling club gets to negotiate or receive a decent price and the player doesn’t get their head turned by some floozy who only wants to get them in the sack if they’re easy.
Extreme? Absolutely. But on a similar but entirely unrelated thing, as discussed below the line, if you choose to foul by holding someone’s shirt in the box, it’s a penalty. Doesn’t matter whether it was a light pull, a drag down or a body cavity search, it’s a foul so it’s called. If you throw someone to the ground, it’s a red card.
In both these cases, a hard line would quickly draw both to an end pretty fast.
Badwolf
Force him to stay…
Newcastle should employ the Leandro Trossard solution to the Isak saga! Give him more money and make him stay at least one more season. The team is TOOTHLESS without him and there’s no replacement for now. The Newcastle hierarchy should sit Isak and his reps down and let them know he’s not going ANYWHERE! They should then give him some carrots (increased pa) and REINTEGRATE him into the squad!
Without Isak they will be at the lower end of the table come May 2026.
Lekkyboy
Stop being hysterical about Liverpool
Lot of hysteria around Liverpool’s performance levels at the moment.
Ok, sure, no one in their right mind would say Slot would be happy with their displays in the first two games. They’ve never really controlled either game properly, and some of their individual defending (especially Konate) has left a lot to be desired.
But here’s the thing. They have still won both games. Despite that lack of control and the defensive issues. Despite having several new players still settling down, finding their rhythm. They’ve found a way to win. Their biggest strength is their ability to hurt teams. They often don’t need to play well, their firepower is enough.
Does anyone seriously believe they’re going to go through the whole season conceding the 70-odd goals that would be the case if you project the first two games over a 38-game season? Absolutely not, it’s ridiculous to think otherwise. Likewise, there is not a chance they will carry on through the season ceding possession so cheaply and inviting pressure.
Slot will get a grip on this soon enough, he’s a football obsessive and has a grasp of even the most minor detail.
And then? Well, if I were the rest of the league, I’d be very scared. Very scared indeed. If you can’t beat them when they’re this vulnerable, good luck when they’re purring.
Andy H, Swansea
Ours/Theirs/Yours To Lose (delete as appropriate)
RHT/TS declares that the title is “Arsenal’s to lose” after a round of fixtures in which Arsenal comfortably won at home to a newly promoted team, who are therefore relegation candidates – while Liverpool laboured to a late winner for the 2nd time in two games, this time against ten men, who happened to be playing way above their capability, at home, in feisty circumstances.
I get it – banter dictates that if a team is down to ten men, you should win by four goals or it doesn’t count and, naturally, Arsenal did actually look pretty decent with a 5-0 being a 5-0 no matter how you shake it but I really couldn’t let that comment slip by – unfortunately.
Here’s some stats from the last 10 years:
Amount of times team in 1st after GW 2 has gone on to win the title: 4 from 10 (1 x Leicester, 3 x City)
Ave league position of the eventual champion after GW 2: 3rd
Ave final league position of team that sits 1st after GW 2: 4th
Here’s some stats for this current season:
Points remaining to play for: 108 of 114
Games left to play: 36 of 38
Actual full tournaments from start to finish for both teams not yet started: 3
None of this is an exact science – though you could also point to Arsenal having played the 15th and 21st teams in English football for their first two fixtures and to Liverpool playing the 9th and 5th teams as additional weight behind “for the love of all that is good and holy, the title is no-ones to lose yet – why”
I get it – talking is fun, many wish I’d do less of it, and lord knows that a great deal of “sport” is the discussion, prediction, and dissection of, but why are we so keen to create these superlative narratives? Are those declaring the title in Arsenal’s hands, also the kind who talk through the film and confirm “they know how it ends”?
As ever – I am aware I’m wailing into the wind trying to beg for calm heads, but when have I ever turned down the opportunity to love the sight of my own typing.
Looking forward to the pre-destined Premier League,
Harold Edwin Hooler
In defence of Levy
I know Daniel Levy and the ownership of Spurs are not popular. I know they seem to consistently vacillate from philosophy clutching football-as-art managers to pragmatists. I know they buying and selling record can be a little all over the place. And I really, really know that despite their financial position, they have remarkably little silverware.
But I still think Levy has done a fantastic job, and their whole group is solidly in the top third or so of best football leadership in the Prem.
Spurs used to be a midtable team that mostly never won anything, and never bothered anyone. They are now firmly one of the financial elite that mostly don’t win anything (though I think that mostly is going to get smaller all the time). The pace of improvement has been uneven, and not always in one direction, but with the long view, they have consistently gotten better. They have a new stadium. They have solid youth setups. They are an attractive destination.
I think I wrote an email when they moved into their new stadium that eventually Spurs would start winning things, because they’d be set up for success. I stand by that. And they’ve done it by playing fair by FFP (I think. If I’m wrong, I’m sure you’ll all tell me.)
That’s something that is remarkably rare in the top echelons.
So, while he’s unpopular. And I definitely agree that his need to make the absolute most out of each out or incoming transfer can hurt the club’s start to seasons, I think it’s hard to say that Levy hasn’t been a massive net positive for the club.
Andrew M, Bow
Emery in, but…
DISCLAIMER: A “Too Long, Didn’t Read” can be found at the very bottom of this mail if you’re not of a Villa persuasion/cba to read all of the following.
I read Neil Raines’ letter and found myself nodding in agreement with most of it. Any Villa fan that realistically thinks Emery should be sacked needs to (a) give their head a wobble or (b) support someone else. However, the turnaround that he has overseen and the heights he has taken us to doesn’t mean that Unai is completely exempt from being questioned on some of his decision making.
There’s a very justifiable argument that criticism of Emery is fine and far removed from wanting him out of the door. I back him 100% but here are a few things I would like to see changed:
– John McGinn is absolutely not a right winger. Donyell Malen (who has had a stellar pre-season) and Evan Guessand are. Why play square pegs in round holes when you don’t need to? Take one of your better midfield players, play them out wide, watch them be completely ineffective and tell me you wouldn’t raise so much as an eyebrow!
– He might have won PFA Young Player of the Year, but right now Morgan Rogers is absolutely nowhere near his best. Not even close. Last season I cut him some slack because he was playing every game and most likely running on fumes. I can’t afford him that excuse now, he is simply not putting the effort in. If a player isn’t performing, drop them and show them that someone else is waiting to take their place. Who picks the team?
– Playing out from the back ALL THE TIME is dangerous and with our lads, more than likely to end up with a goal being conceded yet we still do it. It was brilliant to see Bizot actually kick the ball up the pitch to find players instead of having the usual 600 passes between the back four and goalie before we decided to have a go at the opposition goal. Mix it up a bit – don’t be so predictable.
– I’ve seen games where we’ve absolutely gone for teams and got amazing results (Man City and Arsenal spring to mind) and yet we more often than not play our way through games by going from centre back to centre back to full back to centre back to goalie to centre back etc etc. Not only is it dull as dishwater, it’s not how you win football matches. Where is the ambition? It’s not what the top teams do so if you’ve got any hope of keeping up with them, change the script. The team are capable of doing it, so let them!
– Torres, I’m sad to say, isn’t good enough as a defender in the PL. His passing is outrageously good but he has no speed whatsoever and is liable to make a mistake more often than not, such as teeing up Outtara at the weekend. I know we can’t play Konsa for another two matches but I’d be looking at Bogarde to fill the gap until Ezri can come back.
I’ll bookend this by again stressing that I remain fully committed to Emery and the good times he has brought back to Villa Park, but that doesn’t make him exempt from criticism – only from idiots with 2 second memories who can’t remember where were when he took over versus where we are now.
Jeff G, West Brom Villan
(TL,DR: Emery to stay but play players in the right positions, drop underperforming ones, stop the boring football and have a go!)