CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands, Chris Fedor, and Jimmy Watkins discuss the impact of Max Strus’s injury on the Cavs’ upcoming season. They explore the team’s depth and resilience, potential lineup changes, specifically the potential role of Dean Wade.
Takeaways
1. Max Strus Undergoes Foot Surgery
Max Strus has undergone surgery on his left foot after sustaining an injury during summer workouts, which will keep him out of basketball activities for three to four months. This marks the second consecutive season Strus will miss the start of the season due to injury, as he missed the first 27 games last season with ankle issues. The Cavaliers will be without their starting small forward for the season opener against the New York Knicks on October 22nd.
2. Impact of Strus’s Absence on the Team
While Strus’s absence is significant given his shooting, movement, gravity, cutting abilities, and defensive assignments, the panel believes the Cavaliers are built to withstand his absence during the regular season. The team had one of the best starts in NBA history last season without Strus, and they have enough depth to manage until his return. The focus remains on having Strus healthy and in rhythm for the playoffs in April, May, and June.
3. Potential Starting Lineup Options
The podcast discussed several potential starting lineup configurations to replace Strus, with the most likely options being: 1) Donovan Mitchell, Sam Merrill, Dean Wade, Evan Mobley, and Jarrett Allen; 2) Mitchell, Merrill, DeAndre Hunter, Mobley, and Allen; or 3) Lonzo Ball, Mitchell, Hunter/Wade, Mobley, and Allen. The consensus seemed to favor Sam Merrill moving into the starting lineup to replicate Strus’s shooting and movement, with the debate centering on whether Dean Wade or DeAndre Hunter should start at small forward.
4. Dean Wade’s Opportunity
Dean Wade has experience starting for the Cavaliers, posting a 69-34 record as a starter since 2021-22, including a 23-7 record with a 9.7 net rating in 30 starts last season. The panel noted that Wade fits well with the starting group defensively but questioned whether he provides enough offense and if he’ll confidently take open shots within the flow of the offense. This situation could help Wade regain confidence after being mentioned in trade rumors during the offseason.
5. De’Andre Hunter’s Role Considerations
The panel debated whether DeAndre Hunter would be more valuable as a starter or sixth man. While starting would give Hunter more time with the core players he’ll need to play with in the playoffs, there were concerns about disrupting his role multiple times during the season if Strus returns mid-season. Additionally, moving Hunter to the starting lineup would leave the bench unit without a consistent scoring threat, potentially putting too much pressure on players like Larry Nance Jr., Lonzo Ball, and Craig Porter Jr. to provide offensive production.
6. Sam Merrill’s Expanded Opportunity
Sam Merrill, who signed a four-year, $38 million contract, will likely move into the starting lineup and receive significantly more playing time than he’s accustomed to with Darius Garland sidelined to start the year. Merrill has never played more than 20 minutes per game in a season and has only played 30+ minutes in seven career games. While this presents a great opportunity for him to showcase his abilities, the panel stressed that he needs to remain the player the Cavaliers signed him to be rather than trying to do too much with his expanded role.
7. Defensive Identity Reclamation
Jimmy Watkins suggested the Cavaliers could use this situation to reclaim their defensive identity, which slipped last season despite the team still referring to themselves as defensively minded. With the offseason additions of Larry Nance Jr. and Lonzo Ball, plus the potential to start more defensive-minded players like Dean Wade or De’Andre Hunter, the team could shift focus to becoming an elite defensive unit again while accepting some offensive limitations early in the season.
8. Darius Garland’s Concurrent Absence
Complicating matters further, Darius Garland is also expected to miss the start of the season as he continues to recover from his toe surgery. While he’s been seen doing limited workouts during voluntary team sessions in Los Angeles, his timeline for return remains uncertain. The panel speculated his absence could extend into late November or even early December, creating an additional playmaking void that puts more pressure on Donovan Mitchell.
9. Malik Beasley Consideration
The panel discussed whether Malik Beasley, currently a free agent, could be an option to fill the void left by Strus. While Beasley would be the best available free agent from a basketball standpoint, the team would need to feel comfortable with his off-court situation given potential criminal charges he could face. The Strus injury might make the Cavaliers a more appealing destination for Beasley since there would be a clearer path to playing time.
10. Organization’s Confidence Despite Injuries
Despite the setbacks, the organization reportedly feels confident in their ability to handle Strus’s absence. The team views this as primarily unfortunate for Strus personally rather than a crisis for the team. The front office believes they have enough internal options to manage without making a panic trade or free agent signing, maintaining their focus on being at full strength for the playoffs rather than overreacting to early-season absences.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, and I’m with Chris Fedor and Jimmy Watkins on this latest edition. And of course we have some news to discuss. No, it’s not the 14th man being selected by the Cleveland Cavaliers Signed by the Cleveland Cavaliers is actually some sour news for the organization, as Max Struth has undergone surgery for his left foot after having workouts during the summer and sustaining an injury that will keep him out of basketball activities for three to four months. Obviously this is not something that anybody wanted to see or anything expected going into the season, but this will mark the second year in a row that Max Druce will start a season with an injury. Obviously last year he missed the first 27 games after having ankle issues to begin the season and stepping on somebody’s foot first and foremost. Chris Jimmy, we just had a conversation the other day about how impactful Max Strus was going to be, how vital he is to what the Core 4 is able to accomplish throughout last season and since he joined the Cleveland Cavaliers. What will come of this that Max Juice will not be with the Cleveland Cavaliers come Game 1 against the New York Knicks on October 22nd.
Chris Fedor: Guys, I don’t think we can downplay this. Max is a significant tributor to a team with championship aspirations. He was going to be in the starting lineup from everything that I had heard, and he is an impactful player. Their numbers with him on the floor and off the floor, offensively and defensively, they speak to his impact on a nightly basis. At the same time, I don’t think we have to go overboard here. The Cavs didn’t have Max Drus at the start of last year and they had one of the best starts in NBA history. The Cavs are built to withstand absences throughout the course of the regular season. I think the questions about the Cavs come Are they built to be a successful playoff team? Are they built to win multiple series in a playoff run? But are they built to sustain some of these injuries because of how deep they are? Because of how talented they are? Because of how many guys they have that have shown that they can step into more significant roles? Yeah, I think the Cavs are built to withstand this kind of loss. It is a loss. His movement, his shooting, his gravity, his cutting. He takes the toughest defensive assignments on the perimeter. All of that stuff the Cavs are going to feel. But we don’t have to go overboard here. This isn’t Donovan Mitchell. This isn’t Evan Mobley, and this isn’t an injury that is going to sideline Max Stru for the entire season. The way that Indiana is going to be dealing with a loss of Tyrese Halliburton, the way that Boston is going to be dealing with the loss of Jayson Tatum. For the Cavs, everything’s about April, May and June and Max Stru because the injury happened. Now he has time to recover. He has time to get himself back into basketball shape. He has time to shake off the rust and get back into a rhythm and be the kind of impactful player that he needs to be for this team when the playoffs roll around.
Jimmy Watkins: My first reaction was Malik Beasley. Ring, ring, anybody? Because now we’re not like, now the Cavs. If in. If the Cavs were going to give Malik Beasley the minimum is. It’s not Malik Beasley or Sam Merrill. It’s Blake Beasley and Sam Merrill.
Chris Fedor: Right?
Jimmy Watkins: Like, someone’s just filling that Max Truce role. That’s. That’s. That’s one direction they could go if they’re, you know, Malik Beasley is a nice player. I think it’s more about. The Cavs just became a little bit more enticing to Malik Beasley. Like, there’s more of an opportunity here. They have more to. To sell him when it comes to having a role. But there’s another way to go about this, and I think it’s kind of interesting in a much bigger picture sense, like, okay, extra is probably going to be back. Although Jones fractures can be a little bit trickier. Yeah, yeah, they can. They can linger. Some. Some people have had them recur. It’s early. He’s had surgery. This is of. If you’re going to have one of these, now’s the time. The off season, and ideally probably the day after the season ends is the best time to have one of these. But something that you can. Where you don’t feel. You’re never going to feel pressed for time, and the Cavs are deep enough where that’s never going to be the case. But to me, the question now is, do you want to fill this Max Juice role with someone like a Malik Beasley, which is really just Malik Beasley. As we covered last night, there’s not really anyone else out there that you’d want to be running regular rotation minutes for a big, like, a good NBA team in free agency. But we also have year two of Jalen Tyson. We also have Tyrese Proctor, who the Cavs clearly believe a lot and we also have. This is. This could be an opportunity for DeAndre Hunter to just get more run to increase his role and for the Cavs to use this as an opportunity to get him more comfortable with what they’ve been doing. Remember, there’s a guy who, when he, from the time he got here last year to the playoffs, from the trade in line and playoffs, I think they said right before that he had one practice. Essentially, that’s the NBA. Just the NBA practice is way less than you think. It’s this weird thing where everyone is. Everyone’s always. Because we have the science and everyone is. We’re being so careful with soft tissue injuries and, and they’re always on the road and guys are always tired and it’s hard to get sleep. Like, teams are really careful about pushing players during the season if they’re not playing games. And it’s more shoot arounds and walkthroughs and mental reps and film than it is actual practice. So this is an opportunity for DeAndre Hunter to get more integrated into the offense. What do we think about that? What do we think about the Malik Beasley path versus internal fill that role path?
Chris Fedor: Well, the Malik Beasley thing is tricky because obviously he could still face criminal charges here even though, like he isn’t the target of the investigation. He could still be charged in the investigation. And you brought up on the previous podcast, Jimmy, some of the other off the court stuff that has been unearthed because of that. So the Cavs would have to feel comfortable with Malik Beasley, the person and everything that they have heard about these allegations and stuff like that before they go down that road. But from a basketball standpoint, from an on court standpoint, there’s nobody better as a free agent right now. There’s nobody that the Cavs could go out and sign and you could say, all right, consistent regular rotational minutes, somebody who can do the stuff that, that Max did for us at both ends of the floor. I mean, if you’re looking at the available free agents at this point in time, it is a very, very thin crop. Cody Martin, don’t even get me started on Cam Reddish. I don’t even want to go down that road. Alec Burks, Seth Curry, Landry Shamut, all those guys in, in different ways can do some of the Max Drew stuff, might be losing size. Seth Curry’s not Garden threes, Landry Shamit’s not Garden threes consistently. But if you’re talking about catch and shoot threats, if you’re talking about space the floor, if you’re talking about three point shooting, all that kind of stuff. Some of those guys that I mentioned can do some of those things. Of course, not to the level that Max Strust does them. He makes $15 million. Those guys are veterans, minimum players. There’s a difference. There are levels to this sort of thing. Beyond that, I think the point that you bring up about DeAndre is interesting because I think this is something now that Kenny Atkinson really has to explore. Does he want to put DeAndre Hunter in the starting lineup or is it better to bring him off the bench? If we were having this conversation three weeks ago, that the, the, the feeling that I got in talking to people around the organization that are privy to these kinds of conversations that are going to be involved in these decisions. The preference, emphasis on preference was to bring DeAndre Hunter off the bench and, and balance out the kind of scoring that the Cavs are going to get from their starters and from their bench group. And DeAndre was going to be the sixth man. He was going to be the anchor of the second unit. He was going to be the stabilizer for the second unit. He was going to be their source of consistent scoring punch off the bench. Do they have to rethink it now? And if they do rethink it, you know, Kenny Atkinson is the kind of coach that always looks at these kinds of things as a unique opportunity and he’s going to experiment. And what is on opening night may not be the first week of November or the end of November or the beginning of December, but the one thing that you can say about DeAndre Hunter in the starting lineup versus Max Stru, there’s more size, there’s more defense, and this could allow Kenny Atkinson to see what DeAndre looks like around much of the Core 4. And what does it look like with a bigger, more defensive minded small forward in there as opposed to Max Druce? You give up a little bit in terms of the floor spacing, you give up a little bit in terms of the off ball movement. You give up a little bit in the two man game between Max Strus, Jared Allen, Max Struse, Evan Mobley. But you gain defensively and that’ll be interesting to see how much that could potentially appeal to Kenny Atkinson when making this kind of decision.
Jimmy Watkins: I think the ball movement thing, like the, the decrease in ball movement with. When you go from Max Juice to. Or from. Yeah, from max Schroes to DeAndre Hunter. And we’re already missing Darius here for some period of time at the beginning of the season. I do wonder a little bit how that would factor into Kenny’s decision tree here because we know he’s offense first, we know how much he loves the beautiful flowing offense. I still think that part of the reason, sure. I’m sure that Kenny loves the DeAndre coming off the bench and giving him the freedom to explore with the ball in his hands a little bit more in those, in those moments. But I still think part of the reason that DeAndre was more benched than starter last year is because he’s a little bit of a ball stopper. And that’s just not, that’s not the way Kenny wants to operate. He wants to see that thing pinging all over the place. So that’ll be an interesting balance. Also just overall like the max Drew’s two man game, the max Drus connector stuff where you can always keep the ball moving and he’s just always, he’s always around in the right places. Darius is the table setter. Like there’s a, there’s a real opportunity. I think Donovan showed a lot of growth late last regular season as a facilitator and like making some, some next level reads as a pastor. I think there’s more opportunity to show that growth. And Mobley, if, if not now, when, when will. If not if you’re not going to empower now ever mobile now as a playmaker, when’s this going to happen? It’s got to be. This is, I mean this is, I don’t want to call it a blessing in disguise, but forever Moby’s development like this just kind of emphasizes the point home even more. Like this guy just needs the ball because he’s one of the guys out there that can do something. I do. And maybe not as like a, this is not like as a starting replacement type deal, but I do want to go back to the point about the young guys because again, big picture, like grand scheme of things here. The Cavs need these guys to hit down the road because this roster is going to get expensive to the point where the reality is you’re just going to have to. I mean we’ve talked about it like at some point the Cavs are going to have to get rid of one of the core four members. Just find it to make the financials work because the second apron stuff is so punitive and it’s not just going to be those guys. They’re going to be ancillary role player type guys, guys you love in this locker room that might have to go and you’re the Cavs are looking at guys like Jalen Tyson, Tyrese Proctor. Hey, two years from now, can Tyrese Proctor be a legitimate third, like a third guard that we feel really good about in the NBA? Hey, Jalen Tyson, by year two and a half, year three, can you be a rotation wing in the NBA? Now would be a good time to give those guys some run. Now would be a good time to let them prove you whether they can or can’t do that. Craig Porter Jr. We need some ball handling out here. We need some playmaking out here. What do you got?
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I think all of that is valid, right? And of course we’re talking about a chaos team that is not only going to have to start the season without Max Strust, but is also likely to start the season without Darius Garland. Darius Garland, who’s already been on the court, seen on the court via social media, working out with trainers, working out with the Cavs in some capacity during their trip to Los Angeles for their pre camp voluntary workouts. What he was able to do still up in the air, not a lot, right? But from what I’ve seen it’s been standstill jumpers from beyond the arc and some movement where you can see him getting some ball handling in and getting the twitchiness and some of the stop start actions without a whole lot of lateral movement that he was kind of missing in the postseason. And I think it’s important to note that he’s still not 100%. Obviously the Cavs didn’t expect him to be at 100% until getting the training camp and even then it was up in the air with some of the questions that we’ve already posed to based on the wording of the press release. But I do think it’s important that we talk about the potential lineups without Darius Garland, without Max Drew. And of course you guys bring up DeAndre Hunter, who I’ve been kind of going back and forth on all summer, defending on his abilities are and how they match up with what the Cavs need, especially in a role with Max Druce as the starting small forward. But another player that’s come to mind has been in this role before. Obviously Max Drew again was out for the first 27 games. Dean Waite has had experience as the small forward starter for the Cleveland Cavaliers in a pinch. There’s been some stats thrown around that are very interesting to me, one being the fact that Dean Wade has a 6934 record as a starter with the Cavs since 2021, 2022. You can’t negate that. Right. Obviously there is something going.
Jimmy Watkins: Right.
Ethan Sands: Obviously the Cavs were off to a historic start, but I do think Dean Wade is a name that I’ve heard and I’m going to get into lineup specifics in a little bit. But what do you guys think of the potential for Dean Wade to again be a starter for the Cavs, and if he has earned the right to get that second chance?
Chris Fedor: I think Dean’s the kind of guy who fits well with that starting group. I think the question is, is that enough offense? Is that enough shooting? Is that enough volume three point shooting? Is he going to be willing to take some of the shots that he needs to take within the flow of the offense? And if you’re going to be missing Darius at the beginning of the season, then the Cavs probably are going to be missing Darius at the beginning of the season. In absence that, I would not be surprised if it extended into late November or maybe even early December, December, honestly, if that’s going to be the case, you have to ask yourself, you know, is that enough prolific offense? Is that too much pressure on Donovan Mitchell? Is that too much on Evan Mobley? How much do we want to put on the plate of these guys early in the regular season, understanding what the big picture is? But I believe at this moment, and look, the Cavs have to figure this stuff out over the course of the next month and they’re going to map these things out. They’re going to have conversations amongst the coaching staff, they’re going to figure out what they’re going to do with guy number 14 on the roster. But I believe that the debate is between Dean Wade and DeAndre Hunter in the starting lineup. I think Sam Merrill’s going to move into the starting lineup next to Donovan Mitchell in the backcourt. And then the question is, do you start DeAndre Hunter or do you start Dean Wade? And I think it comes down to fit. What do we need with that group? What do we need coming off the bench as well? I’d find it hard to believe that they would go with Jaylen Tyson in that starting group. So I do think the debate is between DeAndre Hunter and Dean Wade. And the one thing that you can say about Dean is that he has done it, he has done it successfully. He’s a low volume guy, so he’s not going to take touches or shots away from Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, it’s just all about fit from a stylistic standard standpoint. Either way, whether it’s Dean, whether it’s DeAndre Hunter, you’re gaining defensively and you’re getting a different look at more size in that starting group and you’re getting a look at what it looks like with a more defensive minded group as opposed to an offensive minded group. But, but I think Sam’s got to go in the starting lineup because I think they need to replicate Max’s shooting and movement and cutting as best as they possibly can. And Sam is the, the logical fit for that.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah, they certainly want to. Kenny’s always going to want one of those guys that’s running the marathon and keeping defenses engaged off the ball. So, yeah, Dean Wade is an interesting answer to this question. He’s a guy, another guy who has a huge opportunity right here. Like we’ve been talking this off season about. Dean Wade is kind of guy. Like, where does he fit in at this point? Like he’s feeling like an odd man out. Like we were talking of the summer when the Cavs were shopping, kind of shopping contracts to try to get some cap relief. It was, it was him and Isaac Coral. Right. Like he was. He was feeling like, you know, maybe his days were numbered here now. Yeah. Certainly a viable option to, to replace Max Schiz. A lot of experience playing with the Core 4 and this. It’ll be the Core 3 this time with Donovan, Jarrett and Evan. But you want to talk about a playmaking shortage, that’s just not Dean Wade’s game. No, I think that’s when we’re one again. Big picture again. It’s all about getting Donovan Mitchell to April or May and by you put Dean Wade out there. So let’s envision a starting lineup of Donovan Mitchell, Sam Merrill, D and Wade. Evan Mobley, Jared Allen. Who was fricking dribbling, right. Who was dribbling again. You would hope that there’s a lot more on Evan Mobley’s plate from a Playmate perspective. But logistically, Donovan’s just going to have to have the ball like all the time. And it’s only for a period, a short period of time. You get Darius and you have Lonzo ball. If it start, if it starts to look like it’s too much at any point, you can throw Lonzo ball in there. Like the Caps. The Caps have options. You can throw Craig Portage, whatever you need to do. There are other ball handlers, but in those lineups, which will be heavy, minute lineups, relatively speaking. I don’t the Cavs know how to manage minutes and win games, but it’s just, it can. Donovan can’t help himself sometimes. You know, sometimes he, he, he’s going to feel the need early on this season to put the cape on sometimes. And those are just early miles that you don’t want to have to put on your, on your superstar. So that, that would be my, my Dean Wade question. Now the counterpoint is what if the defense is just so freaking good that they don’t really need to run that much offense? You know, like, what if it’s all transition and running and getting rebounds and Evan Mobley is grabbing rebounds and throwing down dunks like Giannis because nobody can score on the Cavs. That’s entirely possible too. But in half court settings against set defenses, you’re asking a lot of dollar in those lineups.
Ethan Sands: A thousand percent. And I know Chris kind of alluded to his go to starting lineup, which I think is logistically probably what goes through Kenny Atkinson’s head. But as I was thinking throughout the day, I came up with three different starting lineups that I felt were viable based on everything that we’ve talked about when it comes to the defense, when it comes to the movement of the basketball, when it comes to scoring, and obviously ensuring that everyone gets the amount of rest needed and doesn’t feel like they have to put on their cape in October, November when things don’t matter. The first one, one that we talked about, Donovan, Sam, Dean, Evan and Jarrett. The second one, Donovan, Sam, DeAndre, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen or slide Lonzo Ball into the starting lineup. Donovan Mitchell plays two, either DeAndre or Dean in this lineup. I think DeAndre at the the three would make the most sense. Evan Mobley and Jared Allen rounding out that lineup. Do you hate it? What do you think? Where is your mindset when it comes to these lineups and thinking outside of what Kenny Atkinson wants when it comes to this team, what do you think they need and which makes the most sense?
Chris Fedor: I do think there’s going to be experimentation and I don’t think it’s going to be a consistent group that, that Kenny sends out there. I think he’s going to try and capitalize on what he looks at as an opportunity and I think there are going to be times that Kenny wants to see. All right, how does Jalen look around the Core 4? Is there a place for him around the core for how does he handle that kind of role? Can he blend into the fabric of a team where the ball’s not in his hands and this is maybe further down the road when Darius Garland’s healthy and ready to go? I think the reality is the situation that the Cavs are in. They have options, and it’s not a situation where they’re looking at it saying, oh, we’ve got to take the best of bad options in front of us. They’re not in that kind of situation. They have been in the past. Other organizations have been as well and still are. But for the Cavs, they have options. They have playable options internally where they don’t have to feel like they gotta scramble to make a trade or they gotta scramble to go out in free agency, or they’ve gotta worry about what the team is going to look like in the. The four or five months without Max Struse. Um, we’ve talked about some of the variations that they can go to. I like the first two best, personally. I think those are the most logical from a Cavs perspective. I think they make the most sense in terms of trying to create a balance, a scoring balance between starters and reserves. I just wonder. The thing that I keep going back to is, is the best version of DeAndre Hunter for the Cavs starting DeAndre Hunter, or six man DeAndre Hunter, and is the best version of the Cavs DeAndre Hunter in the starting group or DeAndre Hunter coming off the bench? I think if you’re talking about the potential of moving DeAndre into that starting group and playing the majority of his minutes with that starting group, now you’re asking some combination of Larry Nance Jr. Lonzo Ball, Jalen Tyson, Dean Wade, Craig Porter Jr. To provide enough scoring balance and enough scoring consistency and just enough productivity in general in the second unit. And. And I just don’t know. I don’t know if those guys that I just rattled off there can do that at the level that the Cavs would need.
Jimmy Watkins: I also think you want to be careful. I feel like I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth here, because on the one hand, I do think that DeAndre Hunter needs to feel comfortable playing with Donovan and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen and Darius eventually when the playoffs come around. On the other hand, I’m a little wary of messing with his role multiple times during a season. You know, because it’s. A season is a living organism, and if you start the season starting with DeAndre Hunter in the starting lineup, then he has to. He has to. He has to find a certain rhythm in the starting lineup. Max is going to be out a while. He will get. He will find a comfort in there, and he’s got to go back to the bench and find it again. And the. The Pieces there are a little bit different this year than they. Than they were last year. So you could. It’s just. Basketball players are creatures of habit. They like. They like routine. They like knowing what to expect. They like Chip. This is. You know guys. These rotations are. Are an exact, are basically an exact science. Like around the same time every game guys are coming in and out. That’s. That’s for a reason. These players are conditioned to, to adjust to those habits and you can, you can get lost. DeAndre Hunter is, is. Is. This is not a cop. But like look at what happens to Dean. Wait sometimes when the inconsistent. When the, when the minutes are inconsistent for him comes and goes. Not a confidence. DeAndre Henderson never have confidence. He’s a good enough player in this league where he’s always going to feel ready. But it’s. You just. You get to a point where it’s like harder to pick your spots and the Cavs are trying to run this seamless, flowy offense and it’s just a little bit harder to do that when you’re. You’re shuffling pieces around. This is mostly like a. Like I, I’m talking like there could be like mid season Malays. I think as long as this is the worst of the injury, this you also don’t want. This is not a great start from an injury luck perspective because the games haven’t even started yet. But assuming this is the worst of it, I trust that they will find their best form by the end of the regular season. But you’re just muddying the waters here in. In a way that sort of complicates it for. For a guy like DeAndre Hunter.
Chris Fedor: And look, if the Cavs still had tied to Rome, then I think this becomes an easier decision because then Kenny Atkinson and the coaching staff can just say like hey, Ty’s going to anchor in the second unit. He’s going to be our sixth man. He’s going to provide the scoring punch off the bench. He’s going to be the stage stabilizing force of that group. He can handle that responsibility. If you think back to the beginning of last season, Ty Jerome started the year and he was in double figures over and over and over and over again. And that allowed the Cavs to withstand the loss of Max Drus, who was a significant piece of this thing. He has started 121 games since. Since. Since signing with the Cavs in, in the summer of 2023. He has been a consistent starter alongside the core four. And when you lose a piece like that, you need other guys that are going to step up and fill the void. And Ty Jerome helped with that at the beginning of last season. The Cavs don’t have that anymore on the roster. So it’s, it’s not to sit here and say, well, the Cavs are doomed because they don’t have tied to Rome, but they aren’t. You can’t look at last year and say, well, The Cavs went 30 and 2 or whatever it was without Max Stru in the lineup, and they ripped off all those wins at the beginning of the season. So they’re going to be able to do that again. Um, I think they are equipped to handle this kind of loss, but I think they’re going to have to go about it a different kind of way because they don’t have somebody like Ty Jerome. And I think they have to figure out, how can we, how can we replicate the things that Ty brought to the table at the beginning of the season without Max? What’s the best way to do that? And I just keep going back to the same thing. I think it’s so splitting up DeAndre Hunter and the other key components of, of this team so they’re not all in, in the same lineup. And look, you can stagger them too. Obviously it’s a 48 minute game. You’re not going to play every single lineup the same kind of way throughout the course of those 48 minutes. But I just think when you’re looking at the current makeup of this roster and the differences from last year’s team when they had to deal with, um, with the time without Max Strus, it’s not the same kind of setup. It’s not the same kind of roster. And they’re going to have to figure out a few things that, that aren’t as simple as what Ty Jerome made it for them at the beginning of last year.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, and I think that kind of goes into the points that we’ve already made on this podcast. Right. Kind of reiterating the fact that Dean Wade kind of fills in that void. And per NBA.com as of the 2024, 2025 season, Dean Wade had a record of 23 and 7 and the team had a 9.7 net rating when he started in 30 different contests last season. Um, and obviously also the other portion of this is Chris, maybe that makes it more interesting for the Cavs when it comes to Malik Beasley, because they’re potentially willing to take a risk knowing that having either Malik or DeAndre Hunter coming off the bench and having that scoring punch would alleviate some of the issues that you mentioned, right? Having a consistent force off the bench. Obviously you don’t want to have to rely on Lonzo Ball to do that because of what his injury history is. Also, he’s not necessarily a scorer. His job is to come into the game and muck things up defensively and also help facilitate the offense with the ball in his hands and getting Donovan Mitchell off the ball, as Jimmy was mentioning earlier. So I’m not saying that you look away from the off court issues, but if there was a time for the Cavs to change their reputation of picking not only the player but the person, this might be one of them. Because again, not to say that they’re in a dire situation because they aren’t. They have the depth to be able to mix and match their lineups, but they don’t have a Ty Jerome, they don’t have a Malik Beasley, they don’t have a consistent bench offensive threat other than DeAndre Hunter. And that was going to be the case even with Max Strus in the lineup. Right. So I think it’s an interesting concept when we talk about the push and pull of the NBA, the push and pull of what organizations have to think about when it comes to a player like Malik Beasley and the current situation he’s in. But also understanding that the Cavs have somebody in house that they are, I want to say, confident in, but I’m not sure after how last season ended. Right. Last season Dean Wade was a consistent starter because Max Truss wasn’t in the lineup. And if it wasn’t Dean Wade, it was Isaac Kokoro. Isaac Kokoro’s not here anymore. So I definitely think it’s an interesting push and pull where the Cavs are at currently. And I’m curious to see what you guys think. Jimmy kind of went into it. It’s the passing, it’s the confidence of shooting. But where does Dean Wade need to gain the confidence of his team members in the organization most to be able to show that he’s earned that starting position, at least to hold it down until Max Drew comes back if the Cavs don’t decide to put DeAndre Hunter in that starting unit?
Chris Fedor: Well, first going off what you said, you know, I spent the last five, six hours or so in the aftermath of this news breaking about Max talking to as many people as I could around the organization. And just the feeling around the organization is, man, this sucks for Max because it’s another injury that he’s dealing with at the Beginning of the season, he’s not going to be able to participate in training camp, he’s not going to have preseason. He’s going to need a ramp up process. It’s hard for somebody like Max, who is a rhythmic player, to just join a team midway through the season. It helps that he has so much starting experience and playing experience around a lot of these guys. But he’s going to have to find his place in this new version of the Cavs, because every season it’s a different roster, it’s a different makeup, it’s a different looking team. There are different responsibilities and roles and all that kind of stuff. And midway through the season he’s going to have to figure out, okay, where do I slot in with this group? So the feeling around the organization is, man, this sucks for Max. He was so excited about training camp, he was busting his ass in the off season. He obviously participated in, in the team. The player led team workout that they had in la, that was completely voluntary. Um, and he talked about just a championship being on the horizon. And I also think that he was going to step into more of a leadership role this year for the Cavs. Year three, more comfortable, Year two in Kenny Atkinson system, more comfortable, all that kind of stuff. So people inside this organization are feeling for Max personally right now, but the other feeling is, we can deal with this. We’re going to be okay. The sky is not falling. This absence of Max Strus is only temporary. And for us it’s all about April, May and June. And as long as he’s the Max Struth that we need him to be, when that time comes, we’re fine. We can handle this. We have other guys that we like inside this organization. We have other guys that we think are going to be ready for a bigger opportunity and a bigger role. So I don’t sense any kind of panic from the Cavs. I don’t think this forces them now to only look at free agency through the lens of maybe Alec Burks, maybe Malik Beasley, maybe Seth Kirk, maybe Landry Shammat, and like only focus on that type of player. I still think they’re open to other possibilities in free agency. I think they’re open to other positions in free agency. I just think they have to get together as an organization and kind of map this out and figure out what is the best for them. But beyond that, the Dean Wade thing, I think that’s one of the reasons why they feel good. Like they have seen Dean in the starting lineup and they have seen him be an effective player. And I think they understand some of the flaws that Dean has shown throughout the course of his career. And some of the questions that people inside the organization have are kind of related to his confidence and the mental side of basketball for him. Now all of a sudden you have this guy who, you know, was tossed in the trade rumor machine and all these people going to espn.com and pulling up these fake trades and stuff looked at as a quote unquote expendable commodity. And, and now they might have to put him in the starting lineup. Like that’s a way to instill confidence in a guy. That’s a way to empower a player. That’s a way to reaffirm your belief in a guy. And I think that could help Dean. See, okay, I do have a place here. They do still want me here, they do still value me here. And that could lead to him playing with more confidence. That could. Emphasis on. Could lead to him playing with more freedom as well. So I think they feel good about the options that they have. They know that nobody on this roster is going to be max and, and they’re going to replicate everything that he brings to the table, but they feel good enough about their other options. And for Dean, I think it is about the confidence and I think it’s about the willingness to take the shots that are there within the flow of the offense. Because if you have this free flowing, rhythmic offense and you have a guy who’s unwilling to take the shots that are there, that are built into this offense, that’s not a good thing. That’s going to halt things and you can’t allow that to happen. So to me, those are the two things that really stand out to me. When you talk about what’s the next step for Dean? How can he prove himself to be an asset? What does he have to do to show that he should be in the starting lineup? He has to be himself, but probably a more aggressive version of himself.
Jimmy Watkins: Yeah. Just keep the record spinning. Dean. There are the moments where Dean Waits supposed to be shooting are quite obvious and it’s a real, it’s a real when. When he doesn’t take them. Right. I’m also tickled by the idea of people rushing to the trade machine to see what kind of second round pick and two million dollar cap relief they can get for Dan Wade. But here’s a thought, here’s a, here’s a pro. I guess I would consider this a pro. Dean Wade thought, what if the Cavs just accept their offense isn’t going to be the same.
Chris Fedor: Yep.
Jimmy Watkins: To start the season, you’re going to miss Darius Garland for X amount of time. Let’s, let’s say they’re conservative with that injury timeline and they want to be absolutely certain. They should be absolutely certain that Darius is 100% ready to go. Like we’ll say the tail end of the timeline that Chris proposed. November, December, the Tide Jerome point is such a key. You just don’t have the initiation that you had last year. You just don’t have the ball handling. You just don’t have the shot creation. So what do you do? You could try, you could try Malik Beasley, try to surround Donovan Mitchell with shooters and try to recreate offensive efficiency. That way you, you’d have, you’d find success doing that. The Cavs offense will still be good. I think this is an opportunity for the Caps to reclaim that defensive identity that they kinda kind of lost last year. Clearly in the Pacer series. It wasn’t the same. It’s the reason they lost. Kenny can say, well, you know, the offense fed into that particularly against the Pacers. That’s true because they’re so transition based and if you’re not scoring, they’ll make you pay for it. Whatever. But bottom point, point play, period. You didn’t defend well enough.
Chris Fedor: Yep.
Jimmy Watkins: And people, you know, you can people say that a lot of defense is, is mindset. The Cavs have an opportunity as an organization to set the tone and be like, hey, we’re missing some of our key offensive pieces. Let’s just be an awesome defense again. That, that it’s built in your roster is now slanted that way. So why not put Dean Wade out there, turn into it, turn into the JB bigger snap where JB is just on the sideline, you know, ushering everybody along with his arms. Go, go, go, go, go. That’s your offense now. And then you could run, you could flow into your random offense sets and, and stuff like that. But I, I just, I’m just. The more we talk about this, the more I’m just like we’re searching for solutions that kind of don’t exist. Again, the Cavs are going to be fine but like to get to well, the offense, the offense, you need this kind of guy. Samuel is a pretty decent max true spec simile. But Darius Garland’s not there. Ty Jerome’s not there. Lonzo Ball is great but you know Lonzo Ball fits the JB Bickerstaff third base coach offense much better that he then he fits the, the Kenny Atkinson, flowy woe offense. He’s just to get the ball and throw hit head passes guy. He’s a push the pace guy. I think that’s your answer here and I think that’s, that would be a healthy way to come out of the game. It’s also in the, in the, in a regular season where you need variety and you need like like things might be getting stale, messages might be getting stale, motivation might be getting stale because you’re just, you’re bored during the regular season. Your accomplishments are so far away. This could be a way to spice it up. Defense isn’t is the more intense side of the ball, the more energetic side of the ball. You might get better engagement out of your, out of your high end players with this sort of approach. I, I’m starting to think that way.
Chris Fedor: It also follows the theme guys of, of the Cavs offseason season. This has been a defensive based off season for the CAVS. Larry Nance Jr. Lonzo Ball. The financial decision between Ty Jerome and Sam Merrill. It’s not a coincidence that they took the guy who they didn’t view as a traffic cone on the defensive end of the floor. That played into it how playable Ty Jerome was going to be in a seven game series in the playoffs because of his defensive limitations. That played into the decision of Sam Merrill and into the decision of going up to get Lonzo Ball. So so much of what the Cavs talked about last year but you just didn’t play that way. And I even asked multiple players in multiple different ways like how are you still calling yourselves a defensive minded team? Like that is not true. There just is no evidence to that. You are the number one offense in the NBA and defense continues to slip slide the other way. But I think it was part of their, I think it was part of their evaluation process following the loss against the Indiana Pacers. Okay, what do we need to take the next step? And and I just don’t think it’s coincidence that it was a very defensive focused off season for this team. And if you want to continue on that then when you have this kind of decision that you’re going to have to make, see if you can recapture that defensive identity. See if you can go from top 10 in the NBA and defense back into the top five, maybe even push to the top three, you have the personnel to do it.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And Jimmy, that was a great way to get into that especially with who the Cavs have personnel wise. Right? Like hey Jaylon Tyson, you’ve been talking since your rookie introduction. I know I have to be better on defense to get time in the rotation. Here you go. So me you can actually do that. Show me you have the capability of doing that. Dean Wade, hey, no, you’re not good at offense, all that great. We know you’re great at defense. Here you go. Like, I just think there’s so many layers to this that. Jimmy, I was glad that you brought that up. The last thing that I’m going to say on this podcast or I’m going to bring up on this podcast is the player that we’ve kind of danced around, but haven’t because obviously the starting small forward position was always going to be a conversation, but we had Max Strus in there. The other portion of this is that Darius Garland is still not going to be there. So Sam Merrill is going to be de facto starting shooting guard. Right? That’s the idea that we’ve come up with. And this has been the summer of Sam Merrill, right, for the Cleveland Cavaliers, showcasing that they believe, as Chris, you mentioned, that he’s better suited to help the Cavs get deeper in the postseason than Ty Jerome, someone that they put it trusted in and someone who we’ve talked about in past podcasts about, hey, are they gearing him up to be the next Max Strooz? Are they gearing him up to be the next person to showcase that they have the movement, the clean cutting, the spacing, the three point shot to take on that role if Max Strust finds his way off the Cleveland Cavaliers in the next two years when his contract comes to an end? These are all questions we’ve asked. How much pressure or how much opportunity? Because pressure is opportunity. Do you think this puts on Sam Merrill to showcase why they gave him the money, why he’s capable and what he’s capable of when it comes to being a in the limelight of a past 64 win team and now trying to get back to the number one seed.
Chris Fedor: I think there are two ways to look at this, guys. I think number one, Sam can look at this as an increased opportunity, the kind of opportunity that he has been wanting in the NBA and the kind of opportunity that he really hasn’t gotten. At the same time, he has to understand there’s a reason why the Cavs committed to him. There’s a reason why the Cavs have believed in him. And if he starts getting outside himself and outside the player that he has become, that becomes a danger, that becomes a risk. So I do Think there are different elements to that that he is working on throughout the course of this off season and there are different elements to his game that he wants to be able to showcase because he thinks there’s more in there. Playmaking, dribbling, scoring inside the three point line, all that kind of stuff. He’s probably going to have more freedom to do that now. But the version of Sam Merrill that the Cavs need is the guy that they signed to a four year, $38 million contract. You know what I mean? And he just has to be himself. And, and I think it’s really, really important for guys on this team with championship aspirations to understand what their role is and be able to be effective in that role and be willing to play that particular role. So the opportunity is probably going to be a bit more. Maybe there are more shot attempts, maybe there are more touches, but he just, at the end of the day has to be Sam Merrill because that’s who the Cavs need him to be.
Jimmy Watkins: Sam Merrill has played seven career games where he’s played 30 minutes. Never played more than 20 minutes per game in a season. I mean, we’re talking about a big jump for him in terms of just run in opportunity, run. And to Chris, we were talking about DeAndre earlier. This is kind of mess with his rhythm. You’re putting him in with different groups on creatures of habit, you know, snip, snap, snip snap. You’re doing this, you’re doing that, you’re doing this, you’re doing that. Some there, there’s some. Something in there, I think that relates to Sam Merrill too.
Chris Fedor: So.
Jimmy Watkins: Okay, you’re going to have more Runway for so quite some time here. Like Max Druce is going to be out for a little while and then what happens when he comes back and you have to fit into a very concise role again. I mean, that’s. That’s Sam Rail. That’s been Sam Rail’s experience every day in the NBA. But it is, it is kind of an adjustment to, to sort of see a little bit more light and then have to pull it back. And particularly if he does it well and we don’t. I’m not gonna. Samuel hasn’t had a ton of opportunities to show us more in the NBA. Yes. I don’t know how he’s going to handle that, but that’s an interesting thing to chew on. Can you, can you put it back? You put the toothpaste back in the tube or is that going to be at the front? There’s always going to be an adjustment period when someone’s out for a while and then they have to come back and everyone else sort of has to fall back into their original place. That’s. That’s just.
Ethan Sands: I also think, to go along with your point, Jimmy, the potential for when Darius Garland comes back before Max Struse does Kenny Atkinson, keep with Sam Merrow in the starting lineup and use him as a small ball. 3. Because he falls in love with the spacing and the movement and the cutting and all that is Sam Merrill. Because although Maxtruse maybe seem more viable defensively, he’s 65 Sam Merrill 6 4. Not a huge difference there, but still, I think it’s a conversation for another day, a conversation for when that comes to light.
Jimmy Watkins: I have a slight hater prediction for Sam Merrill. Remember last year we were kind of having a, you know, we’re having fun fun with Sam Rail’s advanced defensive statistics and Sam Rail is a better defensive player than you think. Like he can hold up out there. I could see that narrative getting flipped earlier on in the season, because if the Cavs are putting Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Dean Wade, Slash, DeAndre Hunter, Donovan Mitchell around Sam, there’s only one place to go for the offense. It’s going to be. It’s, it’s. And it’s. It’s not the playoffs. People don’t, people don’t hunt quite as hard in the regular season. But like Samuels with the, with the volume of minutes and the volume of shots that goes up, volume of defensive actions defended is going to go up with it. And I think he’s a capable defender, but there you can get him. And I think there’s, there’s a. It’s. It’s a lot even. It’s like sheer, sheer. By the. By virtue of being more mentally taxed at both ends and more physically taxed at both ends, is going to be hard for Sam Rail to maintain the level of defense that he, that he usually does.
Chris Fedor: It reminds me in ways of what used to happen to Steph Curry and how people considered him a defensive liability. Because it’s like, well, we don’t want to go at Draymond. We don’t want to go at Clay, we don’t want to go at Andre Iguodela, and we don’t really want to go out kd. So, all right, Steph come into the action. Like the path of least resistance for the Cavs is going to be through Sam error. This is the way that it’s going to be. And it’s going to be up to him to hold up, and I think he knows it’s coming. I think he understands his reputation, and I think in some cases he relishes the opportunity to get those kinds of matchups so that he can prove, hey, I can stay on the floor. I’m not going to get played off the floor. I can hold my own on the defensive end of the floor. Like, yeah, you might have this, this view of me, but I can do this. Give me a chance to do this and I’ll prove to you that I can do this. So I think if, if that’s the case and if that’s the way that the Cavs go and if that’s the way that the opponent goes, and I think that they will, he’s going to love those opportunities. He’s not going to succeed all the time. There are going to be times where he loses those matchups, but he’s going to love a chance to test that narrative.
Ethan Sands: I’m excited for it either way because I think as you were getting into there, Chris, just from being in the locker room and talking to the guys and also just overhearing some of conversations that have happened in the locker room, Sam Merrill is an ish talker. He is going to talk to you if you talk to him. And that’s one of those things where if he’s not willing to back down, I think the Cavs want that, they want that kind of guy to be attacked. And it’s not saying that Darius Garland was like, okay, just attacking me because he was going to go back at him the same way. But I think Sam Merrill is more physical. I think Sam Merrill is a little bit more headstrong in those competitions when it comes to defensive assignments and being able to hold his ground. And also, as you mentioned, Chris just wanting to be in those situations and knowing that they’re coming and having the expectation that he’ll get to either prove himself right or get proven wrong based on how the season starts. So I’m excited for it, to see what happens and see how it all pans out. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Celtics. Remember the lineups that I sent out a little bit earlier for you guys to decide who you think should be in the starting lineup for the Cleveland Cavaliers come the beginning of the 2025-2026 season? Season also Send in your questions for our weekly hey Chris episode that’ll come out on Thursday, so to do so, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the cast from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through some text. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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