By **Ismail Omipidan** and **Jude Owuamanam**
**It is 60 years after the first two major coups in Nigeria. Some of those who were involved have attempted to document their own accounts of the events. But Major Juventus Ojukwu, who was never part of the plotters, but who went to prison on the grounds that he was part of the coup plotters, is yet to write his own account. He was however gracious enough to share some of the experiences in an exclusive interview with Daily Sun. In fact, he was imprisoned twice. One on account of the 1966 coup and secondly on the country’s civil war. He speaks about the circumstances leading to the dramatic events in Nigeria’s history and what lessons Nigerians can learn from them.**
Excerpts:
**We know you, but by way of introduction, tell Nigerians who you are?**
Well, my own name is Ojukwu, full name Juventus Chijioke Ojukwu, but I’m popularly called JC, JC Ojukwu. And if you want to go by titles, I say it is simply Mr. But if you want all the titles, you can call me Honorable JC Ojukun, or Retired Major JC Ojukwu, because I was a Nigerian military officer. I was a member of the Federal House of Reps. also, so I represented Idemili federal constituency twice, in 1979 and again in 1983. My hometown is Awka Etiti, not Awka, Awka Etiti, in Idemili South Federal Constituency of Anambra State. I am the third child and the second son. The first child is a daughter, she’s late now. The second is my elder brother, he’s late also. I’m the oldest in the family now and even the oldest in the extended family. My wife is late, sadly. She passed on almost eight years ago.
**Can you give us the trajectory of your service period?**
Well, I went into the military from secondary school. It’s good to have a good background from secondary school. I was there. I belong to the Cadet Corps at school. We had a Cadet Corps. We had various societies, Boy Scouts, Red Cross and so on. And we had the Cadet Corps. That was at King’s College, Lagos, my school. And I ended up being what was called the Governor General’s Cadet. There were three of us at that time. We got it by merit then. In our sets, in our group, the late Col. Bako who lost his life during, I think the coup of 83 that overthrew Shehu Shagari. Col. Bako was from Government College somewhere in the North. I can’t remember where now. The second was cadet General Ajayi, who was my classmate at King’s College. So, of the three cadets, two were from King’s College, one from the North who were Governor General’ s cadets. What that meant was we had a scholarship and we agreed that if we passed the military exam, we would join the army. So, from there I went to the military college, Kaduna, and from there to the School of Infantry in Canada, Canada Military School of Infantry and from there to Canadian Armoured Corps School. Then on commission, I came back to Nigeria and it was called Nigerian Army Recce Corps, which later became Nigerian Armoured Corps. So that was it.
**By profession, are you an engineer and what position were you holding at the outbreak of the civil war?**
No. I am a hardcore soldier, you know, but trained in armour. At the outbreak of the Civil War, I wasn’t holding any position, I was in prison, I was in detention.
**That is for participating or in connection with the 1966 coup?**
That’s a better word, not for participating, but for a connection to the January, 1966 Coup.
**What exactly happened that led to your involvement and eventual imprisonment in connection with that episode?**
I will not go into details about that because the coup took place on January 15th, as you know. I was serving in Kaduna but I was arbitrarily arrested by the then General Officer Commanding Nigerian Army, Gen. Aguiyi Ironsi. They went to various units and picked certain officers but what was the reason, I don’t know. So, in my unit, I was one of those picked, some taken from artillery, some from 3rd Battalion. No, nobody from 3rd Battalion because their commanding officer refused. I don’t remember his name, but if I do, I’ll tell you. But from my unit, from artillery, from signals, from engineers. So, they picked a number of officers. I say arbitrarily because there was no violence or anything in Kaduna among the military.
**And there was nothing connecting them with the revolution and that’s why you call it arbitrariness. Is that correct?**
Yes, we don’t know, like those of us who were hounded into detention, who couldn’t say what we did or our involvement or part of the plan or whatever.
**Can you hazard a guess why they arrested you?**
You call it hazarding a guess, I don’t know because I kept saying that to them -the Special Branch, which is now the DSS during the interviews. I told them everybody in Kadena took part in the coup because nobody opposed it. So why did they pick some they knew, so I don’t want to hazard any guesses.
**But were you privy to the coup?**
No.
**But you said everybody in Kaduna did not oppose the coup. Were you in Kaduna then?**
I was in Kaduna. My unit was in Kaduna
**And you said everybody participated.**
Everybody who was in the military in Kaduna by implication participated in the coup because nobody opposed it.
**That is, those who knew about the coup participated?**
Not those who knew and those who did not know. No, not at all because that morning, everybody in uniform came out because there was smoke, for instance, in Kaduna South and so on. So, all the unit commanders called out their troops. That’s what I mean.
**In the period leading to the coup there were a lot of things that those who planned the coup complained about. In Ben Gbulie’s book, he talked about disenchantment with the political class, corruption, nepotism, killings here and there. With the conditions then and what would say is the correlation to warrant any insurrection now?**
I’ve never thought there should be any correlation, any reason for any insurrection. I’m opposed to insurrections. So, when we talk of insurgencies and revolution and so on, they don’t solve problems.
**So, in essence, what you are saying is that the 1966 coup did not solve any problem?**
Well, I wouldn’t say that it solved any problem, and that’s just an opinion.
**So that means those things you complained of then are still prevalent, because nothing seems to have changed. Now we are witnessing banditry, assassinations, clashes, here and there, nepotism and all that. And these were outlined in Ben Gbulie’s book why the five majors struck. So that means that the coup did not solve any problem at all?**
No, it cannot be said to have solved the problem. The situation now is much worse than then. But those who had that at the back of their mind, they meant well. They meant well so they wouldn’t know that the future would be bleak and would be worse.
**Many people have termed that coup an Igbo coup because most of the officers that participated were Igbo. So, give us a brief background of how it came about and whether it was an Igbo coup that led to the counter coup of July 29?**
I think my friend and a colleague, General Babangida, answered that question in his book. So, I won’t go further to say whether it was Igbo coup or not Igbo coup. And perhaps they’ll have reasons for saying it was Igbo coup or not Igbo coup. I don’t want to go into that.
**By your own reasoning, you said those who planned it were very altruistic, that they meant well for this country. So that means no section of the country should be blamed for the coup?**
I don’t think any section should be blamed. You may blame those who did it for one action or inaction of theirs, but you don’t blame a whole people. You don’t hold a whole people responsible for the actions of one or two persons. That should be made quite clear. So even if you call it Igbo coup or not Igbo coup, are you going to blame all Igbo people? So, designating it ethnic this or that, doesn’t help us.
**There are certain officers that were killed during the 1960 coup. We talk about Maimalari, Col. James Pam and so on and they were mostly from the North. Can you give us a small narrative of the circumstances in which they were killed?**
I made this quite clear to some friends, including one I will call my recent friend, Professor Ishaya Pam, that I’ve not said what I don’t know anything about. We knew Maimalari was killed. We knew Col. Pam was killed. So, details of their death, I can’t say.
**During your service period, did you at any point in time serve outside the Kaduna?**
Yes.
**Did you serve in Tivland?**
Yes, I did.
**Were you there during the Tiv riots?**
Yes.
**Just give us a brief account of what happened?**
Well briefly, for a long time there had been a crisis in Tivland resulting in police and army interventions. The time I served, we took over from, third battalion, Nigerian Army which was then commanded by the late Col. Pam, a fine gentleman of blessed memory. Our unit, Nigerian Army Recce Squadron took over from the third battalion. I was a very young officer then. So that was it and our duty was mostly internal security, restoring peace, aside the mobile force of Nigerian Police which had been accused of some excesses against the Tiv people, we were not, my unit, we were not active, we didn’t have any tensions or violence, no violent-based actions with the Tiv people and so on. For instance, I was in the office most of the time. I served as an adjutant to the late General Hassan Katsina. We were sending reports back to Kaduna from Gboko. That was in 1964, 1965, the following years, from Makurdi to Kaduna. Our headquarters was in Gboko, they lived in Makurdi.
**Okay, so the people who actually did the massacre in Tivland were the police?**
I won’t say they did the massacre; I like to use my words. but they were a bit brutal. They were accused of being brutal.
**So, the role of the army then was just to keep the peace?**
I can tell you in good authority. I know. The Tiv people will never ever, to the best of my knowledge, accuse the army of harming them or hurting them. But you know, recent politicians, they now have a way of twisting history.
**Recent history points out to the fact that the army, then commanded by Colonel Pam was responsible for the killings in Tivland. Is this the case, since you are actively involved?**
From what I know, from what I knew, shortly before I went to Makurdi, before I took over, and what I knew then, I think that statement was grossly uncharitable, unfair and inaccurate both to the army and to the late Colonel Pam. I will tell you, that Col. Pam could never have, nothing could ever have made him to do that, he didn’t do any such thing.
**Were you at the Oputa Panel. What did you present to the panel?**
No, I was just one of the visitors.
**So, you didn’t make any presentation?**
I didn’t present anything to the Oputa Panel and didn’t appear before it to give evidence because I knew nothing.
**Did you meet both the victims and the perpetrators of that coup like Mrs Pam?**
This happened more than 15 years ago. I met her, I saw her. I saw her on two occasions. First was in Abuja. I didn’t meet her closely. But she was a member of the Oputa Panel. But in Enugu here, when they came to Enugu, alongside some of my colleagues, we had a chat with her. A fine woman, great woman. A woman with a Godly heart that the men in Nigeria should emulate.
**You know, her husband was killed when she was young and when she had little, little kids to take care of and naturally she would have been hurt by that event. In your interaction with her, what did you come out of that interaction?**
Well, I’ll answer your question retrogressively, because I answered it even before your question, you know. As I said, she was a great woman, a woman of good heart, a Godly woman. And in my short interaction with her, it’s very rare to see a widow, a widow being so good and nice and lacking bitterness. She was exuding love and forgiveness. Maybe we’ll have to learn that, you know. Somebody made a remark about her husband. She said, ‘no, no, no, that is gone, that is past. You know, don’t talk about that.’ She was very nice. Forgiveness, that’s what this country needs. We don’t have it. We heighten hatred, bitterness, all over, my people and other people, bitterness, anger. It will not help us; it will not go anywhere. Our people, Nigerians, are Godless. I’m talking in general terms. I’m not saying we are devils, but we still don’t fear God. You see, I don’t separate my religion from politics or other things. I preach in season and out of season. We should remember God in everything we do. It’s not enough to go to a mosque on Friday and shout Allah Akbar or go to c hurch on Sunday and say Jesus is Lord. And we come out and do different things. Mrs. Pam was a wonderful woman. It’s an example of what many widows and people who are bereaved should learn.
**At some point you were released from detention. What were the circumstances of your release?**
I wouldn’t know the circumstances leading to it. All I can tell you was when we were released. Circumstances leading to our release were the unstopped deaths by General Gowon, who was then the head of state, I don’t really know. It was in October 1974, by then we had been dispatched to various prisons. All along we used to be herded into the same prison, but later they dispatched us from 1973 to various prisons, one prison per person. So, during his October broadcast, he announced that those in prison were to be released. So, we’re happy. But then it took another month or so, early November before we were released. And interestingly, my people, Igbo people should take note of this. Interestingly, some non-Igbo were asking for our release. One of those who championed it were people like the late Tai Solarin. I don’t want to talk of some recent case of some people asking for somebody who committed a crime to be released. Anyway, we were released. I don’t know the circumstances that led to this. The other aspect between me and Gowon when I was in prison, again the details are left for my book.
**So how many years did you stay in prison?**
All together, six years and one month. In the first instance, we spent one year and three months that was January 1966 to March 67 when we were released by Ojukwu but those of us who went to prisons in the East here, there was crisis already between Ojukwu and Gowon, so Ojukwu will naturally release us and we fought on the side of Biafra. After the war, Gowon gathered all those of us that were released and took us to prison. He said, we are unlawfully released, back to prison for another four years and ten months. So, in the whole we spent six years and one month in prison.
**The Nigerian civil war was meant to correct some imbalance in the Nigerian federation which later snowballed into a civil war. Can we say that that civil war was justified in any way?**
No war is ever justified. No war is ever justified, including the one Trump wants to fight all over the place. No war is ever justified, you know, that’s a point I had to make. If it’s in a debate or a colloquium, I’ll explain why I’m saying so, but in a nutshell, no war is ever justified. Now, some of the problems have not been rectified, they are getting worse. For instance, the government created 12 states. From 12 states now we have gone to 36 states. So, the proliferation or balkanisation doesn’t solve problems. They are talking of lessons of history, but it appears we have learnt nothing. What I want to say quickly, for the record, is that many of the actors of that period, people always forget their age bracket. All of them were very young people. I was under 30, you know, when I went to prison. Many of them were conditioned within their age bracket, and people tend to forget that. No matter, like some of the agitators I see these days, no matter how smart or intelligent or intellectually motivated somebody is, age plays a part. And people must learn to respect elders, even though some of the elders appear foolish. I read somewhere that Nnamdi Azikiwe was advising Ojukwu on certain issues. They were very young men, in their thirties. But they were boisterous and enthusiastic as well. I’m not saying young people are not sensible, but some of this boisterousness, and so on, might be taken into account. But Nigerians must learn to live together. It’s important.
**What of Nnamdi Azikiwe? Because he was accused of abandoning Bifra at a point in time. What impression do you have of him?**
You know journalists are very cunning. I didn’t expect this interview to go to the all-encompassing. Those who accused him were following popular opinion. They didn’t know all the facts. But what of the good things he did, like getting recognition for Biafra, they don’t talk about it. Nnamdi Azikiwe was able to get some countries to recognise Biafra. But some of the advice he gave in private, they will not talk about it. I’m not used to abusing people, condemning people. Our people will learn history. If they don’t see any to read, they should come to people who are older than them and ask questions. People like us.
**What lessons have we learnt from that 1966 coup and how can we use our lesson for nation building?**
There are many lessons to be learnt if people are prepared to learn. One of them is that violence doesn’t solve problems. Violence doesn’t solve problems. That’s number one. Number two, vengeance worsens problems. If you start with violence, then the victims want to avenge. It makes matters worse. And for those of us who like to listen to what God says, vengeance is mine. Leave vengeance to God, He knows how to do it. The other lesson is that we can only benefit from harmony, harmonious living together. It’s cyclic, vengeance goes round and it never ends. Sons ask their father what happened. Grandsons will ask their fathers what happened. And it goes on and on. I want Nigerians to take note of this. In Rwanda, there was genocide of enormous proportions. But Rwanda today is an example of harmonious living together. There’s a programme on this EWTN network, they call it ‘I Forgive.’ The anchor person is from Rwanda. A lady whose parents and siblings were killed in her presence when she was about five years old. A foreigner, an American took her to US and she studied in American University and so forth. What she preached is forgiveness. And I’ve met some people who have visited Rwanda. Forgiveness, reconciliation is the key. But here in Nigeria, people are always saying, he did this to me, he did that to me, I’m going to do this to him, I’m going to do that to him. You’re not a true Nigerian if you preach vengeance. If you preach vengeance, you won’t take us anywhere.
**I read Ben Gbulie’s book and your name featured very prominently. By mentioning your name several times, that means you must have played a big role in his life or in his military career. Can you share this part with us?**
I wish he was alive for you to ask him why. He died, I think, about two years ago. We were very close. We were very close friends, you know? He was my senior in the army. When he was a captain, I was only and I think, even before he died, I tried to encourage him to stop saying it, that he kept regretting waking me up on the morning of the coup. And he kept saying, JC, it was my action that made you spend years in detention. We are close friends. In fact, I was the best man at his wedding. And his mates, made a joke of his eye, and he took a second lieutenant to be your best man, you know? So, we are very close friends. We got on well.
**Were you able to extract from him some of the reasons why he took part in the coup and some of the regrets he had about it?**
Not really. You see we didn’t like discussing it, especially those of us who were in detention even in detention we didn’t like discussing the matter because, especially as the action took place largely in Kaduna and Lagos and there was more violence in Lagos. And for some reason, it was almost an unwritten agreement, we didn’t like discussing even though we were in prison together, but after some time we were dispersed. But I can say this. In short, the answer is that we didn’t discuss much of it. Sometimes we overheard one another blaming somebody for this or for that. Spilling blood is a terrible thing. And nobody, unless somebody who lives, who is an attendant of the Devil’s Palace, and will tell you that there’s nothing wrong in it. But we didn’t really discuss. He wasn’t one of the planners. He wasn’t one of the five majors. To what extent he was involved, I really didn’t know.
I know the family is there, he might have some people later maybe. But Ben Gbulie was somebody who believed in what he believed in. He had strong opinions about certain matters. He was a good man.
In his book, in fact, he said that it was Lieutenant Nwobosi whom he met at the Kaduna railway station that first of all co-opted him into the plot. He said he met Nwobosi at the railway station and they were complaining about the situation in Nigeria.
You know what is most interesting about coups and the plots, and so on and so forth, is that the veteran usually keeps it close to their hearts. As close as I was to Ben Gbulie, he didn’t mention it to me. And it was safe for him, safe for me. Because if he did, I wouldn’t be talking boldly as I’m talking now. My conscience wouldn’t allow me to say that I didn’t know. But he knew that I knew nothing about it.
**Let’s dive into your political period. What made you go into politics after your military career?**
Some of the things you’re asking me, you are pre-empting me because I’m writing something. So, I won’t give you full details, unless you pay me. Because here is my son, they’ve been encouraging me and I have a deadline when I think I should complete it. God giving me a life. He will give me life. But I will answer you briefly. My motivation, like I said, because it’s part of what I’ve written. I will give you briefly, is my background. First of all, I come from a rather religious background. My father, my late father, was a pioneer Christian. You can see the picture of Cardinal Arinze in the back. That was when he was 50 years of being a bishop. He was a friend of my father or my father was a friend of his. So, my father brought us up in a strong Christian tradition, not just putting the bible but living well. Secondly, I had the good fortune of having attended good schools. My primary school was in what is now Delta State, that was in Warri. Warri Delta province. I attended a good primary school there but above all I attended King’s College, Lagos. if I may boast, the best secondary school in Nigeria is King’s College, Lagos and there we are prepared for leadership, not leadership in the political sense. We always thought that there’s a line in our actions. When the trumpet is sounded all must answer here and when you are called you must answer and be counted. So, at King’s College we had political orientation, politicisation of some sort by the student council. The equivalent in university campus is now a student union. I don’t know the situation now, but then, the chairman or the president of that council was the principal of the school, the speaker of that council was a maths teacher in the school and each class has representatives and I had the honour of representing my class from Form one to five for five years. We were taught civics, which I’m not sure is being taught these days in school; history I learnt has been jettisoned and I don’t know if it had been brought back. So the answer to this question is that unknown to me, being anchored in my psyche I was being prepared for things political, not in the sense of partisan politics but in terms of service so that was what pushed me on. So, when I left the army, at the end of my imprisonment, in detention, and the army handed me back to the civilian group, after Obasanjo, Obasanjo took me back from Murtala, I will cut it very short otherwise I spoil my story, I wasn’t interested in politics but I had the same motivation to serve, so I joined the Nigerian People’s Party, which many people in this area joined, and so on and so forth, and people in my local government, invited me to contest elections, I did not ask for, I didn’t contest for primary, unlike now people bribe, and so on. I was here in Enugu, and I was called to Ogidi, they said, JC you go to the House for us, I said I’m not going. They said you must go. One of the elders told me, you don’t say no to your people. Even there were people who wanted to be, who wanted the primary, so that was how, and I came back to Enugu here, and I contacted my parish priest, a good man. I said, ‘Father, I hear politics is dirty.’ He said, ‘son,’ he used to call me son, ‘son, it’s not dirty, people make it dirty, go and show them a Christian can be a politician. You should go. Your people have called you to go, so you should go.’ In 1979, it’s on record, I had the largest number of votes from any federal constituency in the old Anambra, comprising Ebonyi, Enugu and present-day Anambra, for House of Reps. I don’t want to tell you maybe what I did for my constituents and so on and so forth.
**What would you advise Nigerians on the way forward, especially as a politician and as a retired military officer who has seen it all in the formation of Nigeria as a nation state?**
Well, my advice is to not be pessimistic. My advice is to see us as Nigerians. God has put us on this geographical space called Nigeria. Nobody chose where to be born, or when to be born, or how to be born, not even when to die. So, my advice is, we should go back to our roots. Our root is divine, from God. Love one another as I have loved you. That’s what Jesus Christ said. Two important commandments, love of God and love of neighbour. I’m not ashamed of preaching, you know. That is my advice. They will say, it’s difficult now, but God knows it’s difficult before he told us to do it. He gives us the Grace to do it. If you are willing, and that you give me the Grace, the energy to do it. My advice is, try to show love, and eschew bitterness. There’s too much hatred, too much bitterness, even among families. We, as a people, everyone is always accusing the other. Nobody admits his own wrong. Let us admit our own wrong. Learn from Rwanda and its people, the Hutus and the Tutsis. who are forgiving. My first advice, let us learn to forgive. We must learn to forgive for the sake of our children and accommodate each other. This is the way I look at it. So, my advice is, let us know we are one people under God. It’s important. Americans, whatever they do, they say they are people under God. Trump, with all his rascality, said Americans are people under God. If we don’t do this, we won’t go anywhere. In fact, the Nigerian situation will get worse until it gets better. Finally, we must emulate people like the late Mrs. Elizabeth Pam. We may not want to talk about our experiences, because some are bitter, but we must love each other.